Rossi: Work on the E-Cat ‘Continues 24/7 [Update — AR on Shifts]

Here’s Andrea Rossi responding to a question on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about when he will start selling E-Cats to public utilities.

Our USA Partner and world Licensee for the manufacturing is the sole in charge to determine the sales of energy and/or plants.
I have great hopes for the E-Cat and what it can accomplish, and I am pleased about the findings of the other Scientists who have participated in evaluating it so far.
As this technology is still in the development stage and undergoing rigorous review, I want to allow the continued process of testing that technology to determine its potential and its uses.
I am pleased with our progress to date and I will share more as our work continues 24/7 in the USA.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

This is a rather vague statement — and one you might expect from someone who wants to give a general impression without providing many details. If Rossi is no longer in charge of the business aspects of the E-Cat he will certainly not be authorized to say very much at all publicly about what is going on commercially until he has permission from his partners, and we are not at that stage yet.

24/7 work on the E-cat implies that work is taking place on a large scale. If manufacturing facilities are being prepared, and they want to start producing E-Cats asap, it is very conceivable that people could be working round the clock to get things ready.

UPDATE

Rossi added this post regarding the 24/7 post:

Andrea Rossi
July 4th, 2013 at 6:57 AM

David Linebarger:
It happens to work 24 hours straight to me, in particular situation when it is indispensable my presence for very important tests. Our Team members make normal shifts, of course, but in exceptional situations they work more than that; as a matter of fact, the 24/7 are covered by shifts.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • John Littlemist

    It is interesting to note that the Finnish technical research centre (VTT) seems to be involved in LENR somehow.

    This newsletter http://www.lenr-info.com/newsletters/30 is authored by a hot fusion researcer working for VTT.

    Recently VTT announced that they’ll drop hot fusion research from their strategy.

    • GreenWin

      The author of this letter Jukka Heikkinen does not appear to be well informed about LENR since he lists only a very few published papers and none by major players at SPAWAR, SRI, Hagelstein/MIT, ENEA, SKINR, etc. His conclusion is: “LENR is missing a verified experimental evidence even for its existence…”

      The web site lenr-info is owned by Etiam Oy in the city of Lahti, Finland. Mr. Oy has the same name (Etiam) as the company filing the patent app for the inventor. And Mr. Oy believes Steven Kirvit is Dr..

      • Roger Bird

        You know that I am a dye-in-the-wool non-paranoid, but it sounds fishy to me.

      • Seppo

        Just to clarify. Etiam Oy is just the company name (‘Etiam Ltd.’) and there is no Mr. Oy (‘Mr. Ltd’). 🙂

      • John Littlemist

        “Oy” is an abbreviation. Its english counterpart is “Ltd.”

        Oy is an abbreviation from “osakeyhtiö”, which means “limited company” or just “corporation”.

        Thus, “Etiam Oy” means “Etiam corporation” or “Etiam Ltd.”

        • GreenWin

          Thank you John and Seppo. My Finnish is vastly improved!

          • Roger Bird

            We may want to or have to learn Finnish soon, or else we will be finished. (:->)

            • CHARLES(SWVA)

              Green Win, Roger

              Green Win, if learning one word vastly improved your Finnish, it sounds like you started from the same base I did.

              Roger, you could have said “we will be Finnished”.

              I am so old that I remember reading in the local newspaper, The Southwest Times, how greatly admired the Finns were back in the 30s when they were fighting the Russians and how well the heroic Finnish Ski Troopers were doing against the Russians.

  • freethinker

    So, there is an *application*. As exciting as it is, I think I will keep my pants on just a little while longer. Maybe Mr Hody and his battle scarred commerades will have a field day tearing them apart. I mean, just look at the web site… 😉

    But maybe artefact is right, though, let us not be to quick to judge. There may be some really serious work behind it.

  • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty
    • artefact

      yes… on vortex two minutes ago 😉

      Maybe it is the hotcat patent? It was filed in November when the 3rd party test was started.

      mhh: “Regarding commercial products, the customer receives the replacement reaction container 350 pre- filled with the required reaction material, and the pressurization of the replacement reaction container 350 with hydrogen-containing gas is preferably done after attaching the filled replacement reaction container 350 to the heat generating system”

      • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty

        Maybe!
        Does anyone know Pekka Soininen? He’s mentioned as the invetor…

      • GreenWin

        Looks like a Blacklight Power follower. Their abstract is based on metal hydride destabilized Rydberg and “inverted Rydberg matter.”

    • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty

      It seems the patent was filed by this company:

      http://etiam.fi/

      Etiam has secured funding from Foundation for Finnish Inventions to design and manufacture reactor systems for LENR applications.

      • artefact

        good find.

        The website was created on 11.10.2009

      • Steve M

        This looks like a phony company that was set up to “File Patents” just to come back and sue legitimate companies for infringements that cost more to defend than to pay them off,
        *** Rossi should be alert of these very real scams.

        http://etiam.fi/

        • artefact

          You are quick to judge

          • Roger Bird

            I thought so, also.

          • Steve M

            not Judging anyone, this is what happens in the real world, patent infringement is Big Business for Lawyers that know the game.

      • cx

        who is the Foundation for Finnish Inventions

    • artefact

      “EXAMPLE 2 [0264] … The COP was over 10 ”

      “EXAMPLE 10 [0358] In case the released energy, about 180 000 kWh, is utilized in an electric generator based on e.g. Rankine cycle that has about 30 % efficiency at relatively low fluid temperatures (e.g. 400 °C), 54000 kWh of electric energy is produced. Assuming that an electric car travelling at 80 km / h consumes about 20 kWh / 100 km, the amount of electric energy produced from almost 48 g of titanium and slightly over 1 g of hydrogen is enough for driving that electric car for 270000 kilometers. Estimating that up to 10 % of the electricity (COP =10) is used for operating the fusion system, about 240000 km driving distance is still feasible with the single fuel cartridge. “

      • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty

        WOW, if this is real…OMG! 😀

        • artefact

          6 times around the earth with ~48g of ti and 1g of h. Better take some books and some work with you.

          • Warthog

            Note the very interesting use of TITANIUM rather than nickel or platinum. Titanium is one of the metals that soaks up hydrogen like a sponge. Looks like Rossi may have a serious competitor who can bypass his technology and any patents he may be successful in getting.

            • GreenWin

              You mean Mr. Etiam Oy?? Very doubtful.

    • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty

      @Frank: maybe this is worth to create a new post?

      Or contact the company to get more information? Would be nice to see them at ICCF-18

    • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty

      From Vortex:

      The inventor on the patent, Pekka Soininen, has been on patents for a number of companies, including Nokia.

      Another company he’s worked for is Beneq Oy, which is a company specializing in thin films/atomic-layer-deposition/nanotech and microclusters… that’s a good start!

      It seems like Pekka Soininen is a well known person…

      • Steve M

        Pekka Soininen is an unknown – This looks like a phony company that was set up to “File Patents” just to come back and sue legitimate companies for infringements that cost more to defend than to pay them off,
        *** Rossi should be alert of these very real scams ***

        http://etiam.fi/

        • artefact

          You are quick to judge

        • Pachu
        • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum.php barty

          Just google the name and you’ll see he is not an unknown!

          http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Pekka-Soininen/1193227127
          http://patent.ipexl.com/inventor/Pekka_Soininen_1.html

          Look at the companies he worked for! GE Energy, Nokia and many more.

          • artefact

            That should be him:
            http://fi.linkedin.com/pub/pekka-juha-soininen/16/511/68

            “Atomic Layer Deposition (ALD) technology
            Intellectual property
            Renewable energy technologies”

          • GreenWin

            Look a little more closely and Soininen is a cell phone engineer. With his name on some thin film patents. What is strange is the lenr-info. com/ website that publishes his diatribe on climate under the title “Motivation to study LENR is self-evident” – it mentions LENR once.

            Also at lenr-info is a preposterous listing of Steven Kirvit as “Dr.” This resulted in gales of laughter across the cosmos! Of course, laughter is good. 🙂

    • Stew

      This is a patent application. It should not be confused with a granted patent.

    • Jim

      [0227] 25-30

      “Some of the accelerated protons tunnel through the Coulomb barrier of the atoms of the nanoparticle and fuse with the nuclei of said atoms forming new isotopes and releasing energy.”

      • artefact

        and
        “36. The system according to any of claims 29-35, wherein the reaction material comprises dielectric material in the form of particles (1004, 1102, 1108) having a size of 10 – 10000 nm mixed with metallic material in the form of nanoparticles (1010, 1114, 1116, 1118) having a size of 0.5 – 100 nm. 37. The system according to any of claims 29-36, wherein the reaction material further comprises material promoting the formation and storage of Rydberg matter. ”

        Rossi uses NI of ~8000nm. One aditive could be nano ni of < 100nm

      • Roger Bird

        I’d say that this was pretty definitive.

    • artefact

      a different link to the patent which is better to read but the pictures are not included:
      http://www.google.com/patents/WO2013076378A2?cl=en

  • Roger Bird

    BroKeeper, when worker Sam goes to the grocery store and loads up his shopping cart with items, some of which may be necessary like milk and others not so much, and when he gets to checkout, does he tell the cashier that he worked yesterday on helping China reduce their pollution, does the cashier just let him pass through without paying with money? And when the cashier comes up short, does he tell the manager that the total includes one day of Sam working to help China not pollute so much. And when the grocery store wants to order more groceries from the distribution center, as payment do they also mention that the payment includes one day of Sam working to save the world from Chinese pollution.

    And what if John also worked to help reduce Chinese pollution, but John didn’t work as hard as Sam. Does John’s word of his work count for as much as Sam’s word of his work?

    Your idealism must be balanced with realism, and your good heart must be balanced with your head.

    • BroKeeper

      Maybe that’s the problem. The world’s realistic head needs balance with a idealistic heart? 🙂

  • Chris I

    Does he give any whiff about annual numerical productive capacity? If they are rolling them out in quantity it’s a good cue that customers are buying them. When the press conference comes out perhaps there will be even less hesitation among buyers.

    Overall, it’s a good sign.

  • GreenWin

    OT, but impressive. A hearty congratulations to all our British friends on their successful return to wind power! Not since the 11th century has England taken so decisive a step into high technology. The “London Array” 630MW of intermittent electricity built in an eco-sensitive estuary may effect wildlife, but at a savings of 925k tonnes of CO2 pollutant.

    Year 2033 London Times Classified: London Array scrap sale. 175 wind turbines auctioned to highest bidder. Serious inquires only.

    • Anthony

      “Not since the 11th century has England taken so decisive a step into high technology”

      What was that,the crossbow ? And I should think the London Array will be up for scrap long before 2033 !

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Has anyone else noticed Rossi’s recent answers on JONP have been a little strange? Is this really Rossi responding?

    • Timar

      Why do you think they have been strange?

      On July 3rd he still wrote “indipendently” – so I guess it is Rossi 😉

      • Deleo77

        This U.S. partner is the sole in charge of determining the sale of the e-cats. Rossi is chief scientist of this concern here in the U.S. They are really still in the R&D stage trying to determine the viability of the device. These are Rossi’s latest statements. Let’s assume this is all totally true. So pretend its GE and they set up and R&D unit here with Rossi as the chief scientist, and two years from now it is turned into a business unit where they manufacture and sell the GE LENR heating unit.

        What rights do the people who bought distribution licenses to sell the e-cat from Leonardo Corp. have to sell this GE LENR heating unit in their territories? None. The e-cat never had a patent on it that these licensees can point to. Leonardo Corp. didn’t sell all of its assets (as far as we know) to GE, that included the distribution contracts. Rossi is essentially saying he is an employee for another company now, which is based in the U.S. And the future of the e-cat (if they ever decide to commercialize it) is in this company’s hands, not his.

        Again, this could all be 100% true. But even if it is, it spells big problems for the people who purchased distribution licenses. Where do they fit into this new arrangement? I would argue that they don’t. I guarantee that if this U.S. corp does bring the e-cat to market at some point, it won’t be called the e-cat, it won’t have anything to do with Leonardo Corp., and there will be several new patents filed on it that will make it a separate and unique device from the e-cat that the distributors put up money to sell.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          I agree, there are a lot of legal battles ahead, which could delay LENR implementation.

        • GreenWin

          What legit business enters a partnership or acquisition without doing due diligence? Minor setbacks are part of life.

        • Omega Z

          These Issues were already dealt with by Rossi & posted on JONP many months ago. The Partner has it’s markets set out for it, Primarily North & South America & some smaller market concerns including the U.S. Military.

          In fact, these Markets Reserved by Rossi from the beginning was part of the fallout with Rossi’s 1st partner DGT.

          One of the main Concerns for DGT was Not being allowed to sell in Canada. This may have involved where some of DGT’s initial Investors were from. Possibly Canadian.

          If this were an Issue, Rossi’s licensees would already have come forward with it.

    • Shane D.

      Yes Bernie, I do think something is going on also. My guess is that this is coming to a conclusion soon… one way or the other. I think it will be a good ending, but maybe not so good as we were led to believe. A revolution nonetheless.

      Events unseen, nor known to us, are driving the end results now as I read it. I also don’t think he is in full control anymore as you suggest.

      That is good IMO. Time for the next step.

  • Lars

    I heard in a phone call this morning that Cleanrgy a Swedish Manufacturer of Sterling engines has bought up one of Volvos production facilities for large scale sterling engine production.

    They recently bought a patent from Kockums / Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems for Sterling engines. Kockums only produce themself for military applications. What Cleanergy have for applications I do not know.

    I do not know if relevant (probably not) and I would like to add that I can have missed on some of the details or be completely wrong.

    Im just throwing it out there since sterling engines seems to be a hot topic now a days.

  • Roger Bird

    So, here’s my fantasy. Sometime in the future, when Rossi is making lots of money, all members of http://www.e-catworld.com and others get invitations and a round trip ticket for two to visit Rossi in Florida and get a tour of his plant and a demonstration and an option to buy a home e-cat for a mere $400 that can slip right into one’s furnace and an Italian dinner at the restaurant that Rossi bought. No, no, you don’t understand. That is not the punchline. Explicatively excluded are maryyugo, et. al. That is the punchline. That is my favorite part of this fantasy. (:->)

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      RIP
      Mary Yugo run over by an 18 wheeler.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTKZgEW8pM

      • Robyn Wyrick

        Harsh

      • Thinks4Self

        LMAO! I almost bought one when they were newly imported into the US, but the turn signal snapped in two during the test drive, making me severely reconsider my decision.

    • psi

      +1.

    • BroKeeper

      Even snakes are of some use. They are not only tasty to AR’s appetite but also rid of the apostate rodents and vermin that infect critical thinkers. They may bite the heels of the E-Cat apostles but eventually be plummeted over the heads with truth.
      So my proposal is to invite them to Florida after their reincarnation as witnesses to their conversion.
      Give me an AMEN brothers!

      • Roger Bird

        Everyone is infinitely precious. Everyone will also receive the consequences of their actions.

        • BroKeeper

          I’ll give You an AMEN! for that Excellent point. 🙂

  • DustyBins

    I guess the Nuclear Regulatory Commission “protecting people and the environment” may want to investigate Rossi’s USA partner to ensure that the radiation, in contention throughout the last few years, emitting from the USA manufactured e-cats are at levels safe for production, testing and sale. I can’t wait to see the seal of approval on the e-cat. I guess the UL may have a say in it too… No doubt the e-cat will pass that with flying colors. Provided of course the extensive testing doesn’t result in meltdown. Hmm, maybe Rossi should have moved to Indonesia, or Bangladesh.

    • Omega Z

      The Low Temp 1Mw has already been Safety Certified for industrial USE.
      http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/09/andrea-rossi-makes-available-safety-certificate-from-sgs/

      • DustyBins

        Well I sure hope the NRC accepts that as proof of the e-cat’s safety. But wasn’t that only for the low-temp e-cat? Not to mention OSHA monitoring the manufacturing plant due to nickel’s high toxicity. Nothing that can’t be handled mind you. Just in the USA there are lot’s of regulations that no one ever thinks of that may need to be followed/granted before I get my hands on a E-Cat unit. (Man! am I chompin’ at the bit now.)

        • GreenWin

          Poor NRC. They’ve already got their hands full trying to comply with the Federal District Court Order that has frozen all new nuke plant permits until NRC figures out a SAFE Congressional approved method of hiding/burying the last 70 years of highly radioactive waste. Hundreds of tons of the stuff. Unhappily there isn’t a single State in the Union that wants it.

          THEN they have to decommission the US hot fusion sites (including NIF) and provide safe methods for doing so. They’ve got the ongoing 100 billion dollar mess to clean up in Hanford, and a huge safety concern at Oak Ridge. Then there is all that medical nuke stuff. Hundreds of thousands of machines and implants and gadgets using tiny bits of radioactive materials.

          When and if they ever have a technical reason to look at E-CAt well, hurray! is produces NO ionizing radiation! AND there is no radioactive waste of any kind. It doesn’t even use radioactive elements! Gee, I’ll bet some desk jockey at NRC really hopes he gets the call. Sounds like a cushy job.

          • Jim

            Well, they COULD simply use that stuff up in thorium reactors. It’s not like they are unknown. In fact, until the e-cat, I thought for sure everyone would eventually be powered by thorium reactors.

            With the e-cat, it won’t be necessary, but it would still be a good way to use up the existing nuclear waste we have.

        • Omega Z

          Hot Cat Safety Certifications are in process. These will likely be Industrial domain for quit sometime.

          Toxic. You live among Toxic elements everyday. Dozens of products contain them. I’ve worked with many of them. Some you can legally purchase including Nickle powder.

          E-cats: Is that the product you want or 1 of several others that come to market in the next couple years. Several that none here are even aware of. There coming.

          There is much more going on behind the scenes that none of us have privy to.

    • fortyniner

      As the US EPA has drastically raised ‘safe’ radiation limits for population exposure in order to downplay the levels of radioactive contamination drifting to the US from Fukushima, Rossi’s gadgets should be OK even if they glow blue in the dark (they don’t, of course – only suchi from Japan does that).

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-approves-raising-permissible-levels-of-nuclear-radiation-in-drinking-water-civilian-cancer-deaths-expected-to-skyrocket/5331224

      http://www.nuclearcrimes.org/fukushimaupdates.php

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Ah yes, this fits quite well with the “new normal” for sanity.

      • GreenWin

        fortyniner, one might think opponents of clean, green abundant energy hope to use regulators to slow progress. But with these behemoth agencies already backlogged with years of rules and enforcement, it is doubtful.

        It’s also quite sad to see how the fission industry pretends Fukushima was no big thing. And, don’t worry, SMRs will be buried underground where… if anything goes wrong only your water table will know.

  • John-64

    As a guess (and really, until we can buy an e-cat, it’s all just guesses) that “working 24/7” means having a bed at his office, since he’s finishing late today and it’s not worth going home.

    • fortyniner

      Rossi said that the work continues 24/7 in the US – not that he personally works 24 hour days. You may need to work on your reading comprehension skills a little.

      • John-64

        Haha. Maybe your reading comprehension needs to improve too, where did I say that he worked 24 hours?

        Anyway, I just skim articles these days. A never ending stream of “Rossi says” for the last 18 months of reading this website can do that to you.

        Give me a “Rossi does” and I’ll read it properly.

  • vbasic

    It’s possible the original 10kw ecats at 120C are the only reliable ones, based on the chronology of events.
    1) in late 2011, Rossi announces a commercial 1MW plant, which is a bundling of 100+ 10KW ecats (those 10KW units might be sold as home units in the future).
    2) in early 2012, Brillouin announced they had 400C LENR boilers capable of driving turbines.
    3) A few months later, Rossi announces a 600C ecat.
    4) Other competitors later announce their LENR devices will make electricity,
    5) Rossi announces the 1,000C Hot Cat.
    I think the 600C ecat was a ‘pushed’ version of the original and probably not reliable as an answer to the Brillouin announcement. As Rossi realized there is not much of a market for warm 1MW plants that cant drive turbines, he changed the 600C version further, to something which may take much more time to market, but much more desirable to industry. In retrospect, it is now disappointing those original 10KW units didn’t make it to the home heating market first.

    A

    • Omega Z

      The Hot Cat is a totally different design to handle the high temps & to allow sufficient surface contact for heat transfer. However, the same active process.

      But it still is primarily a R&D product susceptible to additional changes before becoming a marketable product.

    • Tom59

      Not talking about the temperature range, but the 1MW plant build into a shipping container seems a bit complex to me for industrial use – from the pictures it looks like each ecat has its own pump. So 100 pumps with all the connections – not very service friendly and sensitive, more of an upscale of the first table top ecats. In contast, the new model with the flange on it, tested in the 3rd party report, looks better to me. Like you can just stick a bunch of them into a boiler with convection in the water doing the cooling, so much more simple and reliable. Probably influenced by the Rossis partner. And maybe Rossi did not want to show that model, so the first test in the 3rd party report used the old one – and only when it burned he offered the new model. But for the home ecat you may need a pump for cooling water circulation.

      • fortyniner

        I agree entirely. The design could be massively simplified, and there might well also be advantages from a ‘thermal flywheel’ effect (the mass of heated water in a common plenum chamber). Such a design would probably occupy less than a half of the present volume, and could probably be mounted on a small skid rather than being housed in a full size ISO container, making installation far easier.

        Replacement of individual modules would also be much simpler if something similar to the ‘hot cat’ flanged design were to be adopted for individual modules, and a one-piece design as you suggest seems inevitable.

  • Roger Bird

    I have written a lot about dependent vs. independent thinking here at e-catworld.com But upon further contemplation, I realize that there is also an issue of dependent vs. independent observing. Some people, upon seeing something unusual or “impossible”, just forget about it, run to someone else and ask if that is real, deny it, anything but face the fact that it was real. These people generally follow. And they are generally right. They are dependent observers. Independent observers have the confidence that what they experienced was real. They are leaders. They often make mistake, but they discover new things.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Most people are oriented like me-versus-other-people, only few are me-versus-the-universe.

  • Omega Z

    This is a response on JONP to Paul Kendall.

    Andrea Rossi June 26th, 2013 at 7:59 AM

    Paul D. Kendall:
    Thank you for your kind considerations. Yes, soon we will need much help. Very important developments are close to pop up. The USA factory is in advanced status ( it is magnificent), and important developments are coming up.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

    This begged a question from Herb Gillis, & Rossi’s response.

    Herb Gillis June 26th, 2013 at 10:38 AM

    Dear Andrea Rossi:
    When you said earlier today that “soon we will need much help”, do you mean you will be hiring employees?
    Kind Regards; HRG.
    ——————————–
    Andrea Rossi June 26th, 2013 at 1:39 PM

    Herb Gillis:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

    I don’t think will have to wait until after the 6 month test is done & then published.

    I try not to be over optimistic on time lines, but Rossi’s statements lead me to believe we will see some concrete information about the E-cat reality within the next 2 or 3 months.

    • daniel maris

      Well who is going to bet against him this time? I think wait and see remains the best policy.

      • fortyniner

        +1

  • KD

    Iggy Dalrymple on July 4, 2013 at 2:00 am

    I emailed a manufacturer of a promising efficient engine/generator and told them of Rossi’s request for products to test with his ecat.
    An officer replied that his company was already negotiating with a “proven competitor” of Rossi’s. I won’t give the name of the company since it was a private email.

    Who the Rossi competitor might be?
    If not Defkalion, then it might be BlackLight Power.

    It strange for me, that they keep the informations about theirs reactors on theirs webpage.
    But nothing about building of them.

    • Omega Z

      Maybe I’m wrong, but I was of the impression that Black Light Power was shooting for Direct Electric conversion.
      Then again, I think they intend to license the technology, Not manufacture it.

      To NOTE: Many Months ago, Someone in a position to know(Don’t Recall his name) Stated that 1 possibly 2 other Entities were near to market & could possibly beat Rossi to market.

      “These Entities are outside public awareness.”

      I wondered when this statement was made & Still do if this is why Rossi pushes so hard. He has NO Time for conferences ICCF, NI Week, Etc. Rossi is aware & knows he’s in a serious race to Market.

      This may even be the Catalyst for Rossi suddenly taking new interest in Sterling Generators. NOT as efficient as Turbines, But easily/quickly adapted, Far less complicated & if COP>20 PLUS, even economical. This could easily cut a year off to market.

    • Guga

      Interesting. It has been reported that Defkalion is cooperating with several manufacturers from different fields. So I think Defkalion is a good guess.

  • Allan Shura

    It is much easier to sell something that can be seen and taken for a test drive.

    The economics say that even the first generation product has very
    significant cost competitive advantages.

    The only question is the reliability of operation, but it has been
    said to have been used in heating for about a year in Italy.

  • dayton

    I think Mr.Rossi is having big problems. On the BLOG ECATREPORT, there is a
    request from Mr. Rossi for anyone to send him a sterlig engine for use as a gift sort of.
    I cannot build a sterling here at home cause I don’t have the foggiest of
    how I would build one, but the LEONARDO CORP. ought to be able to furnish a working model.
    YIKES!

    • KD

      dayton
      Read,read, read what is writen.
      Rossi is asked to make E-Cat producing electricity.
      So Rossi is asking anyone who have working “sterling engine” to send him offer.
      I it will work, Rossi will buy it.
      He is not going to build turbines or generators.

      • daton

        OK you got your understanding.
        What I am screaming is the sterling engine was originally created timewise, in 1811 AD. It is supposed to be one of the simplest engines ever created. Rossi is an engineer working in a foundry creating reactors and containers for the reactors. What’s his problem building one there, he must have the material and machines, such as lathes. Reading this article leaves me to believe that Mr. Rossi has no more money or Focardi was the
        magician not the apprentice.

      • dayton

        I am not going to just except your feedback. Are you kidding that you know what is being done in Rossi’s fabrication shop.
        I say again something doesn’t seem right with this news story.
        I am thinking that Focardi was more important than the world was led to believe. I am saying heads up. Lets see what happens
        in Texas with NI and Defkalion.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi has stated many times that Turbines, Generators Etc will be provided/Manufactured by after market. Not by him or Leonardo.

          As to Sterling Engines-

          Andrea Rossi June 27th, 2013 at 9:33 AM

          To the Readers expert in Sterling Engine or manufacturers of Sterling Engines:
          Please send your proposals for Sterling Engines to be coupled with the E-Cats ( power 5 kW and 10 kW).
          The best offers will be bought for testing.
          Ask more details to
          [email protected],com
          Attention of Dr Andrea Rossi

          The Reference to the 5Kw and 10Kw is the E-cat power specs. Not the sterling specs.

          • dayton

            Wait a minute. Leonardo Corp. is the equipment manufacturer not Rossi. Rossi is creating a platform not a final product this is called R&D.
            Again: you tell us what size is a 5KW ecat? Do you have to install an ecat into the body of a sterling engine? What exactly is the heat requirements 100c or 700C or are we to furnish pipe fittings and what size. Oh you are going to send drawings. Oh, your not going to send drawings.
            Get it? something is not right.

            • Omega Z

              Leonardo is R&D, Not the Manufacturer per-say. They build a prototype/proof of concept.

              The E-cat Outputs are given as a rough figure so that a Sterling Engine Company has an Idea as to which product to propose for joining/coupling to the E-cat. Obviously you wouldn’t propose a unit that required 50mw of heat to properly Operate. If they have a product within the given Range, they can contact Leonardo for further details.

              If a Compatible product is available, It would be up to Rossi & his people to build the Heat exchanger & put it into operation. Then Rossi or his partner could optimize it & determine if it’s economical to market.

              With a COP of 6, this wasn’t economical as near all Energy produced would be offset by the input. If Rossi is now able to push COP of 20 Plus, it now becomes feasible.

              This would be much simpler then coupling the E-cat to a Turbine which requires a much refined Steam output & pressure. This would be an intermediate step to Turbine generators.

              • Roger Bird

                Have people forgotten about the supercritical CO2 turbine?

                • Omega Z

                  It’s not yet available, But interesting.

                  Once LENR products are on the market, I expect a lot of movement in the Conversion process.

              • KD

                Well done omega.

          • George dayton

            Wait a minute. Leonardo Corp. is the equipment manufacturer not Rossi. Rossi is creating a platform not a final product this is called R&D.
            Again: you tell us what size is a 5KW ecat? Do you have to install an ecat into the body of a sterling engine? What exactly is the heat requirements 100c or 700C or are we to furnish pipe fittings and what size. Oh you are going to send drawings. Oh, your not going to send drawings.
            Get it? something is not right.

            • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

              Man, you need to learn to understand what you read. Re-read Omega’s post.

  • frank sedei

    I would love to see the financial agreement between Andrea and his US partner. That would say a lot about the seriousness of this invention and it’s progress toward the market place.

    • KD

      Sorrrry but it is between those businesses and we have nothing to do about.:))

  • Steve M

    Rossi sure was vague on that statement almost like we are in for another year of – wait and see, I hope not.

    • Kim

      We are in for another year of wait and
      see

      This is because “The Money” can’t figure
      out how to make money without given away
      the crux secrets.

      I guarantee that when they can figure
      out how to make money without giving
      the secret away, then production will
      start like yesterday!

      Respect
      KIm

      • MStone

        How exactly does that work Kim?

        The large company makes the product…then starts selling it to electric generation facilities…the end.

        I can only surmise from your nebulous statement that you think a competitor will crack open a sold e-cat and reverse engineer it.

        That is all fine and dandy. But, Rossi has submitted US and international patents that have been rejected. The point is that the US and foreign patent offices have RECEIVED them. If the e-cat works and sales go through the roof; watch the Patent offices do a complete 180. The will also use the original patent application date on the “new special patents” that way….any competitor that reverse engineered rossi’s e-cat will have to pay all their profits to Rossi. So, let them reverse engineer away.

        • Omega Z

          MStone

          They will reverse engineer it.

          They will use the knowledge to develop their own technique that they can Patent saving years of research.

          Otherwise, they would just pay a licensing fee for Rossi’s Patent. Just Business as usual.

          • MStone

            They will reverse engineer it.

            They will use the knowledge to develop their own technique that they can Patent saving years of research.

            Otherwise, they would just pay a licensing fee for Rossi’s Patent. Just Business as usual.

            …………so? They could do the same thing if it was under patent protection. If widget 1 is under patent protection and you see a better way to make widget 1 without copying widget 1…thats legit. Lets say rossi has a supercharger…you understand how that works and come up with a turbo booster….thats legit.

            “Try and force China to honor a patent.”

            who cares about China? They will steal it if you do or do not have a patent haha. Rossi will still make tons and tons of money off the US and Europe.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          MStone – “any competitor that reverse engineered rossi’s e-cat will have to pay all their profits to Rossi. So, let them reverse engineer away.”

          Try and force China to honor a patent.

          http://ir.amsc.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=774372

          • Omega Z

            Iggy

            I don’t worry much about China.
            Simply because they would have to gear up to 3000 1Mw Cats Per Week just too meet their own Growing needs.

            This doesn’t include additional hardware such as Turbines Etc, or replacing Existing power plants. It will take them a couple decades before they have excess.

            However they could avoid License or Royalty fees in China. As soon as they start exporting, those fees could be tacked on as Import Tax.

            • Bob

              Do you think that China couldn’t manufacture 3000 units per week?
              If you answer yes, you are wrong.
              They could set up such facilties in under 12 months. They have the people and the drive to do it.
              They wouldn’t be waiting five years for a safety permit.
              They would be supplying their own permit for their local market and have them on the shop floors in months.
              And the rest of the world would then be buying them on the black market while we wait for whatever the holdup is to clear.
              And what countries would be interested in applying an import duty?
              Who applies import duties on all the other products they copy and sell world wide?

              • Omega Z

                That would be 3000 1Mw units per week or 300,000 units. Just to keep up with China’s present domestic demand. E-cats being the smaller component of many.

                China has many dire needs. Why do they not fulfill them. Real World Limitations, Financial, Material, & Skilled Manpower among them.

                The same reasons it will take the rest of the world 2 or 3 decades to transition.

                • BroKeeper

                  Wouldn’t it be better for China and the whole world if we helped the Chinese people build (with some royalties) the E-Cats for their own use? We are seeing headlines like: “China is quite easily the worst pollution levels in the world…. with seven times higher than the air quality standard set by the World Health Organization (WHO)”, “China introduces Death Penalty for Serious Cases of Pollution”, and “80% of the Chinese public believe that the protection of the environment is more important than economic development”.
                  The Chinese demand for energy is increasing exponentially. It will take a while before any relief is seen even with mass production of E-Cats. Does everything have to be for profit? Good will can go a long ways.

                • Omega Z

                  BroKeeper

                  I have Zero problem with reasonable profits. It’s what makes things work.

                  Even China’s Businesses make a profit. For Export they make Excellent profits that other countries can only dream of.

                  And no problem with a little charity, but before there can be charity, there must be a profit to pay for that charity.

              • GreenWin

                Wonder what China CCP will do when their people realize the thousands of coal burning power plants, river-choking dams, miles of transmission towers, sub-stations, grid systems etc. they’re building – are not necessary??

                • BroKeeper

                  I agree for the most part Omega Z. In proper time there will be room for both. Much regards.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          China?

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        +1

    • Omega Z

      Steve

      It all depends on what you expect to see.
      I see a continuation of progress & Hopefully a proof of concept on electricity generation this year.

      Maybe next year if were lucky, You will see a 5 to 10Mw system providing Energy to a small facility.
      This is after all still R&D. Even the LT E-Cat.

      If you want to see a full fledged High powered Power Plant providing Power to a small community, Look to the time line of a Conventional Gas/Coal Fired power plant. THAT Timeline is exactly what you can look forward to.

      Having had time to think about Al Gores mention of Fusion power & “Maybe implying ?LENR?” being 10 years or so before it’s available starts to become a little more clear. Planning & building such facilities takes years.

      Initially I wondered why he mentioned it at all in the interview. There was no need for it. In Hind sight, We know he is aware of it.
      And he included a sort of Wink Wink to others who are aware without Blasting it out to the mainstream. It is coming…

  • AB

    Some insight into the behavior of trolls:

    22passi has implemented a search engine with an interesting feature. It knows when the same person posts under different nicknames. Two people posted with 19 different user names each, one posted with 18 different user names, another with 15, and yet another with 6.

    http://22passi.blogspot.it/2013/07/search-22.html

    • GreenWin

      Thanks AB. At some point blog admins may want to install this analyzer as it proves how a few, obsessive tr01ls use 19+ different nicknames to post comments. Discounting these phony comments becomes statistically valid based on Passi’s work. We here at ECW, can assume that many of the “concern” comments, all come from the same 2-3 despots.

    • Barry

      On the Washington Post Wonkblog story, When you use the “ignore user” button on maryyugo another obnoxious toll disappears at the same time. Also uses a lot of her/his catch phrases.

      If Daniel came up with a troll filter it would be second greatest innovation of our time.

  • Julian Becker

    Regarding the secret partner, I do not think it is a company like General Electric, because they produce turbines themselves. So Rossi would not ask externally for proposals of Stirling turbines if the company is involved in that field….

    So what kind of company it could be then???? It is multi-national for sure… but which one….??? Does National Instruments build turbines? Maybe some other electricity company….AEP (American Electric Power)

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      NRG Energy seems most receptive to disruptive trends in electrical generation.

      The CEO speaks of distributed solar but I bet LENR is in the back of his mind.

      http://cleantechiq.com/2013/04/solar-to-ally-with-natural-gas-nrg-ceo-david-crane/

      • GreenWin

        Iggy, you will find this link interesting as the North American market for Distributed Energy Resources DER and microgrids is leading the world. And though there is still no mention of LENR devices – they ARE on the minds of many who are watching this market.

        Also, considering the worldwide trust in electric utilities has plummeted to 24% (Accenture June, 2013) – a new all time low, consumers are eager for alternatives – NOT invasive “smart grids.” All this adds up to a huge opportunity for small businesses startups to offer LENR or LENR+natural gas microgrids. Connecticut has a microgrid pilot program looking to give away $15M in grants.

        http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/07/05/north-america-will-lead-the-worldwide-microgrid-ma/

        • Roger Bird

          I wonder how GreenWin et. al seem to know what is on the minds of other people. This hubris is one of the pillars of the conspiracy theory structure.

          • GreenWin

            In then end, we are all one, Roger. 🙂

    • Omega Z

      Julian

      N.I. Doesn’t build turbines.
      Their expertise is primarily building specialty products for analysis suited to their Software for others. Including Specialty Computer designs for real time analysis.

      Their primary interest would be building Control Boxes & data collectors for this technology.

  • Donald Rangle

    %D%AIn Aug 2012, Rossi said of the original ecat: \”Inside the reactor temperatures are around 1500 °C.\”%D%A%D%ASo why is this latest incarnation called \”high temperature\”?%D%A%D%AThe outside is hotter only because no liquid cooling is used. But what is the advantage of this higher external temperature? To make electricity with a steam generator, you have to add liquid cooling, and then you\\re back to where you started.%D%A%D

  • V.p.S.

    This is the most vague statement from Rossi in the last couple of months. After teasing a month ago about big technological and scientific surprises, this feels like he is now trying to backpedal somehow and to cut down the expectations. Not sure, if this is done on purpose or he is now getting some guidance as for outer communication. But after all, this “confuse expectations” strategy might be the right one to let the mainstream and most people think he has got nothing and continue to work towards the results in the background. But I am really wondering if he can focus on his work so much, if he constantly posts replies on his forum up to several times a day…

    • daniel maris

      I’ve managed to contribute to this and several other blogs when incredibly busy. His blog entries tend to be very short.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Florida late tycoon, Ed Ball’s favorite toast: “Confusion to the enemy”.

    • kasom

      sadly true…….

    • Pekka Janhunen

      The sentence sounds like Rossi might have experienced some testing setback recently (like yesterday or so). When a test fails unexpectedly, there is a period of confusion and crushing of future plans until a rational reason is found and progress can resume. Rossi has been in the situation enough many times to know that failing tests are normal, but nevertheless debugging problems is never routine.

      • V.p.S.

        Then his “big surprise” post should be interpreted as he just got quite promising tests results, which are actually far too early to speak about and will need further thorough evaluation. Some undefined time later they might (or not) make for a big surprise.

        But yes, I know, this all are drawbacks of Rossi’s communication style, ‘hot’ speculations right from the lab. Let’s see if this gonna change soon.

    • Barry

      There is often a lot of waiting around in a r&d process. Perhaps this is the nature of Ecat development and Rossi makes use of this time communicating.

  • Ecat

    By saying 24/7, maybe Rossi giving hint, that 6 month test started and someone, besides him, should be present at test site.
    Here is what he said:

    Andrea Rossi
    July 4th, 2013 at 6:57 AM

    David Linebarger:
    It happens to work 24 hours straight to me, in particular situation when it is indispensable my presence for very important tests. Our Team members make normal shifts, of course, but in exceptional situations they work more than that; as a matter of fact, the 24/7 are covered by shifts.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Allen

    You see what the vested interests are trying to do with Tesla sales. The same will happen with this if it pans out to be a viable device.

    • Michael

      If the establishment in the US and Europe does try to suppress this technology, you can bet that the Chinese, Russians and others will see this as a golden opportunity to gain an advantage. The western establishment would be aware of this dynamic too, which is why I’m skeptical of the idea that this technology will be successfully suppresed. Surely the US military-industrial complex would not want to let themselves fall behind like that?

    • Kim

      This is correct.
      Very Good Example.

      Respect
      Kim

      • MStone

        I’ve only been kinda keeping up with Tesla.

        What exactly are the “powers that be” doing to thwart the upstart?

        • Omega Z

          Tesla wants to bypass dealerships & sell direct to customers.

          The Dealerships are objecting to this plan as it cuts them out of profits.

          Personally, I wonder what 1 does if you need service work. Will Tesla send a repairmen & what would that cost?

          • MStone

            Oh I see.

    • Chuck

      I think the Tesla dustup is a horse of a somewhat different color. I don’t think that the involved parties particularly care what kind of vehicle that Tesla is selling, but that Tesla is trying to sell cars outside of the established system of car sales in the US. The fear is that if Tesla’s sales plan passes muster (i.e. online out-of-state sales), that any manufacturer, foreign or domestic, will be able to sell their products that way.

      This is significant because local brich-and-mortar dealerships represent a huge investment, both on the part of the dealership and the manufacturer. Warranty issues and recalls, not to mention routine service, is managed through the dealership network. How does Tesla propose to handle these when a buyer in East Moose Jaw makes a purchase?

      As an exercise, compare this to Japan’s multi-tier marketing of vehicles and other goods.

      I don’t think anyone is trying to suppress Tesla’s technology, only their marketing and sales plan.

      • Bruno

        Since the e-cat will eventually bypass our current centralized power generation model in favor of a progressively more distributed one, I’d say that the Tesla analogy is appropriate.

        • Chuck

          I don’t think so. I can install PV panels on my roof or run a diesel or petrol generator on my property and feel reasonably secure that I will not be prevented by government from doing so.

          As a matter of fact, I can expect to receive a government subsidy for the use of non-centralized PV generation.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      The “vested interests” aren’t trying to throttle Tesla sales. They (the independent dealers) just want a piece of the action.

      Every business association tries to protect its turf. Even though GEICO and USAA are “direct underwriters”, they must still go through a licensed insurance agent in most states.

      Licensing laws are NOT for the benefit of the public. They are for the protection of special interests and to facilitate funding of political campaigns.

      • GreenWin

        Sounds like Tesla wants to keep costs down by separating sales and service. They can easily certify a local repair shop to provide Tesla service. Of course an electric car uses far less parts than an internal combustion engine so “repair” is limited to remove and replace.

      • sam

        The thing I see as, different with Tesla is that, there is is no regular maintanance like oil change and the like. the main little problems like the door handle doesn’t pop out like it is supposed to, or some other little high tech device doesn’t work right, is usually solved with a software upgrade that is downloaded for free straight to the car. SWEET!

        • GreenWin

          Seen those door handles Sam and they ARE sweet!

  • Fibber McGourlick

    “As this technology is still in the development stage…” Rossi.

    If it’s still in development, it must be a long way from production.

    • Omega Z

      It’s all in continuous development. Many changes will come even after it’s on the market.

      Tho the LT-Cat seems to be moving to market now, I doubt the Hot cat will be available for about a year.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    For better or worse, the E-cat is now in the hands of Corporate America/big money interests. Will it be exploited, buried, or manufactured and sold for the good of humanity?

    • Kim

      Bottom line is they need to make a
      certain threshold money on it.

      Introducing it to the market gives the
      secret away… this is the problem, you
      can count on it.

      otherwise it will go away.

      Respect
      Kim

      • MStone

        Kim. What is your expertise in this area. Why should I believe you when you say “count on it”.

        I responded to one of your posts above as to why this is unfounded. I have a JD in Law with emphasis on intellectual property, and I am a patent-pending inventor. I did 90% of the patent work myself with a specialist doing the claims. So, that is my expertise.

        I see no reason the large company will not move forward with sales even in the face of reverse engineering competitors. Rossi’s submitted and rejected patents will come back to bite a competitor in the arse if the e-cat works and they reverse engineer. Rossi has already given the “secret sauce” to the foreign and domestic patent offices…and its dated.

    • Anothercoilgun

      Oh, it will be sold, but not for cheap.
      Easily I see LENR as a fall back for mega corps to monopolize if gasoline gets to scarce to produce. Remember the energy giants are ENERGY giants, does not matter what the energy is.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      I would think that Rossi would protect himself against “sitting on his technology”. Part of his compensation is likely royalty based. I bet he can opt out of contract if no progress within X period of time.

      • Jim

        Which is a pretty obvious (and one would assume standard) play for entrepreneurs with genuinely breakout innovations.

  • RBryan

    Don’t get ahead of your selves. Working 24/7 probably means prototype testing is ongoing 24/7. The factory requirements for limited production of Hot or E-cats is very minimal. Probably all is taking place in a “shunkworks” out-building somewhere.

  • Bob

    As you say, “This is a rather vague statement.”
    First of all, I thought he has been saying for years that he was making products, ready for market no less. But now they are in the development stage. What happened to all the products which were ready for market?

    Also, how do the licensees fit into all this?
    If a licensee comes up with a cash paying customer wanting to purchase a plant, will they now be told that it’s up to the partner to decide if they get one? A secret partner no less which no licensee can contact and ask why they are not getting their order filled. Who do they even approach to get an opinion as to whether their order will be accepted?

    I’m a bit surprised that the secret partner doesn’t veto some of these announcements.
    I can only conclude they don’t read them.
    In it’s present form it does nothing to inspire confidence.
    I think it would have been a lot better if it was added to the secrets list and not mentioned.

  • CHARLES(SWVA)

    What astonishes me is that no one involved in the USA manufacturing facility has leaked anything about its location. Or existence – at all. Nothing even from local builders or building permit issuers.

    Doesn’t a single one of them read e-catworld.com? Doesn’t a single one of them want to help out the hoping ones?

    They sure are a closed-mouth bunch. Makes one wonder if they really exist.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      As a point of comparison, NSA is a 60 year old organisation with $10+ billion annual budget (src:wikipedia), and until recently there was no signifacant leakage about what they are doing.

      • Anonymous Reader

        A report on NSA and Carnivore circulated on the internet in the mid 1990’s. There was also a book published. NSA Prism is old news for the tin foil hat set. Very old. Prism is just newer and better Carnivore. You would have had to be an idiot to expect NSA NOT to have Prism once you knew about Carnivore. It is like Claude Reynes in Casablanca — I am Shocked Shocked That Gambling is Going On Here!

    • Pedro

      Also, builders, etc. would not need to know in detail what purpose a building has. By building a factury for a ‘new type of boiler’ or ‘heating system’ a lot of people could be working on an ecat factory without feeling any need to leak… Perhaps the whole town knows about the new ‘boiler’ factury already.

      • Gerrit

        Right and I don’t even think there is a “whole town” involved. The production of these pieces of hardware would not require a huge floorspace.

        And if the production facility is automatized (“robots, robots”) there would be a much smaller number of people involved.

        Car manufacturers work on designing new models for years and you hardly ever see any info on future models from leaks.

        • Jim

          Car design is a useful analogy. While I liked Pekka’s NSA analogy secrecy in car design is easier to relate to. It speaks of a passion for the business (plus penalty and bonus arrangements.)

          • Pekka Janhunen

            It’s true, it’s a more closely related example.

          • GreenWin

            Secrecy, NDAs, proprietary technology are all BASIC tenets of business. Business is in part competition. The guy who GIVES his proprietary technology to the competition or free market – gets sheit in this world. Not everyone wants sheit.

    • Flubber

      You have not heard of me and therefor I do not exist.

      OOOOps… the wave function collapsed!

      Another good question is why no hacker have been able to infiltrate them and publish all the information.

      But then again… maybe its comes down to that every person on that project is a potential target for governmental and military intelligence surveillance. *hahahaha just kidding*

    • daniel maris

      Fair enough, but if you were a scammer it would be quite easy to float some “leaks”. And there doesn’t seem to have been much of that either. Sometimes supersceptics have Rossi down as the most diabolic of scammers able to orchestra a wide-ranging conspiracy (that embraces Defkalion for instance) whilst at other times you make out he is incredibly incompetent in his scamming.

      • Deleo77

        I think leaks would make it harder for Rossi to keep a scam going. Rossi can now say for years that the e-cat is buried in the R&D department of some nameless / faceless corporation. If I had purchased a distribution license I would demand now for Rossi to tell me who it is, so I could confirm whaf is saying.

        Also if it is a scam, i would say with these statements Rossi is taking the ability to get any future investors off the table. Any investor who would be putting up real money would need to confirm who the sole manufacturing partner for this device is before handing over a check. It would be beyond stupid if they didn’t.

        Finally if Rossi is lying about this manufacturing partner, he is building a case against himself for fraud. He would be inflating the commercial prospects of the e-cat by saying it is in the hands of another party to commercialize it, when in fact there was no corporation at all.

        Is it possible that people in the U.S. are working around the clock to commercialize the e-cat? I guess. But my bet is it would not be quite as top secret as Rossi is leading us to believe it needs to be. Somebody working on it would mention it to someone.

        • daniel maris

          I would disagree. If I was a scammer I think I’d be sending in quite a few messages from “amazed R&D workers” about how well everything is going, although there are a lot of things to work out for production…It would also be easy to forge some documentation as well.

          The fraud issue is important as well. What is he doing in the USA if he’s a scammer…he’s risking a LONG jail sentence. Would be better to scam from Italy.

        • Jim

          @Deleo77

          “Is it possible that people in the U.S. are working around the clock to commercialize the e-cat? I guess. But my bet is it would not be quite as top secret as Rossi is leading us to believe it needs to be. Somebody working on it would mention it to someone.”

          When I try to semantically parse your last paragraph, it seems like you’re saying that there is a contradiction between:

          A)1: “working around the clock” + 2: “would mention it to someone” implies 3: someone would know about it and leak it

          and

          B) The fact that we have no readily apparent evidence of leaks.

          If you are attempting through this imputed contradiction to cast doubt on Rossi’s assertion that work is being done 24/7 on e-cat development and production, it would be helpful if you would just come out and say that’s your intent, e.g. “this is a basis for doubt.”

          Otherwise you risk looking like a tr011, who likes to put a little edgy shadow on things, without ever really coming out into the light themselves.

          • Deleo77

            I can’t say I really understand what is going on. I do think if Rossi has a real partner in the U.S. and it is a large corporation, something would be known about it. It would likely be a public corporation, and they would have some key scientists
            and researchers working on it. Apple manages to keep products they are developing top secret, so it is possible. But my guess is some information would leak out over time. This isn’t something I would expect to stay completely quiet for that long, we are talking about a working LENR device here.

            On the other hand I find it interesting that Rossi is essentially saying that he has completely handed over the e-cat’s business and manufacturing to someone else. If it is a scam, that is kind of a risky thing to do. Imagine a few of the licensees getting together to demand who it is. This is a black or white answer. How can Rossi stay in a gray area with this? There is either a manufacturing partner or not. If this became a legal situation, he has left himself no wiggle room with these statements.

            I do think things have changed quite a bit. It sounds like the e-cat story has pretty much left Italy. The company now running the show is in the U.S. Rossi now seems to be spending more time here. The whole thing is just bizarre to say the least. If I were Roger Green I would really want to know who this secret company is. I would argue that he has a legal right to know.

            • Omega Z

              It’s much easier to keep a secret then many realize.

              You mention Apple. Saw a Documentary about that & the cost of leaking information could be a career killer.
              These people didn’t even discuss things with co-workers unless it was a need to know.

              Their system worked pretty good except when someone inadvertently left a prototype at a coffee shop or something.

              Bottom line. Secrets aren’t hard to keep even when 1000’s of people know.

              • Jim

                Interesting point. If you leaked Apple product secrets, you would not only suffer the full force of their legal wrath, you would also kiss your career in high tech goodbye. Time to move to Portland…(oh I really like the place 🙂 !)

              • GreenWin

                No need for leaking Apple stuff. Just go to work for Samsung or XYZ. Be sure to “wait out” the exclusionary period before transfer.

                Why should people with special knowledge not accept better legal offers?

    • Roger Bird

      Charles, keeping a secret for a manufacturing facility for an E-Cat would be incredibly easy. The tools and machines would never give away the secret. If they just don’t tell anyone, then the secret is kept. All of the people working on the manufacturing facility would just know to do their job and too bad that they have to wonder what the facility is for. They could even be lied to, easily. They could be told that it was for plumbing supplies or a home heating device (hopefully true). Rossi is not nearly as famous as Robert Oppenheimer, who was made in a nearby town by a boy scout. Even if Rossi should walk through his manufacturing facility and be seen by these workers, how are they possibly going to connect his face with his name? I wouldn’t be surprised if he wears dark glasses when touring his facility. There are thousands of manufacturing facilities coming up to speed in the USA on any given day, and the chances of one of his workers being an E-Cat aficionado is extremely slim.

  • sophareth camsonne

    Pertinent questions !

  • Gerrit

    The 1 MW plants are available on the market, right ?
    Imagine I want to buy a 1 MW plant, according to Rossi “the orders are issued to the US Manufacturer”. Wouldn’t it be nice to know where to place the order ?

    I could place the order at HydroFusion, but where do they place the order then, to Rossi or to the US partner ? If Rossi is no longer in charge of the business aspects, then I suppose Rossi himself is not taking the orders and HydroFusion should place them directly at the US partner.

    So HydroFusion probably knows who is the US partner.

    • khawk

      Sounds to me like Rossi is getting some professional help in how he communicates with folks following the E-Cat development. Between that and the lack of leaks, I think that is a good sign that he is dealing with pros, perhaps across the board.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I have noticed the same, but if it is good or not is still open.

        • khawk

          Have to agree with you on that one.

    • Frost*

      If you look at ecat.com’s twitter account you will see that they follow SiemensUSA.

      I wonder why? 🙂

    • Barry

      Gerrit, you can get ordering info at ecat.com Rossi is still the CEO of Leonardo Corp which is a separate entity from the US partner.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi always refers such Questions/Persons to Leonardo Corp.
      They are now the go between.

      This also keeps all communications out of the Blogs.