Swedish Radio Program Casts Doubt on Cold Fusion, Rossi’s Reputation

Swedish public radio station Sveriges Radio has released the first in a three part report about Andrea Rossi and the E-Cat which examines Andrea Rossi’s reputation, and has a decidedly negative slant — focusing on Rossi’s reputation as a deceiver who uses others to get his dishonest ways. The tone of the piece can be discerned by the lead sentence on the summary posted on Sveriges Radio’s web site:

Researchers from leading Swedish universities may have helped a prison sentenced inventor to sell a machine that a majority of the scientific community dismiss as fake. It is about so-called cold fusion and Italian Andrea Rossi, who claims to have built a machine that produces large amounts of clean and cheap energy.

This is a typical media narrative about Andrea Rossi that has been reflected in other media stories, and in my opinion is one-sided, and it ignores the most important aspects of this story — which is the strong evidence in favor of the E-Cat being a real and potentially revolutionary energy producing technology.

In addition to reading the web summary, I have spoken with a contact in Sweden who has listened to the piece, and from what I have learned, it seems that the overall assumption is that cold fusion is impossible, and Pons and Fleischmann’s research was based on erroneous measurement. The implication, therefore, is that Rossi’s reports cannot be true and he is getting attention and support by being a master manipulator, and is using others (specifically scientists in Sweden) to give the impression that there is something to cold fusion and the E-Cat.

In concentrating on Rossi’s conviction following the closing of his Petroldragon business in Italy in the early 1990s, rather than the evidence that points to the E-Cat being valid, my opinion is that listeners who are looking for an accurate picture of the E-Cat will not be served well by this piece. Of course the timing of this radio reporting is interesting, as we are awaiting the results of important testing that is taking place — and it seems likely that this testing took place in Sweden, presumably with a number Swedish scientists involved.

It may be that this piece will cast doubt in the minds of listeners about the validity of the upcoming report if positive results are announced. As always, I recommend that anyone investigating this subject be open minded and look at the evidence. When I first heard about Rossi and the E-Cat, I was suspicious — but after years of careful examination of all the evidence I can find, the only rational conclusion that I can come to is that the E-Cat works as claimed. See here for more on that.

Frank Acland

  • GreenWin

    Sifferkoll has made an excellent observation. Misguided environmentalists oppose LENR because it solves their biggest issues. They should be happy. They should rejoice. Instead they grumble, avoid, deny, impede environmental progress. Why?? As Sifferkoll notes, because they will lose prestige, power, and…. $$$$$.

    This is tantamount to a doctor withholding a cure. He does so fearing he will no longer be needed. He clings to the attention and prestige his ego demands. Human beings must transcend this frailty. Such transcendence should be the domain of academia. Higher education should not attempt to give students careers. Higher education should provide knowledge and tools to put an end to careers.

    We see this in action today. LENR will put an end to much of the fossil/fission extraction industry. Old energy careers will end. But for the well educated, new, more creative careers will begin. This should be the goal of educators. Equip students to think creatively. And to be joyful in doing so. :) 2 cents.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    Siferkoll makes a violent interpretation of that story

    “An Enemy of LENR and Clean Energy – the Misguided Environmentalist…”

    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/?p=314

    My interpretation in that article

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/376-Opinion-on-Swedish-Radio-An-Enemy-of-LENR-and-Clean-Energy-%E2%80%93-the-Misguided-Envir/#post736

    is that whatever is the reality of that case, we should be ready for “misguided” activists… in the same vein of “misguided physicist”

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    Elforsk answers to the attack.
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/372-ELFORSK-answers-to-Sveriges-Radio-attack-against-their-work-on-LENR-and-E-cat/

    they are not definitively sure of E-cat, but they say their mission is to investigate and prepare their industry.

    • psi2u2

      Most excellent. Thanks for the update, AlainCo.

  • Bernie777

    Yes! Go get’m Mats! Finally a scientific media person with guts.

  • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

    Mats Lewan have written a reply to the swedish radio show.

    http://matslew.wordpress.com/

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

    In my opinion this ridiculous radio show was a win for team LENR.

    First off the number of people who actually heard it was probably small. Plus it changes nothing: current public perception is that cold fusion died in 1989. Most probably found it very curious that this radio show was talking about it at all.

    Most importantly it resorted to falsehoods, half-truths, cherry picking and character assassination. These are tactics with limited impact and shelf-life: ones we can beat with truth and persistence.

    If June’s 3rd party report is strongly positive and has any big names attached to it, this stupid radio show will be quickly forgotten.

    It’s all down to the report. Frank has the right idea. People in positions of power and in position to spread the truth need to hear our side of the story.

    When the battle is engaged, yes counter the Internet shills, but try to maximize the report’s exposure to commercial, government, military and media organizations and people that can actually affect the E-Cat’s adoption.

    For example we have a great China card to play. Nothing wins an argument and gets an American’s attention like suggesting the Chinese are going to beat us to the punch. Let’s use it.

    Tell businessmen how much money they can save. Tell politicians how they can be heroes. tell soldiers the amazing advantages, unlimited decentralized power will provide. Tell the media they are sitting on the story of the century… maybe of all time.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      you make a point that raising awareness on the question, even with bas answer is good…

      about

      “Nothing wins an argument and gets an American’s attention like suggesting the Chinese are going to beat us to the punch.”

      it remind me something, not even with chinese… Enemy in business is a good motive, better than greed in fact.

      just say Pepsi that Coca is buying LENR lab, and pepsi will put a million in R&D.

    • builditnow

      Crimes against all humanity and crimes against all of nature globally?

      Do efforts to suppress LENR / Cold Fusion rise to the level crimes against “all humanity” and “all of nature” … yet?

      Are those deliberately trying to suppress LENR considering the prospect of standing trial in the International Court in The Hague for the massive damage they caused?

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    It seems someone have send a letter to a media authority in sweden about that black campaign

    http://lordnilsson.blogspot.fr/2014/05/min-anmalan-till-granskningsnamnden.html

    Maybe a swedish citizen can comment and explain

    • Freethinker

      :)

      Well “A Swede” commented on this thread 3 days ago (see below) and gave this link :

      http://www.radioochtv.se/en/

      Basically there are conditions to uphold the license to broadcast, and those conditions include the content. In principle the reporting must be objective and so on. A program can be reported and a board is then reviewing the complaint and can cite the the responsible persons.

      But note :

      “Are all the complaints investigated?
      Not all of the complaints lead to an investigation. The Chairman of the Broadcasting Commission decides which complaints will be investigated. Decisions of the Broadcasting Commission may not be appealed. This also applies to decisions stating that a complaint will not lead to an investigation.”

      There is room for complaints to be ignored ….

      But the result is usually merely a slap on the wrist, and some aggressive investigating shows might actually relish in such citing. However, the channel is required to broadcast that they have been cited, and a response to this, and usually a correction.

      Somehow such corrections are broadcast out of band for those who usually listens as they can be aired at some other time than the program. (it is a little bit debated right now how such corrections are to be aired).

    • Lord Nilsson

      Yes. Lord Nilsson, that’s me ! I listened to all three programs about Rossi and his work and then decided to report the program to “the inspection jury” at the authority for swedish radio and tv. Because, as I see it, they violates the requirement of impartiality and state things with lack of evidence. Based on for exemple hearsays about Rossi’s earlier controversy with fairness in Italy. Or… as the responsible for the program, Ulrika Björksten, comment it: (quote)….. “my subconscious told me, that it is a scam” (end of quote)

      • psi2u2

        Thank you, Lord Nilsson!

        What a revealing quotation.

  • orsobubu

    Sylvie Coyaud, interviewed in the Swedish program, is a relatively
    little-known French-Italian science journalist and could be, in the
    terminology of the media, more properly be called a blogger. In the
    eighties, she led for many years a modest scientific transmission aired
    by Radio Popolare (Popular Radio), an extreme leftist Milan-based
    network, at that time deployed on radically anti-American,
    anti-Atlantiist and pro-Soviet positions. It was the channel choosed by
    armed terroristic formations to disseminate press releases of their
    attacks. It was known police costantly monitored the phone calls coming
    on the radio. I remember very well the transmissions after space shuttle
    Challenger disaster, in which conductors and listeners rushed to
    microphones enjoying for the event.

    With the end of the Cold
    War, the radio positioned on reformist and pro-European side, but the
    connotation of influential alternative media in the italian information
    system still remains. Some
    radical souls once present in the
    conduction, such as trade unionist, student revolutionary, feminist,
    gay, anti-nuclearist ones, etc., have converted into current topics such
    as the defense of immigrants, of the environment, etc, a mix of Ralph
    Nader, Al Gore and Noam Chomsky. Of course I do not intend to make any
    type of connection between Coyaud and these facts but only describe the
    cultural environment of her work, which is common to the background of
    the left-wing journalists in Italy, siding with popular positions and
    socially engaged like, just in case, in the fight against frauds,
    opposed to conservative ones, described as on the payroll of the
    multinationals. Curiously, Coyaud, in her battle against Rossi, end up
    defending the big capital’s interests, but this is a specific trait of
    former Italian left extra-parliamentary intellectuals, now flocked in
    droves to support the various sectors of private and state capitalism.

    Here is a links to a couple of Coyaud’s blogs, the latter already linked by bachcole some time ago:

    http://ocasapiens-dweb.blogautore.repubblica.it/2014/05/25/bollitore-nucleare-a-fusione-fredda-cont/comment-page-1/#comments

    http://oggiscienza.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/una-tantum/

    Here I translate some interesting phrases:
    ————————-
    “Since June, Hydrofusion is still looking for a pilot customer to whom to deliver the E -cat for free”

    “One
    of the licensees for Germany – also representative of an energy
    converter from vacuum – asked back its stake to invest it in a business
    in alternative medicine”

    “If Rossi could get enough energy, he
    could sell it to the grid to make millions dollars, and save millions of
    children and to buy some apartments in Florida. Instead, he had to
    resort to an industrial partner”

    “In the case of cold fusion I
    have noticed that if measurements are done well, the phenomenon will
    disappear or there are small anomalies that can be explained by chemical
    reactions already known”

    “IH is not Cherokee, which stands to
    BlackRock (sic) as Rossi stands to National Instruments: a customer like
    thousands of other companies”.
    “IH is a private fund of 11
    millions in the form of equities, debts and options, absolutely not an
    “industrial partner”. You are free to believe that engineer Fabiani of
    Leonardo is working with IH to “develop” the e- cat in North Carolina,
    while he is indeed dealing with gambling in Getech firm in Piacenza,
    Italy.”

    “Rossi has always posed as a victim, but with all those apartments in Florida I thought it was more difficult”.

    “In
    the U.S. collecting millions for crazy stuff comes out every day, and
    for centuries. Think of Keely and the hundreds of millions spent by the
    DOD to explode hamsters with brainpower”

    “With $ 12m , once
    removed the purchase, perhaps remains a sum to remunerate lawyers and
    patent attorneys for a couple of years. After that, just copy
    BlackLight: make a Board of Directors with former CEOs of Westinghouse
    and some emeritus at MIT and you will get 3 million a year for sure”

    “We are several people working on this issue (the Swedish broadcasted program) for months, and it is all very clear to us”

    “Anonimity
    of mysterious IH lenders and 1 MW plant lenders is protected by the law
    of Delaware. Investment in high-tech adventures are deducted from
    taxable ( tax deferral , it seems to me that it’s called ), and in some
    cases it is a bargain.”

    “Now we have the correspondence with Levi
    of Swedish scientists who signed the 3rd party report, so we know that
    their measurements are incorrect. In the only properly done by
    independent experts the COP remains stable at nearly 1″
    ————————–
    Regarding
    this last sentence, here is another Coyaud’s blog where she reports
    about the mails exchanged among the 3rd party report authors:

    http://oggiscienza.wordpress.com/2014/05/30/kall-fusion-uninvenzione-impossibile-iii/

    translated:

    http://tinyurl.com/n8l9scd

    • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

      > “Now we have the correspondence with Levi
      > of Swedish scientists who signed the 3rd party report, so we know that
      > their measurements are incorrect. In the only properly done by
      > independent experts the COP remains stable at nearly 1″
      > ————————–
      > Regarding
      > this last sentence, here is another Coyaud’s blog where she reports
      > about the mails exchanged among the 3rd party report authors:

      So basically that all relies on to trust Levi or not. Nothing new. Good enough to decide to do a proper test.

      Also the Swedish SR show was using very basic tricks with the scissor and record tape, it is really badly done. The same trick can be accomplished by quoting parts of the email correspondence which I assume is stored on public record and is regarded as public knowledge and reachable for any journalist (We have that system in sweden)

      Cheers!

    • Heath

      Besides how Coyaud is interpreting these scraps of information, I find it interesting the President Obama did know about last year’s test and Industrial Heat likely well before the test. He also did visit the NC Research Triangle last fall and likely IH as many have conjectured before. I can imagine that the US government is VERY aware of this device which may be why everything is being kept under the radar (away from lobbyists, politicians and energy executives). From Coyaud’s blog:

      “We are asked to prepare an” Executive Summary “of our results, which will be presented to the President of the United States Barack Obama. I will take the responsibility to make that kind of letter, circulate it among yourselves so you will be able to suggest any kind of correction, and I think that that letter should be signed by all of us. It should be ready by 29/4. Will not be published and will only contain the main results on which we all agree. We are in the presence of a new energy source and as yet unknown. Attached to that letter, we may also send a draft of the article. If we were able to send him to the arXiv (an online store, ed) by that date would be perfect. ”

      The news that the President will travel to the headquarters of the company that owns the rights to the technology and will discuss with the owners is not surprising. The Swedes do not know that, according to Rossi, President Jimmy Carter had personally phoned to Andrea Rossi’s Petroldragon to inquire about its technology.

      • psi2u2

        Carter, like Rossi, was ahead of his time.

    • Freethinker

      “”We are several people working on this issue (the Swedish broadcasted program) for months, and it is all very clear to us”

      Marcus Hansson is only one little cog in this coordinated attack which in reality could be orchestrated by a large political leftist movement, which nowadays really are going errands for big business? Is that the idea?

      The thought, alone….

  • Freethinker

    So they final card has been played.

    In the spirit of GreenWin, proponent of putting the focus of the uplift and positive, I will be sparse with my venom.

    It is amazing that an acolyte of patho-skepticism, that is what Marcus Hansson must be, can say words like “It is this that is the core of the fanatical conviction, that it is dogmatic, and that it cannot be changed.” and actually talking about, me,you and LENR, folks.

    Again, removing all manure, there is – again – null, nil, zilsch – and really nothing – left behind.

    Bad ElForsk, investigating a potentially game changing source of energy. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!! P-leeaase! I quake in my pants!

    First there are accusations that tax money is used to help this criminal, then he is upset that the criminal is actually paying himself for flight tickets. Go figure.

    So this overly religious criminal environmental wrecking creationistic fake engineer philosopher scammer and his exceptionally gullible swedish friends have now been thoroughly exposed. I take my hat of for you …

    Epic fail.

    There are so many flaws in this guys story that it almost hurt when I think of all the typing I must have to do just to describe them.

    So Green, lets think about the uplift. The uplift here, is, that anybody actually listening into this – assume average intelligence ….. well actually rather a bit lower than average – will now understand that there is a revolutionary energy source on the brink of availability and that this journalist is really badmouthing this at a level, that it actually must be real…

    Even die hard skeptics are annoyed with Marcus Hansson and his show as it is clearly a hit piece.

    So let’s archive this and move on. I rest my case.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      my dear is working in politics, and she educated me a little about the technology (yes it is one)….

      It is clear that I recognize a black campaign. 2 weeks before the election.

      Remember that I asked people what they would invent to find the excuse to disprove the third party report.

      Levi was out…

      DC was measured…

      calorimetry was flow calorimetry…

      It was done in an independent resort.

      what could they say…

      They know that if they raised a problem, the third party testers would address it immediately, and their conspiracy theory will be refuted with clear evidences…

      so they waited… and 1-2 weeks before the report is published, when the last typo are corrected… they get a conspiracy theory wit plane ticket out of their magician hat.

      the third party testers can no more answer. well done.

      all the believers who swallowed the lies of parks, Huizenga, taubes, Morrison, by not reading a word of their conspiracy theory (read http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusion.pdf#page=4) , will comfortably see that there is somewhere, a conspiracy theory, of which they have no idea, that can explain all… comfortably.

      all the media will comfortably repeat the myth without entering any detail… just saying “of course we have an explanation, it is fake”… and everybody will go back in the sofa.

      I’m afraid they won.

      Franck you should tell it to rossi… his test is dead. It will only convince believers.

      It is really a problem since I know a big corp (50bn+ sales) that now will be too coward to go public on that subject. I know corps executive don’t have bollocks, so goodbye.

      You cannot imagine how furious I can be.

      Well done. That is how politics works.

      F**k 8<

      • Freethinker

        ….and then thousands of mysterious device pop up in China generating energy at unprecedented low cost. The end game cannot be lost. It is just a matter of the time we will be prevented from taking part in the future. I am not sure this program will be sufficient. It is of too poor quality, and the hit piece character is too evident. Even an idiot will see it. Or so I think. I hope U R wrong.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          For me it will be a huge failure of Science and Rationality.
          we have mW calorimeters, precise below 0.1%, weh have IR cam, thermocouple, big energy agencies, comitees, procedures, media, scientific journals, peer-review panel, …

          and we cannot see the evidence of few kW in a black tube, because any evidence is challenged by truthers, by creationist of orthodox science, by mainstream Apollo conspiracy specialists…

          like with Wright brothers we have to wait their technology is bought by a foreign country.

          I naively though that the third party report, well made, would, even late, do the job.

          nope.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            No, A good test is a good test. And if there is minor issues they can be corrected afterwards. The bosses of IH knows that. The Swedish SR radio show was so bad that it is easy to argue against it. My boss will have a great laugh on Monday.

            • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

              that article from Jed about how media and Nobel were gullible agains cold fusion make me afraid that only few businessmen and engineers will see E-cat as real.

              http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusion.pdf#page=4

              “In rare cases, a few scientists have been guilty of even more unethical behavior. McKubre and other prominent cold fusion scientists have given copies of journal papers to prominent critics, including Douglas Morrison, Robert Park, and John Huizenga. The papers directly contradict assertions made by the critics regarding matters of fact, not opinion, such as the amount of energy produced by cells in continuous bursts, the percent of input versus output, or the amount of chemical energy that a mass 0.5 grams of palladium deuteride will release as it degasses. Morrison often claims the degassing can account for the heat produced during an experiment performed by Fleischmann and Pons. Fleischmann gave him a paper showing conclusively that he is mistaken by a factor of 1,700. Morrison has been told about this mistake countless times, at conferences, in writing, and in a formal reply published in Physics Letters A. Yet he recently contacted a Nobel laureate and repeated the same misinformation. Fortunately, the Nobel scientist contacted me, and I was able to give him the correct numbers.

              Gary Taubes is another prominent critic. He made many misinformed claims in his book, on the radio, and in the mass media. He may not be qualified to read journal papers, because he does not appear to understand basic concepts such as electricity. He claims people sometimes measure electrolysis amperage alone and not voltage, and he thinks that regulated power supplies put out more electricity over the weekend because factories use less power. He thinks some researchers measure tritium once, after the experiment, without establishing a baseline or taking periodic samples. His book is filled with hundreds of similar errors. Perhaps the most mind-boggling one was his statement that a cell might have huge temperature gradients, “say fifty degrees hotter on one side than the other.”

              This is like asserting that you might stir a cup of coffee, drink from the right side and find it tepid, but when you turn the cup around and drink from the left side, it will be steaming hot. Taubes wrote his book using the same methods employed by sensation-mongering reporters in 1912: he pieced together second-hand rumors and made wild guesses about a subject he does not understand. He described his methods in the introduction, footnotes, and appendices. The book is based upon interviews and telephone conversations with 257 people, listed in an appendix. He spoke with seventeen people who actually performed experiments. Four of the seventeen are implacable enemies of cold fusion, including the authors of the three famous “negative” experiments. Most of the remaining 240 are critics like Frank Close and William Happer, who deplore cold fusion, and have staked their reputations on its demise. They have attacked it in the mass media, the ERAB report, and in books. Although more than a thousand peer-reviewed papers were published by the time Taubes wrote the book, he did not reference a single one of them in the footnotes. His descriptions of the experiments are wildly at variance with the facts, in major and minor details, so it seems unlikely that he read a paper. Describing an experiment is an exacting task, even when you understand electricity, you read the paper, visit the lab, and ask the experimenter to review your description. When a scientifically illiterate person tries to imagine how an experiment works based on allegations made by people who despise the research, indescribable confusion and distortion result.

              Taubes’ book was recommended in enthusiastic blurbs by four Nobel laureates and the chairman of the American Association of the Advancement of Science. These people could not have actually read the book, or if they did, their judgment was skewed by animosity. This shows how easy it is to spread false information, and how careless distinguished scientists can be. It takes only a small group of people to poison the well of public opinion. There may be a few other active critics in the mass media, but most attacks originate from these four: Morrison, Park, Huizenga, and Taubes. They are not famous or influential. They succeed because many scientists bear a grudge against cold fusion, and are willing to believe the worst about it. When Robert Park attacked it with inflammatory ad hominem rhetoric, a room packed with hundreds of members of the American Physical Society (APS) applauded and cheered.

              Mistakes Caused by Culture, Denial, and Psychology One way to learn how to separate fact from fiction is to study the ways mistakes and disagreements arose in the first place, and why they remain in the historical record, seemingly impervious to correction.”

              You will see their activism on radio, their incapacity to admit scientific results whatever people do to convince them…
              and you will see the media and scientist applaud those disinformation crooks.

              thinking 5 second that you can buy physicist with a sweden-italy ticket… Did their hear of easy-jet?

              • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

                The problem is that the scientific process for physics does not work when you get a 5% reproduction rate. That system is basically flawed. If you employ statistics like in medicine you can handle this , but this is typically not something that is close to heart to engineers and scientists in chemistry and physics. It all that opens up a lot of politics and the science get hurt. It is really easy to prove that there is classic cold fusion in Pd, you simply do a blind test where the tester does not know if the water id heavy or not. It would be remarkable if he could decide the kind of water through a cold fusion experiment. I bet that would hit the main papers if done correctly. The experiment is time consuming and expensive though. Anyway politics would not be able to touch such an experiment if you have a couple of them.

          • Omega Z

            AlainCo
            So, Should they succeed in discrediting the Report.
            Industrial Heat needs only builds a single LENR Power Plant. “IN CHINA”
            What shall all the Rich & Powerful Do?
            Sit back & watch ALL their Wealth & by association, Power be sucked into “CHINA”? I Don’t Think So!

            Tho Countries can sometimes work together to contain of suppress products, information, or technology, China is in a very precarious position. Nothing could persuade them to resist making use of this technology.

            So regardless how they make the 3rd party test appear, If the Technology works, It will be built. Even if that requires the China Option. The best they can do is delay it a few years… Money & Power will not allow anyone to shut them out.

            • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

              I agree that when E-cat will be sold it will be accepted as real after a reasonable time (less than one year, to compare with Wright Brothers plane).

              It is simply a pity that you need to sell a product to prove it works, while you have tons of scientific evidence it is based on a real phenomenon, and a fair test results…

              at least rational people should say that there is a not so little chance that E-cat is real and that rational business men should buy an insurance against that revolution…

              as Mats explain, even if you can have DOUBT, it is a reason to LOOK FURTHER, not to CLOSE YOUR EYES!

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        At least you won me over to try arguing and moderate this issue. I hate it when politics get’s into science. And I thinking that we are smoked if we can’t get any new kind of energy source out of the magician’s hat else we will burn all oil and coal that there is in a quite short time, then anything can happen. So I will spend my brainz arguing.

      • curious

        Yours is an interesting observation, that now is the ideal time for the smear campaign -it has time to seep into the public opinion before the authors can make their rebuke.
        At the end, I think if Rossi is the real deal he will succeed because greed is more powerful than politics, and the value of the invention is incalculable. There are other more altruistic reasons, but the bottom line is the bottom line.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          greed is powerful only for the have not, the young entrepreneurs.
          For people in place the fear is more powerful.

          in fact today some people are selling LENR not as hope, but as a cataclysm to protect your company from, by adaptation/research.

      • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

        Get it together, Alain. This was only a minor skirmish in the hills before Napolean’s army advances over the ridge line. We’re going to need you for the coming battles.

        This is all about power (mostly in the form of money, but also social — people protecting their turf and positions).

        Assuming a good report, “we” will have the facts on “our” side. And the indefatigable Andrea Rossi and his generals navigating the minefield. We need to employ guerilla tactics, like Minutemen popping out from behind trees to decimate the RedCoats. Put pressure everywhere until the dam bursts and the wall of disbelief crumbles to dust like the Berlin Wall overrun by a joyous new generation demanding freedom. The revolution is upon us. Paul Revere makes his ride soon. Get your damn musket ready.

        The wall is not as sturdy as it looks, suffering from decades of decay.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          my job is to parachute weapons (Beaudette and few other article).
          Most people don’t read it today, but when question will raise, few will use it.

          A ballot not a bullet. your pencil is a weapon. drop books not bombs.

  • psi2u2

    I agree. At least on the subject of Rossi, Krivit is not a reliable source. He abandoned any pretense to objectivity on that point long ago.

  • Freethinker

    The last part of the SR P1 radio show:

    http://t.sr.se/1kQS9zX

    Transcript/translation:
    http://bit.ly/1kQS8M9

    Knock yourself out.

    • artefact

      Good work again. Thx.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks so much for the work you have done with this, Freethinker. It’s good to have these shows chronicled as part of the history the story.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      thanks…
      like seeing the video of Kennedy assassination.
      They killed the swedish scientists.

  • GreenWin

    @Admin, Frank, you might consider adding the link to the Swedish Public TV – SVT 2012 broadcast that reviews the plausibility of E-Cat and its global benefit to humanity. Just to highlight the strange conflict of interests within Swedish public media.

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/12/22/andrea-rossi-featured-in-swedish-tv-show/

  • Mats

    Worst case scenario IMO: The coming report is positive but then we only see more ‘Rossi says’, possibly also ‘IH representative says’. The credability of the writers of the report will suffer badly if not the real goods will be shown up to the world shortly after. IMO Rossi and IH are moral obliged to these people to deliver very soon after a positive report. At least one public installation.
    I that’s not the case, the field will still fascinate me but Rossi/IH will not.

    • Daniel Maris

      Absolutely. IH will have to follow up or we can only conclude it has all been a sophisticated scam. However, I am reasonably optimistic.

      • GreenWin

        Yeah sure Mats. “Morally obliged.” Complete bullsheit. Manufacturing and certifying a commercial product of this disruptive scale takes years after a laboratory validation. You seem confused by the difference between commercial product manufacturing and marketing and experimental evidence. The language used casts your lot near to the pathology of shilldom. Sorry.

  • stefan

    I just listened to the third part of the radio show, Really really bad journalism. They are clearly cutting the tape to make their way of the story. For example when they asked Lewan what it will take to dismiss Andrea Rossi, he told basically the reporter that if they found measurment errors in the tests, he would change his mind about Rossis apparatus. Then they asked him of he would dissmiss cold fusion, then he said no, but … then his talk was cut away. What he stated after the cut was that there was other cold fusion ideas, companies and results. But the journalist wanted to show that Mats is a bad believer. It’s really that awful, they do tricks all the time to black paint people all around. Another bad part was their judgement of the Levi report. They let Pomp or was it Ericsson to state that it was a crap scientific paper, claiming bad references such as web sites and that it contained anecdotal information. No mentioning any thing that is good about the paper, basically paint that anyone believing in anything in that paper is a ignorant fool. I’ve so embarrassed by this shit.

    • Freethinker

      Deep sigh … I agree with your observations. It is an amazing piece of crap. But, wait! If I say that I am a Believer. I am a sect member!

      • stefan

        Yes, if we decide to wait for clear evidences and not accept weak ones for judging someone you are a sect member!!! Do they want the witch hunt back to the society. They truly are a piece of dirty minded people. Oh they end up asking anyone (intended point at anybody not rejecting Rossi) not believing in the environment cathastroph of Rossis old endavour. Well no one thinks that it wasn’t a huge problem, Rossi tell the story that he used to take care of the dump for much less money than the state was claiming, someones is probably making 100’s of millions and blaiming Rossi, that is as well is awfull.

        • GreenWin

          Gentlemen, you empower the negative simply by dwelling upon it here. With deep respect to your great artist Ingmar Bergman, look beyond this cloud – perhaps to the STV segment that suggested Rossi, LENR and abundance is believable. Just a thought. :)

          • stefan

            :-)
            I think that it important to show a bit of the tricks they are using and some problematic issues by putting the wrong man in the jail. My bet is that the anger that is behind this show stems from an anger of the pollution scandal and is a kind of a really bad summary street court.

            • GreenWin

              Of course. Exposing dirty tricks as we did with “Tricky” Dick Nixon in the USA is important. But focus on extraordinary uplift to humanity is better!

              • Freethinker

                I hear you, and I do agree. But if their image of reality is communicated without some fight, it may make any uplift discussion moot or at least such info difficult to push out. Nobody will listen. But at the end there will be products and that will eventually settle all arguments.

          • Freethinker

            Not to worry, the dwelling is not deeply rooted. But I am a bit annoyed. ;)

  • Freethinker

    The 3rd part will be aired today and it will deal with Elforsk and Vattenfall. From the tone in the info about the today program, it is clear that it is a very hostile peace.

    “No arguments bites on the believer”
    They also call Rossi a “creationist”.

    And regurgitate that Rossi claim he is an engineer, when in fact he is a “philosopher”.
    Elforsk are bad because they report on the ECAT and are exclusively positive, and, major bad poo-poo, Rossi paid the travel expenses for the Swedish Scientists.

    Fasten Ur seat belts …

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      keep their words for the Nuremberg trial after.
      As citizen we have no power to make it industrial, but as citizen we can ask for punishment.
      no pity , not because of their crimes against future, but for the next generation of criminal to deter.

      You don’t have justice to punish, but to deter.

      • Freethinker

        :)

        His name eludes me at this very moment, but you remember the guy who was on the press conference where P&F were robbed their dignity and that was the beginning of the end? They guy who said “We had plenty loading”, referring to their insufficient loading of the Hydrogen into the Palladium?

        He and all other major scientists that helped quell the CF idea in that moment, them I would like to see jailed, as well as any other non-scientists owning or executing the agenda conspiring to act like this.

        There are many skeptics (patho- or otherwise), so by ignorance, inability to find facts, fear, etc. We can’t put so many people in prison, Alain :)

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo
    • Freethinker

      Alain,

      He agree’s with them in so far as saying that Rossi is a scammer and will eventually end up in jail.

      BUT he is in-fact complaining on the poor quality of the program, and equally poorly made research.

      Then again everything else he writes is to me completely misguided.

  • robyn wyrick

    I can’t see any way that this program will change anything.

    Rossi has sold the E-Cat to IH.

    If IH can manufacture just one industrial E-Cat unit, then all the second guessing will be as important as the people who said human-powered flight would never be real.

    Their scandal mongering is a side show.

    Good reporting Frank, and please keep it up. I love this site. I can’t wait till June!!!

    • Freethinker

      Well,

      it will hardly stop the changes of progress in the end, but it could potentially place a fat obstacle in the way.

      If the Swedish scientists are thoroughly discredited, all interested ridiculed, it may prove more difficult for Vattenfall, for example, to push for this. Especially if there are Swedish scientists co-authoring the 3rd party paper. I know, Vattenfall is only one energy company on a tiny speck on this planet, called Sweden. I know.

      But I happen to live there, and I do not want to be deprived the future for one minute longer than need be, due to ignorance or powers with an agenda. So for me, this is no sideshow, although for the Chinese it may very well be.

      But you are right, it will change nothing of the eventual outcome.

  • blanco69

    I think this would be a good time for Mats Lewan to come out with some ecat supporting comments. Ever since he published his book, which comes across like he believes Rossi really has something,, he’s lost his impartial reporter status. So come on Mats, help the ECW brothers and sisters out with some Swedish equilibrium!

    • stefan

      His waiting for the third program to go on air today Friday. After that he has said that he will write an answer if I understood it correctly.

  • jousterusa

    What’s badly needed here is “pushback.” It would be great if someone with good science credentials bought $10 worth of Skype time and started calling Swedish media outlets in Stockholm and elsewhere to counter the stuff people have heard from these three broadcasts.
    It’s likely they have competitors who’d love the embarrass therm!

    • Ophelia Rump

      Now that you have mentioned it, I do wonder if Cherokee has a PR guy on tap.
      Surely there would be a history that related to one of his other investments.
      What is the Tom Darden playbook for a product launch?
      He must have a long online history.

    • Omega Z

      Cherokee/IH/Darden/Rossi don’t have to push back if the 3rd party test proves positive.

      How much harder could one push in this case. Within a Few weeks we should know & if that report is positive, Let them Explain that to their audience.

  • Omega Z

    Ahh Krivit, He is a LENR supporter as long as it follows his beloved Widom-Larsen theory. Anything Else invites his Wrath & that includes everyone.
    He’s more harsh with Rossi because of a personal vendetta.

    As to Krivit’s Blog, I’ve found it a rich environment on Rossi’s early days. What you take from it depends on You, the Individual. If you merely read his stories & except his twist on it, You likely have a bad take on Rossi & then Parrot that around the websites.

    However, I used it as a source to look deeper & do my own research into Rossi. The Story is quite different then the 1 that Krivit tries to convey. Petrodragon produced results. How effective depended greatly on the raw source material. But It worked.

    Note this technology continues today & is undergoing continuous improvement. From small jobber outfits to large Corporations are involved. This field of work is part of a much greater field. It’s known as recycling. A recovery of natural resources.

    Rossi’s problems involved messing in someone else’s playground. Known as the Mafia. Anyone who pays any attention to world news should know that the Mafia has been a major problem for Italy for a very long time.

    As to the Military Thermal Electric Convertor(TEC) contract with Rossi, Well, That was actually a contract with LTI(Rossi was a Partner there at 1 time) & also involved contracts with several other entities at the same time. Including a University. Rossi completed his arrangements with the Military on this project. He produced 1 hand built working device. At Issue was could it be mass manufactured to those standards & Economically. Neither depended on Rossi, And the Answer was No and No. It couldn’t be.

    I recently came across an article of Military research on TEC’s. I thought it may have to do with Rossi & read it.

    Same story don’t you know. Can you build an Efficient TEC device & Can you mass produce it to those Standards Economically. It’s still in progress.

    But Surprise, It has nothing to do with Rossi. It is a research Project that takes place over & over every half dozen years with different players. Rossi was just 1 of many.

    That’s what the Military does a lot of. Research. And if 1st they don’t succeed, Try & Try Again. Eventually, Technology will advance enough & it will work. They want to be there when it does.

    This is a Learning process for the Military. Even a Failed project has value. Whats the weak link. It tells them where to put further research funds in order to spur the technology forward.
    The Rossi TEC story is taken out of context to Bash Rossi.
    I don’t care for Krivit, But I have to thank him for his information. It allowed me to find the Truth for the most part.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I think it will be howling funny when reality sets in, and these people are left standing like the emperor with no clothes.

  • Karl

    I have listen to two of the three program aired by Swedish Radio (one remain tomorrow). Being somewhat informed of the research in the LENR field, what Swedish Radio is broadcasting is far from any science. It is rather withholding facts, discredit persons and grossly misleading
    uninformed listeners to judge and get their own opinion.

    Swedish Radio is not only broadcasting these three so called scientific programs. They have
    additionally sent an additional program on a same theme in their program series
    called “medierna”. They claim to have an objective watching eye on how media penetrate
    the public.

    In this program (medierna) the same people are continuing their insults on Rossi, digging in his past and how he handled media. They attack the positive view given by a previous program
    by Swedish TV a sister company. The traditional physicists view had no chance
    in this program to explain that Cold Fusion is not working because if it should
    it would be against the law of nature. The message is clear and human being
    have nothing more to learn.

    Most of us following stories of the brave, devoted and intelligent researchers and innovators in the area of Cold Fusion or free energy type of solutions have seen how MSM tailor and
    handle “truth”.

    We have long seen attempts to scare and misscredit those who try to do a proper job analyse what is truth and what is not and bring it and knowledge forward.

    It is somewhat sad that public services join in and as such misuse their clear responsibilities to
    inform a broader public properly and ant scare them off.

    It is probably no coincidence this silly program series come out just before the publication of
    the long-time testing of the E-Cat.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      It is the same in france, and visibly everywhere in the West.

      This is why the real battle is not to argue with honest misinformed parrots, but to give them a chance to be informed.

      I don’t know if I am right, but I think that the best and many sufficient source is the book excess Heat of Charles Beaudette, which is rational, documented, and covering all sectors of the controversy, from calorimetry, media, epistemology, logic, and finally authorship.

      the article of Jed Rothwell which compare Titanic myths fed by media with cold fusion myths is a good apetizer for Beaudette heavy book.

      I think that no theory deserve to be discussed, but i like the approach of Ed Storms who remind us the basics…

      What else ? the book of Mats tell us the story of Rossi…
      After you have many scientific papers, article from Jed, some business evidence like Elforsk Perpektiv, like the chinese announce about Cherokee… the article of ENEA/SRI/NRL about their joint work to understand cold fusion.
      the list of peer review papers from Jed tally, from Spawar authorship, the articles in JJAP of Iwamura and Toyota…
      But is it worth, once you have read Beaudette…

      I finally add the article of Roland Benabou on Grouthink, of Kuhn on scientific revolution, and some know case of pathetic failure of consensus like Wright brothers, Schetman, Semmelweis, HTSC, semiconductors, X-Rays,Laser, quasi-scientists…
      does it deserve to be reminded… normally any scientist should know that, and just is actively protecting his brain from those know facts.

      I don’t know if it is useful. sure not for physicist or active skeptics who are locked in groupthink and will never dare to read anything (they don’t even moan when my links are dead)…
      maybe lurkers…

      Today university of tsinghua probably know all people who downloaded the book of Charles Beaudette…. they could say us if there is many?

  • Daniel Maris

    Yep, likewise. I don’t mind people opposing Rossi but I did not like the way he went about doing it – a very aggressive style in my view, not the way to conduct a genuine debate.

    As far as I know, he does believe LENR is real, or at least achievable in theory. So he is not in principle anti-LENR. But he is very much anti-Rossi and anyone who has the temerity to support him.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      He have done a very good job beside some errors.

      He fall in love with Widom-Larsen theory, and with Larsen vision… He is not competent enough to judge the problems of that theyr.

      He also have fall in doubt with rossi after a failed demo where Rossi was really frightening.

      Krivit is simply a man who have problem to change his mind. He get convinced by LENR, and was a good activist.
      then he became a Larsen attorney, and a Rossi attorney General.

      He raised real point in all domain, but he cannot change his position, not consider a different position.
      He is not helped by his lack of scientific education, even if he learned much.

  • bitplayer

    Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear…

    I wanted to make the sure that the main motivation for the radio program was mentioned more than once (Greenwin) in these posts.

    • bitplayer

      Desperate, desperate, desperate, desperate, desperate…

      Thought it needed some “desperates”, too.

      1350–1400; Middle English < Latin dēspērātus, past participle of dēspērāre to despair;

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    just found that article:

    http://fof.se/blogg/nya-kalla-fakta-om-kall-fusion#comment-12341

    it is the occasion to give that answer…

    “just found that article:

    http://fof.se/blogg/nya-kalla-fakta-om-kall-fusion#comment-12341

    it is the occasion to give that answer…

    “You seems to miss many information.

    First of all you focus on anecdota detail about the Rossi theory. This theory is wrong, point… if Toyota and Mitsubishi have found evidence (replicated thus) of transmutation of the metal it cannot be the source of heat.

    What the work of Miles and Bush (done in double blind) and the confrmation by ENEA DeNinno report have prove, is that there is production of He4 much above background or any possible enrichment (despite the myth of few incompetent people who ignore all about He4).

    Ther is also Tritium found, and replicated accros the planet, from US, India…

    NiH reaction is much well know than PdD and we cannot say much more than it is probably similar, and that as the report of SRI by tanzella on Brillouin WET reactor have measured, or as the Levi&al test funded by elforsk have prove, there is much heat produced.

    I really advise people who wnat to have good information on cold fusion story, to avoid Wikipedia, but to read people who read really the wroitten papers and the critics, and the critics of the critis, who studied calorimetry, epistemology… instead of tabloid books.

    That book is “Excess Heat” by Charles Beaudette

    http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf#page=35

    you will thus learn that there was only 4 written critics against Fleischman & Pons calorimetry. The two by Lewis and Hansen were refuted by the third of Wilson.

    the one of Morrison was so incoherent that it was dismissed as absurd (Jed Rothwell in an article on Titani myth says more on Morrison pathetic activism despite all evidence).

    the one of Wilson was god, and Fleischman introduced some correction in his computation. the problems is that Wilson corrections cannot hide the reality of some massive heat production that were observed

    Note also that the artifact proposed don’t apply to some replications, like McKubre done with closed cell, Oriani with separated gas and Seebeck calorimetry…

    I imagine that it sais nothing to you (it is clear from what you say), so my advice is to start by reading from there.

    About Rossi, the books of Mats Lewan, that you did not read visibly, give many information and explain the complex character of Rossi.

    ther wer many tests, and some clear failures, not because of fraud, but because of stubbornness. Anyone knowing the real story of Edison, tesla, Wright Brother, Bill gates, Steve Jobs, won’t be surprised.

    this is another book to read, even if it is less conclusive.

    one usual fallacies by physicists and their watchdogs (and even of LENR supporters) is to focus on theory and not on evidence.

    What is called the “Beaudette’s Doctrine” is that Cold Fusion is a calorimetry question, not a physicist question. It should be peer reviewed by chemists, by experts in calorimetry.

    for E-cat devices, at kW level, Jed Rothwell reminded that there was standards to test boilers, and that they should be respected.

    The interest of the IR Cam test, with the thermocouple calibration, is that it rules out many question on the waterflow, steam quality, and ruleout many stage magic question.

    The only reasonable question raised was about a possible DC offset that the AC powermeter could not detect. It is hard to imagine, as any of the 7 testers could have detected it with a grand-pa voltmeter, but they decided to address that in the next test.

    anyway E-cat test is not the real question as everybody know that the only serious question is whether Fleischman & Poss will be vindicated.

    as you should know if you had read the article cited in excess Heat, in the critics and their refutation, Cold Fusion excess heat is proved since about 1992 without any doubt.

    It is what the ex-skeptics Heinz Gerischer admitted in public.

    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GerischerHiscoldfusi.pdf#page=2

    Beaudette explains well in the book that the failures were not only normal (like for Dolly cloning, for semiconductors, for HTSC) but also were mostly concentrated in early quick experiments done by non chemists (incompetent in calorimetry thus), while the chemist who took few years to make a good job as they are experienced to, mostly confirmed some positive results.

    The recent joint work of ENEA, SRI, and navy NRL, confirm and detail the condition to trigger cold fusion, including high loading factor, high current density, presence and absence of some impurities at quantity similar to semiconductors doping, crystallographic structure of the surface, and polarity (yes some failure were simply polarity – but it was a physicist, you can forgive it).

    you can refuse to believe one word of what I say, but you sure have to check it.

    the end is near and it seems you are not aware of 99% of the data.

    good reading, best regards.”

    hope it is not moderated

    • Freethinker

      The journal Forskning&Framsteg is a prestigious journal, where, usually, high ranking Swedish scientists are contributing to the content. I have myself subscribed to it, in different periods, and many articles are really good.

      I find it highly disturbing that a prominent publication like that, has a blogger – Jan Scheffel, who has previously brought up Rossi, now has an entry, where he links in the radio show in a very neutral way, but manage to serve up the following:

      “One can view this story from many perspectives. For my part, I feel, that we scientists need to take a moment to think how to separate objective and subjective within science”

      This make s me concerned, as he says nothing of the really bad radio show, but see fit to discuss scientists objectiveness. I hope I am wrong, but I think that he will moderate his comments heavily and that it may be another attack on the integrity of Essén & Kullander. We have a holiday here in Sweden today, so maybe he is not vetting the comments today – even though he found the time to enter the blog entry, but no later than Monday, it will become evident what his intentions are. Heads up.

  • georgehants

    I keep asking.
    Why are people complaining at these journalists when they are simply reporting the official view of science and 95% of our wonderful scientists?

    • GreenWin

      While your point is made George, it is the duty of a professional journalist to research and publish truth; not truth as a herd of scientists regurgitate it. In this case there is neither science or journalism at work. Just the caterwauling of fearful propagandists.

      • georgehants

        GreenWin agreed, in a perfect World, that this is not.
        If the Prime minister gives a speech giving official policy then the media report just that and who can blame them.
        It is to all intents official scientific policy that Cold Fusion is junk and therefore Mr. Rossi et al are by definition frauds.
        Until science reports honestly on this and many other like subjects, only they can be fairly blamed for the deaths and suffering that could have been avoided by a competent investigation for the last 25 years. (I think)

      • Doktor Bob

        It should not come as a surprise that North Korea used the taxpayers money to broadcast propaganda.

        • GreenWin

          Indeed Doktor. As does every government financed media outlet.

      • psi2u2

        “Just the caterwauling of fearful propagandists…”

        uhu.

  • jousterusa

    I’m not sure it’s useful to publish the translated transcript of this garbage.