MFMP Hypothesis: Celani Wire Splits Hydrogen

There’s an interesting document published on the Martin Fleischman Memorial Project’s quantumheat.org site in which they propose experimental analysis the Celani wire which is made of a nickel-copper alloy called constantan. They say that some observers of their work are proposing that the excess heat they are measuring in their experiments is caused by the ‘Langmuir effect’ — a phenomenon discovered by Irving Langmuir in the 1920s where a tungsten filament at high temperatures causes hydrogen to split from a molecular state to a ‘monatomic‘ state, and then recombine, releasing energy in the process.

They note that Sergio Focardi said that “said that mono-atomic hydrogen was critical to LENR”, which raises the question of whether there is any connection between the Langmuir effect and LENR. The temperatures that the MFMP have been working at are apparently much lower than those required for the Langmuir effect to take place.

They write:

We are going to test the hypothesis that Celanis’ nano Copper-Nickel wire ‘catalytically’ splits molecular Hydrogen into monatomic Hydrogen.

This is important for a few reasons.  First, there shouldn’t be much to any solitary Hydrogen at these temperatures according to what Langmuir reported.  Second, the Langmuir effect has been proposed as an explanation for why Celanimaybe seeing higher temperatures post calibration.  And, third, the ability to load the metal lattice with monatomic hydrogen is speculated by some to be an important piece for making LENR happen.

The full document which outlines the proposed experimental procedure can be read here. In keeping with their Open Science approach, the MFMP team is looking for guidance from the public at large.

  • Allan Shura

    From what I have garnered one of the main problems with the desktop or non industrialized open source deuterium variety of cold fusion is the reliablility and control of the reaction. It has been
    argued that a condition of failed experiments has been impurities
    on the surface of the electrode. In this case it is the celani wire while consistency has been shown with nano paricles. This would suggest reliablity is directly related to surface area exposed to the water and
    the purity of the surface that simular to silver exposed to air becomes tarnished by the reaction over time. I wonder if anyone has any ideas about this design aspect since it is key to easier to build open source solution products before the IP protected companies launch a product.

  • Omega Z

    In case anyone is interested, Fulvio Fabiani is still working with Rossi as Tech Director of LEONARDO Corp.
    Fulvio Fabiani is presently living in Miami.
    Also, there is no work being done in the Italian facility. It’s all being done in the U.S.A.

  • ecatworld

    Comments were broken for a bit today, should be okay now. No, you don’t have to pay anything to keep commenting!

    • bachcole

      I was thinking that you should be paying me. The wit!!! The charm!!! The insight!!! And don’t forget the humility!!! I could talk all day about the depth and and scope of my humility. I will be giving a class in my humility; it will be called “Roger’s Humility 101”. (:->)

  • HHiram

    I wonder if bound beta decay has any connection to LENR…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_decay#Bound-state_.CE.B2.E2.88.92_decay

    I’m not a physicist, so I don’t know whether hydrogen ionizes differently than other substances, but it seems like induced beta decay is a distinct candidate for explaining LENR phenomena. If there are any physicists here, I’d be interested to know what you think.

    Admin, it might also be worth asking Rossi directly about this.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks for the suggestion, but I don’t like to ask Rossi about his theory because I know what answer I will get.

      • Omega Z

        From what I can gather from sleuthing,
        Rossi’s H-cat operates as a system in unstable equilibrium.
        Thus, I assume certain isotopes being unstable are in constant flux of trying to reach a stable state of equilibrium.

  • Allan Shura

    Defkalion was to be listed on the Toronto stock venture exchange
    today.

    • tombuktu

      I can see no listing of Defkalion at TSX. Even there is no announcement about a listing, but the interview with ToVima (which I have not read by myself).

      So please let us know, what do you mean?

      Thank you

      Tom

      • AlainCo

        at best, and very improbably, maybe you could find them in some registry of candidates… but I don’t think so. this kind of things are usually secret until all is negociated and the public sequence start

      • Allan Shura

        Actually NEX is a separate trading board of TSX Venture Exchange.

    • AlainCo

      in fact no.

      They say they BELIEVE to start to negotiate AFTER15th of october…

      targeting a road show in november…

      after which they may gather enough investors to be registered…

      http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?2285-Defkalion-CEO-Entering-the-Toronto-Stock-Exchange-This-Year
      http://egooutpeters.blogspot.fr/2013/08/great-greek-article-about-defkalion.html
      “About Business there is our listing at the Toronto Stock Market. We are working on our paperwork and we believe that we would be able to negotiate after October 15th, 2013. Starting November 1st, we will hold a Road Show from city to city to promote our share. ”

      my 2cents is that it will be late… Defkalion is always a bit late…

      however this may also accelerate competitors to get out of the wood in november too.

      too much optimistic like most startups.

      • NCkhawk

        Have they listed an Underwriter yet? That must be one brave (or foolish) soul.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Beware, scam, scam, scam.

  • Chris I

    The Celani wire is made starting from constantan, which is an alloy of nickel and copper (not hydrogen). As far as I’ve made out, he etches its surface chemically, removing most of the copper in order to have a porous nickel.

    I haven’t read the whole doc yet, but if the hydride forms while it is in gasseous hydrogen, then it is plain obvious that somehow the hydrogen’s state is changing from molecular to atomic or ionic. I don’t get what this guy is adding, unless there is more in the doc. I’ll take a look at it tomorrow.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks for catching my error, Chris — fixed in the post now.

  • Wes

    If there was any doubt that we humans are not a very wise species when it comes to the application of technology, the “Blue Brain” project nails the point. According to an
    article in NetWorkedWorld.com, IBM’s “Blue Brain” project’s goal is described below. Talk about a disruptive technology!

    By 2020, robots will be physically superior to humans. IBM’s Blue Brain project,
    for instance, is a 10-year mission to create a human brain using hardware and
    software. “They believe that within a decade they’ll start to see
    consciousness emerge with this brain,” Evans says.

    By 2025, the robot population will surpass the number of humans in the developed world. By 2032, robots will be mentally superior to humans. And by 2035, robots could completely replace humans in the workforce.

    • GreenWin

      Thank goodness for Police Detective Del Spooner and the Three Laws of Robotics.

    • bachcole

      “They believe that within a decade they’ll start to see consciousness emerge with this brain,” Evans says.

      LOL Just how shallow and stupid can human beings be?!?!

    • fibbermcgourlick

      Some of them are already physically superior–and hugely so–in many ways. But with current technology if their brains were to be made conscious they’d be about the size as the empire state building. But some day an amalgam of them and us will be the standard being on this planet.

      • Daniel Maris

        “if their brains were to be made conscious” –

        And how are you going to achieve that? As John Searle pointed out, in principle you could construct a large computer out of rusty tin cans powered by windmills, to perform the same calculations. Do we really believe that would make the rusty tin cans and windmills “conscious”?

        • bachcole

          The only way to fully understand and appreciate consciousness is to fathom the depths of your own being. There is no other way.

          • Buck

            Have you read Bhante Gunaratana’s “Mindfulness in Plain English” ? I recommend it if you haven’t.

    • Omega Z

      It’s thought that connecting Millions of Computers together could lead to a self awareness. Consciousness. At least that was one researchers Opinion in the Early 80’s.
      Lets try that.

      Nope. Didn’t happen. And neither will “Blue Brain”. It may be simulated by software & Hardware. But not real. Just algorithms. Of course if it done well enough, we may be able to delude ourselves into believing it is.

      Years ago, it was determined that the Human brain works at a fraction of the speed of light. In fact works much slower then electrical pulses of a computer Even tho the brain sends electrical pulses. They speculated that this may be to due with the signal passing thru multiple nodes by indirect line?

      Yet Studies also seemed to indicate that signals from 1 side of the brain to the other were received faster then an electrical pulse. Science was in a state of confusion.

      The Advent of Quantum Entanglement.
      Maybe all the released chemicals & Electric pulses in the brain are for maintenance of the brain & memories, but the actual information is transferred at the quantum level And proposed by some Scientists to be connected to a Cosmic consciousness.
      If any of this gobbledegook is even close to being right, Then we don’t need to be concerned about computers becoming self-aware until we truly understand quantum mechanics & Entanglements.

      • bachcole

        I have a much easier (Occam friendlier, and I am sure that he would approve) explanation. Rather than a computer, quantum or otherwise, the brain is a transceiver, receiving and transmitting signals from the body to and from the spirit. There are people with extremely phucked up brains who manage quite well. I and thousands if not millions of other people have had out-of-body and near-death experiences. I am not crazy. I may be a “wild-and-crazy” kind of guy, but I am otherwise perfectly normal. Frank might say that I am a little impulsive. My wife says that I am “gago”, Filipino for crazy, but that is a term of affection. My son chants “My wonderful daddy ko” while working on the computer, “ko” being an article in my wife’s language that he picked up. So this is absolute prove (:->) that I am not crazy.

        • Omega Z

          I in No way think your crazy.

          Just because Science can’t explain it doesn’t mean it’s not real.

          • bachcole

            Science assumes materialism. It does not prove materialism; it cannot prove materialism; materialism is an unprovable assumption. The scientific method can be applied to non-physical things. And the scientific method does not have a monopoly on knowing with certainty. It is a GREAT aid, but not the only means of knowing. People in love are very certain, but there is no and can be no proof that the other person will love you back forever and ever.

            As to crazy, that is mostly used as a way to discredit people. Remember that Alfred Wegener was called crazy for 50 years. I think that people who blow-up school buses full of children in the name of G0D was quite crazy, beyond crazy. But they are not mentally ill, and they may be perfectly capable of doing advanced calculus in their head.

  • Pedro

    Nice paper about Langmuir: http://www.gifnet.org/articles/Langmuir%20&%20Atomic%20Hydrogen.pdf
    Interesting read. It gets better starting from page 12

    • Pedro

      Spoiler… In the analysis, the author claims that the dissociation energy of H2 only 103 cal/mol is, whilst the association energy 90000 cal/mol is. Unfortionately, the 103 cal/mol must be 103 Kcal/mol, which is 103000 cal/mol. No sign of over unity.

      • bachcole

        Yes, if the COP was around 1000, then the first time some poor welder lit one up would be his last time to light one up.

  • bachcole

    I have thought some more about Duncan moving to Texas Tech. For sure it is either a way to stifle him, sort of pay him off to stop doing LENR, or to help Texas Tech with LENR. I am strongly inclined to think the later. It seems to me that we should be partying about Mr. and Mrs. Duncan moving to Texas Tech. What do you think?

    I can’t imagine that anyone would think that offering him and his wife great jobs in another state (a hotter state, temperature wise) could discourage LENR. I can’t imagine that Duncan’s enthusiasm for LENR is going to be any less in Texas than it was in Missouri.

    • Zedshort

      He was invited by someone to Texas Tech and that person obviously knows Dr. Duncan’s association with LENR. It is very unlikely that he is trying to duck out of his association as it does not seem to be a part of his very open character. Far less likely that anyone would give him what appears to be a promotion to shut him up and anyway I don’t think you could silence him.

    • Omega Z

      Skinr is still there with the people Duncan brought in as well as the Israeli project in the U. of M. Incubator center. Nothing has been stopped.

    • NCkhawk

      They offered his wife Ann a nice position as well so this was a package deal. Those folks in Texas wanted this to happen and I think they are going to greatly benefit from their upcoming investment in these two.

  • bejammin075

    Could the local temperature on or inside the wire be hotter than what the thermometers measure? I’m assuming that the thermometers are not right ON the wire, but some small distance away.

  • Gordon Docherty

    There is no doubt that the recombination of monatomic hydrogen leads to energy production, as seen in the Langmuir effect – it is the basis for hydrogen arc welding that was initially very popular but then mysteriously died out in the late twenties when it was realized that the process of hydrogen dissociation / recombination through an arc was over-unity, and might even be a source of energy in its own right, if the hydrogen atoms could be recombined in a controlled fashion (more info via “atomic hydrogen process / atomic hydrogen welding / Moller’s Atomic Hydrogen Generator (MAHG))” – H2->H consumes ~103 cal/gram mole. When this is done using an electric arc, the atomic hydrogen becomes very energetic – it has picked up energy from the Zero Point field, no less. The proof of this is in 2 x H recombining to form H2: when done this way (via an electric arc onto a metal plate,), the energy released is ~109,000 cal/gram mole with no H consumed, or over 1000 times more energy out than in.

    This is also why you can pass your hand through a hydrogen torch flame without burning it, yet melt tungsten with that same “flame” (hotter than oxy-acetylene) as the hydrogen recombines on contact with the metal lattice (sounds familiar).

    See also Lyne’s Atomic Hydrogen Furnace, based on work done on Atomic Hydrogen Welding from the early part of the 20th century and best understood in terms of Tesla’s work on energy released from arcs.

    For more inform on the Atomic Hydrogen Furnace, the following web-site is a good place to start:

    http://www.nrgnair.com/MPT/

    and its sibling page:

    http://www.nrgnair.com/MPT/02AIR/atm.h2a.htm

    which also includes the subject of HHO (Browns Gas) and helps explain where Browns Gas gets its energy from and what Stan Meyer was trying to achieve with his water-powered car (passing H2 or HHO through a modified high-voltage spark plug spark, of course the spark plug being another one of Tesla’s inventions)

    • Pedro

      Hi Gordon, I looked up the dissociation energy of H2 and it seems to be 103 Kcal/mol, ie 103000 cal/mol.

    • bitplayer

      I want to believe, however, for speculative alternative energy, the probability of reality seems to be some function of:
      > quantity of existing high quality experimental evidence
      > potential claimed benefit
      > cost and difficulty of experiment

      Re the hydrogen furnace, there seems to be easy experiment, lots of benefit, but not much high quality experimental evidence. How so?

      • Gordon Docherty

        Agreed – still, good to know what else is being talked about, one way or the other, and this stuff has been out on the web for a while – I like to compare and contrast different ideas, as sometimes new, more important ideas pop out. Serendipity may happen by chance (bad joke, I know), but it can sometimes be helped along 🙂

  • http://www.libertynewspost.com/ Liberty Newspost

    MFMP was spending Mr. Hunts money for a long time before they started asking for donations.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Are you sure MFMP was not asking for money? Everything I see from them seems to be begging for cash.