LENR — The Big Picture

We’ve been discussing quite a number of different systems and companies recently that could loosely be termed LENR (there are some quibbles about that label), and I want to look for a moment at the big picture here, and where things seem to be heading.

From where I sit, I get the sense that there is a gradually increasing amount of serious attention being paid to this field. As administrator of E-Cat World I watch a number of indicators regarding things like the volume of web traffic, the number and quality of comments, incoming links, and sources of traffic — and they seem to be moving overall in a positive direction. I have not noticed as much trolling or skepticism about LENR/CF/E-Cat lately, and I was pleased to see the recent Wired UK article about cold fusion moving ‘stealthily into the mainstream‘ provide a good overview of the current state of affairs in the LENR field, with the author David Hambling taking the field perfectly seriously.

Recent news and developments indicate that there is progress being made in the industry. I think the revelation that Cherokee Investment Partners are involved with Andrea Rossi, and funding his research has sparked some positive attention, and garnered some more credibility for his work. The visit of Cherokee CEO Tom Darden to China where he talked about ‘nickel reactors’ indicates there are some serious discussions taking place about industrializing the E-Cat. I think the Rossi/Cherokee partnership could be part of the reason why some of the other players in the field such as Blacklight Power and Brillouin now seem to be publicly reaching out more.

Brillouin themselves have shown that they seem to be making progress. The recent videos published at PESN give a good indication that they have a sophisticated R&D operation going on — however, they readily admit they lack the funds to expand as they would like.

I think a positive report from the team currently testing the E-Cat could be a catalyst to really open people’s eyes. Hopefully the testing team will have learned some lessons from last years test, and will have eliminated any possibility of serious objection on the grounds of trickery on Rossi’s part. Rossi’s report of an expanded team is good news — the more expertise the better.

My feeling is that competition in the field is good for everyone — it sharpens the attention and speeds up development, and eventually leads to better products in the marketplace — and the more credible players there are in the field, the more likely LENR is to be taken seriously. What I think is highly significant in all this is that more and more people are coming to a realization that there are new and improved ways to cleanly harness the seemingly limitless energy that is available at the atomic level. If that realization becomes widespread, there is bound to be far more involvement in the field by people in science, industry, business, and public policy — and we really could be looking at a whole new approach to energy production throughout the world.

  • LENR G

    There’s big bucks ?!!!???

  • atanguy

    The point that I’m trying to make is that Nirvana Energy seems to be closer than anybody to offer a system to make heat/cool and electricity to individuals or small communities.

  • GreenWin

    This scandal confirms certain elements in academia and government collude to debunk certain kinds of research. Kirvit reveals that much of the “fraud” committed in this dustup appears to have originated with Oxford Philosophy B.A., and Journal Nature correspondent Eugenie Reich. That such “authors” with little background in experimental sciences should be influential to this extent – is a stunning fail.

    But it appears Ms Reich has an agenda; to sell books based on her amateur opinions about science fraud. Her 2009 flop, “Plastic Fantastic: How the Biggest Fraud in Physics Shook the Scientific World” is evidence. Biggest??

    But this scandal involves more than just Ms Reich. Kirvit reports federal investigators point to the head of Purdue University School of Nuclear Engineering, UCLA scientist Seth Putterman, University Illinois chemist Kenneth Suslick, and even the Inspector General of ONR (Office of Naval Research,) Holly Adams. Kirvit reports that “DOD” eventually put Ms. Adams on leave and withdrew her clearance.

    The whole bunch dishonor their esteemed institutions. This is yet another argument in support of Nobel laureate Randy Sheckman’s boycott of big science journals. Who loses most in these battles of MIC/Academia egos?? The human race.

    • georgehants

      GreenWin, As these people and journals have had such a devastating effect on Cold Fusion and many other subjects, I think the more it is highlighted the greater service one does for Cold Fusion now and many subjects in the future.
      Perhaps Admin may consider putting up a topic asking what people think has been the effect of such corruption and incompetence on the possible lives effected by 24 years of scientific fraud etc.

  • Ivan Klimovich

    I check this website from time to time and must say that all this E-cat stuff seems very strange to me. I’m awaiting
    1) Peer reviewed tests
    2) Promised 1st commercial 1million $ plant in 1 cubic meter,

    If that doesn’t happen in 2014 it will be funny to me to continue checking the topic every 3-4 month and see what are the “updates”

    To me it looks strange that the device was demonstrated last year and no one is trying to push as much information as possible into masses. Or they are planning to monopolize energy market with their E-cats? I hope that these greedy thoughts are not behind E-cat and Co


    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Ivan……see you next year.

      • psi


  • georgehants

    From Vortex with thanks
    Alain Sepeda
    Just to launch a discussion and reveal yet another academic example of
    I fall on that newslette by Steven Krivit
    “Federal Investigations Reveal Academic Backstabbing at Purdue University.”
    I don’t know about that affair, but the way people are condemned without
    evidence, remind me Bockris affair.
    times to burns the dissenters, their journal… and not only in LENR.
    something is rotten in the real of academics, as Taleb moans. It seems
    structural, linked to the way power is distributed in academic structures.
    I am convinces academic struture of government funded research, of
    peer-reviewed decisions, lead necessarily to Mutual Assured Delusion which
    lead to dissenters assasination, self-censorship, pal-review, books

  • jousterusa

    You note that ” If that realization becomes widespread” LENR will get its overdue attention from Big Science, the media, etc. I have come to realize that due to the huge embarrassment that the Pons-Fleishman press conference in March 1989 was for everyone who covered it so grandly, there is not going to be a big Opening Day splash for any of these technologies. At some point the New York times will do a “roundup” piece on the field and run it on P. 24 of the front section on a weekday. We’re not going to see the coverage that the Pons-Fleischman announcement got (and deserved, in retrospect). Nor will we see the crash efforts of universities to match the findings, or the announcement of huge investments by the government and private industry. The “realization” will grow very slowly until the science is taken for granted and there is no longer a justification for a big news splash. Although I had urged BlackLight Power just three or four days before to put out another press release – it had been moe than a year since one – I was thrilled by the idea of a demonstration until I learned in E-Cat world today that the magnetoheterodyne (sp?) converter still has to be constructed, if not invented, to demonstrate actual and practical electricity production. I wonder how many years that may take, and whether Rossi is in that race as well? I was hoping that the BLM demo would show their Cranbury, NJ, plant being taken off the grid and then powered by the hydrino reactor, or that one of the SF-CIHT fuel cells that can propel an automobile 1,500 miles on a liter of water would be shown, started up and sent to Arizona. That would make headlines, but extremely complex physics with just a bunch of cables, gauges and lights won’t make much of a splash unless science writers are less skeptical and more accepting than I know them to be.

    • georgehants

      jousterusa, maybe part of the reason science does not bother with things like Cold Fusion.
      The Guardian home
      Blue Monday, bad science and nonsense PR
      “Well that’s a really vital piece of “research” by a “Team of
      Scientists” with far too much time, or is that liquid-lunchtime, on
      their hands.”
      “Their taxpayer funded grants must have been running low. Ever
      wondered how these ‘academics’ fund their lifestyle? Simple, their money
      is running out so they think up a crazy scam, then get funding, which
      pays their income, for the ‘research’ and hey presto! Another bit of
      useless information which has funded their salaries for the next few
      “I wonder how many tax dollars were wasted on this scientific study.”
      “The mind truly boggles, how someone can spend years of their life
      coming up with such a ridiculous equation is utterly beyond belief.”

    • Frechette

      The magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) plasma to electricity converter has been worked on for almost as long as hot fusion by a number of electric power equipment companies including such heavy hitters as Westinghouse. I do not believe there is a single plant in commercial operation using the technology. While the science behind it is solid the engineering problems to implement a converter are non trivial.

      • bachcole

        And since the LENR-hydrino problem is still quite a daunting task, I believe that the MHD problem should be abandoned until later. Or is Mills getting into the Babbage syndrome of never being able to finish a project because he wants to add just one more little function?

  • LENR G

    I’ve been analyzing the Blacklight Power technical documents. I’m impressed by the 3rd party validation by Copeland/ENSER and the recent results published with UNC finding signs of hydrinos in the extreme ultraviolet range at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, but even moreso by the predictive capability of bond energies in molecules using the classical approach versus established Quantum Mechanical approximations (Hartree-Fock). See page 18 of their Technical Presentation PDF to see what I mean.

    I’m even starting not to reflexively dismiss the theory — basically modeling an electron as a sphere of flowing charge density, with higher energy states represented by different charge density concentrations and flows — with classical laws governing the transitions between states. I can see how this might be reconciled with Quantum Mechanics, so that they are “both right.”

    But what I really wanted to share was that Blacklight has been soft-peddling us. Looking at the equations and the possible energy states of hydrinos, the 204 eV that we can get out of a transition from a single ground state hydrogen atom to a H[1/4] hydrino (the kind used in the CIHT cells, supposedly, using nascent water as the catalyst) is awesome, but…

    The theoretical limit is actually about 1000 times greater than that [down to the real bottom hydrino energy state of H[1/137]. If hydrinos are real (?!) then we could eventually expect to get something more than 100 keV per hydrogen atom. And on a more meaningful scale, Blacklight’s already insane 10 GW per liter would become 10 TW per liter (10 terawatts per liter or 10,000 gigawatts per liter)!

    The world’s population continuously consumes (on average) about 20 TW (that’s 20,000 gigawatts). A couple of liters per second to power *everything*. That’s something.

    If the 28 Jan demo/presentation by Blacklight is not an embarrassment, I’m going to have to start to pay some real attention to these guys. Cause, wow.

    • BroKeeper

      Now that’s what I call an Energizer Bunny.

    • blanco69

      If you are right then I hope they don’t find a way to release all of that energy at once. Manhattan 2 anyone?

      • LENR G

        We already have plenty of ways to kill each other.

        Abundant energy and surging Quality of Life could go a long way to relieve the stresses between nations and peoples.

  • atanguy

    I do not care if the new energy uses LENR or not,I care to have a source of energy individual or for some small communities. It’s why I feel that, at this point, the most interesting news is the one concerning the Nirvana Energy system:
    Am I the only one?
    To illustrate the stirling engine in this type of system:

  • Ophelia Rump

    Please excuse me when I say that this so often as to now becoming trite regurgitated opinion pronouncing COP must be over ten is garbage.

    A Cop of 6 can get 20% bonus energy after all losses are accounted for, I have priced an off the shelf system, parts compatible. I have calculated the power losses. (Try it yourself, if you doubt me.)
    In three or four years the investment can pay itself back.

    Where else can you get a secure return on investment at a rate of 20%?

    Five such systems would get you the equivalent of a COP of 10. The only difference is the initial investment.

    Now consider that this as small scale and distributed and the “waste heat” can be utilized as home heating, or in greenhouses, etc.

    Repeating the mantra that LENR requires COP 10 to be viable is a disservice to LENR. I have no doubt that LENR’s detractors would like to set the bar unrealistically high, but you should not help them.

    A COP of ten from a single system is absolutely astoundingly sexy, irresistible, It is not some minimum below which lies oblivion and the scrap heap.

    Stop thinking COP, Think ROI.

    (And Sandy, Dump those precious metal investments, there are idiots pumping their prices in every comments session of the internet. the bubble is about to burst.)

    • SteveW

      I think a cop of 6 would get the world to wake up to lenr and start a frenzy of research. However, industry would wait on spending millions to retrofit current plants under the anticipation that better systems would be coming out in the near future and they wouldn’t be able to recoup the cost before their early systems became obsolete. Of course companies like Google might jump in to look green.

    • Sandy

      The average cost of producing gold by mining is around $1,200 per ounce. So if it becomes possible to produce gold by artificial means (i.e., nuclear reactions) then it would be a good idea to “dump” investments in gold and gold mining stocks. However, that kind of artificial production has not yet been demonstrated.

      The Chinese have been purchasing 1,000 tonnes of gold each month for the past 15 months. They probably feel that they now have sufficient gold to back their national currency and are therefore ready for the “global currency reset” that many people (including me) believe is imminent.

      I disagree that the gold market is a bubble. With gold selling at $1,250 per ounce the mining companies are not profitable and cannot replace their depleting gold deposits. So the price of gold is NOT a bubble “about to burst”. I think it is highly significant that J.P. Morgan & Co. is holding a very large LONG position in gold futures for the first time in 20 years. Morgan is Obama’s banker and knows what Obama intends to do in the next two months. People who are short the gold market are likely to get creamed. The U.S. Government cannot allow Morgan’s $100 trillion derivatives book to blow up because that event would bring down the global financial system. The politics of this situation make it very likely that the price of gold will go up to at least $1,400 very soon, but don’t bet on that because gold is being manipulated for political reasons and no one can be sure what the politicians will do. The most important factor in this situation is that Obama is not eligible to run for a third term as president. So he is in a position to do something as extremely unpopular as devaluing the U.S. dollar by 70 or 80 percent. And if that is what the bankers want then that is exactly what Obama will do.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        It’s already possible to produce gold via transmutation, e.g. from 196Hg. But you need a conventional nuclear reactor for that. Much too expensive, at the moment. But you are right, if it were practicable to fabricate gold at low cost, it would lose its exceptional importance for investment. It would just be traded like any other industrial commodity. Who knows what happens (or has already happened) in some laboratories…

    • Alan DeAngelis

      What COP are the hot fusion people getting?

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        As far as I know the COP of hot fusion at the moment is 1. Some laboratory reported a “COP > 1”, but didn’t specify how much bigger and the circumstances of that test/report were suspicious to say the least. (http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/10/bbc-reports-hot-fusion-experimental-success-with-cop-1/).

        And this is a test where they focused a ridiculous amount of laser power on one point and apparently got a tiny little bit more heat out than put in. I say the jury is still out on this one but I have my doubts about it. Couldn’t find any more recent tests so to me COP of Hot Fusion is still 1 (or less).

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      A COP of 6 would be nice, but a COP of 10 or more would be so much better in term of ROI and how much simpler your systems can be. You don’t need 5 COP 6 systems when you have 1 COP 10 system. I do agree with you that a COP 6 system can work also, especially if you consider this is “green” technology so you can put a stop to the pollution of conventional systems (nuclear power plants included).

      If Rossi’s hot-cat get’s commercialized I expect a COP of well over 10, in fact I guess that a COP of 30 would be (easily?) possible. After a decade I would expect to see reliable systems with a COP of 100 and more. High COP just makes everything so much more easy. Even if there are lot’s of different systems from different companies, a key decision point would be the COP of such systems. COP does matter although at the moment a COP 6 would do to prove LENR to the world. Still COP 10 or more would do better 🙂

  • Sandy

    Devaluing the U.S. dollar against gold is not my idea. In the past few months, Richard Russell has at least twice suggested that the U.S. dollar be devalued against gold. In one instance he wrote,

    “Here’s what I think the authorities have to do. They should unilaterally, overnight raise the price of gold to a high value, maybe around $10,000 an ounce. Thus, each dollar would be worth one ten-thousandth of an ounce of gold. This would allow our enormous debt to be paid off with vastly devalued dollars.”

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-russell-debt-problem-raise-value-of-gold-to-10k-2012-9#ixzz2qsXK3Yh0

    And in one instance Mr. Russell proposed that the U.S. dollar be devalued to $50,000 per ounce of gold. That would probably be an excessive devaluation but $10,000 would be reasonable given current U.S. liabilities.

    I am trying to make sense out of the existing government-sponsored financial bubbles and the fact that LENR technologies have been deliberately suppressed for more than 20 years. I am NOT in the “precious metals trading business”.

    Do you work for the Obama administration or for the Federal Reserve Board or for a Federal Reserve Bank?

    • Guru

      I have hypothesis, that gold will soon artificially produced as mass (via transmutation or so) or that already is artificially produced. So value of gold will very problematic.

      • atanguy

        @Sandy: The price of KWH is more important than the price of gold…
        @Guru: “gold will soon artificially produced” In that case energy problems will be solved,who would care about the price of gold?

  • Sandy

    We have past the ides of January and most of the December gold delivery contracts have not yet been settled. The Commodity Exchange, Inc. (COMEX) has, in effect, defaulted.


    Jim Willie, Lindsay Williams and others are predicting a “global currency reset”.


    I believe the powers that be will allow LENR technologies to be implemented after the Comex default has become too obvious to deny and after a global currency reset. In the U.S., the currency reset will be accomplished by President Obama ordering that the Exchange Stabilization Fund shall henceforth buy gold for $10,000 per ounce. This currency devaluation against gold will cause the price of imports into the U.S. to skyrocket, but such cost increases will be moderated by the gradual reduction of energy costs, made possible by the proliferation of LENR technologies.

    The powers that be have previously prevented the introduction of LENR technologies because those powers were not yet ready to devalue the U.S. dollar against gold and to put global trade back onto an international gold-exchange standard. They are ready to do those things now so they are going to allow the commercialization of LENR technologies very soon!

    Further reading: “China calls for new global currency” http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7168919&page=1&singlePage=true

    • SteveW

      Perhaps a coordinated attack on our economy that results in Marshall law (dollar devaluation and the chaos to the economy that lenr disclosure will bring). The PTB would never allow a BLP type device and probably not a Rossi type device into the world as it is now. But, into a one-world government, totalitarian-police/slave state- perhaps. The BLP release didn’t make any sense to me- if it was true, the NSA would know about it and keep it from being released. Maybe the BLP release on the 28th signals the beginning of the end. Oh no, just a thought experiment.

    • jousterusa

      Have you ever hear of the Republicans? They don’t allow Obama to do anything.

  • BroKeeper

    Paraphrasing AlianCo’s predictions, IMO 2014 will be the year of LENR public realization with pronouncements and demonstrations of COP>6. This will seal its fate as a viable energy alternative if not the overwhelming one. No BTP will be able to force this globally dispersed Genie back into the bottle.

    2015 will begin commercial awakening of its industrial application and prematurely force companies change their “Five-year-plans”.
    New energy stocks will begin to rise and petroleum/coal/utility stocks begin to fall. Gas prices may fall below $3.00 per gallon. Electricity bills will level off and perhaps drop some.

    2015-2017 will see an increase of LENR device assembly lines. Perhaps later, with increase cash flows will provide more research in resolving LENR devices domestic safety issues and open the next phase of mass home E-Cats and their equivalents. The best part of this is we see multiple devices from several LENR manufactures that will keep prices at affordable prices.

    Perhaps we are observing front row seats (tickets given by Frank) of the opera beginnings of a new industrial and social epoch. 🙂

  • Credo


    the new fire is spreading as it were from a small camp fire, yet still small, to become a forest fire. some revolutions occur suddenly and dramatically and our age loves drama. but others occur slowly but surely.

    LENR should cross some important thresholds in 2014. One of them will be when the academic physics people are finally convinced that it is not the death of their career to actually work in this field and on the contrary that a career could actually be made, even a life long reputation, by making discoveries in this field. Then LENR will have transitioned from having to work outside the system (aka: Rossi in his garage) to inside the system where the universities and corporate research people start pushing it forward with speed in the hopes of riches.

    The distance between those two modes is small. I think we are near crossing over or perhaps already have. Even then after the first generation of inventors have done their part there will be years and years of engineering and refining to do. The benefits of LENR will not increase in one giant dramatic “world saving” step function. It will be a steady increase in scale until it affects most areas of daily lives decades from now. All IMO.

    • “. One of them will be when the academic physics people are finally convinced that it is not the death of their career to actually work in this field and on the contrary that a career could actually be made, even a life long reputation, by making discoveries in this field.”

      to me that will be the signal of the Berlin Wall crumble…
      The rest is… technology… let few engineers focus on the problem, and let venture capitalists fund them…

      as I said the ONLY problem of LENR is US ACADEMICS (and their minions, Science,Nature, NYT,SciAm)…

      non physicists, non academic, non US, media and politicians were victims of their terror.
      Chemist, private research, industry, oil corps, nuclear industry labs, army, space agency, did their jobs. They just saved their butt.

      • atanguy

        “the ONLY problem of LENR is US ACADEMICS”
        Not only the US Alain, what about the Frenches with their $10,000 000 000 (yes 10 zeros) a piece for their new generation of nuclear plant EPR?

        • EPR is the consequence of a vision of bigger is better. the price of electricity is not so huge given the power and the life of the reactor. anyway LENR will kill that centralized vision.

          nuclear industry did not oppose LENR. CEA engineer tested LENR, like BARC, and other US nuclear reserch centers, like EPRI.

          As JP Biberian said what forced Longchampt to stop his work on replicating F&P cell, was that the boss of his lab wanted to have a Nobel price, and cold fusion would have killed his reputation in the academic circles.

          problem is academic.

          by the way:


          “Dear Readers,

          On Monday, Jan. 20, New Energy Times will publish “Federal Investigations Reveal Academic Backstabbing at Purdue University.”

          The report is about the controversy surrounding Rusi Taleyarkhan, a professor in the Purdue University School of Nuclear Engineering, and his research. Taleyarkhan has said that his group’s nuclear cavitation research may lead to a new carbon-free clean-energy technology, yet it has never been independently replicated. The research is sometimes called sonofusion or bubble fusion.

          In 2002, he and five colleagues at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory claimed that they were the first group to experimentally demonstrate and confirm the long-predicted phenomenon of nuclear reactions in cavitating liquids. According to independent audits performed by Oak Ridge peers Dan Shapria, Michael Saltmarsh and Michael Murray, they succeeded.

          The experiments were replicated by a team at Purdue in 2003, with some help from Taleyarkhan. Another team at Purdue replicated the results in 2005, and the experiments were also demonstrated in 2006 in front of a DARPA-sponsored review team. According to witnesses at that review, Taleyarkhan succeeded.

          Nevertheless, academic peers and competitors of Taleyarkhans coordinated to make accusations against him of research misconduct and/or fraud.

          Through multiple Freedom of Information Act requests,New Energy Times has obtained inter-university correspondence and documents from federal investigations revealing that Eugenie Reich, a freelance journalist writing for Nature’s news service, conspired with Lefteri Tsoukalas, at the time the head of the Purdue University School of Nuclear Engineering. Reich also collaborated with physicist Seth Putterman at the University of California, Los Angeles, and chemist Kenneth Suslick at the University of Illinois.

          All four of them sent allegations to Holly Adams, at the time the inspector general of the U.S. Office of Naval Research, claiming that Taleyarkhan had committed research misconduct and, in some cases, fraud.

          Yet, after several years of extensive and costly federally mandated investigations, no evidence of fraud was found.

          In response to pressure from the media, the inspector general, and Congress, a Purdue University committee, under the direction of an outside law firm, eventually created two specious allegations of research misconduct and adjudicated those same allegations against Taleyarkhan.

          Meanwhile, some of his accusers – fellow scientists – manipulated and withheld their own confirmatory data, misled the media, and misled federal investigators to advance their own diverse agendas.

          In response to investigations by New Energy Times, three federal offices conducted their own investigations. On Monday, we will report for the first time that documents obtained over the course of several years by New Energy Times from the federal government in response to FOIA requests show that Adams inappropriately collaborated with Tsoukalas.

          The Department of Defense put Adams on administrative leave, revoked her security clearance, and later reassigned her and reinstated her clearance. By that time, Purdue had forced Tsoukalas to resign as the head of the School of Nuclear Engineering.

          Taleyarkhan remains a professor in the school; however, Purdue has not rescinded most of its sanctions against him. His research has ground to a halt, and his reputation remains tainted by the accusations of fraud.

          Steven B. Krivit
          Publisher and Senior Editor
          New Energy Times”

          • Jean Paul Biberian

            Actually, it was not Lonchampt who was forced to stop because his boss wanted to have the Nobel Prize, it was my boss who was in this situation. Lonchampt was forced to stop, because he was working at the French Atomic Energy Commission in France, and the director of this organization stopped the research on LENR.

            Jean Paul Biberian

            • thanks for the correction, and sorry for mixing (your) stories…
              NB: read from the book “la fusion dans tous ses états”… interesting, and not only about LENR.

          • atanguy

            alainCo said “the price of electricity is not so huge”
            Nuclear Electricity is probably the costlier if you add Uranium extraction and isotopic seperation,the cost and maintenance of the reactors,the necessary safety measures,the safe disposal of used reactor,plant and used fuel. Even not compting catastrophies like Tchernobyl and Fukushima. Read this report:

  • Daniel Maris

    Well, to play devil’s advocate for a moment…

    BLP’s verifications to date seem to be stuck in the milliwatts/watts range.

    In the Brillouin videos, despite there being all that equipment about, we were told there would be no demo of above unity energy production.

    MPMF seem to have dropped off the table.

    Celani seems to have no breakthrough.

    Rossi and Defkalion appear to have something working at a more advanced level.

    But we still await one crushingly convincing demonstration. I hope it comes soon.

    • Private Citizen

      Celani is the only one to really put his head above the undeniably independent open testing barricade so far, and MFMP pretty well shot it off, at least as concerns the wires tested.

      • Daniel Maris

        It certainly doesn’t seem to have worked out that well…but I could never quite follow the MFMP narrative.

  • I confirm and there is some underground media moves…
    Still in the tunnel of public knowledge, but preparing for invading the surface.

    Beside that, all actors seems to advance technically, to face technical challenges with reliability, which make progress slow…

    probably the real entry of market will be 2015, but 2014 will be the revelation for the public.

    experts in innovation says innovation takes 5 years to get on the market, with rediuced expectations, while every innovator expect it for next 6 month…
    this makes 2016-2017. we are in advance, thus probably too optimistic.

    • LENR G

      Alain, can you expand on your “underground media moves” comment?

      • NDA, but you can guess from some public data. I also feel from reaction that data are spreading.

        My advise to people who want to help, is to push people to get informed themselves. to read the good books (I always advice Charles Beaudette : Excess Heat), to cite visible interest by Elforsk, Baoding HIDZ, Shell, NI,… to remind that beside some outspoken critics there is no scientific paper against LENR calorimetry… none, that survived, and many that are still pretended true who are factually false since long.

        some influencer are ready to use their influence.
        time will say if it works. but even if the first row of today fails, the next row will surely succeed.

        • LENR G


          You realize that you are now officially part of the conspiracy, right? ;P

          • artefact

            noo, they got Alain. But I feel the force is stong with him. I don’t give him up yet.

          • nothing huge, don’t panic… I keep my job… 😉
            If it works, it will just be good for my ego, and for LENR visibility…

        • Mr. Moho

          What kind of agreement do you have? I can’t understand why would any company make a LENR advocate/enthusiast like you sign for an NDA. That seems counterproductive and ethically unfair in my opinion.

          • not a company. my NDA is just self-decided privacy with someone.. ah ah… not selling the bear fur before you killed the bear. I have signed nothing for nobody… but I respect privacy.. I just help, relay, inform, …
            I’m just too happy, and hopeful, to shut up. (I’m ready to be deceived, but meanwhile I enjoy that new step).
            and this ,is linked to no company, no industry… Like the first time a girls kissed me to thank me. Much way to go…

            if a LENR company, or some media, or any honest business, want to pay me with a NDA to do something honest, and ethical… call me 😉
            but I keep my job.

            I would even be ready not to ask much for some jobs, like participating a test, a debate…

            Anyway there are much more important people to ask for consulting before me. The least of them all is not Franck.

            • artefact

              early 2011 a bunch of internet citizens found out about LENR+. There was also the fukushima disaster. Not enough, in Germany was a big media hype about Mr. Zu Guttenberg, ex member of the German parliament. Some people gathered on a wiki to check his doctor diploma work if he copied some things from others. They found out that there were many things wrong with it. The whole affair caused a lot of media attention. On google news at times there were some thousand news articles listed (nowadays they don’t show that number).
              As often I was a quicker than the media and followed the people behind that wiki before the media hype began (just out of curiosity). They communicated via a public IRC chat and were transparent.
              When the story hit the news it was fun to watch the many people from the press contacting them via mail and IRC. The people behind the wiki had a LOT to do to handle and answer the requests.
              Now if LENR gets the hype it deserves I can imagine that all public contact points like YOU, Frank, LENR scientists, the LENR companys, etc. will have a lot to do. Better get used to it 😉

              • Sanjeev

                They do, they contact Krivit unfortunately. Thats where they get the “truth” that CF is not real, so they prefer that source ignoring hundreds of very competent scientists, educated people, PhDs and researchers worldwide.
                I rarely see a mainstream reporter contact a lenr researcher, or visit their labs or offices or do any kind of fact checking before they write anything about it. Wikipedia and Krivit are mostly enough.
                In this huge world of 7B, we only have one S. Allan going and asking them questions and unfortunately since he also reports on rather odd stuff on his website, lenr gets clubbed with that oddness.

                • artefact

                  That will change imho if one company realy goes public and convinces them (with products). People will want to know what just hit them and the media will (hopefully) spot the light on the whole field.
                  Until then the next “best” contact point gets the cake.

    • Fortyniner

      For myself, the public revelation will be enough for the time being. But (as I and many others have said) that will depend on a working pilot plant being available for inspection and testing – nothing else will penetrate the public and scientific herd-minds. Once that’s in place, Cameron’s new nuclear crusade in the UK will be as good as finished, and I will be a very happy bunny.

      • ” nothing else will penetrate the public and scientific herd-minds”
        good point.
        hopefully the sheep have anothet characteristics: they follow

        so if few influencers are simply informed (being convinced is a sure consequence of being informed), and start to influence… more sheep will be convinced.

        the problem is that there is also the mindguards who like for gibbs and lewans, for Papaandreou, for CEA, the mindguard can shut off the influencers… but meanwhile some job will be done.

      • Iggy Dalrymple
        • Fortyniner

          🙂 .. a very acute observation.