More on the 1MW E-Cat Plant from Rossi

Andrea Rossi has said that he wouldn’t be able to provide any details about the specifications of the 1 MW plant until it was open to inspection by visitors, but today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics he answered some questions from readers that actually clarify the picture quite a bit more.

In responses to various questions today, Rossi stated:

  • The 1 MW plant will be installed at the premises of a USA customer.
  • It will be the same size as the previously revealed 1 MW plant.
  • It won’t be used to heat a building, rather:
  • It will be providing the sole source of energy for an industrial process (not supplementing another power source)

From these responses it seems to me that the 1MW plant being installed may be the same one that was shipped from Ferrara to the USA last year — or at least the same shell might be used. That plant had already been refurbished prior to the performance testing it went through prior to acceptance. If you remember, when this plant was tested in October 2011 it had problems with leaks (Rossi said the gaskets were bad) and it only ran at half power.

Rossi has said that the technology for this plant has gone through ‘substantial evolution’ compared to earlier E-Cats , and this could mean that further modifications have been made. I believe Rossi has said that all his reactors now use the ‘cat and mouse’ configuration — which were not used in earlier models.

But maybe this is a brand new plant inside a new container of a similar size to earlier ones.

There had been some discussion about this plant being installed in Sweden since Hydro Fusion had at one time announced they were looking for a customer who would receive a donation of a free 1 MW plant — but now it seems that the first open plant will be operation somewhere in the United States

It’s interesting that Rossi says this plant will be providing all the required power in an industrial process. Could that mean it will be providing heat in a process where only heat is needed — or will it be providing electrical power too? Rossi has said the Industrial Heat is looking at the cogeneration market as an early application for the E-Cat.

There’s lots to speculate about — I hope it won’t be too long before we can know for sure. A working plant providing all the power at a reduced cost for an industrial operation of an external IH customer would be strong evidence for the E-Cat being a legitimate new energy technology.

  • Omega Z

    Your Right, People screw up.
    But, It’s actually a little more involved then that.
    They Gamble: Under the guise of cost/benefit Risk management.
    Every X number of years/decades, This event can be expected to happen. Like storm of the century Etc.

    Someone determined that this plant would reach end of life-cycle & have been replaced before such an event happens. Many things around us take these numbers into account. And many disasters happen because of it.

    You would think someone would realize that Nature Doesn’t Run according to our schedule. Like a specific Volcano erupts every 200 years on average. They leave out the plus/minus factor.

  • Omega Z

    Call it MAXnet

    Put things right?
    Not even Pixie Dust is has that Mystical ability.

  • Omega Z

    “natures best hope” And some days that thought really scares me.

    I hope some Alien Lifeforms sees some redeeming qualities in our species & steps in if necessary.
    Not Likely.
    No! Not the Alien Lifeforms, The “redeeming qualities” :-)

  • Warthog
  • Warthog

    One extant piece of information was a letter exchanged by Langmuir w. (IIRC) Niehls Bohr describing what he thought were over-unity energy measurements in the tungsten-hydrogen system. Bohr told him that such was impossible, so Langmuir dropped further investigation. I think the letter is in a collection of Bohr’s papers. There is a description of the incident on the I’net.

  • Charles

    Good memory there Mac

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Oh yeah! How’s this for the advertizing campaign?
    Hot-Cat Tea.
    The answers to the 25 year old question.

    Or

    Hot-Cat Tea.
    Only for the smuggest of twerps.

    Or

    Smug Twerp Tea.
    25 years in the making.

  • Omega Z

    References are hard to come by, but something in the range of half dozen different elements react to some degree.
    I Believe Mills/BLP switched to molybdenum in his device.

  • georgehants

    As has been said by many, the quicker the release of “proof” of Cold Fusion the better.
    We have a World of the 21st century where millions are dying for need of food, clean water and basic medicine.
    The rich countries worshiping the selfish greed of capitalism etc. refuse to change our views, to bring an equality where all are free to prosper from the massive over production abilities of technology today that can easily supply enough for all.
    Where entirely because of capitalism Cold Fusion has to play the crazy game we are witnessing today.
    Patents, profit, IP protection, cover-ups, fear of job losses, and many other pointless hurdles that would all be removed without corrupt capitalism.
    The people of Japan fighting to stop Nuclear killing machines from being built on their doorsteps will hopefully have their problem removed when Cold Fusion breaks through the conspiracy to stop or slow its advance.
    ——-
    Japan city launches legal bid to halt reactor build
    http://phys.org/news/2014-07-japan-city-legal-halt-reactor.html

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      Then let us try to steer the future with positive objectives and insight to what can be done. I believe that there are good people with good ideas driving this change and that if the welfare of mankind is not in direct opposition to their own good that they will go out of their way for the sake of mankind.

  • Doktor Bob

    You mean Facebook?
    They have one and build one more if I remember correctly.
    I spoke to one guy in charge of the first one a few years ago as I was consulting a bit for Dell. It ended up being a 2 hours long conversation That guy was sharp, really sharp.

    I dont have his contact information any longer and the guy is a ghost.
    Impossible to find any information on him on the internet. I think he uses fake identities to stay under the radar.

    Possible we can get it again through doing some puzzle if someone here has any knowledge of the data centre industry… this guy, all though not very known in general is most probably a known name in that industry. I would love to speak to him again.

  • Buck

    Archelon,

    The news that the 1-MW E-Cat installation is in the USA was properly reported.

    If you have a question about Frank’s reporting, I suggest first reading the source information first. Rossi was very clear about the E-Cat being installed in the USA.

    • ecatworld

      I have no doubt that it is in the USA — Rossi had informed me of this previous to this post on the JONP in response to a specific question.

      • Buck

        Frank, your reporting is fantastic. I’m just suggesting to those who might question, to instead check first as then they will not put a bad foot forward.

        • ecatworld

          Thanks, Buck.

  • galu

    Hmm, Google barge anyone ??

  • Maxfield Q Norse

    Yes, as a steak is far more interesting than a picture of a steak.

    • Joe mountain

      Tasting the steak, touching the steak, is even more interesting

      • roseland67

        Joe,
        Are you suggesting that you should believe what your senses tell you,
        and maybe not what you are told by others?

  • ecatworld

    AR today in response to more questions about the 1MW plant:

    “I can answer only to this:
    a- the Customer is independent from us and has no participation to our business
    b- its employ is to make heat for industrial purposes.
    About all the other issues, we will give due specifications when the visits will be allowed.
    About the imbeciles, let them laugh, but, please, do not call them scientists: scientists are curious, intelligent and always wait for solid experimentation; besides, they never laugh of working people: only an imbecile can laugh of persons that are working with all the force they dispose of, and a scientist cannot be an imbecile.”

    • Barry8

      Sounds great only, I would argue with his final point.

      • Maxfield Q Norse

        The last point works well enough for a rule of thumb. Maybe it is not a law of nature.

      • clovis ray

        Hi, Barry, i agree, and a scientist cannot be an imbecile.” i hold Dr Rossi in high regard, as a scientist, but i can’t say that the rest aren’t idiots,imbeciles, or just plain stupid. they all dumped on F&P, and wrecked their reputations, as scientist, and very few real scientest
        came to their side, and picked up their work and carried to on,

      • Omega Z

        Barry, some Perspective- I think Rossi’s interpretation is-
        “and a scientist cannot be an imbecile.”
        He is just an imbecile pretending to be a Scientist. :-)

  • Bernie777

    Yes, and would result in a huge reduction in fossil fuels use.

  • Jay Sloat

    I’ve always heard that a major cost driver in foundry industries (especially Aluminum with a melting point of 660 C) was the energy cost of heating metals to their melting point. If a hot-cat could meet or beat 660 C without thermal runaway, that could represent millions in savings to that industry.

    • ecatworld

      Good point — there’s still no comment from AR as to whether this 1MW plant is a low- or high-temperature model. I would expect that foundries would be very interested in the hotcats if they can realize considerable savings.

      • georgehants

        georgehants
        July 2nd, 2014 at 10:06 AM
        Dear Mr. Rossi, could you clear a little confusion.
        Is your new 1MW plant driven by the older E-cats or the newer Hot-cats.
        Best wishes
        —–
        Andrea Rossi
        July 2nd, 2014 at 11:27 AM
        Georgehants:
        We will give specifications when the visits will be allowed.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

      • Doktor Bob

        I use a hot cat in my kitchen whenever I need to melt some butter.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      If it can do 1600 C dry, it might be used in glass furnaces.
      It could make small scale local glass working extremely cost competitive.
      I might take up glass working myself.

      • Omega Z

        Nickel melts at 1425’C.
        IMO, 1200’C would be a cut off to allow a margin of safety.
        Some things such as aluminum my be in the cards in the future. I suspect the present project is of lower hanging fruit. Something requiring heat in the low 100’s Just a proof on concept & a way to determine the economics of the technology.

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          I suspect that the reaction can sustain in a molten state, and this is how they had early melt through E-Cat incidents. I do not believe that they can yet prevent a molten core from running out of control.
          Presumably they melted through pipes of unspecified metal and possibly porcelain liners.

          • Omega Z

            Rossi has stated repeatedly that it is intrinsically safe as when the Nickel melts the effect stops. He’s also posted in the past that he tried many different metals & obtaining various results. He’s never elaborated though I assume he used the most promising, controllable, economic metal.

            There are other possibilities for higher temps. BLP/Randall Mills I believe switched to Molybdenum- melting point 2623’C. Mentioned by others, Titanium- melting point 1668’C as well as Tungsten- melting point 3422’C And that most of the Transition metals make good candidates.

            With higher temps, Aside from control, You also have to be able to contain it in vacuum without the heating elements & container melting. If attainable, these would never be allowed in residential use. The Temps of a Hot-cat is already highly questionable.

  • georgehants

    From JONP
    Jeff Smathers
    July 1st, 2014 at 9:31 PM
    I’d like to post a recent paper that may describe a directly
    contributing attribute in this field. It is interesting how associated
    fields in physics are merging results of disparate science activities
    into a possible explaination for the anomlies many are now utilizing in
    alternative energy platforms.
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1406.3941
    Thank you again Mr. Rossi for your diligence and honest efforts in
    applying the real scientific method, and not the current ego driven
    ‘religion of modern science’.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      It seems that the hydrogen is driven into the matrix of the crystal lattice so that it’s atoms sit nestled between the atoms of the crystal. The crystal is then rung like a bell, driving the atoms even closer allowing them to transfer energy.

      This is such a simple concept. If it is correct, future generations will have a difficult time understanding how scientists could reject the possible existence of Cold Fusion.
      This is only a slightly more complex mechanism than a piezoelectric device.

      • Fortyniner

        Magnetostriction in the Ni lattice could provide the interstitial ‘crushing’ effect that might help overcome Coulomb forces. That would be the role of the RF ‘driver’ that is occasionally hinted at by Rossi, or the direct current flow in the nickel used by some other claimants. I’d like to think so – that has been a pet theory of mine since the ‘plumbing parts’ prototype.

        • Omega Z

          I think I prefer the Pixie dust.
          Sounds so much more mystical & just drives certain entities nuts. :-)

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            Gremlins!

            • Omega Z

              That too

  • georgehants

    As Cold Fusion has an effect on almost every area of life, I will make the point again that our topic pages should like today be left free to develop in any direction that contributors feel they have something to say.
    Many people, I think, are frightened of saying anything that is slightly off-topic, so they simple do not.
    It makes it far more interesting.
    Will allow far more comments on page.
    I think it is only those scientists with very narrow areas of thinking that complain when the topic is not religiously kept narrow.
    Any ordinary guy is quite capable of choosing which areas to comment to.
    This will avoid the daft situation of readers having to jump between multiple pages over and over.
    Wonderful day

    • US_Citizen71

      While I agree that the readership here is on the whole intelligent enough to deal with the occasional off topic thread that comes up, I think the always open thread is the better location for many of these discussions. It is my feeling that the admin through current policy is simply attempting to keep the long back and forth threads that come with topics such as AGW for crowding up the comment areas of threads that have nothing to do with such side topics.

      • georgehants

        Now come on guys if I don’t get one person agreeing with me I shall get upset and refuse to eat all of my spinach.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      I agree, there is an interesting dynamic here.
      You could compare it to walking into an authentic New York Deli.
      Yes you want the best possible sandwich, and you can have it there.
      But you also will enjoy New York street theater of the absurd. There will be characters who make the experience uniquely entertaining each time.

      You can open a New York Deli in any other city but Manhattan and serve exactly the same food. But it will never be an authentic New York Deli in Idaho.

  • Paul

    Regarding the saving measure, to be more clear. Tipically, an industrial process consumes X cubic meter/day of gas. This is very easy to measure, you only read an already existant meter, and is officially certified from the gas meter/provider. If you replace partially the gas consumed with an Hot Cat, it is easy to measure how cubic meters of gas you save every day and, again, is certified by the official gas meter on daily base and by a gas provider on the long term. So, you have the info the customer need to evaluate the saving from this invention.

    • Omega Z

      Natural Gas can vary. Electric would be more specific.
      But I believe Rossi said it is 100% E-cat heated so the numbers would be easier to determine.

  • Daniel Maris

    Well, assuming all is above board, my guess would be this is in the food processing industry where they use a huge amount of hot water for various processes.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    The most logical application would be a cooling system for Rossi’s own workshop. Imagine that it is high summer and there are several 10 kW reactors running all the time. Even with heat sinks outside the building he and his staff must be ovenproof to stand the temperatures.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The smug twerps won’t be able to laugh this one away with “Please, may I have a cup of tea?” jokes like they have for the past quarter of a century.

    • Fortyniner

      I would love to see a really ironic use such as by an instant coffee manufacturer, but I suppose that is too much to hope!

      • US_Citizen71

        I would love it if the the test customer turned out to be a manufacturer of pre-made tea like the Snapple or Arizona branded teas here in the US. Likely too much to hope for since they are owned by major bottling conglomerates.

        • Fortyniner

          ‘Pre-made’ tea!! Are there no depths to which our transatlantic cousins will not sink?

          • Omega Z

            Your King would have been been proud.
            Until he saw the price. Then he would be Furious.
            He so under taxed it. He could have charged so much more.

            I can have beer for less per bottle.

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            One Word, Ovaltine!

            In case you do not know what that is, it was and maybe still is a drink made from powdered dry liver and marketed to childrens mothers as a healthy substitute for Chocolate Milk. I have tasted Ovaltine and Pork Soda, and I assure you the Pork Soda wins hands down.

      • Maxfield Q Norse

        Awesome response!

      • Omega Z

        Instant Tea anyone.

  • Jonnyb

    This could be it, let’s hope.

  • Paul

    I guess it is a Hot “Tiger”, so it should have a huge COP and an high temperature output, very good for every kind of industrial process. However, it seems to me that nothing has been told about his power, electrical or gas. A gas fired prototype would be much simpler to evaluate regarding the performance.

    • Gerard McEk

      Temperatures over 600-700 degrees C make the Ecat less stable (that was the case a year ago), so I do not think the temperature will be that much more elevated. Cascading or bootstrapping E-cats may improve the COP and efficiency. Why is a gas fired Ecat easier to analyze on its performance compared to an electrical one? I think it is much easier to measure electrical power exactly than determine the caloric values of the supplied natural gas.

      • Paul

        No, electrical input is more difficult to measure correctly and beyond any skeptik’s doubt, see for example discussion on this in Lewan’s book. Gas – gas measures are much easier, because you compare apples with apples…

        • Gerard McEk

          As an very experienced electrical engineer I very much disagree. If you buy a proper power meter you can measure power from DC to kHz AC with an accuracy within 0.5% or better.
          For measuring the energy of gas you need to know the caloric value of the gas, which varies; the flow, which depends of the gas composition and you need to ensure that the gas is fully burned. For each of these three it is relatively difficult to guarantee the accuracy and proper operation.

          • Paul

            As a physics I agree, but you face with general public, not with expert in electrical measures and performance evaluation… Regarding the gas, it is not important the caloric value, because obviously you make a differential measure

        • Mike

          Well, you have to know in detail the gas composition, the pressure and gas temperature at the meter. Believe me, this is not as easy as it may sound. Mats Lewan may be rather new to gas engineering details. Natural gas is not very common in Sweden. Stockholm converted from old city gas (gasified petroleum products) to natural gas only 2-3 years ago.

      • Maxfield Q Norse

        700 C is very close to the melting point of the core.
        Only a molten core will do much about that, and that is currently impossible to control, although I believe it is possible because they have been known to melt through the housing which would require substantially higher temperatures.
        I think that once the core melts, the reaction becomes a runaway train.

        So I think molten core is possible but not yet controllable.

        If it has melted through a ceramic housing that is a temperature of over 1980 C

        • Gerard McEk

          I believe Rossi once mentioned that the reaction stops when the nickel melts. That should be then around 1453 C. That would oppose the fact that it could melt through a ceramic or iron housing, unless these materials also start to react with hydrogen at that temperature, which I doubt, but you never know what the catalyzer does :-)

          • US_Citizen71

            The pictures of the hotcat from last years report, that showed the hotcat glowing red, seemed to show outlines of the heating coils as essentially shadows. This could be interpreted two ways; one that heat(infrared) was coming from the core and the coils were blocking it or that an another frequency of energy (x-rays and low level gamma) was being emitted from the core and that energy caused the casing to heat and glow and some of that energy was being adsorbed by the coils. I would think that emitted infrared would bring the coils close to the core temperature in short order and therefore the shadows should have been less distinctive if not non-existent. Higher frequency energy on the other hand would not heat the coils to the same degree as the casing as they are likely different materials (tungsten vs steel) as well as more likely in my view to produce the fairly detailed shadow effect on the casing . The blocking of higher frequency energy to me seems a more likely explanation. If the working energy is not infrared but is instead x-rays and/or gamma it should be possible to build a reactor where the core is insulated from the heat of the casing via ceramics and possibly cooling air while still allowing most if not virtually all of the higher frequency energy out of the core. By doing that it might be possible to build a reactor that produces heat beyond the melting point of nickel without melting the nickel. Until the exact method of heat production is determined/announced all we can do is guess at the theoretical limits of the ecat.

            • Maxfield Q Norse

              I like your line of reasoning. This is much like inductive heating turned inside out.

            • Omega Z

              The shadow was the silhouette. The Core was hotter then the external area where the coils were positioned.

              • US_Citizen71

                I understand that viewpoint for observation but, the thing that I can can’t square in my mind is that the coils should be in close contact with core so that they can heat it when powered, so the hot core should heat them as well. Granted they do not likely have the exact same radiative properties as the core but if heated to within a few degrees of the core, which should not take long through conduction, the heated radiated by them should be close to the heat radiated by the core and they have the virtue of being closer to casing which should increase the efficiency transfer of heat to the casing. So silhouettes of the coils caused by thermal radiation in my mind wouldn’t have such a hard contrast. I may be completely wrong and off base. My hypothesis of the energy transfer being another frequency other than infrared/thermal is due to two things. One being that heating caused by say absorption of x-rays by the steel would be a more localized effect and would likely in mind have a possibility for a higher contrast due to some of the x-ray energy being absorbed by the coils and casting a shadow like a medical x-ray. The second reason is, I have never been able to come up with a working theory that makes sense to me why heat would be needed to be applied to continue the reaction if heat/thermal energy is produced in abundance in the core. If the reaction simply needs to reach a certain temperature to begin producing more heat than was inputted into the system (COP >1) then it should continue on until it runs out of fuel once it reaches the critical temperature to begin the reaction. The only hypothesis I have been able to come up with is that the reaction is endothermic to a certain degree but produces a net energy increase by radiating in other frequencies/means other than thermal/infrared.

                • Omega Z

                  I’ll see if I can confuse you some more.
                  ADD Heat to dampen/reduce the temp/runaway???
                  Rossi has given this answer at least twice.
                  This may have to due with the electrical current, but Rossi has never really elaborated on this answer.
                  I’ve read of something of this nature years ago, but don’t recall the details.

                  The Heating Coils- Their placed within what appears a porcelain structure to hold them rigid in place. Seems they were placed away from the core, but I could be mistaken. If I find the images, I’ll post them sometime.

            • Gerard McEk

              Interesting thoughts US_citizen71. However, I still think that such a clear shadow of the heating coils would also appear if the core pipe with the Ni nano powder is hot and the hot pipe radiates its heat through the heating coil and the outer pipe. But is is all guessing and maybe you have a point here.

          • Omega Z

            I believe Nickel melts at around 1425’C, but in runaway can go substantially higher for a few seconds. But then you’re all done. I think it was mentioned of 2000’C in a melt down.

            • Gerard McEk

              142 C? I looked it up in Wikipedia so you could right :)
              When a runaway can reach 2000, then that would explain it.

  • Gerard McEk

    Greenhouses need a lot of low level temperature heat during the fall-winter-spring period. No doubt there are many others but non come to m mind. Let us speculate.

    • Fortyniner

      ‘Verticulture’ – large multi-storey hydroponic ‘farms’ located near cities, waste processing (sewage) including oil or gas production if required, public space heating (bus and railway stations, malls, power stations, museums, large conservatories, markets, municipal buildings etc.), high output fish farming in artificial lakes, fermentation processes such as beer making, centralised production of warm water for domestic heating, heated pavements and roads, prevention of ice on waterways, etc. …

      • Gerard McEk

        So which of these is the most likely usage on which Rossi will try his 1MW plant do you estimate?

        • Fortyniner

          They were really just throwaway speculations for possible future applications.

          My guess is that a 1MW pilot plant will be used either for factory space heating, or to provide process heat (warm water) for some other purpose in an industrial setting – e.g., in food production, beer making, paper production, oil fractionation, chemical manufacture, etc etc. The list of uses for low grade heat in industry is endless.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, should bring down the price of pot, considerably.

        • Fortyniner

          :)!

          • MasterBlaster7

            Unless you live in Colorado

            • US_Citizen71

              The first grown for recreational use crops that should begin harvesting in the next few days will drop the price in Colorado. Up till now they have been selling excess medicinal to the recreational market. If the laws of supply and demand hold true the prices in Colorado will begin a free fall within the next month.

      • Maxfield Q Norse

        Snow removal from highways would create an entirely new market.
        Of course it would kill the old one.

        • Fortyniner

          I’m assuming a ‘Parkinsonian’ reaction to cheaper energy, i.e., uses of thermal energy expanding in direct proportion to the reduction of cost, perhaps into marginal areas verging on what would currently be viewed as ‘wasteful’.

      • bachcole

        I think that we all suffer from wild eyed idealism thanks to the potential of LENR. We already have fish farms, and the fish coming out of there and onto your dinner plate are severely deficient in EPA and DHA essential fatty acids, and probably other nutrients. This is because fish farmers are either ignorant, lazy, and/or greedy and cut corners and don’t feed their fish the proper nutrients or give their fish the proper living environment. LENR is not going to make competition go away. It is not going to make ignorance, laziness, or greed go away. People will still be fooled into buying farm raised fish because it is much cheaper. We the people will still have to develop some kind of system like the “organic” label that insures that people are eating a significantly lower level of pesticides. Perhaps “organic” farm raised fish or something. But this problem is NOT limited to fish or even food. There will still be ignorance, laziness, and greed.

        • Fortyniner

          I had in mind fast-growing warm-water species such as Tilapia being farmed in Europe and N America, but I agree that feeding any fish on waste materials from other farming activities is likely to produce nutrient deficient products containing pesticide residues. The same applies to crops supplied with simple ‘NPK’ commercial fertilisers of course, whether grown in overused soil or hyrdroponic systems, with the result that we all lack trace elements unless we also consume well designed supplements.

          However none of this will alter the fact that many new ways of producing food will inevitably become possible with cheaper energy.

          • bachcole

            And LENR will make it much easier for people to grow their own food, which will guarantee that the grower will take steps to do it right. This wil put pressure on farmers who will look to see why they are getting beaten in the market, and they will take steps to keep up with quality.

  • LuFong

    Facta, non verba.

    • Fortyniner

      Soon, hopefully.

      • Maxfield Q Norse

        mox?

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          Latin adverb: soon, quickly.
          I love this place, it reminds me of “The Name of the Rose” (Umberto Eco’s book), and Salvatore, the guy who spoke all the languages, but none. Semeiotics, fascinating subject.
          I doubt it has anything to do (in this case) with the ‘dirty’ fissile fuel…

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Heh, your name rhymes with too long

  • Curbina

    Since Today Rossi hinted to a long wait for the TPR, this will become the most interesting topic, and with many good reasons. In mercatu veritas.

  • Pierre Ordinaire

    ““According to Japanese government sources, [Japan's Mafia] Yakuza have been supplying labor to Japan’s nuclear industry since the late 90s. TEPCO and other firms have paid off yakuza groups in the past to remain silent about safety problems at their nuclear plants and other scandals.”

    http://www.japansubculture.com/the-nuclear-mafia-derails-democracy-in-japan/

    • GreenWin

      Thank you Pierre – though utterly off topic, it is good that people know about organized crime operating inside our most security-sensitive industries.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      The Yakuza is nothing compared to the damage the US did to Japan providing plans for nuclear plants with the emergency generators in the basement.

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        part of the tragedy (less than the tsunami itself)
        is that USA eforced an ideology of competition , which prevented to have a coherent technology accross Japan and thus correct all the same problems on all the japanese power plan.
        In france all the reactors are mostly the same… of course when there is a weakness identified you have to correctlit immediately, to spread the data to all the teams… but you can do that quickly.

        note that france have proposed to tepco to install sand filter… then hydrogen recombiners… they refused because of money, because as a private money they were too short with money, a little desperate…

        tchernobyl was caused by a soviet manage who desired to apply western management practice…
        Fukushima is caused by US culture imported inside a Japanse company…
        Fukushima won’t have happened if it was managed by samourai and yakuza.
        Like for cooking, be careful when mixing culture.each one is the fruit of centuries of experience.

        anyway even if it is not the tragedy that the tabloid spread, nuke is dead.
        it is not compatible with current media incompetence, and corporate culture.
        the same deliria that make LENR be ignored, make both crazy stories spread like flu, and prevent fearful corp executives to implement what the technology requires.

        let us install the last nuclear incinerator reactors to clean the bin, and jump to something our pathetic corporate and media society can manage.

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          We are not an intelligent species, I think our minds are based upon a combination of brute force methodology, and mimicking.
          One smart monkey among us out of a million is enough to set the others off on an empowered rampage. I sometimes think it may be best if we were to fail as a species.

          • georgehants

            Max, don’t be to depressed, most on these pages truly have their hearts in a good place.
            Trying to make sure that the technology is freely released for the benefit of mankind.
            In this World, an honest Website such as this brings joy and is an example perhaps of things to come, as more people demand the TRUTH from our rich and powerful masters.
            I am sue that when the Cold Fusion “proof” is fully released our beloved Admin will broaden this site to fight every example of the establishment scientific wrongdoing.
            The Internet badly needs highly moderated places where good, honest scientists can speak without being put down by the gangs of negative deniers and troublemakers.

            • Maxfield Q Norse

              Thank you that is very kind of you!
              I was not referring to this website which is more of a social experiment in my opinion. I was thinking of the true tragedies man is doing to himself and the planet.

              I have been looking for a project, perhaps I will program a self regulating website along the lines you suggest. I think with time and effort a set of rules could be developed which would allow a community to police itself without much fuss. Maybe we all become better people for such a thing.
              If I do, you were the troublemaker who started it!

              • georgehants

                Of course but I think that as Websites like this become the norm then the caring people, hopefully, will begin to change everything.
                Once people realise the Power of the Internet then there is Hope for the World at last to improve.
                Best

              • georgehants

                Max, I am sure many Good people would be right behind you.
                The World needs Honesty and Truth, something found very rarely involving capitalism, money, position etc.
                No not communism, just a new system taking the best from all areas.

              • Fortyniner

                I’ve occasionally wondered whether the ‘vote up/down’ function might be developed into such a community control mechanism (-x votes = deletion), but it would need some safeguards.

                • Omega Z

                  We already have the down vote but few use it.
                  You have to log in. And it’s not about ID’ing ones self,
                  Some of it’s technical issues. Mostly, many of us are lazy. Or Both.

                  We know that without safeguards, there are those who would visit just for the purpose of down voting with multiple handles. So then you get into using a system that can track IP’s etc. There is technology that can ID a specific computer, but I don’t know if it is available outside certain Government domains.

          • pelgrim108

            Then who is going to protect the planet from the next and coming mass extinction?
            Maybe we are doing suprisingly well for a species thats halfway along the road from animal to angel.
            Its difficult to say if we are doing good or bad if we have nothing to compare with.

          • Fortyniner

            I think you are a little harsh on H. sap. People individually are basically ‘good’ with rare exceptions who have damaged or incomplete brains. Unfortunately it is exactly these exceptions (sociopaths, psychopaths) that gravitate towards positions of power, and then exercise the power they acquire without responsibility.

            If there is a major fault with our species, it is that we are lazy. We don’t take the trouble to inform ourselves so that we can detect manipulation and false information, and we tend to follow such people as a herd without enough independent thought, leading to tragic outcomes.

            • Omega Z

              “gravitate towards positions of power”
              Definition: It’s not what you Know- It’s who you Know.
              Expanded: 2 people have a Masters Degree.
              1 is pretty sharp. 1 is friends of or has connections to the person in charge of hiring. Many times they are not 1 & the same. Who usually gets hired?
              Cronyism is a live & well at all levels.
              What’s the odds of going to Hollywood & becoming an actor. .00001%
              If Someone in you family is an actor(Parent/sibling Etc..) 100%
              Politics runs a close 2nd.

        • Anon2012_2014

          “is that USA e[n]forced an ideology of competition”

          Alain, that is just simply too much francophone hating of the Americains for being Americains.

          The Japanese were competitive industrialist from before World War II. That they went with multiple models of nuclear reactors and one failed has nothing to do with the Ugly Americains.

          Fukushima was caused by multiple engineering design errors in the reactor and its installation next to the ocean in Japan. If the plant didn’t lose external power to pump coolant, if it had been designed to withstand hot shutdown without power, if the auxiliary equipment was located 100 feet higher, if in reactor spent fuel storage area was not located where it required large amounts of water pumping after the reactor shutdown, if the plant was located in an unpopulated non-farmland location, and so on there would have been less or no catastrophic results. I use to be expert on Fukushima, now I don’t care to debate, but this has NOTHNG TO DO WITH THE AMERICAINS AND THEIR BUSINESS CULTURE.

          • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

            I agree with the technical problems identified.

            I agree that french love to bash US, as much as US love to bash french. Until soon, we are simply just more ridiculous, but at the end the Chinese will just laugh on us both.

            butFukushimat have to do with the structure of Japanese energy market which was imposed by US in japan, and I agree accepted and maybe over-interpreted by japanese government.

            One key factor on nuclear safety is the motivation structure of the workers. it have to do with capacity to dissent, obedience to safety rules, not to hierarchy, to economic problem independence.

            Japanese have a natural respect of hierarchy and a desire to please, that make it very dangerous to mix with economic incentives.

            This company should be national in japan, if not more than that.

            in France, a nearly communist country I agree, unlike soviets (a dictatorship simply), it worked so, because I agree we never obey the boss, but believe in the system, so people feel invested into a mission and in case of real trouble people dissent. US culture is good in that too, stronger in competition spirit but also in whistle blowing.

            moreover the competition in nuclear design should be moderate as each design need massive experience to be safe. there should be a small number of various design. This is not compatible with usual competition laws.

            Fukushima reactor design was bad, but only few of them were so… Tepco was one of the many commercial company, short with money, pressured by market and government to power the country, they refused to correct a major problems…

            when the accident started, they were so afraid to lose their reactor, that they refused desperate solution. they were also so japanese proud they refused help, add to that 20000 real dead in their family and neighouring…

            Nuclear energy is not a classic technology which can tolerate corrections by catastrophes as it happen with most business.

            It need a tuned culture of safety, mixing strict obedience to safety rules and ability to report immediately serious problems and management errors… what is taught in the army : obey but report.

            what is funny is that Toyota have been successful in fostering internal critics and improvement, but visibly the Japanese nuclear industry is plagued with crazy desire to respect target, deadlines…

            maybe is that not US it self who “forced” that competition structure, but the japanese government, who tried to respect the invader fashion, creating multiple companies where one could do the job…

            If I’m convinced that France is falling in ruin because of refusing competition, there are very very few domain where it really have to be managed… nuclear is in competition with others energy, with safety agencies, they don’t need to compete like pepsi/coca…

            Nuke is not a normal market.

            I don’ critic any of the culture, but the way culture are mixed by people who follow fashion and don’t understand the inner coherence of each… obedience, dissidence, commitment, competition, each have to be coherent with the other.

            • Anon2012_2014

              Alain,

              Having spent time in all 3 countries, I have to say that the Japanese business culture is what it is, and that in addition to the poor design (which was mostly in my opinion the fault of poor GE engineering design), they do have an almost unnatural respect for their seniors in business. This no doubt inhibited the response, up to and including the panic measure to pump sea water into the reactor core to cool it.

              I see this as having NOTHING to do with American business culture. GE and Tepco design teams botched the engineering of the plant and its installation.

              • Broncobet

                Yes their culture played a large part in the failure ,while our culture is well suited to keeping us safe. Nuclear power is safe,but it could be much safer with the future designs,where you could not in your mind,with terrorists or meteors come up with a way that would be dangerous. All plants should be walk away safe, with no humans it closes down. If AR comes through with a tenth of what he has promised,the need for additional energy fall.

              • Omega Z

                I see a different issue.
                Highly educated people with little real world experience. Everything done by book learning.
                As an example. You receive 7 inches of rain per month. They don’t allow that you may receive all of it within a single day or sometimes hours. Thus, You have flooding in the streets. They designed the sewers to small.

                In New Orleans, The Generators were in the hospital basement. That was there answer of negating the need of transporting Fuel to the roof. Similarly, They placed flood pumps below flood level.
                Was it the fuel tanks at Fukushima flooded or the Generators(or both).
                Also, I always love when building floor plans call for fire extinguisher’s placed next to the heating system in case of fire. It may be handy, but non accessible when needed.

                A Laymen with life experience & a little common sense would have been like-
                Wait, What? You’re going to put them where?

                Note: Some of these people work their way thru school & gain life experience, But many don’t. As you say, They botch it.

    • Broncobet

      The Japanese,are like us in this regard,we glamourize our crimals at times.It is true that they were involved in the clean up until an member of the press reported it. It is a perfect job for the poor people they recruit, but every one was taking a slice of their pay check. I would do it if I was over there,they don’t let you get too much radiation so for a lot of them a one day job. Remember in Japan ,the whole society has a collective consciousness, this makes for team work which is good but stifles criticisms ,which led to the accident.

      • Omega Z

        “glamorize our criminals”
        Yeah, Well, I don’t think much our politicians, Let alone glamorize them. :-)

  • George N

    I hope the ecat public display will be the steam engine of the chatanooga chu-chu — all aboard!

    • GreenWin

      “People get ready… There’s a train a comin’ – you don’t need no ticket, you jus get on board!”