Looking at the ‘H-Cat’ Experiment with HHO Gas and a Catalytic Converter

Thanks to david55 for bringing attention to a comment from a person named Justin Church who runs a website called jdcproducts.com and who is running experiments injecting HHO gas (Oxyhydrogen, a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen) into a catalytic converter which he reports producing a substantial amount of heat and which he believes is is producing more energy than is input. I thought I would make a new thread for discussing this, since there seems to have been some interest. Below is a video of one experiment he has conducted.

Justin comments about this video:

I got the exterior of this cat up to 400 degrees off 50 watts of power so yeah I’m claiming over-unity. And that was in a very crude form. I could have got the thing much much hotter given some more time and engineering.

Below is a comment from Justin that he posted in another thread about his work.

“I was looking for updates to the BLP demonstration and was pleasantly surprised to see you guys chattering about our work with catalytic combustion of hho aka oxyhydrogen gas. You seem to have a pretty good grasp on the process.

“Yes we are sending raw hho, no flame into a standard catalytic converter of a car and seem to be obtaining a
substantial amount of heat. A lot more heat than using an hho flame pointed at a piece of metal. We have found many similarities in this process and the so called “E-Cat” device.

“The heat effect works on the same principle. If you study cold fusion or LENR you will understand they are loading hydrogen into a catalyst metal structure inside the core of a reactor and obtaining an excess heat effect as the hydrogen fuses into the metal lattice to release helium or fuse with the atomic structure of the metal to trans mutate it to another, in Rossi’s case, Nickel is claimed to transmutate to Copper which releases the excess thermal energy. Blacklight Power also use HHO plasma in their reactor and the plasma bursts create electrical energy instead of heat. It is very possible people like Andrea Rossi used a catalytic converter in the beginning stages of the research to get to the point he is now. I am working on sealing up and insulating the cat over the course of the next week or two to get some baseline numbers for everyone.

“For the most part people have been very positive and excited but we are seeing a lot of “We Want Measurements” from the community as well. Most of these people are what I call the “Peanut Gallery” and have never built anything their-self. They don’t care about the engineering of the deviceand the usefulness of it unless they are spoon fed numbers. It is a very simple process to test out. Buy or build a small hho generator, inject gas into a catalytic converter, watch it heat up.

“The information has been out for almost a month now and there have been only about 3 or 4 of us that have actually experimented with it. We are looking for others to join in, we can not do it alone. I am working just as hard as
I can to get the cat ready to go up against a standard resistive heater of the same wattage but I have to finalize the design. If we get it right, we can easily build a highly efficent forced air heater or boiler using off the shelf parts. We don’t have to wait for Rossi or others in the Cold Fusion arena to put the technology on the market.

“Garage Engineers are much better at taking the technology and putting it to use than some of the Corporate boys that haven’t made it out of the lab yet and their reactors are sitting in the corner with more probes on it than a hospital patient. We want to make sure everyone around the globe has the opportunity to explore the same phenomena that most of us can only read about.”

I put this out there for information and discussion. More information can be found at the JDCProducts Youtube Channel at http://www.youtube.com/user/jdcproducts?feature=watch

  • Obvious

    A very long time ago I hooked a non-current-regulated (home made) tesla coil to opposite ends of a stacked, insulated series of stainless steel bowls with equal spacing (about 3/4 of an inch apart). After a minute or so, finally an arc would jump the gap between one of the bowls, followed by an increasing cascade of arcs between and around all layers of the bowls, a rich violet glow discharge, and the activation of the house alarm (LED indicator displays going nuts on all panels). The TV set and radio went static, and TV reception as far as two houses over failed. Then a pencil nearby rotated itself, enabling it to pass a 6 inch arc from the device, through the pencil, to a metal chair frame and then to me, nearly knocking me out and (luckily) straightening my legs so fast I was forced away from the device and out of the arc. Between the purple glow and serious shock, I was scared enough to put the thing away for ever.

  • Gareheart

    Good idea Pron I never thought of that, and I have several dead old hard drives.

  • Charlie tapp

    @justin church very cool stuff I like your build it for my self mentality. Just finished a gasified that works very good ran a 4cylynder onan 15000 watt genet very we’ll. gasifiers make h and co wonder what would ,let’s change that to is going to happen putting this gas mode with fresh air into the cat any thoughts on that can’t find anything on the web about it other than cat heater inlin with stove pipes. I think these things are working in a similar manner to yours.

  • david55

    Randell mills new paper about soft x-ray continuum radiation from hho catalysts

    http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/papers/ContHOH.pdf

  • david55

    Guys first priority must be safety we don’t know what exactly is
    happening in this process and there is high probability that you
    put
    yourself in danger by exposing to unknown radiation in this experiment
    so a Geiger counters is first thing that you must have http://www.gammascout.com/

    • Paul

      For gamma you can use a metal plate for shielding, a few mm thick is enough. If you want be more sure, you can operate remotely (a few meters are enough for wipe out 9/10 eventual radiations or other side products) following the experiment with a webcam. If you want shield slow neutrons, make a wall of 2-liter plastc bottles fulled with water and boric acid (easily to buy also in 10 kg quantities) until saturation.

  • Paul

    Two years ago, related to “Hydrogen strangeness”, I found very interesting – and now much more – a couple of papers by Mizuno, notable expert of Lenr in Japan.
    A summary: “Pyrolysis occurs when the temperature exceeds 4000°C. Thus plasma electrolysis may be a better alternative, it is not only easier to achieve than direct heating, but also appears to produce more hydrogen than ordinary electrolysis, as predicted by Faraday’s laws, which is indirect evidence that it produces very high temperatures. [..] We have observed as much as 80 times more hydrogen generated by plasma electrolysis than by conventional electrolysis at 300 V. [..]The measured heat exceeded the input power substantially, and in some cases 200% of the input power. The heat generation process depended on the conditions for electrolysis. There was no excess heat at the beginning of plasma electrolysis. However, after plasma electrolysis for a long time, a large amount of heat was generated. The reproducibility would be 100% if all factors such as temperature, voltage and duration were optimized. Based on the heat and the products, we hypothesize that some unique reaction occurs on the cathode surface. This reaction may not occur at energy levels available during electrochemical electrolysis.”
    Mizuno papers here cited: (1) Hydrogen Evolution by Plasma Electrolysis in Aqueous Solution; (2) Production of Heat during Plasma Electrolysis in Liquid.

    • Fortyniner

      Interesting, and probably relevant to Mills’ device. On a slightly less scientific basis, it is also claimed that certain electrical frequencies can allow water electrolysis at lower energies than Faraday’s laws would predict.

      http://www.rivendellvillage.org/Stanley_Meyer_Resonant_Electrolysis_Cell.pdf

      Another of Meyer’s devices (‘water fuel cell’) has many similarities with Mill’s explosive decomposition of water to plasma.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Here is a description of a welder that works with HHO gas. The inventor claims that the device saves 85% of energy costs:

    http://www.rolf-keppler.de/ses.htm

    • Andreas Moraitis

      That does not mean that his device reaches overunity, since the prices for energy must not be confused with the amounts of energy. Nevertheless, that device could be economically favourable.

  • Mr. Moho

    Here’s a video (one of a series) of a french person replicating the experiment on a smaller scale and showing that the flame of the burning oxyhydrogen mixture heats the substrate much less than just the gas flow alone. Any chemist here who can tell whether this is to be expected or not?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGspqCrkf1E

    • Paul

      Thank you! Really amazing and better than 1000 words…

    • Paul

      It is possible to test for an amateur scientist, it does not requires a chemist. Indeed, if you can sustain the big white spot (the second in the video) for a very long time (hours or more) it means the heat given with the flame is only a very small part of the input energy and so negligible. If you run the experiment for h24 or more it is SURELY negligible,

  • Justin Church

    If for some reason I do not write back to your comment or question do not take it the wrong way. I have become really overwhelmed with questions and feedback from the community. Each day it gets more and more interesting. I appreciate everyone taking a look at this. Right now I’m trying to toggle my own little company, the h-cat, the h-cat forums, the stuff going on within the YouTube research community, my personal email, and my personal life. Really hard to do

    • NT

      Thanks Justin, keep after it, but take the time to smell the roses now and then too…

  • bachcole

    I am going to take a wild educated guess based upon burning my fingers for the past 68 years. I would guess that the output is around 400 watts. That could be a little conservative. But think of four 100 watt bulbs. That setup was certainly putting out more than 400 watts. That would be a COP of 400 / 70 = about 6. Anyone else have an honest, not hope or enthusiasm powered guess?

  • US_Citizen71

    Neat experiment, but 70 watts of power is actually a lot. An easy bake oven runs off close to the same power, my 15 watt soldering iron melts lead, a 60 watt incandescent light bulb can heat a tiny room it is all a matter of trapping the heat or concentrating it. The heat from oxidizing the hydrogen catalytically would heat up the catalytic converter in time and the large metal mass would store heat and appear at casual glance to be outputting more energy than flowing in. Without being able to test the output any thoughts of over-unity are premature in my opinion.

    • Mr. Moho

      They should have one of these units put into a calorimeter to test whether it’s actually overunity or not.
      I checked out videos from other people trying to replicate this “H-Cat” and it seems pretty efficient, though.

      • US_Citizen71

        Most metals conduct heat very well so the entire unit getting hot is not an unexpected result if the hydrogen is simply being burnt. Put a 60 watt light bulb on a drop cord and place it under an over turned pot. After a few minutes the pot will become too hot to touch.

        • Mr. Moho

          It could pretty much be the case, but what makes this worth investigating in my opinion is that there also are several coincidences consistent with claims from actual researchers, suggesting that LENR effects might have so far literally remained hidden in plain sight. Who would normally think of using oxyhydrogen (aka HHO) for anything other than burning it, after all? It’s so dangerous to store and handle it has to be generated on the fly or kept in separate containers for hydrogen and oxygen.

          • US_Citizen71

            I am all for research and you never know as you say something interesting could be hiding in plain sight. Ceramic heaters are about 95% efficient for electricity to infrared heat, so room for improvement without exceeding unity is small.

        • NT

          Yes, but would the pot reach 1000 ºF or higher or even melt? I don’t know just asking…

          • US_Citizen71

            No, but the device in the video isn’t getting anywhere near that temperature either. So what are you implying?

            • NT

              Sorry, not implying anything US_citizen, so sorry if you took my simple question the wrong way. I do not know what eventual temperature would be reached by your lightbulb example. I did just see a video of Justin’s on youtube where he took the temperature of a piece of the automotive catalyzer encased in a closed a small piece of pipe up to a temperature of 600 ºF before he stopped adding HHO and stabilized the temperature. It appears he could have gone much higher, but ended because of the potential danger…

              • US_Citizen71

                No offense taken I just wasn’t sure where you were going. I would think my example would top out some where around 300F if left running long enough. That is just a guess based on youthful experience with an athletic sock nearly catching fire after being placed over a lightbulb to dim it. : )

                Hydrogen burns at 932F so he hasn’t exceeded that yet. I wish him luck!

                • NT

                  No problem US_citizen, thanks for you info and inputs during these interesting and exciting times…

                • Justin Church

                  We don’t know the peak temperature of this yet. Yes I have reached over 1500F internally with this process, so high my probes won’t read it. I don’t video everything. I am working on insulating and sealing the cat to get more accurate numbers. I would also hope everyone else really interested in the effect work on the project as well instead of making assumptions. I make assumptions too but I can because I am the one experimenting with this and seeing it with my own eyes. Nobody in this world can make assumptions without first having dealt with it first hand.

                • NT

                  Justin, as a very old experimenter and inventor I concur with your hypothesis to a point, as we all start off with some basic assumptions and ideas on the unknown road of experimentation…

                • Curbina

                  Justin, have you posted this in the overunity forum? (www.overunity.com) there is always experimental ready people there. Other person that could quickly get into this is JL Naudin, he has been reasearching HHO for long time, and he is always quick to replicate.

                • Curbina

                  I just emailed Mr. Naudin to see if he gets interested in replicating this effect. Let’s see.

                • Mr. Moho
        • Justin Church

          Hydrogen is also not “burnt” in this reaction

    • Justin Church

      An easy bake oven is made from mostly plastic with very thin sheet metal. A 60 watt light bulb wouldn’t do much to a heavy duty catalytic converter but make it luke warm. Your 15 watt soldering iron can only melt a tiny piece of lead, nothing more. Nobody can deny that the process seems to parallel with some of the LENR research and techniques. Again I cannot do this alone. Everyone including myself can make assumption after assumption but until the testing is done, the case is not closed. This information has been out over a month now and not too many people have offered to do any type of testing other than assumptions,numbers, or suggestions for me. I am just one person. Does anybody build anymore? I have also asked for information as it pertains to pure combustion of hho not H2 and I nobody has come up with anything. I have desperately searched for on demand hydrogen or hho catalytic combustion heaters and have come up with absolutely nothing but dead ends. The stuff doesn’t exists. Its also a fact that catalytic combustion produces a significant amount of thermal heat as compared to conventional heating so even if its not LENR or over-unity, a fully functional heater based on the catalytic combustion of hho would probably smoke the competition. I respect your opinion but don’t have to agree.

      • US_Citizen71

        My post was not intended to be an attack on you relax. A little science lesson, your generator creates H2 and O2 not HHO. There is no condition or reason for oxygen or hydrogen to remain mono-atomic when created by electrolysis. Catalytic heating via H2 generated on demand might be useful and also dangerous. A hydrogen leak could be potentially dangerous in a closed room. Something to think about.

        • Justin Church

          No its not dangerous lol. We live in 2014 not 1914. We have so much safety equipment to make this work its stupid we are not using it. Hydrogen is safer than Natural Gas, Propane, Gasoline, Diesel, Coal ect. Run a propane heater inside an unvented room, then run a hho heater inside of an unvented room. See which room you are able to walk out of alive in lol. And don’t give me the what I would call crap about hho only being H2 and O2. That is a lie and not true at all. I can guarantee you our alkaline hho cells produce and concentrate Deuterium. Go back and study how they produce Deuterium, one way is through electrolysis. They were going back and ripping apart alkaline batteries and electrolysis cells like crazy to get the liquid electrolyte out because they contained high concentrations of heavy water. There is more to this gas than meets the eye. It ain’t just H2 and O2 lol

          • Mr. Moho

            Hydrogen combustion or the gas itself are not a health hazard per se, but the gas ignites with very low energy and starting from 4% concentration in the air. Undetected leaks can easily cause explosions. It’s a dangerous gas, but in a different way.

            • Justin Church

              If the gas is leaking out in a totally sealed off room then yes leaks is an issue but hydrogen will find its way out of a room very fast and rise into the atmosphere. It will not stick around like heavy propane will. The risk of the gas reaching ignition temps is slim to none compared to all the other hydrocarbon fuels. Plus we can use hydride tanks which would provide almost 0 chance of leaks. Plus we have tons of safety and monitoring equipment that can be implemented into the system. Undetected leaks should be of little to no concern. If people really understood how dangerous the fuels we use today are they would be scared to death to even be near them. We don’t give it a second thought because its familiar. Hydrogen is new but much safer than any other gas on the planet. On demand systems would be even safer. I have ran my hho generators for days on end in my room without ventilation, haven’t blew anything up yet because it escapes into the atmosphere. The safety has already been solved.

            • US_Citizen71

              Exactly. I’m not trying to bust his balls, this is an issue that would come up with an UL certification for residential use or the equivalent. Engineering can solve it no problem. You could even likely make the water and gas self feeding cool the water vapor with a heat-exchanger and let it drip back into the tank. Make the case strong and hard to puncture. The closed system limits possible gas creation and the container prevents Jon Doe from killing himself during normal use.

              • Justin Church

                Engineering has already solved the issues you guys talk about. Don’t think the United States Government and Military have invested trillions of dollars of our money to research these technologies and haven’t implemented safety into the devices. Everyone has to experiment with this at their own risk. I am not looking to put a hho catalytic heater on a Wal-Mart shelf. The corporations should have already done that. I am looking to learn how to build the stuff myself because the power structure has failed to do anything but tease me with the technology. People are scared of Hydrogen I have no idea why. Its safe, the corporate side knows its safe to and have already engineered every bit of to be safe. More people die of carbon monoxide poisoning and flash fires of hydrocarbon fuels than you realize. You even drive your car around with enough gasoline to create a bomb that would level a building. My point is everyone points out the bad of Hydrogen but don’t realize how bad and dangerous the fuels you are using today are. Hydrogen is just another gas, just like the rest of them. The exact same safety precautions must be practiced.

        • tacozar

          If you really want to split hairs its 2H2 O2. hho is more of a nick name people use.

  • bachcole

    Just a quick note: “I have no doubt that it could be over unity.” That is sort of an oxymoron.

    If everything here is being shown honestly without deception, I will say it properly: I have no doubt that it is over unity. I believe that everything in that video is being presented honestly.

    • Justin Church

      I hope to soon be able to say that with absolute confidence. No smoke and mirrors here my friend. I believe this process to be super efficient and I’m super excited about it. In my mind, over-unity has been achieved. We all will keep working to mathematically prove that out.

  • Dave

    You can buy these off the shelf. http://catalyticovens.com/catalytic-reaction/

    • Mr. Moho

      As far I’ve seen so far, the claim is not merely that it’s doing catalytic heating (of which there are already commercial products, as you linked) with off-the-shelf parts (catalytic converters from cars), but that it’s doing it at an apparently significantly higher efficiency (>1x) than the energy used to split water into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis, and that the resulting oxyhydrogen mixture (also called HHO in fringe websites) used is actually playing an important part in this happening, which reminds me a bit of Ruggero Santilli’s theories according to which this gas has special properties.

      Commercial catalytic heaters are usually made for use with hydrocarbons like methane, propane, etc.

      • Owen Geiger

        I just happened to read Santilli’s Wiki article yesterday. Talk about biased journalism. They practically called him a scam artist and conveniently left out many of his accomplishments.

        HHO catalytic heaters are really catching peoples attention. I think most people have assumed LENR requires pre-heating, pressure, EMF or RF or sparks for stimulation, carefully controlled hydrogen and a complex controller. Maybe these things are required for optimization to create billion dollar markets but not for simple space heaters and cookers.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      One could buy such a device, feed it with HHO and see what happens. But I would recommend strongly to put it behind a protective wall. A problem seems to be the ratio between hydrogen and oxygen. An exactly stoichiometric mixture would be potentially explosive. With a non-stoichiometric mixture, either some hydrogen or some oxygen would remain and escape into the environment.

  • Priestie

    This looks VERY interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTuFuw6vAlo
    Definitely some weird reaction taking place.

  • Sanjeev

    The input is easy to measure. Sum of DC power fed into the hho generator and DC power fed to the CAT. Can be done with a wattmeter or multimeters.
    The output energy measurement will need calorimetry. One way is to submerge the whole CAT into a container of water and measure the temperature rise of water. An identical control setup with a common water heater fed with same amount of power will be needed for comparison. If the HCat container heats up more than the control, you have something there.
    Of course this will need a rig and some time and money to set it up. Or he can simply contact MFMP, who already have the goods. I wish them all the best.

    • david55

      There is no DC power fed to the cat just sending raw hho into cold Catalytic converters.

    • Justin Church

      “Of course this will need a rig and some time and money to set it up.” How true that is. I’m trying to do this with no money invested at the moment, mainly because I have no money to invest and I refuse to take money from people who want me to work in secret. If someone is going to give me money I want them to do it in the name of Humanity. Do not expect a return in investment, only that the money is used to directly explore and develop the technology as openly as possible. I have not contacted MFMP directly but I have tried to touch bases with others in the alternative energy research community that I thought would give me feedback or jump at the opportunity to explore it further. The truth is most of the alt energy community and even some of the cold fusion community have ignored me. They know exactly what I’m doing. Curious that after I posted my video of the process Sterling Alan had a slew of interviews come out from the Corporate Cold Fusion guys. They were doing complete walk-throughs of some of the labs. Gave us all more level headed information than ever before. I wondered if all of it was a direct response to my video but who knows, none of those guys ever contacted me or even acknowledged me. The MFMP is an awesome group but I’m sure they have also seen the experiments already. I am so happy the experimentes have caught the eye of you guys and the great people at EcatWorld. Maybe now we can get to the bottom of it. As I said before and streesed in my video the process of catalytic combustion of hho seems to have been scrubbed off the internet as a whole. Why? I think I know why but nobody else is talking….

      • Mr. Moho

        You sound like the right person for MFMP. They prefer to do everything in the open whenever possible. That’s their mission statement. I don’t think they’ve seen your experiments yet.

        • Justin Church

          I don’t know. I’ve had my feelings crushed by some of the people I have looked up to so I’m not sure I want to go down that road again. My contact information is readily available and if any of you guys would like to submit the experiments over for review then I’m fine by that too. I’m a bitter realist when it comes to this research. My opinions come off rather dry and harsh at times but there is usually a lot of truth in what I say. For that reason alone most people step back from making contact with me. I got to be honest the MFMP research is great but it seems to be more of a science experiment show than anything else. I used to build pc’s as a teenager and became friends with a few people I called “Over Compulsive CPU Over-Clockers”. They were so involved in trying to get more speed out of the cpu, or upgrading components, or tearing it down they never took the time to actually use the machine because were so busy testing and repairing on. My point is all of this cold fusion research has become somewhat of a joke to me. Why has the research been going on for decades but the reactors are still being experimented with and probed on like a mad-science experiment. So much data now exists from these people that excess heat exists and yet the industry still remains hidden in plain sight. I’m tired of seeing no real work being done to put these devices into working order in our mainstream lives. While all these groups are raking in millions of dollars in government or private based funding, I’m sitting in the cold or paying top dollar for a gallon of toxic fuel. We have parts in the junkyard to build these devices and put them to work and yet nobody is doing it. All of us keep following the corporate side of this when all they seem to be doing is putting on a pony show for everyone. Where is my fusion heater? Where is my fusion car? Where is my fusion hot water heater? Where is my fusion electrical generator? I will tell you where….sitting in a lab connected to “testing” probes and apparatus’s. I know some of these groups are really trying to push the technology forward and are honest at heart but for some of us enough is enough. Its not like the United States hasn’t been involved in this research since the early 1950’s. Some of these cold fusion groups actually work with defense contractors like DARPA. They know a lot more than they tell us. I don’t want to come off as rude but again some of this cold fusion stuff seems to be more of a dog and pony show for us instead of an attempt at real progress and market transition…My opinion only…

          • Mr. Moho

            The guys at MFMP are not government-funded or affiliated with governmental institutions or universities, if you fear they will ignore you because of that. They’re in fact a non-profit organization. Their goal is to produce scientifically valid and comprehensive experiments in order to conclusively demonstrate that LENR / anomalous heat effects are real and useful. Once that happens, nobody will be able to deny that and no company will be able to delay commercial products due to the need for capitalizing on existing technology first.

          • NT

            Hi Justin, I/we really appreciate your work and ingenuity in furthering the knowledge of LENR and in particular in helping us little guys to hopefully someday soon see a benefit. As Mr. Moho has stated, Nickel catalysts are available and much cheaper that the noble metals in US Cat’s. I did a quick google search and came up with quite a list of these at: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=nickel+based+catalyst
            Perhaps you could use something like this in your future experiments.
            Good luck and keep up the with your great work SAFELY…

            • Justin Church

              We do want to start exploring nickel based catalysts as well. I appreciate the link. Automobile catalytic converters are easy to find and while a brand new one isn’t cheap, they are available in junk yards around the country. The cat can be cleaned out if needed with proper technique. I’m trying to put something together cheap and easy, not re-invent the wheel so to speak. Even if you paid top dollar for a cat and top dollar for the rest of the equipment. If I could build a simple fully functional fusion heater for a couple of grand, it would be worth it. Thanks again for the kind words

              • Owen Geiger

                I really appreciate the efforts you’ve made Justin. As readers here know, there’s around 2.7 billion people in the world living on $2 a day or less who couldn’t care less about fancy new reactors from BlackLight, Industrial Heat, etc. because there’s no way they can afford them. They need low tech heaters for space heating and drying grain, smokeless stoves, hot water heaters.

                So with the utmost respect I encourage you to do one high quality video that summarizes exactly what you’re doing and what you’ve accomplished. Use still shots and subtitles if possible so everyone can understand the message. Test your heater and measure the results. Then create an online fundraiser. This could easily go viral if done correctly because the demand for affordable energy is so great. The Power be with you my friend.

      • Sanjeev

        Looks like Bob already offered for a measurement. You need not stop your own R&D, you will see the measurements right in your browser sitting at home. The thing is – overunity results will spread this like wild fire, its a win-win situation.
        Another way to measure the output is to paint the CAT with thermal black paint (like Rossi did) and simply measure the average temperature of it. SB law gives the output power directly. It will be a bit approximate, but if the COP is high enough, it will be a solid proof.

  • http://magicmusicandmore.com/ Barry

    Thanks David. Catalytic converters are what drove up the price of palladium.

  • NT

    Perhaps a little of Hamlet applies here, “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”, as he points out how little even the most educated people can explain. This from Shakespeare’s quick quotes…

  • Mr. Moho

    The substrate of a catalytic converter is usually a ceramic mesh with micro particles of palladium and other rare metals deposited on its surface (there are nickel-based catalytic converters too). Directing a constant flow of hydrogen, preferably nascent, on treated nickel or palladium surfaces is relatively common practice in LENR experiments. I’ve often wondered if automotive catalytic converters couldn’t actually produce LENR under certain conditions, given the similarities to actual lab LENR experiments. It could indeed be that Rossi actually started that way, discovering unusual heating properties from catalytic converters he might have used in his Petroldragon days.

    I also remember reading (I think that was from a Focardi interview posted somewhere) that Rossi used to generate his own hydrogen in his early E-Cat experiments, and that sounds similar to what is going on here. Maybe he was even actually using an oxyhydrogen mixture like this guy, too.

    The only thing that worries me however is that he’s got products to sell on his website, so he has a conflict of interest in telling people that they should do their own tests instead of collaborating with others who could verify if the entire system is truly more efficient than a standard resistive heater. I’m also referring to this paragraph. The attitude doesn’t inspire much confidence in his results:

    For the most part people have been very positive and excited but we are seeing a lot of “We Want Measurements” from the community as well. Most of these people are what I call the “Peanut Gallery” and have never built anything their-self. They don’t care about the engineering of the deviceand the usefulness of it unless they are spoon fed numbers. It is a very simple process to test out. Buy or build a small hho generator, inject gas into a catalytic converter, watch it heat up.

    This being said, it sounds like something MFMP / Huglab could easily test and verify.

    • Paul

      I agree, however build a device to make HHO like he sells is very easy, provided that you use high currents. The only element to pay attention is the electrolyte, because with common salts or substances electrolysis develops gases dangerous, so if you are not a skilled amateur or a chemist it is better make electrolysis in open air not inside your home.

    • david55

      Why you think you must buy something from him ? HHO generator is very easy to build and there are hundreds site that you can buy them .

      • Mr. Moho

        That’s the impression I got when I tried visiting his website and that was all I found. I hoped to find more information about this.

        To be fair though, I tried watching videos from a few other people who attempted replicating it, and I have to admit this is quite intriguing and probably worth investigating. They seem to be getting visibly more heat than the electrical energy spent splitting water with electrolysis. I might be missing something, though.

        • Justin Church

          I apologize, the only thing on my website are my products and its descriptions. All my work and progress is on my YouTube channel and the h-cat forums. JdcProducts is my YouTube handle. I’m really not here to sale anything only provide interesting information which seems to have been taken away from the public eye.

    • Iggy Dalrymple
    • bitplayer

      “It could indeed be that Rossi actually started that way, discovering unusual heating properties from catalytic converters he might have used in his Petroldragon days.”

      That’s going to be a *really cool* part of the whole story, when it comes out. Tips again to Christina for pointing in that direction a while back.

  • david55
  • Donk970

    I do think that LENR is probably happening more often than anyone realizes. It’s going to turn out that LENR’s happen a lot but the energy gets overlooked because the effect is normally too small to be seen over the background of chemical energy.

    • Allan Shura

      There is almost zero publicly available data on ionized plasma states at different energy levels in controlled atmospheres and
      conditions.

  • Daniel Maris

    I like his attitude! There is absolutely no harm in this sort of experimentation (assuming they are taking some basic safety measures) – we may learn something from it. The effect does seem surprisingly strong.

  • Paul

    Very interesting! It could be the link between the BlackLight process and the E-Cat, who knowd, You said it produces a lot more heat than using an hho flame pointed at a piece of metal. It would be interesting to heat externally the same piece of metal we see in the video with the hho flame and than measure the temperature. Which is the temperature that you measure in such case?

  • Gerard McEk

    Today I also watched the video, but there are too few details to build an opinion. It could well be that the H2 gas burns within the catalyzer as oxygen has free access. (Burning small quantities of H2 can be hardly visible, you have to look at it in the dark). A local flame making a hot spot on the wall is surely possible also with 50 watts. You really need to know how much heat is actually produced, but I understood they are busy with that, so wait and see.

  • E_man

    Can not it be the H+H efect on the third body pover excess?

  • Chris I

    50 W measured how?

    • ecatworld

      I think that’s the power consumption of the on-demand HHO generator he’s using.

    • Job001

      13.8V x 5A = 69 watts per what he read/said from meter.