Rossi Prepares for 1MW Plant Visits

While we wait for the all-important 3rd party report to be published, there’s apparently a parallel track taking place which should help provide important information about the E-Cat to the world. I’m referring to the preparation by Andrea Rossi and Industrial heat for making a 1 MW plant available for observation and inspection by ‘allowed persons’. There has been a bit of discussion about this on the Journal of Nuclear Physics recently and Rossi has provided a little information about what to expect.

This plant will be a working plant, not a demonstration model. Rossi has said that it is an industrial 1 MW plant housed in the factory of a customer, that it is in continuous operation, and that it is apparently doing useful work for profit. Rossi says that he is not allowed to provide any information beyond that, but that details about the plant will be released and made available for visitors.

As far as when this plant will be able to be visited, Rossi has said:

“We will communicate the date of the opening of the visits in due time: I want not to give now a date, because this topic is very delicate, and if I give a date I must be sure of it. But a date will be given, for sure. I am working now only focused on this !!!”

I will say that I have been given assurances in response to a request that I will be on the list of invitees, and hopefully will be an early visitor. To my mind, this development will be as important as the publication of the 3rd party report. While the observation of a plant in action does not provide the same type of information that can be gathered by testing an E-Cat in a controlled environment over time, being able to see the plant in operation in an industrial setting is very important.

The fact that the plant is being used by a customer to do actual work is important, too. I’m hoping that the customer will be able to share data regarding energy usage, costs, savings, performance, etc. That would be very significant information for the public and press — and highly useful for Industrial Heat as they begin to market the E-Cat.

So far there is no information about the timing of this event, or location. My guess is that it will be somewhere close to IH Headquarters — perhaps in the North Carolina Research Triangle area, but I suppose the customer could be anywhere.

  • Omega Z

    If you individualize everything, the number of e-cats needed increase exponentially. A 10Kw E-cat is nothing. My N-gas cook stove produces about 30% more heat then an E-cat.

    I have a small home About 1K sq-ft. I need at least 2 E-cats just to heat or cool it. Well, not cool it. The heat absorption chiller would cost as much as a car.(There about the size of a side by side Refrigerator for the main unit) Likewise for an electrical generating system and additional E-cats to produce it… The technology for private use just isn’t ready yet.
    A 30 year transition is conservative.

    A Good Bench Mark is Wind & Solar. 2050 to transition “most” of the system over. You just under estimate the scale of the task. Basically were starting from scratch. Everything has yet to be designed.
    3 to 6 years just to start building factories.

  • GreenWin

    Interesting Tech’s BBall losing streak began about the same time they attacked Pons & Fleischmann. Karma, or just a lousy BBall team? Either way geeks don’t jump.

  • Omega Z

    Your assuming we can replace everything in a short time.
    It will take 30 years or more to do that.
    You assume E-cat power plants will be cheap. They will cost the same or more them Fossil plants. Only the energy they produce will be cheaper.
    If we have individual E-cats, You over value the output of an E-cat. Every home will need at least (5) or more.
    Your thinking hundreds of millions. It will require somewhere around 50 Billion E-cats to supply the world.
    Individuals only use 1/3rd of the energy in the world. 2/3rds is for Business & industry.

    If people want cheaper energy costs, the best way to provide that is to have small power plants setup at each city. If you put all this in individual homes, It will cost more then you pay now. The hardware is not cheap & Hugh demand will only force those prices higher.

    • bachcole

      Of course you are calculating and imagining based upon the size and power of E-Cats as they are now. Once millions of engineers and scientists worldwide focus upon LENR+, who knows what the size, power, and cost of the units will be. Who knows what metals will be discovered to work, especially once we know how it works. Heck, when we know how it works, there may be ceramics that will go to much higher temperatures.

      • Omega Z

        I fully expect Larger scale E-cats. Possibly 100Kw units. But solving 1 problem just creates others, so they will be used according to task. Not scale. In many cases, you may find smaller is better. It allows for output modulation. Also, You can change individual Reactor cores with out a complete shutdown. That prevents the service tech from charging you for a jump start or having to invest 1K’s in a backup generator. :-)

        While following this saga I have read of another metal of interest which would lead to higher temps, But costs substantially more then nickel. However, again that would be niche market. Nickel temps are more then adequate. The turbines have their own heat limits.

        We have to keep in mind that the E-cat is just a heating element similar to what you find in an electric water heater. A small part of a whole. The Whole has yet to be designed & built.
        Most haven’t grasped this part yet. They let their excitement get a head of reality. It’s positive or negative. All they see at the moment is the positive. The negatives haven’t hit home yet And there are many.

        Rossi has dropped a couple hints. You can connect your e-cat inline with your present heating system.”It will supplement, Not replace your present heating system” I believe you live in Colorado. You will need at least 2 e-cats for heat.

        Rossi mentioned a 1Mw E-cat boiler with 72 reactors. a couple of these are backup in case some should quit working. Umm, Sounds like the 10Kw reactor would be producing about 15Kw in this system.
        So I agree, Improvements will change things, But Ultimately, I don’t see any big changes in the transition at this point. I claim caveats.

  • Omega Z

    I understand that your anxious. How do you think they feel???

    Everyday that their not building products, their losing money. Actually not only losing money, But Spending Money.
    I’m sure their anxiety level far exceeds ours & their doing as much as possible as fast as possible.

    We also need to keep in mind that with people’s disposition about CF/LENR that a false start roll out would be disastrous for the technology and the E-cat is pretty much worthless until you have a product to put it in. It may even still be under development.

    It’s highly probable that a lot of things are going on behind closed doors. Announcing it before their ready serves no purpose other then it would be distracting, even time delaying. People having to talk to & explain things rather then working on getting the product ready for market. I’m sure the last thing their doing is intentionally delaying anything.

    I would like to see all nuclear plant building stopped as soon as LENR hits the market do to the forever hazard.
    But as far as wasted projects. It wont be wasted. Most if not all will be needed & used for their full life cycle. It’s going to take that long to transition. Billions & billions & billions of E-cats. Then it’ll be time to start over.

    • kdk

      “I would like to see all nuclear plant building stopped as soon as LENR hits the market do to the forever hazard.”

      Amen, there’s no good reason to use fission if you have cold fusion. It may have a lower energy density per mass fuel, but the lack of long lasting radioactive waste is clearly superior, not to mention not having to worry about meltdowns…

  • Omega Z

    All I can do is go by what Focardi stated in a Video interview.
    That the secret was Rossi’s & he Didn’t Want to know it. Personally, I think if Rossi didn’t share that with Focardi, Focardi had a very good Idea. He was Brilliant enough to figure it out. Likely he didn’t want people hounding him to tell them what it was. That’s what I would do. Focardi also stated that Rossi had a working device before he became involved. Rossi just wanted him to verify the excess heat or disprove it. Was there an Error in measurements or what? Focardi couldn’t disprove it.

    As to the wave form, That would be in the hardware(Control Box) and controlled by the software. Rossi was hands on. There would be no secret to this. Probably not hard for someone in the field to figure out. Thus the Reason Rossi was so protective as to people looking inside the Box. Components involved would give it away.

    If you were to say Focardi was Instrumental in Improving the E-cat, I would agree 1000%. I think he saved Rossi years of research. I think he was very instrumental in developing a theory that led to major improvements, Primarily in it’s control. But to say this could be kept secret is silly. I can’t see Rossi building a control box not knowing what components he installed & exactly what they do & what purpose they serve. In fact, these things would be fundamental in advancing the device.

    Question is do I believe a person with a friend of a friend of the family(which is 4 steps away) or Focardi’s statements.
    The Problem is when people see $$$ signs, Everyone wants their share. Even when it isn’t theirs. They will say anything. They get Crazy.
    People talk of a Trillion dollar Industry, yet Rossi see’s $20 Million. That is the reality. But people only see the Trillions. I had employees that thought like that. Greed knows no boundaries.

    NOTE: People don’t despise Theories. Only those who put Theory above the facts. Facts beat Theory. But Theory in context is good. It’s a tool for understanding facts which allow us to improve on them.

  • Omega Z

    Guru

    You find a cure for cancer.
    It will take years to build the facilities for use in this cure.
    It will take years to disseminate the knowledge & train Doctors & technicians to implement this cure.

    Do You discontinue the current treatments.
    Or do you continue them until the new treatment is available.
    Answer: You will continue as usual implementing the new treatment as it becomes available. First at just a few facilities gradually spreading.

    The LENR transition will take decades to implement.
    Nuclear Plants about ready to fire up. Will continue. Only those in early stages will be stopped. The same for most fossil Plants. As with solar & wind. All of these systems will operate most or all of their natural life-cycle’s.

  • Ophelia Rump

    That is one way of looking at it, another way is that they will run this down the path of least resistance so that hostile actions are near to impossible.

    That would be good for mankind, providing the plan is to put this in the hands of everyone, and not for the ultimate financial benefit of a few who would suck the world dry for the sake of their own over-inflated sense of self worth. The planet sized ticks are far too bloated already, we are at a point where the mass of the parasitic rich is greater than the rest of humanity in a financial sense. We must believe there are good people among the rich, and that perhaps this time all of humanity might benefit.
    This could truly be a revolution.

  • GreenWin

    Andy, care to cite your sources for your latest claim re: “deep academic theory that many people so despise”? Your earlier answer, “Let’s just say a friend of a friend… etc” is hearsay. Not very rigorous for a CalTech grad.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I think he would know best if he is despised. Point goes to Andy.

  • Bernie777

    When will we hear from IH? If the test is positive enough we should hear from them shortly after publication. Agreed?

    • Ophelia Rump

      We will hear from IH when IH is ready to sell product.
      I seriously doubt that the results of the test will have any impact on that.
      We may get a teaser to go with along with the paper, to peak interest.
      I doubt they will dilute the impact of the report by making a simultaneous big announcement.

      If they are ready for production, meaning fully tooled, manned, and have materials inventory. Then I would expect to hear the big announcement about being in production and opening sales, when they think the news of the report has reached the peak of it’s impact, to capitalize on the momentum. Or it could be months.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Rossi has said that there will be a press conference as soon as the 3rd party report is published. By the way, his last comment on JoNP dates from June 11th – maybe something’s up?

        • Ophelia Rump

          Thank you, I will look forward to that!

  • Andy Kumar

    While waiting for the TIP, we should keep in mind that Rossi is a businessman and is used to making “forward looking” statements. We cannot really say that he is lying or stringing people along.

    I think Rossi has cashed his IP for a decent sum of $12M and now truly independent scientists are working on the cat in collaboration with Focardi’s family who owns the secret waveform. The TIP will be a scientific report. Commercial uses are decades away.

    • GreenWin

      Andy, care to cite your sources substantiating your last claim?? The Industrial Heat management and investors might be interested.

      • Omega Z

        I have Zero confidence in his statement. Rossi had the prize prior to inviting Focardi(For Cash) to prove his results wrong. I don’t understand someone stating this when we have words in print & video’s that prove Rossi & Focardi became very close friends. Ridiculous Me Thinks.

      • psi2u2

        Yes, please do share. Who has made you, Andy, the oracle of IH?

    • Bernie777

      It bothers me when people state how much Rossi has heen paid for his IP. The stated amount could be a small down payment if royalties are part of the contract, and I bet they are.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Decades away, then what are they going to do with the factory they just built?

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      “Commercial uses are decades away.”

      ‘Decades’ from now, patents (if ever issued) will have expired. It didn’t take decades for the auto and airplane and the ecat will probably be much simpler. It didn’t take Rockefeller decades to displace whale oil. It didn’t take cell phones decades to bury MaBell.

      Remember, radical Islam is providing a nice tailwind.

  • Freethinker

    I am amazed with you people complaining about what “Rossi says”.

    Read his blog, or derivative thereof, at own risk. Do understand that the blog is his, and he writes all kinds of things there, like his worries, his desires, his hopes, sometimes his plans, and sometimes speculation or most of the times simple answers to peoples questions. At times he likely use the blog to his ends, but mostly it is simply a short answer channel.

    Many things Rossi has said has come to pass, one way or another, at one point in time or another. Many things has also failed to materialize.

    You cannot use the blog against him in the perpetual accusation of scam. It is your own fault you take it so literately.

    My bet is as follows:
    There will be a report, within a month. There will be a semi-public demo for a select group of people, somewhat coinciding with that report. Possibly there will be announcements from Industrial Heat and the customer (Duke Energy?) at the same time.

    • psi2u2

      Yes, the “Rossi only says” meme is getting pretty frayed around the edges. What have the people who keep saying “Rossi only says,” DONE? Nothing but complained.

      • Daniel Maris

        Well effectively it is now Rossi and IH say isn’t it? IH can hardly pretend they aren’t connected to Rossi’s statements about what is going on with E Cat development.

        • psi2u2

          Exactly, which goes to the point that Rossi has DONE plenty, by any reasonable estimation.

    • blanco69

      Understood. However one must take care not to disregatd all the Rossi says that haven”t come to pass, ( and there are many ) and focus only on the Rossi says that can be rationalised by our own hopes and dreams. You should never completely close the door on skeptism until there’s an ecat powering your life.

    • Fortyniner

      We can probably expect to see a lot more of this kind of contrived negativism from unfamiliar and grammatically-challenged commenters as we get closer to some very important developments.

      The shills don’t have a lot to go with any more, but that won’t stop them trying to bash the cr*p out of all the old familiar refrains in a (hopefully) final attempt to muddy the water beforehand.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Bravo! Well spoken, well conceived.

  • bitplayer

    Re the spate of completely ignorant skeptical comments; do we need to get out the fly swatter again?

    • Ophelia Rump

      If they are shills, then I like their style because whoever is paying them is throwing their money away on vacuous grunts of impatience and self indulgence.

    • Daniel Maris

      You mean censorship? If that’s what you mean, why don’t you say it – loud and proud!

      • Ophelia Rump

        Garbage is garbage. If you don’t throw it out, you are hoarding.
        I dislike censorship, but if a post is a taunt, it has no content. There is nothing to censor.

      • bitplayer

        I’m thinking back to when ecatworld was getting spillover from the rossiskepticsRus.com site that imploded right after the March ’13 report. Frank did his usual excellent job of filtering the truly useless posts. At the same time, I like to think that the rest of the community did a good job of calling out the skeptopaths to the point that they stopped having fun and went away.

        Sigh…

      • Omega Z

        umm, I understand what he is saying. There’s been a recent increase of certain types of posts. We have been expecting this haven’t we. As the Report date gets closer, Preemptive action. I expect more to come.

    • Omega Z

      bitplayer
      I’ve noticed the increase. Not surprised. Report day is getting close & their preparing to pounce on it. The comments of which you speak is just laying the ground work.

      Before the battle, you send in the pretend collaborators, saboteur’s & spies. We will see more of this.

  • kasom

    counting on what A.R. has said shortly before, he is focussed on the 1 MW HOT-cat!!

    So, if the working customer installation is indeed a 1 MW HOT-cat, it is new tech not the old blue container.

    That would really be a breaking news!

    I wish all the best fpor him, IH, us here and mankind!!

    • Ophelia Rump

      I could not imagine why he would test with anything but the best he has available.
      So I agree with you on this, I also think it will be some formalized version of the Hot-Cat. The original looked cobbled together. I expect the final version to look a little more manufactured and optimized.

      • Buck

        Ophelia,

        Rossi was clear that the TIP evaluation team was working with the most up-to-date design of the Hot-Cat..

        • Ophelia Rump

          Thank you Buck.

        • Fortyniner

          It was the most up to date design 8 or 9 months ago when testing began. This was probably also the design that was used to built another prototype 1MW unit to lease out, probably to an investor subsidiary, for ‘field’ testing. (This may be the ‘pilot’ plant we hope to learn more about soon).

          Since then though IH’s R&D people will probably have worked through a number of designs in intensive parallel testing regimes, and the latest units – the ones that will go on sale or more likely be offered for lease at some point – could be very much more advanced.

          • Buck

            49R,

            this issue was a point of discussion here on ECW about 3 months ago as it was something Rossi had just brought up on JONP. I took Rossi at his word.

  • bachcole

    I am unsure of your definition of skeptic, but I said that for 19 months or so. I did not disbelieve him. I neither believed nor disbelieved him. This is a difference.

  • Ophelia Rump

    That is not skepticism, that is denial of reality.
    Were you hiding in a potato storage locker for the last two years?

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Rumor is, Rossi in early negotiations to buy the Miami Heat. :)

  • Omega Z

    If you’re talking about his open sourcing TESLA Technology, It’s a Trojan Horse..
    You can use his TESLA Technology for Free. With Hugh Caveats.

    You have to meet all his high standards. Basically a Clone of his format without variations. At least not without consultations with Tesla. I’m sure Musk will avoid spending a fortune in Patent Wars as he has Stated, BUT- The Rest Of The Story

    Elon Musk is no fool. It appears he’s helping his competition & at the same time avoiding Patent Wars with them. Where in fact, he’s helping himself. He is betting Billions on his Technology.

    Presently, you have VHS, BETA, and other Formats.
    TESLA wants to be the VHS of Formats even if that means helping the competition. He’s protecting his Billions in Investments. Which, If he becomes the BETA of the Industry are worth Squat…

    I have respect for Musk, But, Be aware of the Spin. This is Business Pure and Simple….

    • Ophelia Rump

      I wonder if a competitor with a conflicting patent will sue him for destruction of his patents value by making it public. If those same people do not like sharing as much, Musk will have a problem sooner rather than later.

      • Omega Z

        As far as devaluing a competitors Patent, I don’t know of any such legal standing. Tesla owns it’s patents & can do as they wish with them. Make it cheaper to license or give it away. It would be no different then a competitor developing a better product that devalues your product. You wouldn’t win in a case of law. This doesn’t mean someone wouldn’t file a suit. But they better have money to throw away in legal fee’s. Both-Theirs & Yours when they lose.

        Tesla would still need to fight a patent war if a competitor claimed Tesla’s patent infringed on theirs.

        TESLA has a Hugh wall of patents. More or Less, What Musk has said is if you follow his standards, His business model on deployment of charging stations, etc, TESLA will not take sic their Patent Lawyers on you for infringing. Its Open Source with caveats. It even covers possible future changes by collaboration.

        You can copy it, Build it, Market it. You just have to follow his rules.
        It’s a shrewd business plan. He’s forcing a standard for everyone to use. Very Similar to certain computer connectors. He’s betting that he can compete on an even playing field Verses Another format where his technology gets pushed to the side & all his investment with it as happened to the Beta video format.

        This is a plus for the consumer. Regardless what Charging system you plug into, It’ll be standard. You wont have to drive on down the road looking for your version. An Alternative route would be the Government deciding what system becomes standard. The Governments plan would be determined by who made the biggest campaign contributions. Not necessarily the best technology.. Who do you trust more. Them or Musk.

        As to Open Source. There are many. You can make a “near” perfect $50 knock off of a $10K designer purse. It’s Legal. Just don’t include their Specialty Components like their patented clasp Or their LOGO.
        This applies to designer cloths, shoes and a ton of other things.
        Of course this doesn’t eliminate lawsuits which can break you. But it’s legal.

        • Ophelia Rump

          I agree with you if he supplies an actual standard. If he supplies bits and pieces then he is just inviting loose partnerships to join a coalition.
          That would be more of a PR stunt, the season is young his business is always good theater.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, From what I understand they will have full access to his technology.

            Tom More made his post about a news article on Musk open sourcing.
            I only commented on it because of the spin factor.
            It’s not open sourced in the truest sense most people understand it, “Free to all” But a shrewd & probably Brilliant business plan. Especially when the news puts the proper spin on it. The details were there but not emphasized. Kind of nonchalant.

  • Anon2012_2014

    1 MW Plant visit. By whom and under what terms. Can anything be measured going in or coming out?

    This plant visit is PR release noise. I want the scientific report that closes the loopholes, not another PR stunt.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Take a deep breath. It’s OK they can do both.

  • Obvious

    I hope his patois is better than his typed Mafioso accent I saw on an old post somewhere.
    I almost cried tears for Italy while I was reading it….

  • Pierre Ordinaire

    GreenWin says:

    ““A group of Italian and US scientists, from the Sbara Institute for Cancer Research at Temple University in Philadelphia, found that 30 years of the Camorra Mafia disposing toxic refuse in the area north of Naples were to blame for breast cancer rates 47percent above the national average, while another study found birth defects were 80 percent above the norm.”

    These is guys Rosie tangled with 20 years ago. Geez.

    http://rt.com/news/mafia-toxic-waste-army-937/

    • US_Citizen71

      Well, you reap what sow!

      • bitplayer

        So, all people who are abused by organized crime somehow deserve that?

        • US_Citizen71

          Strawman alert!!!

  • GreenWin

    Focus supporters are worried about CF “magic and witchcraft” — suggesting a not altogether scientific mindset. Best of luck.

  • mcloki

    Lots of room at the table. I’ll use the same retort people use to knock Rossi. Can Focus fusion boil a cup of tea with it yet?

  • Fortyniner

    Admin – comments seem to be going missing all over this thread.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks 49er. I will look into it.

    • ecatworld

      The comments are all here but they show up near the very bottom of this thread since they were replies to comments in an earlier conversation.