Rossi: E-Cat Testing not yet complete

As we approach the end of March there is inevitably a growing interest in the status of the 3rd party long-term test on the E-Cat that Andrea Rossi has said in the past could be concluded this month. Rossi has just made a statement in response to a question on the Journal of Nuclear Physics saying that as of right now (March 17, 2014), the testing has not ended:

Andrea Rossi
March 17th, 2014 at 2:27 AM
Eernie 1:
1- the experiment is not finished yet
2- I do not think it will take more than a month to the end, but this is a supposition of mine, maybe wrong
3- The publication of the report will be made, indipendently from the results, positive or negative as they might be. I cannot know when. I will have the report before the publication, but I do not know if I will be authorized to make it public: I signed an NDA, valid for all the participants, in which is written the engagement not to make public any information before the publication of the Report.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

While the testing is not over, Andrea Rossi has made some statements lately indicating that he has some knowledge of the details of the setup involved in the test. For example, he has said that the professors involved have been taking steps to avoid some of the criticisms that were made in the last test, such as electronically insulating the frame which is holding the hot cat, and setting up equipment that will be able to measure any DC input power (Rossi says there is none).

It’s looking likely that even if the test winds up in the next couple of weeks, that we’ll have to wait until April, or maybe later, for the report to be published.

  • Anthony Richards

    Hi Fortyniner and Bachcole,

    Thanks for taking the trouble to respond.

    Apologies for the delay in getting back to you,but my computer went into ‘failure to start-up’ mode last week and I only got it back today !

    All comments noted and digested. We do in fact have a lot of big guns on our side such as the RSPB and our own county council but the vested interests seem to have almost unlimited cash to throw at the opposition (us) and we don’t have their resources.

    The open meeting at which points can be raised is only next week so I don’t have a lot of time to canvass other supporters, but thought to mention some or all of the following:

    i) Ministry of Defence taking note of CF, albeit from a potential political instability viewpoint. I think I’ll open with this, as it’s a UK issue and a major entity.

    ii) Large companies working on CF, e.g. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, NASA, Industrial Heat, plus smaller ones such as Brillouin, Defkalion.

    iii) Brillouin’s contract to convert a stranded asset coal power station to CF later this year.

    iv) The race to be first to market being run as we speak.

    v) Successful 3rd party test last year with another ongoing at present.

    vi) CF being a complete game-changer, producing abundant energy almost free.

    vii) Brief description of how CF works.

    viii) Being deliberately ignored by mainstream media (why ? fingers burnt with Pons / Fleischmann issue or some other reason ?

    ix) Suggest windfarm developres would be better off pursuing CF licences than wasting resources on inefficient and obsolete technology

    x) offer to update Public Enquiry Inspector with further CF news as it develops.

    Is the above factually correct, and can anyone suggest further points or indeed deletions ?

    Speakers only have 3 minutes, so will have to rehearse this !

    Thanks.

  • Omega Z

    If their a bunch of meanie heads, maybe he should get them to press their ear to the tracks to listen. Oh Wait. E-cats don’t make much noise. 🙂

    • bachcole

      E-Cats don’t make much noise when there aren’t any. They will make a lot of noise there are some. So he needs to hold people by the hand and show them with pictures and patience and person-to-person chats.

  • Omega Z

    All dealings with the Patent Process are now in the hands of IH.
    That’s a Plus. They are far better equipped to deal with this then Rossi.

    IMHO, Once Rossi’s secret sauce, “What ever that Is” Becomes known, The LENR Field will Explode shortly after they get their hands on it.

    What separates All others involved in the research from Rossi is that they can either produce small quantities of excess energy for long periods of time, Or, Large quantities of excess energy for a short period of time.
    Rossi can produce Large quantities of excess energy for Long Periods of time. He has the secret pixie dust.

    The Evidence that all Eyes are on Rossi IMO. All predict their time to market according to Rossi’s latest statements.
    If Rossi says, It will be in production in January, Everyone else says July. If Rossi restates the time to July, They change theirs to Years End.
    It’s a Pattern. I think Rossi sometimes says things just to play games with them. I believe this is part of Rossi’s personality. Having fun with them. Also gives him feedback as to their circumstances.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You do not need a very long test once you identify fraud, so I think we can rule that out.
    Had the testers detected some hoax the test would have abruptly ended long ago.

  • US_Citizen71

    The reason for trying gas turbines versus staying with steam turbines only is efficiency going from thermal energy to electricity. Steam turbines top out at about 40% thermal efficiency due to the carnot cycle. Gas turbines can go as high as 60% thermal efficiency. He never said what type of turbine he was using for the tests it could be one from an old power plant, but more likely one from old airplane jet engine due to cost, smaller size and larger availability.

    • Kwhilborn

      We are talking about a gram of Nickel giving more energy than 5 barrels of oil. Efficiency should not be the first concern and would come with time once LENR cars are driving everywhere.

      It is a POSITIVE SIGN HE IS WORKING ON POWER CONVERSION HOWEVER AND SHOULD BE NOTED.

      • Omega Z

        I found Rossi’s statements about the type of turbine confusing. The Language problem. I suspect he meant Steam turbine or Gas turbine.
        Considering the Hot Cat is a sealed system, a Gas turbine would indicate extremely super heated steam or air. Not Natural Gas.

        He also mentioned Co-generation & Tri-generation.
        Co-generation would be Electric generation & using the lost heat for hot water/heating processes.
        Tr-Generation would be similar to Co-Generation with the addition of heat absorption Chillers.(AC).

        Both Systems Highly Utilizable for large buildings/apartment or business/commercial needs. This would probably be the Fastest way to roll out the product for the quickest benefit to society & ROI.

        Converting Coal plants would be much slower as there is already waiting lists for the necessary components to do so. Each would require custom boiler design & builds.
        Co/Tri Generation systems would be much smaller with a standard design & mass producible. Coal Plant conversion could still be implemented, but wouldn’t hold the technology roll out back as a whole.

  • Christopher Calder

    It is a good sign that the test is taking a long time. If the E-Cat or Hot-Cat failed to produce interesting amounts of energy, they would have given up on the test allot sooner.

  • Gerard McEk

    If I were testing an E-Cat, I would like to know how long the thing could run without refill. Of course I would make an interim report after half a year (which is the guaranteed run-time without refill), but I would want to see how long it could actually run. The longer it runs the more convincing it becomes.

    With regards to the precautions to take that no fraud takes place I would:
    – Electrically insulate the E-Cat: no metal connection to the framework.
    – Check currents (AC/DC) of all the wires to the E-Cat
    – The E-Cat should be located in a Faraday cage (EM radiation shield)
    – In case the cage has holes, Al foil should be used to shield IR radiation (IR Laser beam)
    – Use my own calibrated instruments
    – Install my own camera’s
    – Take remote (WiFi) and local on paper recordings of the instruments
    – Preferably I would pick the location for testing

    • MMK

      In addition, I would want to establish at what temperature the reaction starts to kick in
      And at what point the reaction will drop out. Do this a few times. I would run it until the cat exhausted and the temperature
      Is starting to drop, matching that of a dummy unit.

    • Ophelia Rump

      You left out neutron bombardment detectors. lol.
      At some point the complexity of the hoax becomes more difficult than actually inventing a working fusion device.

  • Kwhilborn

    IMPORTANT!!!

    I think NASA will author this report.

    We know he shipped his 1MW plant to Norfolk, Virginia which is about 10 miles from NASA, Langley. This is the NASA location Dennis Bushnell is Chief Research Scientist and he authored the NASA paper “Realism and Outlook” proponing LENR. This is also where Joe Zawodny of the two NASA videos and slideshow works. It is the home of their LENR team.

    Is it a coincidence the power plant got shipped to within ten miles of NASA, Langley? Maybe.

    This report a question was put to Rossi.. Did they bring their own equipment and measuring devices in which he responded yes. This means that the report will again have been on his premises. I’m contradicting myself here because I’m guessing NASA has/had the plant. I’m still confused.

    Andrea Rossi recently mentioned maybe NASA will say something interesting.
    “Rossi responded:
    Frank Acland:
    Extremely interesting. Soon we will learn from NASA something important.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”
    NOTE: He does not say “MAYBE SOON”. This sounds more like a statement than a guess.

    NASA is known to have knocked on Rossi’s door in the past, and clearly like his Nickel/Hydrogen version and have been using Widom/Larsen Theory with it.

    I personally feel jumping to Turbine/Jet Engine research will only serve to slow down LENR’s arrival in home depot. Is the Government playing on Rossi’s familiarity with gov. R&D?

    I just want a LENR/BLP/HHO boat so I can get on the oceans for years at a time. I could do without a LENR jet.

    • ecatworld

      I don’t know anything about international shipping, but I would guess that if a plant was being sent to the Research Triangle area in North Carolina, it might come via a major port like Norfolk Virginia (a neighboring state) and then put on a truck or train for the remainder of the journey.

      Rossi’s NASA comment (which was hastily deleted) is certainly intriguing. It makes me wonder if there is a NASA researcher on the testing team, or if perhaps the testing is taking place at NASA.

      • Sanjeev

        I feel the same, may be this time there are some NASA people in the 3rd party team, thus his comment.
        Its a possibility that one of the unit from the big blue box went to NASA, but he has already said that the plant was delivered to his partner. By now we know that most of the things he says come out to be true. If he wants to hide something he refuses to tell.

        • Kwhilborn

          I cannot see the verification having any more impact than the last one. I love Ecat/Rossi, but it appears it will be on his premises AGAIN, and the possibility of secret lasers and other such nonsense will be at the disposal of Pathoskeptics who rule science.

          I do have hopes for the MIT convention this month though.

          • Omega Z

            Actually, the Tests may be at IH Facilities, But I agree, The Skeps will still make the same argument.

      • clovis ray

        It is very reasonable to assume the later, this would be undeniable, if nasa were doing the testing,
        I sincerely hope this to be true.

      • Buck

        Frank,

        Rossi’s quick edit/deletion of his NASA comment feels similar to the engineering teammate’s quick edit of his LinkedIn profile that pointed directly to IH. Time proved that the quick edit was a flag driving the discovery of IH’s strong ties to the Chinese political and alternative energy industry, that industry’s financial interest in LENR, and in the end IH’s own admission of partnership with Rossi.

        IMHO, if NASA is directly involved, then a positive result will easily sway interested investors. In addition, the MSM will have a challenge assessing how to present the positive results.

        • Kwhilborn

          Or it could be a government intervention to delay this technology to make it less disruptive. It is a disruptive tech for a reason, although my vision of it shows greater good. They have taken focus from selling and home Depot to Jet Engines/Turbines.

          If NASA is involved they have distanced themselves through several shell corporations and a state line (even if only 200 miles apart). Will they be as outspoken then… I trust Bushnell.. I think.

          • Buck

            Considering your other posts on this topic, I think your tension at the prospect of NASA involvement has you vacillating because of the excitement at the prospect.

            I’m not inclined to think this is a delaying tactic. If anything, this theory fits an optimistic scenario of Gov’t involvement bringing a revolutionary technology through the political and economic minefield to implementation. NASA is strongly associated with extreme technology for extreme solutions. They are eccentric ‘rocket scientists’ who are associated with the Public/Citizens rather than the military industrial complex like the Pentagon. The NASA ‘brand’ won’t be hurt by pursuing LENR.

            Like you, I trust Bushnell. But, only time will tell who is really involved in this newest 3rd-Party testing.

    • Lu

      According to Rossi, the 1MW plant was to be shipped to a Customer of the Partner. We also know according to Rossi that once installed and operational this plant is to be visitable. We also know it went to Norfolk, VA which is very close to NASA in Langley which has been associated with the E-Cat. And then there is Rossi’s retracted statement….

      Putting all of this together, if the 1MW were installed in a NASA facility and visits were allowed, that would be absolutely stunning.

      • Kwhilborn

        The research Triangle also has a science display which can be viewed online in virtual tour. No LENR yet though.

    • C. Kirk

      As I’ve said previously, my guess is that Rossi was just being a bit sarcastic saying “soon we will learn from Nasa something important” similar to him saying ” at last we have a serious competitor” when someone stated that Nasa was studying the E-Cat but then again I thought the possibility that Industrial Heat was Rossi’s partner was only about 25% (before IH confirmed the fact )

      • Kwhilborn

        IH is 200 miles from NASA, Langley home of Dennis Bushnell, Joe Zawodny and the LENR team there. This plant arrived at a port 10 miles from that location.

        NASA has knocked on Rossi’s door in the past.

        I think it is too much a coincidence that he is also working on Jet Engines/Flight when we know that is a NASA Boeing joint LENR focus.

        It seems obvious, but … we will see.

  • MasterBlaster7

    The report is all fine and dandy. But, I want to know how far out they are from sticking an e-cat into a (stranded asset) coal plant. I am waiting for that “Bloom Energy” moment.

    • clovis ray

      hi, mb7
      first things first, this is how i think it will go first test, test report, demo of the low temp cat in place producing industrial heat, and then, slide in modules for coal fired power stations, and so on, once we get the grid changed out , starting with the power plants, them cars, and later on home units to secure our energy from attack, by hostile forces , a independent power grid, supported by the people for a final, effort..

      • mcloki

        The role out won’t be orderly. Once the tech gets proven to work in a Coal plant. Thousands, and I do mean thousands of companies will try to be first to market in ever niche imaginable. Why build cars when you could just build e-Cat drive trains and sell to multiple manufacturers. And with China’s pollution problems you think they wait in a market of a billion people. Proof of E-Cat working sets off the next Industrial revolution and retooling bonanza. Everything gets rethought, redone, rebuilt.

        • BuildItNow

          Right, and think of all the industries that will “freeze up” much like the banks froze up in 2008. Anything to do with energy that has a payback time of more than a few years. New, power plants of all types, coal, nuclear, solar, oil / gas well development etc. Distribution systems for electricity and fuel (power lines, pipe lines, refineries etc.) These will slump badly or freeze up. Many will be out of work, but, hey, there is a big bonanza, the new thing, cold fusion. All the unemployed will hungrily jump on the new thing, with millions switching to cold fusion, my head will spin at the speed of adoption … will yours?

        • Anthony Richards

          Well, Brillouin apparently have a contract to refit a coal power station
          later this year. Yes, I agree – once the first application is seen to be obviously working, there will be an avalanche.

          Now,
          can I enlist a bit of help here ? In our part of the UK we have a
          Public Enquiry into some proposed windfarms and associated power lines.
          Most of the local populace doesn’t want these and is fiercely opposed
          (hence the Enquiry), however we’re up against the greed of developers
          who can rake in megabucks in subsidies at the expense of everyone else.

          I
          had it in mind to draw the attention of the Enquiry to CF since, if /
          when it demonstrably works, then these inefficient ‘green’ energy sources
          will become obsolete overnight. It’s a pity we’re not a year further on
          as I’d be surprised if we didn’t have something concrete by then, but what do we have at this moment ?

          Brillouin’s S Korea project, last year’s E-Cat test, NASA – all very weel, but nothing really definite.

          Ideas, anyone ?

          • Fortyniner

            I wish you luck, but after attempting and failing to get a reaction from three energy ministers and a senior Nuclear Decommissioning Authority officer by presenting them with current information about CF, I’ve come to realise that there is an unofficial stone wall in place. As you suggest, it will be next to impossible to gain any traction against wind turbines, biomass burners and all the other idiocies until a viable alternative is actually on the market.

            All new power systems including ‘green’ and nuclear profit someone enough to attract self serving politicians to their various causes, in order to pull all the right strings. However at the moment, not only there is no money in cold fusion for promoters and their political friends, but adoption of the technology would displace someone’s little earner. This of course means not neutrality and rational consideration, but opposition from those whose interests are threatened, including politicians.

            If local (successful) efforts to head off turbine farms are any indication, the best course is to try to get the support of the RSPB, who will bring in heavy guns to argue that turbines kill lots of birdies. Admittedly though, in the case I’m referring to, the proposed site in now part of the Hinkely Point C construction site (something that may have had more than a passing bearing on the outcome of the ‘enquiry’ that killed the proposal) and the locals are now regretting their opposition to the turbines. Not, I suspect, that this would have made any difference either way – it just provided a good smokescreen.

        • Omega Z

          IMO, Electric cars with 500 to 1000 Mile range Batteries. Plug it in.
          E-cat Cars wont happen until someone finds a way for efficient direct heat to electric. And Still, you will need a battery rack.

          Otherwise:
          E-cat car- 30Kwh Hot Cat. Immersed in a container of demineralized water or salts. Within a chamber of water to convert to steam.
          Will need replenished every so many miles.
          Or a Turbine system which also requires demineralized water & a condensing system to loop it back.
          And you still need a battery rack.
          Electric cars will be cheaper.

      • Roy O’Neil

        CR, You nailed it. Precisely the sequence I think we’ll see. Aircraft and space applications will come after cars.