LENR — ‘A Dragon With Many Tails’

I thought I would feature this post from ECW reader Neanderthal today as it seems to give a glimpse into the kind of thinking and discussion about LENR that may be going on behind the scenes in scientific (and other) institutions.

Today Neanderthal wrote this comment in another thread:

I work for one of the most prestigious Scientific Institutes in the UK.

We have been keeping a very close eye on this particular development. We know that the Lenr phenomena is real — we have studied literature in their abundance and have concluded this new science is a dragon with many tails. Let’s say that the general attitudes and direction among our colleagues have more weight than mere whispers in the refreshment rooms.

Mats Lewan’s book An Impossible Invention mentions that there are people in science and industry watching developments in LENR who are not wanting to come forward yet to publicize their interest, mainly because of fear of being ridiculed if the whole field turns out to be bogus, but also not wanting to be left behind if it takes off. We know very little about discussions going on in private in science and industry, but Neanderthal’s comment indicates that serious interest is indeed being given to LENR.

  • jonnyb

    In my opinion Rossi and Santilli are neck and neck. I could have cried when I saw BLP’s wielder crud. I expected so much. In my opinion it is demo’s like that that give LENR a bad name, when there is so much evidence that it is real. I have every confidence in Rossi and Santilli. Maybe there are others out there about to come up on the inside Jet?

    • bachcole

      Mills had a big build up. A great theory. And a demo not worthy of a middle school. And he had the gall to call us a cult.

  • jonnyb

    I read a while ago that the COP was around 6, it was on the site somewhere.

  • jonnyb

    Yeh he certainly does, better than anyone. The link is I hope: http://www.world-lecture-series.org/dragon-iii click on the film. It is called Dragon 111 so appropriate for this post, one of the tails? Very disappointed with Mills as well, it was the site that first re-ignited my interest.

  • GreenWin

    Neander consider the sub-conscious idea that your “Dragon” might refer to the Space X Dragon and Elon Musk’s high tech empire. Wouldn’t that make for a great ride! http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140418212927.htm

    • Neanderthal

      :-) That made me smile. :-) On a serious note. In my opinion

      I think what is being overlooked and underestimated is the ability of LENR i.e. (hot_cat) to do useful work and maximize profits for less cost. Then we will see the big companies starting to ask questions. “How is this particular company doing this?”

      LENR will cause a boom in profits in whoever invests in it.
      If it makes you rich they will accept it. It seems a certainty.
      Money and Greed will take this into the mainstream more quickly than we can anticipate.
      I believe that there needs to be some regulating body that’s if there isn’t one already. In the wrong hands it could be dangerous e.g. a fringe group using it for more heinous purposes

      • jonnyb

        Yeh greed and self interest, what a species we are. I suppose that is why we are still here and the Neanderthals are not.

        • bachcole

          Speak for yourself.

          (:->)

          • jonnyb

            Only 3 to 4% of you though.

            • bachcole

              But that is the part that makes me so freaking good looking. (:->)

              • jonnyb

                My 3% is my butt, oh well.

                • jonnyb

                  Have you seen Thunder Fusion has updated it’s home page a bit, looks like they may be on the move as well.

  • Obvious

    I didn’t mean to imply anything about you or your handle, Roger. We discussed that earlier and I’m fine with it. It was an example of Disqus recognizing the IP address of the handle owner and dealing with it strangely. I suspect that the flipping ID thingy is a an IP conflict related issue.

  • artefact

    You mentioned several institutes we dont’t know of are investigating LENR. At what time do you think did that start? (After Rossis Jan. 2011 demo?)

    • Neanderthal

      In the time of Friedrich Paneth & Kurt Peters if I am correct. I would need to look into our archives to give you a definitive answer.
      .However if I am not mistaken they retracted their results due to background helium that skewed their measurements. I am unaware if they took into account the faradaic efficiencies. if it was less than 100% then cold fusion may have been a possibility. I am unable to give you anymore information at this time .

      • Neanderthal

        Sorry I misread your text yes after 2011. I get the impression that some posters know more than I first thought. Who are you Greenwin? and Ophelia are you Nuclear Scientist also. ?

        • GreenWin

          Neander, if you don’t know by now… we would have to eliminate you. :)

  • Andreas Moraitis

    That sounds pretty sad. If you have something real, you should not give up. There are some persons or companies in Germany which are allegedly pursuing LENR projects, for instance:

    http://www.purratio.ag/html/willkommen.html
    http://coldfusion3.com/blog/german-company-doing-cold-fusion-research-in-berlin

    Maybe there is a way to overcome the bureaucratic obstacles – it might be just a question of wording. If you would meet the right people, a solution could perhaps be found. And if it is not possible in Germany – there are other options, as we all know.

  • GreenWin

    The crystal structure of Ni is cubic. The crystal structure of H is hex. BTW, Dr. Yeong Kim, Purdue theoretical physicist, works with many-bodied BECs. He is also a consultant to Cyclone Power Technologies.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      We should not forget Santilli’s deuterium-carbon(graphite) system. The crystal symmetry of graphite is very different from that of nickel or palladium. Santilli’s effect might the touchstone for any theory of LENR, in many respects.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        “might be”, sorry.

  • blanco69

    Neanderthal, you seem to have stuck around after your initial cryptic posts. Would you be able to share any more of what you claim to know about LENR? Like what circumstances cause you to know for sure that the phenomenon is real. Or maybe, whose theory do you think is most accurate; Storms, Godes, Larsen etc. I don’t mean to pry but since this thread has been born out of one of your posts I thought it would be legitimate to ask you directly.

    • AB

      Good question. Surely LENR wasn’t always taken seriously, so what caused the shift? Was it the Levi report?

  • GreenWin

    Does the “true reality” conform to laws of QM?

    • Quiet Wine Guy

      I thought your question quite straight forward. It seems you won’t get an answer from Observer or his friend AB.

    • AB

      Yes, quantum mechanics are “magical” and real. It doesn’t mean other “magical” things are automatically real as well.

      • Quiet Wine Guy

        AB, I believe your answer is fundamentally incorrect as it does not really answer GW’s question.

        Man has created a theory, which he injudiciously calls “Laws of QM”. This theory, with its equations is fundamentally a metaphor for ‘True Reality’. ‘True Reality’ does not conform to man’s QM theory . . . Man’s QM metaphor conforms to ‘True Reality’ only because of the discipline of Bacon’s creation, the discipline of the scientific method.

        A good example of this point is Newton’s theory of Gravity with its supporting equations. The truth of it only being a metaphor was made clear by the planet Mercury’s non-conforming orbit; its orbit does not conform to Newton’s Law of Gravity. It was only until Einstein’s better metaphor for the theory of Gravity that the reason for the non-conformity was made clear: Newton’s “Law” breaks down when you get to close to such a massive object like the sun.

        • GreenWin

          Great answer QWG. Looks like “Observer” is misnamed.

          • Quiet Wine Guy

            The same can be said of AB, IMO.

            I guess as we get closer to the unveiling, we will be seeing more of their likes here at Frank’s place, where everyone knows your name.

  • AB

    It’s a common human illusion though. One need only look at psychology, religion, new age philosophy or the way some people view the placebo effect to see examples of people believing they can shape reality with their mere thoughts.

    • Quiet Wine Guy

      Does the simple thought process of mindfully meditating upon one’s symbol of compassion change the physical structure of the brain?

      • AB

        So does juggling, but one doesn’t see people practising juggling to cure their cancer, find the perfect partner or whatever dreams they want to become reality.

        • Quiet Wine Guy

          You are contradicting yourself. You said that Man does not have the capacity to shape reality with one’s mere thoughts. Now you agree they can.

          Your and Observer’s point doesn’t hold water.

          • AB

            > You are contradicting yourself.

            Am I? I do not equate changes in brain structure to “shaping reality”.

            • Quiet Wine Guy

              Then, we disagree. I consider the physical world an aspect of reality.

          • bachcole

            The problem is that you and 99.99% of the human race think that they are living in REALITY. This is the illusion. The closest we come to reality is the fact of our experiencing it.

            • Quiet Wine Guy

              Roger, I’m certain I’m living in the ‘Here and Now’ of reality. It is my perceptions which are one step removed as they are the results of the conditioning my senses and brain impose upon the stimuli. It is like Plato’s metaphor of the Cave.

  • Neanderthal

    I have heard that philosophy and science can be one anothers illegitimate offspring .