The Industrial Heat Web of Connections includes GE, Others

Thanks to Mr. Moho for the following post which provides a feasible link between Industrial Heat LLC, and GE. The Tom Darden patent for a distributed energy system mentioned in a post here yesterday lists the co-inventor as James Kevin (Jim) Syperski, who is CEO of a Raleigh, North Carolina company called Power Generation Services, Inc., which describes itself as “a turnkey provider of managed energy services for Distributed Generation and Distributed Energy Resources to Market Participants, Municipal Power Agencies, Cooperatives, and commercial customers in North America.” Earlier this year PGS announced that GE had made a ‘strategic investment’ in the company, as part of its commitment to developing distributed energy systems.(http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ge-invests-in-power-generation-services-inc-242463781.html)

In a comment on the previous thread Mr. Moho provides some useful and interesting connections below:

“On that Cobraf forum thread about Rossi a user posted a cropped Rossi/IH social network graph, here: http://www.cobraf.com/forum/to…

“It appears that GE might be more related to them than one would think:http://www.cobraf.com/forum/im…

“I guess the GE link came from this press release posted by another user: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ge-invests-in-power-generation-services-inc-242463781.html

“Darden’s daughter works there, apparently: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/elizabeth-wooten/10/782/52a  (she got recently married and changed her last name to Wooten. Again, this info is from Cobraf and there’s a source for it: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/02/16/3626837/wooten-darden.html

“Furthermore, if you look at the bottom of the Thomas Darden patent linked here on ECW: http://www.google.com/patents/US20130076140

“And here too (as linked on Cobraf):
http://www.google.com/patents/US20130079943
http://www.google.com/patents/US20130076140

“You can see that the patent owner is “Causam Energy, Inc”. They (and its CEO Joseph Forbes, one of the listed inventors) own a number of patents on distributed energy generation.

“In their website here: http://www.causamenergy.com/

“They also list “GE Digital Energy” and “Power Generation http://www.causamenergy.com/Services, Inc.” as their customers”.

While we can’t know who knows what about the E-Cat, and how involved they are, it’s clear that Tom Darden is a very well connected person within the energy industry, and I would imagine he will be exploring ways to make use of these connections in furthering Industrial Heat’s goals for the E-Cat. Also, the Industrial Heat press release announcing it’s acquisition of the E-Cat invited companies and organizations interested in partnering with IH to get in touch. Who knows what kind of response they have had to that invitation.

  • LENR G

    Money motivates the behavior of corporations big and small and most individuals too. When I wrote the comment I was mainly thinking about the rush to judgment by nuclear scientists who had no interest in seeing their (some very large) research budgets challenged.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    You make a key point.

    the big bosses , and we see it, are just agnostic about technology. Total fund windmills, BP fund Greenpeace.
    Big boss can fire all their workers, dump their assets when LENr came, and hire new staff, buy new assets, and they are studying the question (Exxon, Shell, Amocco, Toyota, mitsubishi, STMicro)… for now they are delusioned by mainstream, but more open than average.

    I am much more afraid of the reaction of workers unions, of governments monopolies, of oligarc, or oil countries who have nothing to sales else oil…
    guess why Poutine is funding friends of Greenpeace to oppose shale gas and nuke in europe?

    In france I am more afraid of the reaction of EDF/ErDF/GDF/GrDF (gas&electric grid and ex-monopoly)electric workers union than of Total/Areva.

    • LENR G

      I don’t know what life is like in France, Alain, but in the US every other commercial is about the wonders of natural gas and anti-science know-nothings control research budgets in Congress. Our corporations and billionaires have increasing say over everything and they are very good at protecting their revenue streams.

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        here the commercial are green with wind mills and solar panel…
        the cartoons for kids save the planet from evil oil and tree cutters…
        evil anti-science corrupted greezy lobbyists challenge heroic know-all scientists…

    • atanguy

      Hey Alain! Your zeal to defend nuclear fission and shale gas and attack Greenpeace and union workers makes you blind. Putin did not give money to Greenpeace,he put their protesters in jail: http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131219/185727684/Putin-Says-Greenpeace-Group-Jailing-Should-Serve-as-Lesson.html
      Vous dites n’importe quoi..

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        One does not exclude the other… There is no friend or foes, just interests.

        The (indirect) funding report I’ve seen was much before the attack…

        maybe counter communication by GP against some bad buzz that was spreading about their joint effort.

        the episode you talk about have washed away the buzz…

        Just found some more general discussion

        http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/15/its-always-difficult-to-tell-whether-greenpeace-is-deliberately-misleading-or-simply-deluded/

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/26/why-putin-hates-fracking.html

        Read the careful words about the de-facto alliance.

        If you imagine some manipulation by NSA, imagine NGO can do it for free with motivated journalists… GP is a reference in mass communication. I’ve never seen someone able to do a better job, and use media so well.

        like the campaign against cold fusion have been done for free, because there is things that even money cannot buy, but there is nothing than the feeling of morality cannot push you to do how unethical it is.

        • atanguy

          I read the links that you have proposed: There are obviously propaganda from the gas shale lobby – Of course no mention of this technology on the environment: Especially,water pollution.
          And no mention either of Putin financing Greenpeace, except in your imagination it seems.
          The author of Forbes does compare the Fukushima radioactivity leak to the ocean, to radioactivity from 76 Million Bananas – A little black (or maybe yellow) humor I suppose. I see how serious is the source of your information.
          Do you write this for free?

          • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

            because greenpeace is not obvious propaganda, spreading false informations, exaggerations, hate message, metadisinformations, ?

            it is a war, we should not be innocents.
            GP makes a war against technology, and use all they can, including lies because nobody can critics them.
            they are the king of metadisinformation… when any critics is considered as propaganda…

            simply the facts dissent. Of course there is still some problems, but the scaremongering is fascinating…
            even some ex-member , founders, have explained Greenpeace was getting ballistic.

            the facts dissent.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          the manipulation by Russia to oppose fracking is confirmed

          http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-secretly-working-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking

          note that in US some group pretended to represent Saudi in meeting with enviros , to oppose fracking, they clearly state their intent was to fight US energetic independence, and the enviro accepted the money to depend their cause. i agree it is a nasty method, and that accepting the money is just a temporary alliance of common interest, but we see that nothing prevent that kind of alliance…

          la fin justifie les moyens, as we say.

  • Steve H

    After reading most threads and links + my own knowledge:-

    I suspect that AR has been working with steam turbines, as opposed to jet engines, and the wording has become lost in translation.
    It is also likely that he did not mean GE in particular,.

    Warm regards to all.

  • Doktor Bob

    An interesting approach towards Hot Fusion:
    http://www.ted.com/talks/michel_laberge_how_synchronized_hammer_strikes_could_generate_nuclear_fusion?

    A few quotes:
    “To create Nuclear Fusion you need a ping pong ball and 150 million degree celsius”
    “It took 3 years for the politicians just to decide where to put the ITER”

    The design / animation reminds me intuitively about Sonoluminescence. They did get 15 million funding for developing their idea, which is positive. Competition is good. Lets hope they do well!

  • Bernie777
  • Andrew

    I watched a show last night about Clair Patterson and Robert Kehoe’s paradigm of “show me the data”. Where Patterson was fighting to remove lead from gasoline because of the health risks and Robert Kehoe (working for the big money) constantly throwing out doubt about the risks saying there is no proof. This (in my mind) parallels this story quite well. Patterson fought for 20 years to get big corporations to stop poisoning the public. For all the people that think there isn’t/wasn’t a conspiracy against cold fusion I suggest reading into this story as it shows that when it comes to money, the people that have it will do anything to keep it and throw doubt onto anyone that challenges the status quo.

    • LENR G

      Follow the money.

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        be careful about the manipulation about that argument.
        today Greepeace, WWF, freind of earth, are worth a billion a year, which is full PR , not counting benevolent journalists who do the job for free, not counting film directors, photographers, and all green industry…

        all that system if ù dependent of that ideology.

        Oil have more money, but smaller PR, and they are not afraid to lose their business instantly… just reduce volume of sales.
        they support AGW theory, just asking for more subsidies to adapt, CO2 capture, carbon permits to sales….

  • Bernie777

    Frank….Good question and a very important one word answer from Rossi, “yes”. I think it means GE involvement.

    • Omega Z

      No,
      Rossi was indicating that type of turbine is being studied for e-cat utilization. What it does make me wonder about. Is who are they studying this for.

      Seriously. The Cat best fits a steam turbine.
      A Gas or Jet turbine operates with hot gases flowing thru them sucking external air thru at the same time to keep from melting or damaging the turbine blades. Even steam turbines require demineralized/distilled water to minimize blade damage(Scaling).
      Some info don’t quite fit…

      • US_Citizen71

        I could be GE. A donation of turbine to test gets them in on the data and keeps them informed. If it becomes marketable they are in on the ground floor and get to sell turbines. Their involvement may be nothing more than supplier of the turbine through commerce as well.

        You can’t use a steam turbine in the desert or other areas that are short on water without increasing operational expense. A gas turbine doesn’t have that problem. In truth the ECat only has to provide as much energy as natural gas does in a similar sized area as the combustion area of a gas fired one in order to make it work. The combustion of CH4 with 2 O2 still nets 3 molecules CO2 and 2 H2O so there is no large increase in volume of gas only temperature. Running a closed cycle gas through the setup would eliminate some maintenance issues and create others. Using air would be the cheapest installation cost school of design, but could be expensive in the long run due to maintenance.

        • Omega Z

          US
          Your possibly right. I had considered some type of closed loop system. even with lower efficiencies, it may offset the cost of building in an area of limited water resources.
          This would likely be a necessity for economical Micro-Grids as the fuel is cheap, but the hardware for low water use is not.

          I’ve also considered that this would be invaluable information for NASA/Boeing before they set off on their research for LENR Aircraft.
          Their 1st Real World Data from a LENR product. The time & money saved could be huge.

      • Fortyniner

        A steam turbine using instantaneous evaporation of water instead of a boiler would fit the bill. A spray of water onto a very hot e-cat core might take the place of sprayed fuel burning in a combustion chamber in a modified jet engine or gas turbine.

  • BroKeeper

    GE is positioning itself for restructuring. Here in Cincinnati they are hiring 1400 people for a new Finance and Information Technology Operations Center. GE also has a heavy aviation engine manufacturing presence.

  • Omega Z

    It’s likely that had they not trashed P&F, this technology would have come about much quicker. But it would still have taken years. P&F both continued to work on this for years afterwards..

    We need to keep in mind that the technology at the time was a major hold up.(The Emergence of Nano technology opened the door) But if the Science community had jumped in, instead of jumping on P&F, Likely this would have been well on it’s way by 2K.

    • Job001

      Those are the normal assumptions. Con-travailing facts;
      Necessary nano-technology improvements after 2000
      Vastly more difficult process than commonly perceived
      Technology – low reward commodity vs monopoly market slows investment
      Control issues were recognized late after 2000 as COP levels rose
      Unknown theory made focus difficult, research scattered
      Engineering, certification, publication, patent issues made the going slow
      Most people seemed to think this was a simple process – not at all!

  • Alain Samoun

    Why are you talking so much about GE? The other day I ordered a CF reactor on line,I received the kit quickly it’s made by an inventor called Smith,it’s an open source device, anybody can improve the reactor,no license or patent to worry about. When started the reactor produces a very bright light, like 50,000 suns so I bought a few PV panels to put around et voila! I produce my own electricity for my family and my friends no need of grids mini or smart. I also get plenty of heat that I use to heat or cool my house and even get my greenhouse going that produces all my vegetables I also use the electricity to charge the batteries of my quadrycoptere. I’m planning to make some beer and grapa with my electric still.

    I recommend Smith’s reactor *****

    • Ophelia Rump

      OK, I must admit you had me at making beer and grapa!

      I have my doubts about what you are saying but since you say you are doing this yourself, you have my interest. Please provide some more specific info about the energy levels.

    • BroKeeper

      Cheers!

  • Omega Z

    $50 million to build a New Grade school at Sandyhook.

    $12 Million is pocket change.

  • Omega Z

    Yes, but don’t forget,
    Siemens 1 Million Sqft. All in 1 Turbine, Generator, Co-generation, Tri-Generation, CHP, CCHP Facilities are within 2 hours of Cherokee/IH & has an Electrical Generation distribution facility 15 minutes away. A Similar setup as the Italian Energy Distributor Siemens tried to by out a while back. If you can’t buy one start your own. They also provide Turnkey operations.

    I think Babcock & Wilcox and Westinghouse are also in the immediate vicinity. Basically most of the big boys are right there. A One Stop Shop…

    IMHO, They will license it to all of them. There’s just to many possibilities for anyone Entity to deal with. At Best, Industrial Heat would setup just to produce the H-Cat Core Reactors. Even that may be licensed, Industrial Heat may just focus on Reactor R&D. Future IP’s. The Big Bucks without all the fuss.

    This would also calm anyone’s fears of an End product Monopoly keeping Government types off their backs.

    • Quiet Wine Guy

      Don’t forget the Chinese and their $1.5B investment in a new alternate energy technology incubator park.

      I think we are missing something if we don’t include this dynamic tension in the overall assessment.

      Rossi/IH is still in the position of having to negotiate with those having vastly more power ($, manpower, legal resources, political influence, etc.). Look at what NASA tried to do with their bullying of Rossi.

      • Omega Z

        Yes, China hasn’t mastered Jet Engines. Most of what they have come from Russia especially for military aircraft. and even for many of their commercial aircraft. Apparently some things are hard to reverse engineer.

        In my Opinion, China will at least for the beginning, be a Jobber. Building absorption chiller add on components & such for a while. Rossi doesn’t trust them as of yet. But the task ahead will take facilities world wide before all is said and done.

        This isn’t a 100%, But I suspect that the Chinese that Darden dealt with at the business level are U.S. citizens, or at least not Chinese nationals. Many Chinese U.S citizens do business in China for the same reason others do. It’s Cheaper. And the Chinese Government goes the extra mile to encourage that.
        Including Building facilities & 25 year near cost free lease and No Corporate Taxes for 5 years. Of course, after 5 years, it’s a 25% minimum tax & they do everything possible to steel IP or obtain rights to future IP.

        Many people fear China’s Job steeling Labor. To Late.
        Actually, They don’t have much surplus labor left to utilize. And wages are increasing about 10% a year above inflation because of that. There starting to catch up with the rest of us. Enough so that cost savings are becoming negligible for foreign business. Another 10 years & they’ll be looking for cheaper labor markets themselves. Some U.S business is already returning home or finding someplace cheaper.

    • heath

      Very good points. Has there been any Siemens information that has a connection with Rossi and IHCherokee? It is very possible that any of these could be involved, but from info so far GE seems to stand out. Let’s keep digging!

      • Omega Z

        Rossi has talked of dealings with Siemens numerous times.
        Mostly about specifics for matching up e-cats to a turbine.
        One person here at the time claimed to have contacted a Siemens representative. The response was that they weren’t aware of it, but It could involve another Division & they wouldn’t be aware of it. Compartmental. This was several months prior to Rossi developing the H-Cat.

        Rossi said he would need to produce at least 300`C stable in order to be able to make it work.

        We have no official confirmation outside of Rossi, but in my opinion, some of what Rossi has said indicates he did have conversations with them. Likely at a consultation level. Nothing firm that I’m aware of.

        This was also close to the time Rossi had some dealings with National Instruments. Rossi said working with. Well you know how speculation can go here on the blogs. Taken as partnering!
        Again, Someone contacted National Instruments. They reviewed Rossi statement and came back with this.

        There response was that Rossi’s statements were a reasonable representation of the situation. Which in their view was “In on going Consultations with Rossi”. We made the leap(read to much into it) that it was a little more then that. We’re Bad.:-(
        But as said, I think this will be licensed out to many.

        • Quiet Wine Guy

          OZ, a simplistic perspective is that IH is looking to draw as many as feasible into the negotiations, diluting the power of any single company or government agency.

          The upcoming 3rd Party report will go a long way towards that goal, IMO

  • Omega Z

    Oh Doh. Stupid me.

    Well in that case, I don’t put all that much stock in them.
    According to the NSA & Science to I guess, Going 4 people out from center, Nearly all of us have an inside connection to the POTUS.

    Yep, Very likely I know someone that knows someone that knows someone who knows you & where your house is. :-)

    Or Guilt by association, George Bush new someone that was friends with the Enron boys. Of Course Al Gore belonged to the same private club as them. :)

    Bottom Line, All these types hang in the same crowds, But don’t always connect. And Us, We hang with different crowds altogether.

    Just for fun, My girlfriends grandmother probably knows Rossi’s family. She’s from Ferrari, Italy.
    Yes, My girlfriend is Italian. I’ve talked to them about Rossi & the E-cat. You would think they would show interest. Some Heritage pride or something. You would think. Same response you get from your wife. :(

    • bachcole

      I think that my wife can’t see the practical value of it yet. And she lives in “yet”. Once she blurted out, “Will this help my family?” Fortunately she didn’t use the word “now” so I was able to say yes.

      Let’s face it, most of what we are doing here is enjoying the Sunrise of the New Humanity. I just hope that I live long enough to get warmed by it.

  • Omega Z

    e-dog

    The Grid will be around for a long time yet. Gradually phased out.
    It will be replaced by Micro-Grids. Instead of you electricity coming from hundreds of miles away, It will likely be from the Cities edges. Big Business, Huge apartment builds of 100 units or more may employ this technology. And skyscrapers in the big Cities as well, but even that will be a few years away.

    The Reason is, the technology for cost effective home systems is just not there. Their expensive & maintenance intensive. It’s going to take years to make them cost effective. And Note: Micro-Grids will already have reduced costs substantially.

    I’m sure some in power will try to retain the existing Centralized Grid, But They’ll take to much time to retro-fit. Basically each would need to be custom built. They all differ to some degree. New Large scale power plants will still take many years to build. Likely as long as now. Average of 10 years.
    Because of the scale, there more complex, have to be near perfectly in balance or they fly apart. Usually designed for a specific location which results in every one being a little different.(Think Custom Built) And in most cases, the waste heat is waste heat.

    On the other hand, 50Mw plants are less complex. Take a much smaller footprint & because of this small footprint, Could be built more like an assembly line. All the same. Because their smaller, it would be cheaper & easier to make them self contained. That’s complete recirculation of the water for steam & condensing. No Vast lakes, rivers or ocean front property needed. Just enough water source for occasional topping of.

    While your trying to build a 2-500Mw plants or a single Gigawatt plant, You could build hundreds of 50Mw plants.
    You see, It doesn’t matter how many E-cat cores you can manufacture. It’s how many can be installed and building large numbers of smaller plants would demand many more then a large plant. Just because total output capacity could be built much quicker this way

    So to recap,
    Some retro fits of the Central Grids with a learning curve.
    Shortly outpaced & overtaken buy Smaller Micro-Grids, Business, & Large building system(CCHP). Big Is Dead.
    Some, Not many, Private systems. It’s a cost analysis thing..

    Now, Once there available, People will be trying to find a way to make them cost effective for the home, But unless there is a major advance in material science, this could be 1 maybe 2 decades away. Unless you want to pay substantially more for your utility costs.
    .
    I leave this with 1 caveat. IF, Someone develops an economical 35% or higher Direct Thermal Electric convertor. Most of the above wont apply, But I suspect the vast majority of people will still opt for the Micro-Grid. It’ll be much cheaper then now & “Convenient”. But the option is there for those who want to disconnect.

  • Ophelia Rump

    COP 3 is not economically impractical, it is revolutionary.
    A COP 3 heater in every home would be hailed as a modern miracle.

    COP 3 is simply not enough to justify large scale electrical production via steam.

    • LENR G

      Fair enough but Job001 made some great points and the increase in possible COP certainly helped to expand its possible applications and potential impact.

    • Omega Z

      COP 3 is Revolutionary, It Just is.
      But even with COP 6, I can still heat my home much cheaper with Natural Gas. Did the math long ago.
      Of course if your using steam heat or electric, COP 3 Is substantially cheaper.
      That’s why Rossi is investigating/research NG Hot-Cat’s…

  • Ophelia Rump

    It is nice to hope, and hopes can lead to sweet dreams. Sweet dreams if overindulged can become delusional. Delusion can turn to hallucination, if you push too hard.

    I would leave this at the fact level. Which tells us, not much.

  • Mr. Moho

    GE has a manufacturing plan near Raleigh for these engines

    Really? This significant piece of information got me thinking. What if the “magnificent” factory under construction was actually GE’s?

    If it’s the case, then this press release (or similar ones – I wonder if there is more along these lines) might be related with that: http://www.geaviation.com/press/other/other_20130709.html

    Not that any possible match will be much more than fun speculation at this stage, but still… that’s interesting.

  • BroKeeper

    Recent Posts:
    “GE Invests Big in Distributed Energy, Combined Heat and Power”
    “Rossi Working on E-Cat Jet Engine”
    “NASA LENR Aircraft Presentation Published [Updated: Rossi Comments and Hints]” (GE interest?)
    “Tom Darden of Cherokee/Industrial Heat Files Patent for Microgrid System”
    “The Industrial Heat Web of Connections includes GE, Others”
    Hmmmm, maybe there is a picture forming here.

    • LENR G

      I researched NASA/GE connections yesterday. There are plenty of them. It would not be a surprise if they are both involved with Industrial Heat; they are used to working together.

  • Steve H

    GE. LM6000 turbines have been used on gas power plants since 1992.

    Teesside Power Station, UK.
    Originally built, managed and operated by Enron for Teesside Power Limited.
    They were fitted with eight, 150MW, LM6000’s which consumed natural gas – and two 300MW steam turbines (not sure of their manufacture).

    Correct me if I’m wrong – but if the E-Cat is going to be married to an LM6000 (as previous links have indicated), then it will only require the turbine section.
    No compressor or combustion sections required.

    This has not been highlighted so far. I thought it worth mentioning!

    • Steve H

      This has recently been moth-balled and would be a good retro-fit plant for IH. It has all the grid connections in place and an abundance of talented engineers and technicians in the area.
      I believe GDF Suez are the current owners!

    • Job001

      It will still have a compressor for the Brayton cycle or likewise a pump for a steam turbine cycle. One must boost the pressure back up before the heat is added by combustion or LENR. Capital cost is modest for turbine generator per unit of capacity.

  • georgehants

    Old but I don’t remember it, sorry if already shown.
    ———-
    Cold fusion continues 25 years after announcement
    By Ed Yeates
    SALT LAKE CITY — Twenty five years later, despite the skeptics, cold fusion lingers.
    Instead of what critics say was a premature, unsubstantiated, even
    arrogant announcement from the University of Utah in 1989, Stanley Pons
    and Martin Fleischmann themselves would have preferred to let their
    research unfold slowly and cautiously.
    And that’s what some scientists continue doing, tinkering with experiments that are backed by several funding agencies.
    What happened more than two decades ago has long since taken flight from
    the U., but now other researchers have picked up the tattered wings of
    that original experiment, believing what Pons and Fleischmann had is
    still worth pursuing.
    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=29181949&nid=1012

  • Omega Z

    Visited Mats Lewan’s blog & checked some of the comments/reviews of his book.
    Found something interesting that was recently mentioned in a former thread about Roland Pettersson & Ikegami’s work.

    Confirmed purchase
    And a Response from “Lars T.”
    This is Google translated.

    Rossi has something new
    It was interesting to read the extensive compilation of Mats Lewan done. Although I am biased in that I had launched Ikegami’s work together with Roland Pettersson of lithium and participated in the experiment in Ferrara and was co-author on the report of the trials. The work will certainly be continued in many hands because it’s too interesting to be able to convert mass into energy at relatively low temperatures with no detectable radiation outside the reaction chamber. By reading Lewans book to get a deeper understanding of the difficult situations that can arise when an inventor develops a process that can not immediately be explained by accepted theory. An academic drove arise.

    3rd party authors-
    Giuseppe Levi, Evelyn Foschi, Torbjörn Hartman, Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson, Lars Tegnér, Hanno Essén

    I Also noticed the Rossi purchased Mats book. :-)

    • georgehants

      Hey, I bet Mats sent him a free copy and he should of asked Rossi to sign one and send it back to him.
      History.

      • Omega Z

        It showed Rossi as a confirmed purchase.
        Maybe Mats just sent him 1, But yeah, send him 2 & have Rossi sign 1 & send it back.
        May be worth a lot of money in a few years.

  • Omega Z

    Frank did a thread on Cherokee quite a while back. If you checked the links/connections on the site of all the entities they work with, you would have already known this.

    GE, Google, Siemens, Babcock and Wilcox, And dozens more.
    Bush, Clinton, Dozens of other politico’s, Bill Gates, Or Basically a Who’s Who.

    It doesn’t give a clue who they are working with, but Hundreds of possibilities. Which is why I never posted anything about it at the time.

    It is likely after the 3rd party test report that they will be working with Many of them. There are Dozens of products that need designed or redesigned with the H-cat in mind. To much & to many for anyone Corporation. 10’s of billions to be invested & years of Research & Development ahead.

  • georgehants

    It is interesting to me that if you guys can show any single case of industry or commerce spending time and money on Cold Fusion, then once again this is a powerful reflection on establishment science.
    While they waste everybody’s time and money pursuing rubbish such as lassoing asteroids etc. etc. and sitting in their ivory towers spending billions trying to make out that they have solved a major problem totally involving chaos theory, (Global Warming), the real World moves on.
    I sincerely hope that everybody on page that is fed-up with my repetitively pointing this out, sensibly realises that It is not me that should be blamed for that continuation but science.
    When science even begins to act like competent scientists should and grasps the Research of Cold Fusion and many other equally important subjects denied by these worse than amateur people, then I hopefully will shut-up.
    Wonderful day.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Stuff like lassoing asteroids is not stupid. The probability of an asteroid impact is small, but if it comes, technology to prevent it is the most important of all survival skills.

      • georgehants

        Pekka, sorry, I am referring to the reports of lassoing asteroids to bring metals etc to the Earth.
        Would be interested in the maximum mass that we could, in the foreseeable future redirect by lassoing and pulling with anther craft that we posses.
        Perhaps you could enlighten me.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Asteroids are rich in platinum group metals (or better: Earth’s crust is diluted in such metals because they have sunken to the core). Platinum group metals are costly enough to make mining them from asteroids potentially profitable. It’s a concrete and relatively near-term possibility.

          Another reason for mining asteroids (for water, iron, nickel, silicon, aluminium…) is to enable building stuff in space using them as raw material, instead of launching all the mass from earth which is costly. In a short run it could markedly reduce costs of space exploration. In the medium to long run, availability of such materials could enable people leaving Earth and living in space in a scale which is large enough to make such colonies self-sufficient and thus immune to earthly catastrophes.

          • georgehants

            Pekka, we will just have to disagree, I feel that all the while just one person is suffering on this Earth through lack of basic needs then no money should be wasted on such ventures.
            Secondly these things you are suggesting should certainly be put on complete hold and all their money and manpower transferred to the Research and utility of Cold Fusion for the benefit of all – Now.

            But I am only a dreamer where I hope that the World one day will find the removal of suffering more important than other things.

            • David Taylor-Fuller

              While I can understand where your coming from georgehants, I must disagree on the mining asteroids part. First off if you absolutely had to move money around to benefit Cold Fusion then it really needs to come out of the ITER budget. As for the need to mine asteroids. I believe it is going be a requirement if we want to end human suffering. There are alot of ideas coming out of labs that are considered economically infeasible due to their dependence on those same platinum group metals. Driving the cost of those things down would be huge. Also, since I consider war and violence to be an intricate part of the human condition we NEED to free ourselves from being dependent on a single biosphere. That can only be done by taking advantage of space resources. This allows more funds to be redirected to other endeavors such as better thermo electrics. While still being able to carry out a robust space development program.

              • georgehants

                David, thank you, the problem of food, water and basic drugs for those in need does not need sophisticated thinking or resources, just the will to solve the problem.
                War etc. I could not agree more is a problem, more understood perhaps when we realise that a certain percentage of people actually enjoy war etc.
                just like certain people are happy to risk their lives in crazy pursuits such as extreme sports etc.
                When these people are recognised and removed from any positions of authority it may help the situation.
                As regards developing space for more people, best to just ask people if they would wish to reduce the birthrate for the good of all, many may just respond, but that would be to easy.
                Remember capitalism will collapse if their is not a constant increase in demand and people work out a fair way to distribute the ample resources we have now and only increasing with enhanced technology e.g. Cold Fusion.

            • Omega Z

              george

              We can agree to disagree if you choose,
              But, You never know where that next miraculous wonder will appear from. Space is all about Science, Research & Discovery. We have no Idea what they may discover in the near future that could be of great benefit to all.

              Personally, I think the space research takes priority over the E-cat Because, It wont matter if you can provide cheap plentiful Energy food, & water for everyone, Should a 5 mile diameter Planet killer appear out of nowhere just 3 days away.

              And Note: There are Many Koonin’s, And Park’s in the world who think Rossi & his kind would do better spending their time & money providing food & water for the poor. Rather then trying to invent the impossible.

              All Research is Good as long as done honestly & they follow the Facts.
              At least that’s what some old guy posting here at ECW keeps telling me. :-)

              I’m a believer george. So much so that if I was to vocally say what I’m about to type, I would probably choke on my own words.
              As it is, It’s making my fingers cramp. Stop It.

              Here it Is: Tho I think the Iter & Hot Fusion has been a Big Sink Hole of funds, Once LENR is in the market, I think that line of research should continue. Tho at a Very Much Smaller piece of the funding pie.

              Why? You never know. While trying to do the Impossible, They May stumble over the technology to create a real life Star Trek Replicator. Direct Energy to Mater. What better device to hookup to an E-cat. What ever you want. You got it.

              • georgehants

                My first reply is to pekka but this one is named from Omega Z
                so I will wait awhile for it to hopefully show the correct name as it is a very important post.

              • georgehants

                Omega Z, I could not agree more than with your first sentence – for example
                http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/bar-attack-turned-college-dropout-jason-padgett-into-a-maths-genius/story-fneuz9ev-1226890783542
                ——
                I disagree with your second sentence on statistical and logical grounds.
                ——
                All Research is good even that that seems temporarily to show a negative.
                ——
                I can now if you wish put up links to a hundred important scientific subjects that are debunked and ignored by science, just like the one I have given you above.
                You decide, when billions suffer from mental problems on the Earth if such a link giving massive insight into the mind is important and should be Researched with all full competent resources.
                Best

    • Andreas Moraitis
      • georgehants

        Andreas, Ha, coincidence, I put that link up on the always open thread earlier this morning, but thank you.

  • Bernie777

    I have been buying GE stock for two years…it is simply inconceivable that GE is not into LENR big time…….after all this huge, savvy, international company is named General Electric!

  • artefact

    From JONP:

    “Frank Acland
    April 21st, 2014 at 1:05 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    You may find this story interesting. http://www.gereports.com/post/82402621133/this-jet-engine-cannot-fly-but-it-can-help-save-lives
    It discusses ‘aeroderivative’ jet engines produced by GE which has been used in places like the Texas Medical Center to provide electricity, heat and cooling to the Texas Medical Center in Houston.
    Is this the kind of application you are conducting R&D on at the moment?
    Many thanks,
    Frank Acland
    ###########

    Andrea Rossi
    April 21st, 2014 at 6:58 PM
    Frank Acland:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

  • Alain Samoun

    Is that a good sign that a huge company like GE gets involved with Rossi’s partners?

    • GreenWin

      Sure Alain. Because GE can afford to pay high priced staff and consultants to warn them of new technology that could make them the next Kodak. If I ran a big energy company and was aware of the current and new LENR verifications – I’d buy everything I could with an LENR patent portfolio. To NOT do so, will end the executive team when the Board realizes they hesitated or demurred. Welcome to IGZ-2014 – Shark Swim. :)

      • Ophelia Rump

        That sounds reasonable.

  • heath

    IMO it seems that there is no “what now” question of what happens after the six month test. These connections relate to IH’s overall global strategy in connection with GE’s turbine technology and investment, I would say that (after the patent application is submitted with the data from the test) we’ll see things move very quickly. As others have said, it’s finally starting to become more and more clear–and again, well done Mr. Moho!

  • bachcole

    I hate to seem ungrateful and hypercritical, but it is a very incomplete and lame diagram. The page starts out with almost everything in Italian, and although my favorite inventor of all time is Italian, I don’t speak hardly a word of Italian. Then there is a really well formed diagram that tells me exactly zip because it is all a bunch of numbers. Then the important diagram, well, it is just pathetic. Nary a word about Andrea Rossi. It just doesn’t tell me a whole lot. I don’t know what the lines mean; I don’t know what the arrow heads mean. Thomas Darden is JT Vaughn’s boss yet they are not even connected with an arrow. I don’t get it. Please someone less lazy and more knowledgeable than me please fix that diagram up so that we can actually learn something from it.

    • Mr. Moho

      It looks like it’s a crop from a larger diagram. I remember that a different, expanded but less updated version version featuring Andrea Rossi as well got posted there earlier this year, but got deleted at some point for some reason.

      Even though what the colors mean isn’t immediately clear, I feel the diagram is obviously meant to show the relationship between people and entities involved, with the arrows’ direction hinting the hierarchical status of the relationships, rather than that between people, or at least directly (although I see that Darden and his daughter have been connected with a red line there, so maybe it’s not the case).

      Either way, the latest postings there helped me big time putting recent finds by others into context. I don’t think I could have figured out alone that GE might actually be involved in this story. After connecting the dots, too many coincidences seem to be piling up, IMHO.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Linking GE to a human is not very informative. I dare say playing six degrees of separation most of the population of the planet would connect .

        • Quiet Wine Guy

          Ophelia,

          your comment seems a overly harsh in light of what has been found that suggests a relationship between IH and appropriate divisions in GE. But, it is your call on how you present your opinions and argue your perspective.

          • Ophelia Rump

            My comment was only in regard to the chart and the association of Darden through his daughter’s non-specified relationship with someone at GE regarding something. I did not consider it harsh, just dismissive.

            • Veblin

              We do have Rossi saying that R&D with (Jet Engines) Gas Turbines is happening. GE is one of a few major players in that industry. That would make an IH-POGENS-GE connection worth watching for.

        • GreenWin

          I have entered and evangelize this project on faith AND pragmatism. Faith tells me that should GE get its fatted hands into even a margin of what is being orchestrated – they should genuflect gratitude. IMO, it would be very easy to close GE’s portal.

          On the other hand, one of their speculative divisions (Digital Energy) hoping to “modernize” the grid has an investment in an IH patent partner – designing microgrids. That IS where distributed energy is going. GE is well aware of LENR as their aerospace division is contracted to NASA on the Subsonic Ultra Green project.

          However, as Ophelia and others have noted, this is a transitional movement. Older technologies will have enough warning and heads up to be proactive or get phased out. Forward thinkers like NRG Energy and possibly GE’s Distributed Power division, will assign product planners to modular CHP generation and microgrid products. One of the players will become analogous to IBM in PC lore. Others will clone those systems and rapidly improve them just as in PC lore.

          In the end, energy will follow the model set by refrigeration in the early 1900s… IMO. :)

      • Veblin
    • Omega Z

      I think there claim is of an automated switching system.
      The Diagram is mostly for comprehension in how it would be integrated or put to use.

  • Mr. Moho

    The user who made that social network graph could add this piece of information too:

    http://cherokeechallenge.com/team/

    Jim Szyperski,
    CEO of Power Generation Services, Inc. is in the Cherokee Challenge advisory commitee.

    • clovis ray

      very impressive,group of folks.

  • Mr. Moho

    For what it’s worth, JT Vaughn (Industrial Heat, Cherokee-McDonough Challenge organizer) is following GE on Twitter (they do have 200k followers to be fair, me included), although I wouldn’t rely on this very weak link to assess whether GE actually has a role in Industrial Heat / Tom Darden’s E-Cat industrialization and commercialization strategy or not. Just take this as an interesting tidbit.

    https://twitter.com/generalelectric

    I got the link to the recent news story about a large jet engine (yes, they did use Rossi’s wording) being used as a stationary generator (which I posted in a comment in the previous blogpost) there, by the way:

    http://www.gereports.com/post/82402621133/this-jet-engine-cannot-fly-but-it-can-help-save-lives

  • kasom

    the picture gets clearer every week, much is beeing prepared behind the courtains.

    If Gov’s tell You, that they dont’t know about…………it simpla is a lie

  • GreenWin

    In fairness to other dedicated contributors, Veblin and FortyNiner, provided links and astute commentary yesterday on the ECW’s Always Open Thread. And thanks to Mr. Moho and Frank for the latest story & links. With GE’s $1.4B investment in a new Distributed Power unit, they signal growing awareness where energy generation is moving.

    “In a white paper released during the [GE] event, “ The
    Rise of Distributed Power,
    ” GE highlights that distributed power has
    become increasingly popular in countries that are seeking more reliable,
    efficient energy options near the point of use—on or off the grid.
    According to the report, distributed power will grow 40 percent faster
    than global electricity demand between now and 2020″
    http://www.ge-distributedpower.com/

    • Quiet Wine Guy

      GW,

      IMO, it is humorous for GE to say that distributed power will grow 40% faster that total global electricity demand. The 40% figure seems to be a complete low ball figure if you bring LENR into the equation.

      Who in their right mind will ignore a source of electricity where the variable operational cost is presumably far lower than any competing source. Knowing GE, they will likely price the capital cost of purchase, plus R&M fees, to throttle back demand and increase/maximize profits. It is only through this pricing policy that I can imagine it will only grow by 40% over global growth rates.

      • Mr. Moho

        Restructuring and the power grid for distributed generation (which was never intended to have) will be expensive and come with drawbacks as well (complexity, availability factor and power quality, for example), at least in the beginning, even though an almost ideal power source such as LENR could greatly mitigate these issues. It’s not going to happen overnight.

        I guess present-day press releases are probably using plausible figures from expected (perhaps optimistic) growth rates in renewable energy systems such as wind and photovoltaic systems, though.

        • clovis ray

          Thank you, Mr. moho.

      • Ophelia Rump

        I think I go with the GE estimate over yours. But I appreciate the enthusiasm.

        • Quiet Wine Guy

          I agree. That is why I included the last paragraph . . . it points to a profound change in the global energy production market. And, assuming the best for LENR, the incremental 40% means energy suppliers are ‘ripping out’ existing means of production and replacing it with mostly/all LENR sources.

          Also, of course, in my wildly enthusiastic scenario, most of that 100% of future incremental growth in global electricity supply will be of the LENR variety.

          • Ophelia Rump

            There will be no ripping, there will be transitioning.
            Investments will see their capitalization gradually diminished until they are no longer sound investments and then transitioned for renewed profitability.

            You do not throw out sound investments, you diversify and transition.

            As long as the dollar cost average of infrastructure / return remains within reasonable profitability the overall investments are sound.

            It will take decades to fully transition. Something new added to the portfolio, something old removed as it declines.

            • Quiet Wine Guy

              Ophelia,

              I hear you and recognize the basis for your financially driven rationale. I have also argued that the transition time frame is measured in decades.

              As a suggestion, take a look at the number of coal fired power plants which will have to be mothballed/abandoned due to the cost of compliance with EPA regulations over the next 4-5 years. I suspect that the owners/managers would be willing to use the emotional word ‘ripped’ when describing the replacement/substitution of the necessary equipment.