Will Nickel Powder Become a Regulated Commodity?

Here’s a question posed by a reader here today, that I thought I’d throw out to readers today. JDM asked, “how long do you think it would be before nickel powder becomes a regulated commodity?”

I suppose the question is trying to draw a comparison between traditional nuclear fuels and the new LENR fuels. There are national and international regulations and regulatory bodies that cover the mining, handling and transportation of radioactive fuels like uranium, plutonium and thorium for obvious safety and security reasons.

If nickel powder becomes the fuel of choice for widespread, would there be any reason for special regulatory bodies to control its sale and use? A safety fact sheet from multinational mining company Vale gives some information about safety precautions that should be taken with nickel powder. It is considered to be dangerous under some circumstances (risks of explosions or other chemical reactions), but is not listed as being especially toxic.

I suppose that some regulators may, however, become interested in nickel powder if they recognize the potential it has as a fuel source. If nickel-hydrogen LENR is widely recognized as really being “off the charts” in terms of power density, how do you think it might be handled by governments? Is it too dangerous (physically and/or politically) to be allowed in the hands of the average tinkerer?

  • Miles

    My question is – Should I still consider buying Solar Panels in 2014? I’ve been following this thread in ages, my thoughts are I should hold out until late 2014 before making a decision. Any thoughts on this?

    • Omega Z

      If your wondering if an E-cat Home Generator is around the Corner. NO.
      It’s at least 5 or 10 years away. At least anything cost effective.
      But then, Solar panels aren’t cost effective either for most people depending on you geography.

    • Fortyniner

      As OZ says, don’t hold your breath waiting for domestic CF boilers. My own guess would be 10 years minimum, possibly 20. In the meantime, a good cost-saving compromise might be to fit solar water heating panels instead of PVs. I have 6m2 of simple ‘drainback’ absorber panels on the roof, which supply all my hot water for 6 months of the year and offset other heating for another couple of months – that’s quite a saving in gas. Maintenance is a few minutes a year checking levels, and on one occasion unplugging and replacing a 12V pump.

  • Casey

    From J-O-N-P

    Curiosone asked
    “http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=833&cpage=2” l “comment-885854”
    Dr Rossi:
    How much have changed the E-Cats in these last months thanks to the R&D in the USA?
    Walter Gentili

    Andrea Rossi
    A lot. We made a very hard work, I would say about 10,000 hours of man hours work, made by scientists, engineers and workers. I am understanding what does mean to play in the Majors. When I need something that exists I get it in hours, if not minutes, when I need something that does not exist we invent it and make it in days, if not hours. I never have worked so well in my life, honestly.

    Warm Regards,


    • Fortyniner

      In *very* broad terms then and taking AR’s comments completely at face value, if we assume 40 hour working weeks and ‘these last months’ to mean 3 months, then that is 480 hours per engineer/scientist/technician, i.e., perhaps 20-22 people in Rossi’s team. Even if that’s an underestimate, that would make it a surprisingly small effort to my mind – at one time or another I’ve worked within several larger R&D groups working on far less important issues.

  • GreenWin

    Hi Frank. FYI, just posted two items here on the Nirvana Energy product – both deleted after bout 5min… WUWT??

    • ecatworld

      Sorry, GW, I don’t remember seeing them, sure I didn’t delete them.

      • GreenWin

        They reappeared on the Always Open thread. THX Frank.

      • GreenWin

        And both Nirvana comments have been deleted again. I suppose this has to do with NASA and their secrecy obsession. The story is a GOOD one and people should know about the rather astonishing thermo-acoustic Stirling Nirvana is marketing. It IS a significant breakthrough. http://www.nirvana-es.com/

        • Chris the 2nd

          I need a new boiler, how do I get one?

  • Chris I

    Of course not!

  • Chris the 2nd

    LENR talked about briefly on the Space Show again this week

    55 minutes into this episode

    Statement is that NASA have replicated


    • Pekka Janhunen

      Not bad, not bad at all. Judging from his CV, Bruce Pittman is a senior guy at Nasa Ames, responsible for commercial space portal, and he seems to have no reservations about the validity of LENR or Rossi. He knows about the Elforsk report and all.

      • GreenWin

        NASA GRC’s thermo-acoustic Stirling patent is appearing in a commercial micro-CHP from startup Nirvana Energy Systems. This is an excellent device to match LENR heat. Rossi has had conversations with NASA GRC in the past. Could NASA be entering the New Fire market – quietly?

        • Chris the 2nd

          If NASA thinks there is something in it there is no reason not to, it is a potential solution to a few issues they face with deep space and permanent bases on other planets. How to heat & how to power when Solar isn’t possible and Plutonium isn’t an option while using a fuel that is abundant, cheap and can be manufactured on site.

    • GreenWin

      Chris2, the link is to an MP3 that is only 35′ minutes. Do they edit their interviews? Can you provide the Bruce Pittman LENR quote??

      • Chris the 2nd

        It is 88 minutes long, try reloading the page perhaps the download failed 🙂

        • GreenWin

          Must be another link somewhere. This one is 38:55″ http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/2144-BWB-2013-12-16.mp3

          • Chris the 2nd

            Just sorting you out with another link 🙂

          • Chris the 2nd

            http://sdrv.ms/1hm7PI2 Checked this before uploading to my skydrive, 1hr30 minutes. He starts talking about LENR at exactly 57:17

            Basically says, LENR is something we should seriously look at, Langley are working on it, they’ve replicated, then he talks about the Elforsk report and Rossi. Not even a hint of scepticism.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        In Linux I had a similar problem with Audacious player. But with mplayer it worked correctly.

        • GreenWin

          The link on the SpaceShow site was truncated to 38 minutes for some reason. Possibly the work of ROMunists… THANKS for the accurate transcript Pekka!!

    • Pekka Janhunen

      David Livingston interviewing Bruce Pittman on The Space Show on
      December 16, 2013, transcript of LENR-related parts:


      (Pittman) One other thing that I wanted to mention that I think is not
      getting as much attention, but I really think that it’s worth taking a
      look at, and that’s this LENR, these low energy nuclear reactions.

      (Livingston) Aha..

      (Pittman) There’s actually some folks that are studying this back at
      NASA Langley, and I have seen enough data. I don’t think that it’s
      really well understood, but it has been duplicated. I just heard that
      there was some stuff that both Mitsubishi and Toyota are working
      on. Some of these kinds of technologies… not frivolous companies.

      (Livingston) No, absolutely not. I’ve done shows on LENR with… whose
      the chief scientist at Langley… having a senior moment again…

      (Pittman) Yeah I know who you are talking about… And he’s not a soft
      touch, he pretty much is a very, you know, hardheaded guy.

      (Livingston) No and also every January I usually do an update with a
      guy from Los Alamos who’s retired and has his own lab and who’s pretty
      well known in the field, too, and I’m blanking on his name as
      well. But yeah, there seems to be some real progress being made,
      although I guess the field is full or skeptics still, right?

      (Pittman) Yeah but the neat thing there is [that] they are actually
      there, they are actually able to demonstrate some results. This guy,
      Rossi, just brought in some [engineers?] and guys to evaluate his
      technology, and they brought in like a half a dozen scientists, and
      they just published a report, and they said: we can’t see any other
      explanation, both for the excess heat that was generated over a period
      of days. And the other one is transmutation, that you are basically
      turning nickel into copper, so clearly something nuclear is happening

      (Livingston) We have a caller on the phone and we’ll take that caller
      now. I’ll go over to fresh my memory on my two senior breaks. Hi,
      caller, welcome to the show, who are you, please?

      (…Unrelated discussion on space matters…)


      (Livingston) My two names on my senior moments for LENR was Dr. Ed
      Storms and Dennis Bushnell from Langley.

      (Pittman) Yeah.

      (Livingston) So, I would love to see something like that really take
      off and to be confirmed as commercial, but… everybody keeps waiting,

      (Pittman) Well, the good news is, with those kinds of things, the
      dollar they were talking about to do these experiments is much less
      than what you would need for some of these other hot fusion kinds of
      things where you may need millions or tens of millions or hundreds of
      millions, in some cases billions of dollars. So here we are talking
      about maybe a few million dollars and you can do some pretty
      sophisticated kind of activities there. What a lot of this is coming
      down to is the undestanding of the process. It’s one thing to get
      anomalous heat, but when you try to duplicate it, can you, and that’s
      the exciting to me that, I heard, in Japan at least, Toyota was able
      to duplicate their results that had been gotten from another Japanese
      company. And so that third party replication where, you know, somebody
      does something and then somebody totally not associated with that is
      able to duplicate their results. That was always the Achilles heel of
      Pons and Fleischmann, it’s that they couldn’t do that, these other
      people tried to do what they had done and it wouldn’t work, so that’s
      when all these claims … well, “these guys are just trying to pull
      one over or pass one over on everybody”, that they kind of came
      up. Now they are starting to see this ability to replicate these
      results. And there have been hundreds of these experiments that have
      been done over those 25 years. For a long time this was pretty much
      underground and nobody was really talking about it. But there have
      been really hundreds of these experiments having been done and a
      significant fraction of them may have seen very consistent anomalous
      heat, in some cases more and in some cases less. I think, one thing
      that’s pretty clear, though, is that we really don’t understand what
      exactly is going on there and how do you control the knobs, what are
      the key variables that control the amount of excess heat that’s
      produced there. And another thing that has been kind of a problem is
      that nobody has got a really good theoretical model. Widom-Larsen is
      one of the models that a lot of people are coming up with, but a lot
      of people are saying: no, that’s not that really that good of a model
      and all that. Blacklight Power guys have come up with a model of
      calling it hydrinos, the subzero[?] energy kind of thing for hydrogen,
      and they said they can produce excess with these kinds of things. I
      just find is fascinating, and I have no idea, I mean, I’m not a
      physicist, I’m just a mechanical engineer, whose’s in kind of way over
      his head with these things. But I do find it fascinating, and when you
      look at it from the system engineering point of view, regardless of
      exactly how this works, if you can do this, and with a relatively
      small, compact form you can produce a significant amount of excess
      heat, then you can take that and use it to do some really interesting
      things. And especially when it comes to space, this could be truly a
      game changer.

      (Livingston) You have another question by … (question about
      aneutronic hot fusion where they criticise why all moneys goes to
      tokamaks and only little to alternatives…)

  • theBuckWheat

    Regulators will have to invent a new basis for regulating something that is substantially harmless. Recall that until recently an official coin was made almost entirely of this metal and millions are still in private hands.

    It is a telling statement of life in the “land of the free” to even pose such a question. It is yet one more proof that it is time to call a Convention to Consider Amendments to The Constitution so we can restore liberty by redesigning the Leviathan federal regulatory state and refocusing its priorities, and cutting its size drastically.

  • Omega Z

    The Nickle powder that Rossi uses is Toxic.
    Rossi wears a mask when handling.

    Will it be Regulated? YES!
    As soon as the 1st person tries to refill his LENR device & dies from it, Regulations will quickly be applied.

    NOTE: Rossi has already said as much. Only Licensed/Trained Technicians will be allowed to service the E-cats…

    • Omega Z

      I would also add that Rossi Nickle is enhanced. Not just any nickle will get the Job Done.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Ideally, it should be handled in a fume hood.

      • Omega Z

        All that was said was a Mask. No elaboration on details.
        You could work without one but with serious risks.

    • theBuckWheat

      Trained? certainly. Licensed? under what existing or proposed regulation? That they have a driver’s license? Maybe we should mention that above all, they have ample liability insurance. On that issue rests the future of any commercial LENR effort.

      • Fortyniner

        Perhaps OZ simply means licensed by Rossi’s bosses, i.e., franchised.

        • GreenWin

          Or hazmat license – e.g. pest control or HVAC specialists. Pests and parasites require dangerous toxins to kill em.

          • Omega Z

            Nail on the Head GreenWin.

            I Imagine E-cat/LENR Technology will fall under HVAC Regs(Commercial, Residential, Industrial) & due to the Toxic Nano Nickle Powder, possibly Hazmat as well.
            I’m Covered. Been there done that.

            • Omega Z

              Working with Refrigerants with out a License can result in a $25K Fine per incident.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    They have no qualms about spraying million of tons of alumina and barium oxide into the atmosphere but they’d probably regulate nickel if it would enable them to rig the LENR market.




    • Fortyniner

      Ongoing worldwide ‘SAG/SRM’ does rather make a mockery of restrictions aimed at reducing release of environmental toxins. It’s difficult to determine whether the politicians behind such restrictions are wilfully blind or cynical beyond belief.


      • Alan DeAngelis

        I’m not sure but I think the GMO crops make more citric acid
        than non-GMO crops. The citric acid reacts with alumina to make aluminum


        • Fortyniner

          Yes – the same will probably apply to any organic acids that are commonly ingested such as acetic, lactic, malic, ascorbic acids etc. The higher the blood pH, i.e., the more alkaline it is, the less aluminium will be dissolved from lung deposits or contaminated food. However much of the aluminium dispersed from aircraft is nanoparticulate, possibly in order to maximise the time to settlement, and this material will not only be absorbed easily, including through the skin, but will also penetrate the blood/brain barrier.

          Regarding GMO, you may be thinking of Monsanto’s aluminium-resistant GMO seed lines:



          Heightened soil aluminium levels prevent proper uptake of micronutrients by plant rootlets, causing crop yields to fall, and in some cases to fail altogether. Increased aluminium also seems to be a factor in the various tree die-backs ocurring in many parts of the world.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, go into Google Patents and search “aluminum tolerant

            • Fortyniner

              Interestingly the form of fluoride (silicofluorides) added to the drinking water supply in areas that don’t make enough noise about it, is exactly the same stuff that is used to slow-kill cockroaches by many exterminators.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            The most efficient way to kill social insects (ants, termites) is NOT with a fast acting poison but with a SLOW acting insecticide that is added to food (a bait) that individual insects will collect and then share with the other members of the colony. Then eventually the whole colony collapses. How would creatures that see us as vermin most efficiently get rid of us?

            Bon Appétit

  • Christopher Calder

    Aluminum powder, titanium powder, and zinc powder are all potentially explosive and dangerous to inhale. Most of us touch nickel in metallic form every day with no ill effects. Even whole wheat flour and baby powder are exposive if you give them enough air and light a match. There is nothing unusual about nickel in that regard.

  • Roger Bird

    The lesson here is that if you make good comments you become rich and famous, or at least famous. I completely missed the point about nano-powdered nickel being different from regular ol’ nickel.

    I think that government will seek to expand its power, so it will look for any excuse to do so.

    • Donk970

      No, corporations will seek to get control of this new market so that they can make huge profits. They will do this by paying the government to create regulations that favor them. It’s important to remember that our government is a wholly owned subsidiary of corporate America.

  • AstralProjectee

    There would be no need to regulate. But perhaps make sure we have our own sources of this mineral. Least in the future, in a time of war, we have not stable supplies. Though we do have lots of allies.

  • blanco69

    If you follow the Brillouin model then it’s the Hydrogen that is the fuel and the nickel powder provides the environment for the reaction. So…

  • Adam Lepczak

    Too stable and too common. Almost impossible to justify regulation. Also,

  • Alain Samoun

    Save your Nickels!

    The 5 cents US coin contains 75% copper and 25% nickel.

  • the powder is dangerous, but like any powder is… some explode. some poison. some cause asthma… some does many…

    the nickel used by LENR would be negligible, unlike is the lithium, the rare earth, the cobalt, which are used by mainstream “new energy solutions”…

    My vision from France, which have a pathological tendency to regulate all, especially before it start to be used :

    – research will be forbidden in france, because it is dangerous… it is dangerous because we have no certainty it is not dangerous. (same method as mary yugo applied to pathological precaution)
    – any usage in civil building will be forbidden
    – it will be allowed for only licenced companies with ISO9001 and more tha 10k employes…Areva, Alstom, GE, Westinghouse,Siemens….

    then the head of the president will be cut, and energy will be free like speech in France.

    • Fortyniner

      All agreed. ‘Safety’ grounds can be used to justify almost anything – and will be in this case. Repressive governments such as those of France, UK, etc. (in fact, most of Europe) have no problem at all in ‘regulating’ substances that just might be involved in something they want to prevent, such as drug precursers and chemicals that might be used in the manufacture of explosives. For instance, over the last 6 months local chemists have refused to sell me bulk vitamin C (apparently it is used to ‘cut’ certain drugs and is also forbidden under the terms of an EU ‘directive’ on food supplements) and high strength hydrogen peroxide for sterilising beermaking equipment (I had to buy a bulky and heavy dilute form). On one occasion I was even given a grilling over why I wanted a modest quantity of potassium permanganate (it was for staining new oak timber during a building project). If I’d wanted potassium nitrate or chlorate for some reason, I’d probably have been quietly reported to someone – if I haven’t been already.

      Where outright restrictions are not used it is highly probable that ID requirements will be introduced for purchase of certain forms of nickel so that ‘suspects’ would identify themselves and could be investigated. Many people seem to underestimate both the influence of big money over the politicians who introduce new state regulations, and the power of the modern state to enforce them.

    • X-X

      France has good traditions 🙂
      There might be still some machines standing in the museums 🙂

  • JDM

    Not to mention the commodity brokers wanting a piece of the action thru gov’t regulation by the pols in their pockets…