Phonon Energy Working With Seattle University on Cold Fusion [Update: Defkalion Connection]

There’s an interesting YouTube video that was published on June 30 by a organization called Phonon Energy in which the company’s CEO, David Daggett, introduces his company and discusses plans to work with Seattle University in the field of cold fusion/LENR on developing a prototype boiler.

He covers a little of the history of cold fusion’s beginnings with Pons and Fleischmann, and says that recent research has shown that the anomalous heat effect can be reproduced consistently — and this has spurred him to start working in LENR.

Also featured in the video is Dr. Teodora Shuman, Department Chair of Mechanical Engineering at Seattle University who discusses their interest in the field.

Daggett says that Phonon Energy will start its work by removing a burner from a commercial boiler and replacing it with an LENR heat source. According to the video Seattle University students will be involved in helping with the R&D process.

Phonon Energy’s web site is still under construction, but there is an Investor Relations page which provides some information about the company. It says that they are applying for 501(c)3 status, which is a nonprofit public charity under US law.

I have to say I like Daggett’s attitude about putting the past in the past, and not getting caught up in the controversies that happened 25 years ago. This looks like a serious effort to try and work on a practical level with LENR.

Thanks to David Nygren of E-Cat Forum for sharing the link with me.

UPDATE: Thanks to Alainco for spotting this from the Investor Relations page: “A spin off company could later be created to leverage the new knowhow and allow investment by VC firms in order to design new applications and also purchase the license rights from Defkalion to the N. American market.”

Also, under the 24 month business plan.

Goals & Objectives (24 month0

  • Build a retrofit device for a commercial boiler
  • Perform system shakedown testing at SU* using a reactor simulator
  • Remove simulator and install HENI unit at Defkalion. Perform system tests & validate
  • Install the prototype boiler system in an operating environment and perform endurance testing
  • Prove the technology to OEM(s)

So it seems there is a connection with Defkalion here.

UPDATE 2: I found this on David Daggett’s LinkedIn page:

After being a skeptic for 7 years about LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) technology, I started taking nuclear engineering classes and also witnessing small LENR unit lab tests. I now realize that this technology will make fossil fuels obsolete and can provide affordable energy to the world. I’m devoting the rest of my working career to enabling it.”

I wonder if those tests were done at the Defkalion lab. Seattle is not far from Vancouver.



  • Man

    “Andrea Rossi
    July 12th, 2014 at 5:04 PM
    Giovanni Guerrini:

    I agree with you, but I am very worried of the wannabe competitors that
    now are presenting clowneries, like did Defkalion: they are very
    dangerous, because their failures will spray dirt on our work, as well
    as defkalion did: our enemies are eager to find another defkocones to
    say that all LENR world is a clownerie. Therefore I want to say sound
    and clear: we have replicated all the existing patents and know hows
    regarding the LENR existing in the world and no one of them has
    manifested a real heat excess with the following exceptions:
    Ikegami-Petterson system and Brian Ahern System. These are the only two
    systems that actually gave us evidence of a heat excess. All the other
    systems that we have reproduced ( and we have reproduced, with huge
    investments, all of the systems that have been proposed in all the world
    in the last 20 years, with particular attention on the experiments made
    in the last 4 years, that have been analyzed with extreme endeavour)
    have not given any heat excess evidence. One of them had put in the
    market a “kit” that has turned out to be a joke. I have to say this to
    make well clear that any future failure coming from all the burlesque
    reactors persented recently have nothing to do with our work and has not
    any right to cite our work as a reference without our explicit
    I hope this has been understood sound and clear, because
    I have been strongly disturbed form all the insults I had to sustain
    after the fraud of the Defkokones has been put in evidence, even if I
    had said from the beginning that Defkalion was a fraud. Much before
    Others have put it in evidence.
    Warm Regards,

    He wrote clearly: “Defkalion was a FRAUD.”

  • forget all, mary yugo killed that hope like some similar toxic minds ruined some hagelstein project earlier, like some advisor convinced greek government to ignore Rossi (letting room for xanthoulis), like those who blocked lenr-cities in neuchatel…

    mary may look funny but in fact she/he is one of the most toxic human being on earth, with sylvie coyaud, if you consider what she does.

    off with their head…

    sorry I feel less funny today, despite all I know that is happening, because I afraid Mary may break all …

    please when things will have changed, don’t forgive.

  • Fortyniner

    I think that engineering will dictate the form and performance characteristics of the basic unit for each technology variant. Once that is settled the individual reactor ‘cores’ can probably be stacked in different configurations to meet any number of requirements, including ‘retrofits’ to replace existing boiler models.

  • Gerard McEk

    It would be interesting to know why the video has been removed. Because it is a privately owned university, I guess it 95% sure the ‘owners’ are responsible for this action. I am going to find out who they are….

    • Fortyniner

      That would be interesting to know.

      • Gerard McEk

        It was a former jesuit collage, later transformed to university. It is now a non profit organization. Gifts are a major income for this university and I guess frequent donors do have a considerable influence. Although there are some mentioned on their website it is difficult to say whether or or not these pull the cords.

  • I have asked.
    Daggett is aware of Gamberale’s critics, but his feeling is good…
    I don’t share his feeling, but I don’t share his visit in Athens.

    whatever hypothesis you choose, something unbelievably stupid and nasty happened, so wait and see. The good point is that the potential losses are small and the potential gains are huge. that is a penny stock, a stock option.

    Future will say… maybe this fall…

    • I trusted them from their serious behavior at the beginning, compared to rossi who was loose and secret…
      then they started no to deliver.
      Serious and disinteredted guys like Jed Rothwell started to moan on their behavior (nont pay bill, change demo schedule, eternal delay)…
      The test by Nelson (for a NGO, but he is NASA engineer) of Defkalion reactor was not bullet proof but seemed reassuring, despite the pathetic way it was published…

      ICCF18 demo was a ponnyshow like early E-cat tests… I did not care much on the critics however since skeptic are dead clock and moan on anything (they moaned on all including the electric circuit and gamberale confirmed it was OK on that side)…
      Soon gamberale said there was “discrepancies” that needed to be addressed, and nothing was done by defkalion to clear them…

      When Gamberale published the report, it was clear the ICCF18 was not good, and the fact that Defkalion did not answer was much more informative… the simplest, but not only, interpretation is that it was a fraud…
      They did not answer against those evident accusations… I imagine they have nothing to say, but maybe there is more complex explanation.

      whatever happened, some people have been deeply dishonest of deeply stupid, probably all and maybe together.

      Defkalion on business seems to be non-serious, and this is the only tiny chance that can explain their behavior without involving evil deed.

      However when I add their insistence to control waterflow and make fluid boil, in Nelson test, their insistence to tune water flow in ICCF18, they absence of any serious answer to the accusations, their lack of serious demo, the mediocrity of the provate tests reported to Jed Rothwell, their bad behaviors with jed rothwell, it is hard to be optimistic…

      I am very sad of that because Peter Gluck is a friend and trust them (he have real contact with Yiannis), and David Daggett is nice. I will be the most happy man who admit he screw up, if Peter and David Daggett proven me wrong.

      If my gut feeling is good I’m afraid there is victim of that even inside Defkalion, and Luca is probably not the worst victim.

      Anyway is someone want to invest in Defkalion, he just have to require a third party independent blackbox test, hand on the reactor, free of the protocol, making the wiring and the plumbing himself, installing his instruments…
      If they accept sincerely, their reactor works. and I am the most happy proved wrong man on earth.
      Current data don’t go in that direction, but sometime you have to make your data and not wait for them. That is what David Daggett is doing.

  • Christopher Calder


    On Tuesday, November 4th, 2014, the USA will change radically. The election will bring in a new government, and the Rossi test and Defkalion’s unveiling of their new reactor design will be sinking in to the public mind. If the Solar Hydrogen Trends claims turns out to be real (who knows?), that will be the icing on the cake of change. Economics will become pro-growth, and the price of oil, barring a war, will start to drop. It will be a different world. What is up now will be down then. What is down now will be up then. By the way, we will all need seat belts even when we are not driving.

  • Oceans2014

    check out David Daggett / CEO at Phonon Energy Inc – Linked in account HE SAYS:

    “After being a skeptic for 7 years about LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) technology, I started taking nuclear engineering classes and also witnessing small LENR unit lab tests. I now realize that this technology will make fossil fuels obsolete and can provide affordable energy to the world. I’m devoting the rest of my working career to enabling it.”

  • Ophelia Rump

    That was a poem, how lovely!

  • LuFong

    In the video, the LENR device shown had “Hyperion” written on it in at least two occasions. I noticed this immediately and am surprised this has not been mentioned. So it appears that Phonon Energy has plans to integrate a Hyperion into a Boiler replacing the heating element with this LENR device. It’s not clear whether they actually have an agreement with Defkalion to be a system integrator–I kind of doubt it — and is why they removed the video.

    • Omega Z

      Note under financial plans-
      Discussions are under way with other reactor suppliers

  • ecatworld

    You need to read the comments in the thread.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I think that was a rhetorical question.

    • GreenWin

      Skeps immediately pounce on any university professor daring to countenance LENR. Note MY’s demand fellow skeps write to offending professor and or administration. This is effective especially in universities receiving federal funding of any kind.

      Unfortunately, it is not in support of the scientific method.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Dang! LENR units have blown up and killed people. Let’s just add some students and a boiler to the equation. It is fun to see converts and the painfully slow death of skepticism.

    • Ophelia Rump

      If the reaction is derived from theory, they should know in advance if a reaction will kill them all with Neutron Bombardment or release all that vast energy in a single pico second.

      As I recall the power density is equivalent to thermonuclear. I seriously doubt they could get anything larger than a Hiroshima sized event from the little they would be using.

      It would be the cleanest thermo nuclear detonation in history. What is one small University more or less, the kids will love the experience.

  • ecatworld

    The above video now states it has been removed by the user.

  • jousterusa

    This is encouraging, in that the LENR work is taking place in connection with a university. I’ve lived in Seattle and never heard of Seattle University, but I will assume it’s legitimate. Universities won’t normally lend their academic standing and prestige to science projects that are discredited or fantastic. For that reason, it’s probably pretty important, at least to the college, that the phrase “cold fusion” be avoided when speaking of LENR. For myself, I think the rehabilitation of the reputations of Pons and Fleischmann should be a major goal of our movement, if we can call it that.

  • Ophelia Rump

    He is going to use a general understanding of the process and apply brute force methodologies, to trying all the possible variables in a simulator, to determine the theoretically best combinations of reactants and catalysts to test in the real world. Such a clever boy!

  • Stanny Demesmaker

    Interesting, David Daggett worked 14 years for boeing :

    Technical Fellow
    Boeing Commercial Airplanes
    January 1998– March 2012 (14 years 3 months)
    Everett, Wa
    Worked to improve airplane environmental performance, including:
    biofuels (1st commercial flight), fuel cells (1st GA fuel cell powered
    flight), efficient APUs (1st SOFC APU patent), engines and future
    airplane designs. Interested in future energy possibilities (e.g. LENR).
    19 papers, 8 patents & 5 awards for energy & emissions

    • GreenWin

      Remember that Boeing was contracted by NASA to study designs for the SUGAR ultra-green aircraft project. One of the propulsion systems studied was LENR.

      • maybe this raised interest for Mr Daggett, but currently there is no relationship with his ex-employer… sadly for him I imagine.

        AFAIK his only formal relationship is with Defkalion. He have contact with LENR scientists like Miley, Jet Energy, some Chinese academics, some NASA folks…

        However he is experience with disruptive innovation and the “you are ridicule” phase… he explain it happened for the fuel cell APU in Boeing, that Airbus does copy.

        The bad point about Defkalion is that he did not test himself (if he did, I would trust 99%), the good is that he is competent in heat measurement.

        future will say.

        • GreenWin

          Thanks Alain. If one wanted to keep a classified program well compartmentalized, “retired” employees would make sense. Boeing and every major aerospace company is following new (LENR) energetics closely. Those who will excel are those who demonstrate positive, generous actions toward special knowledge assets.

          • if you hear how he describe the period in boeing when his ideas of fuel cell was ridiculed, you would simply feel that he is just trying again to bet on a revolution against the establishment.

            if LENR would start in Boeing I imagine they would host it in their innovation division like his fuel cell. maybe they have such a project (explaining why they ignore him), but it is like others flying under the radars.

            believe me, it is crowded under the radar.

  • Sanjeev

    Good to see more people from mainstream science and business hopping on the lenr bandwagon. These people from Phonon seem to be very capable and experienced to me. Very impressive backgrounds.

    Assuming that the video was recorded recently, I can guess that DGT is still alive and the latest attempt of debunking by DE was not very honest. Their website does say that they are looking into other reactor suppliers too, so there is no formal agreement with DGT yet.

  • Barry8

    Another college gets on board. University of Missouri 1, Seattle University 1, MIT zero (except for one professor, Peter Hagelstein, who refuses to give up).

    • Peter is quite a character
      He does not compromise

    • GreenWin

      Many other university physics departments conduct LENR experiments – with low or no profile. Dr. John Dash has been doing CF studies at Portland State for years:

  • bitplayer

    I like the converted skeptic angle.
    Also, on the investors page it says Phonon Energy board of directors includes:
    John Plaza, CEO Imperium Renewables
    which appears to be a significant alt energy company

  • Mr. Moho

    It appears this is related to Defkalion GT. I see references to “HENI”, “Hyperion”, “Defkalion” both in the video and on the Phonon Energy website.

    • In the investor page, they clearly state they plan to build a prototype with an Hyperion…

      If Defkalion really have a working reactor, the next question is why did they let Defkalion Europe panic and close by not answering their questions ?

      more and more difficult to understand

      • Jim Anderson

        If Defkalion had a working reactor and the arrangments with Defkalion Europe (DE) were less favorable now then when they were made not answering DEs questions would be a cheap way to get out of the deal with DE. Did Defkalion suffer any direct loss from DE closing or did they gain a return of licensing rights?

        • hard to imagine any reason for their behavior, so hard to exclude anything.

          • Ophelia Rump

            They do not need a working reactor to have an asset. They can sell the Reactor which Rossi actually tested on. And probably his waveform technology. This will give them a head-start in reproducing Rossi’s work.
            Or testing other materials. They never had his catalyst.

            • Broncobet

              ” Once you accept the validity of Rossi’s work”

              • Ophelia Rump

                That has been established sufficiently to attract financing and competitors. That would suffice.