Rossi on ‘Taking Advantage’ of and ‘Learning’ from Skepticism

There can be no denying that since Andrea Rossi first introduced the E-Cat to the world in 2011 there has been a huge amount of skepticism expressed about his work and himself personally. Skepticism is not at all uncommon in the scientific world, especially when some new discovery is claimed — but in Rossi’s case there seems to have been an unusual amount of criticism and ridicule generated — some of it very harsh and personal.

Yesterday on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, Rossi wrote a long post in response to a commenter who asked how he responded to different charges. In it he included some interesting comments on how he deals with sketpicism, and how he he makes use of it in his work.

“The E-Cat detractors are making a wonderful work: they do not know, but I read carefully all they say and write. Their critics sometimes are right, sometimes are not, but in both cases we learn from them. You have noticed that the more they fight against us the more we grow up and a scientific observation should put a ratio cause-effect between the criticism and our growth. . .

“You ask: what they will come up with next ? Whatever it will be, we will take advantage of it. In my life I had to overcome many, many, many very, very negative events and to survive I developed a skill to turn into positive a negative event: for example, when I have been put in prison for crimes I never made, I told to myself: ” what a wonderful occasion to study the LENR: now I lost everything I had, all my time can be dedicated to this”. It worked.”

From this response it sounds like Rossi feels that his detractors are doing him a favor. I find it interesting that he says he reads carefully all the comments of the skeptics, and finds much useful information in them. One would think it might be less time consuming to simply ignore what the detractors are saying, and focus on the R&D at hand.

It would be interesting to take Rossi up on his scientific study proposal — Eventually we might be able to figure out the Criticism: E-Cat growth ratio, but at the moment only the criticism side of the equation is readily available.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Rossi sounds like the farmer in The Farmer’s Horse story.

    http://www.conures.net/stories/horse.shtml

  • Mr. Moho

    I think thermite would only serve to simulate a runaway event.

    • Ophelia Rump

      That sounds like a lively and interactive simulation, you must share it with the skeptics! They will be simply blown away by it.

  • Jonnyb

    A good example to us all.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Here’s a 1998 interview with Eugene Mallove. There are still some things we can learn from this old interview. I think it’s on topic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avpoIAKvYmU

  • Alain Samoun

    Everybody knows this quote of Gandhi:
    “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”

    What is the LENR stage today? I would say they still laughing but not to loud and laugh is becoming a kind of wince. Get ready for the fight…

    • Ophelia Rump

      While I believe that you or Gandhiji or both are correct in this, it seems to me that the competition has already begun, and the battle will held in the marketplace.

      • Alain Samoun

        Well,I’m talking about the big guys,the ones who control the energy market now. The Coal,Oil and Nuke industries and the electric companies who control the grid.That’s where the real fight is going to come from,and not only on the market place.

        • Ophelia Rump

          I think you will find them on both sides of the battle, hedging the bets, maximizing the profits. Only a fool would stand in front of the money train to try and stop it.

          • psi

            Yep.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    right.
    what he says is just keeping the victim quiet before the execution.

    • Omega Z

      First they will be integrated. Then over the next 20 years or so, all others will be executed. I agree in part, Don’t make the natives unnecessarily restless.

      NOTE: Fossil sources are multipurpose, but will decline in volume of use.

  • Sanjeev

    I’m sure he is having a hard time finding any useful skepticism. Most of it comes totally from ignorance and presumptions mainly from people who cannot think for themselves.
    For example the most serious skeptics thought that the coffee machine in Rossi’s place was the hidden source of heat or that he supplied a few megawatts via a tiny earthing cable, or the people who did some calculations on their PC and concluded that its all bogus.
    I have never seen an intelligent critic of Ecat, so good luck Rossi, do not depend too much on the skeptics.

    • Fortyniner

      I think my favourite was maryyugo’s assertion that the early reactors were stuffed with thermite, although some flake’s idea that a hidden microwave ‘projector’ was beaming energy in was a very close second.

      • GreenWin

        Did you forget Mary’s decision to hire a magician to ferret out the sleight of hand trickery being used by DGT? I think the magician was to have come from the Amazing Randi Inst. – a bastion of skeptical zealots.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          for a ponyshow this is a good idea, but the best test is when the testers can plug and touch what they want like for the Levi&al test, or better like future test result.

          when Gamberale decided no to obey to DGT and to test his way, he found the “discrepancies” that according to him can explain all the result.

          it is hard for me to imagine that both Defkalion and gamberale have been honest in that affair…
          now there is possibilities something works, but in that case it is clear Defkalion want to break with Luca Gamberale, like they did with Rossi.

          Too many unknown and the possibilities, all possibilities contain huge quantity of stupidity and dishonesty. Question is who. It is a little less clear today. wait and see.

          the Autumn will be hot.

          • Ophelia Rump

            They have no Catalyst, or worse the most unstable catalyst which Rossi tested. They might have the correct input frequency, or another Rossi poison pill. If Defkalion had anything of value other than an empty reactor device, they would have obtained funding.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Oh my, what a thought, skeptical magicians debunking science and technology. What will the psychotics think of next?

  • robyn wyrick

    This is a great perspective on adversity. I could personally use such a perspective.

    I find myself limping into the long slog of summer. It would have been helpful to have a third party report to energize my spirits, but (deep breath) I can wait.

    So, while we wait, I wanted to pose a question: where do people see LENR/CF plugging in (so to speak) with other, potentially disruptive energy technologies? Do you think the E-Cat will become the energy leader? Will it render solar meaningless? (there are certainly radical explorations being done in the solar energy field)? Will the “united front” of clean, abundant energy alternatives break the fossil fuel economy? What about time-frames (always tricky), do you think we’re going to see rapid uptake of LENR? Or will we be in this slow rollout for decades more? And lastly, what do you think about scale? With the advent of nanotechnology, do you think LENR can be scaled to handheld or smaller devices? Is “Nickle-Hydrogen” going to be running bio-motors in robotic bug swarms?

    Inquiring minds and all…

    • asey

      Rossi many times stated on J-O-N-P that “all energy sources will be integrated”, so the E-Cat will not replace other sources of energy

      Andrea Rossi
      I repeat: all the energy sources must be integrated. The commercial and social impact of the so called Rossi Effect will be made by that universal and democratic medium that is the market: in mercatu veritas.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

    • Billy Jackson

      Lots of questions. My personal Opinion (take it with a grain of salt)

      LENR will first plug into coal, hydro, solar plants. as of right now the E-cat is not free energy.. you still have to pay for the warming/staging process before it gets to active.. even then it requires energy input to keep the reaction at a stable level.. so first plug in will be places that produce energy. the E-Cat will be used augment existing energy input and step it up.. aka the COP of 18 hinted by the unreleased report someone was talking about a month or two ago (18 times more energy out than in) at 18 times out than in. the economy of scale kicks in and it quickly gets ridiculous for energy out.. (fake numbers coming up.. say 1000 watts gives you 18,000 watts.. now scale that up by a factor of 10.. what 10 regular lines would cost you would get 180,000 watts..(the equivalent of owning 180 of today’s prices for the price of 10)

      the energy sector . (not oil. but energy) .. is poised to get its biggest boom ever.. without loosing a dime in profits.. there are manufacturing processes that would give us better materials but due to cost of production.. it makes it to expensive.. this makes certain things more viable.. Vertical farms at todays price are not viable.. but at an expansion of x18 or x 36 (for 2 lines) .. suddenly its plausable and profitable..

      Desalinization. Travel. Construction. engineering. (Space travel… i wont go much into this..but look up what 1g of constant acceleration means). any field that uses or comes into constant use of energy will benefit .

      uptake on LENR .. lets say its proven this year or next year.. you still have production lines and contracts let alone saftey regulations to get through. after all that.. the demand is going to be insane .. right now to convert all cars and buisnesses and current house holds.. this is just whats available today. requires something like 2 billion ecats .. and that doesnt cover buisnesses that have multiple locations (aka mcdonalds) so youll need even more…

      now sometime back they quoted the e-cat plants making 1 million a month.. at that rate.. you would need more than a life time to fill current needs let alone future needs. they would have to build a plant every month capable of putting out a million a month to impact the need.. they need plants that build plants that build e-cats to get it even in the next 20 years…

      competition will rise obviously. so as more become available i think we will start to see them on the streets for the public in say .. 10-15 years.. double that before its in everything that needs it.

      i kinda answered your scale question earlier.. your thinking smaller.. i am thinking bigger.. star travel, star bases, mining asteroids.. water from Saturn.. LENR potentially could kick of the proverbial age of plenty. we are on the verge now of several break throughs that will change our world forever..

      Vertical Farms
      (Graphene electronics) 1thz computers
      3d printing/construction.
      Virtual Reality
      Longevity
      Rejuvenation
      Construction at the molecular layer will eventually lead to construction at the atomic layer .. how much longer till we just print out the molecules we need? oh need some gold.. print print print..
      these are just a few… the only thing that will limit us is our own failure to reach for our dreams.

      • Ophelia Rump

        You have presented an extremely lucid perspective. Nicely done.

      • Omega Z

        “the energy sector .. is poised to get its biggest boom ever.. without loosing a dime in profits.”

        The Players may change if not light on their feet.

      • GreenWin

        I’ll add “virtual reality exploitation,” using the foundation of zoology for educational purpose. Thanks Billy.

    • Omega Z

      Low hanging Fruit will be:
      Heat applications for processing Etc,.
      The quickest, easiest & cheapest part of the market to penetrate.
      Requires a Ht/LT E-cat & a simple boiler distribution tank. Nothing complex. Even this could be more complicated then we may imagine. It will require balancing of the heat production verses extraction without quenching the effect.

      Electrical energy production will follow later. This will require a lot of specialty engineering to become efficient & economical.

  • Billy Jackson

    Rossi’s story will be a clear cut case of thriving in the face of adversity should he prove his detractors wrong with the long awaited report. I have noticed a severe drop off over the last couple of weeks of most of skeptics.. i think they are running out of steam in the face of his perseverance.

    at every turn he has proven himself one way or the other. not always right away.. and sometimes we have had to wait months for the answers .. but i haven’t seen anything i can call blatantly false from him yet.

    • Owen Geiger

      I wonder about the traffic to LENR detractor websites. At some point they’ll have half a dozen trolls talking to themselves (circle jerk) and no one else cares. Give ‘em a few more months until the public can view an operational plant and these sites will be all but dead. Good riddance.

      • Fortyniner

        The skeps have been doing little more than chasing their own tails for months. The brighter ones have mostly already lost interest in the endless contrived sneering and mutual ego grooming at sites like ECN.

    • psi

      Billy,

      Agreed. In early days the skeptics were experts at turning any contradiction or failed project on Rossi’s part into an intentional lie. To others it seemed merely that he was being optimistic about certain goals in a fluid and changing landscape, and perhaps speaking too early and too enthusiastically about his plans and ideas. He has scaled back this kind of talk in proportion to demonstrable advances such as the third party report and the affiliation with IH/Cherokee. It appears that his skeptics were experts at turning molehills into mountains.

      • psi

        Oops. For “project” read “projection.”

      • Billy Jackson

        Most people think i am a full blown supporter of Rossi. I am not. I dare say that i am a hopeful believer (95%).BUT! I question what he says. i question his findings, and i question my own education and perception regarding all the work he’s done so far that i can understand or find answers to.

        What i find distasteful is the personal attacks on Rossi. the dredging up of his past for things that has nothing to do with the current projects he’s working on. I find most abhorrent the label of scam artist or con artist. As to the best of my knowledge he’s used his own money up till he sold the project to IH.

        I find detestable the fact that some people asked for and got the work they wanted with the first series of tests and then turned around and attacked the scientist that did the work. saying they were “in on it” .. this to me has been the weakest argument yet and frankly made me question their own objectivity.

        I have no problem with people questioning his work or even attacking his work on LENR in an effort to prove him wrong. but when you fail.. leave the personal attacks at home as it makes you seem childish and petulant that in the end you didn’t get the answers you wanted to hear.

        Rossi is not a native English speaker. add to the fact that he was excited, hopeful. and just plain eager to share his information. i have no doubt that he embellished the truth. I have no doubt that his mind was going crazy with ideas on what his e-cat can do or accomplish.. heck just look back on his previous writings and he was all over the place.. research it and you will find that while he has jumped around on subjects and sometimes uses the wrong verbiage… he hasn’t blatantly lied about anything that i have found.. yet his detractors are more than willing to.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    Antifragile.

    Things that gain from disorder, people who grow from trauma, business who benefit of changes, arguments which get stronger with critics.

  • bachcole

    It is easy for him to be confident because he not only has the goods but he also knows that he can PROVE IT. And I am confident that he will.

  • pg

    Brilliant, the only worse thing than being ignored is to be used…
    He looks like he s having fun writing lately.