Cherokee CEO Darden Comments on Chinese Industrial Heat Discussions


Thanks to ECW Reader US_Citizen71 for bringing attention to this article from the Triangle Business Journal which addresses the recent discussion here about the Rossi-Cherokee-China connection. The article’s author, Amanda Jones Hoyle, was able to get some comments from Cherokee CEO Tom Darden:

Cherokee CEO Tom Darden says that due to “strict confidentiality requirements,” he can’t address any of the specific technologies that Industrial Heat is supporting.

“But the company has investigated or supported several,” he says. “I am sure it will be a while before there are any results.”

Darden says none of the entities referenced in the E-Cat World blogs have invested in Industrial Heat. “Nor does Industrial Heat have any Chinese investors,” he says.

Darden does say that Industrial Heat LLC was one among many subjects he discussed with Chinese officials, and that his main purpose was to talk about some of the ideas presented by entrants into the Cherokee Challenge (a contest where applicants contend for seed money)

This isn’t really a confirmation or a denial of being involved with Rossi or the E-Cat — it’s more of a wait and see statement.


  • Martin Lawrence

    Hi Everyone, this is my first post so I will firstly apologize for just being a “lurker” for the past almost 2 years. I would also like to say that I have been impressed by not only the articles and admin staff but also the commentators comments and opinions.

    Although I have followed this with interest I have been skeptical as to whether Rossi has had what he has claimed to have in the past. The Levi report changed my opinion on this somewhat but this latest information has acted as a catalyst for a complete swing in my opinion to the point where I now find it hard to believe that the e-cat is not what Rossi has claimed.

    To clarify my current position I do believe that Rossi has been the problem for people like myself to fully engage in LENR, that is not to say that there is anything wrong with Rossi but he has had a tendency in the past to exaggerate (i.e the automated factory) that said I do see that Rossi was trying his best and is an inventor not a business man!

    In regards to the Cherokee connection, it is damn well clear that Cherokee are involved as they would have quickly denied any link to LENR if it wast true. I do however think its clear that they are not the main player. I think if Cherokee were the main Rossi partner then they would just come clean now as the cat is out of the bag. However I think from him saying he wouldn’t discuss the matter due to strict “confidentiality requirements” clearly points towards there being agreements in place for another entity or entities.

    This is just my opinion but call it an educated one ;-)

    Happy new year everyone and brace yourselves for what could be an interesting year.

    • Fortyniner

      Thanks for finally breaking ‘radio silence’ Martin – I hope there are many more ‘lurkers’ who will finally feel able to join in here. I agree with what you say. In particular that Rossi has been his own worst enemy at times, and many others (including myself) have come close to throwing in the towel when his claims seemed to be particularly exaggerated or misleading – as they clearly have been in earlier times.

      We do seem to be in a very different game now though – things have been moving for some time in confirmable ways that are way beyond ‘rossisays’, and seem to hang together to form a compelling picture, although still with many gaps. Hopefully some of these will be filled in over the coming months.

  • Sanjeev

    Very good article. It deserves a big applause and its own blog here on ECW.
    Except the first para about doom and gloom, the rest is well written.
    Recent references to ECW and its writers/commentators everywhere on the net once again show that Frank with this blog has risen way above the mainstream reporters.

  • Bob F

    The Chinese article specified nickel hydrogen energy, mentioned positive test results, and detailed the advantages over other sources of power. He should just come forward and state the obvious. This tip toeing around and excessive secrecy is ridiculous. Normally, I would be cheering such a company on, but their silence makes me resent them.

    • bachcole

      It’s OK, Bob F. Everything is going to be OK. This is too big to fret over differences like this. If Rossi wants to be secretive, just don’t worry about it. Defkalion and Brillouin are not so secretive, and who knows who might be coming on strong next.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I think that Rossi is more open than those others, definitely. He doesn’t reveal everything, but those others reveal almost nothing.

    • bitplayer

      No patent protection, so the only thing they can do is keep below the radar as long as possible. They don’t owe disclosure to anyone.

      • bachcole

        I believe that you have succinctly summed up the real reason for all of this secrecy.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yeah, in an ideal world Rossi (and others over the past quarter of a century) would have been able to get patents. Rossi is doing the best he can given the circumstances.

  • Mr. Moho

    Nice article for a mainstream news site. Good enough to be linked on Vortex-l as well, for greater reach. Can anybody do that?

  • Allan Shura

    What are they waiting for? A large contract for hundreds or thousands of e-cats? Whosoever bought a
    low temperature e-cat more than a year ago would have had it pay for itself already just in the lag time.
    Are they fearful that exact copies will appear in weeks or months on a large scale? Yet the e-cat owners
    are said to be well funded in a market where investment in energy of few millions is small fry.

  • Timar

    It’s really dead obvious: the fact that he didn’t deny an association with Rossi is a sure confirmation for that association. Very nice…

    • bachcole

      I thought that he put a great deal of creativity into his efforts hide the fact that he is promoting LENR+ to the Chinese.

  • Daniel Maris

    “But the company has investigated or supported several,” he says. “I am sure it will be a while before there are any results.”

    Interesting syntax, designed to confuse? Investigated Rossi, Defkalion, BLP and Brouillon and is now supporting Rossi?

    • Frost*

      I see that the same patent lawyers used by Brillouin have set up shop here too.

      Leading law and engineering firms join Research Triangle Cleantech Cluster

      Posted December 19, 2013 |
      Research Triangle Region, N.C. – Two of the region’s top professional services firms, Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP and McKim & Creed, have joined the Research Triangle Cleantech Cluster (RTCC).

      Kilpatrick Townsend, a law firm serving clients from 17 offices around the world, has a growing clean energy project development team with extensive experience in solar, wind, biomass and biofuels.

      McKim & Creed provides engineering, geomatics (surveying/mapping) and sustainable design services along with a corporate commitment to work that promotes clean water, safe communities, and sustainable and renewable energy solutions.

      http://www.researchtrianglecleantech.org/news/leading-law-and-engineering-firms-join-research-triangle-cleantech-cluster

    • bitplayer

      I read it as simple obfuscation in order to slow further investigation. From having tracked Silicon Valley tactics and antics for 40 years this fits right into the pattern.

      It’s possible they investigated multiple LENR opportunities, however, I’m having trouble conjuring a scenario where that all fits. Where is it in Cherokee’s background to say “Let’s go look at controversial and unproven energy sources; that will make our investors happy and fit right into our mission statement.”

      I think it’s more likely they met Rossi through their mutual waste cleanup backgrounds and the fact that the climate in North Carolina is closer to Italy’s than Vermont’s is, plus the fact that the Darden/Research Triangle connection gives him a huge “contact surface” of science and engineering leaders.

      It will be interesting to learn the exact circumstances of the introduction. Some sleuthing on who knew who might prove fruitful (or at least entertaining!) Who in the Rossi circle had contacts in the Research Triangle?

    • US_Citizen71

      March would be awhile. : )

  • US_Citizen71

    I think the reasoning behind going to China would be knowledge that a patent is not likely to be granted ever, either due to prior art or ???. If you do not have to worry about a patent being stolen then producing as many of an item as quick as you can is the the best way to profit from it before it is knocked off by competitors. Look at Crocs for a model.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Yes, it might fit with trade secret strategy.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Maybe……. Rossi and Partner see a growing opposition, or delaying tactics coming from “the powers that be” in the US, so they decided to hire Cherokee to approach China, the country most in need of LENR?

    • bitplayer

      kind of complicated..Occam’s Razor says simplest explanation is usually the best

  • Chris I

    He says they have no Chinese investors, but does he say anything about customers?

  • stefan

    This is an interesting give away to the supporters.

    * Andrea Rossi wip up quite a lot of heat on the intertubes and still Darden does not reject the argument that Rossi is involved. Ergo most probably there is a cooperation with Rossi.

    * Andrea Rossi has blogged about so many details like the partner been able to build a functioning E-Cat by themselves and know how it function or at least the formula. No way that he and his team have been fooled by Rossi.

    The conclusion for one opposing the E-Cat is that Darden is riding side by side with Rossi trying to bluff billions from some rich suckers. Which really doesn’t sound likely does it!!

    • Daniel Maris

      Excellent post!

  • georgehants

    Energy, Cold Fusion, & Antigravity: Znidarsic Science Books
    by Mr. Frank Znidarsic PE
    —–
    This theory was developed to explain the James A. Patterson Fuel Cell
    (US Patent 5494559). Here is a summary: The superconductor nanosphere,
    the pinned electric field, the collapsing matter wave, and the nuclear
    cluster speed itself were matched at 1 million meters per second create a
    channel of matching impedance whose resonant vibration shakes the grip
    of elastic discontinuity. Different velocities between the electron and
    its pinned electrical field creates an elastic bubble (discontinuity)
    which interacts and matches the speed of the mechanical waves within the
    nucleus to produce cold fusion.
    http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Cold-Fusion-Antigravity-Znidarsic/dp/1480270237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389124161&sr=8-1&keywords=frank+znidarsic

  • US_Citizen71

    The story has also made it on to CNN’s ireport via jousterusa.

    http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1072904

    There’s no kittens in that bag they’re Tribbles!

    • Fortyniner

      Feed ‘em!

    • deleo77

      Articles like this could really cause the lid to come off soon. I am thinking of all of the stories on Dean Kamen before the Segway came out and the hype associated with that. One story in Wired or another widely read site would start the ball rolling. The angle of the Chinese getting their hands on this technology is what will cause other journalists to start snooping.

  • Daniel Maris

    If you’re not involved with a company or person, you are under no obligation to keep your non-involvement secret.

    That’s not a denial, that’s an admission. But also an admission that the revelation came at the wrong time for a number of reasons.

    He could have said: “Industrial Heat or Cherokee have no involvement with Mr Rossi, the E Cat or Leonardo Corporation.” And that would be an end of it. Except – he couldn’t because that’s not the case.

    • artefact

      exactly.

    • Frost*

      I agree, Mr Darden should have had a PR strategy in place for this day. It was only a matter of time before the connection was found.

      The flow of information should now be carefully managed via an official channel to prevent speculation from spreading in a harmful manner.

    • bitplayer

      Makes me wonder if using the phrase “nickel energy” was a slip on the Chinese partner’s side that caught Cherokee/IH off-guard.

    • Mr. Moho

      Exactly. Why not clarify that for once and for all if it indeed is the case, given how inconvenient it can be to be associated with LENR and especially, Rossi?

  • bitplayer

    In one scenario this looks like a well-executed obfuscation/delaying tactic, diffusing the focus on eCat, saying nothing not truthful, and raising the shield of non-disclosure agreements. My admiration for the man only increases.

  • BroKeeper

    If you could go by what Tom Darden says, it appears Industrial Heat LLC was designed to “investigate or support” several technologies not just the
    E-Cat. So is Industrial Heat LLC just one of Cherokee’s subsidiary investment companies more than an industrial one? It appears so as many here suspected.

    • Fortyniner

      As others have said, this smells like an exercise in damage limitation. I don’t think we should take Mr Darden’s words too literally.

      • BroKeeper

        I understand.

  • Mr. Moho

    Darden says none of the entities referenced in the
    E-Cat World blogs have invested in Industrial Heat

    Entities? Is he referring to individuals as entities as well?

    Of course, if individuals also happen to own or manage other companies, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re investing in Industrial Heat LLC as representatives of those companies/entities.

    [...] Nor does Industrial Heat have any Chinese investors

    Technically speaking, Hady Hartanto and Daniel Pike aren’t “chinese investors”, they are Americans with Asian heritage/connections who happen to also manage companies in China. So what Darden says here is also technically correct, since none of the other 12 unknown Industrial Heat LLC investors have been named and we don’t know them. Well, I guess now we know there are no Chinese investors.

    I think Darden is playing tricks with the wording as to suggest that nothing interesting is going on. Pay attention!

    • ecatworld

      I’m not sure what entities he is referring to. The only person we have been able to identify as being an investor in Industrial heat is Daniel Pike. Maybe he meant the various Chinese governmental departments that have been mentioned here.

      • Mr. Moho

        http://www.bjxinghuyuan.com/news/html/?429.html

        This page also lists Hady Hartanto as Industrial Heat LLC investor and Technology Capital (China) Ltd co-founder. The latter is a company located in China of which I don’t know much about, although I found out it’s loosely related to the Sino-US Science and Technology Park project in Baoding through its co-founder Lu Ruifeng.

        Hady Hartanto is related to Steven Hartanto, who is a member of the Cherokee Challenge team.

        Just too many coincidences to believe that there’s “nothing to see, move on”.

        • Daniel Maris

          It could just be a definitional thing. For instance, Chinese investors might be investing in factories that will build the E Cat. They’re not investing in “the E Cat” – just manufacturing facilities. But they might in a wider sense be investing in a nickel energy project.

          • NT

            Daniel,
            “Chinese investors might be investing in factories that will build the E Cat.”
            The Apple computer business model in China, eh…

      • deleo77

        I do think Darden is referring to the Chinese entities that have been mentioned here. He could have refused to comment at all or to take the reporters call. I think Darden is specifically trying to address the concerns that Industrial Heat has Chinese money behind it. It almost makes you feel like he is reading the comments here that have concerns about Industrial Heat being owned by the Chinese. Perhaps he wants make sure he lowers concerns by American officials over all of this.

        • ecatworld

          Good point. It sounds like he is reading what is written here.

          • Mr. Moho

            I don’t think it’s the case. It looks like he is referring to the partial misrepresentation made by the article author Amanda Jones Hoyle of what was discussed/found out on e-catworld. Who knows what he got told when she contacted him.

            Rossi, in turn, has has been pitching the thermal heat energy technology to Chinese officials with help from Cherokee, according to the blog site E-Cat World.

            • ecatworld

              That could be the case, Mr. M. I don’t think Rossi has been doing any pitching to the Chinese lately.

        • bitplayer

          concur
          also, re “concerns by American officials”
          could also be keeping Cherokee/Industrial Heating PR tidy for a wide range of American and international audiences.

      • Daniel Maris

        Yes, that was my best guess. But as you make clear, E Cat World never claimed directly these were investors.

      • NT

        To your credit and also many here Frank, it appears these Rossi connected entities are watching closely the blogging here on your excellent site – that is a plus for you and all of us here – maybe one day they will break the news (first) with a statement here on E-Cat World?

        • artefact

          I hope they will at least tell us before it starts
          to prepare the “told you so” for some friends who were not willing to accept that something can be true even the mainstream media does not report it :)

      • mwerner

        In the comments sections of E-Catworld blog entries, often the discussion turns to who might be Rossi’s partner. Often entities such as GE, Carrier, Siemens, et. al. are discussed. While it seems the direct partner has been discovered, not all of the investors behind the partner have. It might be a method for a larger entity to dip their toe in the water without being directly involved, though Mr. Darden seems to indicate that the active readership here has been off target.

        • bachcole

          I have done to my wife so often what Mr. Darden has done to us in his most recent communique. And I don’t mean screw us. I mean tell us a limited truth designed so as to deceive us. I so very much appreciate what Mr. Darden is doing, and I would hug him for it. I would stand up for him when he entered the room. But the man, I believe, is deliberately leading us astray, temporarily. This is how I see it, today, right now.

    • Frost*

      I see it didn’t take MaryYugo long to spout his usual drivel. Does George ever sleep?