More on E-Cat Validations (Updated: Rossi on Potential for Sabotage)

I’ve been trying to get a more clear picture of the ongoing E-Cat validation, and what the purpose is behind them. Today Andrea Rossi made a comment which gives a little firmer idea about the timetable of these tests:

Safety is an absolute priority. An E-Cat cannot be put for sale if it has not been certified for the safety. This is the reason for which the domestic E-Cat cannot be put for sale. To sell a product that has not been certified for the safety is a risk that no serious manufacturer can accept. The sole products that have been certified for the safety, so far, are the 1 MW low temperature E-Cat and the Hot Cat reactor, whose validation is still in course and will continue probably until the first quarter of the year 2014 before the results of the validation tests will be communicated.

I followed up this comment with some questions of my own and got the following responses:

1. Is the current long-term validation for the purpose of getting safety certification for the hot cat?

No, the validation and R&D long- term- activity have different purposes: for us, as manufacturers, the purpose is to make good products, for the third indipendent party is to confirm the validation made for a week, verifying in a long term which are the consequences. Obviously, the Ragone number, after a 6 months period, will give more clear indications.

2. Will the hot cat validation help with safety certification for domestic e-cat systems?

Unfortunately, no. This is an issue totally indipendent from what we can do and is very difficult any forecast

3. Is the domestic e-cat still a priority for your team?

Priorities are the products we can do and sell.

If I had read a bit more carefully, I would have asked the first question differently, because Rossi says in the first comment that the hot cat reactors have received safety certification along with the low temperature plant. I think from this answer it is fairly obvious that there is not much effort being put into the domestic ecat at the moment, because for whatever reason, certification is not going to be issued — and also, I expect, they don’t really have a desire to put E-Cats out into the public at this point where they are liable to be dismantled and reverse engineered.

Rossi here says that he expects the testing to conclude in the first quarter of next year. This is a similar schedule to the testing done by Levi and his team earlier this year. The last testing concluded in March, and it was May before the report was published. It seems from what Rossi says here, that main purpose of the independent testing being done by the independent team (Levi again?) is to confirm the results of this year’s test over a longer time period.

So it looks to me like things are setting up for a repeat of this year, with an ETA of new reports in spring/summer of 2014.

UPDATE: Here’s another new comment by Rossi on the domestic e-cat issue in which he expresses concern about the potential for his enemies to interfere with his work by sabotage.

Hank Mills:
Safety certification is necessary and must be made by a major certification company. Laws are the same in all the world. The E-Cat poses relevant problems in domestic applications, where not qualified Customers can use it. We should be exposed to enormous risks, also for voluntary sabotages.
Can you imagine what our enemies could do in a “friendly” apartment with an E-Cat they could buy for 1,000 $ in a shop ? This is why, realistically, domestic application cannot be a priority. It is a matter of good sense. It is not a matter of product failure to get a certification, it is a matter of a situation that makes impossible to get a certification in these conditions. Safety remains an absolute priority, wherever we put the E-Cats in the world.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • RGlenCheek

    Climate Change does not threaten humanity any more than Nature itself ALREADY threatens humanity. Check out what happened in the Phillipines recently if you are confused about what I mean.

    The climate of our planet has been changing for billions of years and it is not going to wipe out humanity as we have already survived millions of years through cataclysmic events.

    But I do agree our lifestyle might be threatened and a great percentage of human life might be as well, but I doubt any of it will go beyond what the Toba event did.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

    • malkom700

      In my opinion you are mistaken, because as we change some parameters that we do not know with certainty what the consequences will be. The parameters compared to the parameters that were 300 years ago.

  • bachcole

    Thank you, malkom701. Given that LENR has made AGW a non-issue, I think that humor is greatly called for. (:->)

  • malkom700

    The biggest problem for manking is the global warming, LENR must be assessed primarily from this perspective, not only on our domestic boilers. LENR may be our last hope. In this respect a useful role for mankind can play a dictatorial systems. There could be introduced LENR tomorrow.

    • bachcole

      Oh, the humanity!!! I’m going have to tell my house plants that CO2 is a toxin.

      • GreenWin

        Rog, the pretense that CO2 is “pollution” begs why EPA, WHO, NIH and dozens of other guv’ment agencies allow CO2 infused beverages, aka SODA, BEER, WATER and WINE to be sold worldwide to children and adults?? As for houseplants and other plant life – Seeing IS believing:

        http://www.co2science.org/education/truthalerts/v13/cowpea.php

        • Buck

          Haven’t you ever heard the saying “too much of a good thing”?

          I hope you agree that plants are not the only component of a global ecosystem.

          http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-plant-food-advanced.htm

          • GreenWin

            Correct. We have no definitive evidence that these higher CO2 ppm cause global warming. IPCC is backtracking again, suggesting that warming is likely 50% due to aerosols. Would this not include clouds?

        • bachcole

          Wow. Notice that the leaves of the high CO2 are yellower (and I am the color blind one). I just think that the high CO2 plant doesn’t have to work as hard as the low CO2 plant.

          If we the humans have epigenetics, so also would plants. I would love to see what would happen over numerous generations.

          450 ppm is above where we are now, and 1270 is a bit on the high side. For me, this video confirms what we already really knew, that higher CO2 is a good thing for plants.

      • Buck

        Roger, it is interesting that you promote homeopathy, a discipline of using minute doses of natural substances that in a healthy person would produce symptoms of disease. You understand the counter intuitive argument supporting homeopathy and recognize that large doses can negatively impact the whole body.

        • bachcole

          I am sitting here OUT of pain thanks to homeopathy. (:->) I wonder if there is a homeopathy or flower remedy for skeptopathology.

          Obviously too much of any good thing, including CO2, will become a bad thing.

          • Buck

            I’m very glad that it has alleviated your pain . . . what more could one hope for.

            • bachcole

              I could hope for complete healing, and that may come. But I have to take Arnica 200C at least once every 2 days and supplemental magnesium, B-6, boron, and a good diet to keep the demons away. But at least it sets me up to heal, UNLIKE conventional pain killers that do NOT set me up to heal and which might even retard healing.

  • malkom700

    This is only a partial problem, the phenomenon may cause world disaster. Let us remember former miners strike in England at the time of Margaret Thatcher. In addition, it is not certain that the world can handle the increased heat loss to the atmosphere due to the increasing of eat wasting. It will therefore be necessary brutal managemet by states. Nevertheless, rapid deployment is of course essential.

    • bachcole

      eh????

    • Omega Z

      You do realize all existing Power plants produce heat. Right.
      Along with all the pollution.
      LENR is clean. And may be able to produce electricity directly without most of the heat of existing technology.
      This is a win win… You have false concerns…

      • Mikael

        Yes, thermal power plants obviously produce heat, but no heat is involved in power generation from wind mills and hydropower plants.

    • Zedshort

      Not sure what the miner’s strike has to do with the e-cat. The waste heat problem is a red herring. It is greenhouse gases that cause global warming. We could increase the output of heat ten-thousand fold and it would not show up as a problem globally. It might cause heat islands which might be a problem in places like Phoenix.

      • Omega Z

        Yes, Phoenix City Planners must be nuts.
        Figuring Projected Growth, they calculated Heat Island Effect to raise average summer temps of a 150`F by 2050. This did not incorporate the GW effect.
        A/C’s would need doubled or tripled in size & last about 2 or 3 seasons. Space suits would be needed to work on them. Likely just to live there.

        Huh. Who let the city planners stay out in the heat to long. I think they must be suffering from heat stroke. Their brains have become disengaged.

        I would Imagine most of the people who post here have no desire to live in a place so crowed.

        Politicians on the other hand like to corral people into small areas. Easier to control them. Farming of the Human Species.

    • Timar

      While waste heat can of course pose problems with local heat islands, globally it is a non-problem. It’s impact on global warming is by an estimated six orders of magnitude(!) lower than the the impact by green house gases. Even with LENR, we would hardly ever increase our energy production more than one or two orders of magnitude, especially as energy efficiency is ever increasing (which actually may be an upside of LENR’s long latency). However, if LENR serves to decentralize energy production, it may as well mitigate problems with “hot spots” of waste heat due to centralized energy production (i.e. power plants heating up a river’s water, causing ecological problems). Indeed, most problematic would be densely pupulated cities.

  • GreenWin

    A reminder to utility owners and equipment manufacturers: while distributed energy will obviate the century old grid and centralized energy production, it grows new opportunities. Multiple approaches to LENR heat/electric generation offer visionary enterprises design, manufacturing, installation and maintenance business. Initially industrial district CHP applications, later in microgrid-distributed municipal and light-industry campuses, and eventually microgrid residential. Most of the West, Asia and India need this technology. Emerging nations need to replace wood cookstoves to slow forest destruction.

    There is literally a world of opportunity in the forest, if ones looks past the trees.

  • malkom700

    The idea of ​​domestic E-Cat is flawed, it is not needed, because breaks large systems. It is enough to drastically reduce energy prices.

    • Sporenstrex

      I don not agree. In the case with LENR there’s a potential to supply energy to all corners of the world completely independent on utility companies. I’m not worried about oil companies or utilities. Their employees will find other things to do in a new LENR economy.

    • bachcole

      I also do not agree. There is this thingie called coronal mass ejections. You might check out “Carrington Event”. This is not an “if” thingie. This is a “when” thingie. With home LENRs, this problem pretty much disappears. A Carrington Event today would take us back to a technology level before the telegraph, before 1840. Not an “if, but a “when”.

      • US_Citizen71

        No guarantee that a home Ecat would survive a “Carrington Event” most RF generators tend to be solid state, along with the other sensors and controls that would be needed to automate and increase efficiency of a Home Ecat. All of which would likely fry during a “Carrington Event”. During the 1840 event some of the coils on telegraph senders melted due to high induced current even with the batteries not attached.

        • bachcole

          Wires strung out over hundreds of miles present a much greater risk from EMPs. A home LENR down in a basement could also be easily “hardened” even beyond being in a basement. The kind of risk that you are talking about is greater for cellphones and the like.

          • US_Citizen71

            As long as you have a good breaker system to disconnect the wires to the house above it could be done but not cheaply.

            • bachcole

              This is not a maybe. It is not theoretical. It has already happen several times. The transformers get blown, among other problems. Quebec was blacked out for a day or so because of a CME. The northeast of the USA was blacked out for a day or so. People were stuck in elevators. 9 months later we had a micro-baby boom because of it. EMPs have already caused problems with the grid and people’s electronics.

            • Omega Z

              US_Citizen71

              That is 1 of the Keys. A type of Ground Fault circuit.
              It’s likely that most people would have a 6×6 concrete below ground containment for an E-cat adjoined to their home.(I’m just thinking ahead of problems having a CHP system in the home.) Just pipe everything in.

              They already have paint that creates a Faraday. So this “Bunker” would be easy to shield if done during it’s construction. The rest of the home could have some shielding, but 1 can just assume, Some of your Favorite Electronics may take a hit.

              Me- I’d prefer to build an underground home & eliminate 80% of my needs from the beginning. And a Trip switch for anything that goes outside the shell.

      • Omega Z

        I agree Roger.
        They already have a paint that creates a Faraday system and all one would need is a ground fault type of switch. I already assume any home system will have some type of battery restart or backup, so any problems would be minimal & a quick recover very possible.

        Presently if the Entire World suffered a Carrington Event, There are those who by my opinion paint a pretty rosy picture. “We’ll have it fixed in a few years.”

        In the U.S. there are about a 120 nodes(Don’t recall there exact name” that make the grid possible. We only build 3 or 4 a year & only have a dozen in reserve.
        So, Their assumption, “Day to Day life pretty well continued as is”, it would take 40 years to recover. Their Assumption is all wrong, therefore I have to “Assume” this information is just for public consumption to keep the masses from Stark Freaking Out Terror.

        Considering our dependency on Modern tech, It’s a good bet that 80% of the world food production would cease. Imagination can fill in the blanks. Life becomes Strictly survival of the fittest.
        I think maybe 25% of humanity would survive. I’m being optimistic of course.

        A Few Years, Ha ha, They haven’t recovered from Katrina as of yet.

        • bachcole

          I thought that Carrington Events by definition involve the whole world. I guess if only Quebec was involved once then I am wrong. But a really Carrington Event like event would be worldwide.

          It would be Armageddon. Three quarters of the world’s population would be wiped out. But with LENR, it would be merely a major nuisance.

          • Omega Z

            Not positive about the definition.
            All I know is 1 of us may be right.

    • winebuff

      The only reason imho the domestic cat will not be out is IP exposure he can control exposure large cats sold to utillities get. Cert is a secondary reason with enough money safty cert would be rather quick.

    • Omega Z

      “it is not needed, because breaks large systems.”

      The Large System is already Broken. Even the Government knows this.
      It’s days are coming to an End.
      Maybe Your Job depends on the Old System. Get Retrained. The New LENR will create far more jobs then it eliminates.
      it will create massive economic growth & Jobs. Not just the old fossil dependent jobs but new jobs of all types.
      Robotics may become an absolute necessity just to fill the man power shortage.

  • dickyaesta

    Good for you Frank, excellent article (http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/What-Could-be-Bigger-than-Shale-How-about-LENR.html), sorry I hadn’t read it before.

    Now is the time for the little steps, not meant badly Frank, that will eventually accumulate into a crescendo of normal people wanting and demanding an Ecat or similar against all corrupt scientists and corrupt politicians and once again it seems to me there won’t be much stopping the deluge once people begin to realise there are alternatives to their misery. If you can’t kill the beast in one stroke, kill it by a 1000 strokes.(free interpretation of Death By A Thousand Cuts) At least it will suffer!!

    Saludos from a still miserable Spain

  • BroKeeper

    Frank, you concluded from what Rossi “expressed concern about the potential for his enemies to interfere with his work by sabotage”. Respectfully, however,I believe he is not concerned about E-Cat sabotage nearly to the extent terrorist sabotage potential it has.

    If the domestic E-Cat can’t be safety certified against retrofitting it into a dirty radioactive LENR device purchased from Wal-Mart for a $1000 it never will be.

    Before the hot cat Rossi found the domestic E-Cat emitted high 511 kev energetic gamma rays then shielded by thick iron and lead walls. Can you imagine the health risk in the form of a well planted hidden dirty LENR device would be without shielding (ceramic container)? After long exposure people would start entering hospitals with strange flu-like symptoms perhaps too late for some.

    Being nuclear, the industrial E-Cat HT certification would probably require a certified operator on site; scheduled inspections and government monitoring. “This is why, realistically, domestic application cannot be a priority.”

    Sorry for the negative but despite all this I do hope AR finds a way to make the E-Cat domestically safe soon. The good will potentially far outweighs the bad.

    • Omega Z

      Brokeeper

      Piecing info together from others in the field, It appears the Gamma is only when the initial ignition process takes place & some think this is associated with the transmutation of Nickle to Copper.

      If so, & from Rossi’s statements, this has been drastically reduced. Copper transmutation is now negligible & much less Gamma emitted. Thus much less shielding seen in the Hot-Cat. What is emitted is absorbed by the stainless steel core & a hinted at Titanium casing of the Core. Only by opening the Core would Gamma be an Issue, And that would in essence Conclude/Stop the process instantly.

      This is similar to MFMP’s Gamma Readings of only a second or 2 when initiating the process. I think this is an Issue easily dealt with.
      Safety Issues may involve other unknowns which may or may not exist. Thus the long term testing to be certain.

    • Private Citizen

      Any number of devices and chemicals, a microwave oven thru the neighbors wall for example, can be rigged to harm others. Mercury poured under someones bed; countless orderless, tasteless gasses and poisons already are legal. People currently drive around with enough gasoline in their tanks to blow up a building. Could list 1,000 other examples.

      That an ECat could be rigged to do harm makes it no less lethal than other items on the market, other than the specific type of harm it could inflict.

      • bachcole

        Mix in fear of the unknown, and the E-Cat becomes ever so much more threatening.

    • BroKeeper

      This is about ceritfications not fear of desires. The NRC and NSA both will be aware of anything being validated with the word “Nuclear” inserted. Terrorist are known to exploit any weakness in protections. If there was any gamma leakage detected in the past (startup or stable state) it could be considered. Perhaps already considered, certification or not – who knows?

  • jousterusa

    The fact is that the domestic E-Cat is a dramatically and definitively disruptive device, at least as advertised, and getting it certified for allowing millions of home to go off the grid is a hopeless task. Americans don’t even have the guts to throw out 5% of the Congress, even though they enjoy only a 9% approval rating, so they are not going to fight for freedom from the power Establishment. Many of us were initially duped into believing the domestic E-Cat was going to revolutionize the world (and the poorest countries that need it most don’t have the safety certifications Rossi describes). Nor does its dangers exceed those of the bigger devices already certified (but not by Underwriters Laboratory). Now it turns out it is not ever going to be rolled out because it is potentially unsafe and its “secrets” may be discovered, and that in its place we have a $1.5-million device (the hot E-Cat) that may be in the testing phase for years if it is ever rolled out to a handful of the huge corporations that can afford it. Rossi could change all this if he screwed his head on right, but there’s no indication he will. While I think it is his intention to do something influential and important to society with the hot E-Cat, I don’t think he has any plan to free ordinary people from the onerous burden of the grid.

    • Buck

      You despair unreasonably.

      At last count, there are more than just one LENR company. And, each company has different resources and technology which drives different decisions. Don’t count your chickens before they are hatched.

      • bachcole

        In this case don’t count your dead eggs before they fail to hatch.

    • Omega Z

      Bogus…
      Your post sounds as if you’ve already resigned yourself to the status qua.
      350K people already live off grid. The technology to do so already Exists.
      But it is not Cheap. Many here are hoping the E-cat will be a cheaper means to do so.

      Well, Even if the Home Unit becomes available now. It wont reach that Goal. It’s a water heater. Many improvements need to come. This will take time so waiting for a home system is of No Issue for me. It’s merely a matter of time. The Extreme high temps & Pressures of the Hot Cat more or less excludes it for home use. Something more intermediate will be needed. Medium temp. Also, High Temp Turbines & Generators will always be expensive.

      Other technologies will take time to catch up. If Hot cats are used in commercial/Industrial settings, This just means the tech becomes available (Hands On) for others to exploit. Advanced research will develop better more efficient Thermal to Electric convertors that work at lower temperatures. Possibly in the 40% to 50% range. This in itself will greatly increase the odds that Home systems will become economical.

      The Other End of the Spectrum also needs to be looked at. Many computer monitors are available that use a 10th the energy that the old CRT used. TV’s are following suit. From 100’s of watts to a few 10’s of watts. The Technology to produce super efficient Refrigeration is available. Just presently not used. An 80% reduction in energy is within reach here. With reduced need for energy, An E-cat CHP system becomes much more feasible & Economical.

      There is a reason today’s power plants are so large. The Technology only allows it to be economical at Large scale due to it’s Overall requirements. Many of these do not apply to E-cat technology. In fact E-cats can be more economical built at smaller scales at Local distribution points. Doesn’t require a mass of cross country lines & steel towers, poles & substations.

      The 1st E-cats may be drop in replacements, But due to reduced costs, will quickly become distributed. Maybe built & owned by communities. Later to be scaled to in home use as technology allows. Maybe a combination for redundancy or balanced demand.

      All in All, This is just the beginning. It may be delayed or slowed, but it will not be stopped.

  • LENRwishful

    Seems like ecat australia needs to update their web site – “Pre-order your domestic unit due out in 2014” . I wonder how the licences and sub licences are dealing with this news.

    • Omega Z

      Yes, Several licensees are Lax on updating their sites.
      The Licensee for Italy is totally understanding of the situation. Seems to have a very good handle on Real World Realities. That development runs into snags & Timelines drift with all new technology.

  • Miles

    I wonder how many test e-cat “devices” they have running simultaneously?

    For something that is earth shattering as this technology seems to be, i’d “imagine” they would have multiple devices being run in sync in order to evaluate the efficiency / discrepancies between each unit before they disclose the final results (hopefully next year). Does this seem like a worthy question to ask Rossi???

    • catbauer24

      You are exactly right, and this is an essential practice for determining MTBF for pretty much any device.

    • bachcole

      It seem perfectly right to me. In fact, now that you mention it, I would be very surprised if they did not have multiple units running at the same time.

  • catbauer24

    Lets say safety is the real concern (instead of secrecy, as thinly veiled). In such ‘real concern’ case, any government will want to know any NEW types of exothermic reactions producing heat, that were previously unknown / undocumented to Science. If the actual operation / process / reaction is not openly validated by a regulatory agency, I can’t ever imagine operating these plants in secrecy to be legal… there would be so much liability in doing so, a person might just want to walk away from even trying, lest it’s found they did so with an unknown (potentially nuclear) reaction, even if it ends up being safe. A transparent effort could get legal operation into hands of the interested parties much faster.

    • Buck

      CB, I would bet Rossi’s partners will ensure the presence of some sort of 3rd Party/Government oversight while the E-Cat is being used to generate power in a retrofitted power station. They seem very good at their job, guiding Rossi away from the consumer market for a period of time.

      • catbauer24

        I think the trouble arises when it is found the operation of that black box is ‘anomalous’, and that it runs on ‘mice’. It is the mice that any regulatory agency want to find out about, all the details, not just the hamster cage. The safety will only be as known as the inside process is known, and it would have to be published. To Rossi’s own point, no regulatory agency wants to sign off on unknowns, what is inside is a HUGE unknown and liability to them, if there are not scientific papers on it, and such properties studied in a transparent, shareable way.

        • US_Citizen71

          There is no liability to any government agency from Rossi, there has to be regulations governing what he is doing before an agency could have liability for not enforcing them. The military and by association the DOE might and should be interested in a new way of generating energy but that does not equate to liability. You’re projecting your desires on to others. So which group do you fall in? Competitor looking to steal IP, scientist hoping to publish a paper or doomsday prepper looking for a power source for your bunker.

          • catbauer24

            I just want things to both be found safe, and expediently so. Both can only happen with transparency, meaning those e-cats will need to be x-rayed and inspected / studied in regards to what is inside, and this data shared for study. That doesn’t make sense to someone who knows it is not patentable, and wants to profit in any way possible (disregarding needs of the greater population), of course. Sure, various needs can wait, that should help the profit potential.

            I am just someone who wants true world progress (for everyone), albeit at some expense to the profit of the well-off. Maybe we can get the input of billions of people without internet on this forum? Oh, then again maybe not.

            • US_Citizen71

              What you want is for Rossi to lose his IP so that the many may prosper. But the ends do not justify the means. Without the ability to profit through ones actions and creations why would anyone continue to put out any effort to produce in the long run? It is a slippy slope you can’t just say pr we only want to do this one time for this one thing, without it coming back to haunt you. We don’t live in an utopia of a world where everything one could need or want is provided. You take away reward in this world and output of creativity and new ideas will drop to the level of the lowest common denominator.

              • catbauer24

                understand, some things transcend profit (and IP).

                • US_Citizen71

                  How well did that ideal work for communist China, Cuba and Russia? Appears to have failed to me since all three are becoming more and more capitalist every day.

                • bachcole

                  Citizen, I think that you are overstating catbauer24’s position and thus misunderstanding him. I buy raw milk when I can because somethings transcend profit. It costs more. I am losing profit. But my health is worth it. We could still live in a free and capitalist society if Rossi shared his secret.

                • US_Citizen71

                  No I understand perfectly what he is alluding to. Forceful sharing of IP, ‘Rossi is a bad man because he wants to profit from his own labor’. Taking your milk example it is not your ability to purchase that is in question, it is the right to sell the milk instead of having to give it away to anyone who wants it. As a commercial photographer IP is very dear to my heart. My IP is my living.

                • bachcole

                  So, could we say that you are IP MAN [the founder of Wing Chun school of Kung Fu, the style that has all of those wicked inside moves that slaps the bejesus out of the opponent]? (:->)

                • catbauer24

                  As ZeroFossilFuels states himself (paraphrased) “if you have an energy breakthrough, go ahead and share the information, it can’t be lost that way and you will profit more from it in the end”

                • US_Citizen71

                  “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
                  ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

        • bachcole

          Let’s say you find a satchel full diamonds. And you try to walk into a jewelry store to sell it. If you are not paranoid, you are clueless. I see Rossi sort of in the same situation. He has the greatest and most lucrative discovery in the history of the world. Who does he trust? The very value (and strangeness) of his invention makes it difficult to introduce it to the world.

    • Omega Z

      Cat

      “I can’t ever imagine operating these plants in secrecy to be legal”

      This happens more often then 1 might think. The U.S. Government has done it many times. The Manhattan project always rattles me a little.
      When the first Nuke was detonated, There were those involved that thought it might fizzle & those who thought it could chain reaction to the elimination of the universe & every possibility between.

      Now- Keep that in mind when I say, It is my Opinion based on soft evidence that the U.S. Government has their people involved with Rossi & his Partners TESTS. If it’s dangerous, They don’t care.

      Note many post the question why the Government isn’t all over this.
      Looking at the information at hand, It’s easy to conclude They Are.
      SPAWAR, NRL, NASA, DARPA, DOD, Etc…
      There just not in a Rush. Their just being their methodical selves.

      Every player, Both those we’re aware of & some we likely aren’t that’s involved with this research has received Government attention.
      When Outed, It’s always in a personnel capacity not official.
      Right, If that’s the case,Then the Government has a lot of Rogue Employees who don’t receive disciplinary action.

      An Added Note: The DOE has always thrown cold water on LENR, But I recently came across information that stated that the DOE, Correction, An Obscure Division of the DOE has been involved with LENR research for at least 2 years. Alas, I can’t find that info at present, but should I find it again, I’ll be sure to post the link.

      • Heath

        I believe it is the Low Energy Nuclear Physic Dept in the DOE at Argonne Nuclear Laboratory.

        https://www.phy.anl.gov/lep/

        • GreenWin

          This group works with traditional accelerator technology “at or near Coulomb barrier energy.” So, they subscribe to the belief that if you hit matter hard enough, it might possibly, hopefully fuse. Or something. https://www.phy.anl.gov/atlas/index.html

          • Heath

            I saw their small accelerator as well. Hopefully that is not where their research ends.

        • Omega Z

          Nope, That’s not the one.

          • Heath

            Um, now I am very curious. If you find that, please send it along!

            • Omega Z

              Heath
              That was & is my intent. If I can find it.
              My scenario. I usually have half dozen or so windows open with as many as a dozen tabs going most of the time, sometimes multiple topics. Going Link to Link, I occasionally stumble on unexpected info. That which doesn’t pop up on a search.

              I have a lot of interruptions & sometimes close things out without bookmarking something of interest thinking I did. This was 1 of those times. One thing for Certain. The Title definitely contained “LENR” research. This happens to me way to often. 🙁
              Considering the DOE’s stance, I thought this was very important.

    • GreenWin

      It appears that “safety” IS the new gate to public access. So, let’s play devil’s advocate and ask – if as seems politically, and financially clear – LENR threatens enough PTB – what makes anyone think the “test” retrofits are NOT subject to sabotage?? Are we to assume DOE will protect these test installations? By the mechanism they use to protect e.g. fissile materials? Say, for example the security provided by DOE/NNSA contractors at the Y-12 facility in March of this year?? We think not.

      Such an arrangement will appear highly suspicious. And should such a system fail – how do we know it has not been subject to subterfuge?? Here, I shall err in favor of the popular skep view that a fully independent, generally public test bed is the only one that will obviate sabotage or industrial espionage. A free press MUST have full and unfettered access to such tests – not the industrial secret or IP – but to ensure that all parties involved are above board, politically, morally and ethically.

      An explosion, fire, personnel death at any of these retrofitted sites will be enough to shelve the technology for another 25 years. Secrecy disallows oversight and error detection. Oppi told us this 60 years ago.

  • GreenWin

    Yep. This is the preferred strategy of the fossil/fission cartel. Buy an innovative consumer product (e.g. electric car) use it a couple months, then it catches on fire, explodes, crashes, kills elders and children, etc. Corruption at this level knows no bounds. And cartel saboteurs have had plenty of practice.

    But the good news is, never will an LENR generator threaten millions with radioactive toxicity, particulate pollution, or “greenhouse” gases. And as there is little accumulated pressure within the reactor, explosion like a standard gas water heater is near impossible:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bU-I2ZiML0

    • Buck

      GW, your offered perspective reminds me of one of the most extreme scenarios presented in a business ethics class. It was drawn from real life.

      I think Rossi’s partners are doing a very good job of maintaining a pragmatic outlook.

      • GreenWin

        Buck, agreed that Rossi’s partners/handlers have tempered the “beast” and directed a more pragmatic course for LENR introduction. This alone is a rather astonishing triumph for evolution. It is given IMO, that Rossi has entered a realm akin to John Dee’s Natural Philosophy; an exegetical challenge to bridge worlds, to restore human perception and intelligence in the significance of nature.

        • Buck

          GW, regrettably I’ve not heard of John Dee prior to your mentioning him. There is very little available through Google. Wikipedia had a brief biography without any clear focus on Natural Philosophy. So, I can guess your meaning from brief sentences.

          I understand what you are saying and can speculate on what Rossi is experiencing. I do hope he is living within that perception of, that connection with Nature that John Dee worked a lifetime to describe. Rossi is a better man for it.

          To extend the thought. I like the consequences triggered from the ‘discovery’ of quantum mechanics we’ve discussed. IMO, there are many scientists and academics of varying disciplines eager to rise to the exegetical challenge of describing the Consciousness-Physical Body bridge. Some have been painted as fringe and some maintain a mainstream affiliation. Even the Dalai Lama is supporting these scientific efforts to enrich and make concrete our understanding of the bridge. We will all benefit.

  • Ted-X

    SOMETHING INTERESTING AND “IMHO” RELEVANT

    Simulated attack on the US power grid planned for Wednesday — Thursday November
    12, 2013

    The North American Electric Reliability Council (NERC) is quietly planning to
    launch a simulated attack on the U.S. power grid on Wednesday and
    Thursday (Nov. 13–14) called GridEx II, according to an unpublished
    document provided to KurzweilAI by the North American Electric
    Reliability Corporation (NERC).

    The updated objectives for GridEx II are:

    • Exercise the current readiness of the electricity industry to respond
    to a security incident, incorporating lessons learned from from a former
    exercise, GridEx 2011.

    • Review existing command, control and communication plans and tools for NERC and its stakeholders.

    • Identify potential improvements in physical and cybersecurity plans, programs, and responder skills.

    • Explore senior leadership policy doctrine and triggers in response to major grid reliability issues.

    “During
    the one and a half days of the live exercise play, participants will
    receive sequenced email messages (“injects”) that detail notional
    scenario conditions,” the document says. “Based on this information,
    participants will engage in both internal response measures and external
    information sharing activities across the sector. An Exercise Control
    cell, based in Washington, D.C., will manage scenario distribution,
    monitor exercise play and capture response activities.”

    The exercise is not open to media or non-participants.

    No further information was available from NERC, but according to
    SmartGridNews.com, “the participants include 65 utilities and eight
    regional transmission organizations. They will respond and interact just
    as they would in a real emergency.”

    A power-grid outage was
    depicted in the recent National Geographic docudrama “American Blackout”
    (video below). As noted in a recent analysis by the Langley
    Intelligence Group Network (Lignet.com), “If National Geographic’s
    docu-drama is unrealistic about anything, it understates the threat by
    creating a scenario in which a nationwide blackout lasts just 10 days.
    Among seven U.S. government studies conducted since 2004, a consensus
    has emerged that the electric power industry is not prepared to cope
    with manmade or natural EMP threats that could inflict a nationwide
    blackout lasting not days, but months or years.”

    • GreenWin

      Lignet, NERC, National Geo and other old timers carefully avoid the obvious and wallow in FUD. The best, most secure, least vulnerable energy infrastructure is full distribution of energy production. Starting with Distributed Energy Resources as detailed by the Edison Inst. in January of this year. Municipal, district, and residential DERs are the most effective way to a secure energy infrastructure. Attempting to harden and protect centralized transmission systems (not-so-smart grid) is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Perhaps the NatGeo doc will awaken taxpayers to the need for DER transition.

  • Joseph j

    It’s probably all coincidence but Michael Jesanis Co-Founder and Managing Director at HotZero LLC (district heating) is also one of the Board of Directors at Ameresco, and Ameresco also has an office near the apartment A Rossi (Ameresco is located at 420 Lincoln Rd, Miami Beach, FL .)

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/michael-jesanis/3/80a/449

    • Omega Z

      Likely coincidence as you can find this situation regardless of geography.
      The Only Logical approach would be partnering with a Major Manufacturer. This would create a very short list of potential partners.

  • Iggy Dalrymple
    • Pedro

      The article is new, but the content is very old (at least from mid 2012!). Bad journalism if you write old news as being new, bad journalist if he didn’t know it was old news. Bad for LENR/Brillioun if there is no advance in the issue of the 20 Million conditional investment after almost 1.5 year.
      All in all… this article should never have been written!

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        It’s a Sept story. Hadn’t noticed that. But I wouldn’t call Jed Rothwell a BAD journalist and he just posted it.

        The fact that the story is published in OILPRICE is news.

        • bitplayer

          concur on the importance of the venue

        • Pedro

          Hi Iggy, maybe my comment wasn’t clear… I’m not criticizing you or Jed for giving us the link, please keep them coming!

          My critisism was about the journalist who wrote the article. He should have done some investigation… the “news” about Brillioun having a conditional 20M investment is more than a year old. It was a small sensation when they published it in mid 2012, but the fact that they appearently never lived up to the requirements of the investor, and hence so far didn’t get the 20M investment as far as we know, makes this stale news. The journalist (Brian Westenhaus) doesn’t do a good job when he brings this old news as a new positive development in the commercialisation of LENR. Go and read the comments underneath the article. It hurts me to have to agree with almost al negative responses… even Maryyugo scores a few points here. All in all, this article, no matter how positive the tone, is damaging for LENR in my opinion.

          • AlainCo

            Right.

            I’m surprized that many even supportive article on LENR are partially informed, or outdated.

            many only know of e-cat, some quite old.

            for me as a tech-watcher, it is shocking, since on any subject you can easily find place with recent news, with references to competitors, to other actors…

            anyway myself I permanently find old data that make the denial of LENR every day more ridiculous.

            It also make me sad reading people enthusiasts about a recent experiment, or a peer-reviewed paper, or a good COP, or gamma, or neutrons, or…

            History is full of blatant evidences…

            clearly evidence is not enough for LENR to be admitted.

          • Omega Z

            I think Mary Yogo just cuts & pastes previous out of date responses.
            Maybe Mary has made so many posts that it is now setup as an auto respond system.

          • Alan Smith

            Ridiculous. Brillouin is making REAL advances and being transparent about their technology. I don’t think it’s any secret that SRI is evaluating their technology and the conditional 20M investment is likely predicated on successful testing, scalability and commercial application. None of these are complete. Brillouin leads the way in innovation and gets very little fanfare for it.

      • Iggy Dalrymple
  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Admin….good reporting, thanks.

  • Nixter

    Last week I asked Dr. Rossi if the various test results would be released as they become available, or if they would be combined and released together. He answered by quoting his stock (non) answer. I have since been thinking about why he decided against answering the question. He probably doesn’t have enough information to estimate any possible dates of completion. My best guess is that this decision will be made after the validation results have been analyzed and studied. If the first report that arrives has information that is negative or weak they can wait and combine it with the other pending results thereby reducing any damaging effects on their business model. On the other hand, if the first validation report received has very positive, information, that can then be released immediately. If Dr. Rossi and Company commits to a particular course of action now, their hands will be somewhat tied, by not answering my question, decisions can be made to affect a positive leaning overall outcome.

    • Omega Z

      It’s possible that different reports would be organized & Published in quick successions over a month or so then Concluded in a Grand Press Conference by the Partner.

      As in Building Momentum/Interest in the Media for the Big Announcement.
      It’s What I Would Do…

  • Joseph J

    Start or replace a Disrict Heating Comp. by a e-cat, keep it secret and earn a lot of money with this high energy prices the following years.

    Herb Gillis
    September 5th, 2013 at 7:35 PM
    Dear Dr. Rossi:
    Are district heating and district air conditioning among the industrial applications that your R&D team are testing? It seems to me these are the sorts of industry applications that could be exploited the most quickly (short term).
    Kind Regards; HRG.

    Andrea Rossi
    September 5th, 2013 at 10:22 PM
    Herb Gillis:
    Yes, you are right.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/09/district-heat-and-ac-systems-early-e-cat-applications/

    http://www.districtenergy.org/blog/2013/11/08/appreciation-growing-for-district-energychp-by-government-leaders/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=appreciation-growing-for-district-energychp-by-government-leaders

  • Buck

    Frank, you asked great questions of Rossi.

  • fritz194

    Designing safety control for powerplants – I understand the problems / certification issues for domestic use.
    Powerplants are typically operating at a very narrow and stable operating point.
    Every start and stop of such machine is a critical operation – and there is qualified staff to do that,
    Because of the stress on starting/stopping there are tight limits how often you can do that without complete overhaul / inspection.
    During operation you have qualified engineers controlling that process.
    So you can narrow safety concerns to few parameters.
    If you have a new “source” of energy without backed up theory – you have to rely on “proof in use” strategy.
    Operating a reactor for 6 months in a narrow and stable operating point, tightly monitoring all data won´t be sufficient for safety – but the first step,
    For a consumer product – you would need hundreds of reactors, with cyclic start/stop and permanent modification of the operation point, tightly monitored – to proove that the safety concerns are met unattended – without permanent qualified staff monitoring, for all operating points and almost any thinkable abuse scenarios.
    Safety certification of such consumer product is always a matter of money – even if the underlying operation principle is well known.
    Even if the product is cheap in production – you have to pay for the test effort done.
    This tradeoff / risk might be definitly to high at the moment.
    Another point could be that they still hope to get new experience/know how on pushing hotcat and 1MW plant – which would help to make even better/simpler domestic units.
    A domestic e-cat ist a strong vision – but too much commercial risk at the moment – even if it works perfect.

    Just need one customer (US) complaining that deadly unknown rays killed his cat…

    • Daniel Maris

      Yes, that sounds like a very plausible account of where we may be at! 🙂

      • fritz194

        I think the most interesting potential would be in retrofitting existing small caloric power plants with somewhat hotcat. That could be a nice playground.

        • Buck

          Brillouin has repeatedly stated that your suggestion is part of their business strategy.

    • theBuckWheat

      You are exactly right. For eCat to be made available to consumers, it will have to be used for millions of device-hours in the industrial application without a single mishap that cannot be fully explained.

      While I think that LENR is the greatest advance for humanity since the invention of the steam engine, my primary reservation is that until the theoretical physics are fully understood, devices like eCat might have an unknown operating region that either causes runaway or emission of ionizing radiation. But that should not stop anyone from their work on them. In fact, we cannot have enough of these devices under active test!

      It is my hope that LENR will allow us to start to decommission coal fired power plants and any nuclear power plant which is not “walk-away-safe”, starting with all the plants where spend fuel pools must be actively cooled.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        I would not be surprised if the 1st ‘domestic units’ are not home-builts from online open-source plans.

      • GreenWin

        BuckWheat, the industrial/district burn-in of large scale E-Cat will provide certification data valuable for microgrid & residential LENR. But recall that industrial refrigeration preceding the home fridge had its share of “mishaps” failures, and accidents – none of which prevented the successful development and sales of the first home refrigerators in 1928. LENR will follow a similar course.

        • theBuckWheat

          You are right, but the liability environment is substantially less risk-tolerant today than 90 years ago and substantially more expensive to boot.

          • GreenWin

            Potentially. The “liability environment” is another tool of FUD, supported by the legal fraternity who reek terror via jury award. However, we manage to drive cars filled with explosive liquids, heat our water with explosive gas, and produce energy by destructive consumption of resources. LENR is a blanket of disharm by comparison.

            • bachcole

              But fear of the unknown whacks most people’s sense of perspective.

  • J

    So, then, there is little hope for the common man in this. We will still have to be depending on the big companies for energy production and -delivery, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s from e-cat technology or not – it will still cost us the same.

    Until someone comes up with a home device, this, the e-cat – for me – is not interesting anymore. I hope Defkalion or the MFMP projects – or some other – will bring the much needed salvation.

    • Buck

      You show a narrow minded, short term, shallow selfish perspective about the consequences of a LENR commercial implementation. You ignore the basic fact that the technology will evolve rapidly for the first 5 – 10 – 20 years, likely spreading into many market niches. You also ignore how the technology would turn the global energy market upside down shifting the world away from fossil fuels with their negative consequences.

      You sow a depressive picture that humanity gains nothing from LENR unless someone puts a LENR powered water heater or CHP unit into YOUR home at the kick-off.

      • J

        Yeah, right. Unless this product spreads rapidly into the home market, the same interests now holding all energy production – big oil a.s.o. – will just own the e-cat-tech instead, leading us nowhere. Of course I only wanted an e-cat in MY home, not in yours or anybody else’s *rolls eyes* – who’s narrow minded, really? I say empower the masses instead of continuing down the same old path – which is what e.g. MFMP is all about (not Defkalion unfortunately). No regulation could keep people from building their own devices, if only the know-how gets around. It’s you and Rossi who are narrow-minded and corporate brown noses.

        • Buck

          I hold the same concern about Big Oil/Gas as well.

          I think it important to recognize that the apparent simplicity of the technology (nickel powder, hydrogen gas or liquid, initiating ‘spark plug’, metal/ceramic tube, control electronics) has been recognized by multiple large players who are not directly impacted/controlled by Big Oil/Gas. They include at least Toyota, Mitsubishi, ST Micro, and Elforsk, and possibly include the likes of GE, Siemens, Carrier, and Doosan. I’m sure others on this board could add other notable companies.

          When you also include the potential energy generation efficiency and effectiveness of high COP, arguably as high as 200-300, you have dramatic drops in the cost of energy delivered to the consumer and business. Competition and the likes of MFMP will do the rest.

          In the end, I suggest patience for the LENR companies and technology.

        • Omega Z

          Something of LENR technology without safety certifications have all kinds of regulations that apply. All Insurance would be null & Void & the smallest mishap could involve all kinds of Criminal Negligence charges among other things including homicide if someone gets killed.

          But Your Right, It wouldn’t stop you from building it. But the consequences likely aren’t worth the disruptions it could bring to your life. And for what. At this time a water heater.

          Seriously, The Only way you could even attempt this is if you own your Home outright & still incur all responsibilities.. Rent, Your at risk of eviction & Possibly legal charges. BUYING. Insurance becomes void & your home can be foreclosed on. YES, Buying a home requires insurance to be enforce. Without it you can be declared in breach of contract. Forfeiture. These Rules & Regulations even apply to a simple standard water heater.

    • Omega Z

      J
      Hate to burst your bubble but,
      Regardless who brings these to market, they will have to jump thru all thesame hoops just as Rossi is doing.

      It’s also highly likely that All of them will start out as Commercial/Industrial products to begin with.
      It’s simple. Lower safety levels are required because they will have trained technicians all the while there in operation. It’s the only economical way to build a safety track record for consumer products.

      Steam engines, Microwaves, Etc… Started out commercial/industrial then filtered down to the consumer as safety concerns were understood or overcome. Just a natural progression for many new technologies. More so then ever in the heavily regulated world we live in.

      Most important is that it comes to market however, Everything else will come, tho not on your time scale.

  • Ash

    Doesn’t this continued pattern of delay raise any doubts with believers? I find it very unlikely that Rossi’s alleged US partner would allow him to be out there making these statements in an uncontrolled fashion. He seems to continually contradict himself. One minute factories are under construction, the next minute there is no safety certification for domestic units but there is a cert for the Hot Cat. If any of these things were true, there would be third party evidence.

    If the skeptics were right and Rossi is just running a giant con, how would it look any different from what is happening now?

    • Buck

      IMO, you confuse your emotions with the practical reality of introducing a LENR device with all that implies. You also ignore facts already on the table such as 3rd Party Validation report from May 2013. Or the very real change in how Rossi is communicating within the LENR community, a change reflecting his role as head of R&D rather than CEO.

      Without really knowing you, I would say that you are talking like a LENR Troll looking to inflame depressive emotions as the facts are pointing towards progress and success.

      • Patrik

        There is no need for certification to sell a product like the e-cat. Its voluantary but not mandatory in most countries.

        • Buck

          I can’t say that I know the legal requirements firsthand for the top 50 Global markets but your contention is a most absurd statement.

          No business in their right mind would introduce a revolutionary LENR device, where the revolutionary technology for energy production is at a nuclear level, without extensive testing and independent safety certification.

          You are definitely talking like a LENR Troll who puts out a surreal claim that defies common sense, expecting the lack of 1st hand knowledge to cow the LENR community’s sense of confidence in the face of progress.

        • Omega Z

          Maybe your confusing the C.E. certification for Europe.
          It’s Voluntary, However, not having it has serious consequences.
          Also, In the U.S., Aside from serious consequences, It’s also Illegal for a product such as the E-cat. Even the Electronics require UL certification.
          Even marketing a new drop/extension cord requires UL certificate.

          • Patrik

            No it is not voluntary. If you notice a number close to the CE letters it shows that the product has got a certification from an notified body identified by the numbers, often (maybe always) after third party safety testing. It is not necessary for all products though, but I believe an e-cat needs that kind of third party safety testing and certification in Europe. Other CE marks only indicate that the manufacturer promise that all EU directives relevant for the appliance are fulfilled.

        • Omega Z

          China has some pretty lax rules, However, when someone does or takes
          actions that cause a lot of harm or deaths, Penalties can be quite
          harsh.

          Marched to the center of the village & Shot.

      • Ash

        Rossi told Sterling Allan in Jan 2012:

        “Rossi said that they have sent prototypes to UL, and they are working with them to get the home unit certified for “UL approval”.

        Now he is saying this never happened. So they went from a finished product sent to UL to no product? That’s absurd.

        • bitplayer

          You’re practicing a type of skepticism in which you infer that any apparent inconsistency demolishes the entire narrative.

          There’s a lot we don’t know, there are many ways that things can manifest, there are many ways to interpret every statement, and yes, Rossi has not been 100% consistent or reliable in what he says. So you have a target rich environment.

          However, reality is best found from correlating all the information available, not from picking at apparent exceptions.

          I suggest you do your homework on the history of the e-cat.

          • Gerrit

            this

        • Buck

          I’m betting that most here would diplomatically describe Rossi’s entrepreneurial style as creative and understandable given the 23 year history of suppression of LENR research. IMO, he has earned that diplomatic description because of the results which were well described in the May 2013 3rd Party testing report.

          Also, it is fair to recognize that his particular style of English is loose as can easily be seen over at JONP. As a guess, he may have mistakenly said UL when he was thinking of his safety certification in Italy.

          IMO, the most important thing to recognize is that his mystery Partner has guided Rossi into the role of head of R&D where Rossi no longer is allowed to communicate in his traditionally flamboyant manner.

          • Omega Z

            Buck

            As to you Guess, Rossi did state he submitted a Home unit for UL certification. He also explained many times that it was held up do to a lack of operational data, But many keep asking & he has even responded that he has explained it many times. Apparently people miss his response or are to lazy to check it out. The rest I agree with.
            Situations change. It may be the UL is on permanent hold for now as this would now be the Partners responsibility.

            • Buck

              My mistake, plain and simple.

            • Buck

              OZ, my mistake about UL plain and simple.

              • Omega Z

                Hey, Were all learning together. I appreciate people filling me in on things I miss.

        • US_Citizen71

          Who is to say that he didn’t put in for UL approval but was told they would need to run a 1000 of them for a 1000 hours in order for them to give their approval, since it is a such a unique and little understood device. Not having the test units or the money to pay for the testing he pulled back. Would you publicize that if you were him?

    • Gerrit

      I think real skeptics will come to the conclusion that there are many indications that Rossi has the goods. Surely there are apparent contradictions with things he said or did in the past, the whole story is far from being crystal clear.

      You should ask yourself this question:
      If Rossi is really working with a big partner on getting his device validated, how would it look any different from what is happening now ?

      • anon

        Multiple prototypes would have been demonstrated, reporters would have visited the production plant, there would be pilot customers.

        • Gerrit

          Ash, in the post above, seems to disagree with you.

          Can you please come to an agreement what you expect from Rossi in this phase.

      • Ash

        Also, he wouldn’t be continually posting these comments. Any serious company would be doing this in secret.

        The big partner story sounds like just another reason for Rossi to delay.

        • Gerrit

          when did you start following Rossi ?
          when do you think did the “big partner” come into play ?
          is Rossi’s behaviour different today than let’s say 2 years ago, when it was all about “snakes and puppeteers” – why do you think Rossi changed ?

          Look at the reply from “anon” below. (s)He expects a very open approach in this phase. Apparently there are many different views on how it should look like.

          Can you both please come to an agreement what you are expecting from Rossi in this phase and why ?

          All the people who start from a belief that Rossi is faking it will find it easy to sum up things that support their belief, while dismissing indications that support the other side.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi Has been Corralled.
          He posts now only for the few who he developed a connection with.
          But those posts are limited & one can easily see that they are under someones supervision to minimize unauthorized information. In Some cases it appears Ghost written.

          Under request from the Partner, & Rossi accepted, Certain Entities have been cut out of the loop. Even 1 who was directly involved. That be the one known as CURES. Who apparantly tried to generate Energy from a Refrigerant Generating System. Note the Flanges in some of the Released photos from the 3rd party test. That was partly Cures handy work. Mountings for a heat exchanger tank.

          Cures went Silent in December of 2012. That’s the same time Daniele Passerini of 22passi said he would no longer focus on E-cat stories unless major information come to pass.

          This is not a coincidence. Daniele & Cures among a few others were cut out of the loop. Both Daniele & Cures prematurely leaked Info & Pictures. The Partner wanted this to stop for fear that proprietory knowledge may be leaked. A Serious company doing most of this in secret. JONP is only a minor concession to Rossi.

    • Omega Z

      “the next minute there is no safety certification for domestic units”

      You phrase it as if there was a safety certificate & now there isn’t.
      Rossi has maintained the problem on certifying of a domestic unit. It requires data from a commercial/industrial system in order for this to happen. Nothing new or twisted about this.

      You should research existing technologies & the time & delays involved in mere incremental improvements. Looks much like the E-cat process, which by the way is an entirely new technology. I believe it required about 6 years for development of the Smart phone to market. All of which was preexisting tech. You probably don’t realize that Factory production of the I-Phone 5S started about 6 months before they were ever released for sale.

      I have no doubt that the software for the E-cat controls took months to develop & is likely still a work in progress.
      The Hot-Cat has undergone major changes. From a new triggering mechanism to a double core. Neither of which was used in the 3rd party Elforsk test from my understanding. My understanding, tho I may have misinterpreted it, Is that Heat is no longer the primary trigger. That the Hot-Cat can begin reacting in 1 hour now instead of 4 hours.

      Rossi’s statements to dependability/reliability for Business is a paramount concern is dead on. Anything else would be D.O.A.. Business wont invest until it is dependable/reliable and reasonably safe.
      Yes, Even in an Industrial setting, Safety is a big concern. Unless you’ve never heard of OSHA, you’d know that.

      I don’t understand the rush for the Home E-cat. At present, it is barely cost beneficial in the U.S. due to cheap Natural Gas. And in no way can you efficiently Generate Electricity with it at this time.

      No Doubt, the knowledge obtained in the Hot-Cat development will be incorporated into it in the future. Making it much more beneficial, useful & Economical for the consumer.

      As the 1st products will go to big Business, You can find solace in the Fact that They are paying the R&D costs on the front side. This will be a considerable savings to the consumer when they come to the home market. And Don’t Kid yourself, These savings will be substantial.
      Just A FACT. First adapters pay the bulk of R&D, & Production design/manufacturing facility costs.

      Maybe you should ask NASA what their holdup is. They’ve been dabbling in this Off n On since 89. Maybe their running a scam.

      • Ash

        Rossi stated in his Jan 2012 interview with Sterling Allan available on PESN.

        “Rossi said that they have sent prototypes to UL, and they are working with them to get the home unit certified for “UL approval”. ”

        Now he’s saying this didn’t happen? I think his story is getting so complicated that he can’t keep the details straight.

        I am well aware of how long it takes to build complex hardware – I work in the industry. But Rossi appears to have one or two employees and an unnamed ‘partner’. Most companies have dozens of engineers working on this type of problem. Search Apple on LinkedIn and you’ll find hundreds of people who worked on the iPhone 5s. This is the sort of evidence I’m talking about.

        • bitplayer

          “But Rossi appears to have one or two employees and an unnamed ‘partner'”..

          “Most companies have dozens of engineers working on this type of problem.”

          Why cannot Rossi have dozens of engineers from his unnamed partner working on the e-cat?

          • AlainCo

            from his behaviors since 2012, he seems more and more an employee himself. He behave so, kept to secret, investing money on real estate…

            I expect he work in a team of many dozen of peoples, with some independent teams working on some non nuclear details, and his one on the key problems…

            same for defkalion.

            question is their budget. with few millions you can probably hire a dozen of employees …

          • bachcole

            When the dust settles and we get more and more reliable news, and it turns out that you are wrong, are you going to admit it?

        • bachcole

          Is 2013 Levi et. al. real or not? Are human beings motivated by a love of money and/or service (mostly money)? If you answered yes to both question, then any doubts that you have are the result of our lack of news and your lack of faith in your own thinking.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi submitted a Home version to UL for certification. He did not Get it.
          He did not have enough operational safety data to satisfy UL. Thus it would require many hours of said data from the Commercial/Industrial units to satisfy this requirement. Rossi has posted this many times on JONP & yet people keep asking.

          An Alternative would have been to build & Operate many 1000’s of these 24/7 with External Over-site for verification. Not a Cheap Option. Likely way beyond his budget.

          Fortunately, Rossi likely has a Major Partner & all this is of little concern for him here on-out.

          Just to Note: These requirements will apply to all those who follow.

      • Ash

        This is Rossi’s exact words from Jan 2012 PESN interview transcript:

        “Now the technology is very solid, the E-Cats now are very stable. We have manufacturing right now, one megawatt plants why for the domestic small E-Cats, we, first of all, we have started the certification process with underwriter laboratories, which will be necessary to sell the E-Cats. And at the same time, we are engineering, right now, we are preparing a totally robotized manufacturing factory, which will be able to produce one million pieces per year.

        […]

        The unit that has to be certified is the unit exactly how it will be when we will put it in.. we have made prototypes of the unit which is much smaller, much lighter, etc. Because it is already engineered to be produced in big quantities. So it is already engineered, and it has been assembled along the directions that already the engineer of UL that is.. I am working with gave us. “

    • GreenWin

      Wow! Look how Ash gamed he “like” counter! Must be running a giant con. Or… disinfo game to throw off the competition?

    • bachcole

      I just keep touching bases with the truths, which are the 2013 Levi Report, human nature, Mike McKubre’s videos and a number of other truths. And the lack of continuing news is simply that. There have been numerous explanations presented here for the lack of news.

      But your behavior, Ash, is morally worse than the faint hearted believers/doubters here. Your behavior is malicious and dishonest. For example, the use of the word “minute” is clearly FUD and clearly dishonest.

    • bachcole

      I just bring to mind the May 2013 Levi Report and the Mike McKubre videos and the universal human desire for money and service, and I have no doubts. The lack of news only means that people are too busy to toss tidbits to the peanut gallery.

      Your behavior, Ash, is more than human weakness or faint heartedness like some people around here. Your behavior is malicious and dishonest, as in your use of the word “minute”.