Rossi on his Restrictions

People who have been following the E-Cat story for any length of time have noticed that over recent months he has been less free and open in sharing information about his work on the Journal of Nuclear Physics. A poster on the site today called attention to the fact and asked Rossi why this was the case. Here is his response.

Andrea Rossi
September 20th, 2013 at 10:37 AM
Jan.Gustavsson:
Honestly, I think you are right and I understand your feeling. As a matter of fact, in these last months my situation is strongly changed, because the validation and R&D work is shared with a Team that thinks it is not opportune to give any specific information before the end of the very throughly work of validation, tests, R&D in course upon the plants that have been manufactured and delivered to the Customer. This decision has been taken by the Team I am part of and I think this choice is proper. I can guarantee you that when we will have reached consoliated results, positive or negative, such results will be shared with the scientific community and eventually with the wider public, with a press conference that will be made by our communication agency. Totally different is the situation regarding the third indipendent party, whose work is made indipendent from us: the results of their work, whatever will be after the 6 months- 1 year test period, will be published from the Professors of the third indipendent party when and where they will decide, so I do not know whatever they will do, which will be totally indipendent from me.
All this will limit my communication, until the reports will be published, but, nevertheless, I will say what I will be permitted to.
Take also in consideration that my work now is much more intense, if possible, than before and the time at my disposal has been further narrowed.
Thank you for your kind attention,
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I think that many people have been able to deduce what has been going on, and now Rossi has confirmed that he has been put on a short leash by his new partners with regards to sharing details on what is going on. It probably does not suit him too well — I think he likes to communicate about his work, but he is a disciplined person, and I am sure will fulfill the agreements he has made with his team.

It makes me wonder how much use Rossi has for the Journal of Nuclear Physics now. He has often said how much he has learned from people posting on his site, but it’s likely that he is getting much of his advice on developing the E-Cat from members of his team, who seem to consist of experienced engineers and scientists. I expect he will still be happy to get input and suggestions from JONP readers, but they are probably not as valuable to him as they once were.

I am glad he has not shut the JONP down. Despite the muzzling that has been imposed, he still makes interesting posts, and as the only person publicly identified with the new E-Cat team, he is a valuable source of information for those of us curious to know what is going on. I am of the conclusion that some information, however vague, is better than nothing. I’m hoping we won’t have to wait too long until the news conference he speaks of will be held.

  • Ryan

    Couple of interesting articles I just perused over on Next Big Future that might be of aid to those working on LENR devices:
    http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/09/new-hydrophobic-material-could-benefit.html
    This one is about a new hydrophobic coating that could help in steam condensers used in electricy generation and desalination.

    http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/09/new-sensor-could-prolong-lifespan-of.html
    This new sensor is able to withstand high temps, in the range of about 1200 C and still maintain accurate readings and minimize drift degradation that can result in faulty temp readings and thus lead to other problems.

    Thought both were fairly interesting developments.

  • Robyn Wyrick

    Personally, I’m shocked – shocked – to see that Rossi has not introduced his world-changing technology on a timetable more accommodating to me.

    I simply don’t understand why people with world-changing technologies don’t change my world faster. Like yesterday.

    It just seems impolite that Rossi has waited this long – why didn’t he launch it in the 1950s? He was alive, so the E-Cat must have been ready for a public launch.

    And on that topic, I read all the time about scientists and inventors finding new wonders: so why am I still bald?

    Why can’t these people – who are not me – make my life perfect on a schedule that I want?

    They must be frauds.

    • Roger Bird

      It’s a conspiracy. I just know it is.

      • Omega Z

        We shall have to wait until they start going bald. Then they will consider it to be of utmost urgency.

        Wait a minute. They’re way younger then Us.
        This isn’t going to work in our favor is it. Dang!

    • AlainCo

      it takes 5 years to bring a lab prototype invention to the market as an innovation. And most of the dream get washed away meanwhile…

      Meanwhile, every actor is convinced it will work in 6 month.
      One symptom it will be real soon is when you are less optimistic, and plan for 1 year…

      Rossi start to show his product in 2011, but I noticed he start to work like a corp only late 2011… so it will be on the market in 2016…

      same for defkalion.

      same for brillouin.

      later for Lenuco…

    • fortyniner

      You’re right Robyn, enough is enough. If Rossi doesn’t pull something pretty spectacular out of his hat PDQ, there could be a massive wave of petulant foot stamping and perhaps even some hissy fits.

      • Roger Bird

        LOL. I love this forum.

  • Roger Bird

    From https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~scranmer/SPD/crichton.html

    “In past centuries, the greatest killer of women was fever following childbirth. One woman in six died of this fever. In 1795, Alexander Gordon of Aberdeen suggested that the fevers were infectious processes, and he was able to cure them. The consensus said no. In 1843, Oliver Wendell Holmes claimed puerperal fever was contagious, and presented compelling evidence. The consensus said no. In 1849, Semmelweiss demonstrated that sanitary techniques virtually eliminated puerperal fever in hospitals under his management. The consensus said he was a Jew, ignored him, and dismissed him from his post. There was in fact no agreement on puerperal fever until the start of the twentieth century. Thus the consensus took one hundred and twenty five years to arrive at the right conclusion despite the efforts of the prominent “skeptics” around the world, skeptics who were demeaned and ignored. And despite the constant ongoing deaths of women.”

    The entire article is excellent and relevant to our situation with LENR.

    • roseland67

      Roger Bird,

      The article may be relevant then, but not as it relates to Rossi now.
      The advent of internet technology has allowed the sharing of information instantly across the globe. If this ability had been available then for analysis/review, solutions would have been developed in days/weeks/months, eliminating untold amounts of pain, misery and suffering and saving many, many thousands of lives.

      Again,
      If Rossi has what he says, it is safe, reproducable, cheap, reliable, repairable, emission free, regardless of the theory, it will be be reverse engineered and available globally with a year.

      If all above is true, can we then compare Rossi to say, Jonas Salk, and if so does he, Rossi, OWE this ECAT to mankind.

      As usual, I’m from Missouri

      • Roger Bird

        I follow and advocate on the Internet a handful of edgy issues, including but not limited raw milk, homeopathy, paleo Weston A. Price diets, alternative healing in general, no vaccinations, etc. etc. etc. I have been advocating for some of these issues for about 16 years. I know that I am right for the most part on all of these subjects from my own experience. But rapid communication does not seem to help all that much. Perhaps I am just expecting too much too soon. But people can be deliberately daft just for the sake of ego or prestige (another form of ego) and money and jobs.

        Frank, it looks nice, but it still freezes my “Enter” key and disappears the sizing tab in the lower right.

        • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

          Sorry about your posting problem, Roger. I am not sure I quite understand your problem. If you would, please send me an email with more info about it, and I’ll check into it.

          Thanks!

          • Roseland67

            No worries,
            Thank you

  • psi

    Speaking of restrictions and possibilities, I thought you good folks on this site (which I so much enjoy reading), would enjoy and appreciate this bit of witty wisdom about the relative virtue of questions and answers:

    http://comicsthatsaysomething.quora.com/A-Day-at-the-Park?ref=fb

  • Roger Bird

    We are all of equal value. We are not all of equal abilities. Someone like Steve Jobs is more productive than I am. People on the left think that because we are all of equal value we should all get equal rewards, and these people want to convert society to one that rewards everyone equally. But, does anyone here want me to be paid the same as someone like Steve Jobs? I thought not. It would be absurd. It would harm society. The Steve Jobs types would say forget about it I’m going to go fishing. And also, I want the Steve Jobs types to have access to most of the excess wealth because they are going to use it more wisely than I am.

    People on the right, the hard right, the Ayn Rand right, want a society based exclusively on what a person can earn, and to he11 with everyone else. I am certain that this is also a bad move for society. We have numerous examples in the world, like Guatemala, where life for the majority is he11. That just isn’t acceptable.

    There must be a balance. How we make for a balance is essential. If the mountain of society is too steep, then people can’t climb it and those on the bottom are crushed. If the mountain of society is not steep enough, then there is no incentive and no leadership. Balance is everything.

    • Christina

      Bravo! That’s good, Roger Bird!

      • Roger Bird

        Thank you, Christina. I think that a transcendental orientation makes it easier to appreciate what I just said. Others will simply dismiss it. I think.

    • Omega Z

      +1

    • Buck

      +1

  • Adam Lepczak

    This is actually a good news. It seems that he is working with a team of people who have an influence on him.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    It’s always surprised me that there have been no leaks to the press about the installed plants–where they are and what they’re doing…Even the NSA can’t keep its activities secret. Pefect silence about transformational goings-on in this media-crazy world? It’s strange.

    • Bertuswonkel

      When i think of NDA’s i always have to think of the victims of Shale gas operations. Their lives had been destroyed but they are often forced to settle with energy companies due to the huge legal expanses and health care cost. If they want to get and keep the money, they need to sign an NDA to never speak about their case to anybody. These people must be very very angry, frustrated and would like nothing more then to warn others. Yet, the NDA’s are able to keep them silent.

      The secrets leaked by Snowden and Manning were supposed to stay secret for ever. That’s why they leaked it although they knew that a heavy penalty would follow. In Rossis case things will be known anyways within lets say 2 years. Why risk everything to be the first to tell people. First appearances matter a lot, so i can understand that the company wants full control over the introduction of the product. Furthermore, maybe the team is not very big and working very closely together. The source of the leak might be easily found. The person will be kicked out and forced to pay millions of dollars, not a very nice prospect. You lose your job working on a revolutionary product and you are bankrupted. I don’t think is that strange, there is a lot the public never hears anything about.

      • BillyGiuseppe Rosencrantz

        I worry more about the victims of BigFoot.

      • KD

        How it stay secret? Just from other case, example.
        It was over one thousand Catholic priests acused of rapes and secsual molestations over ten thousands of victims.
        The American Catholic Dioceses paid close to $2.5 billions in damages.
        But public don’t know, how much each person received or or what each priest has done.:))

    • ebevogon

      It is only surprising if you believe Rossi that there is a customer and that there are installed plants.

      • Omega Z

        IF? If you were in the inner circle of something of this Nature, Would you go public.

        Forget the legal issues. You would be ostracized. You would be shut out. NO one would ever involve you again. And you would be Like Us. Only able to speculate.

        No longer being a Part of the daily Successes or the let downs. Being 1 of those working to overcome major obstacles.
        Being in the KNOW.

        A lot to lose. There are many who would if they could work on this project for Nothing. And I strongly suspect a few have. It’s not even the knowledge that you may be credited for helping. It is an Inner pride that you were there. Even if know one should ever know. AND, Imagine getting paid to do this.

        This is how real secrets are kept. It involves self worth. No one can give you more then that.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Rossi is moving quickly. When compared with how long it takes to get a new drug into the market place (discovery to process development to clinical trials) or an agricultural chemical (discovery to process development to environmental studies like toxicity to fish and birds…et cetera), waiting another year for Rossi’s results is nothing.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      +1

    • Felix Fervens

      Seems to me a year is forever in the modern world of product development cycles. Rossi is going to get caught with his pants down if he keeps laboring over endless testing while competitors bring actual products to the public.

      At a minimum he will lose the financing wars when a competitor shows a product openly enough to dispel doubters. Guess his secretive partners aren’t so interested in a few paltry billion in capital a proven product will generate in investments.

      Or maybe they will come out of the closet next week with results. Let’s hope.

      • GreenWin

        Anyone who has worked in commercial product development knows the road from lab confirmation to even specialized industrial products – is a long one. Long term burn-in, safety and QA testing is mandatory to establish critical data such as MTBF, materials compromise, fuel/catalyst consumption, variance etc.

        The path the Rossi team is on sounds perfectly aligned with introduction of a product with certain guarantees for safe, effective operation. Coming to market too soon, with not enough critical testing, produces stuff like the Ford Pinto, Chevy Corvair or Mitsubishi Montero.

        • Felix Fervens

          It won’t take a finalized commercial product to ensure $billions to the manufacturer, just a believable product.

          That said, insanely complex next-gen computers and electronics operate on cycles measured in months or weeks. These are not just plumbing supplies with a heating element either.

          • Jim

            “next-gen” + “months or weeks” = does not compute

            Months or weeks refers to iterations of existing products, not first time, one of a kind technologies.

            Also, software and chips (which are themselves mostly the product of software-intensive design and production) are much easier to manipulate than physical energy systems. Compare the performance histories of electronics versus batteries, or the struggles of bio-fuels to the leaps and bounds of cell phones.

            • Felix Fervens

              Elon Musk designs, builds and launches cutting edge new rockets in these timescales.

              Plus for Rossi, these *are* iterations of existing products he’s had for years now. Moreover, it is an iteration on the very mature technology of steam and water heating. The bill of materials looks pretty darned simple; the product module looks like a pipe you could hold in one hand.

              • Jim

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX

                Read about spacex timelines: not weeks and months, in fact years.

                AND SpaceX started on top of 50 years of rocket technology.

                AND re bill of materials, most of the weight of a iPhone is silica and plastic…so what does that say about its functionality? Is optimizing the pipe diameter the hard part of developing a commercial Hot Cat?

                • Felix Fervens

                  Musk says he could build an entire prototype Hyperloop train in as little as 1 year. He has introduced new rocket designs in much less time.

                  The scale and apparent simplicity (once catalyst is revealed) of the E-Cat would make it a candidate for a good garage tinkerer to build one in a few days or weeks. Doesn’t appear to be rocket science 🙂

                • Jim

                  “prototype in a year”… and then the commercially acceptable product?

                  Any concrete evidence on “new rocket designs in much less time”?

                  Do you personally know any garage tinkerers with the equipment needed to formulate any of the reactant materials used in any of the leading LENR designs?

              • GreenWin

                Perhaps the more germane question Felix is, how many over-unity LENR devices have been built and verified (Levi-Elforsk) in the history of mankind?

                And why are you so bothered by Rossi’s development cycle? Sounds like more skeptobabble to me.

                • Felix Fervens

                  Law of Accelerating Returns and exponential pace of technology is rendering one year an eternity in technological progress. Alvin Toffler and Ray Kurzweil see it clearly.

                  The optimist says that if not Rossi, some competitor will push LENR past the objections of even the hardened skeptics before a long year’s time.

                  Of course, I might be branded one of those hated “pathoskeptics” or “skeptobabblers” for so opining. The dogmatic knee jerks to pejoratives in an almost cult-like manner when one disagrees.

      • Babble

        As a former (retired) engineer with a large computer company, I can say that next gen product development was about 9 to 12 months. That was a strain to do and we were pretty well staffed with knowledgeable people.

        E-Cat is new technology that in the end may not be very complex, it still probably needs computer control. It must also pass FCC emissions and safety agency testing. This itself can take a lot of work. Our lives won’t change instantly but I think this product will eventually change them (or at least my children’s).

  • daniel maris

    “…or negative”! This is when you throw your hands up in despair with Rossi… How can he contemplate any negative results as he has been working with this technology for several years now.

    • Allan Kiik

      Just to play a devils advocate, this is possible if we have here a case of pathological science. It started with burning of the finger using lithium battery as power source… It can happen easily without anomalous heat, just with the resistor with much smaller resistance and unchecked. Remember the Rossi-Focardi paper on JONP where they claim COP over two hundred, but with less precise measurements when compared to ELFORSK tests with COP around 3. It’s easy to argue for pathological science when COP goes dramatically down with improved measurements and calibration, and ‘negative’ means COP less than 1, right?
      We can add here recent impressive demo from Defkalion, it did look like real thing until some ‘mistake’ was found by their italian representative (we do not know until today if this mistake was enough to bring COP down under 1 and silence after that does not sound good).
      We can also add MFMP-s obvious failure to replicate Celani, even with original Celani wire and full cooperation. So it can be argued that MFMP did better work with calibration and controls than Celani himself, right?

      So it definitely looks like claims are getting smaller with better measurements and this is a main symptom of pathological science.

      We don’t know if there is any controllable high power LENR experiment in the world with certainty and we can only hope that there are, until now.

      • Bertuswonkel

        Rossi also reported transmutations and Defkalion reported magnetic fields. There are more clues then just heat but it is the most cheap, fast and easy measurement to make.

    • Pedro

      Probably legal lingo forced on him by his partner?
      If the partner is a public company, they have to be very carefull how they phrase things. As soon as they are sure about some new development, they have to “disclose” this to their shareholders. By saying “positive or negative” they can postpone disclosure. This may all be to avoid future law suits.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Right, that language from Rossi started right after the “partner” took control.

    • Anonymole

      Are you just catching on to that exit plan? Rossi has been saying it for months. It’s just classic backtracking and CYA verbiage.

      Other’s are:

      • “the team says” so I’m off the hook.
      • further testing 6mo. or a year. (A YEAR now? Great posturing.)
      • additional third party tests will have nothing to do with me. Promise.
      • a press release when were ready. (Yeah, we’ll plan on it.)
      • “I’m really busy, can’t talk now.” But I have time to read all the posts on JONP and respond to those.

      One man’s words, posted to a blog. Nothing more.

    • Omega Z

      daniel

      Could be problems with efficiency when incorporated to a Turbine.
      We tend to forget this is still in R&D. Any number of problems could pop up. Less then a year go, it was undergoing it’s 1st official 3rd party test.

      According to Cures, a vast number of tests are being done.
      At the same time they are trying to design the H-Cat to meet existing Turbine specs. If that’s not feasible, then redesign of Turbines may be required. this could cause major delays. It may even be necessary to go at this from both ends to make a reliable product.

      Cures also gave an Approximate (Intended) timeline of 18 months for the 1st energy generating product. He also indicated a 6 month allowance for unexpected problems that could pop up, However, It’s not clear if that is 12 months +6 or 18 months +6.

      One thing is Certain. These tests will be done to provide a precise COP expectations & stressed to the max to determine any & all possible Risks involved. These will be necessary in order to start large scale production & sales.

      Note, Any delay could be consider bad news, not only to us, but to Rossi & the Partner. Delays are serious in a Horse Race.
      2nd or 3rd place gets little notice. The winner gets most of the thunder…

  • Pedro

    OT: Coursera (www.coursera.org) is starting a free 7-week internet course called “Surviving Disruptive Technologies” in which they discuss ways for companies and individuals to deal with disruptive new technology. Examples discussed are Kodak and Blockbuster who didn’t survive, and other companies that addapted successfully.
    If you never heard about coursera, go and check the website…. hunderds of free university grade courses for free.
    (BTW, another great website is http://www.ted.org)

    • Curbina

      Thanks Pedro, I’m a courserian, but the course base has grown so much that this slipped from my radar.

  • Fred

    I thought all working free energy schemes were silenced by big brother eventually 🙂

    • BroKeeper

      Fred,

      Yes, usually innovative devices in their infancy following its early discovery and its threatening implications are realized by the corporate beasts. These “Big Brothers” then attempt to cease or control the invention and inventors by money bribes, political manipulation, or IP theft for their own use (Robert Kearns, the inventor of intermittent windshield wipers).

      This however, is a different situation. After nearly 25 years from its birth, Cold Fusion or LENR has not been entirely stopped or controlled. Because of its scientific discredit of Fleischmann and Pons presentation by self serving MIT physicists and reactionary media, forced the new energy discoveries underground from public scrutiny. The PTBs believed the damage was complete.

      However, truth can never be forever suppressed especially with unbiased scientists and inventors; “paradigm” is not in their language. One after another these truth dedicated physicists/scientists replicated multiple times the first F&P experiment. Imaginative inventors and engineers then picked this up by developing different methods and cheaper materials.

      All this was under the radar and ironically jammed by the very “skeptopaths” considered by most the guardians of truth (blessed be the “skeptopaths”). Fortunately this provided plenty of cover and time for LENR to establish footholds globally to where no one powerful entity can stifle its social equalizing destiny. Should it be possible for one LENR device be controlled demographically by PTBs, many others will arise elsewhere.

      We are beginning to see utilities and energy giants capitulating to its powerless inevitability under ecological and economic social pressures. This is why more LENR devices are arising now; safer to peek their heads above ground thus more-the-merrier for competitive pricing – a win, win for all.

      Radar is receiving more UFO blips.

  • Italo R.

    Yes, it seems there are *two plants” with two separate teams for R&D, and one Customer.

    Rossi writes himself his messages on JoNP: note “indipendent”

  • Sandy

    Leonardo Corporation has purchased Unit 105 of Alton South, a condominium located at 1220 Alton Road, Miami Beach, Florida. The “Warranty Deed” for this unit is in the Miami-Dade County Recorder’s Official Records; Book 28794, Page 1511. The deed was recorded on August 28, 2013. The deed can be viewed online with a compatible Java application.

    https://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/Search.aspx

    • Omega Z
      • artefact

        hehe. great…

    • Boris Ivanoff

      What do we make of that?

      • Sandy

        Leonardo Corporation got $200,000 from somewhere to make this purchase. Perhaps that money came from Rossi’s partners, after they determined that the E-Cat is a legitimate technology.

        • Omega Z

          Yes, Rossi has already received a large sum of money & a state of the art lab & all the toys that go with it. 🙂

          To accompany this, He also has a highly qualified team of experts in multiple disciplines. It’s no longer people that come & go dependent on Rossi’s finances at any particular moment. Everyone is on the same page, same place.

          Maybe the World will receive a Major message of hope by Christmas of 2014 or the start the year 2015 with a Major Media Event.

          Although I hope we receive some positive results from the Elforsk Test by July of 2014.

  • a

    “It probably does not suit him too well — I think he likes to communicate about his work”

    You really believe that?

    • fortyniner

      Why else would he have set up JONP then used it as a blog? The idea that he had been requested to tone down any information flow is entirely consistant with his story.

      Admin: Not that it matters at all, but no personal icons seem to be appearing any more. It could be symptomatic of a wheel coming off.

  • Omega Z

    Frank

    By Deciphering some of Cures posts on Cobraf, Your pretty much spot on. He did obtain much insight from others on JONP over time.
    He continues to post on JONP mostly because of a kinship he has developed with a few faithful supportive fans. Posting technical information now only serves to provide information to his competition.

    Note:”R&D in course upon the plants that have been manufactured and delivered to the Customer”. Plants- Plural.

    In R&D, there are multiple tests being run in unison. This would be very time consuming to run different tests on 1 system. Especially if waiting for 1 test result taking months, then starting another. If you need to examine the core condition & charge/Fuel burn rate at 1 month uninterrupted intervals, then 2 month, etc, That alone could take 2 years just working your way to 6 months.

    NOTE: These Intervals are an Example. All Cures said was checking at Intervals. That could be any time variable.

    Also rather then design a turbine for the E-cat, Their trying to Optimize the E-cat for existing Turbines. Existing Turbine design modification would only be if necessary should Optimizing the E-cat not be sufficient by itself.

    • fortyniner

      I agree with Omega Z that the most important sentence seems to be “validation, tests, R&D in course upon the plants that have been manufactured and delivered to the Customer”.

      Multiple ‘plants’ (prototypes of various design variants?) are obviously to be expected, but the sentence seems to confirm the existance of a third player – ‘the Customer’. This seems to refer to a separate commercial entity that is working in harness with the partnership (Leonardo + ?) to provide test facilities for the prototypes.

      The obvious inference (IMHO) would seem to be that ‘the Customer’ is a power plant manufacturer, and that efforts are ongoing to design a CF boiler that could be coupled to one or more of their standard turbine models, in order to develop a ‘retro fit’ package to be sold to existing clients (most probably for coal-fired power stations which would otherwise become ‘stranded assets’).

      • Omega Z

        Peter

        I’ve been ify about the retrofits in the past, but with more knowledge about power plant replacement becoming eminent here in the U.S, It now appears highly probable.

        Your aware that I have always advocated the fact that this will be a slow transitional progression. A couple decades minimum. The Following is what I’ve assumed. I’ve looked into & now confirm at least to myself.

        World Market- 1000 Power plants on order. The Hold up/Bottleneck. The Production & delivery of Turbines. Oh-And Cash. High Demand equals skyrocketing prices but a shortage of skilled labor also enters here. A Skilled Energy Engineer can command a $100K plus salary & Get it. Major shortage.

        So Turbine shortage, Skilled Labor Shortage & Cash shortage would Equal Retro Fit by default.

        And this bottleneck will take many years to work thru.

        A couple notes of interest Peter. Rossi’s Miami residence-

        The Largest U.S. Energy producer covering most of the East Coast. Was going to build a 2 Generator Nuclear Power Plant not far from there. Estimated at $14 Billion or so with Completion estimates pushing $24 Billion if pared down to just 1 Generator.

        Complete Cancellation of the Project like just 2 or 3 months ago. Maybe just a coincidence.

        Another Note that I need to recheck, because of Info overload. But Siemens has 3 facilities in Miami alone.
        1 is a Medical division. Another is a Sales office. I’m thinking the 3rd is a Energy Research Center. At any rate I’m sure it was energy related. But I could be wrong. I’ll try & find the info. Nearly a year since I checked this out. Old-timers disease. 🙂

        • fortyniner

          Omega

          As GreenWin often highlights, there does seem to be a ‘tectonic’ shift quietly going on behind the scenes in the energy world, the nature of which is not entirely clear as yet.

          For many years most power stations have made use of standard ‘packages’ from the big players so you could go from station to station (as I did during my second career as a technical author) and see pretty much the same combinations of boiler and turbine/alternator again and again. That’s why I’ve often banged on about retrofitting – it would often be a case of developing a single design that would then have ‘instant’ markets in the thousands in some cases, particularly in the case of coal fired gensets.

          I would expect the business model to center on leasing rather than sales, possibly with in-house training for customer staff to reduce the requirement for supplying maintenance engineers. Perhaps the boilers could be sold as normal, with the reactor core being the leased component, the supplier remaining responsible for maintenance and replacement of this as required.

          As you say, the rollout will inevitably be limited by resources, but by initially restricting R&D to say half a dozen of the most common packaged plant types made by the associate company, the limiting factors will coalesce around manufacture and numbers of commissioning and maintenance engineers. Both of these could be rapidly expanded by using profits to take over ‘non-CF’ competitors and related manufacturers that could be pressed into service, and training (likely to become a huge industry in itself if outsourced).

          BTW the figures you give for the reactor new builds are revealing. EDF, who are proposing to build a new double reactor near to where I live are currently quoting £14 billion (I think about $22 billion US) for the whole deal. This is a massive project (32 GW output total) and in light of your figures, obviously utterly unrealistic.

    • fortyniner

      Presumably this would be the same ‘Customer’ to which the second 1MW unit and two test units were shipped, but is not the R&D facility with which Rossi is co-operating – i.e., the Partner and the Customer are separate entities. Possibly the Customer is a subsidiary of the Partner or co-owned by the same controlling interest?

      • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

        My guess is that the Customer is someone with whom the Partner already has business relations and have agreed to help in the trials. If this is so, there must be a number of people in different organizations in the know.

      • Tappanjack

        Bingo! I have felt all along the “partner and the customer” are the same (Siemens)

    • Mick D

      Pure speculation: recall from 6 months ago AR “hints” of *
      “carrier” and “enterprise”.
      Suppose that Partner is Babcock & Wilcox and Customer is US Navy. USN owns decommissioned US Enterprise sitting at Hampton Roads. It has 8 power plants. A great test bed for retrofit of prototype CF boilers.
      It fits with ideas expressed in this thread. Just a guess on my part.

      • fortyniner

        An interesting speculation – it does seem to hang together! Marine propulsion, especially military, is a huge potential market for CF boilers.

        The fly in the ointment is that B&W does not conform to Rossi’s claim that the ‘Partner’ is a humanitarian organisation.

        • Mick D

          I really think the Customer could be the USN. We know the Navy bought one 1MW unit. They could be buying more from the partner, with the plan to tie them all together, but testing different variants as they go.
          I’m not sure who the partner is, but must have ongoing relationship with the Navy.
          As for Big E, probably not. But the Navy surely has labs in that area and can impose secrecy by classifying the whole project.

          • Omega Z

            Mick

            Rossi has used boat analogies for some time. A ship?, then a Battleship, & then Carrier.
            To my knowledge, Carrier/Enterprise has no presence or at least no significant presence in Florida. They’ve also moved most of their manufacturing outside the U.S. And contract out most large products & just assemble.

            I’m just speculating on Siemens due to a large body of evidence. Duke Energy may also be a possibility, but I still need to do some investigating of them. They do Build Power plants & have a presence in Florida as does Siemens.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        The largest B&W “insider” is Mason Capital Management LLC with almost 12 million shares.

        The 3 principals of Mason Capital Management are:
        Mr. Kenneth Mario Garschina

        Mr. Michael Emil Martino

        Mr. John Christopher Grizzetti

  • Ryan

    Personally it wouldn’t surprise me if whatever entity Rossi is working with hasn’t asked him to shut the site down. Just too many opportunities to accidently give out information that might be deemed sensitive or critical. It might even be possible that he may have been asked to gradually tone down his activity on the site, slowly distancing himself from it as they approach a release date and then transition activity to a business site. Makes it harder for those interested to find out what he’s doing currently but then again the size of the population actively ferreting out information on the topic is not staggering at this point.

    • Omega Z

      They did put restrictions, Or a Polite request.

      It’s possible ROSSI has someone check his posts prior to clicking post. This would explain why there is more clarity in them. Someone points out some(Not all) of his grammatical errors.

      • fortyniner

        I think that may be right. Ostensible reason – to improve the English; real reason – to make sure that no ‘slips’ occur. It’s odd though that ‘indipendent’ is always allowed through – perhaps this now seen as a Rossi ‘trademark’, lending the appearance of authenticity.

    • Jim

      @Ryan
      I agree with your comments, up this one: “the size of the population actively ferreting out information on the topic is not staggering at this point.”

      To me that’s a question mark. I’ve concluded that there are a LOT of people interested in LENR. How, at this point, could there not be? Oil Price, Forbes, NASA, Missouri U, ICCF, Falls Church News Press, Independent Voter News, just to get started.

      I’m finding that once you get past the scientists and skeptopaths, people react to LENR they way they would to algae-diesel. Great idea, when can I put some in my car? Not so soon? So, how ’bout them Dodgers?

      On the other hand, I mentioned it to a stock broker the other day, and he asked me to send him information about it. He’s got motivation to learn.

      The problem is that the people who both 1) know what is means and 2) have broad influence are people with money. If they have money, they have investment portfolios. If they have investment portfolios, they own energy stocks (at least as parts of funds). If they own energy stocks, they don’t want to publicize advances in LENR. There are variations on that narrative. A major variation is they don’t want to publicize LENR because they are ALREADY investing in LENR.

      We e-catworld-ers can’t have it both ways. If we have acquired conviction that LENR is real, near term and a world-changer, we can’t be both right and alone. IHMO, we’re just a small slice of the spectrum of people who are actively looking at LENR today.

      • Ryan

        I agree with your assessment and probably should have clarified that the population I was talking about was the average lay person being on the limited side, that being a very tiny portion of the world population. My guess is that it is more probable that those with real money and power would be more apprised about potential technologies. I think the people that frequent this board, like me, are those that don’t have much in the way of power beyond making noise about a topic. Even then, when I speak to people about things like LENR I usually get eye rolls or they listen but pretty much forget it moments later because they don’t consider it feasible or likely to really happen. Back in the early nineties I was telling people I knew that the internet would be huge. People would be on it everyday, buying things there instead of going to stores, working over it full time, etc and that it would be a major and growing force in our lives within about a decade. Almost every one of them, save for a teacher I had at the time that agreed, snickered at me and thought I was blowing the internets potential way out of proportion. The ones I still know that denied such a notion then, if I bring it up now, claim they always knew it would happen too. Truly an annoying habit of our species.