Homemade LENR

It’s been quite interesting lately reading and watching various comments and videos about the ‘H-Cat’ system that we’ve covered here lately. In addition to the scientific and technological discussions that are going on, there is the interesting phenomenon of people getting their hands dirty, and getting involved with building and experimenting on their own in trying to produce energy in new ways, and it makes me wonder about how ‘homemade LENR’ efforts may develop going forward.

One of the appealing things about LENR from an inventor’s perspective is that it is something that can be done on a small scale. Pons and Fleischmann’s claims were at first seen as remarkable because it was seen by many that they were claiming that fusion could be done on a desktop. Their announcement set off a great deal of interest, and despite their fall from grace after much criticism from many in the science community, their announcement sparked the imagination of a number of researchers from around the world who have continued to pursue LENR development over the years, and I believe we are seeing some of their efforts coming to fruition.

The question that occurs to me is what might happen when the reality and usefulness of LENR becomes widely recognized? My guess is that inventive and creative people the world over will realize that homemade LENR is quite a feasible proposition, and something that can be of great benefit to themselves personally and professionally. While Andrea Rossi and Industrial Heat are aiming for the big industrial marketplace, I can’t imagine that if people recognize that LENR is a real viable energy source that can be produced on small scales, that they will be satisfied waiting for large corporations to provide it to them via the existing grid if they see there’s an opportunity to create it locally.

We live in a time of a thriving ‘Maker Movement’, where technology is allowing for home-based manufacturing is becoming a reality with the convergence of computing, communications technology, robotics, 3-D printing, CNC fabricating, etc. I can see that if LENR is seen to be something that is relatively simple to develop locally, that it could well become be part of this home-based manufacturing movement.

This will surely lead to big questions being asked regarding the nature of society. If production of goods and energy is in the hands of the average person, what will that mean in terms of the nature of the state? What will be the response of government and those who seek to regulate the affairs of people for the ‘greater good’? It’s very hard to say, but I think there is a natural urge in most people for individual liberty, personal prosperity and security — and less dependence upon outside entities for the necessities of life. And we could be moving into an age where technology makes that increasingly possible.

Energy is one area where most of us are dependent upon outside forces, and at significant cost. If smart and creative people see that there is even a chance to become more energy independent through developing LENR methods, I think they will pursue it with tenacity and vigor, and I think one way or another the secrets of LENR will be discovered. Once they are discovered and shared, in our day of instant communication it will be very hard to stop them — and this could have a transformative effect on the whole world.

  • bachcole

    John, that’s cute. We are still at the stage of trying to determine if that is even possible.

    BUT, the E-Cat started out as an homemade LENR, so it is possible that you or someone else will discover a way to do it. Justin Church thinks that he has done it, but most of the rest of us would like better measurements. I was all excited about Justin’s achievement until someone pointed out that the catalyzer could be made to feel hot with a simple 60 watt bulb. Heat measurement (even by hand) is not energy measurement, and it is energy measurement that counts. So we await Justin’s progress.

    That should not stop you from trying.

  • Obvious

    Here’s a fun idea.
    “Silver” 1/3 to 1/2 of each end of the catalyst, to provide electrical connections.
    Soak the silvered portion of the catalyst in a lithium brine, then dry.
    The water/steam created by gas recombination in the un-brined portion will mix with the dry lithium salt, creating an electrolyte.
    Run a current through the electrical contact portion.
    Record results.

  • Argon

    Interesting experiments, Thank you Justin for sharing your progress with us. I think best way is you to continue according your own plans, even observing others comments. Having said that, at some point it would be good for you to get some reference point giving you chance to measure your progress, and after which modifications OU got passed. Maybe not just yet start calorimetry as you said.
    Putting that aside and preparing for maybe coming steps, my nose says that HHO+Platiniu/Palladium doesn’t exeed OU alone and if so, you should not quit trying. Maybe in that case some modifications may be needed.
    My list to try at some point is:
    1) Pressure (more risky tests i agree)
    2) Electromagnetic radiation (2.8…2.9Ghz) (A’la Rossi?). Needs some new equipment.
    3) Treatment of reacting metal in to more porous form or powder(A’la Rossi)
    and so on.
    Below was also proposed stripping of electrons, would be worth hear more on that theory.
    Hope readers keep ideas coming and some of us even builds own modifications.

    • Obvious

      Unless the catalyst is electrically conductive, I’m not sure how one would get the electrons to shuffle along and out of the cat. Either fluctuating (moving wave-like) magnetic fields (think mag lev control) or electric current are probably best, but consume power. Maybe rotating magnets powered by heat convection or steam generation? But still needs conductor…
      O2 sensors generate a very small current by catalytic action, but have much higher Pt concentrations than a catalytic convertor.
      That is probably why hydrogenation catalysts were used for some early LENR type experiments. They typically have near percent level Pt contents.

    • Obvious

      2.9 GHz electromagnetic radiation could be monitored by static on a cordless phone tuned to that range.

  • Justin Church

    Sodium Hydroxide can be found in some Home Improvement stores sold as Drain Cleaner make sure its 100 percent Lye or NaOH. Essential Depot online also have built a reputable business offering food and lab grade products like this at very great prices. Just Google them

  • Charlie Tapp

    Junk science my ass who cares about the numbers this is a new effect that is for sure going to take things in a different direction. I used to think everything on YouTube was a fake but you know what every damn thing I have copied has worked everything period get off your calculator and build something you might be able to help! We all know perpetual motion (as this term eventually will come back around ) just like cold fusion is starting to, has not worked yet but who knows it might. Put a half full cup of water on top of your water jug in the kitchen (red solo my favorite) condensation will build up under it inside of the jug and if there was a paddle wheel in there it would drip on it and turn . Why I don’t know but for some reason those h2o molecules are attracted like a magnet to the bottom of that cup on the outside and when there is enough it will drip back down, Now Mabee someone will read that and make or explain it to me. Kelvins thunderstorm type stuff I guess be cool to get some power out of it though wouldn’t it. Not junk science better science than my son learns in high school

    • HiggsField

      “Junk science my ass who cares about the numbers” that’s a totally moronic statement. Its junk science when there is no method. Catalytic heaters have been around for a very long time. If you are going to claim OU then you need to show the input and output energies case closed.woopyjump is the only experimenter that seems to follow anything like a scientific method, I would encourage Justin to follow suite.

      “Put a half full cup of water on top of your water jug in the kitchen (red solo my favorite) condensation will build up under it inside of the jug and if there was a paddle wheel in there it would drip on it and turn”. You clearly lack any scintilla of science knowledge. If such an arrangement does work then its a heat engineer where the energy is coming from outside the system.

  • Justin Church

    We have talked about this but honestly none of us have one available to try it with. I would have to go out and buy one but we did feel like hho would destroy one of the little coleman catalytic heaters. Pure Hydrogen would probably work fine. I’m moving forward with the Catalytic Converter because its built for high temps and probably has a lot more of the Platinum / Palladium metals than the small off the shelf heaters. It also seems to resemble what Rossi started out with in the early days. If you know of anyone willing to test the idea let me know. None of us have tried it yet but we are all interested in seeing if it will work.

  • Charlie Tapp

    Got my cell working LastNight scored a good cat used propane torch on it to clean. I’ll be damned it worked!!! Mine will only work on input side of cat make sure you mark it when cutting exess pipe off, it will save some frustration. Now I can’t get to v bulletin to tell everyone. Had some fussing problems with my power supply to small but made it work good enough to keep playing with it very cool! Watch out for auto ignite I was to exited to build a good one and tried a flash arrest or off of a torch set no good blew the top off my bubbler a couple times good thing it was not glued. Going to try it with my gasifier tommorow

    • david55

      Congratulation and thank you for reporting.

    • Justin Church

      Awesome! This is all we wanted to do. Spread the word so others can replicate the effect. When you first see that bright glow of heat without a flame its exciting isn’t it? Keep experimenting

  • Charlie tapp

    Justin can’t get on to v bulletin did they shut you down

    • Justin Church

      Yeah we don’t know what happened, working to launch another forum as we speak. The forum was donated to us and since its launch we have never been able to make contact with the guy that set it up. Ohh well, all is not lost..

    • Justin Church

      http://app.hydrofuel.ca/index.php New H-Cat forum which is owned and operated by Neal Ward and myself

  • Owen Geiger

    That’s true in western countries, but things are much different in developing countries. I can get almost anything I want made from scratch for a few bucks. Same with hiring skilled workers such as draftsmen and electricians. It would be fairly easy to set up a small shop for a few thousand dollars if you had the know-how. Money is not the problem. It’s knowing how to build the reactors. I suspect Justin’s HHO process is just one piece of the puzzle. An efficient heater would likely need to be pressurized, fitted with controls, etc. along the lines of what Rossi and others are doing.

    • Owen Geiger

      Rough numbers: figure 1/10 the cost in developing countries. Exact costs will obviously vary from place to place.

    • humblemechanic

      You lucky, lucky, lucky “dilettante”. That’s the impression I got from your post anyway.
      Last summer there was so much silly talk here on this site about 3D printers producing
      marvellous machine parts, even replicating themselves that I laughed out loud and long.
      I don’t know how far you have progressed on the scale from “dilettante to maestro” in the
      skills you have mentioned but there are pitfalls even for experts. Machinery development
      is a painful business at the best of times: I have witnessed a few disputes that resulted from
      imprecise communications and interpretations of drawings. My advice is: do not skip the
      tedious detail at any stage, being a stickler for detail pays in the long run and try to get the
      one expert with all the expertise you have mentioned you will need; it will avert the situation
      of them blaming each other if a “discrepancy” manifests itself. I have seen a few expensive
      prototypes so wonky that you could not determine whether device or the idea behind it that
      is unworkable. Best of luck with your venture; I hope you beat Rossi to it. I have no faith in
      the “Old Maestro of Obfuscation, and don’t remember him ever uttering a precise sentence
      let alone definite statement. It was said he does it to confuse competitors. Humbug!
      BTW, those skills you need to obtain are practised by most fitter- mechanics (humble or
      otherwise, haha) and I know much more advanced ones but none humbler than I am.

      • Owen Geiger

        That’s another good point. The lowest cost workers may (very well) be incompetent. Depends on what you want done. Routine tasks — no problems. Pay more for anything complicated. Costs are so low from India to China that skilled workers are still a bargain and can be found with reasonable effort. But again, you have to have the know how to put it all together and make things work. The workers are like extensions of your arms. You’re the brain and eyes.

        I have nothing definitively planned. I’m just researching, taking notes and thinking things over. Will probably end up in India for various reasons — mild climate, English, eager workers,fairly good skilled work force. Vietnam is another decent option. Anyone serious about seeing affordable LENR in their lifetime might want to think along these lines.

  • bluejmc

    I agree. Will someone please hook up some browns gas to a catalytic heater? I might have to build another unit just to try it myself. Our energy bill up here in alaska is really high, it’s hard paying all the bills.

  • Obvious

    The key to turning an H-cat into some sort of LENR is stripping the electrons from the H so that protons are stuffed into the catalyst.

  • Justin Church

    You sir are yet another “Backseat” driver. If you made Hydrogen before and “blew yourself up” then you obviously didn’t know what you were doing and decided to put the chemistry lab back in the box because you pooped your panties hahaha. What is it with you people? Find me a on demand hho or hydrogen catalytic heater that you can buy or that was used to gain experimental data. Which is what I’m trying to build, I do not care about the “calorimetry” at this point in time. The experiment is simple enough, why don’t you drag out your lame chemistry lab, make some hydrogen and test it for yourself? I got to hold your hand to do that? Find me any recent experimentation and data on this process.

    This is not “junk science” you ignoramus. Your telling me there is no Deuterium Oxide Lenr experiments going on with Palladium as the catalyst metal? Get an education before posting your foul conclusions. Your one of those number lovers. I’m a nuts and bolts kind of guy. I don’t care about your proposed numbers because I have yet to find proof of the hardware built and tested to validate the numbers.

    You think I’m only able to focus the gas on one part of the ceramic substrate. There is a thing called gas diffusion which will layer the gas over the entire substrate and I’m working to finalize that design. Poof be gone Mr. BackSeat Driver that couldn’t even tame the production of Hydrogen…

    • HiggsField

      You need to follow the scientific method and not make wild claims. Do the calorimetry and post your results on youtube. I’ll give you another analogy. Stick 25V across a 1 ohms resistor, and tell me that you do not badly burn yourself, it will likely glow bright red. Again power density.Oh I was 9 years old when I blew myself up.

      If you are genuinely interested in doing the calorimtry I’ll post a reply detailing how I, as an engineer, would go about doing it, at least to get a first order read on the efficiency of the system you have built. You could build a simple setup for very little money and get some meaningful results in about 3-4 hours.

      • Justin Church

        Appreciate the information. I have already been given numerous calorimetry steps to complete and I am listening, however, I am waiting on some parts to provide more solid numbers with the cat I have. Believe me, you will see some efficiency numbers from me very soon but I’m not your puppet. I’m doing this my way. If you would like to take me to school by all means lead the way but do not come back with suggestions in the form of text. Do a video showcasing how it should be done. I’d really appreciate it and everyone else would too. Text is cheap, show your face on camera and show me up. I encourage criticism but have some respect and do it without typing on a keyboard. Thank you sir…

        • HiggsField

          Here is a I think a quick and simple way to do a test.

          1. Build yourself an insulated box using 2″ foam insulation from say lowe’s Duck tape seal the seams. Make sure the lid fits well, may want to tape lid seems during the experimental run to avoid convection losses.

          2. Place a resistive heating element (this will give you 100% energy transfer) inside the box and put the same amount of power into it as you are putting into your hydrogen generator. Switch on the power for a set period of time say 5 min. Measure the rise in temp inside the closed insulated box. That’s your reference.Oh measure the ambient temp inside the box before your switch on the power. You want the ambient temp reading to be stable before you start.

          3. When done remove and put your catalytic setup inside the box. Make sure the box temp is back down to ambient temp. The hydrogen generator is outside the box. Close the box and power her up. After the same set time period measure the temperature.

          4. If you have OU then the temp inside the box will be greater than the reference.

          Best of luck. I’m ready to eat my hat, shoe or what ever!

          • Justin Church

            Thanks for the information but its yet another version of the same test. Its just really hard for me to believe that is all it takes to make this a case closed experiment for some of the skeptics and people within the comment section. I figured with as easy as this seems to be someone would have done it by now but I guess everyone is waiting on me or Neal to get it done before they jump on the bandwagon. Fine by me but I’m in no rush until I can get the cat situated and firing on all cylinders. Right now the gas is being injected into it in a very crude manner and only half of the cat is being utilized. I don’t want there to be any question at all when it comes to efficiency so I’m not willing to run this test until I know I have done all I could to encapsulate the reaction to reduce losses which could obscure the outcome of the test. This simple test will get done but I’m not attempting it until I can honestly say I gave it my best shot. Based on what I’m seeing so far, the results are going to be very interesting but all you guys are just going to have to wait or run the tests yourself. Maybe if the Amazon Drone was a reality, I’d have the parts by now so I can put this to bed. I don’t want you to eat any article of clothing lol just stay as positive as I’m trying to be and if I’m taking too long, I’m more than happy to have one of you guys take the lead and blow holes all in the experiment by proving there is nothing to it, so far I’ve received many suggestions and skeptic remarks but nobody willing to show me how its done on film. I’d even get on camera and admit I’m not worthy as an experimenter or engineer lol. I’ll get to it bro, just going to be another week or two before I Git R Done…

  • Curbina

    Well, I have seen more over the same analysis posted in other parts of the internet regarding what Justin is claiming, but I think you don’t adress the issue that what Justin is looking at might be plain old HHO–>H2O catalization. That’s why I think it’s important to feed pure Hydrogen to the catalizator in order to see if the effect is really in the side of LENR. That said, the box calorimetry could also give an indication of the efficiency. There is still around much doubts about HHO being a possible source of overunity. I know this is “impossible”, but then I have seen much impossible things happen during my life, and I regard experiments as the ultimate test of truth rather than theories and “laws” of physics.

    • Justin Church

      As I said in the other post. If pure Hydrogen is of importance to you, then show me how its done…I’m not here as a puppet engineer for you guys where you tell me to do one thing, I do it then someone else tells me to do something else, I do it, so on and so forth, You people in the comment section have to get off your butts and do the stuff yourself.

  • david55

    He is planing exactly what you suggest for estimating overall efficiency but it will take time to setup in next two or three weak i hope we hear about result and your tone is offending.

  • Daniel Maris

    Interesting. Will also be interesting to see Justin’s reply if he gives one.

  • kuddels

    Let’s just rename it “Low Energy Elemental Conversion” (LEEC). That is what GE and other companies did to make NMR imaging palatable to the general public. I used to do basic chemistry research using nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR). When a means was developed of using this physical method for medical imaging, the corporate folks rechristened it “magnetic resonance imaging” (MRI).

  • Justin Church

    Hey guys, I didn’t notice this page until last night but I wanted to give an update. I’ve got some stainless caps and threaded bushings on order. Only 20 bucks hahaha. When I get them in I will do a video on what I plan to do. Essentially I’m sealing the ends of the cat so I can inject pure gas into it. A friend of mine can weld stainless so he has offered to get the bushings mounted to the cat for me. Going to be awesome…

    • artefact

      Thanks for the update.
      Is it not possible to use the hho torch for stainless steel?

      • Justin Church

        Sort of, about the best I can do with my equipment is braze or silver solder bits of stainless. These are heavy duty stainless parts and my torch wouldn’t work well for it, Tig welding the parts on will yield the best result. My welding skills is terrible but in the South, people know how to do two things very well, hunt and weld lmao…

    • bachcole

      Looking forward. (:->) I have exactly zero space, knowledge, money, or mobility to do that sort of thing. I hope that other people will try. Remember, ya’ll, Rossi started out just like Justin.

    • Curbina

      Justin, I’ve been reading a lot of this and I think that the argument about the effect being a catalitic reconstitution of HHO to H2O woudl be solved with a filter tho obtain pure H from the electrolizer. Is this test easy or not to do? Regards!!!

  • david55

    HHO experiment update

    Mixer of air and HHO to avoid the flashback

  • david55

    According to randell mills paper only radiation in HHO reaction with catalyst is “Soft X-rays”
    (euv radiation).that partly is harmless, Hard x-rays can penetrate skin and soft x–rays can hardly
    penetrate your skin “Soft X-rays have energies in the 0.09 to 2.5 keV range, whereas
    hard X-rays are in the 1-20 keV range”


  • Barry8

    Who has time for hockey?

  • US_Citizen71

    While doing some web surfing I came across an historical document that might be of interest to those wishing to do duplicate the electrolysis and catalytic converter experiment that I have been so skeptical of. It is a 60 year old declassified report from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory on the use of catalytic recombiners used to recombine H2 O2 and D2 O2 produced by an Aqueous Homogeneous Reactor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueous_homogeneous_reactor ). It discusses problems they had with flashbacks, the effects of pressure on the catalytic platinized alumina recombiners and offers a look into the early days of nuclear power research.


  • jousterusa

    As founder of the HHO Games & Exposition, I find your safety concerns overstated. The only “accident” I’ve seen in the course of 10 events is a cap blowing off an HHO kit built by Zero Fossil Fuels, a man who was central to the development of HHO technology. No harm was done except to the kit. But you’re not supposed to compress HHO but use it as it is created, i.e., on demand. Go to HODINFO for tons of stuff on these issues. As for your oxygen, just add a separator or use ammonia as your electrolyte, as all the oxygen will bind with nitrogen. However, to avoid corrosion by the ammonia you need titanium plates, which cost a couple of hundred bucks each. Our last show was Jan. 10-12 at the Museum of Science & Industry in Tampa, and they expressly authorized us to explode stuff right outside the museum.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Cal/OSHA fined three companies doing business at 12349 Gladstone Ave., where an Aug. 9 hydrogen fuel explosion blew the roof off the rented building, the state worker safety agency reported Thursday.

      Both Timothy B. Larson, then a 42-year-old Los Angeles firefighter on medical leave while working at his family firm, and 66-year-old consultant William Stehl, lost limbs.
      A 2010 blast in Simi Valley had killed one of the owners’ sons.
      The thunderous detonation occurred at 4:20 p.m. Aug. 9, nearly leveling the 7,400- square-foot single-story building and blowing out doors and windows in nearby offices and cars.
      Realm Catalyst was owned by Timothy A. Larson, a lawyer based in Mission Hills, and father of Timothy B. Larson who lost an arm and a leg in the explosion last summer.

      Cal/OSHA cited the company for killing his younger son, 28-year-old Tyson Larson, in a similar blast on June 17, 2010, at its now-shuttered Simi Valley plant.
      Known as Brown’s gas – and dubbed “boom gas” by its German inventors – it electrolyzes water into oxygen and hydrogen and can combine the two with fatal results.

      • Justin Church

        Very few cases like this exist. I can offer ten reports for deaths, explosions, and damages caused by malpractice use of gasoline, diesel, propane, natural gas ect for every one report you can find on Hydrogen related incidents. Most if not all of these tragedies happened out of stupidity and human error which is going to happen with anything not just hydrogen or “boom gas” lol. I don’t know the details of the system but I’m sure adequate pressure relief systems were not setup correctly and the person probably had no business playing in the arena he was in.

        • Steve H

          Apologies for not clarifying that the comment was intended for people new to HHO. I have the deepest respect for people like yourself and JousterUSA who have been working in this field for many years and should be considered experts in real – life science.
          My bad – I should have made that clear in the original comment.

    • Steve H

      Comments noted. Many thanks.

    • Justin Church

      I completely agree. People are so quick to say DANGER! DANGER! DANGER! When they hear the word Hydrogen or HHO gas. Most of the hho systems are very low power and do not produce enough gas on demand to cause much damage. As long as you are not incorporating glass into the system and you have adequate safety equipment like a simple bubbler and flashback arrestor, there is almost zero chance of an issue. I’ve had mishaps before but it was because of my own stupidity and nothing more. I really don’t understand the people that say high pressure hho will auto ignite as well. That is not true. Nasa has high pressure electrolysis cells they use to build up and maintain high psi to send to palladium fuel jets for propulsion systems. A lot of people are ill-informed about this technology and are just spewing out information they read or heard from somewhere else. Most of these people have never even touched a system so I really don’t understand how they can draw any type of conclusions. But I digress, know it all’s and haven’t done anything at all’s are going to exist. What can you do?

  • bitplayer

    The HHO experiments look a lot like catalyst assisted H-O recombination (david55’s YouTube link below). Lots of heat, but not LENR. Given the clear difficulty of achieving LENR, it could require some fairly high grade, fine tuned engineering to make it work, and so be out of reach of the garage tinkerer. It that’s the case, then maybe the frontier starts with NANOR-like devices, suitably amplified, miniaturized and commodified, and sold at RadioShack et al, which then become building blocks for the makers.

    • david55

      whole point of my link was to show difference between to reaction in HHO you have plasma with high energetic photon (euv radiation) but in H2 reaction just some heat effect .

    • Justin Church

      I disagree but thanks for your insight. I don’t think “LENR” is difficult to achieve. It seems to be happening in certain batteries and even catalytic converters quite easily. Any and all of this technology can be built with junk yard parts, fine tuning may be another story but don’t think we cannot at least crudely replicate what the corporate boys are doing using junk…

      • Curbina

        Justin, to discard the recombination idea, could you feed pure hydrogen to the catalyzator? That would end the debate quickly, IMHO.

        • Justin Church

          Its no debate for me. I’m doing what I want to do with the technology and thats build a HHO ON DEMAND CATALYTIC HEATER. I am not getting involved in the nit picking suggestions of the public. I have a split cell I could very well push Hydrogen into it and see what happens but I refuse to do it. HHO cells are easier to build than Hydrogen Split Cells so that is why I’m trying to tame the reaction with hho. I don’t care if its “recombination” or not, its a really awesome way to heat and the fact that I cannot find one heater on the market or ever built tells me there is more to it than meets the eye. My intro video and several online threads has a question mark at the end of the title indicating, I do not know if this is LENR. I “think” it is but I truly do not know. I have given you guys every bit of information needed to replicate this effect and to prove or disprove any statements I made. Why isn’t anyone doing it instead of hashing it out and arguing in the comments section. Get out from in front of your computer and school me…Please…

          • Curbina

            Thanks for your answer Justin. I applaud your hands on approach. Will be following your experiments. No time on my side to get hands on, so following you is as much as I can do for the time being. I really think we know too few about HHO to say anything, and that’s why you effort is so important.

            • Justin Church

              Thank you for that wonderful response.

  • Buck

    IMHO, this would be a perfect project for MFMP . . . as I recollect, their focus is upon ensuring that LENR is available for all.

    If they are able to develop and test a safe LENR device and then publish on the WWW the defined required off-the-shelf parts, construction diagrams, and operating guidelines, they will have achieved a major milestone that fits their mission.

    I can easily imagine this will take some time to develop because of issues surrounding safety and making it consumer-proof. This is not a quick slam-dunk project but the value to the 3rd world would be very hard to assess.

  • Warthog

    Which, if you listen to the videotapes from the latest MIT LENR short course, you will see is precisely what Mitchell Schwartz is doing with his “Nanor” series. But there are MANY other possibilities for substrates other than palladium and nickel. Intermetallic alloys like cupronickel and iron-titanium. Other elements like titanium and tungsten. Pretty much ANY material that can sorb large amounts of hydrogen/deuterium as free protons/deuterons is a possibility as substrate. It will take many years of research to narrow things down to “the best” substrate. It may even turn out to be a specially constructed nanomaterial.

    If I were to pursue a material, it would be tungsten. There is evidence from the work of Irving Langmuir (Nobel laureate in chemistry) of “excess heat” in tungsten/hydrogen systems. He discussed this in letters to Niels Bohr, and Bohr told him that “it was impossible”, so he dropped investigating it. Tungstens HIGH melting point should mean devices capable of working at much higher temps than either nickel or palladium.

  • Owen Geiger

    Building amateur LENR reactors may be more feasible than some might think. You don’t have to know how to do everything yourself. You can have parts made in a machine shop, hire a welder, electrician, etc. — whatever you can’t do yourself. There are countless parts available through industrial supply catalogs. Now is a good time to start learning about LENR because it’s only a matter of time before someone leaks the few remaining details. I recommend getting a shop that’s well away from other structures and won’t easily burn down.

  • jousterusa

    I”m not one of those who can put a disassembled carburetor back together, and that’s probably a minimum level of competence required to build an E-Cat or hydrino reactor once we know what the secret catalysts are. However, my own mechanical failings aside, just as I try to compete with Shakespeare in writing sonnets, I’m sure highly inventive people like those who visit this page will be doing exactly what you suggest – developing power sources of their own with or without validators and working theories. I had not thought of that possibility but it is a real one.

  • kasom

    the story seams so easy to replicate, just buy a small car cat and let hoh flow tru. meassure the power in to the hoh generator and the heat coming out of the cat. MFPM hasn’t done it up to now. how much funding do they expect for this simple experiment?

    • Daniel Maris

      Good point. Surely it is part of MFPM’s brief to either confirm or eliminate such examples of LENR. And this would be a dirt cheap experiment.

  • Donk970

    “What will be the response of government and those who seek to regulate the affairs of people for the ‘greater good’?” isn’t the right question. The question is what will the wealthy and corporations do to maintain the status quo? These guys act through their influence on government but the real power remains in the hands of the big corporations who want to maintain their position at the top of the pile. LENR threatens to upset the whole applecart for the wealthy so expect to see a lot of legislation to put the brakes on LENR development.

    • Fortyniner

      Agreed – inevitable. In the event that someone like Mr Church published a ‘how to’ for a simple, definitely O/U device that could be replicated by anyone with a workshop, there is likely to be a quick reaction.

      In the case of LENR, probably a blanket ban by declaring the process to be ‘nuclear’ (not too difficult given what the very poorly chosen acronym stands for) and so subject to existing legislation relating to fissionables etc. This would automatically place the technology under the control of existing energy corps and/or the military, with the monopoly being monitored and enforced by state apparatus at no expense to the monopoly holders.

      For other technologies that are not so easy to reclassify (plasma reactors, ‘HHO’ and similar) it would still be possible to manufacture specious safety concerns such as potential use by terrorists, and ban any experimentation. Any whiff of synthetic danger put about by the media and the sheeple would be actively demanding such restrictions.

      • georgehants

        Peter, you are being negative again, Ha.
        Mr. Cameron is chairing a meeting of Cobra today, using the flooded Somerset levels (where they build houses below the water line and are surprised when they flood) as a cover for his plan to put millions into Cold Fusion and allow it’s free distribution to the community.
        He really is a nice guy who is just winding you up by saying he is going to build a nuclear power station just down the road.
        We must all trust our politicians etc. to do the right thing, poor things are so misunderstood.

        • Fortyniner

          My turn to say ‘Ha’, George.

          I drove over to take a few photos of the flooded ‘levels’ a couple of days ago – it’s a pretty spectacular sight at the moment. Allowing building in such places is literally m0ronic, yet these are the same people who will prevent homeowners building a conservatory or converting their attics if the whim takes them.

  • Ophelia Rump

    My suggestion is that if anyone wishes to do fusion experiments at home, then they should become acquainted with the literature on this following subject.

    It should be no surprise to anyone that fusion is possible at room temperature, and is as simple a chemical process as photosynthesis.

    Some form of fusion is done by every plant on earth. Without it we would not be here.

    A simple logic proof using facts you already know.

    Arsenic is an element.
    If you allow picked potatoes to turn green under the sun, they contain arsenic.

    Where did the Elemental Arsenic come from?
    There can be only one answer, transmutation.

    This is a fairly well known, historically career ending subject.
    The internet has many interesting references.
    Transmutation has been documented in plants, fish, and bacteria.
    I dare say if a student brought this up in academia, they would find them self explaining their biology report to a philosophy professor.

    I wonder if anyone has cross researched the two phenomena, I wager there would be easy to implement semi organic experiments waiting.

    • Obvious

      Potatoes that have turned green from exposure to sunlight is from chlorophyll. The poison is solanine produced at the same time (probably a defence mechanism), not arsenic.

  • nightcreature3

    Actually I see no reason to have any oxygen at all present in the reaction. All suspicion of overunity based on the Langmuir Torch was related to the transitions between atomic and molecular hydrogen only. So if electrolysis is used, the hydrogen should be captured separately.

    Justin Church could well be witnessing flameless hydrogen-oxygen recombination enabled by the catalyzer.

    • david55

      H-CAT (HHO)

      Flameless Reaction of Hydrogen and Oxygen forming water catalyzed by platinum metal (H2)

    • Steve H

      Excellent; if that is the case, then we just need to split the oxygen and hydrogen at the HHO cell, discard the oxygen to a safe vent and use the hydrogen. Determining the hydrogen purity without an analyser is the only wrinkle.

      • Justin Church

        If I see that hho cannot be tamed in this reaction I will break out my split cell and run some tests with Hydrogen which will probably be around 95 percent pure out of the cell, I’d have to run it through an purification cat first to obtain pure Hydrogen out. I know some of the LENR work does not involve the use of Oxygen but I also know some of the experiments use Hydrogen and Oxygen or isotopes of them. We have decided to move forward with HHO gas because the cells are very easy to build. Hydrogen split cells are a bit more complex and expensive to replicate. I’m hoping some of the interested followers can run with the pure Hydrogen tests as well. I will eventually get there but I try to work on one thing at the time.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    A couple of years ago there was a post on another site where an alleged experimenter claimed he took 2 coin-sized nickel discs, put a dimple in one, and in a vacuum glove-box filled the dimple with some kind of metal hydride powder, welded the perimeter of the discs, placed the disc in a vessel of water and heated the vessel to boiling. He claimed that when he removed the vessel from the heat, it continued to boil…..for weeks, with him continuously having to add water. The experiment sounded so simple and spectacular that I would have though that some one would have tried to replicate it by now. I would have tried it but I don’t have access to a vacuum box.

  • clovis ray

    Right on, frank once again your right on the mark, and it’s my hope that it all can be accomplished without much trouble, because human kind just don’t take to change all that well, and they are afraid of what they don’t understand.
    but you know, it would seem, that things seems a take root better, when they take us by surprise, and don’t give us time to second guess the change, what ever it may be, and as you say we can accept it better if we think that change will benefit us, in some way..

  • Karl

    Interesting points, Frank. In the view of Snowden revelations we see that we can’t always put our trust to the political system, nor the multinationals which may have about too much of saying, especially the two working together over most peoples head. I am quite sure that it will be a battle but when the genie is out of the bottle it will not be possible to stop. Of course there is no reason to back off from a solution that will offer so many new positive possibilities for everyone.