Rossi: E-Cat ‘Reliability has been Reached’ [Update: E-Cat Has ‘Never Stopped’]

I followed up with Andrea Rossi on the comment yesterday about the E-Cat test being made in a neutral place (not Italy or the USA), and that they had shipped the E-Cat to the testing venue. I asked whether one or more E-Cats had been sent, and he responded that they had sent three reactors “as spare parts, but (this I can say) we did not have breaks or malfunctions, so far, so the spare parts are intact.”

I responded again saying I was glad that the first reactor has worked as intended and that he must be pleased about that. His response was, “Yes, the reliability has been reached.”

All this makes me wonder how the test results could be anything but positive, if the reactor has been working reliably — ie. stably and consistently over many months, as it was designed to operate. Of course we don’t know about the actual performance of the E-Cat under test, but if hadn’t worked as planned they would have presumeably moved to reactor #2 or #3.

Taking Rossi at his word (I don’t see any reason not to) this seems to bode well for the report — of course, subject to confirmation.

UPDATE: In a more recent comment Rossi says, “The Hot Cat under examination from the third indipendent party has never been stopped and it run continuously with no interruptions of sort.”

  • LENR G

    This exchange just came in:

    orsobubu

    April 13th, 2014 at 5:10 AM

    Andrea,

    I’m delighted with the idea that testers could limit or push the experimental set at their free choice without external conditions. When you say that the e-cat tested by the independent third party for the last 6 months is still “state of the art”, does it mean:

    1- the core of the tested hot cat completely satisfies you and currently no other work is necessary to improve its performance and stabilty, so the research is directed on equipment around the beast

    2- the core tested is the best stable version you can provide but you are currently working both on the equipment around the cat and on new ideas about the beast itself

    Andrea Rossi

    April 13th, 2014 at 8:43 AM

    orsobubu:
    1- yes, but evolution is permanent ( an adjective you should like)
    2- yes
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • LENR G

      It truly does sound like we are getting very close to seeing these things on the market. This long run “reliability” test was probably the last major step before fielding them.

  • LENR G

    After stacking conservative assumptions one on top of another the final reported COP could turn out to be quite low. But that’s OK if the _actual_ COP is serviceable (for example: reported COP=2, actual COP=6). If the COP is still above 1 after every conservative assumption they can think of and the 7 uber-reviewers sign off on it then Industrial Heat can declare victory.

    Also, I’m hoping for a good read on the specific energy of the nickel powder fuel. One of the first things I’ll be looking for is accurate measurements of the mass of the powder both before and after the test. Previous attempts at this have been botched by orders of magnitude and some ridiculously conservative assumptions (like throwing in the mass of the end caps into the fuel mass). If we know the mass of the powder precisely then we can set a bottom limit for the specific energy (which I predict will rival nuclear fission). THAT number should get the attention of scientists even more than the reported COP. It will prove that it’s not chemical and is most likely nuclear, which should embolden a number of universities, governments and companies to look into it.

  • LukeDC

    account suspended. 100% correct

  • Ophelia Rump

    Obviously it took another two years to find investors, and they apparently thought it needed another six months or so of refinement.

    Skepticism is healthy, but negativism is not skepticism.
    There is reason, and then there is emotion.
    Critics seem to be left with no better argument than emotional tantrums.

    • GreenWin

      Ah, those glory days of pathoskepticism!

  • ecatworld

    I asked Rossi if the testers were at liberty to adjust the performance parameters during the test, and he said yes. This could mean that there will be different COP measurements depending on how the experiments were adjusted.

    • Bernie777

      Rossi, IH must have one of their engineers on site?

      • LENR G

        I don’t think that follows, necessarily. The testing team could be trained how to make adjustments. It doesn’t seem, from what we’ve been told, that it’d be any more difficult than adjusting some knobs on the mouse/control box.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi indicated that 1 of IH/Rossi technicians was/is present should technical problems arise. But has Zero participation in the test.
          And I’m Thinking, Yes, And keeping an eye on the secret sauce.

          • LENR G

            One thing I hope the 3rd party investigators did was keep a log of who had access to the facility where the test was taking place.

            I doubt it. But it’d be nice to have, to correlate any anomalies with those present.

            I guess we’ll have 24 hour video… I suppose that serves the same purpose if the views are comprehensive enough.

            I missed the message where he said he had a rep at the new round of tests. Do you have a link?

            • ecatworld

              I don’t think Rossi said in so many words that he had a representative on site 24/7 — he said they had made someone available for technical support, but their services had never yet been needed. It doesn’t mean they didn’t have a guard, though.

              • Omega Z

                I went back all the way to the previous 3rd party test.
                I can no longer find any mention of anyone being “present”.
                Only 2 mentions of assistance being available. Nothing indicating anyone being present. I don’t recall the exact text of the post I read except it was very specific as to only “1 person and present being in it”.
                I guess “present” could be interrupted as available in Rossi speak, but regardless these words are no longer there.

            • Omega Z

              Your concerns about access answered
              Andrea Rossi
              April 1st, 2014 at 10:58 PM

              Mark:
              They are in the neutral laboratory where the test is done in turns or all together, depending on the work they have to do, they have faculty of access to the laboratory 24 hours per day, at any time and they have access 24 hours per day to the data registration of temperatures and energy, which is permanent 24 hours per day, every day with no interruption of sort. They told me two days ago that they have elaborated more than one million of data already. I have no data at all, being the registration made by their instrumentation and being restricted to them the consultation of the same. In the lab there are four videocameras that make the registration of any leaf that can fly in any part of the laboratory.
              Warm Regards,
              A.R.

              • LENR G

                If the videos are as comprehensive as he says then that is a very good thing.

                I hope they took care to make the video data tamper proof. Cause you know that truck is coming down pathoskep highway.

              • Omega Z

                In another post, he implied all the data would be available. Rossi speak is a little vague. Don’t know if he really meant “ALL” literally.
                Don’t think I would care to watch 6 months of 24/7 video let alone 4 of them. :)

            • Ophelia Rump

              Seriously, You want a security audit for cheating?

              If that is your perspective you should not bother waiting for the results before you pass judgement. Why waste time?

              • Omega Z

                I think you misread LENR G’s concern.
                I think his view is of possible sabotage or IP theft. Not cheaters.

                • LENR G

                  It’s more that I want the test results to be airtight and not subject to ridiculous accusations of fraud. It’s important not to be naive in this respect. We are in the minority. The majority apparently believe that Rossi is a master trickster. I want that possibility eliminated in this test report.

              • LENR G

                Not so much my judgment, but the judgement of others. I want this test to be resistant to accusations of fraud. I want this technology to proceed.

                • Mr. Moho

                  That would not be in Rossi/IH’s best interest since they have no competition yet. Actually, he might have wanted to avoid fraud accusations this time as they’re harmful to any legit company, but since he’s recently hinted that the testing team was the same (perhaps, bar Levi, per Cobraf rumors) and that he attended the tests 30% of the time (would that mean 8 hours a day? That would be hilarious, in a way) he is clearly still trying to instill doubt and uncertainty about his work. At this stage this cannot be anything but deliberate.

                • LENR G

                  It still remains to be seen exactly who is the target audience for this test report. By not excluding Rossi completely and using (supposedly) professors from the previous test it seems that their target audience may be more along the lines of internal partners/investors who needed a long term test before green-lighting full production… not the general public or even the scientific community.

            • Omega Z

              LENR G
              Not Anymore. I went all the way back to the previous 3d party test.
              I don’t remember the exact words but it specified 1 technician & used the word present. It was vague & I could have read to much into it due to the word “present.” Anyway, Whether the post was revised/edited/replaced. IDK.

              Anyway, All I can find now is 2 references to assistance being available. Portions of 2 Rossi Posts on JONP.
              Apr 1/14– “our electronic engineer can only give assistance in case of malfunctions”
              Feb 14/14– “All I give is technical assistance if requested.”

              For most of us here at ECW, Having 1 person at least close by would seem pragmatic given the subject mater.
              However, I could see an antagonist finding this as Fodder to be skeptical or a Point of attack..

              Maybe In the Future, I should keep a copy of any posts I might refer to or a screen shot. Probably Not. I think were close to the end and this will cease to be an issue.

  • Omega Z

    Stated by Steve Jobs, Six years of secret development before the 1st I-phone was sold. A pre exiting technology.
    Research takes time.

    • Scott Bergquist

      Certainly, plenty of companies do research secretly, then they announce the product, demo it, let people take it and vet it. Rossi announced way back in 2010. He took customer names for buying the small versions. Then he announced the sale of a container full of them.
      Once you do a demo and a sale, there should not be a need for secrecy. And, I’m not saying that the physics is untrue, or not demonstrable. What many have said is, if you have something, but cannot do the research correctly, or fund it, just pass it to someone who can. Don’t be greedy. You could make $500k a year, just in speaking engagements, as “The Man Who Saved the Planet”.

  • stefan

    >> UPDATE …
    Hmm now all looks consistent again, there was some rumors of low COP, but after these
    many months of cause a current COP of 2 would not be surprising. Could it not be so that the rumor was based on this current value?

    • LENR G

      We don’t know what the COP was yet. Period.

      In one sense any provable and scientifically accepted COP of over 1.0 will be revolutionary and lead to great advances.

      With respect to our expectations, with the higher temps achieved by the Hot Cats, any COP below around 4 would be a disappointment because then the economics of conversion to electricity becomes iffy.

      Keep in mind also that whatever COP is reported may be artificially low due to conservative assumptions in the report (such has been the case in every report so far) and possibly Rossi providing a reactor designed for maximum safety and reliability rather than for max performance.

      • Omega Z

        Yes,
        Conservative assumptions & also if the temperatures during the test were in the lower ranges as in the last test.
        Rossi has stated that Higher temps produce higher COP Values…

        • LENR G

          I guess another consideration regarding the reported COP is how it impacts the fraud/conspiracy theories and the wall of disbelief. A low COP is less bulletproof. With a COP of 2 or 3 the hyperskeps start seeing smuggled energy, device errors and misinterpretations under every rock. A COP of 5 or 6 and all those wild theories become laughable. A COP of 10 leaves everyone in stunned silence, including the hyperskeps.

      • stefan

        I think that you are missing my point, my point is that they have run the device for greater than three months time, it would not be surprising if the charge becomes less potent at the end of the test, In the beginning it could as well have been a COP of 10.

        • LENR G

          I see. Entirely possible. It will indeed be interesting to see if the device performance is steady (wrt input) or not.

          That it lasted however many months is a big triumph in itself.

        • Ophelia Rump

          That is a fair assumption, if you deplete the fuel it seems likely that it reaches a point of diminishing returns before it is completely spent.

          Even a gas engine has only fumes to draw on at the end of the tank.

  • georgehants

    Paul
    April 11th, 2014 at 4:42 PM
    Andrea,
    Is the e-cat tested by the independent third party for the last months still “state of the art”?
    Or has it become obsolete due to further development?
    Paul
    ——–
    Andrea Rossi
    April 11th, 2014 at 8:48 PM
    Paul:
    It is state of the art, so far; as for the future…”panta rei”.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Fortyniner

      Rossi seems to be saying that there has been no significant progress on developing the e-cat at IH R&D during the 6 or 7 months since the units were submitted to the test team.

      The implication of this must be that they had already finalised this design more than half a year ago, in which case either (1) it’s viable as a power source and the six months have been spent building and testing a pilot plant and/or designing products, or (2) although it produces heat it’s not viable as a power source and they are still looking for better ways to exploit the phenomenon (which of course would be pretty disappointing).

  • friendlyprogrammer

    This is the type of thing I think is funny with Rossi. If we listen to only what he says ; we might have expected the ecat was reliable back in 2011. Then in later 2012 he lets us know the reactions are now stable, and we learn Defkalion backed out of a $15 million deal because it could not run for 48 hours. A lot must be read into what he does not say.

    • georgehants

      friendly, how would you compare Mr. Rossi’s possible inconsistency’s that harm nobody with say, the proven deceptions of science in for example the drugs industry, that possibly kill or harm millions.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        First of all…
        Drug companies make drugs that save lives. Your nonsense about them killing or harming millions is not very bright.

        Maybe you would prefer to live in an era before drug companies? Back in 1700 (only 315 years ago) there were no drug companies and the average lifespan was 36 years.
        http://homepage.ntlworld.com/davidjstokes/1700.htm

        I swear your comments rate among the funniest here because they sound like they come from the mouth of a child. Did you not also say “half of scientists seem to have the IQ of cold water” recently?

        I am sorry, but I think in future I will try to ignore your comments more frequently as I think you have insulted most everyone here repetitively.

        I never said Rossi is inconsistent. I said there is content to be read in what he does not say; based on history.

        • georgehants

          friendly,Well I just wanted to check, you clearly do not have a clue what your are talking about.
          You have taken all day to answer and when it comes it is as expected.
          Abuse and distortion, I would suggest you grow up and care a little for those people dying and not display so much of your over active and usually aggressive ego.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            or even in 1900 (pre drug companies), lifespan was 49 years of age on average.
            http://homepage.ntlworld.com/davidjstokes/1900.htm

            My comments are based on facts unlike yours based on delusions. Sorry it took all day to answer. Some of us work.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        Okay……

    • LENR G

      He’s been in a very fluid situation, simultaneously pushing the technology while trying to protect it and shepherd it to market… with people trying to take advantage of him at every gate.

      You brought up Defkalion… think about it… they understood Rossi’s invention to work but wouldn’t pay him the agreed upon amount due to a technicality… forcing a contract nullification… and then they magically come up with their own reactors a short time later. Was Rossi perhaps overstating the reliability at that time the real issue?

      Rossi’s pronouncements are a blend of excited inventor, proud engineer, shrewd businessman, and paranoid eccentric. (But you’re not paranoid if they’re really out to get you). Overstatements, misdirection, miscommunication, language oddities… all there. But he has been truthful about the big things.

      • Omega Z

        All I’ve read indicates Defkalion just didn’t have the money promised. Further more, they weren’t straight up with Rossi on this point. Rossi felt lied to. All trust was gone.

    • Ophelia Rump

      You really need to start using citations and references for your “Facts”.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        Sorry. I think this is common knowledge to most of us here following since 2011. It would be easier if you question what “FACTS” you have problems with.

        Google works with most facts.

        I will go back in time for you in this instance and show you this.

        http://e-catsite.com/2011/11/21/defkalion-nearly-ready-nasa-files-patent-piantelli-silent/

        Once again. Most people here likely know this by rote as it was pretty big at the time.

        Even though the longest public demonstration only lasted 18 hours.
        http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=640

        Had he been able to run it for months back then he would still be partnered with Defkalion and the demonstrations would have been longer. We were not told there were stabilization problems in 2011 until the Defkalion departure.

        • Omega Z

          Just My Opinion,
          I think Defkalion just couldn’t pull together the Funding they promised Rossi. Defkalion over promised. They didn’t have the solid commitments they implied to Rossi.

          I think Defkalion did have some verbal commitments from people, But when pay up time came, those people didn’t follow through.
          You could also say that Rossi possibly under performed. As in trying to keep his secrets, provided to little evidence.
          To be fair, It is a fine line. To little and investors don’t follow through. To much and someone steals your technology.
          And ultimately, I don’t think Defkalion was straight up with Rossi about their difficulties.

          You can be deceitful in this world to protect your IP, but being deceitful with a partner can be the end. Especially when you tell that Partner you have money in hand when you really don’t. Just uncommitted commitments.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Possible. The story was confirmed (pretty much) by both parties, and Defkalion allegedly had the Spectrascope data. I was thinking money was the one thing Defkalion did have.

            It does appear to be true however that Rossi did not disclose stability issues during 2011, but some existed.

            I am a strong believer in the Ecat. The Ecat though is not so much an invention as a tube with the right ingredients. I think a dollar store flashlight is likely more complicated in design. This will make it too easy to steal the tech no matter how many patents make it, and I predict every unemployed solar scientist will be knocking fake ecats off in their basements once the catalyst(s) is/are revealed.

            I think Defkalion was hoping the tech would break quickly and then they could steal a share in courts. They outlined a lot of Gibberish about plants in Xanthi, and requiring 380 employees, and that they were testing hundreds. These were all bold lies. Read PDF (especially bottom)…
            http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Defkaliondefkaliong.pdf
            “The second factory is scheduled to be built in Xanthi within 2012 comprising of 12,000m2 for a larger assembly line. A third factory, belonging to Praxen Defkalion Green Technologies (Global) Ltd., will operate as the producer of the industrial secret n the products’ kernel. t should be noted that larger and smaller factories can become operational according to market demand Total staff requirements for both factories will be around 380, and include technical expertise in the fields of: mechanical engineering, engineering, electronics, plumbing and data management.”
            Had the ecat gone ballistic in 2012 as many of us hoped it would Defkalion would have been in a position to sue for a share. This is my take on it. Maybe they have something now, but name a single person who has seen it aside from the green machine Sterling saw. I don’t think they are real.

  • AstralProjectee

    It seems to me that Rossi is breaking his NDA by saying these things. Especially the one in the update.

    • Mr. Moho

      I think the NDA is about confirming whether what he calls Rossi effect is real or not. The reactor has never been stopped, but for whatever reason it ‘might’ have had COP=1 all along.

      • AstralProjectee

        I guess it depends on the terms of the NDA. Certainly this says something given the results of the last test, though only indirectly.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I doubt Rossi is privy to any information about the tests which are covered by the NDA.
      They went to extremes to isolate Rossi even from the production of the test devices.

      Surely his isolated from direct contact with the testers.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I agree somewhat, but will add that it is likely the other parties that are bound by the agreements. It would make sense that Rossi/Cherokee/IH are the holders of the NDA. Rossi even said one of the terms is that he receives a copy 3 days before publication in order to prepare a defence if the results are negative.

        Rossi seems to have relinquished control, but he is the inventor and former head of a $30 million (USD) company. I think he has a say in what he can or cannot disclose.

        • Bernie777

          Agree, and IH I bet has an observer on site to protect IP.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Yes. Probably 24/7 security would be a good guess.

  • Buck

    The more Rossi guides us with these little pieces, then the truth of the results being “Remarkable” is only reinforced.

    Rossi shared that in his IH R&D lab, he is able to stably run an E-Cat at about 1100C. I am very interested in what ‘version’ was used in the just finished 3rd Party long term test.

    • Buck

      The JONP exchange below suggests that the tested Hot-Cat has the capacity to run stably at about 1100C. The final report will make clear if the test parameters included a stable run rate of 1100C or not. Importantly, the testers were free to adjust the parameters to this temperature target, per Rossi.

      To my understanding, if the 3rd Part Test shows a stable 1100C Hot-Cat, then this will impress those who look to have Hot-Cats run industrial sized power plants.

      I really look forward to reading the test report.

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      Paul

      April 11th, 2014 at 4:42 PM

      Andrea,
      Is the e-cat tested by the independent third party for the last months still “state of the art”? Or has it become obsolete due to further development?
      Paul

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Andrea Rossi

      April 11th, 2014 at 8:48 PM

      Paul:
      It is state of the art, so far; as for the future…”panta rei”.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      • Omega Z

        Heraclitus’ philosophy can be captured in just two words: “panta rei”, literally everything flows, meaning that everything is constantly changing, from the smallest grain of sand to the stars in the sky. Thus, every object ultimately is a figment of one’s imagination. Only change itself is real, constant and eternal flux, like the continuous flow of the river which always renews itself.

  • fusionrudy

    The website of Defkalion has been suspended. What does it mean?

    • Ophelia Rump

      Sounds like a euphemism for “The check bounced again.”

      • Veblin

        You can tell this because of sever problems?

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I agree. Nobody in history (except Sterling Allan) seems to have seen a Defkalion product and they have openly lied in the past.

        http://pesn.com/2013/04/04/9602290_Defkalion-laying-low-preparing-to-make-a-big-splash/

        I had my account deleted from their Forum (remember their Forum?) because I asked a few unwanted questions. “Has anybody ever seen a Defkalion product? Is there a single name that will say this is true?”. They deleted my posts because of that question.

        My suspension page
        http://defkalion-energy.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi?f=4&t=723#?1#?1#WebrootPlugIn#?1#?1#PhreshPhish#?1#?1#agtpwd

        They once said they were going to make a world changing announcement, and then three weeks later they issued a blueprint of their “hyperion” with a fuzzy picture of the same device pictured in above link on the cover. The PDF was hastily drawn and had spelling errors throughout. A 12 year old student could have provided as much “proof”.

        They said they were testing hundreds of devices back in 2012 which they later claimed was mispoken.

        Remember though the Defkalion timeline…

        FROM

        http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Defkaliondefkaliong.pdf

        “The second factory is scheduled to be built in Xanthi within 2012 comprising of12,000m2 for a larger assembly line. A third factory, belonging to Praxen Defkalion Green Technologies (Global) Ltd., will operate as the producer of the industrial secret in the products’ kernel. It should be noted that larger and smaller factories can become operational according to market demand Total staff requirements for both factories will be around 380, and include technical expertise in the fields of: mechanical engineering, engineering, electronics, plumbing and data management. The 1MW Hyperion will be inaugurated in Q4 of 2011 with its production phase to commence in Q1 of 2012. This first 1MW reactor will be the first large scale unit based on multiples of the smaller Hyperion models in array. It will be used to partially supply the energy needs of the factory. It will also be used as a showcase unit. With three factories located in Xanthi, the region will gain in employment, andalso become an international hub where global investors and partners will visit the factory for business and product viewings.”

        They have NEVER shown anything REAL. THEY have openly lied too many times. Then they closed up their Forum, moved from Greece, moved to Canada, and now run a bare bones website on a poor server.

        I honestly think their business plan is to steal a LENR concept and say they had it for years to the courts (After LENR is marketed) in efforts to get a hefty settlement.

    • Christopher Calder

      That sometimes happens because of a server error or for many other reasons. Rossi’s site was “suspended” on at least one occasion and it meant nothing. My own website has been suspended for no reason other than a temporary glitch. Given all that, hopefully, it is just temporary like the hacking attack they suffered last year.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Coming on quarter after the “Restructuring” I just take the word “Suspended” at its defined meaning. Turned off, shutdown, taken offline.

    • Veblin

      It works for me. When in doubt always try with and without www.
      http://www.defkalion-energy.com/

      • LENR G

        Down now even with your alternative URL. Seems to be going up and down. I don’t know what the significance this has, if any.

  • GreenWin

    From the Project Management Knowledge base: “Reliability refers to the probability and or the likelihood that a given
    product will perform in the way and or manner it was intended to
    perform in the efforts that have been deemed required of that given product within or under a specific period of time required.”

    A reliable commercial product would have to run with an operational MTBF >180 days. Should the product rated at 1MWt consist of multiple small “reactors” or reaction chambers e.g. 50 @ 30kWt, intermittent failure of 25% (375kW) would still meet the specified rating. These are simply guesses of course.

    • Ophelia Rump

      That was a fair assessment. Of course some failures are worse than others. A power cycle off and on is one thing, and part replacement a little less tolerable, at the far end of the spectrum melt throughs or blowouts would become intolerable quickly.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Frank,

    Are you planning on writing a review of Mats Lewan’s book? There are some interesting revelations there, like the NASA connection. Be interesting to hear your take on it.

    • Bernie777

      NASA would not pay for the test, if that was one of the reasons the test did not occur, someone should get fired.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        Rossi was asking more than their current budget. LENR is still a Taboo science and if it invested millions of dollars to every “Whacko science” (sorry . but that is what mainstream science considers CF), then they would be dismantled by public oversight soon enough.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    He held many public demonstrations to any who wished to see it. How is that not observable? That was during 2011.

    Think of what you are saying. You have just said that Rossi not only researched this ecat invention and hired Focardi for a number of years, but that he also had enough money left over to immigrate to the United States (Where Corporate Fraud laws are most stringent in the world). Then he purchased a Condo and invested in Real Estate.

    If you think of the above paragraph funding 5+ years of research when he can command a 6 digit salary working for others coupled with his numerous bio-fuel patents means he has sacrificed at least half a million (USD) in pursuit of this project. Much more than that if you look at Factory space and employees.

    Scammers normally use other peoples money, yet Rossi has REFUSED investments by selling shares or normal venues. There was a time when he seemed anxious to fund it entirely by himself.

    If you read more than twice a year you would know shipping information has shown plants delivered to ports in the U.S.

    Years… Yes. I am also sad that ecats were not available in stores a month after discovery, but who asked you to hold your breath. This is new science that has killed people (RIP Andrew Riley, 33 years.old killed by LENR blast) & (RIP Andy Riley also killed in a LENR explosion – Dr. Michael McKubre Still has glass in his face from that sad day).

    If you had followed LENR you would know not only is Andrea Rossi racing to get this product safe and to market, but there are over 20 other organizations with their own LENR devices.

    Maybe wait 20 years and then start whining.

    • Fortyniner

      Actually, investigators concluded that the explosion that killed Andrew Riley was caused by a faulty safety valve that resulted in a pressure test vessel rupturing while Ripley was working on it – nothing to do with LENR as such.

      We need to be very careful about making unfounded suggestions that there can be such a thing as an ‘LENR exposion’. Reactors can melt down, pressure vessels can explode when over-stressed, electricity can kill, and hydrogen oxidises violently in air – but that is the limit of the dangers associated with cold fusion research. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

      http://articles.latimes.com/1992-01-04/news/mn-1181_1_fusion-research

  • Daniel Maris

    “All this makes me wonder how the test results could be anything but
    positive, if the reactor has been working reliably — ie. stably and
    consistently over many months, as it was designed to operate.” I was reading a novel recently describing different national temperaments…and mentioned how Italians love to dramatise everything. That certainly accords with the “could be positive/could be negative” approach.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Yes, I agree. I am second generation Italian. I remember the drama of Sunday dinners at Grandmas house. A big Italian family, so much drama, so lively. There is surely some of that grand theater of life in Rossi.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      That sounds like an interesting novel. What’s it called?

      • Daniel Maris

        A well known book: Captain Correlli’s Mandolin by Louis de Bernieres (UK writer despite the French sounding name). Highly recommended.

  • Bernie777

    Disappointed, Rossi said they still have not solved electric power generation. What could be the hangup?

    • Billy Jackson

      hmmm take this with a grain of salt please.

      Not all engineers are created equal. and with the limited amount of people who have access to this device its quite possible that Rossi isn’t up to the task for this part of the engineering of the device. (not his area of expertise)

      i mean nothing against Rossi, hell he created the device so that says something for his competency. but don’t expect one person to solve all the issues that come up normally that kind of stuff takes teams and specialist.

      the more stuff that gets branched off into different projects the more people you need just to start solving the increasing backlog of problems. Rossi’s team is small so until we get a successful test under our belt i think it will be sometime before we see the type of answers that require larger more diverse teams.

      lets get through the test and see the papers before we start shooting for the stars :)

      • Bernie777

        Billy, thanks, I tend to agree with you.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Well I imagine hooking a LENR device to a turbine is a lot like hooking bagpipes to a leaf-blower and trying to play.

      It could take a while before you want to show the neighbors what you have been up to.

      • US_Citizen71

        You owe me a new keyboard and soda, as my current soda flew out my nose and into my keyboard as I was reading your analogy! : )

      • GreenWin

        Ophelia, should you or other manage to make such an instrument carry a tune, put me down for an order of two. They’ll make fine gifts for my Scotch friends.

    • timycelyn

      I’m pretty sure I’m repeating speculation when this has been discussed before, but the likliest complication seems to me the problem of how a large cold mass of water is contacted to the ecat (single or array) without possibly dropping the temperature to the point where it ‘goes out’.

      Maybe the rate of contact with feed water has to be carefuilly regulated, and when that water – when things get going – converts to superheated steam, things could get a tad complex…….

    • friendlyprogrammer

      The heat is not in tune with what is normally required for a steam engine. Rossi claims the device is more stable at lower temperatures and if it does go too high cascades into a meltdown around 1600 degrees (Nickel melts).

      I’d like to know the answer to this also. I would think it should be a priority.

    • Omega Z

      They will encase the Cat(S) in a salt or some other medium for stability purposes(To avoid shutting down the process). The water will be heated by secondary contact with this medium. This is Quite different then a direct heating of a boiler with fossil fuels.

      They may want to study the heat exchange of a nuclear power plant. It would have a similar heat exchange system, however it’s purpose is to minimize radiation transfer.
      This system also provides a lower quality of steam thus having negative impact on overall efficiency. Around 30%. They’re trying for 40% plus.

      This may take a while. Time to think outside the Box. If the 3rd party test is a great success, I’m sure they’ll bring in people more experienced at this.

      • Fortyniner

        Yes, this is a key issue. We’ve learned that the reactors are stable over long periods, and its possible that some kind of active cooling such as forced air flow was used to prevent overheating during testing. If no cooling other than convection and radiation was employed this would indicate relatively low power output, and the possibility of reaction quenching if forced cooling had been applied.

        So the next question is ‘how much power can be extracted before the reaction is compromised’, and this means active cooling, probably in two stages as you suggest. The simplest solution might be to embed the reactor inside a heavy metal block to act a ‘thermal flywheel’. Liquid coolant could simply be circulated through holes in the block placed some distance from the reactor. Presumably work along these lines is ongoing at IH’s R&D lab.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          It would be best for Rossi if they had used flow calorimetry this time. In that case, the test would not only document the COP, but also the fact that you can remove the heat without destabilizing the reaction.

      • Bernie777

        Thanks for the answer, much more complicated than this non engineer thought. I vote for heat directly to electricity, forget the grid and power companies. (:

        • Omega Z

          I agree, TEG or direct heat to electric energy would be ideal.
          However, the TEG Technology isn’t up to it yet.
          Hopefully in another 5 years. :)

          I’m not an Engineer either, tho I sometimes play 1 on the Blogs. Ha Ha

  • Billy Jackson

    :) why do i get the feeling that Rossi is just as eager to talk about the test as we are for the news of it?

    • Ophelia Rump

      I suspect he reads the comments in this site. I think he may appreciate the support.

      His responses cover the question asked, but they also try to address some other concern someone has expressed recently in the comments. There is a sense of participation and immediacy in that feedback.

      • ecatworld

        I would be pleased if AR did read this site, but honestly, I don’t think he does — he seems not to want to take the time for ‘chatters’. I have sent him links to certain articles from time to time, and I know he does appreciate any support we give him.

        If you read the Lewan book there’s one place when explains why he is so direct in his communications — he feels like he does not have time for anything superfluous. I think browsing ECW would be superfluous for him.

        • Ophelia Rump

          I think he might simply enjoy scanning this site.

          It might be inspirational or motivating, like a break time.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            I don’t think so. At least I basically never read E-sail discussion on sites beacuse it’s too painful to see the errors and misconceptions, and if one starts to comment and fix them, it’s a never-ending job. And doing it partly is worse than not doing at all, hence I don’t to it at all.

            • Omega Z

              Ohh Pekka

              Just tell us where. We’ll be there to provide all kinds of support.
              Of course, you’ll spend hundreds of pleasurable hours correcting our errors & misconceptions. :-)

        • Billy Jackson

          hmm this is one of the busier sites for his device. that being said it would take a very strong personality not to visit occasionally a site dedicated to your life’s work when the large majority support and cheer you on.

      • Mr. Moho

        I definitely think he does (actually: I’m dead certain), even though he would probably deny ever doing that, if you asked him.

    • deleo77

      I believe that Passerini hearing that the performance was remarkable may have rung more true than Rossi wanted to admit. He didn’t want the results to leak that way. So Rossi is trying to slowly leak what he is hearing through his blog without providing specifics. Rossi has likely heard from the testers that things have wrapped up or are close to wrapping up, and that the reactor was stable and things went well. Rossi more than anything probably just wants to express that he is breathing easier these days. I think he was pretty stressed out about these results over the past couple of months. The fact that he doesn’t say “positive or negative” anymore is key.

      There were those rumors in the fall about Rossi being seen in Sweden meeting with the testers. I do think it happened there, either at Upsala or the Royal Swedish Institute. Reading the tea leaves, I think it is safe to say that the reactor showed a long-term positive gain. But on Vortex someone stated a rumor today that the COP wasn’t that high, more in line with what Mizuno achieved. So the big questions are becoming, what was the COP, and when is the report coming out. If the COP was 1.9 or so, the reaction to all of this may be a little ho hum. I think many here are hoping for 6 or higher. As to when the report is coming out, my bet would be late May early June.

  • LENR G

    Perhaps you can tweak out of him that he has seen preliminary results of the test?

    That seems to be what he is implying. Plus the “positive or negative” stuff seems to have been forgotten.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Rossi is not doing the test, he would not know. I doubt that Industrial Heat would allow Rossi to even have direct communicaitons with the testers. He is probably insulated from the world outside his lab. That is what corporations do. They build layers of insulation so valued assets only have to deal with a minimum number of people.

      This would be true for any research engineer. You do not want them distracted from their goals. Beyond that they would not want any hint of taint that he could have been anywhere near anything used in the test. The test devices were made by an independent team.

      Rossi knows what they allow him to know about the test.

      • LENR G

        He’s acting like someone has provided him information on the test results.

  • jousterusa

    As I do, I’m sure many appreciate this update on the testing. I find myself checking in more and more often to find out the latest, and when there’s something new – even Steorn’s AAA battery – I’m glad to read it! Please keep it coming, Frank!

    • Omega Z

      Avoid coming to ECW for a week.(7 days)
      When you come back, You’ll find everyone has been discussing the test results for the last 6 days. :-)
      That’s the way it works…

  • B Fast

    Frank, “Taking Rossi at his word (I don’t see any reason not to)” I think most of us are of quite a different mind on this. If anything Rossi is a spinner of truth. He has publicly declared a whole lot of hooey. I seem to recall that back in 2011 he claimed that he had been heating a factory with e-cat power for a year.

    I am sure that LENR is real because of all of the third party validation (3rd parties examining the e-cat and results from other LENR experimenters like Nasa, Mit, etc.) If I only had Mr. Rossi’s word for it, I would be in the “balderdash” camp.

    • artefact

      “he claimed that he had been heating a factory ”
      Didn’t Focardi show a picture of that experimental heating system in his TED presentation?

      • Barbierir

        yes, Rossi heated his workshop in Bondeno for a year with one of the early ecat

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Since you said “most”, I want to respond that personally I agree with Franck on this point. I don’t know about others.

    • friendlyprogrammer

      I think Rossi has always done what he said he would do. I follow up on what his claims are, and he seems quite honest. Name something that you think is wrong? He did heat his work space for a year using an early ecat. This cannot be proven either way, but things he has stated he will do he has done.

    • Omega Z

      B Fast

      Consider, The E-cat emits approximately 34K BTU
      It was set up in what, a 12×12 room on a desk with Data recorders.
      I would imagine it would be quite toaster in there.
      However, most are envisioning the larger work shop area.

      Most you could claim is misleading or vague.
      It’s a matter of perspective & interpretation..
      It’s small enough he could even have set 1 up in a separate room in his home if he was present and thought it safe enough.