Defkalion English Language Demo Thread, July 23

Here’s a new thread for discussion of today’s schedule presentation by Defkalion Green Technologies.

Today’s schedule of events at the ICCF-18 conference shows “Demonstration: Defkalion Reactor Startup” listed from 9:00-9:10 a.m. US Central time. This ties in with the schedule listed at http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-US which shows an event beginning at the same time.

It seems that today’s event will be something different than the discussion that took place yesterday in the Italian language webcast.

Comments:

1. Two tests. The first test will use argon (control, or dummy test). The second will use hydrogen

2. They are using the 5th generation reactor. Designed not for maximum COP, but for them to control and understand the reactor.

3. 60 grams of active materials inside the reactor — 5 grams of nickel, the rest is supportive material

4. Plasma will trigger the reactors.

5. Water coming from the grid 25 C.

6. Mats Lewan of NyTeknik (Swedish science magazine) on hand to do testing.

7. Water flow 0.898 liters per minute.

8. They have started preheating the resistors.

9. Now in the active run — hydrogen rather than argon. Plasma is now ignited, and output power trace is now higher than the input. John H says they will gradually decrease the input power from here.

Right now input is 2.3, output is 2.8

  • Kommisar

    I posted this in reply to another thread but got no response, so here it goes.

    Given that 60 grams of material was added to the reactor (as stated in the article above) and the total power generated, can we exclude the possibility that a conventional reaction occurred, based on power density – as I believe was done for an E-Cat demo?

    Thanks!

  • georgehants

    Cracks in the Periodic Table [Preview]
    The discovery of element 117 filled the last remaining gap in the periodic table as we know it. But even as it is being completed, the table may be losing its power
    —–
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cracks-in-the-periodic-table&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciam%2Ffeature-articles+%28Content%3A+Mind+Feature+Articles%29

  • Johnny English

    Yesterday was historic…almost like the moon landing, and just like the moon landing there are people that don’t believe it happened..

  • georgehants

    It is very interesting waiting for Mr. Rossi to comment.

  • Gerrit

    The streaming didn’t work for me and I haven’t watched the video yet.
    After reading Mats Lewan’s comments, this is what I make of the demo.

    Defkalion demonstrated a huge excess heat. They have made a very conservative power out calculation, completely ruling out any discussion about dry steam or wet steam.
    They made a control run with argon which showed that only about 85% of the input power was measured at the output.

    Those who still refuse to accept that this can be true are left with only one possible explanation for what they have seen, that Defkalion has faked the demo. But the openness (“you may cut the cables”) and professionalism that Defkalion displayed is speaking against that explanation.

    Most naysayers will ignore this demo, because it was not a scientific validation. Others might demand things that were not given in the demo, like “independence” and “no black box”.

    But the demo won’t go away and it puts the 3rd party validation of the ecat in a different light too.

    The statement from Alex Xanthoulis that they are working with major companies is interesting news. Big oil might very well be one of those companies and they are not in to stop it. They simply want to create a whole new revenue model, expect big oil to lobby the government to make laws that will effectively give them exclusive rights for handling this new technology.

    It is fair to assume that anyone making negative remarks about LENR is either happily clueless while overestimating their understanding of the topic or experiencing severe cognitive dissonance.

    • Owen

      Or getting a paycheck to bash it (which I think is very common among serious trolls like MY).

  • artefact

    ColdFusionNow.org:

    ICCF-18 Day 3: PHOTOS!

    http://coldfusionnow.org/iccf-18-day-3-photos/

    ” The incredible talent at this conference is mind-blowing. The following photos from Day 3 hopefully capture the excitement in the air while profiling both the presenters and diverse attendees. Can you feel the vibe of history in the making??? “

    • georgehants

      artefact, would it not be Wonderful if all science felt, as you describe above about all new knowledge gained from Research only and not as now cling desperately to dead-brained “expert opinion” equivalent to the ramblings of maryyago’s etc.

      • artefact

        I just listen to “expert opinion” I trust.

        The problem I see is that science is too much driven by money and not by curiosity.

        • georgehants

          If you where a young student how would you know which “expert opinion” to “trust”
          Surely only Evidence from Research in science has any value.
          Without the clear (temporary) Evidence, is not the only comment or “opinion” worth making, we don’t know! lets do the Research and find out.

  • Dickyaesta

    Hi Frank, Why do my comments now always go into moderation whereas when I had the all seeing eye in the right hand corner they passed smoothly. I am the same Dickyaesta or Dick_ya_esta which translates from Spanish ‘Dick(my name) is there already’. Thanks Frank for the care always and I hope you did have a good vacation.

  • Dickyaesta

    If you have huge HUGE magnaetic fields inside the reactor(accoring to Mats Lewan cuoting CTO John Hadjichristos) couldn’t you convert that in electric current directly.

  • Omega Z
    • Dsm

      I at first could not believe this was true but it is, and to compound it AFAICT his blog as been removed.

      Mark says he is not associating this sudden action with his interest in LENR but one can’t help but wonder.

      DSM

    • fortyniner

      Mr Gibbs has been steadily wandering further off the reservation for many months. I don’t think there can be much doubt that his latest blog post was a step too far for his bosses. Some troll calling himself ‘Keef Wivaneff’ seems to have been commissiond to dump all over the comments section, and now Gibbs is fired – I would say that the message to other journalists is fairly clear.

      As he apprears to have become an honest broker in this saga, I hope that Mark Gibbs finds employment with a more sympathetic publishing organisation, and hope to hear more from him on this subject. It seems that TPTB may have been severely rattled by DGT re-entering the arena in this way.

    • AB

      So he gets fired on the same day as making what’s probably his most daring LENR article yet. Seems like an unlikely coincidence.

    • Moren

      We should all send e-mails to Forbes showing our dissatisfaction with Gibbs’s termination.

      He is our only “friend” in mainstream media.

  • E_man

    In spite of I bealive DGT and E-cat, I no understand one think in yesterday presentation.
    At the time from 21:10 till 21:33 the output temp rised from 143°C to 166°C. But inner reactor temp was all the time 355°C-358°C an coolant flow was 0,57 – 0.59 litre/min also.
    How to explain this please?? Thanks for answers.

  • Stephen Taylor

    My take on today…historic. Very difficult study. Tremendous amount of information not previously available. Look for Yeung E. Kim’s presentation on Thursday. Aside: Mark Gibbs from Forbes is fired….no, I am not a conspiracy theorist but fear the entrenched energy status quo.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Mats Lewan after observing Defkalion’s demo today, “My general impression is that it’s a process that is similar to what I have seen at Rossi’s demos.”

    Alexandros Xanthoulis, President of Defkalion:

    “Let’s say I have Rossi’s formula, but I do not say it officially. My scientists have found a way to accomplish it. They need three months. I know what is in the reactor. I know everything. It was done with spectroscopy at Siena University of Padova (…) They tested the reactor without [Rossi] knew what they were doing, he continued.”

    Rossi’s attorney is going to have a real good time with the above.

    • Allan Shura

      Results don’t matter for some patent offices just theory on paper.
      How can Rossi get government protection what they claim does not
      exist?

    • dsm

      Bernie

      I think you need to read your way very carefully through this discussion you participated in a year ago on this matter of “DGT stole Rossi’s eCat”.

      http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/some-basic-principles-of-defkalions.html

      You keep taking a translated interview where neither party is a natural English speaker and interpret it the only way you want to see it. There are other very valid interpretations.

      Andrea Rossi stated on JoNP that he never let DGT anywhere near an eCat. Also the interview later corrected the translated miss-statement that DGT had done a spectral analysis of an eCat. That never happened. There was mention of a university doing this but any such analysis was of the ash & would not offer any analysis of the way the components were structured. Structure is critical.

      Anyone who read Piantelli’s 1995 patent and Andrea Rossi’s April 2008 Italian patent, had a very good idea of what was going on inside an eCat. Andrea and Focardi managed to get their 1st big eCat working between late July 2007 and mid Oct 2007. So why would it be impossible for DGT ?.

      Cheers

      DSM

    • caotain

      quoted fm BK:
      …………..
      Alexandros Xanthoulis, President of Defkalion:

      “Let’s say I have Rossi’s formula, but I do not say it officially. My scientists have found a way to accomplish it. They need three months. I know what is in the reactor. I know everything. It was done with spectroscopy at Siena University of Padova (…) They tested the reactor without [Rossi] knew what they were doing, he continued.”

      Rossi’s attorney is going to have a real good time with the above
      ———–

      This is the starting point for Rossi’s attorneys: DGT has stolen Rossi’s secret!

      The e-cat is unique and its secret has been stolen and CLEARLY STATED too!

    • Chris I

      I doubt there is any legal basis for accusing anyone of anything, unless they had explicitly accepted terms and conditions against such undertakings.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        dsm…….To counter your points…”Translation problems” ha ha, give me a break, Mats Lewan is a respected international reporter and very careful with his quotes. Lewan even referenced his old article when reporting on DGT recent demo, he thinks DGT cheated too. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3228376.ece
        “Rossi said no one stole his IP”. Rossi was duped and he does not want to admit it, that is why he is so careful now about his IP.

        Your statement about patents. Rossi’s patent does not reveal his IP.

        DGT cheated!

        Cheers.

        • Chris I

          Who was this reply for? I can’t connect it to my post.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Chris….you stated there is no legal basis…..They had a written agreement!

        • Chris I

          I did not state there is none, I said I doubt there is any…

          unless

          Now if you are correct that there was a written agreement then yes, of course.

    • Jim Anderson

      Rossi’s attorney is not going to have a good time. Rossi’s patent doesn’t state the secret of the E-cat. So patent protection is very unlikely. Rossi has acted to protect a trade secret. But if the trade secret was given to Defkalion then it isn’t a trade secret any more. If the secret was gained at a public display by the use of a spectroscope then it was no longer a secret. Rossi was aware a number of years ago that intellectual property law may not prevent others from duplicating his work and he has planned his actions based on that possibility. Last and not least the way Defkalion’s device works is so different from the way Rossi’s device works that it is very unlikely that any patent would cover Defkalions device.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Jim Anderson…It was not a public demonstration, they had an agreement, DGT simply stole Rossi’s invention. Patents have nothing to do with it. Pretty simple, I have an agreement with a company to only distribute my invention, I bring it to them to demonstrate it, rather than just distribute they decide to manufacture and sell. Rossi goes to court to enforce the agreement.

  • Lu

    Defkalion delivered this time IMO. Very impressive and hopefully they will garner leads for commercial development. IMO Defkalion and Rossi are in a similar position: can replicate the effect but working (struggling???) to produce a commercial product which can be controllable and maintainable over a long period (6 months) within stated parameters (COP, temperature). I also don’t trust either of them very much but clearly they have something. Next up perhaps is disclosure of Rossi’s business partner and 1MW installation details. Hopefully this year.

  • Sanjeev
    • Kim

      Whats up with that HV power discrepancy?

      • Sanjeev

        Although he says the clamp meter was RMS meter, these meters are not designed to measure high frequency pulses correctly, so nothing can be said. The lower value measured by DGT can be explained if a duty cycle of 20% is assumed (Pulse remaining off for 80% time in a cycle)

        Anyway it should not matter, Mats considered higher input in his own calculation, makes marginal difference.

    • Sanjeev

      The real bomb is at the bottom, claims by Xanthoulis are interesting.
      I’m sure the clever guys here will figure out the names of their partners in minutes.

      • Kim

        A little irresponsible for a CEO
        to be bragging up pie in the sky
        interest from other Companies?

        Respect
        Kim

      • Ecco the Dolphin

        Most of the top 10 companies by revenue are from the oil/gas industry:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue

        • Sanjeev

          Perhaps he means top 10 in listed areas. 8-10 areas of application are listed, oil is not there. But oil industry will also benefit from it, they need a lot of heat to process it.

          • Gordon Docherty

            We still need all the oil we can get |(without doing too much damage) for materials – that’s why its mad to burn it!

        • Stephen Taylor

          I’m hoping for Walmart….:)

    • daniel maris

      All seems OK apart from the HV input issue.

    • artefact

      He writes:

      “UPDATE: I forgot to say that according to CTO John Hadjichristos there are HUGE magnetic fields inside the reactor as a result of the reaction, in the order of 1 Tesla if I remember right, possibly due to extremely strong currents over very short distances. Hadjichristos says the field is shielded by double Faraday cages, probably the reactor body and the external metal cover outside the heat insulation.”

      • Sanjeev

        Its not possible to shield 1 Tesla with that box. Need more info….
        Perhaps they mean large EM fields are generated, which is just radio waves.

  • Kim

    I Watched the entire Test in Milan

    Totally Impressed!

    How do you tell the world that hydrocarbons
    are now obsolete.

    Stuck on Stupid.

    If we could get to 2500 C we could turn
    water directly into hydrogen and oxygen.

    Turn generators for ever with only pure
    water as the end product.

    Respect
    Kim

    • MStone

      2500C ? Nickle melts at something like 1400C.

      You can split hydrogen and Oxygen from water at 1000C…and Rossi’s hot cat can get up around there.

      So, this test is showing a COP of about 1.2 Which, in general, is good. But, Rossi is regularly at 6. Does this suggest that Dafkalion doesn’t have the “secret ingredient”? That Rossi is years ahead of Dafkalion? I know they said this wasn’t their “tricked out rig” but still.

      And WTH has Brilloin been doing lately? It feels like Rossi is in pole position by a country mile.

      • Kim

        You right it was 1000c

        Even better reason to split the
        steam to hydrogen and oxygen and
        produce electricity.

        I saw COP of 2.8 approaching 3.0
        at today’s test.

        Should all be Main Stream News

        Respect
        Kim

        • Gerrit

          according to Mats Lewan the COP might have been 10 !

          2,7 kW in -> 27 kW out (based on assumptions of good steam quality)

          However, Defkalion does not want a discussion about steam quality, therefore they left the vaporization energy out of the equation ending up with a very conservative energy out, leading to a COP of 1-3

      • Zaxxon

        I’m not sure what the purpose of using the ECAT’s energy output to heat up the electrolysis of water would be. The high temperature makes the process more efficient, but it still requires electrical current to split water, if you were then to burn the H2 or use it in a fuel cell, you would never get back more current (due to losses) than you used to split the water in the first place.

        Seems like the next logical step after using the ECAT’s steam for a turbine would be to try to increase the COP enough that a thermionic converter (like satellites use) would make sense. Then you’d have no moving parts on the back end.

        • Kim

          Its just that I read that 50%
          of water will split to h2 and o2
          at aprox. 2500c.

          No electricity needed.

          Yet thats just 50% and it may
          not work.

          Higher temperatures of 3000c
          is better but every thing melts
          at these temperatures ect…

          Respect
          Kim

        • Babble

          The best method to produce electricity (from heat) is to use a closed loop steam generator system. One method for using non electric engines is a Cyclone Power steam engine. This is an all fuel engine but could be coupled to these LENR heat sources instead of burning fuel. The engine runs on a self contained closed loop steam system.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        +1

    • Thinks4Self

      That might be possible. According to the SPAWAR patent back in April nickel produced only x-rays, if this holds true for Rossi and Defkalion’s devices then what they have is an endothermic reaction that produces x-rays with total energy greater than the input energy. Changing those x-rays to heat can be done with a fair amount of isolation to the reactor core. A foamed ceramic inner reactor wall with a steel outer jacket to generate the output heat might be enough to do it. If you generate enough x-rays in core you can heat the steel outer wall to 2500C if the inner wall has enough insulation value you should be able to keep the nickel from melting or causing a runaway reaction. Maybe you even actively cool the core with a double wall and a water jacket in between them.

      • Thinks4Self

        A vacuum filled void between the core and the steel exterior would help as well.

        • Dickyaesta

          ,but is difficult to maintain. 😉

      • Thinks4Self

        After further review the other wall would need to be tungsten or a high temperature alloy. Not being a materials specialist I forgot to check the melting point of steel.

  • George N

    This is great!

    • Stephen Taylor

      +1

  • Sanjeev

    Rossi’s supporters should also cheer up !
    Indirectly, this demo only confirms that Rossi has goods. Although Rossi needs another excuse now, to dust off DGTs claims.

    He is clearly ahead with his ECat-HT tech, but as was said in the demo, the displayed prototype was at least 2 generations older than their latest one. So they are possibly ready to launch a product soon, good news everywhere.

    • MStone

      I am skeptical about the “2 generations old” claim. If you can’t get patents and your success is determined by sales to the public and private sector(and you have heavy competition)….every demonstration is an advertisement. And, you want to put your prize pig on the selling block.

      • CHARLES(SWVA)

        Never, never, never sell your prize pig. Keep it for breeding purposes.

  • Johnny English

    there were some expert witnesses that were going to do the testing..but in the end John Hadjicristos had to pull someone from the crowd to do the testing…..
    The witnesses didn’t bother turning up