New ‘H-Cat’ Experiment Proposed

I know there are some readers who have been dismissive of the ideas of Justin Church regarding his HHO-catalytic converter experiments, but being curious I find them intriguing enough to want to feature them here and follow his progress, and I know I’m not the only one.

Here’s what Justin wrote yesterday regarding a new experiment he is planning:

Hey guys, I didn’t notice this page until last night but I wanted to give an update. I’ve got some stainless caps and threaded bushings on order. Only 20 bucks hahaha. When I get them in I will do a video on what I plan to do. Essentially I’m sealing the ends of the cat so I can inject pure gas into it. A friend of mine can weld stainless so he has offered to get the bushings mounted to the cat for me. Going to be awesome…

I followed up with a question to Justin about whether he expected that sealing the catalytic converter would result in either an explosion or a meltdown, and he responded:

Don’t think it will melt or explode. I’m drilling an exhaust hole in the bottom to release water and prevent pressurization. Gas is going in… water coming out. I’m not going to play with pressure systems yet. I’m hoping I can run on demand with it throttle gas up and down to control temps.

I’m interested to see how this next experiment goes, and I’m keeping an open mind about this whole experimental approach. Is it LENR? I really don’t know, and I don’t think anyone can say definitively, but then again, I don’t think anyone has fully defined what LENR is anyway. For now I’m treating this as an interesting phenomenon that might yield useful energy, and I’m curious to learn more.

  • Hans van Pel

    Hi Folks,

    Before you all continue your exiting experiments, you must read some background information
    about what HHO, or Brown’s gas really is. It’s not just HH and O, which can
    burn and become H2O. The real thing in Brown’s
    gas is de special form of water. If you want to know more about it you should look
    at the research Chris Eckman has done. And yes, transmutation is also possible with
    Brown’s. It is used for cleaning up nuclear material! And that brings you close
    to LENR.
    Maybe we are now close to where Rossi started a few years ago.

    And pleas,
    be careful with this HHO stuff.

  • david55

    Justin
    why h-cat forum is down ?

    http://hho-cat.hostoi.com/forums

    • ecatworld

      Feel free to use the E-Cat World forum for discussion about HHO-Catalyzer topics. I’ve created a section in there for the H-Cat. You can create any threads you like in there: http://www.e-catworld.com/forum/

      • david55

        Admin
        Can you add a professional forum like phpbb or vBulletin to ecatworld ? i don’t think current forum to be attractive for people .

        • ecatworld

          I have the ability to add phpbb to my ecatworld account. The current forum is on Vanilla. What features do you think will be needed?

          • david55

            I think phpbb have a good default settings and doesn’t need anything more to change If you have ability to add phpbb just do it, current forum is not nothing like a forum .

    • Justin Church

      We don’t know. The person which donated the forum has been MIA. Neal and I are working on launching our own forum. I guess if you want something done right you got to do it yourself.

    • Justin Church

      http://app.hydrofuel.ca/index.php New H-Cat forum owned and operated by Neal Ward and myself. We should no longer have anymore issues like this.

  • fritz194

    As one of the “lenr” flavours comes with plasma electrolysis – it seems quite legitimate to postulate “overunity electrolysis” or water-car phenomenon as somewhat “lenr” related.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    You could try to convert the heat by a thermoelectric generator and use the electricity for electrolysis:

    http://thermalforce.de/engl/product/module/index.php

    However, the effectiveness of these devices is very low. A self-sustaining system would require a high energy yield from the reaction.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Justin, maybe you should use a strong pipe with weak end-caps….perhaps with pressed in caps, rather than screwed on or welded. We don’t won’t you to “cross the creek” prematurely.

    The DuPont gunpowder mill was built with 3 strong walls and 1 thin wall facing a creek. Mr DuPont referred to death as “crossing the creek”.

  • jousterusa

    This comment strikes a really important chord for me. It suggests that this time cold fusion is really coming from the bottom up rather than the top down, which is the way of most technologies – i.e., you buy a television from Best Buy rather than go out and try to invent your own. Something coming from the bottom up has a far greater chance of surviving, I think, when the gored oxen groan about safety, etc.

  • US_Citizen71

    Justin a couple of suggestions for you. Since you have access to someone who can weld stainless steel you might consider putting a nipple on your exhaust hole so that you can attach copper tubing to it. You could then safely route the exhaust either to a beaker in an ice bath to collect the water vapor or to a flame to test whether all the gas is being used. The beaker would allow you to compare water converted by your generator to water exhausted.

    • Justin Church

      Surprising but that is a great comment and idea, I may do just that. Thanks

      • US_Citizen71

        After a little more thought you could actually do both at the same time. Use a flask instead of a beaker fill it partially with a measured quantity of water to keep the end of the tube submerged. Put the flask in an ice bath and you should then be able to condense any water vapor. Then take a second tube and insert it into the flask with the end near the top of the flask (you’ll need a two hole stopper) and take that to a flame source. That way the flask acts a flashback arrestor to prevent a flashback going back into the CC.

        • Obvious

          I suspect that catalysing the gas to liquid in a mostly sealed system will form a vacuum, which could pull more fuel gas in than anticipated, possibly resulting in a run-away condition if an excess flow shut off valve for fuel is not incorporated.

          • US_Citizen71

            Possibly, but the generator is the limiting factor. If he was running from tanks of gas there could be an issue but since the gas is generated on demand I do not think there would be much of an issue. Turning the power down or off should control the flow well enough. I think the biggest issue with the setup I described could be remembering to pull the tube out of the flask at cool down so that water doesn’t get sucked back into the CC. But that is only if the system is sealed well at the gas generator end.

            • Obvious

              I considered the possibility of water being drawn back in, but figured the gas would be easier to draw in than water.
              An excess flow valve could be a bearing loose in a swaged tube, a modified backflash (reversed?) preventer, or even a well-selected automotive PCV valve. Even a calibrated fuel gas orifice restriction could add a significant safety factor.
              A set-up where excess fuel flow pulls water into the fuel line by the Venturi effect to douse the reaction is another possibility.

  • Ophelia Rump

    A question on safety, There is a nuclear reaction going on with LENR. Are there any special requirements for containment of active radiations within the device, IE a layer of ceramic or layer of some particular metal, to absorb some particular class of radiation, or is the steel shell enough? Should Justin have the device in some kind of shielding?

    Also I think some minimal shielding between the experimenter is just a good idea. A piece of plexiglass in plywood wall sort of barrier. Suppose you did get some magnificent output and the thing just vaporized? You could have molten metal flying around.

    • Justin Church

      So far none of us have any reason to believe we are being subjected to harmful radiation emissions. One of the experimenters actually tested the theory with a meter and came up with nothing but normal background readings. Neal has one on order too. I still don’t have a meter but I have ran the system almost everyday sometimes for 6-8 hours at the time sitting right beside it and I feel fine. None of us have reported any type of sickness due to the experimentation. It seems to be completely safe but all of us are working on more radiation tests just to be sure. I hope we do not measure any type of emissions but I can say if we do it proves its a nuclear phenomena. I haven’t read much from the corporate side of this research to suggest its pumping out anything harmful which is another reason so many have suggested its not nuclear in nature. We will continue to monitor this and will definitely report back if there is need to be alarmed. A barrier is a good idea when the initial testing is taking place but we hope to contain a very mild heat effect, again I just haven’t witnessed anything in my experiments so far to suggest the system would all of a sudden go ballistic and explode or vaporize. Seems to be very safe when running at atmospheric pressures.

  • ancientukscientist

    Justin,

    If a typical Car Cat is mounted so that the pipework is vertical (rather than horizontal as would be “normal” in a Car) then I suggest you have a lot of good things happening for you…

    I notice that you propose to allow some sort of water-exit-point – but suggest the following things to consider:

    A Cat has an optimum running temperature. I suggest a good Ball-Park figure of 300 degrees C for the metal case. Making parts of the Cat Honeycomb glow white hot is almost certainly destructive – although exciting to look at!

    When you have that 300 C temperature, the water which is essentially produced by the recombination of Hydrogen / Oxygen due to the presence of Platinum Catalyst Metal, will simply escape from the top-most vent pipe of the Cat as water vapour / steam.

    The natural convective flow will produce a nice heat output for Room Heating – and the Water Vapour will humidify the room to prevent the low Relative Humidity often experienced in rooms which are artificially heated.

    Hopefully, by this simple method, the whole Cat Honeycomb will heat very evenly. Once it gets to around 300 C, it will be efficient.

    As a “hands-on” Guy like yourself, I suggest that the approach outlined above might produce a workable Room Heater with almost no further Research & Development.

    A simple ON / OFF thermostat could control the low voltage to the Water-Splitter – and be clamped onto the metal case of the Cat to control that to roughly 300 C

    I hope to see you selling this a Walmart next week!

    • Justin Church

      Excellent feedback. Thank you. This is the type of comments I love and will take the information to heart. I’d like to see something like this on a Walmart Shelf too. I’d buy it in a heart beat but sadly we have to build it from scratch.

  • Paul

    Pay attention, the Lenr researcher Andy Riley died for the explosion of a cell noy open air but under pressure: http://www.sciscoop.com/2005-3-10-18423-3423.html

    • Justin Church

      Again I will not be working with pressure or vacuum systems and I do not recommend anybody else either until we understand the reaction better. I’m also using hho at the moment and not pure Hydrogen, not smart to pressurize. Years back they developed a space cannon to send satellites into the orbit and they used hho as the propellant fuel. Its a gas that deserves respect. Safety is always on my mind

  • SiriusMan

    I would be interested if someone from the HHO research community could tell me what the difference is between HHO and the commercial ‘Magnegas’ product?

    Magnegas is a company founded by Ruggero Santilli (discussed on ECW earlier) and the company is now listed on the Nasdaq (!) exchange. Their company webpage lists many unique properties of Magnegas, including an *extremely* high burn temp:

    http://magnegas.com/mg-flame-temperature

    Santilli also claims the gas is ‘magnetic’ (thus the name)…but such a thing is impossible, according to current science knowledge (?!).

    The gas is manufactured by passing ‘liquid waste’ through an electric arc. From my reading, it kind of looks like they are making a variation on HHO. Maybe some minor amount of hydrocarbon is left in there to stabilize the gas, making it less explosive?

    In any case, it find it very interesting that such a product is now on sale commercially…

    • Andreas Moraitis

      That reminds me of Rossi’s waste recycling project from the 1990’s. The problem is that people usually don’t feel attracted when they hear the word “waste”. I suppose the company could sell their product and their shares much better if they would use a glossing-over instead.

    • jousterusa

      Spmeone who knows a little about that is former NASA Space Shuttle hydrogen specialist Ed Grimm, who runs Global Hydrogen Technologies ib Clearwater, Fla. I understand Santilli worked with Denny Klein, whose car was featured on Fox runing on HHO. You can contact Ed at hlobalhydrogentech.com. Denny passed away last year, and we dedicated the Jan 10-12 HHO games to him.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I actually think you want some pressurization to duplicate Rossi’s work.

    I would fit it with a pressure release valve something below 50 PSI. A spray can is 100 PSI so you should not be in any danger below 50 with a heavy shell, Exhaust system metals are more toward the stretchy end of the spectrum than the brittle.

    • Justin Church

      You may be right but I am not crazy either. I gotta crawl before I can run. Its not smart to start out with pressure or vacuum systems, especially when pure oxygen is involved. You must respect this gas. I’m going to be running at atmospheric pressure as long as I can. I don’t suggest anyone start this as a pressure or vacuum experiment. I got a lot of things to see and experience before I die. I have just barely dipped my toes in this water, definitely not diving in just yet. I will work with this experiment for a while and will adjust parameters accordingly. They have got results from open container on demand Lenr experiments as well. The pressurized gas reactors is an entirely different beast.

  • JDM

    Even if the hho/catalyst effect is not LENR, the rapid temperature rise may be quite useful to initiate the H/Ni LENR reaction, eh?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    It might be a good idea to have a pressure relief valve that would blow before the cylinder would.
    http://www.swagelok.com/products/valves/relief-valves.aspx

  • Owen Geiger

    Justin deserves a big thumbs up for open sourcing this. This is how to get things done. I’m sick of alternative technology development mostly being done behind closed doors. The world desperately needs this stuff. I’m learning some new stuff by going back over his videos and reading the comments. Here’s one example. A comment from Brian Mahone recommended “…use some sort of gas manifold to inject the gas to the opening of the catalyst. (Ends of the honeycomb tubes.) This way your disbursing the HHO gas over more surface area to see if it will get even hotter.”

  • Gerard McEk

    Justin should be very careful as his catalyzer may explode.

    • Justin Church

      Lets hope not…haha. I have ran enough tests for hours on end with my setup to feel confident there will be no explosion as long as I do not pressurize the system or crank up the production past a few hundred watts. My exhaust hole will be large enough to release any type of pressure anomalies that may or may not occur. The first time I run test on the design changes, I will be out of harms way just in case but so far its been smooth sailing. Some of you guys are really sketchy. I just don’t see this thing going thermonuclear in a runaway chain reaction at the moment. No guts no glory…