LENR Cars’ Stirling Engine Proposal

Shortly after LENR Cars launched their campaign to win a chance to pitch at a Future Energy event yesterday, CEO Nicolas Chauvin sent a proposal to Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics which gives some indication of the company’s business model. Here’s the message he posted:

Dear Andrea Rossi,

We met last year in September at a congress in Zürich. I was there with Sterling Allan.

We discussed shortly about a Stirling generator developed by a partner of us in Asia. Now this Stirling generator is ready for mass production (30K units/year) with a very interesting manufacturing cost.

We would like to know if you are still interested in a test to combine this Stirling generator with a Hot Cat prototype to produce the electricity consumed by the Hot Cat.
Then the system could produce hot water (output from the cooling system of the Stirling generator) at very low cost.

We can even imagine that more electricity can be produced by the
Stirling generator than consumed by the Hot Cat.

This Stirling generator is a free piston Stirling engine combined with a linear alternator that can directly produce 220V at 50Hz. The output electrical power is 800W with a conversion efficiency of over 30% when the input temperature is about 480°C.
As you can see, the specifications are well suited to work in combination with a Hot Cat prototype.

A 1.2 kW version is now also in development.

More detailed will follow by email.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Best regards,

Nicolas Chauvin

Earlier this year LENR Cars filed a patent application for a ‘Low Energy Nuclear Thermoelectric System’ which described an automotive concept based on “an energy conversion system adapted to convert heat generated by said thermal generator into electricity, said energy conversion system being comprised of a first Stirling engine and a second Stirling engine for producing linear motion from heat.”

From what Chauvin says in this message to Rossi, it appears that he has been busy in designing and preparing systems to manufacture. LENR Cars have stated that they are hoping to work with third party LENR reactor manufacturers, and the above proposal indicates that they are hoping to partner with Rossi and Co. to use Hot Cat reactors as a power source for vehicles they will produce.

  • SiriusMan

    I think LENR Cars is great….but let me indulge in some wild speculation for a bit here:

    An interesting rumor (and patent) have just appeared that claims Google is investing in a ‘battery-powered’ flying car start-up:

    http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2013/11/20/google-flying-cars-zee-aero/#18174101=0

    Since I can’t see lithium-ion batteries give any airborne passenger vehicle a range beyond a short trip to the local convenience store, I can only guess they have some as-yet unannounced, ‘exotic’ power source in mind?

    The article claims Zee.Aero already has 52 employees, so this is a pretty serious operation already from the sounds of it.

    What if Google is getting TOTALLY on board with LENR? The mind boggles as to what we may eventuate…

  • Omega Z

    Problem with Electric Vehicles, Batteries.
    Hydrogen would have similar difficulties in an accident, Likely more deadly.

    Bathrooms, UHH, Bigger Vehicles with a Port-a-pot. 🙂
    Maybe Specialty Travel Clothing- Built in Diapers??? 🙂

  • Omega Z

    U.S. Air quality has improved greatly over time.
    People either weren’t around(To Young/Not Born yet) or have forgotten.
    Pre 1960’s/70’s, Many U.S. Cities looked much like Beijing,China does today. Likely you can find pictures of early Detroit (40’s/50’s) that could be confused for Beijing.

  • Omega Z

    This is an interesting proposal to Rossi.
    It would be suited for as smaller E-cat of about 2.5Kwh. It does seem to be within the Ranges Rossi proposed for testing a Stirling Engine. And Could be done with the exiting 10Kw H-Cat with little if any modification of said Cat.

    The MOST INTRIGUING part of this Proposal is the 30% Efficiency range. Without this level of Efficiency, 2-5 listed below doesn’t matter. Efficiency is of Utmost Importance for anything else to be of relevance.

    Listed as I would consider of most importance & all necessary for a product.
    1. 30% or better efficiency? Indicated/Possible
    2. Scalability? Indicated possible.
    3. Mass production ready. Presently for the smaller version.
    4. Cost? Not stated, To be considered in the entirety of the End Product.
    5. Durability? Likely still unknown at present..

    Seriously, Of all that I’ve investigated on the Net- This is the 1st that I would consider anywhere close to warrant testing with the E-cat to obtain reliable data.

    All Else that I have come across are in the 20% Efficiency Range. Any that suggest higher efficiencies are of question. Highly in the R&D Stage. Or in Very Early prototypes. None come within the Range of Rossi’s requirements.Tho they would be interesting to US, It would be mostly a waste of Rossi’s time. Besides, I think Rossi already has Data from such a test of sorts.

    Note: Should Rossi Enter serious discussions with LENR-Cars, It’s likely we would hear Nothing. Most Probably, there would be NDA’s Signed.

    @mcloki,
    This Would be what your asking for. It’s intent would be aligned for use in cars, But would also be suited for a stand alone Generator.

  • GreenWin

    Since I do not communicate with Dr. Rossi directly or through the JNP, I will post this here and suggest both Rossi and Nic Chauvin consider testing the 1kW Developer’s kit. The spec is for 550C at the hot side (Head) making a match to HotCat possible. While the Sunpower Inc. design calls for NG as fuel – how nice it would be to see fuel consumption drop to near zero while yielding 1kWe at ~350V DC. Here is the company’s open invitation:

    “CURRENTLY, THE 1 KW DEVELOPER’S KIT ALLOWS FOR PROPANE OR NATURAL GAS, BUT AS THE ENGINE ONLY REQUIRES HEAT, OTHER OPTIONS
    ARE DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES”

    http://www.sunpowerinc.com/1kW.php

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Musk replies to Tesla fires/reporting.

    http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-fire

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Rossi’s answer to Frank’s question “we must make a careful due diligence upon the Customers” tells me they plan a very small/slow roll-out, probably already in progress.

  • Daniel Maris

    What’s the problem? Let LENR supply the electricity/methane/hydrogen for vehicles.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      The problem is storage for electricity and hydrogen, and carbon for methane.

      • Daniel Maris

        Not necessarily. Heard of electric roads? And battery changing technology?

        I think with hydrogen is more the difficulty of how it’s delivered to the vehicle and to the engine.

        • Omega Z

          Daniel

          All comes down to safety convenience & “COST”.
          Many things today are possible. Including living independently off Grid.
          Economically, Only a few can afford to do this.

          Same will apply to the E-cat. If it costs me a Million$ to have an E-cat Generator in my home, It’s Highly improbable it will EVER happen.

          The Fact is, If the World had to depend on Wind/Solar for all it’s Energy needs, It would involve a Major Reduction in Standards of living for all the Developed World. More so for all non developed countries.

          As to Electric roads, Possible. Not Really feasible. Costs would severely limit where you could travel. Comparable to a Rail System. Very efficient in their limited use. But not practical in general.

  • mecatfish

    I dont think it will work. I asked Rossi a question on the blog last year. He responded and then a couple hours later my question and his answer was taken down. It was about the practicality of using a hot cat in an automobile. I work for a testing lab that does a lot of automotive testing. It is unbeilevable what something as simple as a tail light fixture has to go through to be used in a car. Thermal shock, vibration, impact…etc. I asked Rossi if his LENR core would stop working if it was dropped off the table or rapped with a hammer. He said it would stop working. I seriously doubt the high wire balancing act that his heater core requires will be able to withstand even the simplest vibration or crash test. The roads in Indiana are horrible and I bet the ECAT wont like them.

    • Casey

      Rossi many times told us, that the E-cat is not for a car. But the question repeatedly is returning again and again from new readers.

      • Allan SHura

        What about insulated bubble wrap or fluid suspension.

    • Omega Z

      Everything you state is why Rossi has always said, at least 20 years.
      All Problematic/Engineering & Regulatory.

      However, he hasn’t said it’s impossible. Just not at this time.
      I would Note that LENR-Cars, Is looking to the future, not the present. They are just laying the ground work. They appear aware of the problems.
      Likely, they will produce products for other uses before they ever have a practical Car for market. Their just getting an early start. A Necessity should they aim to compete against the status qua.

  • Anandamyd

    That is a big kick:) let see if Rossi or other LENR “magician” will catch the message.

    • Ecat

      Rossi already responded:

      Andrea Rossi
      November 19th, 2013 at 10:09 AM
      Nchauvin:
      Please send an offer for one unit. We will test it.
      Warm regards
      A.R.

      • Omega Z

        This Public Proposal per say likely isn’t the reason for Rossi’s response.
        Likely Details in their direct Email with many more details warranted such a quick response.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          My thoughts too. I think Rossi is interested in a Sterling engine with 30% efficiency. Not the LENR/Car combination per se.