Looking for Neutrons in a Rock Crushing Experiment

I thought this video would be of interest to readers here. It is by Angie Savela, an electrical engineering student at Notre Dame university who spend the summer as an intern at the Hunt Utilities Group in Pine River, Minnesota β€” where the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project have been carrying out their LENR research and experimentation.

In this video Savela demonstrates experiments in which she tries to replicate claims by Alberto Carpinteri, professor of structural mechanics at the Polytechnic of Turin, who claims that in rock-crushing experiments he has detected the emissions of neutrons β€” suggesting some kind of LENR reaction produced in earthquakes.

See below for the experimental results.

Carpinteri has received quite a bit of trouble from the scientific community in Italy for his work in this field and complaints to the Italian research ministry led to his research in this area being defunded. So it is good to see the HUG group willing to sponsor such research β€” and the internship there sounds like it has been a great experience for a dedicated student.

  • Remi AndrΓ©

    Question : the international unit for pressure is Pascal. I’d like to know what is the equivalent of 100 tons in pascals ? Moreover as pressure is the result of the division of a force by an area it would be interresting to know this parameters….

    My suggestion is : use the Pascal’s hose principle in order to get a very cheap device that act like a powerful press. Take a 100 m (or longer….) hose with you and then climb at the top of a monument (at least 100 m high) and fill your hose with tap water. All you have to do is just pinch the extremity in order to reduce the section of the pipe and increase the pression. You have to put a sufficiently resistant hose to do this….

  • Wes

    All successful LENR experiments that I am aware of appear to have one thing in common; irregular surfaces. It is my belief that craggy surfaces can provide nano-tunnels in which coulomb forces on opposing walls effectively cancel out. Particles entering such tunnels are easily captured. The challenge is to produce surfaces rich in the critical geometries; nanotech is the future of LENR optimization.

  • Ryan Hunt

    Is there anyone out there eager to follow up on Angie’s work now that she has to go back to school? We have space for a volunteer internship at HUG, now.

  • Owen

    I would put plastic pipe on the outside of the current setup and attach the tubes to the outside of the pipe. This way the pipe and tubes do not experience sudden shock.

  • Roger Bird

    Did science fail us once again because this critter’s existence had nothing to do with global warming:

    http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/08/15/new-mammal-species-discovered-with-teddy-bear-looks/

    Roger

  • Jouni

    Should the crushing be done with even more force, like by a bullet?
    The support of the detectors could be the cause for those bubbles in the video.

  • Curbina

    Anyway, there’s got to be a way to detect neutrons that does not give false positives out of a heavy shock, specially if you are working in an experiment that involves a huge shock, just saying.

    • AlainCo

      the probme is not to find good ways,
      it is to find ways which can be accepted by people who don’t want’t to accept it.

      Either it is as clear as levitation, or a X-ray film, or it is impossible to convince. that is the tragedy of LENR.
      Evidence of LENR demand instruments and computation, and skeptopath don’t trust your instruments and your computations, and strangely cannot do the computation correctly with their instruments, when they miss sabotaging the experiment.

      I don’t say that rock crushing cause neutrons, just that it will be impossible to convince the opponents who own the truth, in the case it is really happening. And given the possible artefacts, we cannot trust the supporters. we need honest skeptics, but honesty is not common in such science debate, like unbiased position is absent in a court-room debate.

      Like for LENR and many scientific discoveries delayed by skepticism, it will be accepted when proven useful.
      Thomas Kuhn explain it well.

      Do predict 75% of earthquake few second before it happen, and you will prove your point. no less.

      • Ted-X

        Just my two cents…
        If crushing the rocks causes neutrons to jump above the background level, then finding neutrons above the background level could be an indication of an impending earthquake. Also, the changes in the ionosphere are indicative of impending earthquakes (the only question remains if the ionosphere abnormal charges are the result or the CAUSE of the earthquakes). The correlations have been well established and were published. However, if crushing generates some neutrons then all of our 16 models/theories of the nucleus will require corrections. These “pressure-induced neutrons” are an indirect indication that LENR will require one more theory of atomic nucleus and atomic interactions.
        Defunding of Carpinelli’s research is an indication that the research was going in a breakthrough direction. Unfortunately, the official defundings are working exactly that way πŸ™ As Shakespeare (in Hamlet ?) said: “there is a method in this craziness”.
        I posted several times that no theory should be considered as “correct”, nearly all theories have their anomalies, ranges and limitations, which is unfortunately forgotten by most scientists.

  • Curbina

    I guess anyone that ever was in the SKDB might remember one of our fellows, a fine gentlemen, that had derived an entire theory of everything from concrete pressure experiments. (The beta atmosphere) I could not help to remember him while reading and hearing this video.

  • fortyniner

    I suppose it’s easy to criticise in hindsight, but it does seem a bit obvious that the detectors would probably be struck by debris, and a thin bit of plastic mesh wasn’t going to provide much protection.

    An inner barrier of heavy plastic pipe or similar needs to be added, as well as the foam sleeves for the detectors. It is obviously critical to the experiment to avoid shock from impact and to have a barrier to air-transmitted shock waves.

    • Sanjeev

      I agree, but she is only an intern and the experiment is top class for that level ! I highly encourage it, go ahead please.

      Next time just use 2-3 kinds of neutron detectors (if not very expensive) and more of them around the rock, placed safely such that not even tiniest vibration can reach them. Also suggest to put a gamma detector.

      Contacting Carpinteri might also help, to state the obvious.

      • Bob Greenyer

        @Sanjeev

        We had one to ones with Carpinteri and his PHD student, we are aware that they did not see neutrons if sample was too small or two big and carera marble for instance will not produce neutrons.

        More work needs to be done, more understanding from Carpinteri, but all things considered, in such a short time, Angie made an excellent start. We only wish the previous work had been done with LOS approach, then the same errors would not be repeated.

        • Ecco the Dolphin

          Completely unrelated, but the quantumheat.org website seems to be down at the moment.

          • fortyniner

            Back now – just a glitch it seems.

        • Sanjeev

          You guys are surely putting great effort. I hope that he will cooperate more.

          • Bob Greenyer

            He said he would cooperate – no problem there, but most of this work and planning was done from inference from published work and carried out with the press that was available. Much has been learned.

            Now with a verbal commitment to help where he can without infringing on MFMPs independence – going forward, we are in a strong position.

            The only downside is – Angie has to return to her studies and we still don’t have a large enough press.

            One thing this does highlight graphically is the INCREDIBLE energy/forces that is needed to move tectonic plates.

        • fortyniner

          Bob – You might suggest to Angie (if she’s going to continue with this line) that she gets some analyses of her rocks first to make sure that there is a decent iron content. Presumably the stronger the rock, the greater the shear forces that will be generated upon breakage, so pre-testing with the press to select the strongest iron-bearing rock might be helpful (so long as that doesn’t make the samples too small, given the limits of the press).

          • Roger Bird

            I’m confused: “the greater the shear forces that will be generated upon breakage” Isn’t it the other way around. The breakage is generated by the shear forces. The shear forces are generated by the press. Or am I missing something?

            • fortyniner

              The press only provides pressure. Shear forces are generated as fractures propagate through the rock sample at the moment of collapse.