Not Much Nickel Needed

Andrea Rossi once again today reiterated his claim that the amount of nickel used in the E-Cat reaction is miniscule — that: “The amount of Ni used by the E-Cat, even in a widespread situation, would not affect the world production of Ni. 1 g of mass yields 23 000 kWh and the used Ni is anyway recyclable for all the other uses.”

In an attempt to get a clearer picture of what we can expect from Andrea Rossi and Co. regarding its manufacturing of E-Cat reactors once it is in operation (I’m still convinced this will happen, btw), I put some questions to Rossi on his JONP site. Here they are with his answers:

1. When an E-Cat reactor is replaced (every 6 months, you mention), will the used nickel in the reactors be reprocessed in your facilities for the manufacturing of new E-Cat reactors? Yes

2. Will all used reactors from plants around the world be sent back to the central manufacturing facility (presumably in the USA) for reprocessing? Yes

3. Will all rector exchanges be carried out by authorized agents of yours, or can plant owners change their own reactors? The exchanges will be made by our specialists

All this suggests that there will have to be a huge operation involved in the manufacturing of E-Cat reactors, from the preparation of nickel powder (first-time, and recycled), the assembling of reactors, the building of plants, the distribution, replacement and return of replacement reactors — and all this apparently going on in the United States to serve a worldwide market. If the E-Cat is widely adopted the whole operation will be an immense undertaking that will require much labor, organization and money to achieve. Right now, looking from the outside, there are few signs of what might be going on behind the scenes. The secret is well-kept for now, and I’m sure the people involved are relieved to be able to work in peace. Things could change very quickly once the partner is identified.

  • Joannes Van den Bogaert

    Please have a look at e-Cat Site the article: “Cold Fusion Catalyst” and consider also the possibility of deuteron (+) fusion according to Belgian Patent BE904719. Consult “ESPACENET” for obtaing a list of lapsed BE patents on the name of VAN DEN BOGAERT JOANNES.

  • Jack

    I did a back of the envelope calculation of the energy that might be released by a hydrogen/nickel LENR device.

    1 mole of hydrogen = 1.008 grams
    1 mole of nickel = 58.693 grams
    1 mole of copper = 63.546 grams

    63.546 – 1.008 + 58.693 = 3.845 grams

    C = 2.998 x 10^10 cm/sec

    e = 3.845 x (2.998 x 10^10) ^ 2 = 3.456 x 10^21 ergs

    1 Joule = 10^7 ergs

    3.456 x 10^14 Joules

    power = 3.456 x 10^8 MW per mole = 8.988 x 10^7 MW per gram

    • piosk

      How did U converted Energy to Power.
      U do “magic” almoust Rossi like 🙂
      anyway You could not talk abot power what You computed is simply amout of energy
      power is energy “produced” in certin time so that is no that mater.

      E=mc^2
      E=3,845g x (3×10^6km/s)^2
      E=3,845g x (3×10^9m/s)^2
      E=3,845g x (3×10^11cm/s)^2 g*cm^2/s^2 (erg)
      E= 34,6×10^22 erg
      E=34,6×10^15 J – and that is energy from 1 mol

      5g load of “cardrige” is aprox 1/11th of mol
      so it could theoritecaly give us 3,14×10^15J energy (from one cardrige)
      1g would give us 0,58×10^15J (if all nickel transform to copper)
      And it is correct calculations i think

      specific heat capacity of water is 4200 J/kg*K so it would be enough to heat 1,4 million tons of water from 0 deg to 100deg.

      m=E/(4200*100deg)
      m=0,58×10^15/4,2×20^5 = 0,14×10^kg = 1,4 millions ton

      Preety overhelming! If you imagine that one ton is 1 qubic meter.
      then amount of water would be 1 and half of qube of 100m x100m x100m

      hope didnt make mistakes in my calculations 😀

      • Barry

        Nobody’s English is that bad. Sounds contrived.

        • piosk

          english is my 3rd language so excuse my “bad language”

          • Roger Bird

            May I suggest that you type what you want to say in Google Translate in your first language and then translate it to English. Then double check the translation just to make sure that Google Translate didn’t foul up, and then cut and paste it here.

    • Robert Firth

      I have some problems with your calculation.

      First, the reaction you are starting from is endothrmic,
      not exothermic – in other words, it requires energy.
      Next, you convert mass not into energy but into power (watts),
      which is dimensionally wrong. But my biggest problem is
      that you are assuming natural Ni is turned into natural Cu,
      which is impossible – the atomic weights don’t work.

      The simplest feasible reaction is 59-Ni + 1-H = 60-Cu, and the
      mass defect is then

      (59.9308 + 1.008) – 60.9335 = 0.0053

      Hence, one mole of Ni generates 0.0053 * C-squared ergs,
      which is about 4.77 * 10^18. One joule is 10^7 ergs,
      and 1 kwh is 3.6 * 10^6 joules, hence the total energy
      from one mole is about 1.3 * 10^5 kwh.

      Unlikely to power the world! World electricity consumption
      is about 1.7 * 10^13 kwh per annum, which would require
      1.3 * 10^8 moles of Ni.

  • Stephen Goodfellow

    Poor Rossi – and Defkalion!
    IF they manage to put their devices on the market, I fear (well – not really) that they will not reap the trillions of dollars they anticipate. Rossi says we will have to rely on an authorized dealer to come and change what is essentially a battery? That is so laughable it hardly merits comment.
    As I have mentioned in other posts, this technology is plainly not rocket science; every two-bit third-world low tech garage will be able to churn out endless knock-offs, and they won’t give a damn about no patents, international or not.

    I suspect this has both Rossi and Defkalion wringing their hands in despair, because they know they might holding on to the greatest technological advance in human history, yet the only way they can keep control is to keep the functionality secret – and that simply isn’t going to happen.

    • Dan

      They will undoubtedly make enough to make their time and effort worthwhile but at the end of the day you are right. This technology has no choke-points so once the cat is out of the bag there will be no stopping it.

      • clovis

        hi, guys,
        Look, if you have the ambrosa,and know where it comes from, there is no other, so i personaly would not care if someone repiclated, my device, but if you try and sale it, then i want my cut, because it belongs to me and there is no other,case closed.–smile

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Stephen Goodfellow wrote, “As I have mentioned in other posts, this technology is plainly not rocket science; every two-bit third-world low tech garage will be able to churn out endless knock-offs, and they won’t give a damn about no patents, international or not.”

      I’m glad someone understands what’s going on.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        I have a friend that is an actual retired NASA “Rocket Scientist”. I’ve alerted him to Rossi and LENR and my friend doesn’t claim to understand what’s going on. He is, however, open-minded and interested in these developments.

    • Omega Z

      Stephen

      Wake Up! Your Dreaming.

      If they were so simple, Rossi & others would already be knocking out 1000’s per month.

      If Rossi gave me 1 at this time, I wouldn’t use it. Why spend a $100 dollars a month for hot water when my present Gas water heater does it for a few dollars a month.

      It would only be good for supplemental heating in the winter. Rest of the time it would just sit.

      At present, there is no efficient way to produce electricity with it as a home consumer Product.

      At industrial level, The real cost will be precision built steam turbines. If you can afford that, you probably aren’t concerned with your utility bill.

      As for every Joe Schmoe building his own, aside from all the other problems, The first whiff of that nickel powder will be the end of his building days. Or Anything Else.

      Contrary to what most believe, E-cat Power technology wont be any Cheaper to build then any existing Technology. Expensive.

      It’s savings actually derive in it’s energy production as it eliminates the cost of Fossil Energy. But the Up Front Costs will be nearly the same as any other.

      • Stephen Goodfellow

        Omega Z,

        That never stopped crystal meth labs from proliferating all over the World 🙂

        Humor aside, should this approach to LENR turn out to be practical, keep in mind it is early days. The first steam engines were horribly inefficient, borderline impractical. I don’t seriously expect entrepreneurs to start churning out these early mark I’s and II’s.
        My comment is directed at a greater span of time, say ten to twenty years from now. When the time comes and (if) this energy source becomes practical, you don’t seriously mean to tell me that the enterprising spirit of our species will have withered to the point that a host of tinkerers won’t be able to strip down and comprehend the working principals of a device that has to essentially be pretty simple?

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Somewhere on this post, there was a discussion of “Placebo Effect”. We’re constantly torn between the forces of “Placebo” and “Bocepla”. Placebo is the state of ‘feeling’ better than you are. Bocepla is the state of being better than you feel.

    As for me, I prefer placebo. My guess is that skeptics are mired in a bog of bocepla.

    • georgehants

      Iggy, they are of course both powerful effects that alter the body and mind.
      But no profit for the drug company’s and medicine cannot except that Witchdoctors knew exactly what they where doing and helped and cured millions over history.

  • Giuliano Bettini

    Andrea Rossi
    August 12th, 2013 at 6:35 AM
    Giuliano Bettini:
    The equation
    1g = 23 000 000 kWh
    ( 1 gram of mass is equivalent to 23 000 000 kWh of energy)
    comes from the Einstein’s equation
    E = mc^2
    There was a typo, sorry: 23 x 10^6 = 23 000 000 kWh, as I had written many times in this blog. I have corrected the typo, I wrote kWh instead of MWh. My mistake.
    Obviously, only a minimal part of mass is turned into energy, but the part of Ni that is not turned into energy is not lost, because can be recycled as nickel scrap from any nickel producing facility. This is why the impact of a widespread diffusion of the technology will not affect substantially the reserves and the production of nickel.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Giuliano Bettini
    August 12th, 2013 at 1:54 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    a debate has happened with regard to the sentence
    “1 g of mass yields 23 000 kWh.”
    Did you mean to refer to Einstein’s equation on the equivalence mass > energy?
    (possibly with a typo kW > MW?).
    Thanks
    Giuliano Bettini.

    • BroKeeper

      I have a question to the local nuclear scientists. If such large amounts of energy are released from the fusion of a hydrogen atom with another NI or H atom in a very finite volume of space to that of a few molecular sizes, wouldn’t there exist torus reactor plasma equivalent energy temperatures (before dissemination) to nearby H or NI atoms to the point some of the hydrogen would overcome the coulomb barrier? This is not to exclude the forced plasma from electrical impulse.
      Just like the beggining of the big bang temperatures forcing sub-particles together in a very small space with extremely high temperatures.

      • Dan

        just looking at the table of elements I’d guess that 5 hydrogens are consumed to get from a stable nickel isotope to a stable copper isotope

        • BroKeeper

          From my limited knowledge it all depends on the starting NI isotope and ending CU isotope. With even NI isotopes it could range anywhere from1 to 7 hydrogen nuclides to convert to two stable CU63 or CU65 isotopes (assuming whether or not single step fusion processes exists).
          Ni62 –> CU63 requires one hydrogen.
          The question I have to the E-Cat “nukes”: does initial dense localized hot plasma from fusion sparks exist to overcome the limits of fusion (coulomb) barriers to cascade further nearby H to Ni or H to H fusion?
          Does all this make sense or am I a burned out nuke want-a-be (or both)?

          • Dan

            My limited understanding is that current theories are that a hydrogen captures it’s electron to become a neutron (very simplistic). This makes the coulomb barrier irrelevant.

            • Roger Bird

              There are lots of theories, Dan.

  • georgehants

    Daily Grail
    Is This the Week that Organized Skepticism Imploded?
    http://www.dailygrail.com/Skepticism/2013/8/Is-the-Week-Organized-Skepticism-Imploded

    • Roger Bird

      I am disappointed that the writer did not mention that the aggressive skepticism of those who identify as being Skeptics impedes exploration and is basically mean spirited.

    • Gerrit

      What a load of power abusing hypocrites. I don’t know what to say else.

    • Gerrit

      PZ Myers was on of the naggers that forced TEDx to remove Sheldrake's talk

  • georgehants
    • artefact

      Thanks George!

      • georgehants

        artefact, thank you, anything to get away from a hundred comments on bloody nickle. Ha.

  • georgehants

    The Irish Times
    We need a strategy for scientific research
    “It is vital that [a new science strategy]…includes some clear sense of vision of where we are going with the research investment and where we eventually want to be”
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/we-need-a-strategy-for-scientific-research-1.1489541

  • hempenearth

    No jokes about the Cook Book please, that other site can do them.

  • hempenearth

    Some interesting links:
    Dr Norman Cook simulation matches Mizuno 2013 experiment (and 1996 experiment)
    Cook suggests Mizuno experiment is possible independent replication of Defkaleon (Nickel isotope 61 not depleted in LENR reaction).
    Rossi orders all his employees to study Cook’s book.
    https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/36817/SimulationNuclearTransmutationPresentation.pdf?sequence=2
    Sorry for brevity,..lizard drinking

  • Dickyaesta

    For Frank, Editors for blogs etc. http://ckeditor.com/demo I like CKEditor as a programmer very versatile and tinymce http://www.tinymce.com/ I have no experience with tinymce but seems to have its points. I hopes this helps a bit, if you want more info write to me.

    Saludos
    Didymus

    • Felix Fervens

      I’ve used both editors. Making them play well with Frank’s WP theme and content filtering software might be a problem.

      • Dickyaesta

        Yes right, Frank might talk to WP(WordPress) team if there are more elaborate editors avaible within the package, I avoid these packages, but that is from a programmers viewpoint.
        Besides I found out that the PC I am typing on now doesn’t have this autocorrection thing therefore it is something in my PC, I will look into it, but a more potent editor like CKEditor is still preferable in my eyes.

  • Thinks4Self

    What I think Rossi is referring to is the load of nickel in the reactor core. It has been stated that the cores will need to be changed every six months or so.

    180 days x 24 hour/day = 4320 hours

    23,000 kWh / 4320 hours = 5.324 kW instantaneous

    So I gram of nickel is needed to fuel a 5.234kW reactor for six months. This is in the realm of what he and DGT have stated for their fuel loads.

    • Thinks4Self

      The nickel isn’t used up from what he is saying so he is just giving the material usage to provide the given power over a six month time frame. To bring that into more relatable terms a US Nickel has 1.25 grams of Ni in it so one would provide the raw material needed for about a 6kW core.

  • Dickyaesta

    Talking about Nickel nanoparticles is this it for example: http://www.nabond.com/Nickel_nanopowder.html?gclid=CIGyvub79bgCFYPHtAodmF0AoA or this: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/577995?lang=es&region=ES a Price of almost 40 Euros retail for 5 gram or 8 per gram might be the base for Rossi’s magic or am I far off? The first link gives a nice picture imagine the the hydrogen like mildrew drops in ths tree structure. It might be interesting to search a bit that direction…

    • Dickyaesta

      sorry ……mildew drops… Sorry Frank I hate your editor can’t hardly see what I am typing and because I have a Spanish Explorer everyword is in red

      • Dickyaesta

        Meaning it marks every word as not spanish, I do know that. And then gives the most absurd english translation suggestions of the so called misspelt Spanish words.

        I am a bit of a programmer in C,C++ and C# and I know there are perfect editors that gives you the possibility to see your text before and gives the possibility to add photos etc. Sorry Frank it had to be said once, if it is to difficult to change I will comply. Saludos from a very hot Spain, I need my Ecat to have my terrace with airconditioning that kind of waste is then posible, if desirable is another thing: Have you ever tried on a hot day in your car with the windows open and the airconditioning on, a nice sensation, no? But sorry I am a bit droning on (yes droning), this for my CIA friends which seem to look at what I write since I haad the audacity to link UFO’s with the spy who came in from the Cold 😉

    • Pedro

      Rossi claims he uses micro size nickel, not nano, as far as I remember. But surely, whatver e uses will be cheap to produce in the large quantities he will need once there are 10 billion eCats in the world 😉

      • Dickyaesta

        Hello Pedro, I thought with the new materials like nano particles LENR was at all possible, whereas F&P looked at the reactions, but did not have the materials to maintain the reactions because of the many impurities of the materials.

  • Italo R.

    I wonder why it is necessary change the charge after 6 months.
    What has happened to the charge? Almost all the Nickel is yet there.
    Probably the Hydrogen is consumed? Or something else?

    • Chris I

      Goodness, the Hydrogen is easy to add. In the olden days Rossi was doing it from a cylinder at the start of each demo, just before giving power to the preheating.

      What happens is, I reckon, that as the Ni becomes less pure the hydride maybe doesn’t form well enough (high enough loading ratio) or whatever reason might get in the way of the phenomenon occurring. I don’t know how much you mean by “almost all” and I don’t have any quote of Rossi talking percentages, but I suspect the used Ni to be appreciably less pure, with maybe at least 10% Cu and a bit of other elements.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        "with maybe at least 10% Cu and a bit of other elements"

        I seem to remember that Cu was produced in tiny amounts according to Rossi.

    • Sanjeev

      No ones knows for sure, as we are seeing, Rossi is tightly guarding all secrets.
      But the main speculation is that the nano power sinters with use because of such high temperatures and slowly loses its H absorption capacity and thus becomes less capable of reaction.

      It does not mean that its consumed, only that it changes structure and can be used again simply by converting back to nano powder.

      But you don’t need to worry much, its only the first generation, tech is in beta state. After a few years of development, a small capsule of nickle should last a lifetime easily. All depending on how soon smart engineers get their hands on this tech the world over.

      • Craigy

        The clusters in the nickel are used up and therefore reactions stop

        • Maks

          So whole story about e-cat is nothing similar to cold fusion, lenr, it is simple hydrogen recombination from atomic to molecular state.

          • Roger Bird

            Maks, so this chemical reaction can go on for over 100 hours and give a COP of over 3. Quite an impressive chemical reaction. Or do you just believe this so as to reduce your cognitive dissonance. You might want to dig a little deeper, or you can just think that the rest of us are a bunch of idiots.

            • Maks

              Roger! I believe in cold fusion and you do not need to be rude. I am just guess  is it possible of cyclical (with no consumption of hydrogen)reaction of hydrogen absorption  by Ni with no energy (with the help of catalyst)and by heating of Ni  releasing of atomic hydrogen from the lattice with further recombination  on the surface to molecular state.

              • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

                Hi Maks.

                it is simple hydrogen recombination from atomic to molecular state

                So you have solved the ecat theory? I would love to hear more about it 🙂

                Do you mean the reaction is chemical or nuclear? If you mean chemical, then there is plenty evidence the reaction is way of the ragone chart for chemical processes.

              • Roger Bird

                I guess I was being sarcastic. Sorry about that. But I don’t see how your description could be anything but chemical.

                It actually doesn’t matter. If we are getting a COP greater than 3 for over 100 hours, that is the end of the game. Whether that is chemical or nuclear or unicornian doesn’t really matter. At least to me.

    • Omega Z

      Why The E-cat Needs Recharged Every 6 Months.

      I Have only seen a direct answer from Rossi 1 time.

      The “Catalyzer” Or Secret Sauce is Used Up.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        According to all calculations I’ve seen there should be plenty of fuel left after 6 months of usage. A depleted catalyzer would explain the recharge interval.

  • Mannstein

    Dr. Kim recently claimed it is only the even numbered isotopes of nickel which produce the reaction. Not all nickel can be used.

    • Pedro

      Yes, but most naturally occuring nickel is even. The only uneven is Ni-61 which is approx. 1% of all nickel. So 99% is even.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      What has me confused is that Rossi claims in a patent that copper also works (if memory serves me) and the isotopes of copper are all odd (Cu-63 and Cu-65).

      • Craigy

        ACTUALLY, THESE PIANTELLI PATENTS DESCRIBE ALMOST THE WHOLE ROSSI TECH…
        http://www.rexresearch.com/piantelli/piantelli.htm

        Many answers can be found looking at his patents, it seems cold fusion can be obtianed anywhere there is a partically filled shell
        They belong to one of the four transition metals groups, i.e.: metals that have a partially filled 3d-shell, e.g. Nickel; metals that have a partially filled 4d-shell, e.g. Rhodium; metals that have a partially filled 5d-shell, i.e. the “rare earths” or lanthanoids, e.g. Cerium; metals that have a partially filled 5d-shell, i.e. the actinonoids, e.g.Thorium. The particular electronic conformation of the transition metals allows in fact that the conditions of anharmonicity are created such that the wave vectors sum with each other of the phonons, which interfere at the surface of the metal that is also a surface of discontinuity, and a reticular fluctuation is generated that is both in spatial phase and in time phase within the clusters, and such that an energy “gap” is exceeded that is necessary to start a chain of processes whose final act is the orbital capture of the H- ion 37, as diagrammatically shown in Fig. 5. In order to achieve a result that is industrially acceptable, it is necessary to reach a temperature higher than the Debye temperature T0, for example the temperature Ti as shown in fig. 15, which shows a typical temperature trend from heating step 130 to heat removal step 170, during which a balance value is obtained of the temperature Teq at the active core 1. The triggering step is assisted by the presence of a thermal gradient [Delta]T along the metal surface of the active core 1 , as shown for example in Fig. 24.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Thanks for the link.

        • Jim

          Yeah, thanks, that’s good reading.

        • JerryVic

          Oh Yah thats it right there, the link has the formula to Rossi’s fusion invention PLEASE !

  • Luca Salvarani

    Dear Admin,

    I don’t agree with you on one key point: the e-cat technology will give us enormous benetifs but it won’t increase unemployment, on the contrary a lot of energy related jobs and many others in other sectors will disappear… This is good but few people will undestand this point and the majority will demand more and more socialism. There’s also a concrete risk that this trend will eventually offset the e-cat benefits…. so many socialist endemic contries such as Italy won’t gain anything from e-cat. I hope that’s not the USA case.

    • Sanjeev

      People need to give up the old way of thinking in terms of one percent employers using 99 percent employees style economy and social structure. Who needs employment when one can grow their own food and build their own houses either individually or as small cooperatives ?

      An unlimited energy source will enable just that, total independence. Which is why the govts and big corps are so scared of it, they will lose their slaves. The ruling class will disappear eventually, which is why the tech is so disruptive, and this is the main reason I take so much interest in this rather unsophisticated looking heater producing nothing but a bit of steam.

      • Roger Bird

        And I find this perspective to be silly. When the so-called ruling class actually starts to believe in LENR, then perhaps your conspiratorial theory might have some traction. I haven’t seen anyone freaking out yet. Rossi and the Defkalion crew are all still alive. Frank is still alive. I guess the ruling class is so incompetent that they can’t even knock of an old Italian inventor. Being so incompetent, why should we be concerned about their emotional seizures.

        • Sanjeev

          You have taken my use of the word scare to the extreme and twisted it to make it look like I believe in some conspiracy !

          In plain English, those who are in power position do whatever is possible to remain there, its another matter if they succeed or fail. Btw, killing someone is least effective method, as there may be triggers set up for that, there are simpler and more effective methods.

      • Al S

        great summation.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Yes, a “cheap energy” revolution could cause temporary unemployment and even trigger a deflationary recession.

      “The only obstacles to accurate prophecy are the vested interests, which may retard progress for economic reasons, tradition, conservatism, labor-union policies and legislation. If we confine ourselves to processes and inventions that are now being hatched in the laboratory, we shall not wander too far from reality.” Waldemar Kaempffert, Science Editor, The New York Times, 1950

  • Alan DeAngelis

    After listening to an internet talk show, I wonder if some people think that the E-Cat is some sort of fuel cell when they hear that it uses hydrogen (a chemical reactor). I don’t think that they understand that it’s a nuclear reaction and that a nuclear reaction is about 10,000,000 times more energetic than a chemical reaction. For example at ~0:56:00 and 1:12:20 they get excited about hydrogen chemical reactions (as an energy storage system) and at ~1:03:30 they even talk about F&P for a minute. They mean well but they don’t seem to really understand the significance of LENR. Or, they probably think someone is trying to scam us with a “perpetual motion” contraption and don’t realize that it’s good old E=MC^2 that’s coming into play.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSHsqsO6Fqk

    • GreenWin

      Alan, good points. Until the LENR press blackout is lifted we cannot expect the general public to understand the chemical/nuclear contrast. Even more of a PR challenge is how to get the public to accept an entirely new, non-radiative nuclear (nuclear-type) reaction.

      In fact the entire nuclear energy field is undergoing a disruptive “scandal of the centuries” what with criminal prosecutions starting in Korea, Japan and eventually US and EU. What the press will have to report is the deep corruption in the nuclear fission industry (they can hardly avoid the global catastrophe that is Fukashima.) With that accomplished, the idea that there may be a cleaner, greener, more abundant form of energy available – will be a good story.

      All this to say, IMO we will need to see a major, global house-cleaning of the corrupt nuclear power industry before we can begin educating the public on LENR. Not that we shouldn’t all be envoys carrying the good news whenever possible.

      Media giant NBC News is carrying the story of mass arrests of corrupt nuclear officials and suppliers in Korea. This is a beginning: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52711424/ns/us_news-environment/#.Ugallax2HBw

      • Roger Bird

        There is no LENR press blackout. It is all part of the tin foil hat blackout. Stop being so insular. Most people including those in the media don’t even know that we exist.

        • Roger Bird

          Oh, about the tin foil hat crowd. It turns out that enough sane people complain about electromagnetic pollution that it seems to be real. I mean that they experience unpleasant sensations from EMF. And I know as a fact that really strong EMFs (relative to the person, like heating blankets) can disrupt people’s sleeps. Leave us not make the mistake of conventional medicine and assume that everyone is the same. Some people are definitely more sensitive than other people. Now, as to the hearing of voices, that would be another matter.

          • Omega Z

            Hey Roger

            Voices. We here Voices in our head all the time. And from the tone, We can’t help but think it’s telling Us to do bad things.

            Fortunately, It’s in a Foreign language We don’t understand.

            SOO- We’re All Good Here. 🙂

      • Alan DeAngelis

        I hope this doesn’t frighten or mislead people but it may help them understand the colossal differences in energy between a nuclear reaction and a chemical reaction. Let’s illustrate the point with a nuclear reaction people are familiar with.
        Only one kilogram of uranium-235 when it undergoes a fission reaction (a nuclear reaction) in an atomic bomb has the energy equivalent of 1,500 metric tons of coal (a chemical reaction)! So, although the E-Cat is NOT an atomic bomb, a nuclear reaction is taking place and only tiny amounts of hydrogen and nickel are needed to generate huge amounts of energy. The products of the nuclear reaction weigh slightly less than the starting materials. Therefore a tiny amount of mass (M) has been converted into a huge amount of energy (E). It’s good old E = MC^2.

  • http://www.drboblog.com Dr Bob

    Hello Everybody…

    Im on a longer road trip…

    Just been partying with Anonymous Sweden at The Pirate Bay 10 Year Anniversary in Sweden.
    (I wanted to discuss with them the behaviour and content of Canadian emails I am sometimes receiving)

    As we all know, there is nothing more important than being politically correct and since there are a lot of lenr enthusiasts on this webpage I wanted to ask for suggestions on projects for the next weeks roadtrip.

    -Its your world!

    Slightly warm regards / Dr Bob

    • atanguy

      Why don’t you visit Pons,I think he lives near Marseille France

      • AlainCo

        In “la fusion dans tous ses états” JP Biberian explain that Pons flee the public and want to be quiet.

        JP Biberian is one of the few which whom Pons still interact, probably because he protect him from the media.

        I think the best would be to let him quiet, but anyway, whatever Pons prefer, Biberian should know it.

  • Chris I

    I continue to regard Rossi’s e-cat as being pretty much like a galena crystal or cat’s whisker radio receiver, in comparison with today’s superheterodyne tuners and whatnot.

    Moreover, as soon as the skeptopaths get discredited, there will be tremendously more resources going into these phenomena and I don’t know how long –let alone his secret lasting– his simple device will remain competitive. I think he’ll need to make his ROI mighty fast, once he’s on the real market, else attract the best of the lads for finding better methods.

  • GIULIANO BETTINI

    It might seem that you consume 1 g of Nickel to get 23 000 kWh but is not so.
    This would be true if the entire mass of a Nickel atom (about 60,000 Mev) was transformed into energy. But is not so.
    If the E Cat transforms (example) only 1 MeV/atom, you need 60,000 times more Nickel.
    60 Kg of Nickel to obtain 23 000 kWh.
    Obviously, the Nickel is not “consumed”. It’s used, and the used Ni is anyway recyclable.

    • GIULIANO BETTINI

      Unless…
      I interpreted Rossi’s 23 000 kWh as E=mc^2….
      maybe is a typo?

      • LENR.FTW

        1g = 23 000 kWh may be Rossi’s shorthand for energy available in fusion (not annihilation). See below.

        It is about 3 orders of magnitude too low to be pure energy release as you have in complete annihilation (E=mc^2).

        • LENR.FTW

          Disregard that first sentence… I made a math error… off by a factor of 10.

      • Zipatros

        No, the part with the nickel not being “consumed” makes perfect sense.

        Following the e-cat story for quite some time, I always wondered about the nickel part, because as far as I know iron is the most stable element and the elements before (like hydrogen) can produce energy by fusion while the elements after iron can produce energy by fission (like uranium). But nickel comes after iron and therefore couldn’t fusion with hydrogen to copper.

        But this new statement of Rossi now makes sense. The nickel is just a catalysator (as the name “e-cat” also indicates) that has to be remanufactured from time to time, while the reaction is classical hydrogen fusion H + H -> He + energy.

        • E_man

          And what about transformation to hydrino H -> H(1/2) -> H(1/3) -> H(1/4) -> H(1/5)…. by Black Light Power (R.Milles theory) ?!

          • GreenWin

            E_man, if you look closely at many LENR theories, e.g. BEC, Widom, DGT “electron ellipse” – there is a surprising semblance to Dr. Mills’ fractional ground state of protium H1.

            Mills is one of a kind, good fellow.

          • E_man

            If You count thermal energy of hydrogen from state p=1 to p=137 by Dr.Milles theory, there is about 13500kWh per 1g hydrogen.
            Nickel could serve as reaction nano(micro)-conteiner only.?
            3g of hydrogen can produce 10kW for half an Year, I think.
            Along some documment, nickel nanopowder can absorb unbielivable 3 times more hydrogen, than is density of liquid hydrogen(2,6 wt%).

        • Stephen

          Hi. Actually this is a bit subtle. Indeed what is peaking around the Fe mass is the *binding energy per nucleon*, i.e. the total binding energy divided by the number of nucleons. This does not exaclty mean that fusing things beyond Fe is always non-convenient from an energetic point of view: for instance binding a proton to Ni is a quite exothermic process. You just an example, look at few mass values

          60Ni -> 59.9307864u
          p -> 1.0072764u
          61Cu -> 60.9334578u

          you see that there is a 0.004+ missing mass in Cu, this is the energy released by the 60Ni+p->61Cu reaction… and it is positive.

          Of course, as always, this does not prove whether the eCat works or not. The Coulomb barrier in free space is in principle enormously enormous.

        • Stephen

          Addendum…

          Actually, if we make the usual non-trivial assuption that all this makes some sense, I recall Defkalion was claiming that the Ni->Cu transmutation (which is exotermic) is actually only a secondary process… so one has to guess the rest of the energy comes from some sort of binding between the Hs.

          Is this true? I guess one day they will let us know…

          • Omega Z

            Yes, Rossi & Focardi retracted their early statements & said the Copper was a side effect also or secondary effect.

          • Zipatros

            You are right, with the data from http://tinyurl.com/6eq3owj I get

            H 1 + Ni 60 -> Cu 61 + 0,0051534 unit.

            Still for me Rossis statements about “used Nickel” (not copper) and the “reprocesssing” makes more sence in a catalysator- then a reaction-fuel-context.

            (Had to use tinyurl because otherwise the blog-system would mark my posting as spam.)

        • Chris I

          Uhm, no. By what they say, it appears the reaction is:

          Ni^N + p –> Cu^N+1 (followed by beta+ except for Cu^63 or Cu^65)

          and the case of least energy is for Ni^62 + p –> Cu^63 giving 6.12 MeV. I’m going by Focardi’s computation here; you could work it out from the delta-m by looking up a table of isotopes if you like.

          What you’re presumeably thinking of is that fusing Ni + Ni (or other nuclei of similar size, including Fe) would be definitely endothermic. For an increase of one nucleon it isn’t so clear cut and anyway Ni isotpoes are not much bigger than those of Fe.

          • Stephen

            Yes I agree!

            It is interesting that there is a lot of people who more or less remember about the iron binding energy peak, from stars I guess… and thinks this automatically means that fusing anything involving stuff beyond Fe will cost you energy, instead of release energy. It’s definitely not the first time I hear about this. To be very honest, I think I made the same mistake in the beginning (no offence Zipatros! ;)…).

          • Zipatros

            Although Rossis statements still make more sense if you think about a catalysator. First Rossis talks about “used Nickel”, not about copper.

            “and the used Ni is anyway recyclable for all the other uses”

            and second he claims that the used nickel would be “reprocessed” to new reactor-cores which is not possible if the material is consumed during the reaction.

            “When an E-Cat reactor is replaced (every 6 months, you mention), will the used nickel in the reactors be reprocessed in your facilities for the manufacturing of new E-Cat reactors? Yes”

            So still I thing the nickel is merely a catalysator and the 23000 kWh is the average lifetime until the nano-structure gets polluted/breaks/whatever.

            • Chris I

              Rossi and Focardi said long ago that they found copper with anomalous abundances in the exhausted powder, they had it analysed by the Padova SIMS apparatus, run by prof. Carnera. I know this to be true because I ask an old friend who formerly worked in that lab and was still working down the corridor from it when I asked him about it. He said Carnera found the spectrum interesting, although he did not conclude the e-cat works (I suppose because he saw no more than his own test on the used powder). My old pal also said the prospective licensees from India had come around to ask Carnera’s opinion.

              From all I’m able to make out, at least part of the story is that Ni gets turned into Cu and also a few other things. Whether any deuterium, tritium or helium is produced as well, I know not.

  • Jimr

    I guess i have missed a major point after all this time. I did not know the entire Ecat had to be returned to refuel/rebuild. This would be a major expense if it applied to home Ecats, as opposed to refuelling locally. Maybe it is for secrecy on early models?

    • LENR.FTW

      It’s a business model that makes sense if rapid advances in capability are expected and the actual cost of the hardware is not very high relative to labor. That way they only have to support the last generation or two of products, facilitating maintenance, training, etc., all while improving customer satisfaction.

      Kind of like smart phones.

      • Jimr

        You may be correct, however all the input/output parameters and sizes would have to be the same on newer models to be compatible with the older devises.

        • Thinks4Self

          No different than a light bulb.

        • Omega Z

          Jimr

          This is just the industrial version which will logically change over time.

          The home version would only be the charge which is actually the entire core, but fairly small. Not the Unit itself.

    • Jim

      Roll Royce (aircraft division) makes a large part of its revenue selling engine-hours-of-use, instead of engines. Rossi’s model is apparently about selling energy, not energy devices.

  • daniel maris

    So you could run a one MW reactor for a a day just about on a gram of nickel…is that right?

    • LENR.FTW

      Yes, that’s what Rossi’s 1g = 23 000 kWh claim works out to approximately.

      There is a caveat though. For complete mass to energy conversion (via E = mc^2) you get 1g ~ 25 000 000 kWh (or 1g ~ 25 000 MWh). It may be *that* equation that Rossi was trying to remember and was just trying to make a point about how you only need very little mass converted to energy and so most all the nickel is still around after the charge is used up.

      Assuming he meant what he wrote though, then you get a specific energy of 23 GWh/kg or 23 MWh/g, which means that if you burned through a gram per day that your output power would be just under 1 MW.

      Maybe admin can ask him is he was referencing E=mc^2 (and made an error) or if he was instead posting the specific energy performance of the E-Cat.

      • LENR.FTW

        Where the 1g = 23 000 kWh equation of Rossi’s *may* have come from.

        It seems that nuclear fusion (hydrogen) converts around 0.6% – 0.8% of the reacting mass to energy.

        23 000 kWh is about 0.9% of 25 GWh. It may be that the 1g ~ 23 000 kWH equation that Rossi quotes is some sort of shorthand that he learned to approximate the energy available in fusion (not annihilation).

        • GIULIANO BETTINI

          @ LENR.FTW
          It sounds like a good idea, but it is not so:
          23 000 would be 0.09% and not 0.9, if I’m not mistaken.

          • LENR.FTW

            Pfft. Yeah, you’re right. Thanks for catching my error.

            Less than one thousandth. Math before coffee = trouble.

            So I’m back to Rossi’s 1g = 23 000 kWh either being a specific energy of the E-Cat or a mistake.

            • GIULIANO BETTINI

              You’re right.
              I give up.
              We have to ask Andrea. 🙂

  • georgehants

    RT
    Radioactive water overruns Fukushima barrier – TEPCO
    Contaminated groundwater accumulating under the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant has risen 60cm above the protective barrier, and is now freely leaking into the Pacific Ocean, the plant’s operator TEPCO has admitted.
    http://rt.com/news/fukushima-water-overrun-barrier-335/

  • guga

    Oh no! Not again this 1g=23000kWh! Of course this is basically correct, but makes no sense in this context.

    Certainly the nickel is not vaporized into energy.

    If it is transmutated into another element, it is no longer nickel and therefore not recycleable. Also, you would need much more than 1g nickel per 23000kWh.

    If only the isotopic composition of the nickel changes, then the (minimal) mass loss is irrelevant. But then also you would of course need much more than 1g per 23000kWh.

    • fortyniner

      As you say, the 1g=23000kWh equation is basically correct by e=mc2 but I agree that it is slightly misleading in this context. While overall, 1g of certain nickel isotopes will be converted to energy, this could of course can only take place in thousands of reactors over a period of time, and would involve many kgs of the ‘fuel’.

      However as Rossi says most of the nickel will not be affected and can be recycled for other purposes. Any isotopic ratio changes or slight contamination by new stable elements is unlikely to matter when the residual nickel is used for other industrial purposes in which such factors are unimportant (e.g., electroplating, resistance wire and stainless steel production).

      • LENR.FTW

        Not so. E=mc^2 gives 1g ~ 25 000 000 kWh
        (24965555.556 kWh to be precise).

        Maybe Rossi made a mistake, but on the face of it the 1g = 23 000 kWh quote seems to be regarding the specific energy of the E-Cat fuel and not an E=mc^2 equivalence.

        • fortyniner

          Thanks – I should have checked the figure. The rest stands though.

      • GreenWin

        fortyniner, this is way OT but I thought you’d be interested in this lecture given by Gil Levin discussing the Viking lander Labeled Release Life detector. The 1976 Mars lander that tested and confirmed biological activity.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8sy7v30FOg

        • fortyniner

          GW

          Thanks, interesting link. It was fascinating to watch the flurry of attempts made at the time to dismiss this finding as a purely chemical reaction (that the expt. had specifically been designed to negate), instrument error, etc etc. I’m not sure why it seems so difficult for many scientists to accept that life is almost certainly ubiquitous wherever conditions allow, and that it can probably be seeded across immense distances.

  • georgehants

    I notice that Iran is moving forward in the Nano-Technology area, all for good purposes I am sure.
    It would I think be a little ironical if they or North Korea, Swaziland etc. where to be the first to announce a functioning Cold Fusion device that can be verified.

    • freethinker

      Spit in the eye for the NWO and the banksters 😉
      +1

  • georgehants

    We could all be wrong about our politicians and scientists, they could all be working together for a World presentation at the United Nations to announce the discovery of Cold Fusion and that all research money from Hot Fusion etc, will now be spent to develop it.
    All Hot nuclear power stations, coal etc. will be quickly replaced and with excess energy the working week will be reduced to three days.
    Everybody will soon have ample clean water and food.
    I will be the first to apologise for having believed that these people are all incompetent, corrupt specimens of humanity.

    • fortyniner

      Morning George.

      Whatever you are on today, can you send me some!

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, I have been put on some new tablets they seem to be working as I tried to cuddle up to the wife last night.

    • Roger Bird

      Their instantaneous conversion may not be the only way that you can apologize. You might also look at them as individuals and understand that they are just as human as you are.

      Do you believe in homeopathy? I thought not. Yet I could say the same thing about you concerning homeopathy. I have used it successfully for the past 43 years and the Windsor family has been using it successfully for the past 175 years. What is wrong with you that you have not yet embraced homeopathy? I know for a fact that it works. I am sitting here typing without any pain thanks to homeopathy. What is wrong with you that you don’t embrace it? Are you corrupt or just incompetent?

      The above paragraph is what you are saying about other people concerning LENR. You might say, “But homeopathy is not scientific” or “Homeopathy has been proven to be a scam” or “There is no atoms left in a homeopathic preparation so it must not be real. It is all power of suggestion.” All these objections sound just exactly like what any disbeliever in cold fusion would say. Yet I sit here with no pain. Remember weeks ago when I posted some serious lamentations concerning my pelvis and spine. If I will cut you some slack about homeopathy, will you cut other people, and yes even our leaders, some slack about cold fusion?

      • georgehants

        Roger, the Evidence for Homeopathy through the Placebo Effect and now Water Memory is strong.
        I do not know where you get the idea that I do not have a very open-mind on the subject, please give a reference link.
        Please do not assume but ask, I will always reply honestly on any subject.

        • georgehants

          I may add that I had a confrontation with Jed Rothwell regarding the Placebo Effect that he was debunking with no reference to the Evidence etc. some time ago on the Defkalion site.
          I invite Jed with all his good work on Cold Fusion to join me here on a discussion on the Truth and Evidence of that Effect.

          • Roger Bird

            Your believing in homoeopathy is most unfortunate since it may very well deprive you of a much needed lesson. Without malice or greed driven conspiracies, most people would still not believe cold fusion. I had no such motivations and it took me 19 months of **careful** scrutiny get to the point of believing Rossi. Multiply that natural skepticism by 1000’s and there you have what could be seen as a conspiracy by greedy meanie heads.

            • georgehants

              Roger, I did not say that I believed in Homeopathy, I said as always I am open-minded and put up Evidence in it’s favour that clearly any competent scientist would be only to glad to investigate.
              If it is o.k. with you I shall continue to rightly condemn incompetent, corrupt scientists who are so un-professional that they refuse to investigate the Evidence for Cold Fusion, Homeopathy etc. thereby potentially condemning many to suffering and death.
              I respect your attempt to not condemn anybody, that is your choice and in this World certainly not proven to be an effective way to put things right.
              My way is to highlight errors and until you can show that your way is proven-ly more effective A little respect in return may be in order.
              I take it we are both trying to achieve the same thing, the Truthful utilisation of Science for the benefit of mankind.

            • Roger Bird

              georgehants, I’ll think about it.

        • Jim

          george,

          One of the nifty things about homeopathy is that you can personally test it. Once you’ve had some physical or emotional misery relieved (or caused!) by it a few times, it’s much harder to resist a visceral conviction. You can then boggle over either the power of placebo effect or the reality of subtle vibratory energy signatures. In either case it’s a ratchet into another perception of reality.

          • georgehants

            Jim, what is certain is that Science should have an open-mind and Research the subject like all other phenomenon.
            Their incompetent, corrupt dismissal of any subject against the Evidence is a crime against humanity and should be treated as such.

      • HHiram

        Homeopathy is placebo effect, nothing more.

        • georgehants

          HHiram, you have given an “opinion” with no Evidence.
          I suggest you check the link below and take no notice of the childish scientific objections. (opinions)
          http://www.i-sis.org.uk/water4.php

        • Roger Bird

          HHiram, how do you explain the fact that it has worked for me and my family for 43 years and is currently working for me by helping with my pinched nerve and other symptoms. And saying that me and my family are stupid won’t be an accepted argument.

          People who study the placebo affect say that the placebo affect won’t last more than 6 months. Yet it is still going strong for the Windsor family for 175 years. That 350 times longer than the longest placebo affect on record.

          And why don’t scientific facts like there are no atoms left after a dilution of 12C have it’s own placebo affect? Knowing about Avogardo’s number should have neutralized any placebo affect of any homeopathic remedy that I had ever taken. I mean, a fact should have a very strong placebo affect.

          Materialism (the philosophical belief that the only reality is the physical, material world with it’s atoms and electromagnetic waves and such) does not disprove homeopathy. Homeopathy disprove materialism.

        • Jim

          HHiram –

          Anything to support that position besides your humbly offered opinion?

          If you’re not willing provide some evidence that you’ve done the research, or if you haven’t given it a sincere personal try, then you can’t claim much personal authority on the matter.

          • Roger Bird

            I like how you put it, Jim.

            But remember, HHiram is a scientist. He knows more than we do.

          • Ash

            The 2005 Lancet meta analysis of over 100 homeopathy papers showed pretty conclusively that it has exactly the same parameters as a placebo.

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=16125589

            It’s great that Roger is getting some benefit from it. I personally have benefited from my personal placebos for over two decades. I’m not aware of any research that limits placebo effectiveness to six months.

            • Roger Bird

              Sorry, Ash, but absolutely, positively nothing that conventional MDs have to say means anything to me. I trust them exactly zero. I would suspect that they are trying to prescribe to the symptoms and not doing real homeopathy. Real homeopathy is magical, both literally and figuratively. Real homeopathy uses the symptoms as a way of trying to discern what is wrong with the person’s own vital force, what keeps us from falling down dead and starting to rot immediately.

            • Roger Bird

              It is not a placebo. It worked when I tried it while being assailed by inner waves of skepticism that caused me to sneer. Why isn’t the supposed knowledge that it is a placebo or the knowledge that there is no atoms left after 12C have it’s placebo effect? Why don’t people like you and conventional doctors have a placebo effect? The truth is that materialism does NOT disprove homeopathy; homeopathy disproves materialism. I hope that you will put your mind around that last sentence and contemplate it for a while.

              • Iggy Dalrymple

                Roger, I’m glad you reminded me of homeopathy. I’ve been suffering lately with itching, sneezing, & hay fever. After your prompting I tried “Allergy Homeopathic Medication” by Heel. It worked great but didn’t fully kick in until about an hour after taking a dose. required 1 sublingual in the am and another in the pm.

                Placebo is wonderful.

                http://tinyurl.com/AllergyHeel

                • Roger Bird

                  Iggy, I am glad that you got relief, for two obvious reasons. I would strongly suggest that you study homeopathy a bit. Here is a site: http://hpathy.com/abc-homeopathy/ It is not necessarily the best or only, but it covers the subject well. It will help you to be a better homeopathy consumer. It won’t make you a homeopath, which is very involved.

  • Greg Leonard

    In the following comment, Rossi is implying that the Ni is the source of energy.

    I just mean that when the Ni is no more useful for us can be recycled as scrap nickel, therefore the mass that is lost is only the mass converted into energy, which is really small, due to the equation
    1 g = 23 000 kWh.

    • AlainCo

      no, what he imply if he say “we recycle nicckel” is either that nickel is a catalyst of Hydrogen fusion (the cold fusion hypothesis), eventually transmutated by accident, or tha they recycle the wasted transmutation products…
      From Defkalion, and from PdD fusion, from Brillouin Corp vision, and from recent Rossi says, I suspect that we have H/D-fusion, with some parasitic Pd and Ni transmutation..

      basically, unless breaking foundation on physics, you cannot produce energy without transmuting something.

      recent result however propose that some heavy element transmutation are in cycle (nuclear catalysis, not simply lattice catalysis) , but any way the hydrogen fuel that cycle with energy, and is transmuted one-way.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I would tend to agree AlainCo, the figure quoted is a likely a diversion.

        The catalysed fusion degrades the efficacy of the Ni based catalytic surface such that it needs to be re-formed with a small amount of side effect Ni Transmutation.

    • Hans-Joachim Müller

      Dear Greg Leonard,

      if I have calculated right, the energy eaquivalent of 1 g Ni in agreement with Einsteins equation is 9x10e13 Ws. The energy delivered by 1 g of Ni in the E-Cat is after the statement of Rossi 8.3x10e10 Ws.
      That means only one part of 1000 of the Ni in the E-Cat is transformed in energy. The remaining part, this is 99,9% , can be recycled.

  • Pedro

    Rossi puts a few grams (5?) of Nickel and a similar amount of hydrogen in a cartridge (like an inktjet printer cartridge) and makes it generate 10 Kwh for 6 months. That’s 10 Kwh for 4320 hours, or 43200 Kwh. 1 microgram (0.000001 gram) of matter converts to 25 Kwh (see wikipedia). So, in order to explain the 43200 Kwh generated by the eCat in 6 months time would mean a loss of mass in the cartridge of 43200/25=1728 micrograms or 0.001728 grams. This can come from the Hydrogen or from the Nickel, or from both.

    Rossi nowadays claims that his energy is not from transmutations (Ni+H=Cu). What he doesn’t say is where it does come from. Most likely it’s Ni+H=Ni where the resulting nickel is just a heavier isotope. I think this is technically speaking not a transmutation, but the effect is the same: the new atom has a slightly smaller mass than the mass of the two atoms (Ni+H) it came from.

    Prof. Norman Cook from the book about Models of the Atomic Nucleus that Rossi always calls his favorite book, did a presentation on ICCF-18 (slides on the net) where he showed his theory about the process. In his slides he claims that Rossi told him that his book helped him a lot to understand what’s going on in the eCat.

    On the commercial side… looks like eCat will go the business model of the HP-printers: cheap hardware to buy but relative expensive to operate. We also know what happened with the expensive HP cartridges: they got refilled and got copied. Probably we will see a similar process with the eCat cartridges.

    • Roger Bird

      Good nuclear physics analysis, Pedro. On the other hand, Rossi’s e-cat may be doing an H + H = D or H + H = He and Rossi just doesn’t have the equipment to test for it or he may not care enough to find out. Or, there could be a combination to H transumations and Ni tranmutations.

      • freethinker

        There are perhaps some misconceptions here.

        E=mc² is what we get in complete annihilation – if matter and antimatter meet -and all mass (m) is converted to energy. If we put in 5g we, like Pedro has computed, a small fraction of that being converted to energy would account for the ecat energy in that case.

        But is this what is going on in ecat? Likely Ni metal lattice is only an environment that is conducive to other reactions, and likely the only annihilation that take place is positron – electron annihilation.

        Check storms ICCF-18 contribution
        http://hdl.handle.net/10355/36821

        and see:

        • p+e+p = deuterium, 1.4
        MeV/event
        1 watt= 4.5×1012 events/sec
        10kW for 1 year = 4.7 g H2

        • d+d = 4He, 24 MeV/event
        1 watt= 2.6×1011 events/sec
        10kW for 1 year = 0.54 gm D2

        Storms think this is the main drive in the energy production for ARs device, transmutation being of less or none relevance.

  • Christina

    Or all the energy is coming from a little bit of nickel and a little bit of hydrogen and is so much energy because it’s a nuclear transmutation or whatever it’s called when one metal becomes another through a nuclear transmutation.

    Okay, I’m not a scientist; just guessing.

    • Roger Bird

      I think that if any of us were scientists we would not be here but rather in our basement or a lab working on this problem. (:->) Anyway, we all learned from HHiram that there is no impenetrable barrier between scientist and non-scientists and any smart person can contribute to the discussion, at least here. I found myself over my head at Vortex and just left. And here and nickelpower.org I feel just right, sort of the goldielocks zone for my intelligence. And http://ecatnews.com/ I found that the thinkers there were struggling with issues that I had already resolved, and just left.

  • Morgan

    so this means that most if not all of the energy is coming from the hydrogen?

    • freethinker

      If we beleive Edmund Storms, most energy in ARs reactor is due to hydrogen being made into deuterium.

  • Roger Bird

    Not for even so much as a single second have I thought, since the 3rd party confirmation of May 2013, that perhaps Rossi and Defkalion were not going to come through for us. Just because the Sun is behind a cloud does not mean that it is not there. There is a time to have faith, and there is a time to doubt. Now is the time to have faith. Otherwise we are not being true to ourselves. We know what we know and we saw what we saw. To doubt that is a problem within ourselves, not a problem with Rossi or Defkalion.