Rossi: No Industrial E-Cat for Pizza Ovens

On the Journal of Nuclear Physics Steven Karels recently suggested to Andrea Rossi that a the E-Cat would be a suitable power source for commercial pizza ovens which he says typically run 12-16 hours per day at temperatures of around 350C, consuming 6 kW of electric power. Karels suggested that this kind of application would make a good intermediate level E-Cat application, between the domestic and large industrial units.

Andrea Rossi’s response to the suggestion was simply, “This is a use for which the domestic certification is necessary” — meaning, I take it, that this kind of application would not be possible with the industrial E-Cat plants. Rossi gave a similar response to question about whether the industrial E-Cat plants would be suitable for heating an apartment complex, saying domestic certification would be requires, and industrial plants would work only on a district heating level.

My guess is that the strategy for Rossi and Co. is first to install the industrial units in places where they can be tightly controlled from a security point of view with constant surveillance in place to prevent tampering or theft. I suspect that along with safety certification issues, intellectual property concerns will initially keep the Partners from trying to put out small units very rapidly. Rossi has said in the past that his strategy with the domestic units, once certification is obtained, is eventually to flood the market with cheap units to dissuade competitors from reverse engineering and copying. But to do that, they would need massive production facilities in place — something that is unlikely to be the case at the moment.

  • Paul Smith
  • Peter Shwartz

    The ABC, Australia’s National T.V. Broadcaster on a mid morning news take had an item on Nuclear Energy. The news reader, when I saw the item, looked a little perplexed and seemed not to have a grasp on the subject (LENR); however, explained a potentially a new source of energy! At least national news here in Australia; something must be about to bust 🙂

  • Siriusman

    Will we seen LENR enter the public consciousness within a matter of weeks? It is nearly mid-October, so if we believe earlier reports about Defkalion’s plans, that should be the case:

    “In business terms it would be entry onto the Toronto Stock Exchange which they think they can join after October 15th. This will be followed by a ‘roadshow’ to promote the stock. As part of the registration of the stock they will have to disclose the partners — this should happen in October.”

    If Defkalion actually have the goods, and they enter the TSX, it will be game over for the skeptics. Claims from Alex Xanthoulis, (president of Defkalion) include:

    – Collaboration is on going with six companies for development of particular applications. Several of these companies are among the 10 major companies in the world. Concerned applications are: UAVs, computers, water boilers, electric power generation, green houses, ship propulsion (managed by Defkalion), automobile, water desalinization/purification (non profit organization) and big turbines.

    – Agreements for licensing of manufacturing of a consumer product — the Hyperion — is signed with companies in Italy, France, Greece (Defkalion 50%), Canada and South Africa. 1,300 companies in about 78 countries are interested. The license price has previously been EUR 40.5 million.

    Public acknowledgement by one (or more) large companies that they have paid 40.5 M euros to Defkalion will be THE game-changing event. The mainstream media can happily ignore scientific publications forever. I think they will find it more difficult to avoid this level of business involvement.

    Can we trust Defkalion? Who believes these events are about to take place? I really hope they do, but I am trying to maintain a rational level of excitement.

    • artefact

      “Who believes these events are about to take place?”
      I believe they TRY to make it happen.

    • Masterlock2020

      If not Defkalion then it will be Brillouin. They seem to the the only ones who actually understand the physics of it, which should make for a superior product.

  • soot
    • Buck

      And achieving that COP > 1 only cost $3.5B

      • Peter Shwartz

        “Cheep” at half the price. Heh, heh, heh.

        • Doktor Bob

          I wonder how long before they make a profit 🙂

  • Sanjeev

    Not targeting small application will surely leave the consumer segment wide open for other competitors.
    It looks like he assumes that it will take a long time to get certification for domestic use, so he gives it low priority. What if one of his competitor gets the certification first, all they need to do it to remove the word nuclear from the description and apply in EU or Asia, where the major market is.
    The future is distributed energy and Rossi is going for centralized monopolistic model based on secrecy, what can go wrong?
    All that needs to happen is one ECat customer goes public and investor money will start raining on competitors and new comers everywhere.

    • Buck

      I disagree with your assessment for the following basic reason: every single competitor is presented with the same landscape. The following are just a few issues/factors.

      1. Fierce opposition and vested interests having a PROVEN willingness to play dirty politics.

      2. The requirements of proof of safety sufficient to appease Government regulators about a ‘fringe’ technology with active physics at a nuclear level.
      3. A cultural bias towards acceptance by business due to Profit Motive, ‘Benign Dictatorship’ decision process, operational infrastructure (manpower & safety procedures) in support of ‘complex machinery’, financial resources, etc.

      4. The new and evolving operational/maintenance needs for managing LENR units at customer locations
      5. A relatively moderate pace of Consumer and Business acclimation to what LENR means and the opportunities opened for economic gain and the consequent creation of new and expanding market niches.

      5. LENR Company’s limited resources
      6. Rapidly evolving LENR technology over the 1st 5-10 years with the consequent rapid evolution of the actual LENR product for all the different niches.

      With these, as well as others, there is a very strong argument that all LENR companies will choose to ignore consumers until the there is a greater sense of acceptance of LENR at ALL levels.

      I speculate even the likes of GE, with its vast resources, will choose to ignore Consumer LENR for most if not all markets.

      The only exception I can imagine is for specific countries which are willing to bypass the Political and Regulatory hurdles concerning consumer product safety due to a overriding need for energy.

      Even then, it still makes too much sense to target industrial LENR installations as a first market to enter because of the inherent revolutionary nature of the LENR technology.

  • Sanjeev

    Q&A with Ugo Abundo on newly forming Open Power Association
    http://coldfusionnow.org/qa-with-ugo-abundo-on-newly-forming-open-power-association/

    Says they filed a patent.

  • bfast

    Commercial or domestic, I don’t care. I soooo want to see someone running one of these machines. I also sooo want the world to realize that this technology exists.

    • Omega Z

      I agree bfast. I just want to see 1 in the market. Everything else will follow of it;s own accord.

  • bachcole

    But remember, Rossi is not the only player NOW who HAS LENR+, NOW. So his problem is not only about selling as many units as possible before someone reverse engineers his invention.

  • Casey

    Yes, you right.
    It is easier to control one or multiple of 1 MW devices in one place than hundreds or thousands in private homes.
    Also it is better, in reduction of production costs and keeping of energy prices at most profitable level..