Beyond E-Cat Heat

An interesting exchange on the Journal of Nuclear physics indicates that there is investigation underway into using the E-Cat for more than just a regular heat source.

Herb Gillis asked the following question:

Dr. Rossi:
Do you think is would be possible to construct an LENR device such as an Ecat with an optically transparent reactor housing (such as a glass, or transparent ceramic material)? If so; this might facilitate use of the device for the direct production of electromagnetic radiation (for example, by use of a phosphor inside the reactor). If “light” could be produced directly it might be useful in a number of ways: For example:
1) Electricity production via photovoltaic conversion, possibly at low temperatures;
2) To conduct photochemical reactions;
3) Illumination; and
4) To pump a laser.
It would be interesting to hear your thinking on the potential for such applications.

Andrea Rossi’s response:

Herb Gills:
We are working on all these items.
I can’t give specific answers now.
Warm Regards,

It sounds like none of these ideas is new for Rossi, and Rossi’s indicates that there is investigation underway into advanced applications for the E-Cat. It only makes sense that if there is intense heat coming from the ‘Rossi Effect’ there must also be intense light — and the uses of light are many, some of which Herb Gillis suggests. There are bound to be more.

As Chief Scientist in the new organization, Rossi must be investigating all kinds of possibilities which are going to need intensive study and development. This new fire opens a door to possibilities that are almost inconceivable. It’s surely more than one man, or one team can manage. Who can guess where all this will lead?

  • MJ

    The reason Rossi is so cagey about this stuff is somewhat different than you might think. Yes, he can’t talk about the cutting edge research because of agreements with his US company (and I am led to believe the US government as well). The other reason is that they are already working on things beyond the rather “pedestrian” ideas of producing light from an E-cat.

    I remember well hearing early in my academic days an explanation of why NASA was not planning an aggressive development of follow-ups to the (wildly successful as it happens) Pioneer 10-11 space probes with the goal of visiting nearby stars. The undeniable logic, which still holds true today, is that there is no use in launching a probe to a distant star today that will be passed by in space by a better probe launched 10 years from now with superior technology.

    The real story with the future of the E-cat is Antihydrogen. Ten or twenty years ago, any discussion of the practical uses of Antihydrogen would have sounded like something Dr. Spock would say to Captain Kirk, but since the astounding results from CERN since 2011 of producing stable Antihyrogen (made from a positron and an antiproton), the race is on.

    I had an eye-opening converation with one of my colleagues at a recent Nuclear Physics conference at the U. of M. Usually I am reluctant to bring up Rossi in academic settings because of the stigma attached to cold-fusion, but after a seemingly sufficient quantity of good wine, I asked my friend if he had seen the independent report on the E-cat. To my surprise, my friend said that he knew all about Rossi, and had in fact communicated with him on the subject of LENR with Antihydrogen. He wouldn’t say more, despite the wine, and even told me with a laugh that nobody working on this would admit to it.

    The trickle we glimpse today will be replaced by a full dam burst in the future.

    • maozhije

      The trickle we glimpse today will be replaced by a full dam burst in the future

      The E-cat is not the only one in the race of LENR market.

      • BroKeeper

        And that’s why LENR is unstoppable – proliferation.

        • bachcole

          Did you deliberately set someone up to say “This is nuclear proliferation that I can live with.”? (:->)

          • BroKeeper

            Hehe. Not
            the mushroom cloud type (no offense 49’r) :)

  • GreenWin

    There is a photograph of what appears to be a DGT reactor embedded in Youtube copy of alternative television’s “Buzzsaw” show. The reactor has a glass (or transparent material) window filled with UV or in Robert Duncan & Randell Mills’ words: soft X-ray. Since the beginning of Mills’ work with Ni/H1 he has demonstrated UV spectra as a confirmation of his below ground state H1 atoms he calls hydrino. Hence, Blacklight Power.

    Listen to the whole interview with James Martinez – a principle in Cold Fusion Now! – it is VERY revealing:

    • GreenWin

      Here is the link again:
      BTW, conversion of UV to electrical energy would likely suffer the same inefficiencies that trouble all PV cells.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Could the x-rays be due to the bremsstrahlung
      created by a beta decay of some sort?

    • Ash

      Mills has not demonstrated hydrino’s, and his UV spectra are measurement errors. Prof Kunze wrote a paper in 2008 demonstrating that Mills was measuring the spectra wrong, and Mills has never responded to the paper. See “On the spectroscopic measurements used to support the postulate of states with fractional principal quantum numbers in hydrogen”. J Phys D: Appl. Phys 41 (10): 108001.

      If hydrino’s are so promising, why did the hydrino study group disband after more than a decade of trying to validate Mills theories?

  • BroKeeper

    Mr. Rossi has admitted “we have found 511 kev gamma rays at the output, which is the mission of a positron and an electron, and a positron is the product of a proton turning into a neutron. Lead and iron shielding prevents its escape to the outside environment. With this in mind the capture of light would have to be encased within the capsule to prevent gamma radiation leak.

    One of the ways to release such intense light would be through laser tubes inserted either within the center of or surrounding the catalyst and discharge it through shielded fiber optics. Converted then to either electrical power or split/defused it into less intense photons for lighting purposes. The possibilities are endless. — Provide power for the Enterprise photon torpedoes? :)

    • Pekka Janhunen

      However, the HotCats tested didn’t have lead shields and Bianchini didn’t find any radiation in its vicinity. I haven’t tried to calculate it, but I think it means that the amount of positrons created inside those reactors, if any, was energetically insignificant.
      Maybe Rossi got positrons in an early phase, but was then able to somehow eliminate them and thus make lead shielding unnecessary.

      • BroKeeper

        Perhaps I’m misunderstanding from previous posts and reports on the
        E-Cat HT:
        –> Lead melting point at 327.5 °C is too low for high temperature
        E-Cat HT shielding.
        –> Gamma Rays first appears at initial startup then
        become insignificant when stable.
        –> Gamma Rays at any time would be unacceptable in safety test
        If these points are correct, would a transparent container be practicable because of its low gamma ray shielding during startup?
        What gamma ray shield would be for the HT?

        • US_Citizen71

          Steel or Boron would work for high temperature shielding.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            But we were discussing gammas, not protons. Boron is a low-Z element so it’s not at all effective against gammas.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          - Pb melting point is too low for HotCat shielding: agreed, except that the lead could also be in molten form.
          - The 2-second gamma burst even was with an early E-cat.

          But my point was the following. Based on Levi et al. and Penon reports, we know the structure of the HotCat: it’s a steel tube of roughly 1 cm thickness. I calculate that 1 cm of iron (steel) scatters only 50% of a 0.5 MeV gamma flux. So the HotCat shielding (steel tube) would be grossly inadequate to shield against any positron-produced gammas. Because Bianchini found no radiation, one can conclude that there can be essentially no 511 keV gammas produced inside the version of HotCat which was used in Levi et al. report. If the gammas are energetically significant (i.e. kilowatt scale power) and since only an unmeasurably small amount of it comes through (according to Bianchini), the shield must reduce the original gamma flux by an extremely large factor. This can only occur if the energetically significant part of gammas (assuming that they are energetically significant in the first place) can be at most 40 keV because at this energy, the flux is reduced by factor 5e-13 by 1 cm of iron.

          If positrons production is energetically important, one needs a quite thick shielding. For example 15 cm of lead reduces 0.5 MeV flux by factor 1.3e-12.

          • Omega Z

            I believe there was mention of a tungsten layer involved as shielding on JONP, tho that post disappeared within a couple days. I believe this is an effective shield of Gamma & X-ray at lower levels.

            • Pekka Janhunen

              2.5 mm tungsten layer reduces 0.5 MeV gamma flux by 50%. Per thickness, tungsten is actually more efficient than lead, although per mass it’s less efficient. Roughly speaking they are equal.

  • bullshitman


  • Fortyniner

    I can’t remember exactly where it was, but I’m sure that at some time someone at Defkalion mentioned a bright light visible from a ‘window’ in a test cell. It seems this may be a characteristic of the Rossi/DGT Ni-H system that could have potential for development as an output. The spectrum emitted would also provide clues as to the mechanism at work, and may be useful as a direct indicator of efficiency during optimisation of the process.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      I remember it also, I think they said it was bright like sun. (Which perhaps means bright compared to normal room lighting rather than literally as bright as the sun.) Maybe it was a piece of discussion on the old DGT website which no longer exists.

      • artefact
        • Fortyniner

          Many thanks, Artefact.

          “I was told that they were trying to actually see what happens in their
          device with some glass with a melting point of 1500degc. They saw it
          light up like the sun and then it melted the glass. This just took a
          second or two. I was told what their working theory was, but they
          really don’t know what is going on. They have brought in several
          academics with a myraid of explanations . . .”


      • Omega Z

        Yes, it melted the glass.