Open thread July 11th

I’m on vacation at the moment and am without normal internet access, so it has been a bit more difficult for me to give the site he normal amount of attention. I’ll put up an open thread today for peopl to postnews and views. I am trying to keep up with the latest topics, also with moderation-but it’s not always possible with my current schedule of activities. All should be back to normal next week.

  • Gordon Docherty

    An interesting development in palladium / heavy water – SPAWAR’s (supposedly defunct) low energy nuclear reaction research program has been granted an LENR patent to transmute radioactive elements into less harmful materials:

    http://energycatalyzer3.com/news/us-navy-has-been-granted-an-lenr-patent

    Perhaps the following would be a suitable theme song for LENR – In John 2:1-11, Jesus miraculously turns the water in six stone jars to wine – Stone Wine (another derivation of Stone Wine: Adam’s Ale or H-2-0 – very apt). Also, the Jubilee was a time when all debts were forgiven and slaves released. The theme, of course: When Johnny Comes Marching Home…

  • Oleksiy

    Hello guys

    I am thinking on making a petition to our local municipality (in Portugal) to acquire a eCat or Defkalion reactor – test it and if successful – deploy the technology for the heating (first) of the government institutions and hospitals/schools – where it wouldn’t need a consumer certification . I was wondering if anyone already made such petition, and what was the reaction.

    Any ideas are welcome

    With best regards,
    Oleksiy
    Esmoriz/Portugal

    • Roger Bird

      I bet that if you paid for it yourself, you could make them pay for whatever energy you could generate with it. That way you win twice, and you convert them.

      I hope that they are open minded. Even if it is not for residential purposes, the second that they hear the word “nuclear” or even “fusion”, they are going to freak-out. I have a forum buddy who is simply against it because it is new.

      In Google Translate Portuguese:

      Aposto que, se você pagou por ele, você pode fazê-los pagar por qualquer energia que você poderia gerar com isso. Dessa forma, você ganha duas vezes, e convertê-los.

      Espero que eles são de mente aberta. Mesmo que não seja para fins residenciais, segundo o que ouve a palavra “nuclear” ou até mesmo “fusion”, eles vão pirar-out. Eu tenho um amigo que forum é simplesmente contra, porque ele é novo.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Off topic, but fascinating lecture by Wise Young,MD,Phd, Professor and Chair, Department of Cell Biology and Neuroscience, Rutgers University Director, W.M. Keck Center for Collaborative Neuroscience discussing how China has pulled far ahead of the US and the West in stem cell treatment of spinal cord injuries.

    The US Medical Journals shun any information published by the Chinese experts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=41o1Mcy3ZYs#at=663

  • Gerrit

    I don’t know if this was brought to attention when Göran Ericsson and Stephan Pomp published their arxiv paper, but I think it is significant that those two professors are for the same “Tillämpad kärnfysik” department which translates to “applied nuclear physics”. Their field of research is plasma fusion and traditional nuclear applications.

    Surely they fear that a new breakthrough in nuclear research will eat up their funds as their research field would become irrelevant.

    Obviously it’s an classical issue of conflict of interest that lead these two professors to use such ad hominem tone in their paper.

    • GreenWin

      Gerrit, from the papers published by Ericsson, he is essentially an EE, working for electric utility “smart grid” security apps. Pomp has invented a “department” at University Uppsala, composed of one Professor, Mr. Pomp. His focus is traditional fission and hot fusion, parroting the APS.

      Pomp & Ericsson have worked in the past to debunk any non-orthodox approach to nuclear energy – having published an angry critique of an Italian team’s paper on piezzonuclear reactions. Now, they have thoroughly discredited themselves with their ad-hominem attack on Levi-Essen et al.

      • Roger Bird

        Wouldn’t it be nice if someone were to supply to us ALL of their email addresses so that we can let them know what we ALL think of their so-called critique.

  • Joe Shea

    No one, not even AER, deserves a vacation more than you do, Frank! I hope you have a wonderful, restful time and come back to us with your great intelligence just brimming over with new ideas.

  • blaze

    nteresting, looks like they’re already to build reactors based on these ideas:

    http://www.mvguam.com/local/news/22144-clean-nuclear-power-eyed.html

    http://globalenergycorporation.net/Tech.aspx

    Our experiments are repeatable.
    Our experiments have been replicated by others.
    Our experiments provide direct evidence that nuclear reactions are involved including the production of high-energy neutrons. Although our experimental results are not predicted by current nuclear physics theories, the results are real.

    The GeNiE Reactor is not prone to melt down since it doesn’t rely on a chain-reaction to produce high-energy neutrons. The GeNiE Reactor will extract more energy from the fuel than conventional nuclear Reactors. The GeNiE Reactor is lower cost since it doesn’t required enriched uranium and it doesn’t produce hazardous nuclear waste that is costly to handle.

    Officials of the Navy on Guam, including Capt. John V. Heckmann Jr., CO of Naval Facilities and a professional engineer, attended the GEC briefing.

    The GEC board of directors, Khim says, includes some well-known Washington D.C. Players, including former Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci, former Congressman and Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta, and former U.S. Congressman Tom Davis, among others.

    24 peer reviewed papers.

    Who needs Rossi if this works? I really dont need a LENR reactor in my basement, thank you…

    • captain

      Hi blaze, U say…
      Who needs Rossi if this works? I really dont need a LENR reactor in my basement, thank you…

      Before Rossi, NOTHING… and after Rossi’s e-cats running many yrs so far, everywhere, everymonth a …new discovery.

      One for all: e-cat works, and works too much well: once got fm USPTO his brevets, we’ll see in the near future one single E-CAT delivering a COP up to 100 (one hundred).

      • Pedro

        No matter how successfull AR will be in the end, we certainly can thank him for opening the floodgates.

        • blaze

          Thank Rossi for **** all. He could easy disclose and patent his work, but he choses to stick his middle finger up at the community of giants who’s shoulders he has stood upon.

          I hope the guy loses everything for the way he’s going about it.

          • Owen

            You might want to tone things down a bit. An attitude like that could get you banned around here. Plus, it’s really rude and unfair. Ask yourself why he hasn’t received a US or international patent yet. Could it be the system is rigged against breakthrough discoveries like LENR?

          • GreenWin

            A curiously bitter reply Blaze. Dr. Rossi has been nothing if humble and appreciative of those who paved the CF way. He has even been accommodating of the “snakes & clowns” such as Kirvit who may be a CCP officer.

            As others point out, before Rossi there was little movement in CF. Two short years after his 2011 demos in Bologna, it appears that cold fusion is here to stay.

            • Iggy Dalrymple

              Rossi is the catalyst of Cold Fusion.

          • Roger Bird

            blaze,

            your sense of frustration and disappointment is because of your expectations. You have been warned and you should have figured out by now that Rossi’s words on small things cannot be trusted. He is sitting on the biggest, most important discovery in the history of the world, and it is to be expected that his enthusiasm and excitement would impel him to say things before he should.

  • blaze

    Interesting poster from Toyota/Technova:

    http://www.claudiopace.it/giappone-fusione-fredda/?goback=%2Egde_4132340_member_257368745

    Up to 20w excess over a week.

    • daniel maris

      Google translation:

      Japan, Cold Fusion: At the Technova excellent results were obtained using copper nickel alloy powders in nano-porous silica. It took 11 months from design to construction and startup of the first experiments. The heat measurement was performed using a flow calorimeter oil particularly reliable. The principle of calorimeters flow is very simple: is passed a stream of water or oil in a tube in close contact with the heat source, and measure the difference in temperature at the entrance and the exit of the tube. The temperature difference multiplied by the flow and the heat capacity of the fluid (water or oil) allows to estimate with good accuracy the thermal power generated. For one week, were observed up to 20W of thermal power in excess considering as a reference system containing inert alumina. The nanoparticles used had a nickel content of about 4 grams. It is therefore a result very convincing and encouraging. The reaction chamber is a stainless steel cylinder, with an internal volume of half a liter, externally heated and thermally insulated with the outside. The cooling tube is a spiral in which oil passes regoltata with a flow rate of 20cc/min. It ‘important to remember that constantan (copper-nickel alloy) in the form of wires has already been successfully used in the experiments of Francesco Celani INFN (National Institute for Nuclear Physics). These experiments were also replicated in laborati Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project and ST-Microelectronics by Ubaldo Mastromatteo. More details will be submitted to Congress ICCF18 (18th International Conference on Cold Fusion) in a poster titled: “A Mass-Flow-Calorimetry System for Scaled-up Experiments on Anomalous Heat Evolution at Elevated Temperatures.”

      The authors of the poster are A. Kitamura, A. Takahashi, R. Seto, Y. Fujita, A. Taniike and Y. Furuyama.
      – See more at:

  • GreenWin

    From D. Passerini – LENR Conference at Sapienza University of Rome July 15th, with Celani, Widom, Srivastava, etc. Interestingly Dr. Celani will briefly comment on results from Dr. Rossi’s E-Cat as verified by the international team of scientists, Levi-Essen et al.

    More E-Cat verification news in academia. Link to program and abstracts recreated by Passi after official link hacked.

    http://bit.ly/158zF3H

  • Chadow

    Has anyone spoke about isolating the e-cat for the 6 month test. Perhaps using a solar panel array and inverter set-up. This way all power produced by the sun and introduced into a battery (with no charge at the start) bank can be accounted for over a long duration.

    As the test continues, the excess power output would become obvious as the solar panels continued a 24 hour sign wave related to the sun and the e-cat continued excess heat day-in and day-out would show a total power output curve to the nth power over 6 months.

    Sorry, not an engineer. But a straight line graph and one with an exponential curve would seem to develop obviously.

    • Roger Bird

      It would not work very well at night. But something akin to this has been proposed, like rechargeable batteries that would be recharged by the process itself. This would have no connection with the grid.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I think we need to test some dreamliner batteries

    http://www.zerohedge.com/node/476343

  • kasom

    on JONP A.R. Comment are back to his “standard ital-english” (indipendend is italian, independent is english) exept of some boiler plate textmodules which he repeats on and on, maybe the secretary was just a probationer for a few days……….

  • http://www.drboblog.com Dr Bob

    Hi Friends,

    Its me, again!

    A friend from Planetary Resources posted this link on Facebook.
    What do you think about it?

    http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Electrolysis_Water_Arc_and_Dielectric_Breakdown/Graneau%20e.a.%20-%20Arc-liberated%20chemical%20energy%20exceeds%20electrical%20input%20energy%20-%202000.pdf

    Peace Everybody

    • Roger Bird

      I am not scientist enough to judge the truth of the report. I am philosopher enough to consider the possibility that it is true. I am naughty enough to be delighted that we have another scientific controversy and perhaps a lot of cognitive dissonance for smug scientists. (:->)

    • Tom59

      From the description, seems not related to LENR, but who knows today. The paper shows that literature is full of phenomena which are pushed aside because no explanation. But those cases in particular may lead to new insight and progress. So thanks to the LENR researchers for sticking to cold fusion so long and preparing the field! The expected success in LENR will encorage science to question established knowledge in any field and dig deeper into weird observations.

      • Vectoraddict

        4sure

        • Preston

          There is some talk about the Defkalion reactor using a plasma, might be a similar principle.

    • Roger Bird

      Here is something that relates:

      http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2013/jul/10/japanese-team-sees-gamma-ray-pulse-before-lightning-flash

      I have heard of this before, but this is better.

    • Mike Cheek

      Well, that is quite an unusual phenomena. Quite amazing. Thanks for sharing.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    What happened to Georgehants? Is he off the grid or something? He used to post here quite a lot and I did enjoy quite a lot of his posts.

    Same goes for Robert Mockhan (was that his name?); are there any signs of him?

    • daniel maris

      Wasn’t Robert the one being followed? (LOL – or maybe not)

      • Andrew Macleod

        I think your right.

    • NT

      George and Robert were amongst my favorite commentators. I think that something very bad happened to Robert as he was on the trail of something? – who knows? I do miss his very involved theories and science explanations…

      George was always a good poster and researcher, but controversial at times, which in my estimation is just fine. I believe he just got disgusted with his adversaries here and left – which is very sad. Please come back George, we love you even though sometimes it gets tough around here at times!

      • freethinker

        I am also worried about Robert, as he has literally disappeared from internet. He was a frequent commenter at Max Kaiser as well, and I believe his last traces end there. He has not been heard from in some 9 months. Search the net for “Robert Mockan” and see.

        About George I believe you are right, but I recall seeing some comment a short while back at coldfusionnow, http://coldfusionnow.org/stanley-pons-preface-from-j-p-biberians-la-fusion-dans-tous-ses-etats-translated/.

        I also miss him here. Often digging out new stuff, and being colourful in the comments, looking to take on any debate where the EVIDENCE and TRUTH plays major role.

        Said it before, saying it again: Would be nice seeing you here again George, don’t be a stranger.

        • Dods

          Here Here.
          I liked the fact that he would dig up stuff about the quantum world and share it here. A very enthusiastic fellow in all areas. I bet an interesting person to meet.

          So George give us a poke.

          • georgehants

            Thank you gentlemen, I do not shy away from trying to find the correct answer on any subject.
            In the case of Cold Fusion and many other subjects the fault lies totally and completely with science, that as with many other areas of society, it has fallen into a state of almost unbelievable corruption and ineptitude.
            On this Website as others a battle needed to be fought to protect Mr. Rossi and the path of Cold Fusion to its fair conclusion of reality or error, that point has been achieved and although understandable in this goalless World, I find no point in continually discussing where Mr. Rossi’s latest fart comes on the Richter scale.
            The fault of 24 years of life damaging delay with Cold Fusion is 100% the result of most of the scientific community becoming tame yes-men, believing that a qualification proves that they have intelligence or a right to an opinion on a subject, Science, where there is no place for opinion in almost all cases, just do the Bloody Research with the only goal, without exception being to find the Truth and remove anybody that interferes with that goal.
            If any other agency, such as politicians have been interfering in the Cold Fusion debacle then it is sciences responsibility to inform the public of such corruption.
            I had hoped that this Website would over time turn to exposing the corruption and incompetence of many areas of science that are equally affected as Cold Fusion but it would seem that it wishes to just cover the basic subject.
            It is not my place to interfere with that choice but there are, more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio.
            Still read some of the “good” comments from the usual contributers but if one looks below at the “horrific” Ha, off topic post on UFO’s one will see that the same dead-brained responses are raised as with Cold Fusion, etc.
            Best wishes.
            http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/more_rossis_ecat_ericsson_and_pomp_rebut_independent_test-116259

            • AlainCo

              right. problem is science as a community of people who don’t have flesh in the game.

              businesses are the solution, not the problem.

            • Warthog

              Bravo!

              And yet there were a sufficiently large number of true truth-seekers to keep the tech alive until the time came that it would be accepted. Storms, McKubre, Rothwell, Arata, Piantelli, Focardi, Celani and many, many more.

              Hell, even Steve Krivit, though he seems to have gone off the deep end of late.

              “Illegitimi non carborundum” :^)

              • georgehants

                Warthog, do you not agree that there should be no need for a few “truth-seekers” to keep Cold Fusion or any other possible discoveries alive.
                People seem to accept that it is normal that science should debunk deny and corruptly delay, regardless of Evidence, everything that does not fit their reductionist religion.

            • NT

              Hi George,

              Glad to see your still in the game here. I agree with your conclusions about the dogmatic scientists and controlling politicians whom are either not capable of or paid not to think out of the box. You are correct that those who have suppressed technologies, especially cold fusion/LENR should somehow be penalized for their destructive actions.

              Have a good summer over there in England…

              • georgehants

                Thanks NT, we have a summer at last, hope yours and everybody’s is good as well.

            • GreenWin

              George, nice to see you back, fit and feisty as ever. While Dorigo (a CERN scientist) was at first impressed with the Levi-Essen validation, he has since been whipped back to the orthodox reservation. Likely under threat of termination or, as in Galileo’s day, instruments of the Inquisition. His opinion and repentance is meaningless.

              There is today a great upswell of higher consciousness that subliminally informs the public. It is not quite visible, but palpable to those sensitive to energetic change.

              Amidst the upswell is growing discontent with government and scientific secrecy. The recent Citizen Hearing on Disclosure, with solid witness testimony confirms:

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/citizen-hearing-on-disclosure-day-2_n_3184932.html

              We are not alone. There IS enough. Energy is abundant, and ubiquitous throughout the universe!

              • georgehants

                Morning GreenWin, your informative comments are appreciated.
                Good to feel the feeling that you feel.
                If mankind (science) keeps delaying that knowledge of our holistic and eternal consciousness then the suffering will continue.
                We have to inform of Evidence and Truth in many areas where science fears to tread.
                Best Wishes.

                • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

                  Hi George,

                  Glad to see you post here again. Your presence was missed!

                  Best,

                  Frank

            • fortyniner

              George – good to hear from you (even if only briefly!). Keep an eye open here – there may be significant developments quite soon I think.

              • georgehants

                Morning Peter, no more doubt about Global Warming, the whole scientific community turned up in Hants yesterday with very expensive thermometers and concluded that the hot day proves beyond any argument that the bonfires used by the Church to remove heretics and deniers have by the butterfly effect caused our climate to vary.
                The fact that the climate has always varied is deemed by the priests to not be in their “opinion” relevant.
                Best wishes, hope your old tub is making the most of the sun.

                • fortyniner

                  Some people say that all this hot weather is caused by something called ‘summer’ and they have lots of BBQs to enjoy it. But we warmists know that the abnormal warmth is actually caused by these planet wrecking deniers and their millions of CO2-spewing BBQs.

                  ‘Old tub’ – yup, just back from a short cruise in the floating skip to test the new engine cooling system (three ‘new’ pubs checked out in the process).

    • Karl

      He might have been using Microsoft for his communication! In spite of the general main stream trivialization of information collection, Guardian tells the latest story. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data#start-of-comments

      • Bob Greenyer

        Other than ordering other “Client States” to prevent a head of states diplomatic plane (could be considered an act of war) this is the most shocking revelation yet.

        The US government said anyone hacking its computers etc. would be considered to be performing an act of war and with new powers, they can drone them out of existence “legally” anywhere on earth. So, if the US/UK has basically hacked everyone – what legitimacy does that provide to other nations applying the same rights that the US administration has afforded itself?

        • pg

          It does, but I guess no one is going to exercise that right against US.

  • Roger Bird

    I received this email just 1/2 hour ago (4:00 MDT). It is most certainly time to withdraw our fangs for Robert Vancina.

    HOPE CELL TECHNOLOGI​ES ([email protected])
    Add to contacts
    3:56 PM
    [Keep this message at the top of your inbox]
    To: Roger B
    Picture of HOPE CELL TECHNOLOGIES
    Hi Roger

    Conference has nothing to do with LENR in the first place. I was invited by organizers to talk about my project in “Emerging Technologies”. So this is excellent opportunity to advocate LENR and I will do it as best as I can, without excuse.

    Kind Regards to you and your friends
    Robert

  • kwhilborn

    Ampenergo is Andrea Rossi’s American Partner.

    • Kim

      Could we have your source for
      this info.

      Respect
      Kim

      • Invy

        http://ampenergo.com/?m=201106

        This is a year old… this company doesnt appear to fit the profile of a venture capable of mass producing/setting up a factor.

        Also, according to the NH state government it is inactive.
        https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?1114558

        • kwhilborn

          What does a venture capable of creating a factory look like?

          Was this not the entire purpose of their creation.

          Years ago is not long in the business world, and we have seen no “falling out”

          I agree it may be in New Hampshire and not Ohio, but both states require HEAT and would fit the claim that heat will come from ecats.

          There was a lot of publicity surrounding the Ampenergo/Rossi deal. I think Rossi is just playing up the “New Partner” talk when he was preparing for them, and until then they were just background.

          Rossi took money from them… Apparently a lot of money.. He has a nice tan…

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Yeah, but Rossi has claimed association with Ampenergo since long before his announced new partner.

      Someone recently said that Rossi had an office near Dean Kamen’s headquarters in New Hampshire. This would fit Rossi’s claim that his partner’s CEO personally loaded an ecat. If any CEO is a hands-on CEO, it would be Dean Kamen.

      • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty

        But Dean Kamen isn’t already in the energy market. And, if I remember correctly, he said his partner has experiences and infrastructure in this market.

      • BroKeeper

        Let’s note some of the circumstantial evidence that may conclude E-Cats are manufactured in DEKA factories:

        Both Dean Kamen and Andrea Rossi are prominent inventors and entrepreneurs with similar Ideological goals.
        One press statement posts: “Coca-Cola Announces Long-Term Partnership with DEKA R&D to Help Bring Clean Water to Communities in Need”.
        This would be a “Dream Team” Partnership as AR has put it. Rossi would provide the E-Cat’s cheap energy for DEKA’s “slingshot” ‘vapor compression distillation’ and DEKA‘s Sterling Engine would generate electricity at the same time. Wouldn’t this be a win-win for all and a contribution especially towards social economic equilibrium for impoverished communities?

        Or how about E-Cat powered Segways with refills every 10,000 miles? 🙂
        Also, is it just a coincident that AR’s USA Patent Attorney is a couple of blocks away from DEKA?
        Could “USA Concern” be a new division of DEKA (why the capital “C” in concern)?

        • BroKeeper

          OK. Sorry for the duplicate to Bernie Koppenhofer reply on July 12, 2013 at 3:56 am. I thought it didn’t talke. (still a young grasshopper to all this)

        • TPaign

          Bingo!

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Iggy Dalrymple
        May 26th, 2012 at 8:42 PM
        Dear Dr Rossi,

        Do you still have a relationship with AmpEnergo?

        Sincerely,
        Iggy Dalrymple
        ~~~~~
        Andrea Rossi
        May 27th, 2012 at 3:27 AM
        Dear Iggy Dalrymple:
        Yes, of course.
        You can contact them at:
        [email protected]
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        I think AmpEnergo may be in the loop but I doubt that they are
        THE partner, but they may be.

        • fortyniner

          The link AR gives is to the Leonardo website (obviously) so presumably ‘AmpEnergo’ (if it really exists at all in any meaningful way) is currently just an internal subset of LTI. LTI in turn sell themselves as energy industry planning consultants and claim connections with the US DoD and DoE, but have no manufacturing facilities, no R&D, no China connection etc., so I agree that they are very unlikely to be THE partner. I hope not, anyway, or many of us have been labouring under some very false impressions.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            fortyniner, do you know what’s become of GeorgeHants?

            • fortyniner

              Iggy – sorry, but I don’t know any more than you. George is still posting elsewhere (mostly on coldfusionnow) but seemed to become suddenly irritated by the tenor of comments on this blog.

            • GreenWin

              See George’s comment above (my reply in mod.)

  • Kim

    Did not Defkalion say that they would
    have a public demonstration in August?

    I’m quite sure that this was published.

    Respect
    Kim

    • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty

      They planned a demo at ICCF-18 and NIWeek 2013!

      • Kim

        Either 5hit or get off the pot!

        Thanks for the info, I was not
        aware.

        Respect
        Kim

        • fortyniner

          Thanks Kim – I was enjoying my breakfast until I read your post.

      • Lukedc

        Defkalion are on track for their R5 reactor demo at NIWeek.
        As I stated a month or so ago, be prepared for a product announcement from a Defkalion R&D partner before the end of the year.

        • Kim

          Thanks for the info
          I lost track of
          Defkalion.

          Respect
          Kim

        • winebuff

          Is there inside info u have that we are not privy? They have said they were going to do
          Similar thing in the past time to put up or shut up.

  • Omega Z

    Sandy made a joke. Maybe?

    Rossi did say that Frank was on a list of those who may receive an invitation to see the E-cat in operation. If & When the Partner was ready. 🙂

    • Deleo77

      Why not let Frank see it? Rossi can have him sign an NDA and he can come back and post that he saw it, and that it is real, and what Rossi is saying is true. He can do that without having to provide any specifics and people here would trust his word.

      • Bruce Williams

        I fully support this proposal.

  • Dickyaesta

    Snowden reveals backnoise of UFO’s. Sorry to barge in with this news item: http://www.chronicle.su/news/snowden-reveals-ufo-documents-after-receiving-asylum-in-venezuela/ I think is relevant as sometimes UFO discussions flare up in Ecat-World. According to “The Internet Chronicle” — Venezuelan Asylum Achieved, Snowden reveals UFO Documents to give more credence for his Asylum. I leave this as is. I always believed there was more under the sun then governments want to say, why could there be no civilizations more advanced than ours as many parts of our civilization seem to be very backward in both technology as in social interactions to name a few.

    • Dickyaesta

      I stumbled upon this in: http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com.es/
      Arclein has sometimes interesting ítems. His reports on reverse engineering UFO’s I found extremely interesting and worth to look into.http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com.es/search?q=reverse+engineering+UFO

      • Roger Bird

        Are you trying to discredit the bunch of us?

    • Stew

      “The Internet Chronicle” is a satirical fun site. Not to be taken seriously.

      • Dickyaesta

        Going back to sleep then, there seems to be no fun left. Only marching on into oblivion. No imagination, Rossi is sure a fraud 😉 , Ufo’s do not exist because only reported by satyrical fun sites. A bit out of the box thinking is forbidden https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3195048/leo-cullum-never-ever-think-outside-the-box-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg , it doesn’t pay for the bread on the table, we called it doomthinking 20 years ago now it has surfaced once again, because we live in hard times don’t we! Sorry Stew this was meant in general

        • NT

          +1

        • Dr Bob

          Dickyaesta, I would like to claim that UFO:s is pretty much proved beyond a doubt.

          A “unidentified flying object” can be ex a satellite, asteroid, airplane or a bird to take some examples.

          • b4FreeEnergy

            Yes sure, that’s true, a big precentage of them are just that but it’s the much smaller percentage that are not which are really interesting but what always puzzles me is that there is not even ‘one’ crystal clear, zillion pixels picture to be found on the entire internet … Or I did not search hard enough!

            • Dickyaesta

              I agree with you. But then if they are in a transient state? They are said to move in an anti gravity state and who knows the image gets blurred by this vibrational movement due to this gravitational state. And when they settle down next to you, one might be a bit intimidated to take pictures although with smart phones might just do the trick, Nokia has now a 44mp camera in his last phone.

              But my point is: “Why not accept their existence” and then try to reverse engineer them, from what we know about them. How can we achieve anti-gravity and that seems to be directly linked to a better understanding of the science behind LENR etc., because how doesn’t an atom and its electrons not implode onto itself and how can it maintain its ‘course’, how can LENR pass by physics laws, where Hot fusion seem not to.

              As above as below so what applies in the small applies in the big!!!! If you would sit on a atom you would conceive the body of which this atom is part of as your universe, like we conceive the stars as our universe, but we cannot detect a body (universe) moving along with our universe it is too far away, maybe also vibrates differently and both have their own ‘gravity’, or if you like identity, whereby the atoms in your body no all go their own way nd say bye-bye to you. If we do understand the laws behind this concept, we can travel inter-dimensional, with anti gravity and produce energy from a metal, without having to cross our fingers it will happen the next time as well! But we have hardly left base trying to prove or disprove UFO’s exist, which to me seem to be a futile business.
              And I too miss Robert Mockan and GeorgeHants as the indipendent thinkers the are we need a lot of them to solve the many problems we have in this world!

              • b4FreeEnergy

                Who says they didn’t do exactly that? Roswell happened in 1947, close to seventy years ago! They had quite some time to take apart and reverse engineer the dish they captured and they will not come up with a nice report about their findings for us to read. If mass-media do not even cover LENR, they will certainly not cover a ‘serious’ story about UFO’s.
                So do I believe there were UFO’s on earth with intelligent beings on board, yes, did we humans capture one or more of those dishes, most probably yes. Did they reverse-engineer it? You bet they did!
                Will we get the results? NO! Can I prove any of this? NO. And so it continues … (Read the reports of Stanton Friedman, he did some serious investigations)

                • Iggy Dalrymple

                  “Did they reverse-engineer it? You bet they did!”

                  Colonel Corso certainly claimed they reverse engineered it.

          • Roger Bird

            There is a big difference between UFO and LENR. Since UFOs have been supposedly around for 66 years or more, they have had exactly zero real impact on my life, sort of like hot-fusion. So, even if they exist, they don’t seem very practical to me. OTOH, LENR will almost certainly be a big benefit to me, even at my age of 67.

    • fortyniner

      OK, since the subject has arisen spontaneously, and this is an open thread, I can’t resist posting the link below (I’ve been waiting for an excuse):

      http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/03/alien-creature-swims-past-international-space-station-what-is-this-critter-caught-on-video-in-space-2594386.html

      Various organisms occupy every conceivable environment provided by the planet – could that include near space?

      • fortyniner
        • Thinks4Self

          A bunch of martian equivalents to the Devil’s Tower in Wyoming or many of the rock formations in Utah. Caused by molten rock being forced up into softer rock like sandstone. Then having the softer rock weather away. Likely adds to the case that Mars once had liquid water.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          There’s also the 100s of UFOs congregating around the 1996 space tether.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjCmQ5-p8ag

          • fortyniner

            Yes – many of those look more like life-forms than machines.

      • Thinks4Self

        Small out of focus fly on the window. Either an escapee from an experiment or hitch hiker on someone’s clothes or personal gear.

      • Roger Bird

        I know that this is deductive, but it seems pretty solid to me: Every living thing needs water. In outer space, water is evaporated before you can say “Neil Armstrong”. End of case.

    • Dickyaesta

      I am back I was a bit freaked out, when my portable squeaked when I closed the top like my microphone was activated. Never happened before but when I mentioned this spy who came in from the cold and those rare things going on in the air, it squeaked, like when you short circuit a microphone.
      I am a 64 year old man, a bit naïve maybe, lived a bit in a protected cocoon and was very surprised to hear our bankers no use firewalls anymore between investment banking and corporate clients in other words, if the corporate client indicates a problem might start. Securely the next day or one hour later, he is full into defending his company before a full house of the financial press.

      This sort of thing happens to other people I thought. But thinking a so unimportant message of mine already creates such reactions I am wondering if we are really free. And I am everyday more sympathizing with the spy who came in from the cold. I keep on seeing the image in the film Independence Day where both Will Smith and other actor, whose name I keep on forgetting, are in their spaceship connected to the main ship, with the horrible creature with the long fingers looking on and when they did something that caught his attention and the creature touched with one horrific long finger the icon of their spaceship on a screen to activate it and see what they were doing, fortunately they did escape, although in real life I don’t know.

      Hello George I am glad you are back a bit you are right on the one hand, but if a thing like this happens on a so insignificant post of mine you can change the world the same here as somewhere else, only you have to speak to them directly, knowing full well they are listening. Thanks all for the extra info about the topic, I don’t doubt THEY have reverse engineered the thing, but I would like mankind to use their collective minds to reverse engineer it and that was the main reason of my post. See I did avoid all words of activation for their long horrific fingers but then again surely I am on a list now. What a feast!! I am talking about reverse engineering UFO’s, it should not be that difficult once you pass the state of mind of having to prove or disprove they do exist. I am not an engineer but I can scan read scientific papers and there is a lot of knowledge out there which should be enough for a real engineer once he makes the jump like we did to believe and encourage Dr. Andrea Rossi. But I do not like however the bit sweaty web pages about UFO’s crammed with so much info one doesn’t know where to click, does anyone knows about a blog like ECW but then about these amiable or not so amiable ships that circle around us all day and every day, or don’t you believe it yet?

  • GreenWin

    A TRAIN WRECK AVOIDED?

    Since this is an open thread it seems a good place to take an arm’s length look at non-specific changes in the overall energy picture. I shall focus on recent disruption in the U.S. utility industry as the volume and caliber of movement there indicates much happening offstage.

    Starting back at the end of April, Princeton University (home of PPPL, world’s first hot fusion project) hosted an unprecedented meeting of more than 30 high-level executives, regulators and academic experts in the energy industry. The purpose was to discuss the rapid emergence of “distributed” (Distributed Energy Resources) energy systems such as small-scale generators, solar installations and other technologies that are not administered centrally.

    https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S36/75/21C50/

    Citing commentary by an analyst who warned of a potential “train wreck” in the industry, Jon Wellinghoff, Chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, said “We have a monumental challenge.” Converging trends and technological advances are allowing consumers and companies to take matters of reliability, security and efficiency into their own hands, while utility companies are under pressure to maintain and upgrade a national electricity system.

    A week later President Obama met privately with these and other utility executives to discuss rapid changes in utility demands – especially to address security and weather-related blackouts. Three weeks later the May 20 Essen-Levi Report on E-Cat HT went public on the Arxiv server. Despite the flustered, biased “critique” by two professors – there is no evidence that the E-Cat Report does not document a paradigm change in low cost, clean, abundant energy production.

    President Obama’s nominee to replace the Chair of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, Ronald Binz, recently made a keynote speech titled “Utility Sector Disruptive Changes.” An analysis of that speech by Eric Justian suggests, “Already weakened by lower demand growth and shrinking access to credit, utilities are seeing a rise in “distributed generation” sources, like rooftop solar installations, which are increasingly bypassing utilities altogether. “ http://www.triplepundit.com/2013/06/four-disruptive-forces-threatening-american-utilities/

    Does all this add up to anything significant with respect to LENR? Maybe not. But there IS unprecedented executive action at the highest levels of the U.S. utility industry. Which can be positively interpreted to mean the “PTB” are aware of the disruptive changes coming, and instead of opposing them wholesale, are working on ways to accommodate the transition. The Princeton conference in particular focused on ways to keep electric rates from soaring as customers disengage from the grid. That’s good. These are the concerns of a pragmatic industry working to resolve complex issues before they cause the “train wreck.”

    And, as if to support the transition from the green perspective, more environmental groups are openly carrying the torch for Distributed Energy.
    “ Just as utilities are quickly retooling their asset portfolio to align with greater use of natural gas, they need to retool their resource planning to better align with DER. “

    http://blog.cleanenergy.org/2013/06/03/utilities-and-the-distributed-energy-paradigm-shift/#sthash.cs4o7sWz.dpuf

    • Kim

      Very Good and fair estimate of the
      corporate energy environment. Thanks

      Respect
      Kim

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      GreenWin…..good post, thanks.

      • psi

        +1

    • Steve H

      An excellent, balanced piece of information.
      Well done – this is exactly the reason why I regularly check this site.

    • Hal

      The US energy industry is in a mess..some months ago I read an article which was pointing out that for peak demand times it is actually cheaper to run a diesel genset for the aircon than buying it from the grid (California). No wonder they are installing solar, wind, etc. and destabilising the grid. Only Gas powered power stations can handle the enormous fluctuations in load (Coal can too to a lesser extent).
      Here in the UK they appear to be proposing to build 30 new gas fired power stations to handle the fluctuation. Taking the fact they will still need to be staffed etc even though not productive, on a sunny/windy day they will probably be running at 30% of their potential efficiency

    • fortyniner

      The UK usually follows the US lead, but there is no sign of any similar concerns here, as Hal says above. Quite the reverse – Cameron and his cronies are now so desperate to get a new nuclear folly at Hinkley Point in Somerset stitched up before they go, that the UK govt has offered a £10 billion ‘loan’ to the contractor to underwrite the estimated £14B cost of the power station.

      The taxpayer will of course lose the money if EDF defaults or uses financial subterfuge to avoid repayment – but of course Cameron et al. will be gone from UK politics by then, and no doubt enjoying the usual fairly lavish lifestyle that often seems to follow a short period in high political office.

      • GreenWin

        It is a bit like purchasing a mule train instead of planning for the arrival of the iron horse. While seemingly asinine, the PM will be saluting a grateful nation:

        http://bit.ly/1duSsJp

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Ok, I am confused. Svein Utne asked Rossi the question “On July 5th you confirmed that you are working full time for the “USA Concern”. Is this the USA Partner and world Licensee for the manufacturing of the E-cat?” Rossi answered, “yes”. Does this mean all the Swedish, Italian and other licensees are void? Or the US partner has the right to manufacture and the others still have the exclusive right to sell in their territories? If it is the latter is it fair to assume the US partner is the DEKA organization?………….. PS Good work TPaign, glhf, Roger Bird.

    • BroKeeper

      DEKA was a microdispensing contractor for the development of Coca Cola Freestylea touch screen soda fountain. Hmmmmm…wasn’t the celebration of the first manufactured E-Cat with Coca Cola?

      • BroKeeper

        DEKA Research & Development Corporation is a company based in New Hampshire. One of their products is the Sterling Engine. Coincidents?

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          But why then, would Rossi ask for for Sterling engines to mate with his E-Cat?

          • BroKeeper

            Bernie,

            You may be correct about AR looking elsewhere than DEKA’s Sterling Engines. However let’s note some of the circumstantial evidence that may conclude E-Cats are manufactured in DEKA factories:

            Both Dean Kamen and Andrea Rossi are prominent inventors and entrepreneurs with similar Ideological goals.
            One press statement posts: “Coca-Cola Announces Long-Term Partnership with DEKA R&D to Help Bring Clean Water to Communities in Need”.
            This would be a “Dream Team” Partnership as AR has put it. Rossi would provide the E-Cat’s cheap energy for DEKA’s “slingshot” ‘vapor compression distillation’ and DEKA‘s Sterling Engine would generate electricity at the same time. Wouldn’t this be a win-win for all and a contribution especially towards social economic equilibrium for impoverished communities?

            Or how about E-Cat powered Segways with refills every 10,000 miles? 🙂

            Also, is it just a coincident that AR’s USA Patent Attorney is a couple of blocks away from DEKA?
            Could “USA Concern” be a new division of DEKA (why the capital “C” in concern)?
            – Just saying. Perhaps nothing else should be said to respect Rossi’s wishes.

  • Christina

    Have fun, Mr. Acland.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Have a great vacation, Frank

    • Curbina

      +2

  • Sandy

    Mr. Acland claims that he is “on vacation” but he is really on a secret mission; visiting the manufacturing plant that will soon be selling E-Cats by the thousands. He is getting the inside scoop on that plant and he will publish that scoop on this blog and we will be the first ones to “read all about it!” (I hope).

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      +1

    • psi

      + 1.

  • AstralProjectee

    Take a guess here. When do you think Rossi will start selling e-cats or e-cat plants to the mainstream? I am sure some of you have thought about this more than me.

    • AstralProjectee

      I can’t believe nobody has replied yet.

      • winebuff

        Rossi will not be first.

    • John-64

      5-10 years from now.

    • Roger Bird

      5 – 10 years

      • AstralProjectee

        Really, I thought it would have been sooner. Well perhaps I should lower my time frame expectations some.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Maybe never because someone else may beat him to the punch.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Iggy says –

    “I hear hoofbeats from a dark horse.”

    • Roger Bird

      The End of the World of pollution, expensive and centralized energy is nigh.

    • Roger Bird

      The Old Age is passing away. The New Age is dawning.

      • Wes

        “The New Age is dawning,” said machine one to machine two, “organic pollution has been eradicated.”

    • Mike Cheek

      Would you mind expanding a bit on your quotation. I suppose you mean the dark horse is the e-cat? Dark horse means something bad to me. I guess you mean for some people this possible technological disruption will be regarded as bad? I don’t mean to be too analytical, just curious. Thanks. – Mike

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        By “Dark Horse” I mean a new unknown contender, a good one.
        Sorry, can’t give further details. Hate to tease, but couldn’t resist.

        • MikeP

          Dark horse for what race? E-Cat partner for electricity? A new competitor for the E-Cat? A new version of the E-Cat? A new theory about what might be happening to cause anomalous heat? Other? A new catalyst? More efficient compounds to use?

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Something weird just happened. Since I posted my “Dark Horse” post, all my emails to the inventor, have disappeared from my gmail archives.

            Do you think I’ve been hacked?

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            A spinoff invention from ideas discussed here and similar forums.

        • DustyBins

          Are you pulling a “Rossi” or just having summer fun teasing us with a prelude regarding “something special this way comes”?

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            I’ve said too much.

            • Pedro

              Hi Iggy, you started this, so please answer one more question… how long until we will know more about this? Weeks,,, months… years?

              • Iggy Dalrymple

                months

                • Pedro

                  OK, thanks!

                • Iggy Dalrymple

                  I tried to talk the inventor into slowing down and limiting his initial production to the industrial market(like Rossi) so he can raise sufficient capital to finance mass cheap production to fend off copy-cats, but he says that would be too slow. He says he only wants to earn a working man’s wage. This guy is a true humanitarian. Pray for his success. He hopes to be powering his home before the year’s over.

                • Pedro

                  Powering or heating?

                • Iggy Dalrymple

                  He’s pretty confident he can tweak the device to produce electric power directly. No engine or turbine required.

                • Pedro

                  Great! Please keep us posted.

            • Fibb

              Go Iggy Go!

  • daniel maris

    General observation – although we are in the holiday period there seems to be a lot going on.

    The Finnish Patent story is a quite unexpected (for me) development and very interesting as it seems strongly credible.

  • SammyM

    There has been much speculation on the identity of Rossi’s partner. On JONP Rossi mentioned a few days ago that he was ‘the chief scientist of the USA Concern’. Today Rossi gives us another hint. Svein asks him a direct question:

    ‘Svein Utne
    July 11th, 2013 at 1:32 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    On July 5th you confirmed that you are working full time for the “USA Concern”. Is this the
    USA Partner and world Licensee for the manufacturing of the E-cat?
    Is this really the same non profit organization with this web page http://www.concernusa.org
    Regards
    Svein’

    Rossi’s response was:

    ‘Andrea Rossi
    July 11th, 2013 at 6:53 AM
    Svein Utne:
    1- yes
    2- no
    I am extremely engafed now here because our technological development requires a long process, involving many changes as the technology moves forward. E-Cat is undergoing that process now.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.’

    Ok. So now he has confirmed that his partner is ‘USA Concern’. Is there a US company by that name? It all seems kind a strange that he would give out this kind of information. Rossi has mentioned in the past that he would not reveal the name of his partner without their approval. The reason he gives is that once his partner is revealed they will be inundated with phone calls. They would like to work in peace, at least for now.
    Anyway, what do you guys make of this?

    • SammyM

      Maybe I’m reading too much into this. It may simply be one of Rossi’s bad translation. He may be simply trying to say that his main ‘concern’ now (all his time) is spent with his US partner … or maybe not.

      • RAJ

        Definition of concern: “Concern: a business; a firm”. USA he uses as an adjective. Thus, he is confirming that his partner is an American company, but not the bizarre candidate Svein asks him about, of course.

        • SammyM

          Looked up the definition of ‘concern’. One of the answers I got was:
          ‘- A business establishment or enterprise; a firm.’

          I see. Rossi is simply saying he’s chief scientist for the ‘USA Concern’ or in other words a USA based business. He is not revealing the name of his partner.

          Thanks RAJ for clearing that up.

        • Thinks4Self

          English the only language that hates to add new words so much that we reuse them for absolutely unrelated things.

          • Omega Z

            The English language is the most expansive @ descriptive language in the world. Maybe to much so.
            Over 500,000 Unique words @ thousands more added each year. The Average person will use approximately 60K of these words in their lifetime. No doubt many of them sparingly.

            The meaning/definition of some words such as “concern” may be determined by the context of the statement.

            Note that many languages use the same word & it’s meaning is determined only by a prefix or suffix & in many cases, the inclination or declination in vocal tone plus it’s determination in the context of the statement.

            Note the fact that there are 4 primary language structures, The order of positioning of verbs, nouns, Etc and the tendency for even a native speaker to mangle their native language & it’s amazing that Google Translate or others work at all.

            True Clarity of language will probably only happen when we devise technology that allows cranial thought transfer & bypass the spoken language.

            • Thinks4Self

              It was meant as a joke. How many other languages can you create such fun and hard to understand sentences such as:

              He didn’t have the drive to drive to the drive.

              They couldn’t find a place to park at the park so that they could park.

              Why did she ride him about his thoughts on his ride of the ride?

              I don’t blame non-native speakers for having issues communicating in our language.

              • Iggy Dalrymple

                She had freckles on her but I love her just the same.

        • Pedro

          A concern is usually a very large company with many diversified businesses, like GE or Siemens.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            “But that’s no concern of mine.” – Warren Buffett

            Could mean, “That’s one I ain’t bought yet.” or “I don’t give a damn.”

    • Pyrion

      He just wrote “concern” meaning “big company”. English is his second language (same for me btw.)

    • Roger Bird

      I did not read his missive that he worked for a company whose label is “USA Concern”.

      • SammyM

        On July 5th Rossi answering a question to Michel on JONP wrote:

        ‘Andrea Rossi
        July 5th, 2013 at 7:54 AM

        Michel:
        R&D involves our technology in all its aspects, and all the tests we are making are at the base of the evolution of all our present and future line of production. As the chief scientist of the USA Concern, this is my main duty.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.’

        ‘Svein Utne
        July 5th, 2013 at 8:46 AM
        Dear Andrea Rossi,
        Are you working for the “USA Concern”?
        Regares
        Svein Utne’

        Rossi’s answer was:

        ‘Andrea Rossi
        July 5th, 2013 at 11:24 AM
        Svein Utne:
        Yes, full time now.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.’

        This is the the way he phrased it. Had me, and a few others, a little confused. Anyway it’s clear now what he meant. I’ve never seen the word ‘concern’ used in that context before.

        • Dickyaesta

          In Europe the word concern is used by older generation with respect in the voice for the American accomplishment of a concern like General Motors and others.

    • Visitor

      When thousands of e-cat will be released for sell in one-shot, the noise it will make will be the one which will drop sharply the oil price. Look for the ones whom run short on oil with big money.

    • Sanjeev

      Svein Utne is clearly a non-English speaker. As others have said, it only meant an US co. Anyway, I don’t see any logic in asking him the names again and again, when he clearly said it will be a private affair till they are ready.
      I think its time to stop troubling them and let them work. If there is a real co manufacturing real Ecats, it will come out soon.

  • Giuliano Bettini

    I cannot avoid to note that what seemed “ready for sale”, now appears (more and more…) in the R&D phase.
    Something has changed.

    Andrea Rossi
    July 11th, 2013 at 6:53 AM
    (…) I am extremely engafed now here because our technological development requires a long process, involving many changes as the technology moves forward. E-Cat is undergoing that process now.

    Andrea Rossi
    July 11th, 2013 at 6:50 AM
    (…) As this technology is still also in the phase of R&D and undergoing rigorous review, we will continue the testing process to determine the potential and uses of the same.

    Michel
    July 5th, 2013 at 5:35 AM
    Dear Dr Rossi,
    You said E-cat is still in a phase of R&D: do you mean 10kW domestic E-cat?
    If yes, i understand certification is not the only reason for the postponement of large-scale manufacturing?
    Answer.
    Michel:
    R&D involves our technology in all its aspects, and all the tests we are making are at the base of the evolution of all our present and future line of production. As the chief scientist of the USA Concern, this is my main duty.

    Fortunately, everyone has now his own LENR device.
    Takahashi, Defkalion, Etiam, US Navy…..
    This guy Andrea Rossi has been useful. 🙂

  • clovis

    Hi, frank.
    Glad to hear you are on vacation, you deserve a break, have fun, and try to relax, and enjoy yourself. ECW is doing just fine, we have lots of incredible posters, not just a bunch of na sayers, i love to come here and I always find the latest news about e-cat,along with some great commentary,we have such a intelligent group. thanks guys for making this place the most informed site, on lenr, and the e-cat.

    • Gerrit

      +1

    • Roger Bird

      I can honestly say that if it weren’t for Frank and e-catworld.com, I probably would not be quite so focused on LENR, because otherwise I would have to deal with infected forums crawling with skeptopaths. I would be looking in on http://ecatnews.com/ every now and then to see if there was any new news, but I would not be reading the http://ecatnews.com/ forum since I might accidentally read some skeptopath’s comment and then have to take a shower. My day would be much less interesting, and I would be much less informed about LENR.

      • Steve G

        ecat news or Paul Storys site turned out to be a sham, skeptic hang out.

    • psi

      +1

  • Jeff Clark

    Will you leave us the keys to the liquor cabinet while you are away?

    • Roger Bird

      Yeah, and take me off moderation? (:->)

  • Mikael N

    Have a nice vacation. Come back with New Energy to give us more information.

    Best Regards
    Micke Nilsson