Defkalion Responds to Recent Criticism (Update: Peter Gluck Interviews CEO Xanthoulis)

I have been wondering if there would be any response from Defkalion to recent charges launched by former members of Defkalion Europe that the June 2013 public demonstration was flawed, and that since that time questions about flow calorimetry had not been resolved (see this earlier article on E-Cat World) In addition to the article published by Mats Lewan, an interview with Franco Cappiello, the former managing director of Defkalion Europe, has been published on the Italian Nextme.it site. In the Interview Cappiello in which he too expresses strong dissatisfaction with the Defkalion testing protocol, and the way in which Defkalion has dealt with the situation by not responding to requests for help to resolve the unanswered questions. Cappiello raises the possibility that Defkalion could have acted with criminal intent, and states that there will be a ‘legal aftermath.’

Defkalion Green Technologies today published the following statement on its web site:

NEW ANNOUNCEMENT

SUBJECT: MATS LEWAN & LUCAS GAMBERALE REPORTS “DEFKALION DEMO PROVEN NOT TO BE RELIABLE”.

DEFKALION HAS EVALUATED THE SITUATION, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE POSSIBLE HIDDEN INTERESTS AND AGENDAS BEHIND SUCH REPORTS AND INTERVIEWS, THAT ONLY SHOW PARTIALLY AND SELECTAVLY OUR POSITION.

DEFKALION WILL CONTINUE “BUSINESS AS USUAL” AS A PRIVATE COMPANY REPRESENTING ONLY ITS OWN INTEREST AND THE INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC ACCORDING TO OUR VISION.

It sounds like there will be no attempt (in public at least) to respond to any of the technical issues raised by Gamberale and Cappiello, but they seem intent on pursuing their business strategy in bringing their Hyperion technology to market.

UPDATE: Romanian physicist and cold fusion advocate Peter Gluck has published a recent interview with Defkalion CEO Alex Xanthoulis regarding the recent developments mentioned above. The interview can be read here: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.de/2014/05/interview-with-ceo-of-defkalion-green.html There’s not a great deal of new information here, but Xanthoulis mentions that Luca Gambarale broke an NDA in going public with his criticisms of Defkalion. He also states that Gamberale, after doing tests with Defklalion signed for the purchase of shares, but did not attend the livestreamed demo performed on June 23, citing sickness. Following the demo he requested a meeting with various people. Xanthouslis states:

My question to him was why he accepted the Defkalion Shares, why he made the Italian presentation and why he brought the subject up when we could not repeat the same test together because of our departure schedule. I have never received any answer to the above also to why he excluded Mr. Xadjichristos from that meeting.

Due to shortage of time and since all the questions were on the calorimetry, I suggested to send him test that were conducted without calorimetry. These tests were delayed to be sent due to my health problems at that time. However they were actually sent one month later. In fact this information was sent two times and although this information was strictly confidential we never received further questions or any answers.

So I was shocked when I saw published a test of Mr. Gamberale that was never conducted together with us to prove his position. Although a strict NDA was signed by Mr. Gamberale with a very high penalty clause in the case of a breach.

  • jousterusa

    I hate to see a company fighting for its life make unnecessary grammatical and typographical or spelling errors in an important announcement. They will probably read some of the comments on this site, so I hope they see this and correct their announcement. It does not follow from my advice that I am taking their side; I am on Rossi’s side in this. Here at the corrections:

    SELECTAVLY (should be) SELECTIVELY

    THE INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC (should be) THE INTERESTS OF THE PUBLIC

  • Christopher Calder

    I think you guys are too pro Rossi. You should be pro cheap energy and not pick personal favorites. Your reading of Defkalion is entirely wrong. They have acted responsibly from the beginning and have put up with allot of unfair criticism with dignity. Their electronic spark H2 breaking/LENR initiation system is a valuable patent and is their own invention, not a Rossi invention. Both reactors work and will have different uses and specialized applications.

    • US_Citizen71

      Stealing IP from someone else is acting responsibly?

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        it could have been a problem if they exploited that IP.
        Admitting they had the formula was irresponsible by Xanthoulis (one of his irresponsible talk, like some of rossi to be fair).
        However they have been clear that they were developing an independent technology, and real or not, their claimed technology is not the one of rossi….

        Their real tragic landing was not to answers the question of a partner, and if as it seems logic they have no working technology, at least they should not partner until it work, or share their problems and admit they needed funding for basic research first…

        Not publishing a test report in public can be normal for a company until the last moment when prototypes works and they try to find clients.
        Claiming you will publish and not publishing is already bad communication.
        Not answering question by a partners to prove you have a working technology, is suicide, and can be explained only by incapacity to deliver (or desire to break, but why here).

        Silence can raise question, based on nothing concrete.
        Having a partner moan and his answers not being answered, even if in private, is instant red light.
        As we have seen with Rossi, it is not always scam alert, but sign or irrationality and desire to break relationship. rossi answered to Hydrofusion with elforsk report…

        With Defkalion, I don’t see any reason to break the contract with DE, so probably they have nothing .

    • bachcole

      Christopher, how do you know that Defkalion’s electronic spark H2 breaking/LENR initiation system works. I confess that I like Rossi and IH, but my real bias is towards the people who do good demonstrations. If Mills or DGT or Joseph Blow can do a really good over-unity demo, then I will become infatuated with them also.

      • Alain Samoun

        “Christopher, how do you know that Defkalion’s electronic spark H2 breaking/LENR initiation system works”
        Because both SHT and Defkalion owners believe in miracles.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          SHT claims was breaking physics (breaking O into H is endothermal), but Defkalion claims were very acceptable.
          They just claim a classic exothermal LENr reaction with Nickel Hydride powder… their difference was they claim that instead of heat, ultrasound, pressure change, electric current, laser, as many have tested, they used plasma excitation…

          Defkalion claims were quite classic, similar to E-cat/Miley/Piantelli/Celani , and that was the trick. They behaved more rationally than Rossi at the beginning.
          One hypothesis is that they were imagining they could mirror E-cat with research. Another is that they expected to reverse engineer E-cat and design a non patented variant… E-cat was just longer to reach market and they get short of cash meanwhile…
          The last hypothesis is that they imagined they made a working reactor, fooled themselves instead (it may even work but not enough), and desperately tried to get cash to really discover a working technology.

          SHT looks more like a free energy scam, while Defkalion looks more like either a MeToo fraud, or an initially honest startup desperate last resort trick.

    • NCkhawk

      I don’t know how you can make such statements. I’d be willing to bet that not one patent application publishes from Defkalion before they go out of business for good. At present, there is no indication that they even know what a patent is.

  • LCD

    The only interesting thing here is that we now know that if somebody smells a scam it will get out. But as far as this goes we do not know all the facts.

    Sad fact of the matter is that we know that Rossi and DGT have control issues if the reaction is real because by now surely there would have been some simple product released somewhere.

  • NCkhawk

    Defkalion and their supporters are now failing the smell test. They parse words and lash out those who question the doubt they continue to generate. In fact, the only excess anything they seem capable of truly producing is excess doubt. Perhaps they and their supporters should just stay quiet until they have something to definitively demonstrate. In my opinion, they are now causing damage to the sector. Its time to put-up or shut-up.

    • bachcole

      A credible demonstration that does not insult people’s intelligence (as in Mills’) is worth more than 1 trillion words.

  • Christopher Calder

    This year we will have definitive proof of the COP of both Rossi and Defkalion devices. Both devices work, but which will be more efficient and market acceptable? Will Solar Hydrogen Trends beat everyone with their accidental discovery that you can use LENR to break oxygen into multiple hydrogen atoms? Is that claim real? If SHT’s device works are advertised and can produce H2 gas for 25 cents per kilogram, then that device will be the easiest way to power cars, ships, trains, and aircraft. Instead of waiting 20 years for LENR to power cars, SHT’s device could reduce the wait to 5 years or less. What about Lockheed Martin’s ultra low cost, simplified hot fusion reactor design that they say will be lower in cost than LENR? I suggest we all be patient and polite and respectful of these companies because I believe all are sincere and doing the best they can.

    • Bernie777

      This year we will have definitive proof of the COP of Rossi reactor. Good luck with the Defkalion reactor. Please, do not put Rossi and Defkalion in the same reality room. “Defkalion is all theater”.

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        yes, from all evidence we have, including their non reaction to the scandal, they are dead… Or at best they will invent they reactor if the next weeks by luck…

        This year we will see the E-cat test, which maye be either a gigantic evidence of cold fusion, but an industrial deception, or an energetic Hiroshima…

        Don’t forget about Brillouin…
        There will be some research initiative for sure, that will dare to put their head out of the iron curtain of Academic groupthink. No reactors, but research…
        Probably Italian, japanese, US, and why not some surpises like Synergetix, Etiam Oy… not prototype, but research directions…

        I’m curious of what Brillouin is doing. are they still at COP 2 in WET environement, or already at huge COP as McKubre says for their HHT.
        All we have is the measurement by Tanzela of SRI, with a COP of 2, and few millions invested under conditional agreement. that is much more than what DGT have shown, and nearly as credible as what Rossi showed.

    • Alain Samoun

      “you can use LENR to break oxygen into multiple hydrogen atoms”
      At room temperature?
      That seems,like your CEO said,”a miracle”.
      I don’t believe in miracles…
      Show me!

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        SHT seems to have frauded. Sterling allan have seen the manipulation…

        http://revolution-green.com/hydrogen-production-breakthrough/

        • Alain Samoun

          Yes,pretty obvious that they were using a chemical reaction with a metal hydride like NaBH4
          Output: A lot of hydrogen and no oxygen…

  • Ronzonni

    Xanthoulis has spoken many times since 2011 about all the “famous” companies which have tested and approved their Hyperion product. 12 of them, wasn’t it? Who are they? Why have they not spoken up about it? Maybe, he’s not very credible any more.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Peter Gluck interviews Defkalion’s CEO A. Xanthoulis:

    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/05/interview-with-ceo-of-defkalion-green.html

  • Bernie777

    How much do you want to bet no testing will ever occur under Fleischmann rules?

    • bachcole

      And what are Fleischmann rules?

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    No news since few days from MFMP, they wait for an official call.

    Since long (ironically it was last autumns answering to Cimpy), I proposed a stone-proof iterative open protocol, but given what they did to Luca, and to other testers (preventing any change in the test method), I’m very pessimistic.

    The fact is that given the Luca Gamberale report, MFMP will not be fooled by tricks, and will not accept bad excuse to prevent good measurement.

    Either Defkalion delivers a good third party test, or they face their civil responsibilities.
    Hope it can be quick, as good test, or as bankruptcy and pursuits.

    What is sure is that in that affair I had to increase the maximum possible value for stupidity and manipulation. Because in that affair, the best bet is that few millions have been burned without any hope to see them back. Not even a good scam, just reality avoidance, like Enron or Federal bank .
    There is a little chance that huge irrationality, paranoia, and stupidity may not have prevented something to work…
    If that is irrational optimism, what is pessimism.

    What is painful is that people I respected get probably fooled… I hope no, without much hope, but whatever happened it was not clean.
    I should have heard Jed, and used more phone.

    • Bernie777

      AlainCo….I am afraid you will be waiting a long time for Defkalion to agree to MFMP,s testing protocol.

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        I am as afraid as you.

        Now they know that to escape public shame they just have to call of a test by plumber and electricians (harder to fool than physicist)…
        They don’t do it. things are clear.
        They had 9 month to reassure Luca, in private if they wanted, under NDA. They could even refuse to tell us that their reactor work to make a surprise, but they were required to reassure their partner.

        A company that says nothing, gives no test, is not a hard evidence… you can always imagine they are flying under the radars (like Brillouin).

        But a company that let a partner panic, close the shop, throw out the client, and finally publish a redemption report… have nothing.

        Or they are crazy… Rossi sure have something, but we have to remember how he was making failed and bad demo, discouraging some partners…
        Mats gave some rational and irrational reasons for those acts…

        However if I could imagine DGT were silently flying under the radar, or having just a stupid commercial practice, and irrational governance, when i see Symeon, Luca, flee from the ship, and then Luca accused them of evil tricks… I had to painfully admit they had nothing much since the beginning. (WTF :< )

        They looked more rational than Rossi at the beginning, then as irrational as Rossi, then today they are simply lying, while it is clear now that Rossi was simply emotional, bending facts, exaggerating, but not a fraud at all.

  • Paul

    I think that at this point, due to Defkalion debacle, also for Rossi the only convincing “proof” for the general public would be to see a self-sustained apparatus working h24 in an independent third party structure and monitored with online live streaming, with no external energy inputs or cables… Nothing more, nothong less…

    • Omega Z

      The E-cat needs power even in the self-sustain mode. In the Range of 110 watts.
      Note that feeding energy to the E-cat is just 1 of several controlling elements.

    • Fortyniner

      I’m not sure if it matters whether the general public believes that cold fusion is real, or not. It seems reasonably clear from soft data that the technology is expected to formally emerge soon by the energy industry, and that preparations are in hand for this event.

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        it seems rational.
        I’m just afraid that lack of support by “authority of truth” (media, academics) will slow the business development.

        • Paul

          Yes, in such case, many investors risk to lose their money, because after the raise of the funds I imagine that part of the money will go to Rossi. So, it is not a simple endeavour…

          • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

            anyway during big change like Internet bubble, oil rush, gold rush, US western pioneer, there will be few winner and many losers… huge growth on average, but awful variations.

            many startup fails, despite good ideas, and sane management…

  • Pekka Janhunen

    A scenario of how things might have gone:
    1. DGT and AR strike their deal. DGT doesn’t yet have the money.
    2. DGT doesn’t manage to raise money in time(*). AR and DGT ways separate.
    3. John H. tries to replicate effect, but fools himself with calorimetry (maybe flow meter).
    4. DGT believes they have it and is better than AR’s. Xanthoulis publicly rationalises why.
    5. DGT designs units around the kernels (empty shells according to AR).
    6. At some point they notice the mistake. They hide it to buy time, first within the company, then among testers.
    7. They don’t find a solution and time and money run out.

    (*) Perhaps their investors demanded >24 h test. Perhaps AR didn’t agree because wanted to watch it personally and couldn’t stay awake >24 h.

    • Fortyniner

      That all sounds depressingly plausible. I hope it’s not the case but there is not much reason to believe otherwise.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        My concern is that the problem with Defkalion’s measurements might cast also a shadow on Rossi. After all, the Hyperion technology has been derived from the original E-Cat. We need the 3rd party report as soon as possible.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          that is my worst fear, but it seems they addressed may points, including Levi and DC.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          “After all, the Hyperion technology has been derived from the original E-Cat.” As we know, AR has always denied this and has said that DGT has nothing but empty shells. The fact that DGT hasn’t demonstrated anything in this 2.5-year period in my opinion increases the likelihood that AR was right about it.

          • Bernie777

            Christos Stremmenos, “Defkalion is theater”

          • Andreas Moraitis

            My impression was that Defkalion had some insider information from the time when they were Rossi’s partners. But I may be wrong. At least, it seems likely that they have tried to copy the E-Cat, instead of developing a completely different device.

    • stefan

      I would add that maybe DGT somehow got some information of what the powder could be made of. It seams that Rossi worked really hard with the properties of the powder to get where he is today. You just don’t make a powder, you make ‘the’ powder, and there is probably mighty tricks going into this part. DGT just thought they could do it themselves, lacking the experience and mind of Rossi, hence 3,4,5,6,7.

  • MasterBlaster7

    My old top 3 was Rossi, Brulloin and Defkalion. In that order. My new top 3 are Rossi, Brulloin/Jet (tied)…..and Defkalion falling down with Black Light Energy somewhere in the 4-5 range.

    • hempenearth

      Don’t forget Clean Planet from Japan, MB7

  • Gerard McEk

    It really did not work out as they expected last year and I am sure they were not happy with it. I believe it was too much of a risk to show the public a frigged system, so I give them the advantage of the doubt. That does not mean that I would put 10 million on the table to buy the license. I would surely test it thoroughly before I would and I am sure every investing company would do so. Wait and see if Defkalion will surprise us.

  • Bernie777

    Pretty simple, do you believe Christos Stremmenos a credible, well respected physicist, a former ambassador of Greece and former Defkalion board member, “Defkalion is theater”, or do you believe Xanthoulis after his many lies and half truths. By the way, where is Peter Gluck Defkalion supporter, somewhere in Romania?

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      Peter Gluck is a nice man. he gained nothing in the adventure, and acted sincerely from personal contacts.

      I’m not certain of what happened with Defkalion, but with recent outing by many people, with old reports, I have an idea.
      You should first imagine that company don’t do scam, people do scam, and sometime they build a company to do it, or they manipulate their company to do it.
      the second is that fraud can be done upfront, or people in despair can do frauds to escape a dead end, even sometime thinking that it is temporary and that they will be able to repair soon.

      So be careful when raising accusation.

      Just to make you think :
      – who lost money (I see 2) in the adventure
      – who won money (I see none) or budget (I see one)
      – who have the sympathy of observers (I know 2)
      – who was judged competent (I see 2)
      – who was judged as visibly incompetent and irrational (I see one)

      I see from that analysis only 2 scenarios, excluding yours,
      one is happy ending and skow massive irrationality meanwhile
      one is sad and show massive hope, then desperate behaviors, with manipulations.

      in no case Peter Gluck is concerned

      • Bernie777

        Sorry AlainCo….but rationalizing the fraud does not change the facts.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          I don’t underatns your point.
          Just trying to find what happened without making mistakes, and libelling victims.

          just keep peter out of the story.

  • blanco69

    So Defkalion responds by saying they’re not going to respond. Says it all really. If they’re wondering if I have a hidden agenda as well. It’s not hidden, I’m openly searching for the truth.

  • Ophelia Rump

    There are two sides to every story, in this story the first side was that they had stolen the secret sauce from Rossi, and had built a superior reactor vessel to put it in. A tainted claim to fame.

    The second side is this dark cloud, with lingering stink.

    Enough.

  • Allan Shura

    When on a presentation tour last year they sought public and business exposure. They can only be remaining silent, logically, if there is a big improvement in the works to the long awaited production prototype with the R6.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Or they failed to pay the bills again because they have nothing, nothing at all of value.

  • Christopher Calder

    There are two sides to every story. I think the Defkalion scientists are top notch and will produce a documented demonstration of their new reactor design this year.

    • Daniel Maris

      Well that’s good, let’s hope it happens – but enough with unsupported claims I think.

  • bachcole

    It would be so incredibly easy to put an end to these doubts, really. And we all know what that would be. It would really take up little if any of their valuable time. And there is no way that these doubts can be good for them. Admittedly the doubts might be neutral to them. But I doubt that the doubts are completely meaningless to them, and it would take so little to quell those doubts.

  • Oceans2014

    Defkalion has definitely not shown anything that remotely looks like a LENR Reactor, they went to Canada like two years ago and still have not made an announcement of any substance, I am highly suspicious at this point.

  • pelgrim108

    Defkalion should do a new demo that would adress al outstanding issues.

  • Daniel Maris

    That’s fine Defkalion, just don’t bother us until actually have a working device in situ pumping out energy reliably.

    • enantiomer2000

      I am convinced that although they want to produce hot water, all they capable of right now is producing hot air..