Lithium: The Case for an E-Cat Catalyst [Updated: Piantelli Patent mentions Lithium]

The following guest post was submitted by Rick Allen.

There are a combination of factors that make a nickel-hydrogen cold fusion system work and allow for massive energy production. This has been demonstrated by Andrea Rossi’s “Energy Catalyzer” technology. Repeated tests – private, public, corporate, and institutional – have determined the E-Cat technology can produce kilowatts of excess power at very high temperatures, sometimes without input power. These results are far different than those from other LENR systems that may only produce tens of watts of output, with occasional higher bursts.

Although some of details about the E-Cat’s operation are known, many are still shrouded in secrecy due to intellectual property issues. The following is a short list of details – most provided by Andrea Rossi himself – that should be considered when any replication attempt is considered.

1) Nickel particle size around five microns.

2) Special processing of the nickel powder to produce “tubercules” or antenna like extensions on the surface of particles. This enhances the surface area and number of reaction sites. Rossi has stated that the processing of the powder is one of the most important aspects of the technology.

3) The use of a radio frequency generator. It should be noted, this is a controversial issue. Although a radio frequency generator has been alleged to be used, how it is utilized to control the reactions is unknown. Also, there is debate if a red hot resistor element can produce radio frequencies.

4) A hydrogen source. A canister was used in early versions of the low temperature E-Cat – but now a material is placed into the reactor that, when heated, releases hydrogen.

5) In regards to hydrogen, Rossi has stated that knowing how to create atomic hydrogen and utilize it appropriately is a key aspect of the technology

We also know, from Rossi’s statements, that at least one or more chemical elements are added to the reactor core in addition to nickel and hydrogen. This has been referred to as the “catalyst” which somehow allows the reactor to produce high levels of output. Over the past few years since Rossi first announced his technology, there have been many guesses as to the identity of the catalysts. A new possible catalyst has emerged: lithium.

There is no absolute proof that lithium is an E-Cat catalyst. However, there are a number of data points which point in that direction. For the record, it should be clarified that Rossi claims to have tested many different catalysts. The catalysts he used for the original low temperature E-Cat units may not be the same as for later versions (such as the ones utilized in the test of the one megawatt plant) and the high temperature (‘hot-cat’) modules.

Lithium (Li) is an element on the periodic table that is used in many industrial applications. It is an alkali metal that is highly reactive with other elements, has a low melting point (180C), and can be combined with hydrogen atoms to create lithium hydride. This substance can store more hydrogen than any other hydride compound.

There are a few qualifications for an E-Cat catalyst. The substance cannot be rare, extremely expensive, or radioactive. Lithium, although not dirt cheap, is far from being expensive. Also, in the tiny quantities needed in an E-Cat reactor, would be very affordable.

Another aspect of lithium that is relevant to the E-Cat is that in the form of a lithium hydride (LiH) it can absorb and release atomic hydrogen. Rossi has stated that one of the most critical aspects of the technology is to be able to create and properly utilize atomic hydrogen. It seems plausible that some form of lithium could have been used from the start to help facilitate the production, absorption, and release of atomic hydrogen.

In later versions of the E-Cat, it was admitted that a “pellet” of a material was added to the reactor that would release hydrogen. This was done to eliminate the need for a hydrogen canister which could be a potential safety hazard. Potentially, this could be a pellet of lithium hydride. However, even though this pellet was not used in the original E-Cat designs, it does not mean that lithium was not used in a different or similar role.

Chemonuclear Reactions and the work of Hidetsugu Ikegami 

Hideotsugu Ikegami is name that may become well known in the months and years to come. He is a Japanese physicist who reached the status of professor emeritus at Osaka University and is a guest professor at Uppsala University. As those who have been following the E-Cat saga know well, Andrea Rossi has visited scientists from Uppsala University and has allowed them to perform tests of his devices. What was not well known, until Mats Lewan published the book An Impossible Invention, is that the meeting and events that followed has a profound impact on the development of the technology. Ikegami had collaborated on cold fusion experimentation with Roland Pettersson, a professor of physical and analytical chemistry at Uppsala University. Lewan relates how Pettersson began to think that lithium might be one of the catalysts used in the E-Cat after visiting Rossi’s factory in Bologna:

“With a little lithium in the nickel powder, the conditions could favor the reaction with which he and Ikegami had experimented. That lithium in liquid form was required in Ikegami’s and Pettersson’s experiment tallied well with Rossi’s reactor having to be heated for the reaction to start.”

Mats Lewan recounts that that Rossi was introduced to the writings of Hideotsugu Ikegami during one of his visits to Sweden. On his way back home, he studied the physicist’s papers and found them to be extremely interesting. According to the book, he was inspired by the information and made certain changes to the latest low temperature E-Cat reactor he was working on at the time (which would be used in the one megawatt plant). Rossi told Lewan that he managed to increase the efficiency of the E-Cat by 30%. In addition, greater levels of gamma radiation were produced, but they could be easily shielded.

What could these changes, inspired by the writings of Hideotsugu Ikegami, be related to? Most of Ikegami’s work in the field of fusion revolves around an experiment in which deuterium atoms are shot into liquid lithium. The result is a number of nuclear reactions that release a huge amount of energy. Interestingly, the results of his tests have been replicated by a third party. Ikegami has also theorized about how the E-Cat might work.

In one document available on the internet, Ikegami makes several predictions about an E-Cat reaction, describes the materials that may be used, and shows how the tests of the E-Cat may confirm his predictions. Here is a description of a nickel-hydrogen reaction utilizing the element lithium to promote a nuclear reaction:

We begin a test experiment by pre-heating the reactor at room temperature. At first,
MgH2 molecules dissociate and form Mg2Ni or Mg2NiH4 molecules. The LiH molecules
dissociate through the physisorption and then chemisorption processes on the surface of
Ni=Mg2Ni grains more quick than hydrogen molecules due to their large dipole moment
p(LiH)= 2:0 x 10-29(C . m) comparable with p(LiF)= 2:1 x 10-29(C . m) and weak bond
strength D(Li-H)= 2:47(eV) compared to D(H-H)= 4:52(eV). The dissociated H atoms
are absorbed by the grains leaving Li+ ions and mobile s-electrons which reveal the
thermodynamic activity of liquid resulting in the chemonuclear reactions. When the Li
ions and mobile s-electrons moistens the hydride grains if nessecary under an activation by
corona discharge or electron or light irradiation, the coherent H-H fusion starts up with an
initial large enhancement and quickly heats up the hydride. This produces D-atoms in the
hydride together with lattice vacancies which are re_lled by H-atoms under the presence of
the pressure H2 gas. The D-atoms di_use with the di_usion coe_cient of D0 ~ 10-7 m2=s
at a high temperature towards the full clustering at O-sites [26, 27], hereby the trebly coherent
D-D fusion takes place resulting in the reaction energy released far larger than the H-H fusion
as seen in Section.11. (   p. 1-9)

The following are a few themes from his paper.

A) Only small numbers of hydrogen-hydrogen and hydrogen-nickel reactions take place in the Energy Catalyzer (referred to in the paper as the ‘Bologna experiment’). The heat production from these reactions is minimal.

B) Reactions take place in the E-Cat that breed deuterium.

C) The majority of reactions in the E-Cat are deuterium-deuterium. This can take place because more deuterium is constantly being created.

D) Charged particles are created by the deuterium-deuterium reactions and these particles interact with the lithium to produce additional nuclear reactions.

Ikegami provides a theory that can explain how lithium can be used in a system with nickel and hydrogen gas. In this theory, lithium hydride delivers hydrogen to the nickel particles and the process creates heat, deuterium, and additional nuclear reactions with the lithium.

The fact that Rossi made changes to his reactor after reading Ikegami’s writings could mean a couple different things. First, it could mean the E-Cat originally used lithium as a catalyst, but he made changes or added additional materials to the alloy. Secondly, it could mean that he previously did not use lithium, but started using lithium after reading the papers.

I think the reason that Rossi was so interested in his papers was that he was already using lithium. Since Ikegami was another example of a researcher who used lithium in his experiments, it was naturally fascinating.

What is interesting to me is that the third party replication that has been ongoing for months was most likely performed by scientists from the Uppsala group. Most likely, Ikegami was involved. Rossi has also stated that a partial theory may be provided in the report. Could the new theory be a version of what Ikegami has already published? I think so. It is possible that Ikegami and Rossi are working on the theory together, and that could be why Rossi has claimed to have spent so much time observing the test.

– Rossi has stated that he no longer feels that the conversion of nickel to copper is the major source of energy in his device. This would match Ikegami’s theory.

- Rossi has stated that there are multiple different reactions taking place in his device. This would match Ikegami’s theory.

- Rossi has stated that the theory that explains the E-Cat does not violate mainstream physics and does not require any new laws. This is exactly what is stated about Ikegami’s theory.

– Rossi has made statements that the pressures inside of his device, on the small scale, can resemble those of a white dwarf star. He has stated that high pressures are needed. In Ikegami’s theory, hydrogen pressure is also very important.

Ikegami does not seem to be alone when it comes to research in chemonuclear reactions. A researcher by the name of V.F Zelensky has published a paper titled Nuclear Processes in Deuterium/Natural Metal Systems. (  His paper goes into even more detail than Ikegami’s. In fact, he describes a situation in which the excess production of deuterium may cause a runaway situation. The paper shows pictures of a reactor – not an E-Cat – that was destroyed due to possibly excess deuterium being produced. This is reminiscent of the countless E-Cat reactors that have said to have been destroyed in intentional torture tests. Could excess deuterium production be the reason for the spikes in power output seen in E-Cat tests? Both papers are must reads.

There are additional bits of information that point toward the possibility that lithium is utilized. One interesting fact is that .4% lithium was found in the used “charge” that Rossi supplied to Sven Kullander for analysis. In an unused sample, no lithium was present. There are two possibilities here. One is that the lithium was a transmutation product. The second is that the unused charge was never in a reactor so it did not contain lithium. I propose the hypothesis that the lithium is added separately to the nickel powder (perhaps by coating the walls of the reactor) and that when a high temperature is reached the lithium melts and mixes with the nickel powder. In current systems, there may be both lithium on the walls of the reactor and a tablet of lithium hydride.

Another hint about lithium comes from Yeong E. Kim. In his paper, Generalized Theory of Bose-Einstein Condensation Nuclear Fusion for Hydrogen-Metal System ( , he speculates that lithium could be an additive. Also, a vortex-l poster who goes by the name of Axil Axil has proposed an alternative explanation to Yeong E. Kim in which lithium is used to coat the walls of the E-Cat reactor. ([email protected]/msg49024.html )

We do not know so far if lithium is an E-Cat catalyst. However, the evidence so far seems to indicate it is a possibility. If this is the case, hopefully it will be confirmed in the upcoming third party report so that replication attempts can be made by interested groups around the world.

UPDATE: “The Piantelli patent recently published is interesting because it is yet another piece of supporting evidence that lithium May act as a catalyst in nickel hydrogen systems. Except for the fact it is not mention deuterium deuterium fusion and the possibility of breeding deuterium, it reminds me of the work of Ikegami. Basically, this patent suggest that nickel hydrogen reactions can generate high energy protons thst can hit a secondary material – such as lithium – and produce additional nuclear reactions. It also explains how the lithium can be coated on the walls of the reactor or up to several centimeters away from where the proton was produced. Does anyone else have any thoughts about how lithium may be used in the E-Cat or additional evidence?

Rick Allen

  • investor

    Interesting. Mills has filed patents on Li and atomic H quite some time ago. It turns out that the reaction is a hydrino forming reaction. Here is from an earlier technical presentation.

    “The first and second ionization energies of lithium are 5.39172 eV and 75.64018
    eV, respectively. The double ionization reaction of Li to Li 2+ then, has a net
    enthalpy of reaction of 81.0319 eV, which is equivalent to 3 · 27.2 eV.”

    Reactions within 5% of multiples of 27.2 ev are hydrino reactions. Physical interaction of atomic hydrogen with such catalysts form “energy holes” causing hydrogen electron orbital collapse and resultant energy release. Any signs of fusion are derivative and not causative. Mills has built such devices for over a decade but abandoned this line of development for more promising pathways.

  • Matt Sevrens

    Lithium Hydride is apparently a great neutron shield. Perhaps Rossi stumbled across it’s use by originally coating the walls of the reactor to shield against radiation:

  • Obvious

    From JoNP

    Q: ”

    Dear Ing. Rossi,
    I read the patent concerning your device –
    EXOTHERMAL REACTIONS. In the patent are mentioned nickel, hydrogen and an
    unspecified “catalyzer material”. Now it seems clear that the catalyzer is a
    key element, otherwise it would be really easy for anybody to reproduce this
    process, that going by the patent is quite simple. I can’t imagine how it is
    possible to patent a process where a key element is unspecified. I mean that
    even if the patent request will be accepted, I do not think it will protect your invention.
    Imagine that a person that will succesfully reproduce your process, identifing the correct “catalyzer” to be used. This person could claim that the substance he uses as “catalyzer” is an his own discover, and he could also patent it, given that in your patent it is not specified what it is.
    Really puzzling, at least for me…
    Best wishes, L…”

    A: ”

    Andrea Rossi

    31st, 2011 at 7:55 AM

    Dear Mr L… M……..,
    We made a specific patent for the catalyzers.
    Our patent system is quite complex.
    Warm regards,

    And at a later date Mr. Rossi says regarding the catalyzer patent..”….this patent is still non disclosed to the public.”

  • Omega Z

    Why Not
    They patented a rectangle…
    Never heard the results on the court battle on that one.

  • Christopher Calder

    This article makes sense. I think the original E-Cat used potassium carbonate. The Hot-Cat may indeed use lithium hydride or something similar.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      As far as I know, the analyzed material came from one of the older E-Cats. The question is then why they did not find any potassium. Theoretically, the catalyst could be separated from the nickel powder, but it seems not likely.

  • Harold Baker

    Thank you for such an excellent informative post. Mike McKubre has mentioned some of the same requirements for LENR, especially particle size, and hydrogen loading times, but not the presence of lithium.
    Whatever the mechanism, LENR has never been more critical to our very survival. A recent news article mentions the EPA underestimated the amount of methane being released by fracking by3 orders of magnitude. Thousands of times more methane is being released into our atmosphere, than they originally estimated. Methane is a gas which is 30 times more efficient at trapping heat than carbon dioxide. We MUST stop this madness.

  • LENR G

    I agree. There will likely be some negative impacts as well economically at least in the the short/medium term, but in the long run the E-Cat is a huge economic win.

  • Job001

    Deuterium is a normal trace element in hydrogen……not sure any conclusion is right here.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Maybe it’s something like the following reaction that was done with a Cockcroft-Walton accelerator in 1931.
    Li(7) + H(1) > He(4) + He(4) 17.3 MeV
    Maybe it’s the other way around. Lithium is the reactant and nickel is the catalyst.
    By the way, we did have a little chat about lithium last year.

    • Alan DeAngelis


      I couldn’t resist doing the calculation. If 19.2 milligram of natural lithium (that is 92.5% Li-7) underwent the above reaction it would have the energy equivalent of one ton of TNT.

      Another one from Stanley Kubrick.

  • Obvious

    Rossi specifically denied the use of Raney nickel (JoNP Jan 27, 2011, 5:37 pm).

    Hydroxides are a useful way to introduce elements that would be too dangerous to try and use in a pure state or as more reactive simple compounds. The H and O could be easily disassociated from the hydroxide with heat and H, (making water vapor which is flushed out), after mixing and insertion into the device.

  • GreenWin

    A very good summary Rick. Thank you. Since reading the Ikegami and Pettersson paper on chemonuclear reactions in liquid Li, the element seemed a tall candidate for E-Cat catalyst. Note in the following interview with Dr. Pettersson at one of Rossi’s E-Cat demos (2011), he speaks of adjusting equipment and materials.

    • Rick Allen

      Thank you. I think it is highly likely that lithium is used somehow. My hope is that the report will list all elements in the reactor. With that info, even if all the data about how the elements are processed is not included, researchers could start some serious replication attempts. I’m just curious, how likely do you think it is that lithium is a catalyst? I think the strongest evidence is that it was found in the sample tested.

  • Alan Smith

    Well done Rick Allen – a great round up of the current thinking.

  • LENR G

    I’m standing up a new page on LENR For the Win:
    Assessing the Uppsala E-Cat Report

    I welcome any feedback.

    Considerations to add?


    • barty

      You could add a reference to that at the thread on
      It seems david has a very good source for his information ;)

      • LENR G

        OK. I added a link to it on that E-Cat report ready thread.

    • LENR G

      Admin, you’re free to make the page a guest post if you can figure out how to grab it (iframe?). I’d love to have a community consensus develop on what’s important to look for before the report comes out, so the more eyeballs and comments the better.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      What’s your problem with Levi? Is it his fault that the pseudoskeptics bashed him?

      • LENR G

        I don’t have any problem with him and no it’s not his fault.

        Nevertheless if he had a significant role it may lessen the impact of the report for obvious reasons.

    • artefact

      Specific Energy: < possible chemical energy = fail

  • Fortyniner

    I agree with Rick’s surmise – in fact I have suggested (several times!) on this blog that addition of lithium hydride as a hydrogen source may well have been Rossi’s ‘serendipitous’ moment, when he discovered that his warm cat suddenly became very hot! Ikegami’s findings lend support to this idea.

    As far as ‘stirring the pot’ with RF goes, that may be the case now but I believe Rossi probably used a simple 60Hz oscillating field in the early days (the ‘secondary’ band heater/induction coil) – another serendipitous discovery possibly arising from an attempt to do away with the resistance heater by using an external induction heater.

    • Rick Allen

      There are multiple possibilities. If lithium is a catalyst, he could have used it from the start. He may have mixed it in with nickel or used it to coat the walls of the reactor. Later on, after being introduced to Ikegami’s work, he could have used it in a different way, alloyed it, etc. By the way, he was able to get high temperatures from the start. However, the reactors would melt down. For example, consider the 18 hour test performed by Dr Levy. In that test it is reported that the wall of the reactor very from 600 to 1000 degrees Celsius. But it was going out of control and Rossi made him lower the output power.

      • Fortyniner

        It may be that other light metals or their salts can act as catalysts, but with rather less efficiency than lithium. The Patterson cell and others used potassium carbonate, so perhaps AR used that in the ‘warm cat’ prototypes, before settling on lithium or whatever mix he currently uses.

    • GreenWin

      In past posts we have discussed the presence of Dr. Pettersson at a Bologna E-Cat demo. It suggests to me an entirely speculative association between Rossi and Ikegami’s chemonuclear theory. More interesting even than the theory, is the Scandinavian source. It would appear that perhaps Dr. Rossi made an adroit pact with our northern friends. And has won.

    • onceinawhiler

      “under an activation by corona discharge or electron or light irradiation” … or RF field?

      • Fortyniner

        HT electricity has obvious utility as an ioniser, likewise intense UV. RF/EM fields may have direct magnetostrictive effects on ferromagnetic matrices – i.e., the nickel. Alternatively I suppose, it may be about generation of phonons/standing waves – who knows.

        Unfortunately I would’t expect any crucial information to be included in the coming report (IH will probably be careful to screen any clues out before publication), and the Rossi reactor is likely to continue to be a ‘black box’ for some time to come.

    • oaklandthinktank

      Perhaps a few more insights – Ikegami proposed magnesium as an initial reactant, creating surfaces which absorb LiH better than H2, because LiH is polarized. These deposit atomic H at the grain-sites, and form ‘gaps’ (perhaps, similar to the Pd-vacancies Swartz observed in his magnetic-flux treated phusors?). To light the H-H fusion, which feeds D-D fusion in the Ni core, you need a source of energy – Ikegami is supposing that this energy creates Li+ ions swirling around Mg2NiH4 grains, passing H like a bucket line. Hagelstein’s lossy-spin model, relying on phonon-coupling, is a good explanation for jostling H- and Li+, as well as kicking the H-H together on the grains of Nickle and Magnesium. If you play a SET of frequencies, you could generate vibrations which assist LiH -> H- Li+, H-H -> D, and D-D -> He. (…Li-H -> 2He?) Broadcast a catchy song, and the room heats up. :)

      It’s confounding to see a convergence around something you guess blindly, so this Li, Mg, EM frequency stuff has me jittery… since the ACS conference in SF 2010, when I started looking deeper into LENR/CANR, I have made a few stupidly wild predictions. I’ll record the remainder for posterity, I suppose – there’s no reason to believe anything without proof…
      my wild speculations:
      – Oxygen isn’t the best H-source. In fact, with Lithium in the mix, oxygen spoils the reaction. (LiO = sad.) N & B are better candidate elements – they hold more H, and are more willing to give H to Li. (“NH3 -> H waterfall into the Li+ bucket line…”)
      – The cascade of absorption has room to grow. Li-H -> 2He and similar reactions may support a solid-state chemical structure which can generate fusion with room-temperature phonons. Look at Ca, next in line after Mg – it was key to Mitsubishi & Toyota reactions. When do you need Rb or Ba? (…and what about Ba(NH3)6?)
      – Hagelstein is right. Phonons couple to energy of fusion. H.A.D., laser-ignition, benefits of ultrasound (an oscillation of pressure, creating a flux of H between vacancies), and the frequencies observed (corresponding to Pd-Pd, H-H, H-Hinv vibrations) point to phonons. And, we’ll be using magnetic flux to induce these vibrations. We’ll get the best results when the lattice propagates these phonons coherently.
      – Carbon is an ideal backbone for Ni lattices. It is strong, heat-tolerant, transmits phonons very well, and carbon surfaces are excellent channels for surface plasmons… A carbon nanotube is the ideal phusor filament. Coat the carbon with Ni via Ni(CO)4 gas – a heat process in the 180C-200C range. We may not need perfect fibers, either – with a field generating H-flux and phonons, we could see high reaction rates from lampblack. I’d just use pyrolyzed wood with the best grain size and density.
      – Carbon could go a lot further. Those fusion-phonon couplings could be combined with graphene’s potential for lasing… it provides THz pulses when fed by an IR laser. Fusion -> Phonons -> Lasing -> Fusion? And, make a lot of tiny ones with gates… your THz transistors are powered by on-board fusion-driven lasers! ( – who wants erbium-colored glasses?)

      • oaklandthinktank

        btw, our microwave ovens produce waves tuned to jitter water molecules… what frequency would cause LiH to jitter?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    In your patents you seem to plead for superconductivity by electron Cooper pairs. Do you think that proton superconductivity could be a second option?

  • georgehants

    I think Mr. Rossi is still feeling happy.
    Andrea Rossi
    April 14th, 2014 at 10:02 PM

    • Andreas Moraitis
      • georgehants

        Andreas, good find, as Wayne M. said on the last page “Hope springs eternal.”
        I mentioned to Admin that he should put up a page asking for guesses as to how many posts he gets on the day that the report is released.
        I will guess, 287.

        • ecatworld

          I would guess probably more than that, George

          • georgehants

            ecatworld, how do we get some cash into this, Ha.

            • mcloki

              We should have a e-Cat fund that lists publicly traded companies that arise to take advantage of this phenomenon.

            • GreenWin

              Buy e-catworld merchandise, including Barry’s music and scrimshaw work.

          • clovis ray

            There were so many hits it shut down the site for awhile, did it not.

            • ecatworld

              Hi Clovis, that has happened in the past, but I am hopeful my current server and setup will be able to handle a spike in traffic.

      • ecatworld

        Thanks, Andreas. Maybe someone has some inside info. David Nygren is in Sweden, I believe — and the image is of Uppsala University where a number of the authors of last year’s report are working.

        • barty

          I just asked david for more information. I’m a bit confused what this statement should tell us.

      • LENR G

        Here’s what’s at the end of the link:

        Ecat report ready – Long time test, almost here!
        5 hours ago+1

        Within a few weeks we should see an increased interest in the field, we will also see more curious from both the media and the stock market.

        If we receive this great reslutat, many will start anlysera how this can affect our world.

    • Iggy Dalrymple
      • georgehants

        Iggy, now that looks just like me, on a good day, Ha.

  • Omega Z

    As to #3 there is a frequency control
    Type unknown
    consistent or variable unknown

    Also, some type of resistance or impedance feedback is monitored by the control box allowing the control module to react accordingly to what is happening in the reactor.
    All done thru the same lines that feed power.

    Also according to some of Rossi’s correspondence on JONP, The E-cat does create some type of radioactive output while in operation, but dissipates very fast. Something with a very short half life.
    Seems I came across a certain Nickle isotope that fit this description. A minute or several minutes. By the time the cat is shut down where 1 could access it, It is safe.

    As to Roland Pettersson & Ikegami’s at Uppsala, I was aware of that. I don’t recall if I read it while Following here at ECW or if Frank actually had a thread related to this. Been quite a while. I wondered then if Rossi was aware as Roland Pettersson had been to 1 of Rossi’s demo’s I believe,

    • Omega Z

      Something I came across on JONP was a discussion in which Rossi indicates using the heaters can actually lower the temperature inside the Reactor Core.

      • Fortyniner

        By feeding the heater coils with a different (damping) frequency perhaps?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    What about

    3He + 4He + n –> 7Li + p + 3.74 MeV ?

  • Steve H

    An excellent post Rick.
    I have also just finished reading Mats book but didn’t see the correlation.
    In light of your comments – Rossi’s previous statements begin to make some sense:-

    Rossi previously stated that the Cat is inside the Mouse. That the Mouse plays with the whiskers of the Cat.
    This tit-bit of information could explain the reactor walls coated with Lithium (Mouse) and the specially prepared Nickel particles with tubercules (the Cat inside, with whiskers).

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Normally, lithium hydride starts to decompose at 900 – 1000 ºC. If I understood Ikegami correctly, under the described conditions it dissociates already at room temperature. But he uses also gaseous H2, as Rossi did in his early reactors. The question is how Rossi can now go without it. Maybe the H2 in Ikegami’s experiment is only required in order to maintain a sufficient pressure. Rossi could provide that pressure by heating the system up, but since there is no longer a hydrogen supply, one would expect that the pressure drops significantly when the reactor runs for several months. Either Rossi must have found a way to seal it perfectly – which is perhaps possible, but surely difficult –, or the H-Cat works at low pressures of not much more than 1 bar. That would at the same time facilitate the certification.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Or he pressurizes with air or some other gas, but not hydrogen.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The catalyst will not be allowed out of the bag until the product is ready to market, since the process is not patented. Once you sell the devices there is nothing to stop buyers from opening them for analysis, so there is no benefit in secrecy any longer. Then there may be benefit in establishing prior claim for when theory supports patenting. It is possible that the theory could precede sales, but I doubt the theory will be accepted before the reality of the process gains acceptance through sales.

    • friendlyprogrammer

      The catalyst won’t be revealed by Rossi you mean. Obviously if Lithium is the catalyst then Ikegami among others are trying it in their labs as we speak.

      I have often said Rossis obsession with secrecy even in his patent applications might be his downfall. If someone patents a ecat like device using lithium (if that is catalyst) then they should win the rights to the patent that uses Lithium as a catalyst.

      Alexander Bell was not afraid to let people see inside his telephone. Because it had patent protection.

      Even if the patent office refuses to grant a patent. If the device started getting mass produced then someone who had applied for a patent first could sue for the rights.

      Rossi went public in 2011 with the ecat. He started the patent races, and there are now 20+ companies building their own LENR devices (where’s that list? I know it’s over 20 now though).

      If he wanted secrecy and to file additional patents before releasing the ecat he should never have spent a year publicly demonstrating it. Now the invention belongs to the first person to stumble upon the catalyst. The ecat itself sounds like nothing more than a hollow tube with less moving parts than a dollar store flashlight. The catalyst is the ecat.

      I would be happy if the catalyst was revealed. I would feel bad for Rossi, but better for mankind. I would not hesitate to saw an ecat down the middle if I had the opportunity and steal the contents for analysis. People are dying because of Smog, GW, and lack of energy for desalination, etc..

      If I lived near IH, id probably just steal their mail and look at what ingredients show up on purchase invoices, or pay off one of their suppliers I see on the mail envelope.

      • Ophelia Rump

        My understand is that Bell stole the invention by jumping the patent claim.
        At any rate that was in dispute at the time, so much for security through patent divulgence.

        Your idea for stealing their mail is amusing! You are very practical.

        • friendlyprogrammer

          Yes. I realize there was controversy with Bell Patent and Gray. I mentioned that recently and someone pointed out Meucci had let theirs Patent Caveat expire because of a $10 fee, but had a similar invention on file and Bell would not be issued a patent if Meucci had renewed it. It is this type of Feuding I see as in the Tesla/Marconi radio inventor. Tesla won, but I grew up thinking it was Marconi.

          It actually looks like a guy named Innocenzo Manzetti invented one years earlier, but was also busy making first Zamboni and Inventing Steam Cars and never got a patent for it.

          Manzetti/Meucci/Marconi/Rossi… Italians love to invent.

          First off.. Can the combination of several chemicals and adding heat be called an invention? The Patent office said this could possibly occur in nature. If this proves true then the money would be in the products and bi-products.

          The courts will have dozens of claims that they invented it. Piantelli and The Patterson Cell seem to be the earliest of the Nickel based versions, plus the redemption of Pons/Fleischmann (RIP). Fleischmann was ostracized to Japan from the debacle, at least Toyota hired him and respected his work.

          Yes. I would “clean” (out) IH very nicely.

          • Ophelia Rump

            The money will go to the first adopters who use the high rate of return to feed a process of plowing the investment back into more power production installations for the first few years.

            The same thing happened to the company with the ability to print solar cells like paper. They had their first ten years of production pre-sold to a consortium for use in their power production fields, they got a share in the consortium too, sweet deal all around. Unless you wanted to power your home for a little lower cost.

            • friendlyprogrammer

              I’m sort of hoping they will have LENR replace Oil. I’m not as excited about its use for commercial Electricity. I want 200′ LENR powered ship to retire on and zip across the 7 seas and back.

              • Ophelia Rump

                I want a LENR Hot air Zeppelin estate to retire to. Horticultural gardens and heated swimming pool on top.

              • GreenWin

                A very nice idea. Zero refueling or shore-power required.

                • friendlyprogrammer

                  A generator is still required and it is not for motor power (it is a sailboat), but it recharges the batteries quite a bit.

          • MasterBlaster7

            The “cold fusion” patent rejections are unique. There are special rejection protocols put in place for “cold fusion” and “perpetual motion machines”. If a LENR commercial product emerges…it will be the first time, that I know of, that a special protocol would be overturned. My thinking is, that all of the patents submitted on LENR will be retroactively-activated, and patent protection will be granted in the original order, by date, of rejected LENR patent applications. So, the question is…if it is a lithium catalyst…was Rossi the first to submit a patent with the lithium catalyst? This could be the makings of the first retroactive patent trolls…looking at you jet energy haha….play nice…this is important stuff for the peoples.

            • friendlyprogrammer

              It is my understanding he generalized about possible catalysts, but was not specific. If you were to copy his patent exactly and add Lithium just based on this article you might stand a chance of winning the rights.
              But I have no idea what will pass muster.

              • MasterBlaster7

                Oh I see. I didn’t know that. It makes sense. You want to make your claims as broad as possible. Hmmmm. Probably a lot of overlaping claims like that for rejected LENR patents. Man…I hope this doesn’t turn into a patent troll mess once a commercial product is viable. If you want to talk conspiracy theories….25 years of scuttling the Pons and Fleishman work….special bans from the patent office…then another 25 years of digging out of patent litigation. Man I hope the various LENR companies play nice after a successful commercial product….god that would suck if it went the other way….the way things often do.

          • Private Citizen

            >The courts will have dozens of claims that they invented it.

            Patent trolling & claims of prior art could slow implementation of LENR. The chapter of the story about to open will be fascinating.

            • GreenWin

              Mills’ patent on “Lower Energy Hydrogen Methods…” granted in 2000, originated one month after P&F in 1989. It is a highly detailed and comprehensive patent on all manner of catalyzed induced hydrino transitions CIHT. This granted USPTO # 6,024,935 patent (499 claims) will arguably be the underlying “art” in many or all of these chemo-nuclear reaction applications.

              Who is this guy Mills? :)

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          About the telephone: Antonio Meucci would have been the real inventor…

          History is often written (manipulated and taught) by the ‘winner’.

    • Omega Z

      This has floated around for quite along while & still nothing definite from anyone.
      It’s possible that Lithium is just part of a recipe.
      Rossi has never specified a single catalyst per say. Just Catalyst.