Reasonable Doubts?

After two-plus years of publishing E-Cat World I have noticed a change in the tenor of the conversation regarding LENR — more specifically LENR+, the high powered brand of LENR that Rossi and Focardi introduced in early 2011. For a long time it seemed that we were in detective mode here, looking for every sliver of information that could corroborate the validity of the extraordinary claims. It seemed that early on, many people were hopeful of the technology being real, but couldn’t bring themselves to fully get off the fence.

It feels like things have changed now. The independent E-Cat test report and the recent Defkalion live demo appear to have put a lot of concerns to rest regarding the reality of the LENR+ phenomenon amongst those who have been following the story closely with an open mind. (I’m not referring here to those hardened skeptics who seem to have an irrational emotional objection to LENR+)

These are just my impressions gathered from reading what people on this and other sites are saying, along with talking to trusted friends on the topic. But I am wondering if I am right on this, and would like to submit to the collective wisdom of the ECW readership if there are still reasonable doubts out there that should prevent us from saying “case closed — it’s real, and let’s move on to the next stage which I believe is sharing the news with the 99.99 per cent of people who haven’t heard about this story which I feel deserves the attention of people everywhere.

  • Thinks4Self

    After pondering the evidence I would have to say the only reasonable doubt left is:

    How long can a reactor run on a single load of fuel?

    LENR has plenty of documented replications more than ball lightning. With all of Rossi’s demos, his third party report and Defkalion’s demos it is reasonable to conclude LENR+ is possible to acheive. The runs on the third party report show it can be done for a few days. Once longer runs can be shown somebody on a major news outlet will run a story on it and it will be a new day.

  • Ivy Matt

    “…let’s move on to the next stage which I believe is sharing the news with the 99.99 per cent of people who haven’t heard about this story…”

    That’s the next stage? Some people have been doing exactly that for the last 2.5 years.

  • Enduser

    A bit of gentle skepticism. The oft judge of success in LENR is to see if more energy comes out than goes in. This happens all the time, for example, light a match and set a newspaper alight. The paper creates more heat than the match does.

    We all know that this is balanced by the energy in creating the newspaper which would have been more than that used by making a match.

    Looking just at Rossi’s apparatus, what if the energy used to create his “charge” is greater that the energy inputs of his system? Not a realistic example, but if his charge contains a few grams of moon dust, say, then there’s no cheap heat.

    Have all the energy inputs been accounted for?

  • Arthur B

    When will Rossi’s partner make himself known?

    To answer that question we have to put ourselves in their (Rossi & C0) shoes.

    Over the last 12 months Rossi has mentioned on a number of occasions that his top priority is the produce electrical power on a commercial scale. I believe he has already done that and is now busy commissioning the first plant to supply full electrical power to his E-Cat factory. If it is done right there should always be an excess of electrical power, which is fed back to the local utility company. The E-Cat driven electrical power plant can then run 24/7 at maximum efficiency.

    So now we have a factory producing E-Cat that is 100%+ powered by E-Cats. It would be the worlds first truly 100% green factory and a blue print for all future factories. This would be the ideal time to open up to the world.

    It is a win, win, win situation. For Rossi, his partner & the utility company.

    Arthur B

  • Roger Bird

    So, maryyugo got an invite and passed on it. Does that mean that he/she does not even believe his/her own words. How then are we expected to give a hoot what he/she says?

    • dsm

      This is quite something !.

      Mary is in the act of digging her own grave with her tongue. Lets not slow her down.

      DSM

      • Roger Bird

        When even the hardcore skeptopaths believe in LENR+, that is like meta-scientific proof.

      • Allan Shura

        May be Dick Smith will offer again and accept a million dollar challenge like with the e-cat. A technical writer in Australia claimed (after Rossi turned the offer down) to know the why how of the e-cat being a fake. Yet we haven’t heard from them since.

        • dsm

          Dick Smith’s 1m bet expired end feb 2013.

          Sadly to me, in a conversation this week Dick remains convinced that both DGT and Andrea Rossi are scammers. I have a great deal of respect for Dick but said to him I disagree about it being a scam.

          I offered to explain why I no longer see evidence of a scam (mis-statements a-plenty yes) but this offer has not been followed up on by Dick as yet. But, I have subsequently concluded it is not worth me trying to explain (the science baffles most people) and so I won’t.

          It is just so hard enough for anyone of any intellect to work out the complexities of what is happening and to work out the value of opinions being made by some very smart but contradictory people.

          I am satisfied I am seeing blog attack posters who work in the hot fusion industry who won’t let honesty get in the way of tearing LENR+/HENI down – some IMHO have become rabid and I trust that most intelligent readers can see this behaviour and know it for what it is (i.e. attack a demo (stated to be just that) as if it were a failed scientific validation exercise – what is called a ‘strawman’ argument).

          I won’t name names as each of us has to figure things like that out for ourselves.

          DSM

    • AB

      His “skepticism” is merely an excuse to attack, belittle and besmirch.

      • Roger Bird

        I think that this is the case most of the time with these skeptopaths. That works pretty good in health studies because proof is difficult to come by. But in this case with LENR, I think that they have gotten themselves into a most difficult position because proof is on it’s way, and I think that they know it.

      • Thinks4Self

        Some people just like to argue. The internet is a candy store for these people. MY is obviously one of those persons and you would probably deem s/he an asset if MY was on your side in a debate. I hold no grudge and can’t wait to see MY’s reaction to a story on a major news station about a running E-Cat plant or a Defkalion third party test done at MIT or something. I think that it won’t be along wait. But then again I’ve been watching since Rossi’s little pipe bomb reactor demo and s/he was going for broke even then.

  • MStone

    I am still on the fence optimistically.

    Not because of a lack of positive evidence; but, because the implications of this invention are so staggering,so world changing, that I have to see it working in a true commercial application before I come down off of the fence. The e-cat needs a “bloom energy moment”. Convince Google to install it at one of its server farms…then talk to me.

  • Eric

    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.no/2013/07/defkalion-has-kept-its-promise.html

    Comment section:
    John Hadjichristos, CTO of Defkalion just invited Mary Yugo to perform a test in one of Defkalions labs.

    She immediately tries to weasel herself out of it, big surprise! I urge all of you to remind MY of this invitation everywhere she post her “expert” comments in the future.

    • Timycelyn

      I guess George Hody didn’t fancy the pretty irreversible operation he would need to turn up in his ‘Mary Yugo’ persona.

      Not that there wouldn’t have been a substantial queue of people ready and willing to assist him in any small alterations he needed making to his anatomy…… 😉

      • Thinks4Self

        No, I think it is more likely MY knows that their position is wrong and once it is proven without a doubt that LENR+ is real they want to be able to slink off into the ether from which they came anonymously.

    • daniel maris

      Marvellous! I am sure we will all remind her/him…and I will off shortly to Independent E Cat News to see what the sceptical constituency have to say on the matter. 🙂

    • dsm

      “Not tonight please Yannis, I have just contracted a very nasty headache”
      .
      Poor Mary, at last done-in, either way you look at it.
      .
      DSM

    • GreenWin

      This is THE weasel of the decade! Given opportunity to personally, hands-on test the Hyperion with her own instruments – she weasels. Mary/Hody/Potenza has now disgraced even the last of the skep topathz.

      • Barry

        You got to give it to John Hadjichristos for putting MY in her place. Karma was bound to catch up with her.
        I can understand her dilemma though, with all her aliases, she would need 10 plane tickets.

    • bachcole

      I would guess that maryyugo would need airfare in order to do that. I personally couldn’t do it without a round trip ticket, as much as I would like to.

      maryyugo has become legendary in her/his own time. Too bad he/she did not follow through. If he/she had, she could have been the hero of the century. If the Defkalion was real, he/she could switch parties and been a huge hero. If it wasn’t, then still she/he would have been the darling of that most gracious and charming of groups the skeptopaths.

    • Gerrit

      Bravely bold Mary Yugo rode forth from Camelot.
      She was not afraid to die, brave Mary Yugo !
      She was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways,
      Brave, brave, brave, Mary Yugo !

      She was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp,
      Or to have her eyes gouged out, and her elbows broken;
      To have her kneecaps split, and her body burned away;
      And her limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Mary Yugo!

      Her head smashed in and her heart cut out
      And her liver removed and her bowels unplugged
      And her nostrils raped and her bottom burned off

      When danger reared its ugly head,
      She bravely turned her tail and fled.
      Yes, brave Mary Yugo turned about
      And gallantly she chickened out.
      Bravely taking to her feet
      She beat a very brave retreat,
      Bravest of the brave, Mary Yugo!

    • Gerrit

      When danger reared its ugly head,
      She bravely turned her tail and fled.
      Yes, brave Mary Yugo turned about
      And gallantly she chickened out.
      Bravely taking to her feet
      She beat a very brave retreat,
      Bravest of the brave, Mary Yugo!

      • timycelyn

        Truly, we are getting nearer and nearer the Holy Grail…. 😉

    • Stephen

      Actually the story continued, with CuriousChris giving a counter proposal for a test. However Hadjichristos has not replied anymore. Boring. So much talking and talking in this cold fusion story: AR is a king of story telling but he has plenty of disciples, even in the skeptics field…

      • Stephen

        However is it really so complicate?!? This is a machine that sucks some electricity and heats up some water. I don’t want to say it is trivial, but we are not talking about rocket science either…

        Pack this thing in a configuration which can be easily moved (say a small and very basic trailer with no hidden comparts, with a nice plug and water inlet/outlet) bring to the garage of a bl..dy authoritative authority willing to test it. DGT runs the reactor on the tester electricity and water. Let both the tester and DGT measure water temperatures/flows and power consumptions in the way they want… so that nobody is scared to be cheated. Forget about disclosing all the other data of the reactor: inner temperatures, radiation, we don’t care… this is only confusing things. Disclose the data and let anybody analize it as they like and rise, if they can, rationally and quantitatively motivated criticism.

        I don’t understand neither MY+CC discussing about how impossibly complicate it is do that, nor Defkalion staff not doing this TODAY instead of wasting time challenging MY on a blog.

  • GreenWin

    A bit OT but reasonable speculation: It is now certain that Doosan Heavy the Korean industrial giant, is buying Ansaldo Energia (Siemens dropped out recently.) Ansaldo is the Italian energy division of Finmeccanica SpA, Italy’s defense industry leader. Ansaldo has been a supporter of Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat and LENR in general. They sent an executive to speak on the LENR Panel at NI Week last year.

    The fun begins at Doosan’s Heavy Industries and Construction division. They are big on alternative, green, clean, etc. energy. They build windmills and fuel cells. They also have developed an interesting new technology called a “Superconducting Generator/Motor.” It is a generator that uses superconductor coils instead of copper. This suggests the potential for high system efficiency 50-60% LENR power plants – provided combined cycle or better steam turbines are used.

    Further speculation would be to combine this technology with the magnetic anomaly described by DGT in its Hyperion. If the Hyperion’s mag field can be phase pulsed, SC coils in near field can convert that energy directly to electricity. Solid state fusion energy. Nice.

    • Thinks4Self

      Nice thought but super conductors and LENR reactors are on opposite ends of the temperature scale in regards to operating temperatures. It would be like storing your ice cubes on top of your operating pottery kiln.

      • GreenWin

        Good point T4S. This is what smart engineering is all about. The hotfusion boys have the same problem on a massive scale. They use huge superconductors in a device (ITER) designed to sustain the heat of the Sun. Interesting part of SC is increasing ability to operate at near-room temp.

        • Thinks4Self

          Need some real good material engineering and for sure, if you are going to get a superconductor close enough to the to the reactor core to use the described magnetic field, keep it insulated from the heat and and not dampen the field.

          • AlainCo

            It seems it is desperate. the neutrons in normal mode would destroy the superconductors, who are complex material. It create transmutation and allocations which are evil for superconduction.

            for structure it is a big problem, more or less addresses by the people who worked for superphenix, but a nuclear reactor is a big boiler, not a subtle macroscopic quantum machinery designed to transport electrons without resistance.

    • daniel maris

      I think you’ve done this speculation before Greenwin – what’s the point?

      • bachcole

        Seems like some people are more cavalier about connecting dots than the average person, and some people are more conservative about connecting dots than the average person.

      • GreenWin

        Daniel, Ansaldo Energia is the only big energy company openly supporting LENR. While there may be others conducting research, Ansaldo is a leader. So, now that Ansaldo is going to Doosan, we may see industrial-level LENR prototypes emerging.

        Considering these pages are filled with speculation on all things Rossi, tracking established business interests in LENR is a reasonable contribution.

  • Jim

    A larger part of the problem of wider interest is that there are still significant questions on:

    A) How much work is left to produce commercially impactful power (i.e.
    high COP, controllable, mass production)
    > Person on the street wants to know “when will my energy bill go down?”; “when can I buy one?” The answers are probably “not real soon”, at which point people turn back to the latest celebrity news.

    B) How much difference cheap energy could really make to the world (which I believe most people don’t understand)

    I think there’s some leverage in question B), though when I try to work it in my head, it just keeps coming up with body counts:

    > Cheap energy could prevent
    >> X hundred thousand deaths per year from malnutrition due to crop failure due to lack of irrigation water
    >> X hundred thousand deaths per year from water born disease due to lack of energy to boil water
    >>> X million children losing education per year because of no night lighting in the home
    >> X hundred thousand impacts due to military budgets focused on defending oil states
    etc etc etc

    It would be good to see a blog devoted to these statistics alone.

    • Mason

      Jim,

      I agree.

      It is important to define the benefits of the excess cash becoming available in the family budget when the cost of heat & electricity drops by 50-75%. What are the benefits to health or the environment when dung or scarce wood is no longer used. What is the next incremental item ‘purchased’ when time used to scrounge or cash becomes available and the cost of energy becomes negligible?

      Also, it is hard to imagine the full scope of impact on geopolitics when access to fossil fuels doesn’t drive military budgets, military action, terrorism, etc. The number of lives saved is real.

      And, on the other side of the coin, it is also important to recognize the dislocation on the 100’s of millions of people dependent upon or invested in the fossil fuel industry as industry shifts from ‘old’ to ‘new’.

  • AB

    For those wondering about the “trouble Defkalion is in” according to some rumors.

    @ ALL
    I apologize to the readers of the blog (at least those true and authentic, not with those who come here to check and create flames) for the incomprehensibility of a small number of comments rimpallati in the last days of VoA (Voice of America) Go Katto, Nobody, MYSTERY and myself.
    I will try to explain in short what I’ve rebuilt.
    Two days ago (Saturday night) I came to know that rumor that a group of unidentified Italian researchers do not know when (presumably before the recent stream of 22 and 23 July) and do not know where, had the opportunity to to test the reactor Defkalyon Hyperion 5: the result would have been merciless in the sense that the reactor greek not only would not work at all, but it would have been exposed a real trick endeavored to believe that the reactor functions. In other words, the unidentified group have discovered a scam.
    I finally understood what the hell they were referring to a series of cryptic comments appeared on the blog in recent days. I fact that this (drab) story has landed on 22 steps through the comments of VoA, appeared for the first time on 25 July (note well, that person in a way that is VoA access the blog with two different Google Account) as you can see on Search over 22 to access all his comments.
    Reasoning. If someone really was aware of details of a scam should immediately rush to the judiciary and to tell everything he knows, having had the opportunity to see with their own eyes and measure with their own tools. And of course showing evidence of everything. Already the evidence. Why the VOICE also says that the unidentified group because ironclad NDA, did not take with him to produce any evidence to the judiciary, made somewhat surreal!
    For my part, beyond these rumors, I do not know anything else.
    And suspecting that this is a great hoax, a gypsy summer, a trappolone organized by some person of much wit and very little soul, who loves to play with his neighbor more than help, I will not in any way be USED, I and this blog, to perpetuate the flame. Therefore this time every comment that goes behind the flame (lit from VoA) will be deleted.
    And for 24 hours I close the comments to the blog, so that everyone can reflect on how far in the future this blog defend against manipulation attempts so manigolde (not to mention awkward).
    Thanks for your attention

    P.S. Obviously it is not true that “someone is working to add 22 Search a fantastic feature that allows … to find out if they wrote / write on this blog google people with different accounts but identical IP will see some good :)”
    I said it yesterday just to try to scare those who had a little ‘guilty conscience … unnecessarily … because people who write in here with a guilty conscience proves to have excellent knowledge and computer tools.

    In other words, someone started the rumor of Defkalion cheating during a test, however Passerini believes it to be a false rumor.

    http://translate.google.com/#it/en/

    http://22passi.blogspot.com/2013/07/occhio-quel-che-vedete.html?showComment=1375111156709#c767509322797651870

    • daniel maris

      Maybe it was a supersceptic determined to find something wrong?

      • AB

        I find it difficult to believe that a group of scientists would find evidence of fraud and then accept to remain silent due to a NDA. Mainly because of the legal implications: I believe that they would seriously run the risk of becoming accomplices in the fraud.

    • GreenWin

      “Most Americans have never heard VOA, as the law prohibits it from broadcasting to domestic audiences. As a news organization, it strives to maintain journalistic integrity against the perception that it is a “propaganda” arm of the US government. VOA’s legislative charter requires it to “present the policies of the United States clearly and effectively.” CS Monitor

      • AB

        The VoA in the post refers to a user.

      • Omega Z

        GW

        A recent development.
        VOA will very soon be broadcast in the U.S.A.

        AB response was VOA in his post is a user name

        • GreenWin

          Thanks for clarifying that guys.

    • Kim

      Could somebody condense AB above message
      into 5 short lines, I can’t understand it.

      Respect
      Kim

      • Barry

        AB is quoting Daniele Passerini from his website through Google translate, making the message even more cryptic.

        • daniel maris

          I always get the impression that Passerini’s prose is already very allusive and eliptical. Adding Google Translate to teh mix makes it really off-planet-speak.

      • Preston

        There is a rumor that a group of unidentified Italian researchers who were testing the Defkalion reactor found evidence of fraud.

    • Fibb

      FUD campaigns will certainly ramp up as the lenr+ commercialers continue to lift their skirts.

      • Gerrit

        First they ignore you,
        then they laugh at you,
        then they fight you, <—– we are here
        then you win.

        • fortyniner

          Concur – classic sequence is in process.

    • Hal

      Would that be Gary Wright?, after his extortion attempt on Bob Rohhner I wouldn’t put anything beyond him,

      • Omega Z

        Hal

        You may have a point. Fits his M.O. Legalese is what he used to try to blackmail Rohhner. He fakes legal ability, but has none.

        NDA is to protect Intellectual property. If one knows of fraud,, NDA is non binding. In fact they could be held as an accomplice after the fact if they knowingly withheld this knowledge.

    • Stephen

      Seems somebody bluffing he has some insider info, just to check out the reaction of the others in the blog. Interesting idea. And a bit psychotic too.

  • Stephen

    I think an interesting question is what happens to mainstream science if LENR+ turns out to be real and a reactor hits the market. That would be kind of fun…

    I think skepticism is fine in general: I believe it is very important to be skeptical and put our own and others’ claims at test… but in the past decades we have seen from some people a kind of skepticism which seems really too strong to me, at times an even UNscientific one… “too strong” in particular if in the end it turns out they were wrong!

    Recovering from an error and step by step re-admint LERN within legitimate science is one thing and it is probably doable… but having LERN+ going mainstream in the form of a product you can buy on the market… well, that’s another thing. I think that would be quite hard to explain.

    • Allan Shura

      There is a lot we still do not understand or have not proven about
      the phenomenon of electricity but that is not a reason for not using it’s practical applications.

    • dsm

      Stephen

      We need have no illusions about how long it will take for any of this to ‘hit the market’ it just won’t happen as quickly as we may hope.

      Wankel rotary engines are generally superior in performance, moving parts etc: to conventional piston engines – they took decades to end up in the Mazda but even now are still niche. Paul Moller has been using the rotary design as superior types of engines, to try to get his Moller Sky Car in the air. Conventional piston engines were never in consideration.

      Point here is that LENR/LENR+ is new energy and anyone seriously going to market has to do a lot of repeat ‘test-disassemble-analyze-test’ work of the finished devices in order to avoid potential mass litigation should they make one silly slip up in the design allowing that these have never been designed into appliance nor sold before.

      It was always grossly optimistic of Andrea to imagine he could have home eCats on the market by end 2013. For legal protection alone it won’t happen. There have to be extended pilot tests of the devices. Regulatory bodies have to know if they require special expertise to install & manage & if so that training and regulation has to be in place. Bureaucracy is often ugly and restrictive but is also needed.

      Industrial experiments with large partners makes infinitely better sense as they are less constrained by such measures and in effect accelerate the acceptance and handling of such new technology.

      I would be amazed to see a home eCat on the market inside 5 years once scientific validation is fully accepted (I have 2 on order – close to the top of the queue).

      DSM

      • Stephen

        Makes sense.

        I wonder if these people (in particular AR!) are aware of the fact that any discrepancy between what they say and what later happens has a very strong impact on the evolution of general opinion on their supposed products. AR has already accumulated a substantial amount of significant ones.

        I think they should be very careful and make sure what they say finds a clear match in the real world… this is a matter of being professional and reliable: if you are not like that, sooner or later you pay it… it’s normal.

  • clovis

    Hi, y’all
    I believe 100% in e-cat, and lenr, but if you have read any of my post,
    over the years you would have already,known this.-lol- big time believer.
    in my opinion the e-cat is coming into fruition, very fast, like no other similar product, I know about, all at the direction of one Andrea Rossi.
    this guy is one of the most remarkable men I have ever read or heard about.
    This great discovery, was uncovered by AR, and brought along this far and fast,is historic, it is my belief, that nothing can stand against this discovery, no power on earth, because I believe that a greater power is in control. just saying.

  • georgehants

    Science 2
    Solar Hydrogen Energy, Artificial Photosynthesis, Production Breakthrough.
    http://www.science20.com/news_articles/solar_hydrogen_energy_artificial_photosynthesis_production_breakthrough-117273

  • Stephen Goodfellow

    I was one of those individuals sitting on the fence (still am) who watched Defkalion’s streaming video. I must admit, my skepticism dropped by several magnitudes.

  • Fibb

    Marco DL wrote:
    Hi Mats,
    Are you following 22passi?
    Try to call Melis, should be valuable
    Seems that DGT & friends are in very big troubles.

    matslew.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/comments-on-defkalion-reactor-demo-in-milan#comment-1035

    ANYONE KNOW WHAT MARCO IS REFERRING TO?

  • Shane D.
    • Jim

      @Shane

      Thanks for the post. Great story.

      Phoenix rising from the ashes!

  • enduser

    I trawled around the net last night and found positive (or agnostic to positive) text about LENR in all sorts of places including NASA, Univ.of Illinois, MIT, Huffington Post, Wired UK, Forbes,Univ.of NSW, etc.

    Think about hoaxes – nothing as big as LENR is today, has turned into a hoax before, that I can think of.

    Putting these things together logically suggests that something is going on. Why are semi government Swedish organisations so interested? Again, it seems something is going on.

    My view – something is going on.

    • Fibber McGourlick

      That was apparent in 1989, but big science ignored it. And so did almost everone else. It’s still happening with big science and yet it’s become obvious to anyone who might care to look around that a major phenomena has been uncovered and is–purportedly–being developed into a transformational device that will solve some of mankind’s major problems if successful.

      • Roger Bird

        “That was apparent in 1989”. It was apparent to you, Fibber. Obviously it wasn’t apparent to everyone.

  • Stephen

    For me this all started with the eCat… funny story, I quickly got convinced it was probably a scam, say, 90%. The guys from Sweden were making the thing a bit more plausible but the shady past of AR plus his very weird behavior plus the bad reputation of cold fusion were the killers to me. To be quite honest, I still wonder whether AR somehow aims at discrediting himself or he is just like that…

    Then, trying to look through the mist, I have searched for further info about LENR and I quickly convinced myselft that numbers did not add up: why some people at NASA is doing very similar things? what about this 60min by CBS? why are these other people so strongly critical? Here I reached stage 2: I got convinced that LENR should be studied and I was kind of disappointed about the mindset in mainstream science… I thought “this behavior is just as unscientific and irrational as the one of blind believers”. At present I would rate as 100% worth investigating LENR, with a 99% confidence there is some real science in it.

    About LENR+… I think we go deeper into the speculation. I recently started to run out of rational answers to the question “why not?”. This is a fashinating story, at present it is unbelievable to me that LENR+ is real… AND it is unbelievable as well that it is completely fake. I still have a hard time in believing AR claims are genuine or partly genuine, mostly because of his strange promotion style and shady track record… but then what about Defkalion? why NASA, Piantelli, etc seem positive on similar systems? Everybody gone crazy and delusional? How big can a hoax become, how many people can it involve before it explodes? So let’s say I don’t buy LENR+ yet and that I am not sure in which unbelievable world we are living, exactly. The only thing I am sure of is that it is unbelievable 🙂

    Finally, I am just a bit scared that if these reactors are a scam they will risk killing research on LENR. It seems to me that things have taken a quite radical path. Also all this cannot last much longer now that there are strong claims of controllable and basically market-ready reactors… or all this will be discredited.

    • AB

      Good to see some honest skepticism. I think most of us here started out with varying degree of doubts, but eventually realized that LENR is almost certainly real despite popular opinion saying otherwise. The case for LENR+ isn’t as strong but there are many reasons to be optimistic about it.

    • Omega Z

      Stephen

      I find it hard to believe that NASA would begin a development project with Boeing based on a flask that produces small quantities of excess heat.

      This is not a sound bases for such a project. I can only assume they have much more knowledge then “WE” have privy to.

      Possibly, they have access to Rossi’s 1Mw plant sold to a secret military customer. Or possibly a project by someone we are totally unaware of.

      Regardless, it would have to be very advanced to the point that they can make solid speculations of, Size, Output, Energy Density, Etc..
      Otherwise, One would have no Idea how to design such a project at all. In a Time of Tight Budgets with cuts taking place, it would make no sense.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Sound familiar?

    There is a lot of politics around the China Broad Group factory mass produced skyscraper. If Broad Group succeeds with the successful construction of an over 200 story skyscraper at about 30% lower cost than other competitors in China, then Broad Group will have a lot of momentum towards their goal of gaining over 30% of the world commercial building market. This would mean getting over 50% of the China commercial building market. This is why the attacks on the China Broad Group skyscraper have been so intense and why there are powerful opponents trying to delay the project with regulatory approval barriers.
    http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/07/mixed-reports-and-chinese-media-attacks.html

  • artefact

    ColdFusionNow.org:

    ICCF-18 Post Thoughts: Long Hours, High Spirits, and The Young Guns.

    http://coldfusionnow.org/iccf-18-post-thoughts-long-hours-high-spirits-and-the-young-guns/

    • Barry

      Interesting summary. It’s inspiring to hear about the “Young Guns.” At MIT, Peter Hagelstein seems quite discouraged by the lack of young people taking an interest. It’s good to see him taking photos with young enthusiastic people. For his sake I wish he would transfer to the U of Missouri where he would be appreciated and his funding wouldn’t get taken away like it did at MIT. It’s good to see him get acknowledged for all he has done.

      The renewed interest by the young is a good sign.

      • GreenWin

        “It would not matter to me if a thousand other investigations were to subsequently perform experiments that see excess heat. These results may all be correct, but it would be an insult to these investigators to connect them with Pons and Fleischmann.” MIT Prof. Ron Ballinger 1991

        Barry, U Mizzou is protected from the tentacles of MIT only due to Sydney Kimmel’s private money. The orthodoxy might try to pressure Kimmel to stop funding, but he is independently wealthy and that makes a great difference.

        I lobby for MIT to admit its past transgressions and fund its own LENR research lab. They have plenty of talent being layed off their hotfuse program. With Ballinger and Parker gone, MIT has a chance to save face and play a productive role in the discovery and distribution of the New Fire.

        • Barry

          Sign me up GreenWin.

  • Omega Z

    E-cat selfpowering???

    Marco Serra July 27th, 2013 at 4:11 AM

    Dear Ing. Rossi.
    in the last 2 years to immagine a future applications list was my favorite hobby. ECat announcement gave me the optimism I’ve never got in this era of global warming.

    I think there can be 2 possible lists of future long term applications: one that takes in accounnt an ECat that need electricity to produce heat and one other for an ECat that self-produce the electricity it need and possibly a bit more. No need to say that the second list would be much much more interesting.

    Which list do you think it’s better for us to compile ?

    Best Regards Marco
    —————————-
    Andrea Rossi July 27th, 2013 at 7:14 AM

    Marco Serra:
    Both.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

  • Craig Houghton

    I have spoken to many people about the ecat, explained what it does, about the cost of running the unit and about the clean energy it produces. The response from these poeple is indifference. They seem not to care or dismiss it thinking that it is some sought of hoax. Untill the mainstream media start to talk about the ecat ordinary folk are not interested. The word needs to be got out and I urge everyone with an interest to speak up everywhere they can, Facebook, twitter, at work, to friends and so on, just keep talking bout it.

    • Isac

      Lets say I dont have any friends on google, facebook or twitter, how can I still reach out to other people?

      Easy! I use the Hashtag —–> #

    • fortyniner

      I’m not sure that is the solution. Without the simple proof of a cold fusion reactor in open operation, talking about the possibilities will just sound like delusion to the majority of people. They are too conditioned to accept anything that is beyond their reality bubbles and will actively (sometimes aggressively) reject any information that does not conform to their limited world views.

      Just like chemtrails, UFOs and ‘shadow governments’ it doesn’t matter how real a thing actually is, when hard proof requires some knowledge and possibly additional research to understand, and the truth is continually subjected to dissemination of deliberate disinformation and other attacks.

      With the exception of passing links relating to tests and demos of working CF prototypes to those who are equipped to understand the information, it is probably better to keep quiet for now. Trying to convince people on the basis of what we have now is not only futile, but will simply increase the number of sheeple who ‘know’ that such a thing is impossible, and is the territory of tinfoil-hat-wearing loons. Not only that, but such people are extremely unlikely to play any constructive part in cold fusion development, and so attempting to inform them is simply a waste of time and effort.

    • Stephen

      No I think talking won’t help much, even if maybe it is not useless… what is really needed are HARD FACTS. Provided the strong discredit around the subject in the past decades, they should also be bullet-proof facts. Bullet-proof beyond what normally reasonable…

      Either many very reproducible experiments that break through the skepticism in the communiy… or a product on sale.

    • Omega Z

      Craig Houghton

      @ you & those who replied.

      Put a Fusion device on the 6 o’clock news & guess what?

      The Indifference for the most part will continue to prevail.
      Sad, but True. This is the World of today.

      Their main response will be OK, So when will my utilities become cheaper. Ho Hum- ZZZzzzz.

  • Redford

    I do think it needs more yet. Ecat front needs at least a publication of 3rd party report and another replication to be 99% sure. Defk needs 2 published replication as well. Also all of this will only proovezthe potential but not that a viable product is actually there.

    Right now I am 75% positive on Rossi has it, 45 on Defkalion (didn’t forgot all the past crap) and 30% confident than a product will be there ans sold to many customers in the next 2 years. And that’s already a very enthusiastic take when yoj consider the implications 🙂