Rossi: Not Slowed Down Despite ‘Dirt Plays’ from ‘Army of Snakes’ [Update — AR Explains More]

Andrea Rossi’s motto seems to be that all problems can be dealt with by continuing to work. Here’s a recent comment on the Journal of Nuclear Physics regarding the state of affairs in his work.

We have not been slowed down and we reached a COP, without taxpayers’ financing, 6 times the COP reached, in 40 years and a hundred billions of the Taxpayers money, from the hot fusion guys. And we have not been slowed down even if an army of snakes has tried, and is trying, to boycott our work with all the possible dirt plays. And when I say all the possible dirt plays you can’t imagine what I am talking about. Nonetheless we are making good working plants.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

It would be interesting to get some details about what he is referring to here, but I don’t expect he’ provide any more details.

BTW, I asked Rossi on the JONP a couple of days ago about whether the 1 MW plant had been installed and if so, how it was working, and he replied: “I am not authorized to give any information so far, but as soon as possible I will.”

UPDATE:

Andrea Rossi explains more in response to this question by Bernie Koppenhoffer:

In the past you have denied any kind of conspiracy against your work and your E-Cats, has your position changed on this subject? Please inform us of the “dirt plays” so we can help you discredit the snakes.

Bernie Koppenhofer:
Yes, my position is changed. After the publication of the Report of the Third Indipendent Party the aggressivity against my person has changed register. The snakes prepared the ground for forces of another order of magnitude. Now I am running real risks, not deriving from the clowns and their snakes, but from higher echelons, supplied by deadly force. I got specific information. I am safe in the USA, not outside. Snakes are marginal . Now they are just keeping up stupidities, like ” in Uppsala Rossi one year ago made a test that did not co well ” ( yes, is true: one year ago I made a test in Uppsala that we have not been able to make because a welding of the reactor broke up: so, what?), or like ” 13 years ago ( !!!) LTI made a contract with DOD to supply Seebeck Effect generators that did not work” , but it is a misrepresentation: in the year 2000 LTI agreed with DOD to test an industrialized version of a prototype working by the Seebeck Effect: such prototype, made by myself in 1000 hours, therefore extremely expensive, had reached 20% of efficiency; we had to make an industrialized version, economically sustainable, but I have not been able to do it, in fact the efficiency of the thermoelectric modules after industrialized production fall down to 5%, made by modules of 2 to 5 Watts of power, destined to be combined to make any power. The research has been made with the clear knowledge of the fact that the passage from a manufacturing made handycraft by me to an industrialized version could not work. The honesty of our work has been so clear, that DOD continued for years to work with LTI for other issues.
The snakes and the clowns, unfortunately, are not our enemies, they are a piece of cake ( snakes are delicious boiled, with some mayonnaise and champagne).
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • Boondogled

    I wonder if Rossi makes the nickel powder with a belt sander, and the secret ingredient is silica powder, from the sand paper. It just seems too random to have stumbled across this technology one day 5 years ago. When other scientists use the most precise methods to attain the purest quality materials, and get bubcus for results.

    • captain

      To get better informed on Rossi’s invention, plz read past threads of ECW 😉

  • Nicholas Payne

    Last week in the Cannon Office Building Congressional offices in Washington DC, while on other business I came upon an Energy Efficiency Exhibition, so I said to one guy touting wind power. “Its all wonderful till Andrea Rossi mucks it all up” To which he replied “Andrea Rossi Ugh”

    • Roger Bird

      Try Googling “LENR hoax”.

      If one of us were to ask any high school science teacher, they would say “Cold Fusion is bunk” or “I think that cold fusion is bunk” or “Isn’t cold fusion bunk?” Very few scientists are with us on this. I would bet that fewer scientists are with us on this than are with those who disbelieve in AGW.

      There is a big difference. The AGW people are hysterical about AGW. Your local science teacher has no big concern about cold fusion. A few scientists on top are actively against cold fusion, and you can find some of those people by Googling “LENR hoax”.

      I just glanced at the Google listing of the sites. I have seen it before. I don’t want to get upset so I am not going to read any of the sites. I know that we have the truth on this one; and I know that we will never convince them with chatter; so what is the point of reading what they have to say. Anytime there is a scientific revolution or any change that is outside of the box, the debunkers come out in force, sort of like sharks that smell blood in the water. Only this time they are objectively wrong and we are going to prove it with results. And I will be so happy to see them look like fools.

      • Quanten

        Not really. The big difference between LENR and AGW is not who is vocal on it or not. In science circle AGW is not really a vocal debate. It is in the public place and politics that the issue is disputted. On the science side the evidence are quite big. Same as with “Natural selection” really, a lot of people in politic and public are refusing to accept the theory of evolution by natural selection (that previously living being evolved is a fact. The theory to explain that fact is the theory of natural selection). But on the science side, it is a quite accepted theory, because there are overhwlming quality evidence for it.

        So again, the big difference is how far AGW/Natural selection is confirmed by all sort of evidence, and is quite actually ordinary as a claim (heat trapping from various gas (CO2, H2O, SF6, CH4 etc…) is really old stuff and easy to experiment – similar with natural selection there is a lot going on in the details, but it is quite accepted that modern natural selection theory are the reason for evolution). LENR on the other hand does not have such reproducible results. That’s why the following of LENR in science circle is so different, and low.

        Now if solid reproducible evidence came up, you can bet your shirt that people would try to go for it ASAP.

  • Roger Barker

    Where do you honestly think Rossi is with the eCat? Do you think he’s got something he can switch on/off at will? Why is it taking such a long time for him to have a market ready product?

    • Roger Bird

      I think that the problem is that he has an entirely new technology and energy source since the foundation of the world (whenever that was), and he has to work out the kinks. Also, by it’s very nature it tends to be a positive feedback loop thingie. The hotter it gets, the faster the reaction, the faster the reaction the hotter it gets, and so on. By comparison, the internal combustion tends to be self-limiting. The burst consumes all of the fuel and the combustion is over, and then another spray and another burst. No positive feedback, unless of course you loaned the car keys to your teenage son. (:->)

  • Dan

    The oldest motivation in the world for murder is money. Rossi’s invention, if it gains any foothold at all, will cost others tens or maybe even hundreds of billions in lost revenue. This includes oil companies, coal mining companies, big fusion… you name it. Most of these big corporations are run by people who would kill their own mother if the benefit outweighed the risk so Rossi is right to be a bit paranoid about people being out to get him. Another poster suggested making sure that all the secrets become public if anything happens to him which is probably a good plan.

    • Roger Bird

      ” Most of these big corporations are run by people who would kill their own mother” That is a BIG, FAT libelous lie.

      The dictators of fascist oil countries are run by people who would kill their own mothers if the benefit outweighed the risk, and who here will deny that? I deny that our oil companies are run by people who would kill their own mothers, but who here will deny that the dictators of fascist oil countries would kill their own mothers?

  • artefact

    From ColdFusionNow.org:

    “Dr. Truchard will speak at this year’s International Conference of Cold Fusion (ICCF-18), sharing the keynote address with Dr. David Kidwell, a Naval Research Lab scientist who will present Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Research at the Naval Research Laboratory”

    http://coldfusionnow.org/dr-james-truchard-of-national-instruments-to-share-keynote-speaker-at-iccf-18/

    • Roger Bird

      Wow!!! Nice!!! I will love telling my wife that a multibillion dollar company will be having a ‘fair’ featuring LENR. Her eyes will bulge with excitement.

  • Frank

    Dear Mr. Rossi,

    I really hope you have mechanism in place that make sure to protect you. The biggest oil-companies are all US-companies, so I am not so sure who is interested in making you believe, you are only safe in the US. Maybe someone wants to make sure he has complete control?

    Anyway I like the idea of a life insurance by guarantying that all information leaks if something should happen to you.
    I would consider one more step further in this direction:
    If your technology isn’t blocked, than it will have this huge an impact, that thousands of companies will be able to make a good buck out of it. It will be multi billion dollar market for sure. So the biggest threat is not that a competitor takes away some of your cake. It is, that the cake gets never baked.
    You should have quite a technology and time advantage already. Let the information free. You can apply for patens even one year after releasing infos in the US. But, just as I said, the threat is not, that you won’t get your piece of the cake. The threat is that the cook disappears together with the recipe. You will be one of the most famous man, if you release the docs enabling people to rebuilt an basic (not most sophisticated, keep the know-how that makes a difference) etc. Nobody would be able to stop you.
    There have been a lot of wars fought for the sake of oil. You have no clue who you are up against. Just Google for Rockefeller. Perhaps better not to fight this war heads on. And of course you would have to be very, very secret even about considering any of this.

    • lenrdawn

      “The biggest oil-companies are all US-companies…”

      A common misconception: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/9c437598-11bb-11df-9d45-00144feab49a.gif

      • Frank

        Hi, thanks for your contribution concerning the oil reserves. With large oil-companies I was not talking about oil reserves, but about market cap und turnover. So I rely mostly on public listed companies. I addition to this no country has closer relations to the arab oil contries (Saudi-Arabia, Iraque, Kuwait etc. than the US.

        • lenrdawn

          I agree as far as US influence is concerned. And in terms of turnover, naturally the companies representing the last link in a commodity sales chain clock the largest revenues. But when it comes to profit, they’re nothing next to those owning most of the oil. “Saudi Arabian Oil” is estimated to make something between $220 and $280 billion a year in profit (which, to be fair, includes taxes since the owner is Saudi Arabia itself). So – a very limited number of people who don’t have to care about voters or shareholders sit on a very huge amount of money. Probably more dangerous than the BP board of directors.

          • Frank D

            Lol, I totally agree, that some of the normal oil company board of director may be just some nice, competent, successful guys. Not everyone who is successful has blood on his hands. I personally don’t like the Saudis leaders very much. Totalitarian regime, with lots and lots of slave like labour in the country, not to mention women’s rights. But that’s another topic…

            • Roger Bird

              I just keep saying, if 5H1T should come flying at Rossi, don’t expect it to come from an oil company. Expect it to come from a fascist oil country. And size won’t matter. But I sincerely think that by the time they find out about this little problem to their power and income and then believe it to be true, it will be too late.

    • Alexvs

      Greetings Mr. Acland. I share your worries about the cautions to be taken by Mr. Rossi.

      The first step should be to release an E-Cat unit, warm or hot, single or composed, capable of heating 100 liters of water from 20ºC to 30ºC consuming much less than 1 Kwh.
      Not so difficult. Time is no issue if water containers are properly isolated. Pipes, barrels, pumps, thermometers… are off the shelf stuff.

      • Frank D.

        Hi Alexvs,
        I happen to be another Frank (Frank D.). I was not aware, that Frank Acland was writing the blog, so I wouldn’t have written the comment using only my first name.
        I agree, that having some simply small unit shipped on the thousands in some not-much-regulated market (certification) would be a nice trick. But ramping up production is much more difficult to keep secret than relasing information.

    • jjaroslav

      I’m not very fond of conspiracy theories but in this case the number of enemies to this technology is incredibly large. Certainly those with so much to lose are the oil nations, the multinationals and the electric and gas energy suppliers; but it also goes right down to owner of the gas station on your corner. And then there is everyone in the middle…Any one of these people with their life’s career and investment at risk is going to be very unhappy.
      I just met a woman, whose entire family had been mining coal in WV for generations, hates the entire environmental movement as the enemy for what it did to their way of life, black lung and all…
      Revolution is always dangerous

      • Roger Bird

        If these large and powerful groups are even aware of Rossi and us, which for most is even doubtful, they probably think that we are at worse a bunch a yapping chihuahuas. Not being physics savvy and being imagination deficient, they don’t realize that this is not just another renewable that won’t amount to a 3 foot hill of beans.

        • jjaroslav

          Having worked for a large publicly traded multinational I can believe that this technology could easily pass through their cracks…but private businesses are different and their oversight is lower and often non-existent…

          The lifting force will be the predictably semi-cogent press whose story seeking (not ever unbiased) efforts will keep things interesting…..

          My optimistic bent says that countering all this is this forum and others like it; but even more importantly is the world-wide scientific communication under-structure that we do not see very often….tough to kill ideas unless you are Syria or China and even then…

          • Roger Bird

            Remember that in a fascist oil country, there is NO oversight. The dictator IS the oversight. This is what bothers me about them. They can do ANYTHING that they want, as long as no one connects them to the crime. And vicious thugs specialize in not being connected to crimes. When one goes to Vicious Thuggery School, mandatory courses are How to Not Get Caught 101, 102, and 135.

            • jjaroslav

              They scare the crap out of me too…but we have the secret weapon. While I hope AR successfully launches this, the LENR ‘movement’ is gaining knowledge and strength; soon it will be a forgone conclusion…..those who don’t get this are our modern day Luddites and destined for obscurity. and Hopefully before they do any damage or harm.

  • Brad Arnold

    Entirely predictable (i.e. army of snakes and dirty plays). When I tell people about LENR, the first thing they generally say is that the monied interests will stop it. Frankly, we could be killing ourselves (and we are), but some minority making a buck on it would try to stop us preserving ourselves (and they are).

    While Rossi’s “Italian E-Cat sauce” is unique, the LENR technology is widespread. All we need to do is get LENR into one market, and the global economy will force everyone to adapt. Like it or not LENR is just too easy a technology (and too lucrative) to stifle.

    If not Leonardo, then Defkalion. If not Defkalion, then Brillioun. If not Brillioun, then HUD (a Minnesota company). Give it up stewards of the status quo: tomorrow will not be like today.

  • hempenearth

    Hydrofusion appear to have a customer for the 1MW showcase. From JONP

    “Our Swedish licensee has proposed to us a Customer we like, therefore they are free to buy a plant to put it in the concern of their Customer and sell the energy. We gave them green light, but this is an initiative of theirs, not of ours.”

    • R101

      Possibly worthy of its own thread.

    • Karl

      Very good. One very clear business segment i Sweden for the E-Cat type of solution of Low temp and later High Temp, would certainly be heating and warm water supply in multi-dwellings for family residential’s.

    • freethinker

      Very good news! 🙂

      This will be very interesting to se how it unfold. Bubbley time? Perhaps, but I think there will be even more momentus info from this direction soon prompting to uncork that bubbly.

    • freethinker

      … But do you have a link or something, because I can’t find that in the latest blog 😉

      • freethinker

        One should not jump into commenting blogs just having waken up 🙂 The news are from the 12th of june as an answer to Gian Luca, and getting my brain into gear I recollect it has been discussed. But either way it is good news – was then and is now.

    • Steve M

      Frank where are you on this open the new thread – it is fathers day

  • Sandy

    Now we know why Rossi will not reveal the identity of his customers and partners. Those people too would become the targets of “deadly force”.

    • Roger Bird

      That does make sense. Perhaps they will all announce all at the same time in different parts of the world. Wouldn’t that be cool!

    • Omega Z

      Less likely deadly force.

      More like financial persuasion.
      As in we’ll pressure your customers to go elsewhere.
      Tax fraud Investigations real or Not. Etc.
      They quickly get the point.

      As a last resort, I just say it’s a bad Idea & show you a photo of your kid leaving school.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Rossi has said his life is in danger, how clear do you want him to make it.

        • Roger Bird

          Bernie, the problem is that it is difficult to believe.

        • Omega Z

          Bernie

          My Post was primarily to the effect-

          Why Rossi doesn’t want his customers named.
          There’s many ways to persuade them not to participate.

          It doesn’t have to be bodily harm. Financial ruin can be just as effective.

          To be more clear, Say I have threatened you, 1st financially, Etc, then with bodily harm And You Continue with your project. You’ve convinced me you have no fear of harm to Yourself. You have conviction that your work is greater then yourself.

          Then I calmly tell you “Bernie, I think what your doing is a very bad Idea”. I nonchalantly toss a couple Photos on your desk. Photos of your kids leaving school.

          As I walk out the door I mumble, Kids get hit crossing the street everyday.

          This could apply to Rossi or anyone willing to deal with him. Threats don’t even have to be carried out. One just needs to be convinced that they could be.

          Bodily harm would be a last resort after all other persuasions have failed.

  • Fibb

    I warned Rossi months ago on JONP that he’d be in the sights of many and needed to take serious precautions. He’s a goner unless he gets some powerful help/protection. I suspect that there are more than a few mobs out there that will try to destroy anything/anyone that threatens their oil revenues. Sadly, whole countries are dependent on oil revenue…. this is really high stakes stuff. They don’t even want Rossi and others changing the public’s expectations about energy – that it will someday be cheap and clean. I’m an atheist… but Signor Rossi, in your case, I’ll be praying for you buddy.

    • Roger Bird

      I think that you may still be living in the past. I doubt that oil companies are a threat. I have known oil company executives, personally and closely; they don’t hire hit men. They might hire a reporter; they don’t have practice hiring hitmen; a reporter is sufficient. Hiring hitmen is very risky business.

      But countries, fascist oil countries, hopefully Rossi will get enough positive exposure and market share long before these self-centered idiots like the dictator of Azerbaijan figure out what is going on. These kinds of excrement bags have already hired hit men. They have hit men on the payroll. These hit men have already been running errands for their dictator buddies for decades. The dictator probably got into power thanks to their hit men friends. They would not think twice about using these people to fix their little LENR problem, if they thought that they could get away with it. Russia, Nigeria, Iran (possibly), Venezuela (possibly), Equatorial Guinea, Yemen, Republic of the Congo, Uzbekistan, and most certainly many others. They don’t have to be big producers of oil in comparison to the world total or to other countries. Oil just has to be a big part of their personal/national income, and they need to be otherwise vicious thugs, and a LOT of countries qualify.

      • zbiges

        I agree with you Roger, that Mr. Rossi is the most secure in the U.S., but on the other hand, it is naive to say that if someone is able to hire a reporter to discredit their opponents do not hire a murderer. Unfortunately, I think the difference is calculated in U.S. dollars :(. Sorry that I write because I do not know anyone from the board of Exxon. Simply in this case I am a pessimist.
        I believe that the only good option is what Frank wrote.

        • Omega Z

          zbiges

          Franks proposal of distributing the knowledge would lead to a great delay in this technology coming to market. Maybe another decade or 2.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    This time around we have the benefit for knowing the history of what was done to the supporters of F&P when they confirmed F&P’s results. For example, when Prof, John O’M. Bockris found tritium in his cells the attack dogs were released. See 18:26 minute mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8jR2N6TP_0
    The older folks are aware of the history and know what to anticipate from the mainstream media (we’re immune). I think the best thing we can do is to bring this video to the attention of the younger people.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Pardon me, the benefit OF knowing

    • Roger Bird

      How about those Clayton Homes advertisement! They just make me want to run out and buy one so I can have such cool and sophisticated neighbors.

    • Joe Shea

      The problem is that if hit men kill Rossi, no one will know what his catalyst was and the whole E Cat story will be over. I enjoyed his story about boiling snakes in champagne, and no doubt the first snake he would would boil is Steven Krivits. I have done some dangerous, high-level investigative work both as a PI and a journalist, and I know that there is always the possibility someone might kill me. I recently received a letter promising that the writer would kill me. I don’t worry about these things, though, because the possibility always seems remote. I don’t believe Rossi is in any real danger. If he were, I would call the FBI and alert them to it. They might not do anything, but if there is any evidence – such as the letter I received – they might act. OTOH, none of the great inventors of the past and present time have been murdered for their economy-changing work – even Tesla, nor Edison, Kelvin, Watt, John D. Rockefeller, or anyone else whose ideas changed the world we live in. We tend to imagine killers because we think we are important. We may be important, but there are no killers waiting for us.

      • Roger Bird

        “The problem is that if hit men kill Rossi, no one will know what his catalyst was and the whole E Cat story will be over.” No, Joe. Rossi has already told me on June 1 “Yes, I have deposited in an escrow all the formulas, just in case… Anyway, whatever God wants from me, for me is good.”

      • Alp

        Rossi has said on JONP that he has taken precautions so that how the information needed to make ecats is released to others in the event of his death.

  • Roger Barker

    Hi guys,

    First time poster but long time lurker here.

    I know e-catworld is a forum for firm believers in Rossi but does it not bother you that Rossi said he had sold numerous 1MW eCats but as of yet there is no evidence of him having done so.

    • Roger Bird

      Why does everyone have to be a liar? Why do we have to assume that every unconfirmed word out of his mouth is a lie?

      The reason that so many people here are believers is that we keep doing that naughty thing of looking closely at the evidence and thinking for ourselves. If you stick around and do likewise, you may also become a believer.

      • GreenWin

        They’ve scraped through the bottom of the barrel and are now into the flooring below. Ad hominem attack is all that is left for the “consensus” of pathos. Reality is a beach.

      • Roger Barker

        I have some faith in LENR, though I’m not a true believer. However there are many simple ways for Rossi to show his technology is real but he hasn’t done so. Nonetheless I remain hopeful the 6 month test will be more conclusive.

        • Roger Bird

          Roger Barker, “true believer” is sort of an insult. It implies that someone has not carefully looked at the evidence in order to make a decision. I observed Rossi for 19 months before I decided he was for real. I think most everyone else here also took a long time observing Rossi and checking out the evidence.

          A “true believer” is the opposite of a skeptopath or patho-skeptic or pseudo-skeptic, someone who refuses to look at the evidence.

          We all started out as skeptics, just like you. If you do not start out as a skeptic when it comes to LENR, then you are scientifically clueless. LENR is the biggest change in technology since perhaps the invention of the wheel.

          Rossi has no need to convince us. He is going to capture the market place. Trying to convince us would just be a form of entertainment for him. So your wondering why he doesn’t convince us with more tests is assuming that he gives a rat’s rear-end what we think. He is focused on the market. Everything else is unimportant to him. He likes to share his excitement, and can you blame him; he has made the greatest discovery in the history of the world. He might explode if he didn’t share his excitement with someone.

          I am glad you are here.

          • Roger Barker

            If Rossi’s main drive is to capture the market place why did he do the 2 tests recently and why is he doing another one? Why not just build the devices and sell them?

            • Roger Bird

              Roger, Roger; Roger here to answer your question. Almost certainly Rossi did the 3 tests because ElForsk (which means Electricity Research in Swedish) asked for the tests before they were willing to get more involved, perhaps before they were going to buy an E-Cat plant. ElForsk asked for the tests almost certainly because Hanno Essen, Kullander, Mats Lewan, and other Swedes told ElForsk, “Hey, we have something here that you need to check out.” They probably said that in Swedish and not all in unison. (:->)

              • jjaroslav

                Also, launching new products should be an iterative process, especially when funds are short….A great discussion on the subject is The LEAN STARTUP – Eric Ries…says that he small pilot start-up is a proven successful strategy. Its like AR has been reading this…

          • jjaroslav

            Nicely put Roger…

        • AlainCo

          I agree that the lab report is not the best evidence that E-cat works.
          and E-cat is not the best proven reactor.

          best evidence are circumstantial. those evidence, when in organized in mesh, are much more solid and reliable than individual evidence, even good.

          around LENR, LENR+ reactors and industrialists, there is a huge mesh of circumstantial evidences, beside tons of papers that nobody dare to read.

    • Lukedc

      There is nothing “firm” about the views of a lot of the subscribers to this blog. The word I use to describe “us” is open minded. Andrea Rossi works in many different ways. As can be seen above there appears to be countless relentless attacks on the tech and his integrity.
      Why then would he not choose to fight fire with fire.
      So if you were to see him using subversive tactics, or lying to hide his true intentions should you immediately punish him?
      I am playing wait and see.
      For me the potential of the technology making it to market far outweighs what I think of him personally.

      Also to be completely honest, I don’t mind who makes it first to market. There is some on here who truly think that it should be AR and AR only to be showered with the rewards of a game changing revolutionary tech. I just don’t care. Given the gravity of the discovery I carelessly just want to see it working in front of my eyes.

      Cheers!

      • Roger Bird

        I think that it is clear that Andrea Rossi has accelerated interest, funding, and research in LENR. I don’t see how that could be disputed. Whether he is first to market remains to be seen. If he is second, I am not sure that it will matter except to historians. He will still make a pile of money.

      • psi

        + 1. The conspiracy had to come. Now it must be stopped – and free and open debate informed by fact can do so. Let’s leave behind the labels as much as possible. Free thinking is what we need. Here we go.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Lukedc….are you saying you don’t care about Intellectual Property rights….If you can steal someone’s ideas, go ahead, the only important objective is get it to market?

        • Lukedc

          I have committed many algorithms that I have devised over the years to the public domain. One that is used in dark frame subtraction for CCD imaging of faint astronomical objects being a notable one. I have no problem with sharing knowledge without monetary reward.

          • Warthog

            Others feel differently. That “is” their right. I you want to donate IP to the world….great. But if they want to develop and sell it as a product, also great.

    • hempenearth

      Hi Roger,
      Welcome, its good to have a diversity of posters. There may not be any direct evidence in the public realm of 1 MW sales but I think there is plenty of circumstantial evidence – one example and I don’t have time to dig it up – there was a photo of many of the people who witnessed the 1 MW (or 500kW) test and these people are increasing their involvement – it included National Instruments people, Ansaldo Energia people and other industrial players as well as the first customer’s engineer – I think they would not maintain their involvement without strong evidence.

    • freethinker

      He has a history of saying many things, some things happen, somethings happen after a delay, somethings dont turned out to be what he communicated, and something never turn up. The huge number of sales could easily be something that were in an “intent”, for many reasons not being realized. It has been a bumpy road.

      I have for the longest time doubted, but as my studies of available papers/information convinced me that lenr is real, I have maintained an open mind. Events the last year has secured my conviction that he has the goods. Especiallt the 3rd party report clinched the deal.

      My favorite analogy game to play when people claim that I am a “believer” is the following: there are many (think abiut it for a sec) things in your life you simply accept because people you trust say they are so. Lets take a look at some science related stuff. Have NASA put rovers on Mars? Can man create anti antipartickes? Split the atom? Does mass bend light? Is the sky blue because the light from the Sun get Rayleigh scatterd? Etc. Etc. in nauseum.

      Some of those things you may believe, or maybe you do not. Maybe you need to see for your self. I bet you buy those thing right of, because this is what you was taught in school or saw on TV. You trust the scientists. You “believe”.

      The guys behind lenr are no used cars salesmen, nor are they peddling snake oil. They are scientists, and they take a serious academic risk when they spend their time doing this research, considered by some hard core conservative peers in the main stream to be a pathological science.

      So when scientists of prestegious universities say that ecat works, like yourself, I “believe”.

      You say you are a long time lurker, well then you should know where to go to get informed of the scientific reality of lenr. Try Jed Rothwells site http://www.lenr.org and read up, and you to will likely see the truth for what it is. And with ecat, take the 3rd party’s word for it, or ask yourself how it could be possible for him to scam all people involved. Use Occum.

      • psi

        Yep. Its Occam (or Ockham) tho. : ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham

      • Roger Barker

        I remain open minded and very hopeful about LENR. The evidence, on paper, seems overwhelming. However more conclusive tests need to be done with higher COP to confirm the effect.

      • Christopher

        These are some of the reasons I accept the idea of Anthropogenic Global Warning.

        • Roger Bird

          “These” refer to no links and the article that you are responding to does not mention AGW. Could you please clarify.

          I think that you may be referring to freethinker’s reliance on the reports of academics like Essen and Levi. If so, I understand, but disagree. There is a big difference. The academics who you are relying on for AGW are theorizing and calculating. The academics that freethinker (and I and all of the rest of us except those who have actually observed an LENR or LENR+) have seen the LENR+ with their own skeptical and credentialed eyes.

          If all that I had was Levi or Essen sitting down at a table and doing calculations and deciding that LENR could be possible, and then doing some computer models, then I would say, “Prove it!” But they didn’t do that. They were surprised by what they saw, and then they spent 4 days twice (not counting the molten lump of metal in November) carefully measuring and observing the E-Cat. We can’t do that with the global climate.

      • http://lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        just re-read that wiki-rejected article on LENr controversy
        http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/293wikipedia.html

        you will observe where is the science and the anti-science, where are the guys who give name to a student manual, to a research building, and those who propose new thermodynamic to justify their incompetence in theory.

        I was surprise, but the supposed fringe scientist, they day before their successful experiment were top recognized experts in calorimetry, in electrochemistry, in isotope and radiation analysis…
        afterway like gold becoming lead, the owner of the official truths decided they were fringe.

        beside that, Caltec and MIT experiments of cold fusion were simply implementation of fraud, incompetence, and errors
        http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?419-Calorimetry-quality-comparison-by-Miles
        http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?14-History-of-MIT-F-amp-P-non-replication-fraud-denouncby-E-Mallove

        and only published because of groupthink, collusion, menace, and public money.
        http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?799-How-Nature-refused-to-re-examine-the-1989-CalTech-experiment
        http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?404-Report-41-DeNinno-by-ENEA-and-rejection
        http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.php?374-Nature-policy-on-CF-critic-Oriani-s-paper-dumped-despite-positive-Peer-review

        it can look surprising, but as explain thomas kuhn, it is “normal science”

        my occam razor says me that all that tragedy is “normal science”
        http://fr.slideshare.net/sandhyajohnson/the-structure-of-scientific-revolutions-thomas-kuhn-book-summary

        or maybe you want to imagine that without money, nor religion, nor power, nor public support, having their career ruined, their reputation muddied, their lab destroyed sometime, and closed often, a group of thousands of research including the top level experts in electrochemistry and nuclear instrumentation, decided to suicide professionally, to defraud thousands (at that level error is not realistic) of experiments of various kinds, with no discovered fraud ?

        such mass fraud have happened and are happening, but believe me it is for money, religion/ideology, and in general for both.

        Follow the money, and money don’t go to LENR, but to hot-fusion, renewables, and to the industry of fear and scarcity.

    • Jim

      Since purity is an illusion, I am unperterbed by inconsistency, and even misdirection. The hypothetical network of causes and effects that explains the largest number of commonsensical phenomena is the thing to keep an eye on.

    • AB

      I know e-catworld is a forum for firm believers in Rossi but does it not bother you that Rossi said he had sold numerous 1MW eCats but as of yet there is no evidence of him having done so.

      There is no evidence that it’s true, but there’s no evidence that it’s false. Making any assumptions in this regard would be jumping to conclusions. It’s an indeterminate variable that cannot be reasonably interpreted at this time.

      The way I decide whether the e-cat is likely to be true or likely to be false is by interpreting the circumstantial evidence and the Levi et. al. paper. These do not depend on anything Rossi says.

    • Gerrit

      Many companies claim things that turn out differently. Apple does it all the time. Does that bother you ?

      “firm believers” implies “gullible”.

      I think most posters here are very open minded. You have to weigh in all bits and pieces of information. Don’t select just the bad bits that look like contradictions and deduct that nothing is right therefore everything is wrong.

      Did Rossi claim there was a 3rd party testing ongoing ? – Was there ?
      Did Rossi claim there was a certification process ongoing ? – Was there ?

      It does not bother me that Rossi said he sold “numerous” 1MW plants and that there is no evidence that he actually did.
      Maybe he did sell them and delivered them and we simply don’t know. More likely, he had negotiations about selling 1MW plants, but the deal didn’t work out, maybe the customer wanted to see more improvements first. Maybe Rossi was overenthusiastically bragging about his commercial success, call it marketing.

  • http://www.neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

    A clarification of the low tricks of the effort of the opposed would be less mystery.

    I imagine he speaks of the 24 year systemic
    suppression of cold fusion.

  • Roger Bird

    So, does Rossi have SGS certification, and to what is it certified. Certification could be according to some European standard or USA standard or whatever. The certification would for some aspect, like gamma rays or COP or something. Does anyone actually know?

    http://www.sgs.com/en/Service-by-Type-Path/Certification.aspx

    • Pekka Janhunen

      It’s supposed to be a safety certification, so it probably includes radiological and other safety, but not COP because it’s not a performance evaluation.

      • Roger Bird

        So if Rossi got a SGS certification for radiation, this will PROVE to the skeptics and skeptopaths that the E-Cat is bogus. This is actually a good thing; this means that the skeptopaths will wait much longer before admitting that they were wrong, and their embarrassment will be even greater. Yippee. [Why am I happy about their embarrassment? Because I faced off against them regarding health issues for several years without the ideas concerning skeptopathology and camaraderie that protect me now. It’s pay back time for Roger!]

        • psi

          Now now Rog. Let’s be nice.

          • Roger Bird

            I’ll try. I find it easier to forgive individuals than groups.

  • Hampus

    Bernie Koppenhofer
    June 16th, 2013 at 9:19 AM
    Dr. Rossi: Thanks for sharing, those of us who believe in your work appreciate your answers. In the past you have denied any kind of conspiracy against your work and your E-Cats, has your position changed on this subject? Please inform us of the “dirt plays” so we can help you discredit the snakes.

    Answer:
    Andrea Rossi
    June 16th, 2013 at 12:52 PM
    Bernie Koppenhofer:
    Yes, my position is changed. After the publication of the Report of the Third Indipendent Party the aggressivity against my person has changed register. The snakes prepared the ground for forces of another order of magnitude. Now I am running real risks, not deriving from the clowns and their snakes, but from higher echelons, supplied by deadly force. I got specific information. I am safe in the USA, not outside. Snakes are marginal . Now they are just keeping up stupidities, like ” in Uppsala Rossi one year ago made a test that did not co well ” ( yes, is true: one year ago I made a test in Uppsala that we have not been able to make because a welding of the reactor broke up: so, what?), or like ” 13 years ago ( !!!) LTI made a contract with DOD to supply Seebeck Effect generators that did not work” , but it is a false representation: in the year 2000 LTI agreed with DOD to test an industrialized version of a prototype working by the Seebeck Effect: such prototype, made by myself in 1000 hours, therefore extremely expensive, had reached 20% of efficiency; we had to make an industrialized version, economically sustainable, but I have not been able to do it, in fact the efficiency of the thermoelectric modules after industrialized production fall down to 5%, made by modules of 2 to 5 Watts of power, destined to be combined to make any power. The research has been made with the clear knowledge of the fact that the passage from a manufacturing made handycraft by me to an industrialized version could not work. The honesty of our work has been so clear, that DOD continued for years to work with LTI.
    The snakes and the clowns, unfortunately, are not our enemies, they are a piece of cake ( snakes are delicious boiled, with some mayonnaise and champagne).
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Roger Bird

      So, outside of the USA sounds like the real mafia. It certainly ain’t Exxon-Mobile and that ilk.

      • KD

        In Italy mafia is controlling even Vatican Bank. Or other way.
        Vatican Bank is washing mafias dirty money.:)

        • Roger Bird

          Do you know this as a fact or are you just trash talking?

        • GreenWin

          Clean money and Church go together.

    • Alp

      Just out of curiosity, who has seen and reported on Mr. Rossi’s prototype high efficiency personally made thermo-electric converter other than him? And what happened to the prototype? Where is it now?

      It would work extremely well with an ecat to make electricity efficiently from heat. Why has Mr. Rossi not developed it further in all the time that elapsed since 2000?

      • Roger Bird

        I guess because he is just a crook and has been fooling numerous people including scientists and even nuclear physics. (sarcasm)

      • Omega Z

        There is a 150+ page Military report.
        It was determined that 2 areas needed time to advance.
        Industrial production technics & Materiel Science.
        Neither was up to speed for cheap mass production.

        The Rossi prototype I would Imagine is in their hands. Probably boxed up & in a warehouse somewhere.
        The Prototype was actually quite large. It included a chiller & was about the size of a refrigerator.

        The Military was looking for a cheap way to capture waste heat from Existing Generator plants. This was just a feasibility study fiscal research level.

        For what it was- It was efficient. About 20%. But that would not suffice for the E-cat. You would probably need something at 30% to be economical. And 100’s of hours to manually build each 1.

        The Government has funded advanced research in this area every since. Every time you hear a so called breakthrough in thermal electric conversion materials from MIT & such.

        I suspect within 10 years or so, we will see a device of such come to market with a 30% to 40% efficiency.

        However, it probably will not come from a University Research program. It will probably come from someone Like Rossi working in his basement or garage.

        EVEN if it says G.E. or Siemens on the LOGO. 80% of the time, This is how it works.

        Note: If this person should become well known, It is highly Probable he will receive an Honorary Degree from some University. They Like taking some credit for other people’s work.

        • Alp

          “The Prototype was actually quite large. It included a chiller & was about the size of a refrigerator.”

          Could you kindly point me to a link or image? I’ve never seen that. Thanks.

        • Thinks4Self

          20% would be enough to self sustain at COP of 6 on an ECAT. With plenty of waste heat.

          Pump the COP up to 10 and were really in business.

          • Omega Z

            COST

            It all comes down to cost & these devices are expensive.

            If you so choose, you can Go Off grid today. Why don’t you. The Cost far exceeds what Energy costs you from the grid.

            The E-cat is a Great Technology, but it’s actually a long way away from what people think or are looking for.

            • Thinks4Self

              I am with you on that. There are many thermoelectric devices currently at the lab level that look very promising. In 5 to 10 years some of them may make it into production most won’t. I am hoping that the ones using thin films and essentially printing technology are some of the ones that make it. They would be usable in all sorts of new power generating products. It all depends on cost of the final product.

    • zvidenyosef

      Mr Rossi, please take all precautions to keep yourself safe. The world is depending upon you.

      • catbauer24

        That is the problem. Real scientists distribute information so it can be used by any other person in the world… instead of just one or a few for financial gain.

        • Roger Bird

          Rossi is not a real scientist. He is an engineer, a businessman, and hopefully the savior of the human race from it’s own industrial crap, an important part of G0D’s work.

          • psi

            “Rossi is not a real scientist.”

            You crack me up. Way to take on the language.

            • Roger Bird

              Can you decipher my picture?

              • Dickyaesta

                Yes it is a cow or maybe a dog puppy drinking milk from a bottle. Cheers.

                • Roger Bird

                  Yes, I think that it is very sweet, and I am a sucker for sweetness, and I am also a raw milk advocate.

                  Cow puppies are called calves.

              • Barry

                Cool picture.

        • Roger Bird

          Rossi told me in an email that he has the secret protected in “escrow”. I am not sure exactly what that means, but I know that it is good and secure.

          • psi

            It means that if Rossi dies, his death will trigger a Rude-Goldberg Cybernetic Transmission & Communication Device Sequence (RGCTCDS for short) that will automatically email the recipe to the secret sauce to every damn email inbox on the internet or downstream in any associated intranet, with extra copies to newspaper editors network administrators, and radio and television executives.

            Clearly, violence of any sort is not in the interest of the conspirators.

            • Roger Bird

              “not in the interest of conspirators”. We don’t even know yet if there are any.

              • fortyniner

                Conspiracies tend to be kept quiet, Roger. They work better that way.

                I think that, given human nature and the behaviour of psychopaths, it is safe to assume that there may well be such conspiracies, but no-one here is likely to know what they may involve.

                • Roger Bird

                  Of course, if we can’t observe them they must be there.

                • fortyniner

                  Perhaps you think that multinational banks and corporations are run by nice people who believe in fair competition and losing gracefully?

                • Roger Bird

                  Your conspiracy theories are mostly Bull5H1T! Big corporations are run by 1/2way decent people who can’t risk and usually don’t want to risk knowing hitmen. You have been watching too many Hollywood movies. Getting your news from Hollywood is not such a great idea. Everyone knows in their heart that fascist governments of oil countries have no problem sending their hitmen to do their dirty work. Yet NOT ONE person has commented on this my comments about them. Why is this? Because it does not match the leftist fantasies that they get from movies that are made by large corporations.

                • jjaroslav

                  Again having worked for very large groups it is ‘generally’ the rule that the right hand hasn’t a clue about the left and they can barely steer the boat….cluelessness increasing exponentially to size. Not always though but mostly…..
                  A great treatise on the subject ‘Liars Poker’ – M. Lewis

        • freethinker

          My comment got stuck in mod. Then I saw that Roger nicely summed up what I intended to say anyway. 🙂

          Just one thing to add. I find your referense to “real scientists” disturbing. Are you new to this subject? Read up. Real scientists have tried and are still trying to get this area of research into the accepted realm of science. It is a daunting and very unforgiving task. I have a feeling that you see the entrepreneurship as a problem, rather than the fact that the secret will be lost if he dies before he is done.

        • Omega Z

          catbauer24

          The University mantra use to be publish or perish. Over time that has changed.

          Today it is Patent, Then publish, or perish. The Important information outside the Basics falls behind Pay Walls.
          Yes, there is a an Exchange of information. But if you want the details, It will cost you. It is not free.
          Universities, The New Corporate America.

          Corporate research information has a tendency to be published only after it’s lost most of its value. If it is shared, it is only in collaboration with agreed upon arrangements or partners.

          Corporations pay for their research. Not Tax payers. They have a right to hold on to it.

          Rossi pays for his research. Not Tax payers. He has a right to hold on to it

          Universities Use Tax Payer Money. It should be freely available to the Tax payers. We Paid For It.

          IF YOU, Should come up with a great invention at your expense, Someone will want you to freely give it to them. That they have a Right to it.
          I will be by Your Side. I will tell them it belongs to You. To do with as you please. It is your Intellect & money that created it. It is yours.

          • Roger Bird

            100%

            • winebuff

              Roger

              Republicans don’t believe in RnD oil and gas are just fine….right?

              • Roger Bird

                Since I don’t perfectly understand your question, I won’t answer it. Could you be so kind as to restate it with precision.

                But I will say this, lips that touch wine will never touch mine. (:->)

          • winebuff

            Omega z

            I dont know wherev your info cones from. The overwhelming najirity of RnD is govment spobsored and then given to corporations to have for nothing. Corporations are spending less and less because their investors want short term gains nit long term stability and to stay ahead of the competition in technologically.

            • Omega Z

              You need to research your research.
              Corporations spend far more on research then the Government & farm much of it out to Universities.

              Tax funded research is patented & Not Given to Corporations, But Licensed to them for a fee.

              In Fact a U.S. Corporation will on average pay a higher licensing Fee then a Foreign Corporation.

              Your about 3 decades behind on the politics of how it works today.

              A Decade ago, Tax funded University research lead to new types of Polymer Cements. The Basics were earmarked to be given Freely to 3rd world countries, But U.S. Corporations were to be licensed at Premium Fees. THIS is a regular occurrence.

  • COB

    What Rossi is describing is not even close to the behavior of an army.

  • Veblin

    From JONP.
    Michel
    June 16th, 2013 at 4:07 AM
    Dear Dr Rossi,

    If I understand well, certification of the domestic e-cat depends on collected data from industrial 1MW plans: don’t you think the process could take years if those results are still hidden by your Customers ? We are are all so impatient to buy a 10kW reactor !
    Michel

    Andrea Rossi
    June 16th, 2013 at 8:12 AM
    Michel:
    The results of the industrial plant are available to the certification guys, who also can visit the plants in operation.
    We are doing progress also on this issue.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Alp

      Who are these always mysterious and anonymous “certification guys”?

      • artefact

        probably still SGS

      • Omega Z

        Alp

        The Certification companies stay in the background. Their not allowed to be used for promotion of sales other then that a product has been Certified. As in Legally being allowed to place a certification stamp on ones product.

        When Rossi presented the SGS certification papers, It was only by permission from them & granted only because of defamation attacks. This was an exception to the rule.

        Many take lightly the Certification. It’s actually a Big Deal. When Certifying a product, The Certifying Entity takes on a huge liability of the product.

        If it’s found Not to be safe under the guidelines they Certified the product under, They can be held legally responsible, hence liable for harm & damages.

        • Alp

          I thought the SGS certificate was based entirely on data supplied by Rossi. Is that not correct? Did they do their own tests?

          • Omega Z

            Yes, They did their own tests on Rossi premises.

            They have to have fiscal control of the system & check for radiation & other safety measures. Type of wiring and anything else pertinent to it’s safety. They probably even got to look inside the Box.

            They may even require it to be run beyond normal limits to be sure it is safe.

            They do not verify COP even if it shows COP above 1. That is not their job. Only to determine it’s safety. It is certified for industrial use with qualified personnel on hand.

            Private home owner use would require a totally different set of safety standards, as it would not have qualified technicians on premises.

            Oh- And consumers notoriously ignore Instruction & safety measures. WE Don’t need no stinking instructions. LOL

            AND they also work under NDA. Required

            • Roger Bird

              “Fiscal, Fiscal, We don’t need no stinking vocabulary lessons.” From the movie “The Thesaurus of Sierra Your Mother Would Spank you for such an obvious error”. Its ‘physical’, not ‘fiscal’. Fiscal refers to monetary matters, as in “Our fiscal year ends in March.”

              • Omega Z

                Yes, Yes, Yes,

                I’m in a disruptive environment & mess up occasionally. Especially as I get older.

                No My mother rest her soul, wouldn’t get physical with me. She’d laugh.

                My Girl friend is an English Major SP’ED Teacher.

                She would look at me & say WHAT WERE YOU THINKING. 🙂

            • fortyniner

              Rossi has also repeatedly stated that no certification will be possible until there is plenty of evidence of safe industrial operation of prototypes.

              I believe that the implication of this is that the partner will be able to install and run a limited number of pilot plants within its own corporate structure, but will not be able to sell or lease them to any outside companies until general and individual industrial safety certificates can be obtained.

              This may well become a problem if outside interests play dirty to prevent the issue of such paperwork.

              • Thinks4Self

                Question for our friends in Sweden. Are regulations for something like the 1MW ECAT lax compared to the rest of the world in Sweden? Is this possibly the reason why the free plant must be setup there?

                • Omega Z

                  I believe it is a requirement by those financing it.

                  Probably of Swedish origin.

  • Roger Bird

    Yes, disbelieving people is disrespectful. Implying that someone is scamming or stupid is disrespectful. Yes, sometimes people have to debunk. But the person being debunked still feels disrespected, especially if they are telling the truth. So, I wouldn’t put it past anyone including Rossi to try to set someone up like Dick Smith to look stupid just for the sake of revenge.

    And I personally am tired of people like Dick Smith. I would love to make him look really, really stupid.

    • hempenearth

      Dick Smith believed a report from an individual who did a brief desk top study of some information available from the internet. From memory it concluded the 1MW plant was a fraud and said power was probably being supplied through the ground wire. The recent third party report from a team of seven highly qualified eye witnesses(to the hot cat) stated that the ground wire was disconnected. In my opinion it is “really stupid” to believe the former.

      • Roger Bird

        It is a matter of just how much trust is wise, and how much is unwise. And some people are deeply and passionately hung-up on their reasoning powers and other people’s reports be damned. You trust the eye-witnesses and a social climate in which they wouldn’t all be lying and would have their careers flushed if they were lying or mistaken. Dick Smith trusts the theories that say it is impossible. I trust the PhDs who would have their lives ruined if they were mistaken or lying, and they know it. I say that there must be something wrong with the theory; perhaps all kinds of things could be the problem. LENR fans say a lot of things about the dominant paradigm nuclear theory, but what Ed Storms said is my favorite, something like the hot-fusionists are ***trying*** to rape the Coulomb Barrier. LENR researchers are ***succeeding*** in seducing the Coulomb Barrier.

        • psi

          Great quote.

        • Omega Z

          +2

        • winebuff

          +2

    • psi

      I was never impressed by Dick Smith. He is a guy who likes to grab the limelight. He is not a serious thinker of any kind.

      • Roger Bird

        I think that such exceedingly stubborn/hard headed people can be very annoying. They tend to be insensitive and think that facts are more important than feelings. It takes a lot of courage to explore the unknown and try things that don’t fit inside the box. It take no courage to be a debunker.

        (:->) I am looking forward to your next post, psi. Does your handle stand for “pounds per square inch” or ‘psychology’ or ‘psychosis’ or what? Did you decipher my picture?

        • Omega Z

          I is a farm boy.

  • Roger Bird

    Perhaps he was too busy going for the $1 trillion prize. I don’t know. Ask his wife; she is the business partner.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Roger Bird….Climate Change……You don’t see the difference between a few scientists denying LENR to save their jobs and overwhelming numbers of scientist who have done the research saying climate change is real and man made? Here is the third reference I have given you, again citing huge numbers of experts in the field of climate change, Roger, I generally like your posts, but you are on the wrong side of this one.
    http://www.ipcc.ch/meetings/session20/final-report.pdf
    http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?recordid=05192010
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

    • Roger Bird

      A few scientist denying LENR??? You must be kidding. Just about every scientist on Planet Earth will deny LENR, probably close to none because they are worried about their jobs but because it does not fit the dominant paradigm. So, try again.

      And all of these links that you so kindly present are ALL dependent thinking (not the people associated with the links but your giving them to me.) I don’t care how many scientist believe in AGW. I did mention before that 100% (I may be exaggerating here) of all scientists disbelieved in continental drift in 1931 and sneered at the name Alfred Wegener. By 1966, 100% of all scientists believed in continental drift and wanted to put up monuments to Alfred Wegener. In fact, in Germany they did name an institute after him.

      So your presentation of large numbers of scientist saying that AGW is true means zip. I can name 31,487 American scientists who don’t believe in AGW, at http://www.petitionproject.org/ Such appeals to authority are meaningless, unless one is a dependent thinker. So, I am confused how you got here, Bernie.

      • Andrew Macleod

        Sorry Roger I have done no research into AGW but the weather where I live has changed dramaticly over the past ten years. Previously we used to get 2-3M of snow in the winter with banks so high you can’t see cars behind them, every year we get more mid winter melts and less accumulation even rain. I don’t think the banks were over 3 feet tall this year. The creek behind my house used to house many many frogs (you could hear them), they are gone now and not just from by my house, talking with some remote natives(1000km away) on a business trip yielded the same concern about the missing frogs. Frogs are very vulnerable to climate change and pollution and an important part of the food chain. Yes we could be on a natural warming cycle but there’s no doubt that mankind is contributing to the warming as well.

        • Roger Bird

          No one doubts that the climate is changing and is always changing. And no one doubts that pollution sucks. Some of the questions are: How much is CO2 contributing to this climate change. Most AGW-denialists (like me) say that CO2 contributes about 1% of the warming. Most AGW-advocates say that CO2 . . . OMG, it’s the end of the world!!!!!! (:->)

          There is also the question of whether the changing climate is necessarily a bad thing. Some say yes; some say no. I say, “adapt”.

          Frogs have been around for hundreds of millions of years longer than mammals. They have been through times of high CO2 and low temperatures, high CO2 and high temperatures, low CO2 and low temperatures, and low CO2 and high temperatures. As a group, they will adapt. But as to pollution, they haven’t been through that, and I don’t want to put them through it. I am quite certain that pollution sucks, and kills, and maims. Pollution in all of it’s forms will be our lead pipes.

          But, small groups of any animals in localized niches will die, and some will thrive elsewhere, and snow may come or not come. We need to adapt, not bitch about it and think that we can control the weather.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    I’m inclined to agree with Italo R. that it should be possible to achieve high COP by controlling the reactor’s cooling actively. I wouldn’t be surprised if AR actually has such reactors, but preferred to give simpler steel tube reactors to third party testing to keep the tests simpler and to keep some industrial secrets to himself for the time being. AR doesn’t directly say that Italo is wrong.

  • Barry

    Cold Fusion is a fascinating ongoing story with its share of heroes and villains. Some researchers have swam against the current and paid the price. For what ever reason some have thwarted and blocked the advancement of CF even though it would alter the world as we know it. Oddly enough it seems other physicist are the greatest obstructionist, namely the hot fusion, highly funded (20 billion) “we’ll have it in twenty years,” variety. History will not be kind to the obstructionists.
    I can only imagine what Rossi has run up against. If he pulls this off he deserves the Nobel on a number of levels.

    • Roger Bird

      50 years, not 20 years. The figure keeps getting larger.

      • Invy

        How else are the supposed to express the urgency for hot fusion funding if they dont tell the politicians the utopia is being delayed!

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Haha. I googled “I was a global warmist…”, and google finished the sentence “for the money.”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VWVXarkPOAo#!

      • Omega Z

        Money is the Planck Constant in the Global Warming Debate.

        Remove the Money & the Equation falls apart.

  • lenrdawn

    “Nonetheless we are making good working plants.”

    … which, strangely, nobody seems to buy. Even the one supposedly delivered by now was going to his secret US partner and not to a customer, wasn’t it? I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t be authorized to even tell you whether it arrived but apparently was authorized to post pictures of when it was sent. Browsing backwards through the archives, one finds that Rossi claimed as early as November 2011 that he sold a plant to an undisclosed, non-military US-customer:

    Andrea Rossi
    November 28th, 2011 at 6:48 PM
    Dear Herb Gills:
    Today we sold in the USA a 1 MW plant which will go to a normal Customer. This installation will be visitable by the qualified public.
    We wait to have completed the contractual procedure through the attorneys, then we will give communication. It will be in the North East of the USA, where I have been in these days.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Barry

      From Methusela below “You must also be aware, Frank, that George and others have a continuous competition to see who lasts the longest on your site. I think that George’s “lenrdawn” has probably lasted the longest so far!” Is this true lenrdawn or is it George?

      • Barry

        Hmm… a slithering silence.

        • lenrdawn

          I’m in Europe and therefore usually in bed when this place comes alive. Anyway – what do you want me to say? I’m not mary yugo? You believe what you want.

          • fortyniner

            Personally, I do believe you. Your comments tend to be skeptical, but occasionally verge on the constructive – which is not Hody’s style at all.

            I have another ID in mind as the current Hody infestation on this blog.

            • Roger Bird

              Me, me, is it me?

              • fortyniner

                Sorry, Roger – you don’t reach quite the same heights.

          • Roger Bird

            I never thought that you were lenrdawn. I don’t read maryyugo much, deliberately, but I don’t think that someone whose handle is “LENR dawn” would be the notorious maryyugo. That is sort of stupid. That would be like a chaste nun having the handle “pleasephuckme”. LOL at my own jokes.

            And the content of your posts aren’t even close. Just because you don’t buy Rossi hook-line-and-sinker but do accept LENR automatically makes you not maryyugo.

          • Barry

            lenrdawn what is Methusala talking about. I would hate to think I accused somebody of being mary yago who wasn’t.

    • Jim

      “I can’t imagine”

      Thank goodness reality is not limited to what single individuals are able to imagine.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      From what I can remember, that same plant has been upgraded a few times with new technology. I was speculated that this partner is the US military, possibly the Navy.

      You really can’t say he hasn’t sold more of those 1 MW plants. Rossi is probably not telling us everything that goes on with the plants.

      Also, I still regard the reactors as being in development, so it would make sense not to sell to many of them.

    • KD

      From selling to delivery it might take long time. Especially,
      when some new design need redesign the machinery.
      You can understand this if you would work in machinery building business.

  • Methusela

    I see, that my comment didn’t get through the admin filter, admin 😉

    Shame really. Shows what kind of a person Hody is!

    • Methusela

      There is an interesting thread where George Hody talks about getting banned from ecatnews (the link is not safe for work) and people have a mass scoff and sneer.

      I wish admin would stop deleting these links, how else are we supposed to understand how one of the snakes operates?

      This is my last attempt at posting them, Frank.

      You must also be aware, Frank, that George and others have a continuous competition to see who lasts the longest on your site. I think that George’s “lenrdawn” has probably lasted the longest so far!

      • Roger Bird

        Doesn’t lenrdawn believe in LENR, just not Rossi so much?

      • Andrew Macleod

        Who cares. When the dust settles people will see them as untrustworthy and fools.

        • Roger Bird

          I think that people are keeping lists in order to make sure that skeptopaths are pointed out and shamed. I hope that no list makers over-state their descriptions. Just because someone is a skeptic (disbeliever) doesn’t make them a skeptopath (a skeptic who refuses to look at the evidence). Just because someone is a skeptopath does not make them an a55hole (a rude and malicious skeptopath).

          • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

            if uninformed or disinformed, on could treat people who maintain the consensus position (all is fraud, debunked, errors) as victims…

            If informed, like when we send the data, there is no excuse, beyond the minimal skepticism of someone prudent (“it seems true, but be careful”).

            When someone informed a little on the subject says that SURE it is false. it is pathologic. the only reasonable position is “probably false”.

            when better informed, the rational even biased position might be from “maybe true”, to “probably true” at worst.
            when well informed, it is from “sure with some improbable risk” to “no more possible to doubt”.

            of course I talk for LENR science… for Rossi, Defkalion, it is normal business kind of uncertainty… yet there are many circumstantial evidence that let no real doubt.
            the test of rossi not being the best evidence among. circumstantial evidence are often more solid than clear evidence.

            to understand how the doubt is irrational, read that wiki-rejected document by jed, and tell me that there is possibility to say “sure it is false”.
            http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/293wikipedia.html

            • Andrew Macleod

              Unfortunatly that link didn’t work for me. But I understand what you were saying. Being a critical thinker one cannot deal in absolutes, and when being a critic you must leave room for objectivity.

      • fortyniner

        ‘Alp’ is lasting quite well. The secret may be keeping the sniping to a relatively low level.

        • Roger Bird

          Alp has a perfect right to disbelieve. I presume that he has looked at the evidence. If not, then he does not have a perfect right to disbelieve.

        • Pedro

          Isn’t it funny… these guys have to ‘behave’ in order to not expose themselves as tr0lls and the end effect is that they add in a positive way (being critical) to the discussion. I love that!!!

          • fortyniner

            It must be very frustrating for them. It’s just so much simpler when you can bang on endlessly about Petrodragon and hidden wires.

            • AB

              Maryyugo still regularly cites Krivit’s naked eye steam estimation, while reaffirming in every other paragraph that the Levi paper is worthless. Haha.

              Applying some of his skepticism to his own beliefs would do him good.

  • Jack

    I want to share an email exchange I had with an expert on alternate energy Steve Harris. The main stream world is not yet ready to accept LENR. Notice how long it took him to reply, received today 16-June.

    ======================================

    it all BULLCRAP…

    Steve

    On Thu, 16 May 2013 07:50:04 -0400, wrote:

    Hi Steve,

    Have you been following the development of LENR?
    It may be a hoax but they are starting delivery of a 1MW LENR plant.

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/05/ecat-com-updates-website/

    I don’t know quit what it is but they have something.

    The links in the comments are also interesting.

    • Methusela

      Who is Steve Harris?

    • http://www.kaltefusion.tk/blog barty

      Your biggest mistake was to mention Rossi.

      Write him another email where you show him the links to the EU Parliament slides from 3rd of june.
      Especially the SRI and Naval Research Lab slides.

      If he then still says it’s crap…ignore him, but save his mails and remember his name in a few years…

    • Bento

      I had the same reaction from Vincent M.,Head of fusion research unit, of SCK*CEN(Studiecentrum voor Kernenergie, Mol, Belgium)
      He mentioned research by Jean Alain Pinston, published in 1971, can be googled, his work is mentioned on worldcat.

  • Stew

    Maybe the “dirt plays” are of the same quality as the “death threads”. It all sounds a bit paranoid to me.

    • fortyniner

      Just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean that ‘they’ are not out to get you (as the old saw goes).

      • Roger Bird

        True, but IF you are paranoid, you are more likely to select and arrange the data to fit your paranoia.

        • fortyniner

          So – Rossi is imagining the ‘dirt plays’ as he refers to them, and everyone in the nuclear and oil industries, and all those on the hot fusion welfare fund, wish him only speedy success?

          • Roger Bird

            I actually was talking in general about how paranoia works, and how I see your attitudes. Obviously, some people are being persecuted/pestered.

            It applies to all attitudes. Whatever you believe to be true will become true for you. If you relate to the world with gratitude, then you will be happier than someone who relates to the world with resentment or anxiety or whatever negative emotion.

            I think that Rossi was referring to Krivit and Defkalion, not Exxon-Mobil.

            • GreenWin

              Methinks Rog has gotten into the Wayne Dyer apertif.

              A good thing Rog.

              • Roger Bird

                Such understanding of how the mind works, or how we can control our minds, was not invented by Wayne Dyer, who I just now had to look up. It is as old as the hills. I often wake up and say to myself, “I am going to be positive (or grateful or detached or considerate) today”, first thing before my feet hit the floor.

                • fortyniner

                  Interesting. Personally I am unable to form a coherent thought before my second cup of coffee in the morning. No wonder I’m not all of the things I’d ideally like to be (or should that be ‘any’).

    • Jim

      Rossi made his down payment on his right to be paranoid with PetroDragon. He keeps the subscription active with the help of e-Cat skeptopaths. Their actions in turn are likely the tip of the iceberg of a wide assortment hostile actions, the perpetrators of which have every reason to keep as hidden as possible.

      Or do we think that industrial competition does not sometimes involve false regulatory filings, nuisance lawsuits, espionage, sabotage and worse?

      Or do we think that the e-Cat has not stimulated industrial competition?

      Cause and effect…

  • Martin Leonard

    David Cameron promises £1m ‘Longitude Prize’ for big ideas
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22892443
    Could be a great launch for Rossi’s new fire.

    • fortyniner

      Cameron playing at being Britain’s answer to Dick Smith.

      Incidentally, still no reply from the UK Dept of Energy, or from Energy Minister Fallon, following my enquiries about their knowledge of LENR developments. So much for open government. One more to go (Fallon’s boss) then I’ll try a FOI request.

    • Alp

      Rossi had a chance to grab the million dollar prize from Dick Smith. Smith even would have allowed Kullander and Essen to do the test. Why did he not do that?

      • Roger Bird

        Perhaps he was too busy going for the $1 trillion prize. Perhaps he wants to punk disrespectful people. I don’t know. Ask his wife; she is the business boss.

      • fortyniner

        Why don’t you tell us again, Alp?

        No, on second thoughts – half a dozen times has probably been enough.

      • GreenWin

        Since we are commenting on Alp’s tautological dependency, let’s revisit Smith’s Belwilderforce Prize of $1M, which to date he has failed to pay out.

    • Deleo77

      It’s definitely paranoid and I don’t think it helps Rossi’s cause to talk like that. I truly don’t believe that anyone is trying to stop him. Even if everything he says is true, he has a very experimental technology that is in its infancy, and he doesn’t yet have any customers or products people can even see out in the marketplace.

      I do think it is possible that some of the people with ITER and hot fusion have gone out there and knocked Rossi around in some forums, perhaps because they see cold fusion as a threat to hot fusion research money, but the result is not that people think he is evil or doing something terrible, it’s just that people don’t take him seriously. It is up to him to change that.

      • Roger Bird

        I know what you mean. Perhaps he feels all alone with the greatest discovery in the history of the world. I would. I would be saying all day everyday, “Why me?”.

        If we can make him feel less alone, then perhaps that is a big help.

        • GreenWin

          +1

          • Roger Bird

            “The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don’t know anything about.”
            Wayne Dyer

            He’s has really catchy quotes. Sort of applies to a lot of people these days, including me with all my opinions about everything. (:->)