German Ex-E-Cat Licensee Speaks [Updated — More Translation]

I am not able to understand the German here unfortunately, but a video of former German E-Cat Licensee Hartmut Dobler, CEO of E-Cat Deutschland GmbH speaking about how he lost his licensee status.

I am relying on a couple of posts here from German speaking ECW readers who have commented here today for my interpretation. (Thanks to both!)

Matt wrote:

“Just found this: At 4:40 is an interview with the former German licensee of the E-Cat. He says he had a two digit number of customers, who were eager to buy an E-Cat before Rossi backed up because Industrial Heat forbade to sell the 1 MW plant. He got a compensation.”

Pelgrim108 wrote:

“… and we had progressed to the point where we, in a power station that was shutdown for revision, wanted to look where the devices could be build in, in the hot steam conduits and sofort.
Rossi was at that time still enthusiastic.
The flight was booked, the hotel was booked, the shuttle was booked.
Everything was prepared for, he just had to make one more telephone call in the USA, and then came the “no go”.
He was blocked from going. It was very clear that he was ordered not to go.
The meeting didnt happen.

UPDATE: Thanks to Gerrit for some more details from Harmut Dobler’s talk:

Gerrit wrote:

4:41 -” We had the opportunity twice to look at the ecat and take measurements. Based on that, we decided to enter the sales and acquisition of companies and customers that where interested. We collected the interested parties and it was important to start with the first ecat.

5:16 Autumn last year there was a dramatic change. Rossi had sold all his pate nts to a party in the USA and was no longer in charge of his decisions and had to align constantly.”

The interview concludes with Doblre saying 6:26: “I assume there is a large national interest behind it” – “how do you mean” – “I don’t want to comment, national interests are multi layered”

The video of Dobler’s talk is below (in German)

Freie Energie – Vor Ort bei den Erfindern (Clip) from Exopolitik Deutschland on Vimeo


  • Omega Z

    Thought I’d throw this in as some may not be aware..
    They only had the License for the the Low Temp E-cat.
    The Hot-Cat would have required an additional license of which would be totally up to IH.

  • Omega Z

    Everyone in on the scam can expect to gross a cool $2.98.
    Less postage or money transfer fee charged by the bank. 🙂

  • Omega Z

    Your Opinion of him is similar to those here when 1st becoming aware of him. But when you need some cash flow to keep going, Bad characters are begrudgingly accepted.

  • Ophelia Rump

    It is not risky at all. It is a certainty you will have earthquakes and flaming water.

  • jousterusa

    What is really strange about that “military” purchase is that is was paid for with taxpayer dollars, and the technology – all except for its catalyst – is obviously not a military secret. Ordinarily, that would make it public information, but apparently Rossi was told not to disclose the branch of the military iot was sold to, so there’s no way to access information through the FOIA. When people won’t talk, you have to suspect they are hiding something very dangerous to their interests. While we have heard of Tom Darden and suspect IHC is in Raleigh, NC, is it even possible to know or learn anything about it? What its history is, if any? What iits sales are? How many employees it has? What its fdacility is like? What its Website is? We have accepted the complete lack of information about a world-changing invention with almost no complaints. Why is that?

    • US_Citizen71

      How much did we know about the iPhone or the iPod before their launch? Just because a company keeps information about an upcoming product secret doesn’t mean that there is some type intrigue going on. As for FOIA requests try getting one filled for the US Navy’s training film on synthetic line snapback from the 1970’s that showed a junior officer getting his legs removed by a parted mooring line during docking procedures. Tens of thousands of recruits watched it during basic training including myself and are willing to talk about it but the Navy still pretends it never existed. The MythBusters tried several times according to what they said on their show and were unable to get the Navy to even admit it was ever made. The military will only admit to what it wants to unless you almost all of the information to corroborate what you are searching for. No one remember the MILSPEC ID# for the film so information on it will never be found. It is not in the least bit shocking that they will not acknowledge buying something like a 1MW plant from Rossi.

    • Andy Kumar

      “We have accepted the complete lack of information about a world-changing invention of enormous public interest with almost no complaints. Why is that?”
      That is exactly what I was trying to say. It is one thing to have faith. Are we supposed to follow the *presumed group line* like a flock of sheep.
      US_Citizen71, iPhone, iPod like devices were known to be well within technical capabilities. e-cat is way beyond imaginable.

      • Ophelia Rump

        We grip about it daily here. Would you start an internet campaign?
        The mill of the gods grinds slow but incredibly fine.

  • jousterusa

    I feel like IHC LLC is not on the up-and-up when it is turning down eager customers with the money to buy the Hot Cat. Something is wrong, and we ought to try to get some cogent explanations from Industrial Heat. For all we know, they may be trying not to promote but to securely suppress this technology. Much stranger things have happened.

    • Omega Z

      As I’ve said before. Industrial Heat is a front company to mask bigger players. This is so that should it leak out, OOPS It did, Didn’t it.
      Who do we watch? Industrial Heat. Who else is involved? Not a clue. All we can do is mindlessly speculate.

      IMO, Darden is a hands on Guy. Can be Comfortable in blue jeans. But overall, He is a businessman. He pays others to do the work as a rule. He’s located in the Triangle with tons of high powered connections. Big players with manufacturing capacity & large research Labs with budgets to match. Check out Cherokee connections. A who’s who

      What did Rossi say. Something to the effect that they had everything Imaginable for his work, but if not, they could quickly obtain it. usually in hours. Corporations abilities to obtain things has a lot to do with size. If you can take him at his word, this would indicate 1 of about a dozen Corporations most of whom have facilities within the Triangle zone. I wouldn’t be surprised if multiple Big players are involved.
      Here is a Clue: “I don’t want to comment, national interests are multi layered”
      Does this sound like “Industrial Heat” all alone?
      Located in a cheap Office suite in the upstairs of a small building.

      Contrary to what many say, Secrets aren’t that hard to keep. Many still have some honor. And for those who don’t, They don’t want to get shut out in the cold unknowing world with the rest of us.

      Note: Everyday you read according to an unnamed source(Because their not authorized to speak) Yeah Right. Their paid to be unnamed sources. Many times it’s a so called trial balloon to see the reactions before someone goes public. Or Not according to public reaction.

  • malkom700

    In fact you are right but the Germans are currently not using those deposits. It also seems that the Germans behaved extremely proficiently in this case.

  • Curbina

    So, many suspicions are confirmed here, and the idea of multilayered national interests can fuel a lot of speculation, that perhaps is not so speculative after all.

    • Ophelia Rump

      “multilayered national interests” certainly sounds intriguing.

      Sadly I have no idea what that means. I have to ask myself, why would a German plumbing executive know what that means either?

      • Omega Z

        That’s the story they filled his memory with.
        Now, Look at this little flashy thingy… 🙂

  • Fortyniner


  • Fortyniner

    If the latter, then major steps towards monopolisation and govt./corporate control have already taken place.

  • You should not overstate Mr. Dobler. He’s just a mediocrity in germany. He’s a little plumbing and heating installer, like there are thousands also in other countries, who hoped to make a big deal.

    Do not interpret to much into this!

    • Gerrit

      I agree fully with barty.
      I wouldn’t think too much about the statement from Dobler about “national interests”.

  • malkom700

    Germany has no natural gas deposits, therefore, not surprising that the German company was prepared to act quickly.

  • Julian Becker

    Btw. Since I found out that Darden was meeting with the Chinese the icebank article has been removed. Actually website seemed to be down for a while. Looks like I.H. is quite strict regarding leaking of infos and who has access to the Ecat…

  • Julian Becker

    Someone should contact the guy (Mr. Dobler) and ask a bit more details. He is not bound by any NDA

    • pg

      He seems to be definitely under nda

  • Pg

    It s revealing. Never seen that kind of talk from a booted ex partner.
    They may have been given a fair payout and why not some stock options ( best part of the deal I would say).

  • robyn wyrick

    For some time before the announcement of someone having bought his IP, Rossi had stated that he had buyers in place, and this seems to confirm that.

    It just seems to be another instance of Rossi Says – being confirmed.

    • Owen Geiger

      I up voted this comment because it’s like an arrow or sword piercing the trolls.

    • Billy Jackson

      its one of the reasons that i find Rossi credible. at no point have i found that he has blatantly lied. stretched the truth or or WE confused something due to his broken English. but i have not found an out right lie yet. we dont always get the answers when we ask but they do eventually come either via reported truth from the media or people who are dealing with him speaking out later.

  • Frank McD

    Most probably still has some sort of interest (% of future sales etc.) in the e-cat that he’s not revealing and so speculating on ‘national interest’, which invokes the possibility of lucrative military sales, would be a good forward looking statement.

    • LCD

      Just gonna point out that military sales would be nothing compared to commercial sales, but the size of the initial contract could be quite large and full of guarantees.

    • Omega Z

      If you have followed from the Beginning, Military sales were always a Big component in the E-cat story. Starting with Rossi’s AmpEnerco dealings.

      Always included North America, South America & the U.S. Military…

  • Hector McNuget

    Is masterfull displayment of business-man savvy. You want ecat? Sign here – oh, you can’t have it. Soon every businessmen wants ecat, and since can’t have, price makes climb. Oldest trickster in my book. Supply & command, my friend.

    • Fortyniner

      I think you may mean ‘supply and demand’. Demand will be virtually infinite without the need for any of the tricks you suggest – for whatever reason.

    • pg

      I believe you are thinking about OPEC…

    • Ophelia Rump

      Yes because what every con artist wants most is to not take money from gullible people.

      The old double reverse scam. It is so much more probable, and satisfying than going with a better offer.

  • fritz194

    I think its quite simple…
    Rossi wanted to sell some MW units to finance his company.
    There was not too much progress and he boarded IH.
    So there was no further need to sell MW units –
    Having some units in service and optimize the setup works better if the installations are close to the development.
    Duplicating MW units in that actual stage would slow down research and block capacity for work on hot cat…
    Maybe it helps Dobler to think there are national interests involved – and that his passion towards selling that technology failed because of “higher order”.
    The truth is that the licensee concept failed – and that somebody else is in charge to bring that further.
    Rossi obviously signed a martial NDA and is very very careful on that issue – if positiv or negative ;-))) This might look like a conspiracy to Dobler – but even if there is a national interest – nobody would tell him because of martial NDAs – so it´s just his opinion.

    • Fortyniner

      Agreed. Once IH became involved there was no further need for agents. IH will make sure that the 1st generation product sells itself, and ‘agents’ would have been just an unnecessary layer that would have eaten into profits and diffused control of the customer base.

      In any case the technology changed fundamentally once IH’s money allowed multi-path R&D and the device the ‘agents’ signed up for was immediately rendered obsolete and would never have been commercially produced.

      • Omega Z

        Ahh but for the fact other licensees are still in play. Possibly he didn’t measure up to their business standards & pushed/bought him out.

        OR, Siemens wants Germany all for itself??? Maybe.

  • Paul

    Whatever the reasons, it does not look a professional behaviour from both Rossi and IH.

    • bachcole

      I just see business. I get two job offers. I take the one that looks best for me; at that point, I am not a charity operation; it’s just business.

      • Paul

        Not exactly, according to the German licensee Rossi and IH did not honour their contract. It’s just a legal matter.

        • Fortyniner

          Business decisions of that nature take the possible costs of legal action into account, but legality doesn’t drive them.

          • Paul

            I understand, but probably you agree that it is not a good advertising for a company making of ethic its flag and going to sell a product not yet accepted bt the mainstream scientific community…

            • Fortyniner

              Possibly not, but IH only wanted Rossi and the IP, so his baggage would have been shed as swiftly as possible. Perhaps the ex-agents did reasonably well from the termination deal.

        • pg

          IH would have given the license agreement to the legal team, which advised that with no ready product and no strong patents there was not much the licensees could do. Happens every day in any industry

        • US_Citizen71

          I’m not sure you can say that the contract was not honored unless you read it. Most contracts for franchising have a clause that allows the parent company to buy out the franchisee for numerous different reasons and sometimes for no reason at all. If Rossi used a lawyer worth anywhere what he paid them, there was a built in out for Rossi to exercise.

        • hempenearth

          Item 7.6 of the contract said the licensor and licensee could negotiate and vary the price. That puts the licensor in the driving position – if agreement couldn’t be reached the best option was for IH to buy out the licensee. I guess the same thing has happened with Roger Greene.

    • Warthog

      Seems very professional to me. IH re-purchased the purchased rights from the licensee and paid a premium to do so. How is that action unprofessional???

      • Paul

        Because their license has a value which is – at least! – ten times greater.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          But the licensees were not forced into buyout.

          • Paul

            Ask them if they were or not. If, for example, I cancel a license, I force a licensee to accept a 1:1 refund or to loose all his money. Is this ethic?

        • Warthog

          Neither you, I, nor anyone else knows what the value of said license might be. If you believe the skeptopaths, it is zero. We only know that IH made an offer, the German licensee accepted it, and that the sum was greater than the licensee had originally put up.

  • LuFong

    To me the simplest explanation (others are certainly possible) is that IH did not feel that the E-Cat was ready for commercial sales in these cases and not wanting to take the financial/operational risk, they backed out. Why they felt this way is unclear but it could any number of reasons with US Federal government opposition and other conspiracy type explanations being very low on the list, IMO. Remember that the E-Cat is still unproven and evidently still changing technology and any shortcomings could have significant financial consequences for the new owners (IH) of this technology.

  • steve high

    Well at least we can have the confidence to say that a German industrialist had a first hand look at Rossi’s technology and was prepared to commence making electricity with it

    • Omega Z

      I think this was the LT E-cat. Not the Hot Cat.

  • He also says in the video, that he and his interested partners already started to plan to rebuild an old abandoned coal plant in germany, for the use with by the e-cat generated steam.

  • Bernie777

    Does this report mean that IH is a front for a US Federal government operation?

    • That’s just an oppinion of Dobler.

    • Omega Z

      Likely a Front for Big Corporations.

  • Gerrit

    The interview concludes with Dobler saying 6:26: “I assume there is a large national interest behind it” – “how do you mean?” – “I don’t want to comment, national interests are multi layered”

    • Billy Jackson

      its a huge reminder to us. despite the fact that we visit this page regularly and speak for or against the e-cat. their is a lot going on behind the scenes that never make it online for us to discuss.

    • georgehants

      Establishment science has found that they do not employ a single scientist capable of understanding or working on Cold Fusion so they are relying on IH to get their information.

      • Omega Z

        They have a Diabolical Plan George.
        By the Hot-Cat,
        Install it in the ITER and say We did it.
        We have Hot Fusion.

  • Gerrit

    4:41 – We had the opportunity twice to look at the ecat and take measurements. Based on that, we decided to enter the sales and acquisition of companies and customers that where interested. We collected the interested parties and it was important to start with the first ecat.

    5:16 Autumn last year there was a dramatic change. Rossi had sold all his patents to a party in the USA and was no longer in charge of his decisions and had to align constantly.

    … (followed by Pelgrim108 translation from above)

    • Billy Jackson

      Thanks for the translation. This is not surprising to me at all. at some point i expect Rossi to be muzzled on his public speaking even on his journal at least about the e-cat. now that its a corporation that owns it i suspect that they will sooner or later clamp down on the outflow of information until they are ready to release it in a manner they see fit.

  • Gerard McEk

    When I hear this this, then I assume Rossi used the Germans to force a decision from IH to go forward with him under the conditions he liked, but were maybe still under discussion.

  • bachcole

    No surprise here. Someone beat the Germans to the punch. It is called business, and sometimes it can be ruthless. I bet Darden and Vaughn were very nervous before this their successful outcome. Frankly, I don’t know diddly about the Germans, but I doubt if Rossi could have done better than I.H.

    • Ophelia Rump

      The perfection of the fit and the scale of it’s potential, reveal the subtle scope and global breadth of the powers that made this match possible.

      You would need a fantastically skilled actuary to do the statistical calculation on the probability of Tom Darden becoming aware of the existence of Rossi and his work. I would guess the figure approximates zero, unless some great eye in the sky played matchmaker.