Rossi on His Anxiety Over E-Cat Test Results

Here’s a comment on the Journal of Nuclear Physics by Andrea Rossi that I found interesting — in response to a question by Giuliano Bettini who asked Rossi about the source of his anxiety regarding the upcoming tests. Giuliano asked Rossi whether he was nervous because a) he was afraid that negative test results would undermine all his work, or that b) these new tests might reveal that there had been a fundamental misunderstanding, and all his work was based on an illusion. To both those questions, Rossi responded ‘no, it is not'; then went on to say:

The anxiety is generated by the immense importance of a test made by a third independent party of experts of the field, in a neutral laboratory, for a long time, collecting millions of data examined for months, analyzed in independent laboratories of different Universities, for the first time in the history of LENR. Let me make a simple example: you have to sustain an exam , a difficult one, in a University’s Faculty; you have studied well, you made tests by yourself, you are sure to have understood the matter, but the exam is long and the result of the exam will be important for your future career: shouldn’t you be anxious? That’s my feeling, aggravated from the fact that I have not a clue of when there will be the results and I have not a clue either about the work that the Professors are doing.

Rossi seems to see this report as being a monumental and watershed moment for his work — in fact he characterizes the test as being the most exhaustive one ever carried out in the history of LENR in terms of the amount of time, work and analysis being done by an independent party.

His example about an exam is a good one, I think. Even if you may have done meticulous preparation for an important test, until you get the results back there’s always going to be an element of suspense about the outcome. You might wonder about the mindset of the examiners — how critical they might be, and how competent they might be. I suppose Rossi might be concerned about exactly what testing has been done, possible mistakes being made by the testers, about the quality of instrumentation being used, and other factors that might affect the outcome.

Rossi also probably realizes the importance of this testing from the point of view of Industrial Heat’s business plan, and if there are problems, how that might affect commercialization and industrialization of the E-Cat.

So while Rossi may be confident regarding his discovery, there are plenty of things to be worried about — and I guess that observers like ourselves might be feeling similar (albeit lesser) levels of concern for some of the same reasons.

  • oaklandthinktank

    Not so. They may feel superior, and justify their wealth by saying ‘you may be smart enough to write fancy equations, but I’m smart enough to make gobs of money.’ However, if Rossi’s theory is wrong, there is a real risk that SOMEONE ELSE’s theory is right. Why throw money at the front-runner on the first mile of an ultramarathon? If they realize that Swartz, Brillouin, or (?!) Black-Light turn out to be correct, their patents trump Rossi, and their work could yield a much higher COP. In particular, my money is on Swartz. Rossi could come forward with a COP 12 device, and get funds for converting aging coal-fire plants, but if Swartz has a breakthrough in stabilization and ignition, miniaturization and mass-production, gets a COP of 80, won’t those investors feel stupid?

    (If swartz can leap-frog the cheap chip fabs used for cell phone SIM cards, he could grab a HUGE early lead…*wink*)

  • Omega Z

    Maybe you answered my question as to why Rossi has changed his talking points. He no longer subscribes to the COP, but energy in verses Energy out.

    It would be much more accurate for what you propose then COP, As it still consumes energy. It would not be infinite COP.

  • Owen Geiger

    You’re joking, right? Solid evidence from multiple independent Swedish labs that supports Rossi’s theory could leverage billions of dollars in additional investments. Billions with a B. People just can’t wrap their heads around LENR. Is it real or a hoax? They want to know how it works. Positive results that fit Rossi’s theory would be Nobel winning stuff.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I disagree, the disbelievers will not be convinced and it is a waste of breath trying.

    They must be swept away and silenced by the stark new reality.

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

    Click the rumor button to see how the current rumors would impact my assessment of the pending report. You have my permission. Use at your own risk.

  • Mats Hilmersson

    I hope the report will be heavily delayed by thorough isotope analysis and prereviews made by all kind of prominent sceptics that the examiners can find. When it’s finally released, it’s of fundamental importance that it’s embraced by a critical mass of previous sceptics. Otherwise it will go the same way as last years report and all other positive LENR reports: total ignorance since the consensus outside ECW is that cold fusion/LENR researchers and examiners are pseudo scientists.

  • Owen Geiger

    Rossi knows the reactor did not melt down during the latest test. He almost certainly knows the approximate COP from in-house tests or from someone who leaked the info. (Ex: someone could have sent him 18 donuts by home delivery. Just kidding.)

    Here’s what I believe is causing his anxiety. Rossi has said he believes he understands how the reactor works. Current analysis of the ash is being done to help verify Rossi’s theory and help get patent approval and investment $. What if these tests on the ash, which are completely out of his control, turn up unexpected results that don’t fit his theory? That would throw a big wrench in the E-Cat patent process, financial backing from investors and industrial roll out.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      This is as well my main concern. It would be best it they had found helium, or at least some uncommon nickel isotopes and other elements like copper and zinc, together with the typical signs of nuclear reactions, such as gammas or neutrons. If there were no such findings or not enough in order to explain the amount of anomalous heat, then one would have to assume that there is a novel, hitherto unknown type of reaction (either nuclear or not). From a scientific point of view, such a result would be extremely interesting, but at the same time it would raise many doubts, also with regard to the safety of Rossi’s devices.

      • Owen Geiger

        Also note, Rossi said his reactor does not violate known physics. Unexpected findings could cause major delays.

        • Fortyniner

          That particular statement has always seemed to me to be rather unlikely to be true. It may have been part of an effort to downplay the significance of his discovery until the time is right for that.

          As you imply, and as others have pointed out, there is a possibility that the test results may suggest that nuclear processes are involved, making safety certification potentially very difficult even in an industrial environment.

          Rossi will be aware that in this case his reactors may then automatically fall under legislation controlling nuclear devices, and be subject to fairly extreme regulation. This would probably mean that the technology could be appropriated by the nuclear industry, as no-one else would be permitted to develop it – a very undesirable outcome for all concerned.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            IMO, something unknown that you cannot explain would be much more difficult to accept for the authorities (and for patent examiners as well), even if no potentially harmful radiation had been measured. As long as existing radiation could be easily shielded (low energy gammas or slow neutrons), there should be no problem in the case of industrial applications, as long as politicians accept that LENR technology includes huge economic advantages. However, there is still the danger that certain interest groups will try to influence the responsible persons. A lot of educational work might be necessary to prevent that, and at least I’m optimistic that Tom Darden is the right person for this job.

          • Omega Z

            Peter
            Rossi also provided some additional info wiyh that statement.
            Something to the effect of just better understanding of some principals or in my words, a fleshing out of whats already known.
            ahh, Semantics. New is new. Adjustments are adjustments.
            It still changes what is known physics.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      What’s the source of the number 18 which popped up in the thread, does somebody know? Is it some actual firsthand rumour or just some outsider’s wild guess?

      • Owen Geiger

        A rumor leaked of around 18 COP for the test. See previous comments on this blog.

      • Omega Z

        It popped up on 22-passi. Then was deleted.
        I only heard about it, but was of the impression it came from Daniele Passerini. At least according to a sarcastic comment he posted.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Thanks. Speculazione on theme: 3*6=18, cat cop=6, mouse cop=3, 2013 March test was mouse only.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I like the 18 donuts thing, I think that bit of fancy should become a legend of the story some day.

      • Owen Geiger

        Imagine if the guy taking the order misunderstood and sent 80 donuts instead of 18.

  • Omega Z

    “being able to shape fuel while it is in mist form”

    Apparently Great Minds think alike. NO, Not Me.

    It’s just that I read an article not long ago of a researcher proposing the same thing. No Don’t ask, I don’t have a link & don’t remember who or where.

    • friendlyprogrammer

      I was thinking it could make fuel travel faster to where it needs to go among other benefits, but find it interesting.

      Could Cymatic effect Widom Larsen Theory and increase the “Droplets” of Hydrogen that form on the Nickel. Replacing some interior hydrogen with standing sound waves?

  • Omega Z

    FP, You make me laugh. :-)
    Your better half does the shopping right.
    $30 will buy you a birthday cake if you don’t get to fancy with it.
    $40 dollars will get your 60`x60` lawn mowed. Trimming is extra.
    For $150 I’ll sweat 4 copper lines, vacuum it down & release the Charge in you new AC. My Friends tell me that fee is sooo 10 years ago. Sounds about right. It’s been at least that long since I did one.

    No offense intended. But it’s more complex then it’s appearance tends to show. 310 steel & tungsten are not cheap And it appears they need to be precisely machined for a pressed fit. I’m not sure of what coils are used for the heating element, But they would be expensive for 1100/1400`C use as cheaper ones would be short lived.
    I’d ballpark the controls at a couple 100, Software would be a big problem for controls. I know your profession, but the control parameters are unknown. Likely trial & error to a specific device design.

    Something many here have overlooked is the fuel charge. You don’t refill it, You replace the entire core. Their hermetically sealed I presume to avoid any possibility of leaking. Whether to avoid functional problems or safety/toxicity, I’m not sure. Maybe both. Regardless, It’s replaced every 6 months. And the fuel itself would be problematic. What is & does it take to make it useable. Also very toxic.

    Anyway, There are many things people could do or make for themselves. They don’t because they don’t have the expertise or the Materials/Labor/Equipment required far exceed the cost to just buy one. If I have equipment that can produce a part in hours, How can I compete with a manufacturer who has equipment that can do it in minutes.

    Rules & regulations are additional issues. I imagine a home built un-certified device of this nature would null/void you homeowners insurance for starters.

    All this said, I’m sure a few tinkers will build some devices. A few of them may actually build some that work, But I’d guess this would be a novelty DIY task. Not to sell & make a living. They couldn’t compete.

    And I doubt Rossi/I.H. are concerned about this as long as they can’t be held liable. Businesses are another Issue & the lawyers would be all over them.

    Another problem would be the necessity to custom build any add-ons. Where mass produced products are standardized & after market components built to fit.

    • friendlyprogrammer

      People who manufacture illegal goods in bulk are always around. I recall getting some fake NIKE’s in my youth for $10 and they lasted a day.

      I am not proposing anyone will build a better Ecat today. I am saying that once the catalyst is learned you will see a hundred inventors try this at home.

      Once the Ecats are for sale and prototypes are being dissected in every major University then replication becomes easier. I am sure there will be thousands of manufacturers too willing to manufacture and sell kits with all of the specifications.

      Replacing the core is not new. In 1972 a U.C.L.A. team built an automobile to compete in a ‘clean air’ race. Using a stock gasoline
      engine, they lowered its compression rate and made a
      few alterations to allow for a greater heat build-up.
      Next, they recirculated part of the exhaust gas to
      decrease the excess oxygen and slow the combustion
      process slightly. The result was a success. The only
      real problem was in the bulky. quickly exhausted
      tanks of fuel. Billings Energy Research of Provo, Utah, solved the
      bulky tank problem a couple of years later when they
      built a hydride storage system. Hydrogen is
      chemically locked in powdered iron titanium and is
      released when heat from the engines’ cooling fluid
      warms it.

      So Rossi is not the first to rid himself of cumbersome Hydrogen Tanks and this concept is over 50 years old. Replacing the entire core is also a nifty way Rossi plans on keeping the catalyst private as long as he can.

      I cannot imagine how anybody could not expect LENR to be mass produced on the black market. They are not contraband so anybody that makes one can tell the police it is a toaster and they would care less. Airport dogs will not care if you take the parts through security.

      Imagine that LENR was proven tomorrow (possible with report due). The entire world hears a new Pons/Fleischmann type media release where the ecat is named larger than Captain Crunch.

      Suddenly billions would want an ecat and even if Rossi could produce 100 000 Ecats per month it would still take them over a thousand years to make several billion.

      Would you wait on a waiting list for 1000-1600+ years?

      I suppose I am exaggerating to a point, but the above figures are decent. With 7 billion plus people on the planet I assume 2 billion would give each family an ecat, although some families will want them for their cars also.

      Now your neighbor downloaded the ecat instructions online and can assemble a kit in an hour and is 1/100 the cost of the Rossi device.

      Name almost any product and there are people making illegal versions of it.

      The heating coils inside the Ecat are not even needed. Rossi has told us that there are various ways of heating the internal contents including gas/flame.

      When Rossi first sells his Ecat he will have the market to himself, but after a year I predict (and have for years now) that this will be the most copied product in history of black market products.

      There will be hundreds of unemployed Solar/Wind/Hot Fusion scientists too happy to build you a Ecat for a few quid.

      You are also suggesting add-ons will not fit. Try going to the store and buying a Controller for your Playstation. You may be surprised to see a number of manufacturers (aside from Sony) make controllers for the Playstation. It is not hard to adapt products to existing technology. These companies did not ask Sony for specs, they simply bought controllers and dissected them and recreated them.

      The Rossi device may be a fancy container, but it is still just a container with less moving parts than a dollar store flashlight.

  • Omega Z

    Plus collaboration with Toyota.

  • Omega Z

    Considering Rossi’s considerable experience(Years) with his own invention & he still has difficulties with it, I doubt it is so easy as many think.
    Someone posted to Rossi that the Reactor seemed so simple to build.
    Rossi said I don’t find it so simple-(But so as not to offend he stated) But I could be wrong.
    Note many still speak of copper pipe. The H-cat has no copper pipe.

  • Hope4dbest

    I fail to see why so much expectation about this test. Rossi could not have been clearer: In Mercatu Veritas. He is telling us in no uncertain terms that the proof is going to be a) an Ecat for sale or b) public access to the 1 MW plant.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I think most of us expect there to be more happening than just a test report.
      I do not expect the media to accept the report, but by god the academic community will get a good dust-up.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The masses do not purchase factories, they do not license rights to manufacture technologies from companies. They are not the first to know.

  • jousterusa

    On the MIT tests that sank P&F, the problem as I understand it was that the testers ignored advice that said the palladium had to be loaded to 90% deuterium in order to achieve excess heat, and that was not done. I don’t think it was the length of the test that produced the fail.

  • jousterusa

    I didn’t expect (or enjoy) this comment: “I have not a clue of when there will be the results…” Given the broad expectation that the results will come forth in late June, do we need to scale back our expectations in this respect? Or was it just CYA rhetoric on Rossi’s part? I did enjoy and welcome the indications of the very large scale on which the tests are being conducted. I get the impression that the scientists involved have made near superhuman efforts to yield true and accurate results and measurements that have so often been missing in this debate.

    • ecatworld

      Hi Joe — Rossi said a few weeks back he was told at one point the report would be published in the 2nd or 3rd week of June. Now he says that analysis is ongoing at multiple labs in Sweden, and we’re in the 2nd week of June.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t see the report this month.

      • Buck

        Frank, there is something to be said with your suggestion.

        As was proposed by another here, the TIP team has just gone through 6 months of detailed testing and continuous in depth recording of data. Presuming the best success of uninterrupted performance with a rumored high COP >18 and industrial scale energy output, this team has stepped into isotopic analysis. They want to get to the bottom of the LENR phenomena and are going to talk themselves through every avenue they can. Who knows how many other LENR papers they are pulling from the library to read for additional perspective.

        I can’t speak to the appropriateness of the protocol, but they might be involving the 2nd team of editors/reviewers. The scientists are in control and who knows when they will get another chance to be “FIRST” with a revolutionary energy source that will turn our world ‘upside down’.

        While my hope is that the TIP is released tomorrow, it is quite reasonable to think that we won’t hear/see the report until August or later.

        • deleo77

          You think it could be an uninterrupted performance of >18? That performance would make many newspaper headlines around the world.

          I do think they are definitely spending time looking at the fuel. And a second group of reviewers has been mentioned, so their work is being checked by others. There is also the time for translation to English and the submission and review by the editors of arXiv. Still, I think it’s possible we could see something within a few weeks time.

          • Buck

            Deleo77,

            regarding the COP, I am repeating the rumors brought together by LERN G at: http://lenrftw.net/assessing_ecat_report.html#.U5Y7hChLq8A

            To see the table updated with the existing rumors, select the “Rumors” button in the upper right corner of the page.

            Regarding the timing: who knows? . . . Only they do. So, we wait . . . a few weeks or a few months.

          • Ophelia Rump

            When you consider the potential volume of energy, a COP of 18 is a tiny rate of flow. Passing unity is an achievement. Once passed the unity barrier, there is no guidepost to say what is a high COP. I suppose you could compare the actual COP against the maximum COP which would be all the energy releasing instantaneously. That would be a very large boom.

            18 does not seem to be a significant number. It can probably approach maximum if perfected.

            Certainly no barriers to the level of COP are known, except melting down the powdered core. It appears that COP is a factor of architecture, and control over the heat transfer. Expect the unexpected.

            • Buck

              Ophelia,

              It is my understanding that the achieved COP has practical implications when looking at the economics of competing energy sources and their conversion to electricity at an industrial scale.

              It was suggested that, depending upon the cost of NG, LENR had to achieve at least a 6 COP here in the US, 3 in Japan. Therefore a >18 COP points to an extremely competitive low cost energy source, easily capable of displacing other sources based on economics alone.

              • Omega Z

                Correction, COP>6 is pretty much minimum to be cost effective regardless of geography. A COP=3 produced by Electricity converted to Electricity is 1 or just trading $ for $. No Gain.

                The Confusion started with posts from Countries where electricity is high & only using the E-cat for heat. Confusion worsens when even in the U.S. where I live, Gas heat would be cheaper then E-cat heat with a COP=6.

                In the U.S., Gas is cheaper verses electricity which is why the interest in a Gas Cat. There’s also Dardens influence involved. The Darden Family has Major investments in the Fossil energy sector. Especially Shale Gas. They’ve looked into an LNG plant in order to sell LNG to Japan.

                Prior to the Rossi partnership, The Darden family tried to buy out Quicksilver & take it private.(Multi-Billion$ Deal) They already own a Large portion of it with Family members on the board.(I believe his dad was CEO or something) Last I read, Tom Darden was dumping large quantities of shares on a monthly bases. Like 10K shares or more at a time each month.

                • Ophelia Rump

                  I think your way off approaching COP is bringing in extraneous factors which effect the outcome.

                • Buck

                  OZ,

                  I think we agree on the original core point: a TIP report showing long term stable industrial sized output with >18 COP indicates an immediate economic threat to virtually all forms of source energy.

                  This is contrary to last years 3rd party report which showed a COP of about 3, thereby leaving the question on the table of whether LENR could be scaled to a competitive COP.

                • Omega Z

                  I didn’t take the COP=3 very serious.
                  1. They figured everything very conservative.
                  2. The cat was operated at a conservative temperature to avoid another melt down. Rossi has stated that higher temps equal higher COP.
                  The Data was limited, but what was available indicted something similar to an exponential increase in COP with additional temperature rise. Well not quite exponential but you get my drift. A progressive increase.

                • Buck

                  And thus, the tester’s stated interest in doing the recently completed test and pending report.

                  IMO, if the pending report is near what the rumors suggest, it will have a profound impact . . . how can pending investors, with billion dollar resources, argue against stable long term industrial power level performance with a >18 COP?

                  Again, only time will tell the story.

                • Ophelia Rump

                  You could take a losing energy investment, pepper it lightly with LENR and turn it into a major profit.
                  Darden is a brownfield renovation expert, that is what he does.
                  Some brownfields will be retrofits, others will be hot-cat production plants for licensed technology third parties to embed hot-cats into their own product manufacturing.

                • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

                  Actually a COP of 3 could be argued to be very cost effective. Since this is clean energy, the resulting environment impact would already save the world economy billions, possibly trillions.
                  I agree with you though, that a COP of 3 was very conservative. I expect a realistic COP between 10 – 20 from the upcoming TIP report.

                • Omega Z

                  ZZZ
                  Electrical conversion is calculated at 3/1.
                  So feeding 1Kwe in to get 3Kwh out converted to electricity equals 1Kwe.
                  Just break even. Zero Gain.

                  However, If your using electric energy to produce heat for processing purposes, etc, it would be a gain. But now your in niche markets.

              • Ophelia Rump

                How right you are.

                If you do the math, after all the energy costs like input and losses, to go from heat to steam to electric you break even at about COP 6.

                Meaning that every energy source known to man wastes most of the energy before it can be used.

                Heat to steam to electric 30% efficient, 70% loss.

                Electrical conditioning, (Inverter changing the signal to clean line voltage characteristics, 5% Loss.

                Every COP after 4 is bonus energy, free energy. Pure available working power.

                So COP 4 is break even, some say 6 being conservative.
                Every COP after 4 is profit.
                At COP 10 you put one Watt in and get 6 watts out. A fountain of free electricity.
                At COP 100 you put one Watt in and get 96 watts out. A river of free electricity.

                • Buck

                  Ophelia,

                  Then I think we agree on the original core point: a TIP report showing long term stable industrial sized output with >18 COP indicates an immediate economic threat to virtually all forms of source energy.

                  This is materially different to last years 3rd party report which showed a COP of about
                  3, thereby leaving the question on the table of whether LENR could be
                  scaled to a competitive COP. That question is now closed!

                • Ophelia Rump

                  Yes, Quite closed. LENR obliterates the all other energy sources.
                  Power the grid off LENR devices and run the LENR devices off the grid power. You only need a battery on one to jump-start the grid.

                  Why on earth would anyone mine and ship coal to generate electricity at all that expense?

                • Omega Z

                  Every slot machine I ever saw ate all the COP sooner or later. :-)

                • Ophelia Rump

                  Indeed!

                • Richard Hill

                  As well as the COP, you have to consider the capital cost of the plant.

            • Omega Z

              OR
              I think you misunderstand the term COP
              The coefficient of performance as measured by Energy Out verses the Energy In.
              With the E-cat, You feed 500 watts in & it puts 10,000 watts out would calculate as COP=20. Or 20 times as much output verses input.

              If you could assemble an E-cat & it just produced energy without any input would be Infinite COP.

              What you have described I believe is Energy Density or E=Mc2.

              • Omega Z

                Note, That a while back, Rossi started talking about equations that just state energy in verses energy out in place of COP.
                6 of 1, half a dozen of the other???
                Still puzzled as to why he has changed his talking point.
                Maybe, the COP was exceeding a point where he didn’t want it publicly discussed or if just influenced by the research team of his I.H. Partners.

                • Ophelia Rump

                  COP of greater than 1 is only ever used by crackpots. Since of course it is impossible.
                  The variable who’s name must not be spoken!

              • Ophelia Rump

                I understand COP quite well.

                But my perspective is shifted about 90 degrees from yours.

                The COP is truly a measure of the ratio of the input to the output.

                When you raise the output and hold the input you raise the COP.

                In this case the input is is an initiator and a control system.

                Assuming that you maintain the control system within some standard range, and increase the output you increase the COP.

                So the question of COP is a question of output over time, terminating when the energy is exhausted. I am assuming that the input is within some approximation of an consistent average range. Not that I believe that to be a fact, I do not.

                The power required for the control system = COP 1.
                In reality the COP of 1 may be a variable if more energy is required to control higher outputs.

                What I have described is using the energy density to determine the maximum possible COP, and maximum possible cop would assume a constant input or COP 1. If COP 1 increased Max COP would decrease.

                Keeping in mind that what we are doing is releasing stored energy, you could reasonably expect that it might be more difficult to control the release as we get closer to the Max COP. I have chosen to ignore that unknown as I do not expect there to be a direct linear correlation between control and output, I expect that control can be maintained with a less steep rise of input to output as the output increases.

                This gives us a perspective, it suggests that COP 18 or even COP 1000 is a relatively minor rate of release, and closer to COP 1 than Max COP.

                Had Max COP been 10 instead of 15552000, a COP of 11 would be impossible and a COP of 5 would seem potentially more difficult to achieve.

    • bitplayer

      Maybe they’ve figured out a way to measure something besides gross heat production, like “ash” or heavens forbid faint radiation, and they have been looking for patterns in the data. Sort of like LHC. No simple, fast way to do that.

      (I’m envisioning highly hirsute post-docs of disputable gender hunched over keyboards late at night surrounded by half-eaten boxes of take out food. But maybe not, because the NDAs might mean the principal researchers are writing the code themselves. Cue sound of drawing breath through closed teeth.)

      And if they ARE on the trail of something like that, they probably REALLY don’t want to let it go and have some following set of researchers either make the interesting discovery or claim some reason to debunk their methods.

      My heart goes out to Rossi, regardless.

      • Ophelia Rump

        I enjoyed the view you presented.
        Good theater.

      • Omega Z

        From statements of the scientist/testers in the radio program Rebuttal & Rossi’s statements, I’ve pretty well concluded that they are analyzing the ASH. I don’t know that this would be published where it would be available to us, but surely to those who need to know.

        The testers were allowed to see the internals of the last test. But Rossi removed the charge beforehand. This was published in the previous report. They Cut the Reactor open with a lathe.
        Rossi’s combined statements indicate that he was not allowed to remove the charge this time.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The best way to ensure that is to make a premium product which the rest of the world can only imitate like the Intel Processor or NVidia chipsets.

    You can easily do this by licensing the technology to partner companies who pay you gladly for the sales which will result from the quality of their product, in which they embedded your product.

    This is what they are doing in China, this will be the profit center for Cherokee and Industrial Heat for decades to come.

    • BroKeeper

      This
      brings up another point. Had Cherokee/IH
      picked China for manufacturing strictly for cheaper labor or was it based on the old axiom “If you can’t beat them, join them”? Are they hedging their bets against the flagrant infringement of intellectual property rights (IPR) in China and China’s indigenous innovation policies have undermined their competitive positions. 100’s of billions have been lost to China’s unfair practices. Building large E-Cat factories in China could offset such losses being ahead of any indigenous competition. Check out these statistics:
      http://www.usitc.gov/publications/332/pub4226.pdf

  • Ophelia Rump

    The unexpected.
    Nobody expects the unexpected!
    But everyone expects that it will happen!

    Quoth I.

    • Omega Z

      The Optimistic Pessimist.
      I’m am Positive that something will go wrong. :-)

      • Ophelia Rump

        Don’t you find that you are correct far too often that way?

        • Omega Z

          Yes, Sadly. :-(

  • Chris I

    He makes it sound like several researcher are entirely bent on getting to the bottom of the matter, with or without replicability but at least gleaning which phenomena do or don’t occur in the nickel hydride. This sounds encouraging.

  • Fortyniner

    You would need some way to generate similar standing waves in three dimensions rather than two, in order to control an aerosol mist (something I’m sure that Mills could use if it was ever perfected). I think we may be some way from being able to achieve that.

  • Fortyniner

    Agreed. The only reason we haven’t seem much more of that is that the ‘opposition’ don’t know when the report will be published, so they fear ‘shooting their bolt’ too soon.

  • Fortyniner

    Rossi and his associates will have plenty of in-house data confirming viability by now. ‘Negative’ probably just means not confirming the sort of performance they know is possible. If that was the result it probably wouldn’t affect IH’s plans, but it would be painful for Rossi when published, as he would know that it was underselling his life’s achievement through no fault of his own.

  • Fortyniner

    ‘Exam nerves’ is a good analogy – you not only have your own performance to worry about, but that of the examiners. Are they in a good mood or tired and irritable? Are they professional and objective or less that that? Are they competent or someone the exam board hired off the street?

    Almost everything Rossi has done to date has been under his control, but now his reputation depends on others, and to a large extent on how well they have carried out the job assigned to them. As a fellow control freak I sympathise with AR.

  • Ophelia Rump

    There must be an awful lot of excitement in general at Industrial Heat.
    There is much more going on for them than this report.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I think foobario2 was joking.

  • JDM

    One trying to replicate the puzzle would not qualify as “expert in the field”, eh?

  • clovis ray

    Friendly p
    I have always said iF some of the devices that i’m working on was to come to fruition,I would not care if some one replicated said device, for himself, or even his friends, as long as he did not try to sale it, if he does then he would need to contact me, as i would want a commission.and if he did not,he would be liable.

    • Mike

      No he wouldn’t as they will not give rossi a patent. I smell a rat. Why wouldn’t they give him the patent? America definitely needs the money we make from patents. And if the invention doesn’t work, the patent is useless. Only reason to deny patents is to control something. Who is really in bed with big oil? hmm fellas? Where is Gore hiding? lol

      • Omega Z

        Yes, Not all that long ago, Gore was telling investors they should sell their Oil stocks. On the backside, Called out, He was Buying Oil stocks.
        I would tell people to sell sticks I was interested in also, Makes them Cheaper for me to buy. :-)

      • clovis ray

        The hypothetical was about me, not rossi, and i think he does have a Italian patent , and i’m not to worried about someone stealing his work, because only ih, and Dr. Rossi, knows the secret ingredients, to make the core produce, i don’t think it just seems to me if someone knew how to build one, they would have all ready done so,

      • clovis ray

        mike, he did not get a patent, because he would not give away his discovery, as you well know, patent trolls glore, the patent office had safety issues,
        and would only certify him, unless an operator was on duty 24, 7. so he told them to go screw them self. and i don’t blame him one bit, so there , you see all your trolling was false.

  • clovis ray

    hi, guys, as i understand, the mark of a great man, is a man that will stand alone in his convictions,a believer in my god, and will never be swayed too and fro, by every little whim, that’s thrown out there , and a man,that knows, that anything that the mind can conceive is possible, and devotes his life to a task, that will move humanity forward, and make a better world for his and our children, his is truly a god sent. and therefor this device will be confirmed, and our world will be changed, and it’s up to us to see that it is used correctly, just like the internet, it will be deeply intertwined in our life’s going forward. peace, prosperity, and good will toward mankind.

  • Curbina

    I think we all feel the anxiety, as, at least me personally, have taken flak for even considering the possibility of a new revolutionary energy source being in development based in the so called “cold fusion”. So, I share his anxiety, but have no choice other than waiting as all the rest of us.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    admin: thanks I saw you corrected some, but both occurrences of “Giuliano” are still misspelled, in different ways

  • JDM

    “experts in the field” but none have been able to produce the effect themselves?
    Perhaps it is a new “field” in which there are no “experts” yet.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      I guess he means the field of making physical measurements and such.

    • clovis ray

      JDM, Agreed , my words exactly in an earlier post, and i would not be surprised to find
      IH, didn’t hold the only patent on the Rossi effect . for the very reason that it is a exciting new field, and he Rossi, is one that has a operating device doing work, and before long a group of privileged people, will be invited, to see it, I would love to be there to record the event for ECW, hint, hint, bigsmile.

    • Ophelia Rump

      This is an interesting philosophical point.
      Expertise is a function of time.

      They are marginally more expert than the experts before them, less expert than comparing themselves to their future selves, and less expert than the next generation of experts.

      Either the best sources on the subject are experts right now, or there are no experts.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    admin: typo, it’s Giuliano

  • Bob

    Exonerated…..

    Rossi seems to be a genuine person of faith and also one of high personal fortitude. (He was a long distance runner of high ranking for instance). I believe he is one who holds his personal reputation as very important. Let’s face it, his personal reputation has taken hits in the past and continues to get slandered today by the skeptopaths. Not just little barbs, but serious slander!
    His PetroDragon venture wound up in the courts in which he was mostly cleared in the end, but it tarnished his reputation. Today, the skeptopaths yell out extremely personal insults daily. Not just that they disagree, but they personally attack him. (I am impressed at how well he has stayed the high ground in this area)

    So I would not be surprised if some of his anxiety is related to exoneration and may contribute to why he allowed this type of testing….. to declare to the world that he is not a scam artist and to allow the skeptopaths to choke on their own words. It is true, a positive, irrefutable test SHOULD vault the name of Andrea Rossi from “accused scam artist” to the echelon of the greatest inventors of time.

    I would be anxious as well and I wish him the best. “Positive or negative!” :)

    • psi2u2

      Very nicely put, Bob. I have never found the skeptopath attacks on Rossi to be credible. From the start, they smacked of desperation, evasion, and a strong need to reinforce the doubts of the speakers. Rossi may succeed or fail in passing this test. Personally I think he will succeed in flying colors. But either way, your synopsis of him as a man is far closer to reality than the one peddled by his critics. I join you in wishing him, the current testing team, IH, Darden, and all the very best in this venture.

  • Billy Jackson

    absolutely understandable. you would have to be inhuman to not have anxiety for what Rossi is waiting on.

    This is more than a proof of concept. or even validation. this is the culmination of a world changing life’s work by Rossi that will effect every facet of our world that uses energy. For Rossi himself your talking about a man who has struggled in past endeavors and is on the verge of going from obscurity to possibly a house hold name along side that of Edison, Tesla, or Einstein.

    This is not a small accomplishment by any means. if the E-cat works and the validation is there..the impact this will have on the world and the human race cant be understated. After this it will just be more and better efficiencies while possibly shrinking the technology. It wont happen fast and overnight. but it will happen shear market forces alone will push this technology out to the public and industries.

    Mr Rossi. this is your baby.. and like any father in the waiting room will tell you.. when you hear that first cry.. even if its behind closed doors.. there is no other feeling like it.. Stand Strong we are all waiting with you in support!

  • Gerard McEk

    I agree with Rossi’s words and I feel the anxiety too, but a lot less than him I am sure. What I read also is that he is confident about the outcome that excess heat is being produced, but he seems also nervous that the extensive research now going on may reveal details he does not know about, which may change his future view on his invented process. Interesting!