More Progress on Alan Smith’s HHO Experiment Setup [Updated]

Alan Smith of Leap Forward Laboratory Ltd. provides his latest update on the experimental setup he is building for his experiment with HHO gas/Catalyzer that ECW is sponsoring.

UPDATE: This is the latest from Alan

HHO Calorimetry Experiments still moving forward. This the (almost) complete system, waiting for some more hook-up tubing. Electrolyzer and a Polycarbonate blast protector. Gas production and gas-drier (orange cylinder) on the right of the shot and immersion calorimetry tank on the left. Tomorrow plan to make the first ‘set-up video’ working through the system item by item, from ‘water in’ to ‘warmth out’.

LFLlab
This is the ‘HHO’ generator build underway for the calorimetry experiments sponsored by E-Cat World. Awaiting the ‘bubbler’ stage which will sit on top of the electrolyzer-cell shown. The bubbler allows the gas bubbles and the electrolyte (KOH+ water) to separate one from t’other. Gas comes up through the holes in the recessed top-plate of the cell, and any electrolyte carried over can return the same way. This is not a ‘high-efficiency wet cell’ but designed to be a versatile unit capable of reasonable output. 5 ‘316’ stainless plates around 6″x6″ (15x15cms) means plenty of surface area, and reasonable spacing between plates allow plenty of space for free movement of gases and liquids inside the cell. Progress took a bit of a knock this last few days -family matters had to take priority – but we will soon be back on track to start the experiments into the comparitive calorimetery of ‘HHO’ naked flame combustion as against catalytic re-combination. Alan Smith calorimeter 003 calorimeter 005

  • Marcus Haber

    Hello!

    The progress is really amazing!

    maybe this paper is useful for the experiment

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1202/1202.6603.pdf

    regards Marcus

  • Iggy Dalrymple
  • Obvious

    I suppose I been guilty of being facetious enough myself…

  • jousterusa

    The best plates are made of titanium, and for them the best electrolyte is ammonia. See http://www.moregowithhho.com for more. For the latest HHO research, see my site, hhogames.com and look for work by Ed Grimm, Richard Keough and Dr. Howard Phillips.

    • FrankM

      Would this invention possibly work better with lithium coated pistons and cylinders? ;)

      • FrankM

        Or nickel coated pistons and lithium coated cylinders?

  • Obvious

    Rather than guessing, we will know after the experiment is done.
    If you could kindly supply a nickel-based catalytic convertor, that might experiment might be undertaken and we could see how well that works.
    I assume that nickel isn’t used on cars due to the high potential for toxic fumes, besides efficiency issues.

  • Obvious

    Excellent work, Alan. I look forward to the results with great anticipation.

  • Daniel Maris

    Great progress – love your can-do attitude.

  • JDM

    Graphite electrodes can also be used. Thicker so they take up more room. They don’t have the chromium or rusting issues. They do break down to fines after a while. Reasonably inexpensive.

  • JC

    Alan, MMO electrodes are used over the long term in swimming pools. You might be able to find plates, but I’ve only used grids. Typically they are titanium coated with a mix of different metals. The titanium resists corrosion and the mixed metal allows for the conductivity. You should be able to find some on ebay. Using stainless steel will fill your electrolytic cell with rust after a few days and the plates will dissolve.

    • Fortyniner

      Pure titanium sheets are used in many ‘HHO’ electrolysis cells and can be found in 150mm pre-cut squares on ebay for a few quid each in various thicknesses, e.g., item # 221424489505.

  • Alan Smith

    Fired up the electrolyzer just now. Looks to be drawing about 400Watts, but that is using a 35V power supply. I am switching over to using a 12V 150A supply that should be much more suitable. But- no shortage of gas!

    • Andreas Moraitis

      OK, then my reservation was unfounded. Perhaps you use only a small concentration of KOH. Keep on with your good work!

  • Alan Smith

    Thanks Justin. I have enough 316 to make another set – but hopefully these will see us through phase one. Could you tell me a bit more about mixed metal oxide plates?

  • JC

    Stainless steel can be a very bad choice for electrodes in electrolysis. It literally dissolves away as it oxidizes. Mixed metal oxide electrodes work much better. I’ve done over 100 electrolysis experiments and had to abandon stainless steel. You can probably get several days or even a week of operation, but you’ll have to replace the electrodes.

  • Alan Smith

    Another thought. Depending on what the results are, I can see a whole line of additional experiments stacking up behind this one. So for that reason I have ordered a high-temperature K-type thermocouple to monitor the cat temperature, and arranged the loan of a neutron/gamma detector. All good clean fun.

  • Alan Smith

    Ps…Five plates, 4 gaps. Top edge of the plates doesn’t count for area as not immersed, sides are a push fit into grooves in the tank, so to my mind hardly count. 4 x 8mm gaps means 8 plate surfaces that really matter, so plate area is 15x15x8 cms = 1800 sq cms.

  • Alan Smith

    Hi. Thanks for your comments- crank-up time is approaching which will answer a lot of questions. I can throw up to 20A at this easily, so not anticipating any problems. Today’s job is making the spring-loaded blow-out/safety valve and the copper gas-cooling tower it sits on top of. Cooling the gas will reduce the water-vapour concentration before it goes through the gas-drier. Don’t forget that I can reduce the electrolyte concentration if required, part-fill the cell, alter the applied voltage and do some other things too. Plate spacing is around 8mm btw. We are not looking for much over 1l/minute. Should be entirely possible.

    This is similar to an electrolyzer I built as a teenager, and I can’t remember any horrendous problems with that- but it was a long-time ago.

    The job as whole has grown as it has gone along, mainly because we all need to be sure of the results – so the spec and the precision of the equipment has been steadily upped -and the initial budget somewhat left behind :-( – since day 1. Fortunately I have a very understanding wife!

    Sterling’s valiant efforts to produce a rapid result over on Peswiki have not really shed much light, some might say the opposite, but pre-judging the result is in my mind no way to do a proper scientific investigation. So I thank all of you for your patience, continued interest and comments, and will continue to give this my best shot every day.

    • Daniel Maris

      Thanks for the progress report, Alan. I am sure everyone here will be excited to hear how things go when you begin the experiments.

    • clovis ray

      Thank you Alan, for the update, everything is going along smoothly hoping for a enlighten
      conclusion .

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Nice apparatus, Alan. I made some calculations about the inner resistance of this device, but the result looks strange to me.

    My source is http://teetz.homepage.t-online.de/Formeln_Elektrolyse.pdf (in German)

    Calculation for T = 20º (Resistance will decrease at higher temperatures.)

    A [electrode area] = 2*(15cm^2) = 550 cm^2
    d [electrode distance] = 1 cm
    χ [specific conductivity of electrolyte] = 0.185/(Ω*cm), for 1-M KOH in H2O

    R [resistance of the cell] = (d/A)* χ^-1 = 9.828*10^-3 Ω

    That would mean that you get theoretically 101.75 A per Volt. Either I made a mistake or you must borrow the seam welder from Dr. Mills.

    • US_Citizen71

      My mark one eyeball tells me your value for the electrode distance is too large try again with 5mm as the distance.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        With 5 mm you get half the resistance. By the way, I’m not sure if the surface area must be calculated for one or both electrodes of each cell. (I’ve taken the single value, but for 2 cells.) Maybe one of the experts here can clarify that.

        • US_Citizen71

          I think you likely need to at minimum double your area value even if you are only calculating 2 plates. The total surface area would be both sides of the plate plus the long thin sides which if you assume .5mm thickness of the plate you need to add 3 cm2 for each plate (4 x 15mm x .5mm).

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Some parameters are still unclear. Actually, there seem to be 4 cells, not 2. Besides we don’t know the filling level. In any case, if the calculation method is in priciple correct, one would need a very strong power supply to run that device.

            • US_Citizen71

              If you double the the surface area as well as change the electrode distance you are down to about 25 amps per volt. meaning 12 volts x 25 amps = 300 watts or about the same power supply needed to charge a laptop.

              • Andreas Moraitis

                Sorry, but if you had 25 amps per volt you would get 300 amps for 12 volts and a power of 12V*300A = 3600 W.

                • US_Citizen71

                  You’re correct, I was assuming your value was resistance not conductance, I need to learn to read more carefully.

  • Bertuswonkel

    looks nice. Can this cell also separate hydrogen and the oxygen?
    I saw a cell where the cathode and the anode are contained in class tubes within the cell.
    This way you could also compare the effects of just oxygen, just hydrogen and the HHO gas.