New H-Cat Video

Thanks to David55 for pointing out this new video posted on Youtube by someone who goes by the name ‘Woopy’, who has been doing quite a bit of experimenting with HHO gas and material taken from a catalytic converter. This video shows him inserting a syringe into the middle of a piece of catalytic material, and flowing the HHO gas on the inside of the catalyst which brings about a reaction which can be easily seen in the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-UUnHq0gjU

He shows that the temperature measured here is above the range of of the thermometer he is using — 250 degrees C, he says. Also, it’s not clear whether that temperature measured is widespread throughout the catalytic material, or whether it just found on a certain spot where the HHO gas interacts with the catalytic material.

Whether the reaction shown is an LENR one that produces excess heat is yet to be determined, but it’s good that people like Woopy are still experimenting with these systems and are willing to share their results with the general public. It has the effect, I think, of encouraging more experimentation, and hopefully some effective calorimetry system can be designed to help us get an accurate picture of what is going on here, and whether it is significant.

  • AlanSmith

    The experiment I’m doing should clarify whether there is anything special about catalysis as a recombination method for HHO as against a naked flame. Proper calorimetry is the only way I can be sure of a clean and reproducible result.
    IF, and I do mean if there is a difference in the heat evolved then we have discovered something very interesting. First thing then is to invest in a radiation dosimeter -as the man standing next to the machine I would appreciate something better than a few litres of water between me and a gamma/neutron source. 🙂

    The catalyst sample needs to be weighed accurately at the start and end of the experiment – just to be sure there is no monkey business going on. Something else to go on the list- Thanks to JYM for mentioning that.

    I am by no means ruling out experiments after this first series, and I hope there will be dialogue and eventual consensus about the next steps when these first ones are done.

    Just for the donors, thanks again. The money raised has almost covered the cost of the materials – Madame is not looking at the paypal account in too horrified a way… yet!

  • david55

    If you had a 10 MHZ spectrum in New York and 6 million user with pcell Technology you have 6 million 10 MHZ channel but in cell Technology you have just one 10 MHZ channel for 6 million user

    • Omega Z

      They believe the Pcell will fix everything, but it too could eventually be overloaded.

      IMO, that may happen for a period of time, But I think with following Generations this may subside as people decide they don’t want to be connected 24/7. A Drop in demand.

      Wont happen quickly, but there are some signs of this already to a small extent.
      Even Narcissists will quite posting every 5 minutes when they realize, “No One Is Looking Anymore”.
      Look at ME, Look at ME, Heyyy, Look at ME.
      Where is everybody???

  • david55

    Pcell (personal cell) is nothing short of reinvention of Wireless Technology, current Wireless network is based on cell Technology ( mobile 3g 4g LTE ,WiFi, satellite ) that means they broadcast a frequency
    in one channel for many user so bandwidth of this channel must be shared between this user, method
    of sharing is “low speed internet connection ,data cap ,expensive price”. and with more user each year
    this condition get worse and worse because bandwidth is fix and in next generation 5g maybe they can
    increase it 4 time but in end you have same problem again but pcell broadcast a frequency in one channel for each user so you have full bandwidth of channel all time that means pcell can just with 10MHZ spectrum give whole New York city unlimited high speed Wireless internet connection that you can use it to watch 24/7 HD movie or 4k for whole year with price compared to cable .

  • Obvious

    How about soak a piece of cat in H2O then annihilate with arc welder as per Blacklight demo?

  • Jaja6984

    It’s so easy to measure if there is excess heat, so why isn’t someone doing it?

    As I understand it they use a HHO-generator alleged consuming 50W. So do like this:

    1. Put the H-cat in a box and start it up. Measure the maximum temperature reached inside the box.
    2. Now take out the H-cat and put a 50W light bulb inside the box. Measure the maximum temperature reached inside the box.

    If temperature 1 is higher than 2, you are on to something interesting. Can be done in a couple of hours, get on to it!

    • Neal Ward

      Why don’t you do it , if it is so easy and will only take a few hours ?
      Go on get on to it !
      A 50 watt light bulb would be a stupid test, a light bulb is designed for light not heat.
      We will get around to the numbers when we get around to the numbers……Not a minute before….You are welcome to get off your ass and show us how it is done , if we are not doing it to your liking that is !

  • david55
    • ecatworld

      Thanks for sharing, david — it looks very significant.

  • clovis ray

    hi, frank, good suggestion , i would be willing to donate some if we get the go ahead from bob G , a team project we all can get involved in, i like it.

  • deepak

    I am following ecat since last three years .Most part of it was testing and presentation of new devices by several groups around the word. In particular rossi have sold one of the ecat reactor.First third party test have been completed and it has been some time since he solde his reactor to customer . So I believe user acceptance testing also might have done. Why he waiting for another testing results. The new experiments are awesome but all I want is some concrete product in market and nobody seem to be giving some deadline for that.

    • LENR G

      That’s what he says he wants too (a product on the market).

      The previous acceptance testing and semi-independent validation by Levi et. al. were good but insufficient to release a product that’s supposed to run for at least 6 months. Once Industrial Heat bought Rossi’s technology they needed to undergo a final stage of R&D as well as testing prototypes for at least 6 months. They simultaneously are having another independent group do a 6 month validation.

      We’re at the end of that stage now — we’re told end of March is when the testing should finish up and then however long to release the validation reports.

      I don’t know how long we are from E-Cat reactors working as industrial power plants. I think we’ll get a first customer and public acknowledgement sometime this summer. But that’s just a guess. I think the Spring will bring a flurry of activity as LENR emerges from the shadows. We’re still quite a ways from widespread product availability though I think.

  • GreenWin

    Frank, sorry to wander OT, here but could you look for my post at Always Open Thread about Wall Street’s investment community being introduced to E-Cat?? Posted twice, disappeared twice. I titled it “Wall Street Hears an E-Cat” – it discusses the Motley Fool advisory firm’s interview with Blue Phoenix CEO John J. Licota recommending National Instruments. Thanks Frank!!

    • ecatworld

      I found it, GW — for some reason it had slipped into the spam folder, not of my doing! It’s posted now.

  • Freethinker

    OT:

    Anybody have a clue as to Cruz’es energy plan to be presented?

    He seem concerned that the climate data does not support the AGW theory …. Maybe he has the capacity to think outside the box?

    Link to CCN article: http://cnn.it/1hmvSpE

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Nobody says that it is water. It’s a mixture of the gaseous products (hydrogen and oxygen) of the electrolysis of water. Some people claim that HHO gas has different properties than a mixture of plain H2 and O2. I’m not saying that they are wrong, but I would appreciate some comparative experiments which support this claim.

    • Fortyniner

      I think that might be a second phase (elucidation) experiment, especially as getting an exactly stoichiometric mix with basic equipment would be difficult. A simple energy in vs. energy out would be more useful up front. If there is no energy gain, then from our POV it doesn’t much matter whether ‘Brown’s gas’ differs from a stoichiometric mixture of H2/O2.

      • Obvious

        An exact stoichiometric mix of two H to one O gasses would be easy. Avogadro’s Law shows that simply doubling the pressure of the H side, in the same starting volume compared to the O side will make a 2:1 ratio of gasses, should the H and O be generated separately as a test, then mixed. It should (for calculating pressure) make no difference if the H is simply H or H2, or O is an O or O2. Reducing the volume by 1/2 of the H is equivalent to doubling the pressure. Doubling the volume of the H at the same pressure is also equivalent to doubling the H content.

        • Fortyniner

          It would require either two very accurate flowmeters operating in the ml/min range and arrangements for standardising the pressure and temperature of the raw gases delivered to them, or pre-mixing hydrogen and oxygen at controlled temperatures, which would need to be very limited in volume for safety reasons. Neither option would be particularly easy in practice, the former would require some very specialised kit, and the latter could be both fiddly to carry out accurately, and potentially dangerous.

          • Obvious

            A one liter/quart jar at atmospheric pressure, room temperature of H2 and a two liter/quart jar of O2 at atmospheric pressure and room temperature would be exactly a 2:1 ratio. Combine both jars at atmospheric pressure in a 3 liter jar. Water displacement would work fine. A 100% perfect stoichiometric mixture isn’t necessary at this point, since the browns gas generator is probably slightly contaminating the “HHO” with atmosphere, electrolyte additives, and some water anyways.

            • Obvious

              Regarding above, I think a simple flow ratio meter would be fairly easy to construct using a calibrated bubblers with two separate volumes of displaced water (one double the volume of the other, for H). If the levels are equal in each bubbler, then the mixture is 2:1. For small gas volumes an inline bubbler would be OK, for large volumes some bypass circuit-type system would be needed. Long cylinders gravity fed with large reservoirs should be able to cover a wide range of flow rates. A float connected to a shutoff valve could keep water from exiting the top when shut off.

  • Fortyniner

    I agree. There seems to be little doubt that the mixed gases from electrolysis of water will recombine with release of heat on contact with a suitable catalyst. ‘HHO’ electrolysers are designed to split water and catalytic converters are designed to react anything that burns. Without a full energy audit the phenomenon is not really of that much interest.

    However if a competent set of measurements is performed that shows net energy gain, then here’s a simple, repeatable shortcut to a possible form of LENR, or an entirely new subset of physics. Then it becomes interesting, and the garage experimenters can have a field day building heaters that run on a few watts of input.

    Given what is just possibly to gain, it would be great if MFMP could find the time to do a fairly quick and dirty experiment to determine whether this is something to get excited about, or something to ignore. I’m sure a quick round of crowd funding would provide a good pulsed electrolyser (‘HHO’ generator) – the rest of the necessary kit should pretty much be to hand, or at least available from the nearest scrapyard.

    • ecatworld

      I agree, 49r. I would be happy to try to promote a fundraiser here for the basic equipment needed to do a quick and dirty test to see if this was an interesting phenomenon or not, so long as the funding goal was reasonably inexpensive

      • Fortyniner

        Bob G. ???

  • barty

    Why isn’t MFMP doing such tests?
    It seems very very cheap and without much effort.

    They have the equipment to find out what type the reaction is.

    • nickec

      I believe with some nudging, they will. I too hope they do.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I believe they are too busy raising money to do testing and stuff.

        • Fortyniner

          Admin – this comment is unwarranted, unjustified and inappropriate, and adds nothing to the discussion. Please consider moderation.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Oxygen and Hydrogen when burned in the right ratio can reach well in excess of 2500ºC. Because of this, from the 1820s – it was used in combination with lime – to create stage lights (called lime lights) That glow extremely brightly, “HHO” can easily melt many ceramics on its own.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limelight

      Monoatomic Hydrogen on its own, when forming molecular Hydrogen can reach temperatures near 4000ºC and is the basis for the Langmuir torch. Monoatomic Hydrogen does not tend to convert to molecular by just two H collisions as the retained energy splits H again.

      436.22kJ +H2 2H

      It requires a large receiver for the released energy (M), such as a larger molecule or surface, the larger the surface area and the more catalytic, the higher the chance of rapid molecular formations.

      H + H + M > H2 + M (excited)

      Monoatomic Hydrogen can survive for 0.5s under the right conditions. Additionally, nascent hydrogen (H in the first moments after its production by electrolysis) is more highly reactive.

      Platinum is pretty much the best catalyst for catalysing the re-combination of H+H into H2 and the MFMP is conducting detailed and extensive research on this as part of our work to test the claims made by Celani for his wires. Catalytic convertors similarly contain Platinum and it is is conceivable that some 2H reaches the section of the catalytic convertor un-combined and then on contact, recombines, releasing large amounts of energy even from room temperature. A number of these contacts can raise the temperature to the ignition temperature of HH0 (Approx 700ºC) and conceivably this could then “burn” without a flame maintaining the 700ºC. Any HHO > H2O and H+H events could raise the temperature anywhere up to 4000ºC.

      If anyone wants to test this out, there is likely an even cheaper way than getting an old car exhaust part. Just buy a zippo hand warmer for around $20-30.

      http://www.tooled-up.com/Zippo_Hand_Warmer.aspx

      This uses platinum catalysed flameless combustion of lighter fuel from cold and might readily work with HHO.

      Additionally, if H is the converted to a plasma of H+ ions and electrons (by arc or high-frequency field), the subsequent recombination to form normal gas and molecules can reach temperatures of between 15,000 – 19,000ºC, I wouldn’t touch that!

      • Justin Church

        Thank you for the insight. The zippo hand warmer is neat. That would work well in a testing scenario. I have chosen to stick with the automobile catalytic converter because of the moderate size, simplicity, toughness and ease of implementing into different heating scenarios. Auto Cats are rock solid pieces of equipment. Without the buildup of gunk and carbon, running hydrogen or hho through it at stable temperatures would mean it may last for centuries. 1/8″ solid stainless steel casing isn’t too shaby either. If you can pull a $200 dollar catalytic converter off a store shelf and build a substantial heavy duty heating source out of it, its worth it, that would be priceless for me. I’d pay 1000’s of dollars for the technology if it worked. The idea of a hho catalytic hand warmer sounds very intriguing as well but we want more power. I don’t see that hand warmer heating an entire room but I do see an automobile catalytic converter being able to.

        The math and information you provided should show anyone that the heat potential is there. I just don’t see a Celani wire cell being used for anything other than testing and number crunching. The people want real world products doing real world work. I’m hoping to have my parts welded to the cat this week so I can run some further tests with this but this is definitely something you guys could do and it would be stupid cheap to do and entertain us all. I could even get some of the guys involved to donate the essential pieces of equipment. Cat, HHO Cell, PWM, ect. But I’m sure you guys have the reserved funding already to make this happen since its a drop in the bucket compared to some of the cost of the equipment you guys have. I really don’t understand why the fusion researchers are not thinking logically about this research. The reactors seem very basic to me and I really don’t see why a normal Automobile Catalytic Converter cannot be used as the reactor itself. Seems to me looking back at Rossi’s old work, what he had all insulated up may have been a catalytic converter.

        Either way the proof is in the pudding. I’d love for it to happen but would be very sad if one of us garage tinkerers pulled off something that the corporate or high level researchers couldn’t make happen all these years. While you guys play with probes and data loggers, we are trying to build real working technologies, I hope someday you guys can do the same….

        • Bob Greenyer

          Everything I wrote was known HHO science, much of which came from 1820s Bude research (lime light etc) and later 1920s Langmuir research (langmuir torch/re combination of H on surfaces). All of the temperatures detailed and processes are well documented in inorganic chemistry text books. Essentially, nothing more than highly focused release of energy put in.

          That is not to say that there may not be an excess, just that we would be likely looking for a small signal on a VERY large baseline which might present some very difficult calibration challenges.

          There is one test that you can do very cheaply that would help add understanding to what is going on, that is test if the gas is dry – conversely, if it is humid. Get some cheap humidity strips from here

          http://www.pnjresources.com/Humidity%20Test.html

          get a glass test tube tube with a screw cap, place the test strip in the glass tube and activate it as described on the site, screw the cap on immediately. Push one needle through (this will form the exhaust) put the needle of the HHO output through. Start the flow.

          This will determine if you have water in your HHO flow.

          Why is this interesting, well, Celani reported that putting 1cc of water into his cells increased excess heat and Black Light Power say they need water on/near their catalyst for their new process to work. Maybe there is a connection.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Thank you, that sounds interesting.
        What do you think about the following scenario?

        1. The reaction site is heated up by normal catalytic 2H2/O2 combustion.
        2. As soon as the temperature is high enough, some of the supplied H2 splits into H+H.
        3. H+H recombines into H2, therefore you can get locally very high temperatures.

        • Bob Greenyer

          There are MANY potential scenarios, including combustion on the old Catalytic convertor of carbon deposits. H2 needs VERY high temperatures normally to split into H – 1700K to 3000K on tungsten filament. The interesting thing is that recent research shows that local temperatures on/between resonant nano structures can reach orders of magnitude above the bulk average temperature and that is what we are testing for here

          http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/general-updates/351-i-think-we-are-splitting-hydrogen

          in relation to Celanis wires, effectively a catalytic/resonant process to split H ideally into a state that it could take part in some form of LENR.

          We have discussed within MFMP about using the residual gas analyser we had donated to us by Nikita Alexandrov for input and output testing. There is a big problem seeing small elements like Hydrogen and helium, but water and CO2 should be detectable. The bummer is the guy that learnt how to operate the device is moving on.

          If the H-Cat community could provide a test set up and someone come to say the Minnesota site and spend a bit of time getting to grips with the analyser, then we could find out a bit more detail of what is going on.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    I would like to see the same experiment with hydrogen and oxygen coming from commercially available gas cylinders. My hypothesis is that you would observe the same effect. But it should be tested.

    • Gerard McEk

      Indeed, that would be more simply to do than constructing a reliable calorimeter. The difficulty might be adjusting the optimal flows of both gasses and the danger of explosion.