Rossi on Who Can be an E-Cat Customer

The new revelations from Andrea Rossi about the destructive tests and the temperatures the E-Cat can reach in runaway reactions have raised questions about the safety of these systems.


Andrea Rossi has just addressed this issue in the response to a question about whether E-Cat reactors might be dangerous if it fell into the hands of terrorists.

Rossi responded:

You are right, the E-Cat, if voluntarily improperly managed, mainly by expert enemies,can be dangerous. This is the reason why the safety certification for a domestic E-Cat, usable from anybody, is very difficult to obtain. This is also the reason why we can sell the plants only to industries that can give us all the guarantees of safety. Our Customers have to make our plants operated only by operators certified by us, after a specific education through the manuals and after a period of instructions whose main part is aimed to safety. Our Customers must have already a culture and an organization aimed to safety and they will be liable for the respect of all the safety instructions supplied by us. This is also the reason for which we sell our plants only to industries that have a consolidated history of energy utilization at least in the amounts produced by our plants, so that we deal with persons already expert of the field, even if not of the E-Cat. We also need Customers with a financial structure enough solid to guarantee us they can sustain properly all the safety and security issues implied and to guarantee a security able to make sure that the technology does not go in wrong hands.

With all these restrictions in place, it seems like it is going to be quite difficult to become an early adopter of E-Cat technology. Not just anyone is going to be able to purchase an E-Cat plant. I think is going to be a big trust factor involved in being selected as an E-Cat user and I expect Rossi and Co. will be very careful in vetting applicants — which may mean it will take some time for E-Cats to become widely used.

We also have yet to find out what the response of government regulatory bodies once the E-Cat becomes recognized as a legitimate and superior source of energy. The possibility of high temperature meltdowns might be something that will raise concerns among regulators. I hope, however, that the certifications already obtained by Rossi and Co. will be sufficient to satisfy any governmental body that the discovery is being handled adequately.


  • bachcole

    I don’t feel the least bit panicky.

  • Omega Z

    tamtom
    Walk into someone’s home when the Power is out.
    Everyone is crowded together with blankets wrapped around them.
    You ask, Why didn’t you use the burners on the Gas Stove to keep warm?
    Can’t. It’s Electronic Ignition. It wont lite.
    Pull out your lighter, turn on the burner & lite it.
    Their Eyes pop. Didn’t know you cold do that.

    People injure themselves all the time, because they no longer have experience at anything. They have become accustomed to point click, Automation, Etc… Everything being done for them. They no longer develop their common sense. Not really their fault. Their victims of modern society.

    They try to use oil filled Turkey deep fryers in their homes & burn them down. Run Emergency Generators in their homes & suffer or die from carbon monoxide poisoning. They try to heat their homes with charcoal grills when the power is out.

    I know some so-called contractors who are great believers in air barriers. You don’t need insulation, “they say”. Just need to stop the airflow. They have no clue of thermal conduction & condensation that rot the walls out.

    They get away with this because the Consumers themselves are clueless, And tho you make light of this with your weed-whackers, Etc.., I see the time coming real soon when Certification will be required for even the simplest of things.

    Sadly, These Regulations & certifications will be written into law by the Politicians who are just as clueless as the average consumer. It’ll be quite the mess.

    Ever notice some of the ridiculous warning labels placed on everything. Like don’t put your hand in the garbage disposal. There is a reason for that. Somebody did it.

    But hey. People know all bout Kardashians, Bieber, & Gaga. The Important things in life.

    • Fortyniner

      Spot on. It’s very scary, and there’s worse to come.

      My wife and daughter both teach 13-18 year olds in average catchment areas. From what they tell me, the general ignorance of their ‘students’ is probably on a par with that of the average medieval serf. With just a few exceptions (1 or 2 per class of 30+), they almost literally know nothing outside of pop culture and their supposed ‘rights’. I guess the exceptions will be the ones running the world in a decade.

  • Fortyniner

    Yes, that is certainly the case – if the door safety cutouts were over-ridden, a microwave oven could be deadly. Virtually any appliance can be potentially dangerous in malign or incompetant hands – pressure cookers, deep fat fryers, gas ovens, whatever.

    If safety of CF devices does become an issue, any purported dangers will probably have been exaggerated in order to justify keeping CF in the ‘right’ hands.

  • BroKeeper

    (test)

  • BroKeeper

    The heavy element fission bomb was a blasting cap for the MasterBlaster fusion hydrogen bomb.

  • BroKeeper

    The heavy element fission bomb was a blasting cap for the MasterBlaster fusion hydrogen bomb.

  • BroKeeper

    The heavy element fission bomb was a blasting cap for the Master Blaster fusion hydrogen bomb.

  • BroKeeper

    The heavy element fission bomb was a blasting cap for the MasterBlaster fusion hydrogen bomb.

  • bachcole

    And the acoustic Stirling engine is also a scam because it is not being sold in the local home depot.

    Given that LENR+ is “nuclear”, and given that it is utterly and completely new, never before in the history of the world, I am not the least bit surprised that they have all kinds of safety and reliability issues to resolve.

    • BroKeeper

      ‘unlearning’ of preconceived ideas about ‘NUCLEAR’ will be the major hurdle.

      • Peter Shwartz

        …and “cold fusion” is a better alternative than “nuclear”? spare me days, neither concept, in an altruistic sense, are appropriate. How about a more complicated and totally unrecognizable bit of terminology like the “Rossi Effect” ? Live by the sword …

        • BroKeeper

          OK :)

      • Omega Z

        Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging Known as MRI
        Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Known as LER

        Lose the N-uclear

        Or just call it the Rossi Effect.

        • bachcole

          Let’s work on this. Who better than those who think about this all day long.

          Non-chemical catalyzed energy generation: NCCEG nay

          Catalyzed energy generation: CEG better

          Electron capture energy: ECE better

          We have no freaking idea energy: WHNFIE (:->)

          Perhaps we need to wait until we know how it works.

          • Fortyniner

            Small hot thing (SHT) technology.

            • bachcole

              This is an obvious problem with that: Small Hot Industrial Thing. (:->)

    • Buck

      Roger, I think you are right on target.

      It will take time for this revolutionary technology to become accepted by even a bare majority of the people. Until then, it just makes sense to do what you are pointing out.

    • Fortyniner

      That word ‘nuclear’ has gotta go. ‘Cold fusion’ is much better.

  • Harry

    We’re assuming that the “old” energy industry based on oil will be wiped out in short time, as the LENR technology will be diffused.

    My
    concerns are what if the oil producers (losing their game in the long
    period) will cut the oil price to half or even less, just to salvage
    what they can… ? Traditional oli/gas energy will still be available
    and cheap, if you don’t take the environmental costs in account.

    I’m not sure that transition to LENR will happen overnight…

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      I don’t think the eCat will affect the demand for oil for a long time. Not until the eCat is used for transportation will it effect the demand for natural gas, coal, and nuclear.

  • barty

    S. Korean manufacturing company signs license with Brillouin (LENR technology)

    http://pesn.com/2013/12/30/9602416_S-Korean-manufacturing-company_signs_license_with_Brillouin-LENR-technology/

    • artefact

      Brillouin states that with their tech there can be no runaway reaction. That would be a big advantage.
      Hope to see the pictures of the reactors soon.

      • BroKeeper

        In my understanding there is no E-Cat runaway reaction either only if purposely allowed for max power tests.

        • guga

          It does or did run away at high settings. That even happened in the first round of the Arxiv published third party test.

          • BroKeeper

            I am assuming they have preventions set up by now for those scenarios. Thanks.

  • Sean

    Well on reading all this my new year hope for a home ECAT is disappointedly dashed. But with our safety in mind, I think it is for the best. The centralised / retrofitted LENR power plant guarded by ethical professionals is probably the best direction. It will give us safe environmentally friendly energy. It just proves that LENR can be made extremely powerful when scaled up. The only negative is we will have to all work long hours to afford the electricity at £97.50 per megawatt that will be needed to heat our homes and power our cars. That is because power organizations like OPEC have agreed value pricing. When Oil / gas goes, the LENR plants will have even more of a monopoly. Governments also benefit as they slap on a little tax for themselves. Hopefully we can breath cleaner air and help poorer developing nations just the same.

    • bachcole

      Sean, whenever my wife gets depressed, I give her fish oil and/or flower remedies. That has always worked. Her entire outlook on life changes from dark to light.

      • Sean

        I understand what you are saying. Perhaps I misunderstood this article. I think it best now that I curb my reading about ECAT,s instead I will follow Futuring World as it is more light for me.

        • malkom700

          Only peace, but domestic ECAT is available in the form of Brillouin LENR boilers. Read article from the future.

          • Sean

            Thank you Malkom700. I am looking for it. I did see an article showing an electrical impulse to hydrogen thence to helium giving energy or something. I just hope that there are more players out there. I liked Pons & Flieshman when the fully divulged their invention and anybody could build one to experiment with. True though the results were small, but nobody at the time thought of nickel and hydrogen gas. I am sure those two would have told us all the facts for humanity. Sir Frank Whittle let everybody know the particulars about his invention. From that, many hobbyist today can build their own jet engines. Lucky we have had warm but stormy weather this month in the UK. 24,000 people died in the cold last winter in the U.K. My friends are huddled up to keep warm in Bognor Regis, West Sussex. One friend has put in a wood burning stove. They cannot afford the Gas or Electricity. So If I sounded negative to Bachcole it is for real reasons. We Need ECATS.

  • Table

    Is there any other evidence that Cherokee Fund purchased the E-Cat and have created Industrial Heat Llc to develop it

  • Buck

    ECN ??

    Are you willing to share the link?

  • ecatworld

    Thanks, deleo77 — I have been trying to discover the connection and it seems to be through Fulvio Fabiani, an engineer with Leonardo Corp.

    On Linkedin he lists that he is currently working at Industrial Heat LLC (along with Leonardo Corp, and REFC, LLC)

    Here is a document offering securities for Industrial Heat LLC

    http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1584856/000158485613000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

    The document Thomas Darden and JC Vaughn as ‘related persons’, both of whom are at Cherokee Investments. Darden is CEO, and Vaughn is Senior Analyst.

    • ecatworld

      http://www.whogotfunded.com/deals/195917-industrial-heat-llc

      Industrial Heat Llc raised $11,555,050 on August 23rd, 2013.

      Thomas Darden (Director, Executive Officer, Promoter)
      J. Vaughn (Executive Officer, Promoter)

      • artefact

        Rossi licenced the hotcat but he kept the warm e-cat I think. Could be that Industrial Heat LLC is for the part of the warm e-cat.

        • Fortyniner

          Or they could be acting on behalf of the R&D partner to fund initial manufacture of reactors, purchase and conversion of a defunct generating plant or similar. There is no indication that this specialist investment company would be in a position to develop the hot cat as described, nor is it likely to meet Rossi’s ‘ethical’ criteria, but it might well be in a position to drum up funding and to find a site for a pilot scheme.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Now wait just one minute. We have been told for three years the ecat is inherently safe. I am not buying that it is suddenly becoming unsafe and a possible terrorist weapon.

    • Buck

      BK, I agree with you.

      I am guessing that as a time gets closer to implementing an industrial LENR device, Rossi and Partners begin to use language that reflects and positions LENR for their ultimate best target market: retrofitting EPA non-compliant power plants.

      There is a long list of benefits, but the benefit answering your point is that at a power plant security can be very tight to control for IP theft. The additional benefits include:

      1. Controlled development of technology in live environment with very restricted access
      2. Large quantity of abandoned power plants will be showing up over the next two years
      3. Infrastructure for power generation and distribution already in place requiring only the design and installation of a LENR device to fire/heat the boilers
      4. Provides opportunity for Govt’ Regulators/Investigators to easily monitor revolutionary technology and gain a sense of comfort and delivered benefits of this technology at a limited number of locations
      5. Operating culture of power plants already points to Rossi’s stated needs: safety protocols in dealing with complex potentially dangerous equipment by technically proficient employees with strong culture of plant security
      6. Gov’t Safety Certification is easier and quicker in an industrial environment versus consumer
      7. Power distribution contracts likely already in place
      8. Rossi & Partner can conserve resources (cash, trained technical personnel, management time, etc.) when there is a limited number of active customer sites
      9. Aligns with US Executive Branch directive to support retrofitting industrial settings with CHP units.
      10. Businesses are command and control environments: employees have to live with the protocols of implemented revolutionary technology assuming safety concerns are addressed.
      11. An isolated and metered introduction of LENR technology is less apt to trigger credible anti-LENR arguments and forces over time compared to a full-frontal approach with the consumer.

      • Fortyniner

        Agreed. Rossi’s sudden effusiveness – introducing an element of danger – is exactly what is required to discourage any suggestion of private use, and possibly even of local (as opposed to centralised) use. The stage is being set for conversion of existing high-security installations, and that might conceivably include even nuclear sites where reactors have not yet been commissioned, where they can be safely removed, or where there is space for separate installations (I’m guessing that the nuclear industry may want a great big chunk of this pie).

        I think this was always inevitable, but it is depressing to see it apparently in motion. Some time ago (years I think) I speculated that at some point the conversion of fossil-fuel (and maybe even nuclear) power stations might be accompanied by propaganda about ‘saving the planet’, with the intention of shifting the cost of conversion to consumers and/or taxpayers, rather than the energy cartels who will directly benefit. Whether this actually turns out to be the case or not, I suspect that the primary beneficiaries of CF will be the cartels, and the only difference from the POV of the oiks will be the warm glow of knowing that using their toaster is no longer going to cause massive environmental collapse (cue next big scare).

        • georgehants

          Morning Peter, does anybody know if the technology of Cold Fusion is in any way going to be protectable by patents or will their always be a way around them.
          If there are many paths to the effect then the World is free to push on in many areas by many people.
          Hopefully that will bypass many of the PTB’s attempts to take from the poor and give to the capitalistic rich.

          • Fortyniner

            Morning George.

            IMHO, probably not, hence the concerns about security (as well as genuine safety concerns I imagine.

          • BroKeeper

            I agree, this is still a very infant technology with much unknowns. My concern is there may be a way to excite the catalyst by some other means that will bypass the high temperatures required to overcome coulomb forces that ignite all the hydrogen at once. Even the LENR physicists are in disagreement how it all works. But if there is no such worries then I am sure differing excitations will be welcomed in a capitalistic society with competition bringing the costs to its minimum – a scenario we all hope occurs. The proliferation of this LENR technology is now so globally disbursed that I don’t foresee any one PTB to have ability of control the market.

            • Bernie Koppenhofer

              True, unless there is one company far enough ahead to be able to “kind of” corner the market and thus delay implementation. Rossi and partner could be in that position.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            It appears to me all the major players have given up on patents as a way to protect their IP.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          I agree!

        • Buck

          49r,
          In light of today’s new information, it seems like they will have their hands full even if they only look at retrofitting 50% of the world’s power plants . . . it is something which will allow the citizenry to catch up and become comfortable with a “Buck Rogers – Star Trek” type of technology.

          US, S. Korea, China, Scandinavia, Japan, Europe . . . .

          1MW out of a tube the size of your forearm . . . .

          • bachcole

            And when people realize that the “experts” were oh so wrong with regard to cold fusion, this will help them understand that they may also be wrong about a bunch of other things.

            • Buck

              I would hope so.

          • Fortyniner

            No one corporation could do it alone, even given decades. Once knowledge of the technology spreads (something that may be artificially delayed for a considerable time) the pressure of demand will build logarithmically, and sooner or later a significant proportion of the planet’s manufacturing capacity must become involved. I have no idea how or when that will come about, but given the extent of potential losses and gains to various segments of TPTB I suspect it will be messy.

            • Buck

              I agree, I think it will be messy . . . I can’t begin to imagine how the cultures of the world will digest the full implications of LENR, very inexpensive non-polluting energy, and a total shift in all industries over the next 100 years.

              Where are Heinlein, Arthur C. Clarke, Larry Niven, Ursula Le Guin, Issac Asimov, Poul Anderson, Philip K Dick, etc when you need them?

              • bachcole

                They are wallowing in the old paradigms.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Buck, I generally agree with you, but Rossi and partner, according to Rossi, are commited to providing this new invention to benefit society, with their IP being important but not all important. For me, by raising the safety issue as a way to contain the deployment, is a bit ingenious.

        • Buck

          Bernie, I’m with you. IMO, Rossi & Partner are practical people who recognize that limited resources (time, money, people) force one to prioritize and narrow down the choices. I bet they will continue R&D on both the E-Cat and the Hot-Cat while they rack up the revenues. The World is a very large market for retrofitting 50% of the power plants.

    • bachcole

      Why not? Since when has ANYONE been an expert on the future of ANYTHING, particularly something never before seen in the HISTORY of the world?

    • Private Citizen

      It would seem trivial to design a very safe, low-temperature domestic model, similar in temperature to the early prototypes but more efficient. Making the unit un-hackable into a super weapon also seems a trivial engineering possibility, even without knowing specifics as to the technology.

      If Rossi is thinking that the technology itself can remain secret to “expert enemies” once mass produced and public (or even now) he’s dreaming.