On Spreading Awareness (ECW Video Project)

Since the publication of the 3rd party E-Cat report I feel like an important milestone has been reached in the history of LENR/Cold Fusion. Not only have qualified and impartial scientists put a firm stamp of approval on the E-Cat, but they have validated a technology that is clearly able to produce energy in quantities and efficiencies high enough to be useful.

It feels to me like a page has turned, and a new era is here, yet the world is largely unaware of this important event. I’d like to play a part in helping people understand that there is something important going on that could benefit countless lives all over the world — and I know there are many others who have been following this story who feel the same. What we are dealing with here is not just another cool gadget, or an incremental improvement on an already existing technology. It’s something fundamentally new, which can be used to improve lives everywhere.

Recently we have added two new pages to this site: What is LENR? and 3rd Party E-Cat Test Report, with a hope to provide new readers with material that will help bring them up to speed on what is going on. I hope readers here will feel free to direct people to these pages and other resources on the web that you think are useful.

I have read of people writing emails to people in key decision making positions about the recent E-Cat report. Others are talking to friends and acquaintances. A friend of mine told me that he has been invited to a reception where the prime minister of a major world power will be present, and if he gets a chance to talk to the PM he will ask him to keep an eye on the Rossi guys.

E-cat World Video Project

I have an idea about making a video that includes some key facts about LENR and the recent E-Cat test report — and I’d also like to include is some comments from people around the world who have knowledge of technology. If anyone here is interested in participating in this video project, here’s what I would ask:

  • Shoot a short clip of yourself talking about LENR/E-Cat/Cold Fusion (30 seconds max). The audience for this video is the general public, not science experts. Act naturally!
  • Try and ensure video and audio quality are reasonably good quality.  Acceptable video formats are .MOV, .MPEG4, .AVI, .WMV, .MPEGPS, .FLV, 3GPP, WebM
  • Send the clip to me via email: [email protected] including information that you would like to be identified by, such as name, location, profession. Please include at least a first name.
  • If your remarks are not in English, please provide the text of what you say so we can translate and add subtitles.

We can’t guarantee that all submissions will be included (I have no idea what the response to this will be), and submitted clips may be edited. It might take a while to put this together, but it could be an effective way to share information.

Anyway, that’s just one idea of mine. There are plenty of others out there, I’m sure. Events may move quite quickly, so a good plan one day might be a bit outdated the next. Nevertheless I feel like it’s important to spread awareness — if you have some good ideas, please share them!

  • LENR.FTW

    I updated “Are Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Devices Real?” to reflect the experimental results and conclusions presented by SRI, ENEA, SKINR and NRL at the European Parliament conference.

    The case for LENR just got stronger. LENR+ too. They report maximum COPs in some of the experiments well into LENR+ territory, including 25 and 40. Hopefully some more details will come out. I wonder if maximum COP means some instantaneous reading or if that’s the overall COP for the experiment. If it’s the latter, WOW.

    Comments welcome.

    https://sites.google.com/site/lenrforthewin/updates/updatedlenr-sciencearelenrdevicesreal

    • AB

      I wonder if maximum COP means some instantaneous reading or if that’s the overall COP for the experiment. If it’s the latter, WOW.

      It’s probably the latter. COP in these documents usually refers to overall output / overall input because it’s more meaningful (the output is quite variable as you can see from the graph). Plus the other text box reads “total excess energy = 44.3 kJ”.

      It’s impressive, but Rossi also claimed a COP of 200 in an early experiment. It’s the need for stability that forces compromises to be made which reduce the COP.

      • AlainCo

        COP is not structural to LENR.
        it is like the COP of a barbecue, a gas furnace, a nuclear reactor… some energy is needed at some moment to help the reaction and manage it’s stability and safety…

        Defkalion for example explain that the first day they have to warm the reactor and make it run in stable cyclic mode (quite like e-cat) , and that the day after the COP is amazing…
        They explained that beside the heating of the reactor, they just add pulse of plasm consuming few dozen of joule every few dozen of minute, producing few kW of heat…
        Of course pump and control consume energy, but COP above 10 seems rational with a warm reactor.
        above 10, you can easily assume that like a nuclear powerplant or a classic coal plant, the electricity it produce is much more than the one it consume.

        and with better control of the reaction, maybe it can work with very few energy to trigger the reaction…

    • Barry

      Mitchell Swartz claims a COP of 80 (for thity minutes) with the latest NANOR.

  • andreiko

    De verschillen van de economische concurrentie en wetenschappelijke achterstand die men oploopt, bij het traag of niet reageren ten opzichte van e-cat gebruikers,zal dodelijk zijn voor de niet gebruikers.

    Daarom zal in mijn visie,de e-cat, ongekend snel,deel gaan nemen aan alles waar energie een rol speelt.

  • georgehants

    Giza Death Star
    The Website of Dr. Joseph P. Farrell
    ROSSI’S COLD FUSION REACTOR VERIFIED: SOME SPECULATIONS ON A SUPPRESSION, PART TWO
    In fact, the first one to do so (that I’m aware of) was Nazi scientist Dr. Ronald Richter, who claims to have observed similar phenomena in plasma experiments in Germany… in 1936! (see my The Nazi International, pp. 260-261, 293-294, see also p. 321 for his reference to the use of iridium and rhodium). Richter was doing it all: rotating plasmas, magnetic fields, plasma shock waves and metal lattices (iridium and rhodium), but most importantly, he anticipated in general outline the LANR or lattice-assisted theory by some decades, because as he was attempting to explain his ideas to a (very) skeptical scientific public in Argentina, he indicated that the basis of his energy anomaly, in his opinion, was some sort of resonant or transductive effect with the local lattice structure – he called it a “cellular” structure – in space-time itself.
    http://gizadeathstar.com/2013/06/rossis-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-some-speculations-on-a-suppression-part-two/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CommentsForGizaDeathStar+%28Comments+for+Giza+Death+Star%29#comment-32579

  • Omega Z
  • artefact

    The rest of the pictures from the EU meeting is now online:
    http://22passi.blogspot.it/

    “Naval Research Lab: Access heat event with chemical addition Ni/Al2O3, NiSO4 magnetic material: ~ 40x gain
    ..”


    Conclusions:
    Four major research institutions confirm the reality of anomalous heat in electrochemical and gas systems (ENEA, Stanford Research International, University of Missouri, NRL)

    • khawk

      Such good news! Looks like the gains are still in the 10s of watts but significantly beyond chemical only means. So glad to see electrolytic AND gas-charged listed as viable as well. P&F are going to deserve an international holiday naming before this is all over.

    • Roger Bird

      “Stanford Research International”. There is no such place. It is called “SRI International” The “SRI” used to mean what you said, but no more. It’s legal name is “SRI International”.

      • artefact

        I just typed what was on the last slide of Graham K. Hubler

  • Omega Z

    By Attrition.

    I Just bought an IPOD Sport Coup. It gets 40MPG.
    Unbeknownst to me, Tomorrow Morning SAMSUNG 🙂 Introduces the New Samsung Ramada 1000. It gets 80MPG.

    Am I going to run out & buy it. NOPE!

    Fact, I just bought the IPOD Coup with double the mileage of my old car.
    Consider the Mileage gains of the Ramada & the loses(My new car just depreciated by obsolescence) I’m better off driving my IPOD Coup to it’s life-cycle or near too.. Besides. All those who are still in the car buying market are buying the 80MPG models. Less fuel demand will cause Gas to drop. I save more then planed.

    Utilities are no different. ANY projects beyond a certain point will continue as planned. You can’t put the World on pause. Life goes on.

    The Next step would be to ramp up as quick as possible to Build new Systems with the LENR technology. Not to replace the old, but to keep up with new energy demands. This will take a while. Likely years. You have to remember we are starting from scratch with an as yet unproven technology. Unproven as in a stable, dependable track record. They will proceed with caution.

    Only when proven dependable & all New Energy demands are met will they start replacing the Old Fossil plants. Only as they reach the end of their life-cycle.

    And to note, A Utility who has a Fossil energy plant that costs 6 to 8 cents per kilowatt & a LENR Plant that costs 1 cent, This will be Averaged cost just as they presently do with wind & solar. You savings will be passed along gradually. Better then the a fore mentioned where Averaged costs increase.

    I’ll skip the Financial limitations & point out the more tangible Resources. The Real ones. The facilities that need built, The raw resources, metals & such that take time to produce. New Generators, Turbines & all the little extras that will likely need re-Engineered for optimal operations. Facilities that will have to retool away from the obsolete to the new products.

    This will not be quick. It will be generational as in several decades.
    When it becomes known publicly to the masses, It may cause some financial hi-cups, but then things will quickly return to normal.

    It’ll be like a Mega Earthquake. Exciting while it’s happening, but after it’s over, you get on with life. It’ll take time.

    • Mick D

      I agree. Utilities will run existing plants to end of life, or until fuel costs justify closing or retrofit of those plants. For new plants, they will opt for familiar technology vs new, risky technology.
      However, with mandated CO2 limits the equation changes. Will utilities choose NG plants vs cheaper coal with (risky) carbon capture / storage (CCS)? Or cheaper coal with 25% risky LENR as an offset to CO2?
      Once some LENR is fielded and proven the balance shifts to LENR. However , fossil fuel costs could drop extending its life. It will surely be a long transition.

      • Roger Bird

        I think that you are all wrong. I think that utilities will see how cheap E-Cats are and how Rossi has so nicely made the E-Cat fit so nicely into that flanged do-hickey, and they will see that they can retrofit each fossil fuel heater with LENRs. In fact, they could put a couple of E-Cats through the walls of the boiler and run it that way while continuing to use coal or gas just to see how it works. Then if it works, they could just drill a few more holes in the wall and put a few more flanged do-hickey E-cats and depend less and less on the fossil fuel input, and finally just do away with the fossil fuel input altogether. It does not seem to me to be rocket science. And the utility could do one boiler at a time. They won’t have to replace the boiler at all. The fact that there might be a coal bed or gas outlets beneath the boiler is of no consequence.

        When an E-Cat needs servicing, they just cool everything down. Remove the E-Cat. Stuff the nickel and catalyst into it, replace it, and restart it. No biggie.

        • Mick D

          Roger
          I hope you are right. But most utilities have only a weak cost savings incentive because costs are passed on to customers.
          On new plants they pay attention to cost, on old plants not so much.
          A few things might get their attention. 1 – regulation, as in CO2 limits. 2 – loss of customers, for instance if people begin going off grid in droves (more than just readers of this blog). 3 – public opinion and I’m sure others.
          BTW if a utility wants to order 10,000 e-cats they can specify a round, square, oval flange or even hose clamps. The US partner will design a heat transfer method that is installation specific.

          • Roger Bird

            Mick D, not all utilities are for profit. I live in a not-for-profit utility district, and if I tell my friend in California that I pay $40 for my utilities and he pays $300 for utilities to Pacific Gas & Electric Company, there could be some questions written it flames sent to California Public Utilities Commission.

        • Omega Z

          I agree with a lot of your posts Roger, But this time I have to disagree. From what Rossi has said, the E-cat will require a double transfer.

          E-cat to Oil transferring heat to water. I believe this has to do with the Heat quenching that’s been talked about on other Websites.

          However, considering many of the facilities in the U.S. have been designed for change over for Oil, NG, & Coal depending on price fluctuations I can’t totally rule it out. Depends on the footprint.

          And to Note, Rossi has been informed that Zero change outs will happen at Nuclear plants because those systems are already contaminated. I know. That’s not a fossil plant.

          • fortyniner

            Omega

            Your objection is valid, but there are probably simple engineering methods that can bypass 2-stage transfer.

            We saw the prototype ‘gas cat’ sitting on the floor at Rossi’s R&D place. It is clearly a ‘fire tube’ with a CF reactor surrounding the gas burning tubular combustion chamber. It seems entirely possible that this technology is being designed as an intermediate step on the way to fully CF-powered boilers.

            Such a ‘hybrid’ unit could overcome quenching problems by maintaining a reduced level of internal gas firing, the reduction in gas requirement obviously being proportional to extra heat produced by the surrounding CF reactor. Such units might be configured to exactly match existing burner tube designs so that they could be fitted into standard gas fired boiler models.

            Introduction of CF would therefore reduce gas consumption in installed gas boilers by some factor (say 50%) would therefore allow a relatively painless (for the operators) route for operators to upgrade. No ‘step-change’ – just a gradual changeover as boilers become due for overhaul anyway.

            • Omega Z

              Peter

              Just speculating here, Rossi has implied that heating Oil that heats the water/steam output. This actually occurred to me as a possible necessity when he 1st presented the H-Cat.

              The Oil would be acting as a heat sink providing stable steam output during the H-Cats on/off modes.

              This would be necessary for stable turbine speed & Electrical output. I believe Rossi stated they can maintain temp with a + – 5%.
              This situation/requirement would null any quenching discussion.

              That said, I think the boiler would have to be purpose built for the H-cat & if for no other reason would be Regulations. Then it all comes down to the physical footprint & regulatory requirements.

              It’s very likely the Cat could be built to function with most/all turbines at least in the U.S. as most were designed for variable fuels. But a design specific to the H-Cat would optimize performance/efficiency.

              Actually, building from a micro-grid view would void this topic as they would be built ground up H-cat specific.

              Which says that, though we all Post about micro-grids/distributed power Etc, We all know deep down the existing grid will continue for the foreseeable future. 🙁

              NOTE: The above situation would change our COP calculations.

              No longer 35/65. It would be 35/100
              Input 35% of the time.
              10Kwh output 100% of the time. 🙂

      • B Wyatt

        I think the best solution would be to have each household responsible for their energy and waste removal. Think of it, the ecat (home version) would supply heat, cooling, electricity and power for high efficiency composting toilets and water purification (reuse grey water). No more mass blackouts, nuclear accidents etc. and wastewater plants would have less environmental impact. The remaining hydro/ wind/ solar can be subsidized for industrial use until their lifespans are reached, then they too can be converted.

        • Roger Bird

          The best part of that is that when people are faced with their own waste they get real about spending and consumerism. They have to take responsibility for themselves. What a concept!!!

      • Omega Z

        The Fossil fuels have a bottom price & could never compete with LENR. However they will be around for a long time. Oil, NG, & Coal are all heavily used in the steel process & Because of how it’s used, LENR & Electricity will ever replace it.

        I know a company that spent several years trying to replace some of it’s natural gas use with electricity. After producing over half a million in scrap metal they gave it up. They spared no costs. They had some of the best researchers in the world working on it.

        • Mick D

          I believe it. Retrofit is never easy.

        • Tom59

          An existing boiler cannot be equipped with LENR tubes – this would be a new development. There is pressure involved requiring to follow strict security rules for good reasons. But the development can rely on existing building principles – so it is doable.

        • Tom59

          An existing boiler cannot be equipped with LENR tubes – this would be a new development. There is pressure involved requiring to follow strict security rules for good reasons. But the development can rely on existing building principles – so it is doable.

    • NJT

      Omega, your “balanced logic” makes good sense to me. As always, the markets for (nuclear, coal , gas, solar, LENR or whatever produces the required result at the least expense) will ultimately be the result we consumers will bear.

    • fortyniner

      I also agree that utilities will not be in a hurry to close their centralised stations in order to replace them with distributed resources. Where I disagree is that this is necessarily a bar to widespread and rapid adoption of cold fusion power.

      The main grid load is taken in many countries by conventional gas fired steam turbine generators, often multiple relatively small units of about 5-20MW output each running in synchronised sets. Similar units are used extensively in industry to provide power and/or steam.

      The boilers of such units are replaced regularly as corrosion and fatigue impair efficiency and safety. If equivalent CF boilers can be developed that are ‘drop in’ replacements for standard models, then this will be a natural route for introduction. Once any one utility or industry sector begins replacing old gas boilers with gas-fired CF equivalents the market will expand geometrically.

      Other than that, I don’t think there will me much of an earthquake, just an overnight sensation in the press, and then all quiet again as the next celeb headline takes hold. CF will be adopted, and at some point it will be seen as the normal means of making heat, but the benefits to the average oik will be cumulative at best, minimal at worst, as the cartels will ensure that cost savings add to their bottom lines and are not distributed. I think it is likely that CF will be controlled withing enforced monopolies for a decade at the very least.

      BTW Omega, I can get (with a very light foot, admittedly) 40mpg from the 18 year old Peugeot convertible I use as my day-to-day car in the summer. My daughter gets 65mpg from her 6 year old Toyota. Progress is incremental.

      • fortyniner

        Of course, I think you are in the US, where your gallons are (unusually!) smaller than UK ‘imperial’ gallons, so 40 (US) mpg for a ‘sporty’ production car is quite impressive.

  • georgehants

    Scientific American
    Scientists: do outreach or your science dies.
    Scientists, here’s the bottom line. If you don’t convince the public that your science matters, your funding will quickly vanish and so will your field. Put another way, the era of outreach being optional for scientists is now over.
    Researchers have been able to cloister within an academic ivory tower – conducting their research without paying much attention to what’s going on in the wider world – only because there has been a relatively stable funding base for science. Governmental sources have been vital to that funding base, particularly for basic research where the government picks up most of the tab.
    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2013/06/04/scientists-do-outreach-or-your-science-dies/

    • Roger Bird

      I love astronomy. Astronomy is also a great lesson in the scientific method. I always love to read about the latest astronomical finding. But for the life of me I just can’t understand why it is important that those two galaxies over there, right above the trees, are colliding.

      Astronomy is mostly entertainment, as is a lot of science. Don’t get me wrong. I like entertainment. But is it important. Wouldn’t it be more important to get fresh water to someone who needed it?

      • NJT

        +10

      • Pekka Janhunen

        By the two galaxies colliding, I guess you mean Andromeda and Milky Way?

        • Roger Bird

          I mean let’s get down to practical cases. I never miss an astronomy article; I love them all. Astronomy has taught us a lot, including calculus (or forced us to learn calculus), but I don’t see a lot of learning anything of a practical value anymore. I see highly entertaining and impractical stuff.

      • HHiram

        Without astronomy we wouldn’t have spectroscopy or interferometry (both have crucial medical applications), we wouldn’t have GPS, we wouldn’t be able to predict space and solar weather events (crucial for telecommunications), and we wouldn’t have satellites (crucial for telecommunications, geography, geology, seismology, meteorology, and of course national defense). Astronomy also confirms major features of physics, such as special and general relativity, which all modern electronic and computer technologies depend on.

        Sorry, but only scientifically illiterate people think astronomy or any other type of science is “mostly entertainment”.

        • dandelion

          I completely agree.
          Astronomy is, probably, one of the most important sciences in the history of mankind, it sparked the imagination of man during all the ages and has been crucial for many of the advances in science and calculus.

          • Roger Bird

            How many advances in Calculus have happened in the past 150 years because of astronomy?

            • dandelion

              There is pretty much a lot of math beeing created to support the physics models of the Black Holes. 😉

              • Roger Bird

                This is true. But I cannot see any value in the study of black holes per se. (little joke) Nothing of value can come out of it. (little joke)

        • Roger Bird

          Did I say anywhere that we should do away with astronomy? I said that it was mostly entertainment. I cannot remember a single article in astronomy lately that I have read that covered any of the issues that you listed. All of the important things that we need now that you listed were discovered decades and centuries ago. And knowing that XYZ42 is a planet 9 times bigger than Jupiter and goes around it’s star in 81 days is entertainment.

        • Roger Bird

          “Sorry, but only scientifically illiterate people think astronomy or any other type of science is “mostly entertainment”.” All of those things that you mentioned were developed or happened long ago. GPS is also a done deal. I am not proposing that we do away with astronomy, but what has astronomy done for me recently, besides employ boffins in very remote places like on the tops of mountains in the Atacama desert. It is not a matter of scientific literacy; it is a matter of perspective, values, and practicality.

          What have they done for me recently? Knowing that there are millions of planets in the Milky Way Galaxy is very interesting, but I already assumed that fact given the mechanics of solar system development, and we won’t visiting those planet any time soon, if EVER. And how much do those telescopes cost vs. supplying water to desperate people in Senegal.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Without astronomers we wouldn’t know that a large comet is currently in near collision course with Mars (http://spaceobs.org/en/tag/c2013-a1-siding-spring/) and there is a small chance of an actual hit in October 2014. If it hits (whose likelihood is less than 1:1000 now), our sister planet gets a new 500 km crater and the planet’s surface might melt globally when dense evaporated rock vapour from the crater engulfs the planet destroying everything which is there. Some of the ejecta might also reach us in the following decades.

            The universe is playing a slow Russian roulette with us. If we let things run their natural course, sooner or later the bullet is there and our game is over. However, we could also decide otherwise, we could develop technology to deflect dangerous objects.

            • Roger Bird

              Interesting, and it might actually have some practical value. Again, I say over and over, I love astronomy. I read everything that I can get my hands on in astronomy. I know as much as the next amateur. I am not proposing that we shut down astronomy. But it’s practical value is greatly over-rated, and I wonder why we have these ultra-expensive observatories in remote regions of the world when there are people dying from starvation, drought, mass murder, etc. etc. etc. I am not actually saying that we shouldn’t have these ultra-expensive and powerful telescopes in remote regions and should be spending that money on desalination plants in West Africa. I am just asking, and I sure want an answer from those who have been opposing what I am saying. How can be justify such an expenditure? Please justify it for me. After all, I am also patronizing astronomy with my tax money and my avid reading of astronomy articles.

              • GreenWin

                Roger, large portions of West Africa, eg Guinea, Cameroon, have up to 120 inches of annual rainfall. Mauritania would be a potential desalination site as it has a large stretch of coastline on the Atlantic.

              • Corpse Callosum

                The flaw in the logic is that no matter how much u give poor people it only makes them dependent. Unfortunately we need to let them figure it out on their own. If we diverted the money spent on telescopes to feed starving people they would produce more starving people. Eventually the money would run out and we’d have a much larger issue.

                • Roger Bird

                  CC, you are almost certainly right. But there are ways that work; just giving it away won’t work. The micro-banking thingie seems to work. But I was thinking more along the line of what we the human race think is important, not just some program.

              • Barry

                Roger, we are in the Golden Age of astronomy, defining a deeper understanding of our universe. I don’t know if entertainment is the right word for it. Also if an asteroid is discovered to be on a collision course say 100 years from now and we can find a way to mildly alter the course, may turn out to be a practical field afterall.

                • Roger Bird

                  Barry, astronomy is certainly in it’s Golden Age for entertainment and for the pocketbooks of the astronomers and mirror makers.

                  I never said that astronomy has no purpose. But an asteroid 100 years away would have a tremendous spread of possible trajectories and predicting that it would hit Earth with any certainty would be impossible.

  • AB

    First information on the Brussels event is coming in. From the looks of it, quite a bit more will be coming:

    http://22passi.blogspot.it/2013/06/new-advancements-on-fleischmann-pons.html

    Most of it should be known to those who have been following the topic closely.

    The researchers are not against Ni-H, but the evidence for Pd/D LENR is much stronger (as in real witohut doubts) than for Ni-H. They are now trying to convince decision about the importance of LENR research.

    One person (who?) is in close contact with Piantelli and is convinced of his results.

    Unfortunately it seems that the INFN has terminated Celani’s LENR research (why?). It appears that attracting attention to one’s LENR research is still risky.

    • AB

      They are now trying to convince decision about the importance of LENR research.

      That should be “decision makers”.

      • Sanjeev

        Anyone know who were present from the side of governments ?
        I still have no clue why this meeting happened in EU parliament.

        • fortyniner

          I mentioned the meeting in an email to the UK Energy Minister and asked whether his dept. is aware of CF developments. Got an acknowledgement this time (the first attempt went into a black hole) and will post any reply.

  • buffalo

    yes but thers only one way to burst out the cycle,replications,concrete replications here,there,everywhere will without a shred of doubt tilt the snowball out of controll.god be with those who are trying to do this as we speak.

    • kasom

      “yes but thers only one way to burst out the cycle,replications,concrete replications here,there,everywhere will without a shred of doubt tilt the snowball out of controll.god be with those who are trying to do this as we speak.”

      —–can you translate Your comment to common english???

      • buffalo

        sure kasom,replications of the rossi effect will ensure success,english enough?

  • frip

    Like all things, systems of government, economics, and yes inventions and progress are cyclical. Unfortunately we are now in a end game cycle of capitalism/free market, leading it to take on more of the appearance of fascism or feudalism. In this segment of the cycle new technology that challenges the basic power structure is not allowed. Large industry owns the government, intellectual community and the media. This is why the news is not disseminated. Hopefully it will eventually get out and break the cycle.

  • GreenWin

    While building a video for Frank, here is another way friends of LENR are contributing to the inevitable introduction of cold fusion to planet Earth (again.) Yesterday this group of people met to hear undoubtedly of the latest verification of E-Cat and how EU will be transitioning (from 22 Passi.)

    Robert Duncan, Prorettore per la ricerca University of Missouri (USA)
    Michael McKubre, SRI – Stanford Research International (USA)
    Graham Hubler, Direttore Sidney Kimmel Institute for Nuclear Renaissance (USA)
    Stefano Concezzi, Vice Presidente National Instruments (USA)
    P.J. King, CEO ReResearch (Ireland))
    Konrad Czerski, Università di Szczecin (Poland), Technische Universität Berlin (Germany)
    Vittorio Violante, Università Roma2 Tor Vergata, Centro Ricerche Frascati ENEA
    Andrea Aparo, Università Roma1 Sapienza, Politecnico di Milano, Ansaldo Energia
    Enrico Paganini, ENEL Green Power
    Antonio La Gatta, Presidente TSEM Engineering and Electronics
    Giovanni Lelli, Commissario ENEA
    Aldo Pizzuto, Responsabile Unità Tecnica Fusione ENEA
    Massimo Busuoli, Responsabile ENEA EU – Liaison Office
    Herbert Von Bose, Direttore sotto-Commissione Industrial Technologies del Parlamento europeo
    Amalia Sartori, Presidente Comissione ITRE del Parlamento europeo

    NOTE: Dr. Andre Aparo from Ansaldo Energia attending. Ansaldo remains the crown jewel bid for by Siemens, Hitachi, Doosan HI, Samsung for ~1.5b Euro. In a spy thriller-type twist Italian Attorney General is prosecuting a crime ring of former Ansaldo employees caught stealing dozens of Ansaldo “trade secrets.” It’s getting messy.

    Here are some not-so-happy utility execs meeting with President Obama last month to hear the news that LENR is going public and they will need to accept it – or learn to make lemonade. 🙂

    https://secure.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/8724226034/in/photostream/lightbox/

    • GreenWin

      One more fascinating tidbit: in Dec 2011, General Electric Co. (GE)’s Sandro De Poli, Italy country head, said Ansaldo Energia, Ansaldo STS SpA (STS) are “extremely interesting” companies.

      Speculation is GE already has a position in Ansaldo Energia via a silent stake with Greenwich CT firm First Reserve (40% owner Ansaldo.)

    • Mick D

      Another explanation of the meeting is to let the Power execs know CEO to CEO about upcoming CO2 restrictions and enlist
      their support. EPA has had proposed limits out for review for a year – one ton per MW-hr electricity. Decision due soon. Also to prepare for lawsuits – from these CEO’s? – Obama is proposing 3 new judges for vacancies on DC appeals court. Maybe he mentioned LENR, as a new technology? Maybe.
      Still, E-Cat is a solution for low CO2 power plants.

    • Roger Bird

      “Here are some not-so-happy utility execs meeting with President Obama last month to hear the news that LENR is going public . . ” This is highly unconfirmed, at best a rumor, a speculation. Obama had a meeting with utility execs about Distributed Energy Sources. Other than that, it is speculation (and perhaps a little wishful thinking) that it was about LENR or Rossi. Let us try to keep our wishful thinking out of this discussion, unless it is labeled as such.

      • Jimr

        You are correct. I’m betting LENR was never mentioned.

      • Sanjeev

        He was obviously joking.
        He could have photoshopped Rossi sitting besides Obama to make it more serious.

      • MStone

        Even if Rossi had his “Bloom Energy” moment tomorrow, and e-cats were running Google server farms, it would take a decade or two decades for e-cat to fully penetrate the energy market. Big oil, Big gas would have plenty of time to adjust.

    • khawk

      Sounds like the Ansaldo CEO / some employees may be getting the same treatment that Rossi received – play ball with those in charge or you’re going to an Italian dungeon for a while.

      • GreenWin

        According to press, these scientists left Ansaldo to work for another company when their research opportunities were curtailed. Sounds to me like someone might have bought a prosecutor to try and hush up these scientists. Now that Ansaldo is a M&A target, the loss of smart players would lower value.

        There is an Italian investor group harshly opposed to sale of this asset. Motive?? A year ago Chief executive of Ansaldo Nucleare Roberto Adinolfi, 53, was shot in the leg by two men on a black Yamaha motorbike in Genoa,

        Where’s Sherlock and Holmes when ya need em??

    • Mick D

      If I were head of marketing for Babcock & Wilcox (or UTC or your candidate for USA partner) I would be pounding on doors for US utilities selling e-cat plants. Offset your coal fired plant with a zero CO2 e-cat plant. Cheap. Now.

      Once a few “offset” plants are installed every utility will want e-cats for the low cost. Forget about low CO2. Cost is the driver.

      • Roger Bird

        “CO2” is a cost. A utility can save a lot of money on PR if they can say that their plant produce zero CO2. The PR would be tremendous.

  • georgehants

    Product Design and Development.
    White House Tries to Encourage High Tech Patents.
    The White House is taking steps to encourage innovation in high tech patents that it calls “a key driver of economic growth.”
    http://www.pddnet.com/news/2013/06/white-house-tries-encourage-high-tech-patents

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      +1

    • GreenWin

      The President and this Administration is doing a good job I think, tracking technical innovation, and supporting the little guy inventor where possible. Hopefully this announcement signals a change in how USPTO handles science once thought “taboo.”

      • Mick D

        Interesting. I haven’t heard of “patent trolls”. But I do know of patent holders that offer their patent as “insurance”. Pay me a small amount and you won’t have to worry about your competitors patent. That could be the same thing.

      • Roger Bird

        I won’t be holding my breath on this one.

  • Sanjeev

    I liked the idea a lot !
    Seeing a person talking about LENR face to face will have more impact than text on internet. Its the human thing.

    I remember someone made a youtube video of his thoughts about the ECat (handle was Hampus ?) and it felt much better and alive than reading a comment from him.

    • georgehants

      Sanjeev, do you not agree that the most Powerful thing that would change the perception of Cold Fusion other than Mr.Rossi naming a customer who would certify and allow inspection of his high output device would be a editorial report in one of the “premier” scientific journals that the general Media governments etc. can take as a pronunciation of it’s validity.
      Until Science reports clearly on the Research, now verified, showing a phenomenon beyond “known science” then this hiatus will continue indefinitely.

      • Sanjeev

        Yes I agree that will help. Still too early for them to act, they are elephants and move slowest. Usually the big change comes from small people. Govts and other establishments then act to save their chairs, that’s all they do really.

    • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

      So far I’ve received one video and it was from Hampus. Keep them coming!

  • georgehants

    Scientific American
    Pandora’s Promise: The Triumph of Hope over Fear in Nuclear Power?
    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2013/06/04/pandoras-promise-the-triumph-of-hope-over-fear-in-nuclear-power/

    • GreenWin

      Five anti-nuke activists switch sides. I see this as Step One of a Two Step recovery program. This documentary film shows how nuclear energy density is far superior to any other resource known. But it tries desperately to justify the radioactive waste problem. Problem is nuclear fission is wildly expensive, subject to meltdown, and produces waste so toxic nobody in the US wants to deal with it.

      This is why all new licensing has been suspended in US until waste issues are addressed. So. Step Two: nuclear energy density without any radiation or *CO2!* Wow! See this film, then read the E-Cat validation from the Italian-Swedish scientists. Problem solved – full recovery.

      “The old adage in the nuclear business is that the best reactor is a paper reactor.”

  • Pedro

    Posted on JoNP…
    Neri B. June 4th, 2013 at 9:45 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    you are a bit cynical with us followers always anxious for news if you say “big surprises and results” 🙂
    Could you please tell us if you are referring to:
    1. Technological improvements (electric power achieved, Electromotiv Force understood, increased COP)
    2. Commercial achievements (important agreements, press conference upcoming)
    3. Patent granted
    Neri B.

    Reply by Andrea Rossi June 4th, 2013 at 9:50 AM
    Dear Neri B.:
    technological and scientific achievements. We are working very hard and results are increasing.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

    • evleer

      One exciting achievement would be improved self-sustainability, which would make the E-Cat less hungry for input electrical power.

      Because this technology is still in its infancy, it is only normal that the researchers come across many surprises, which will lead to better understanding, hence control and usability.

      Too bad we have to wait for another couple of weeks before we learn what Rossi’s excitement is about. On the other hand, it better than waiting at least 6 more months for the follow-up report.

      • Owen

        Glad to hear that bit of clarification from Rossi.

        Jed Rothwell at Vortex has said repeatedly that he doesn’t believe there is a COP limit to LENR. It’s all a matter of time and sufficient investment to achieve very high or even infinite COP. Look at how the first crude airplanes eventually evolved into jet planes. He predicts the same with LENR, because some reactors have already produced very high COP levels. Now it’s just a matter of understanding how to replicate the high performance consistently.

  • Pedro

    Rossi keeps using the plural (surprises). This can mean multiple independent surprises, or it can refer to a single thing (eg report) that contains multiple surprices. I guess the latter is more likely.

  • GreenWin

    Good idea Admin. Any promotion and good word of mouth is welcome. Since I use an ancient Dell w/o vidcap, GreenWin will not be contributing a clip; (maybe audio?)

    • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

      If you have audio, send it! We should be able to make it work.

    • Jim

      And perhaps include your favorite photos and illustrations with the audio, could make a montage…

  • Tom 59

    LENR will start an economic boom, plenty of new jobs will be created. Cheap energy will allow to start unthinkable (up to now) projects, thousands of start-ups will find new ways to utilise the energy – sort of LENR-apps – but with real hardware (machines) involved which needs mechanics, engineers, administrators etc.
    So the present power plant engineers will be in high demand.

    • Owen

      I agree. Just one very efficient machine that purifies and pumps sea water to desert areas or produces low cost heat will create millions of jobs. Many will be spin-off jobs such as installing pipelines, plumbing, installation, sales, etc.

  • georgehants

    Many people on page are putting forward the situation that a fast uptake of Cold Fusion will lead to much disharmony and problems for workers and the population.
    Would anyone aware of this problem be prepared to suggest a possible solution, or are we all going to wait until we are told what to do by our wonderful politicians, media etc. and then complain again because they got it wrong and we could do better.
    There are the usual few on page actually giving helpful suggestions rather than just complain.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      georgehants….if you believe in the free market system, the market will take care of all distortions. There will be winners and losers. If we try to artificially adjust the economy, we will create bubbles and probably make it worse.

      • georgehants

        Bernie, I think the complete opposite.
        Without money and finance there would be no “bubbles” just steady production to supply all needs and fair wants with a much reduced working population.
        The present system is on the verge of collapse with everybody especially pensioners etc. worrying about their futures. Always boom and bust.
        A new system based on productivity only, means stability and gradual improvement for everybody as technology gives us more (Cold Fusion) and releases more people from insane made up jobs.

    • Omega Z

      georgehants

      I really don’t see this as a Problem. It is just people letting their imagination run away with them. Conversion is of such Magnitude, it will literally take several decades for this to happen. There will only be momentary disruptions that will quickly smooth back out.

      For instance, Rossi has stated that his partner can quickly gear up to produce about 1000 1Mw plants per year. This would calculate to 1Gw of power per year. At 1/3 electrical conversion would require 3 times that or 3000 1Mw plants to produce 1Gw of electrical power. That is equivalent to what China added in electrical production in some form or another in (The Last week or 2.) This would indicate the need for somewhere between 100 & 150 factories dedicated to only supplying China it’s present expansion. Twice that to start replacing the old systems. Between half & 2/3’s of the world will be playing catch up. This doesn’t even count all the other demand that will follow. All those people with jobs will want all the other toys/joys of life. The Task is simply Ginormous.

      High efficiency Heating & cooling has been around for better then 20 years. Yet in the U.S. more then half are still using antiquated systems. Yeah, we used to build stuff to last 50 years & their are people out there proving it.

      There will also be a point where LENR will cause it’s own delay. As an Example, Gasoline at $5 to $10 dollars a gallon would act as an incentive to Go Electric. However, once enough people switch to electric cars, the price of Gas will plummet. At a $1 a gallon, the urgency of switching to electric cars will drop. For a period of time, this status will continue. Eventually the number of people using gas powered cars will drop to a point where the service stations will have to raise prices back up to stay in business & Eventually die off.

      Ironically George, Your always talking about people having Leisure time, LENR could actually create so much World Demand for Goods & Services, that every able bodied person in the World would have to work 60 hour weeks just to keep up. I fully expect LENR will expand World GDP by 400% or more within just a few decades.

      Which by the way is why I don’t get nervous when people talk about the coming Robot invasion. We will need them to fill the manpower shortages in the future.

      And Speaking of Leisure time, It is a Growth Industry. It requires a lot of people to provide the goods & services involved in your Leisure.

      As for Government involvement, They should start setting up Trade Schools & less traditional education. E-cats & such wont install themselves & few desk jockeys have a clue as to how to do it.

      The average age of Tradesmen in the U.S. is 58 years old & climbing. 20 million out of work & few no how to fix or build anything. We have to bring in Immigrants to do it. Many Tradesmen can Now earn as much or more then many people with a Masters degree at a fraction of the Educational time & costs.

      Government should be directing people into the jobs that are & will be instead of pushing them to get College degrees for jobs that are fewer & becoming non relevant. I don’t see any demand developing for Zombie Exterminators. 🙂

      • Fibb

        “However, once enough people switch to electric cars, the price of Gas will plummet. At a $1 a gallon, the urgency of switching to electric cars will drop.”

        I strongly doubt that gas prices will drop much as ev adoption becomes significant. More likely refining production will drop dramatically as it will be clearly seen as a dying business and quite possibly drop too far to keep gas at a reasonable price. Gas shortages are at least as likely as a gas glut but there are lots of variables.

        • Omega Z

          Fibb

          True a $1 may be a stretch. I was just making a point. But it will drop. But business has a set over head & when demand drops to low prices will go back up.

          Also at some point it will drop so low that no one will sell it & then you better be ready to make your own Or Switch.

          I’m thinking it’s Peter/fortyniner that has a little chugalug boat or something. I don’t know. Maybe he’d be happy with a Stanley Steamer. 🙂

          • fortyniner

            Sort of – except that my ‘little chugalug boat’ is forty-odd feet long, built like a tank and weighs around 14 tons!

            And yes, I would love a Stanley Steamer. I’ve mentioned this to my wife as several birthdays have approached, but no luck so far.

          • fortyniner

            For those unfamiliar with narrowboats:

            http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Narrowboat

      • georgehants

        Omega Z, I disagree with most you say.
        Please make one point at a time or things are lost in the jungle.
        For now Take into consideration that without a rising World population capitalism would stagnate and collapse.
        Why are so many immigrants managing to get into western countries and made citizens, without them the holy grail of capitalism (growth) collapses.
        There are more unemployed in every western Country than the incoming immigrants which cancels your argument of need.
        Without finance and capitalism millions more would be out of work to look after the elderly and infirm.
        Why is there not a gentle mindset given to citizens to reduce the birthrate that we all know is causing much harm to the World.
        Production already could supply every need in the World at a fair level.
        What extra needs are you suggesting, that we build a Rolls-Royce for everybody.
        What else in a materialistic sense does anybody need if equaled through out society and the World
        Sorry I am going on now.

        • Omega Z

          I know what your saying George.

          We in the west live a false sense of plenty.
          Stop the trucks for 3 days & reality will show it’s self.
          Shelves full of food become barren, Meat displays empty, not even dry beans or rice. No milk, bread or any of the things we take for granted. Service stations closed because their fuel tanks a dry. I lived it just a few years ago.

          In the west we have a finely tuned deliver system constantly replenishing the shelves 24/7. It allows us the sense of plenty.

          When there’s a big to do in town that brings in outsiders, the stores order extra weeks in advance. Supply chains have to be adjusted. Shifted. That’s because the is little extra in the supply chain.

          All this goes on behind the scenes & We are none the wiser. Our Illusions are kept intact.

          Note that there is only 90 days of food in the World on any given day. 1/3rd of that is already working it’s way through the supply chain. Disruptions have repercussions world wide.

          As for Capitalism It is just a formation of Capital to get a job or project done. Or another term for gathering resources like Getting people/laborers & materials together to build a house. Only it’s held in currency until they start.

          Greed is a different Beast. This is something throughout society. Friends, Family, Neighbors, Business, Corporations, Banks, All. None are above it.

          • fortyniner

            Omega – great post and a somber warning that we all need to heed. It is very easy to be lulled into a very false sense of security, where in fact there is very little. I have recently built a larder in my basement, and intend to add a few items of storable food a week – just as insurance.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    I have an inlaw that is a CPA for TVA. A couple of years back, during the early days of the Rossi CF news, I sent him a heads-up. He did not reply.

    I told an old schoolmate and he said, “Lord, I hope not. Much of my retirement income is dividends from utility companies.”

    Most of the world is “fat, dumb, & happy” and disinterested.

    We must face the fact that we futurists are oddballs. Patho-skeptics are the polar opposites of us.

    • GreenWin

      It is true that the financial sector relies on stable utility returns to guarantee income to giant funds like pension funds. IF utilities envision the transition path from giant grid to distributed resources – there need be little interruption.

      But for the whole social security, pension, banking system to stay afloat, new sources of steady, lower income will need to be found. Since cost of energy drops dramatically, it may be something else; clean water?, low cost healthcare,? agriculture? Banks and governments will need to learn how to get along in a world that no longer “meters” electric energy.

      • AlainCo

        not a problem, telephony, networks followed the same change…
        Computers too…
        Creative destruction…

        The small business will be the only one that will dare to break the status quo, and big will adapt or die.
        This is why initiative like LENR-Cities are important t accelerate and protect innovation in small businesses.

      • Jim

        Hmmm…

        1) If energy gets cheaper due to LENR, domestic USA & European demand for/consumption of energy will:
        A) Increase
        B) Decrease
        C) Stay about the same

        2) LENR-based technology will make the satisfaction of energy demand:
        A) More labor intensive
        B) Less labor intensive

        3) For the near and mid-term future, the organizations best able to meet demand for energy, including from sources such as the E-CAT, will be:
        A) Established utilities
        B) Startup energy companies
        C) Device suppliers/Retailers
        D) Individuals

        • Jim

          4) After commercial introduction, public proof and acceptance of e-Cat, the shift to largely distributed power generation vs largely centralized power generation will happen:
          A) To a significant degrees within a few years
          B) Gradually and completely over 10 years or so
          C) Not completely ever

          • GreenWin

            Might be longer than a decade. Plenty of customers will not elect the expense of CHP equipment. They will be enticed by lower cost/kWh and utility marketing gimmicks. Completion of transition will probably follow the life of central generating equipment. Retired turbines will not be replaced.

            • Omega Z

              GreenWin

              I liken the situation to where if LENR was suddenly available to power electric cars by whatever means, When half the cars in the world have transitioned, The price of gas drops to a $1 a gallon.
              The other half of car owners have much less urgency to transition.

        • Omega Z

          Jim

          1. A) Increase It’s increasing now. It will accelerate.
          2. A) More labor intensive- World GDP will >Increase.
          3. A) Established utilities
          — B) Startup energy companies- Likely
          4. D) Gradually over Decades- Completely ?

          I expect World GDP to increase at least 400% over 3 to 5 decades. The Robot invasion some worry about will become a necessity to fill the Labor shortage.

          Power distribution wont change much for at least a decade & gradually to local grids. Off-grid isn’t likely a large part of this. Simply because people like convenience. Tho Some will opt for this. It will be an Option. Utilities will survive, Just different then presently exists.

          Due to new demands, Recycling will become an absolute necessity, However LENR technology will reduce the cost of recycling. We forget that 1/2 to 2/3rds of the World has little in modern convenience & that will drastically affect resources. Iron, Copper, rare earth metals. Even Nickle will increase. Not because of the 1% needed for energy, but the 99% that’s presently used for other product demand. This stuff is all around us, but we just don’t notice.

          If BLP should come to market & does as told, they could be a wild card & speed things up, but not near as much as one may think. How we think the world works & reality are as different as Night & Day.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Admin…..good idea,go for it! P.S. Also, contact your elected officials!

  • Owen

    We the People have the power. It is our right and, I believe, civic duty to help spread the word. Every little bit helps. I’m in the process of printing numerous documents for our local university physics department. Yeah, it’s a small step, but things like this create ripples that turn into waves if enough people participate. Now is the perfect time to get involved. The 3rd party report and the acceptance of test results by Elforsk are rock solid evidence. I’m printing just the first page of documents with the internet address so they can read the entirety online.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      In other fields of science, it is not unheard of that amateurs make big contributions, for example in archeology (http://yle.fi/uutiset/amatooriarkeologit_ovat_tehneet_kevaalla_huikeita_loytoja/6672965, the journalist casually writes “the history of Southern Carelia must be rewritten because of finds made by amateurs..” and no one wonders).

      • Owen

        Examples like this (archeology) are no major threat to the existing power structure. LENR is threatening trillions of dollars of assets. There must be a lot of action going on behind the scenes to control the situation.

        • KD

          I don’t agree with it. As presently everything is under all kind of taxation and licensing.
          LENR will not replace in short time other kinds of energy.
          It might be possible that the LENR will help the other sources energy might be less expensive in production.

      • georgehants

        I could state a hundred like cases but many arrogant scientists still refer to people like Fermat as “amateur.”
        Time to take note of the “qualified” “amateurs” who tried to replicate P&F’s experiments etc. and because of their biased incompetence, failed and have lost a possible 24 years of clean water for those in need.

        • psi

          Right, George,such linguistic considerations are unfortunately never irrelevant. Having the title “scientist” does not always insure adherence to a truly scientific perspective and may indeed impede it. Likewise, those with the benefit of the label sometimes make the real discoveries. My own impression is that Rossi, as a brilliant experimentalist, straddles both camps. Sometimes lacking the intellectual armor of too much of the wrong kinds of theory Ii.e. assumption) is a great benefit. At this point there is no doubting that Rossi, as some have predicated, holds the momentum. Let’s hope he keeps it and that the scientific community and government leaders respond to the positive potential of the e-cat rather than react out of fear and ignorance.

      • AlainCo

        It is not an exception but a rule according to Nassim Nicholas taleb.
        real discovery is not done by professional scientists, theoris or academics, but by practitioners, garage inventors, lab rats, businessmen,engineers…

        He describe that in Antifragile in the chapter “History being rewritten by the losers”, with some example like jet reactor, option pricing, . you can add planes (wrights and others flower mower), LENR, medicine (plant healers), surgery (war doctors)…

        his book is bloody against established science and academics.

  • georgehants

    The way to “help” is to keep maximum pressure on science, to explain why they are not informing governments and media that the proven, beyond known science, Cold Fusion has arrived and why all necessary funds and manpower is not immediately being transferred to it’s Research.

    • SteveW

      The scientists aren’t informing governments because the same people who are telling governments what to do are telling scientists what to think. It’s such a simple system and the vast majority of scientists don’t even realize they are being duped. Peer review is really twisted into peer pressure. Start doing research in a taboo field like LENR and your career is finished. It doesn’t take long before they realize if they bash it, they will gain credibility- maybe get a promotion. They will be the ones to talk to the media and government about whether LENR is real or not- that’s where it ends.

      • Pedro

        There are plenty of examples where scientific progress is blocked without huge economic interest being in the way, or even without obvious self-interest like funding, etc. Sometimes ego’s, shortsightedness and conservatism alone can do the job.
        In the case of LENR however, all three factors re-enforce themselves… Inertia of the science community, conflicts of interrest (hot fusion) and economic power play.

    • Zedshort

      That is the way it should work but not in this case. In this case, the pressure needs to come from a position of political power that is willing to ask embarrassing questions of the science community’s past behavior and what they are going to do in the future to correct their past mistake. I don’t think the science community can correct itself.

      • GreenWin

        Zed, there will be a period of house cleaning long overdue. Those questions must be asked and, at last, US federal funding for all science research will need a complete overhaul.

        A new civilian panel of pols, industry, and academics will need to carefully study the fed funding system, making sure to eliminate gate-keepers at big agencies like NIH,DOE, USTPTO, national labs, etc. Essentially, do the house cleaning predicted by Eisenhower.

        This same panel should use the E-Cat example to reinvigorate Mom & Pop (Edisonian) innovation. If public funds go to big agencies and labs, there should also be streamlined support for Mom & Pop science – maybe through SBA (US Small Business Admin)

        • psi

          Greenwin,

          Excellent – we need you on the official Advisory Panel to get the ball rolling! : )

          • GreenWin

            I’ll do it gladly.

      • Al_D

        You mean like global warming?

        • Roger Bird

          Seems like. AGW has become a religion of greedy fanatics telling anxious fanatics that the world is ending.

    • mark

      Why? You are asking to shift the power, funds, jobs and privilege from some groups to others. There will be a lot of resistance – long, grinding and dirty struggle. I told my friend, a senior EHV cable designer, about the recent HotCat report and the first sentence that came out of his mouth was “how much time do I have?”. He was not excited about it but quite fearful about losing his job.

      • georgehants

        Mark, you are just describing another fault with the system where labour is not directed to the most important areas but inefficiently maintained to keep worthless jobs in many areas.
        Remove capitalism and build a new system that is efficient and productive without the waste of money and finance.
        A person should never fear losing their jobs as every worthless job lost means moving to a more important job and more free time and shorter working lives for all.
        The trick is to make suggestions into how one improves things not just complain.

      • fortyniner

        I got an almost identical reaction from an engineer I met at a BBQ during the weekend, who still works at a nearby nuclear power station. His reaction to a discussion I was having with a friend about the 3rd party report was (more or less word for word): “Yes, I’ve heard something about cold fusion making a comeback, but I don’t really know anything about it. Well I’ve only got four years until I retire – it can’t affect anything much before then can it?”

        I told him that I didn’t think it would affect his job – but if that had been 10 years he might have been looking at an early retirement.

        • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

          Mark and Peter, thanks for sharing those interesting but understandable reactions, but when you multiply those by thousands, if not millions of people who work in the power industry, what will the effect be?

          • georgehants

            Admin, would you agree that your question raises my above concerns that we are living with the wrong system of naked capitalism and unless it is changed very little progress can be made with peoples working lives and happiness while they are all struggling to pay bills etc.

            • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

              Hi George,

              I see the struggles of people everywhere to survive and prosper and wish things were otherwise. I see cold fusion as one way to make things easier for people. With a technology such as this it should be possible to escape from economic systems based on scarcity to ones of abundance.

              There are many problems that stem from the ‘naked capitalist’ system you mention, but there are problems with other systems too. I’m grateful to live in a country that allows for freedom of expression (e.g. for me to publish this site freely on the web), and for people to pursue business interests in an atmosphere of freedom – e.g. Andrea Rossi. I feel like it’s far more preferable than living under an authoritarian regime where human ingenuity is stifled.
              My hope is that from its small beginnings this new fire will spread and that it will help improve the lot of people everywhere – hopefully leading to better economic and political systems as it grows.

              • georgehants

                Admin, I of course understand your protection of “Freedom” for which many of our Fathers and Grandfathers died to protect and still do.
                They did their best for their family’s, children and grandchildren.
                We must do the same, one does not have to lose Freedom to improve a system, but to just sit on our arses frightened of positive change and do nothing when the inequality and waste is so obvious is I think inexcusable.
                This site has the opertunity to not only inform the World of the Wonderful achievements of “amateurs” like Mr. Rossi but help to integrate all of society to make the most of his endeavors.
                How better could we spend our time.

          • GreenWin

            Frank, a good discussion topic. I have spent some time pondering this very real issue. Although I often compare transition from horse and buggy and hand delivered ice to auto and home refrigeration – this will be greater.

            But with forethought, and planning, utilities (commercial power) can transition to an entirely new business model – or die. That model adopts LENR and licensed, branded E-Cat products for manufacture, installation and maintenance revenue. District and distributed microgrids need to be built. LENR CHP systems need to be installed & maintained. No reason utility workforce cannot do these jobs.

            Another huge new jobs sector is decommissioning the old grid. A thirty year task. Thousands of miles of HV transmission cable, towers, sub-stations, transformers, etc need to be dismantled. Construction work, good pay, job security.

            LENR means JOBS.

            • MStone

              That’s all fine and dandy for a perfect world. But I think that the US Government will massively tax this new technology for the next 20 years to take care of our national debt. Then once the books are balanced…we can start dabbling in utopia.

              • Roger Bird

                There will be no balanced books because liberals *want* too many **good** things and don’t give a fig about balanced books.

              • GreenWin

                Nope. That is no longer an option since it remains a government of the people – who stand to benefit the most from this technology. Taxes?? How will a politician answer his constituents when they ask why their electric bills haven’t decreased?

                Taxes on LENR is a pipe dream of the old ruling class.

        • georgehants

          Hi Peter, this subject raises my ire, lets not worry about us old farts but the millions of young students that are being led into mediocrity by the high priests of known reductionism.

          • fortyniner

            Hi George. Agreed, but it looks like it’ll mostly be the old farts who will carry the CF ball for a while yet, with the honourable exception of independent younger minds like those involved in the MFMP.

            As you imply, current science teaching is ‘modular’ (i.e. disjointed), inflexible and does not encourage fresh thought. In many ways it embodies the 19th century assumption that everything worth knowing was already known. Add to that the fact that most research is now ‘targeted’ and funded by industry, and wandering off the reservation is not wise. It is hard to see how the transition could occur just now.

            But when the first self-feeding cold fusion generator is up and running for all to see, things will change so fast that ‘establishment’ science will be swept away overnight in the rush to grab a piece of the action.

            • georgehants

              Good stuff. better than the puerile dishwater from many lately.

      • Blanco69

        I work for a global utility company and, while I agree that the introduction of ecat genration will no doubt represent a huge shift in the industry, I think that power companies will still have a place. While many of the pioneers here on ECW will be dropping off grid ASAP. I believe that a significant proportion of the population wont and will still expect a stable, centrally generated power supply sent to their homes. What they will expect though is for that power to be quite a lot cheaper. That’s ok because I also expect the fuel costs to be a lot cheaper as well. Like all companies, salaries come out of the margin between income and costs so I dont feel like a turkey who is looking forward to Thanksgiving/Xmas….Not yet anyway.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          I think there will be a shift to localized “micro-grid” utilities. Many or most will be city or county owned.

          How long did it take “Ma Bell” to become extinct? AT&T is really a “baby Bell” that bought the AT&T name.

          • GreenWin

            Iggy, microgrids can also be owned and operated by a home or business owners association. Home and biz owners pay a small fee for backup services or power services. With enough participants you would not need your own LENR unit, just buy energy from your neighbors.

            • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

              Here in the rural midwest of the USA, electrical distribution services for rural residents (I am one) are operated by cooperatives where the customers are theoretically the owners.

              Maybe at the next annual members’ meeting I should go and bring up the E-Cat and see what happens!

              • NJT

                Yes, Cooperatives could work to ease the transition especially in the midwestern states of the USA where they are already well established. Perhaps that would be a good “first trial” business model to explore for Rossi’s USA partner?

              • psi

                Yes!

              • Barry

                Many small towns are putting up town owned wind turbines on the East Coast of the U.S. Bigger than I’ve ever seen saving the towns $$$. Imagine when the Ecats hit the market. It doesn’t have to be federal or state but something decided at a small town meeting.

            • Iggy Dalrymple

              Same here, my small town(population 2,500) owns its microgrid, but buys power from the wholesale market. Most of my county’s rural population use REA (Rural Electric Co-op). A small portion use a private utility company(Gulf Power), which is our only provider that also generates its own power. To our East, the City of Tallahassee produces its power(99% NatGas, 1% hydro). Tallahasse uses both gas/steam turbines and gas-turbines.

              The gas/steam turbines would be candidates for LENR retrofits.

          • AlainCo

            see what have happened to computer network and telephony with Internet, VoIP/ToIP, …

          • Omega Z

            AT&T is really a “baby Bell” that bought the AT&T name.

            And most of the other baby bells.
            It reassembled.

        • GreenWin

          Blanco – I agree. And many here speculate on LENR central power stations, replacing even NG-fired turbines. But the refrigeration business provides valuable clues to consumer behavior.

          When just after WWII home refrigeration became affordable for anyone with a job and Sears/manufacturer credit, the ice box industry ended. Why pay for ice made somewhere else, when you can make it at home??

          This is the LENR evolution path. Why make electricity far away e.g. dams, nukes, and transmit it distance – when we can make it cheaper, more reliably, securely, on location. Oh yeah, w/o pollution or *CO2!*

          • georgehants

            GreenWin When the ice-cutters where put out of work by new technology capitalism still had a place and there where many areas for them to relocate.
            To day production has easily outstripped the needs of the whole World if properly organised.
            Where will the power workers work?
            More crazy made up jobs to keep capitalism going for the benefit of a few rich and powerful fossils and their inheriting parasites.
            There is no Work that is necessary that cannot be done by half the working population, freeing the remainder for all to work less hours for a shorter working life.
            No bills, no financial worry’s, maintained just to keep the plebs in order.
            GreenWin I have great respect for your Wisdom, please give me some thinking on the overall advantages of capitalism in the modern World

            • GreenWin

              George so nice to have you back, making me smile. I shall not dip even a toe into the black hole defending capitalism – except to say the village marketplace has worked for a long while. It was once based solely on barter (a rabbit for loaves, etc.) then it made sense to have a more convenient bartering instrument called, steady man… money.

              Money works fine until power-mad humans instructed by overseers to believe there is not enough of anything, and that death is the boogie man – panic. Fear makes people hoard.

              In the abundant world, there IS enough, PLENTY for everyone. The fear will dissipate slowly. But with less fear on the planet, power struggles have less fuel.

              Imagine if we have abundant, clean energy, how many less young men and women must serve in some manufactured battle zone to protect “limited resources.”

              • georgehants

                GreenWin, I don’t now what I am doing here, to frustrating reading the same tame responses lately while everybody (mostly) waits to get their opinions from the Daily Mirror, BBC, or their favourite premier scientific comic, even Wiki-rubbish or the topics placed on these pages.
                I agree that capitalism has been useful just like barter, in it’s time.
                I will just ask, in the U.K. do you see that if all money and finance where removed and the status quo kept, (roughly)
                half the population would be out of work.
                The other half are working just to maintain capitalism.

                • Iggy Dalrymple

                  George, I’m still betting on capitalism. Capitalism is what motivates Rossi, Defkalion, and Brillouin. It’s capitalism that attracted Rossi to move to the USA. It was failed socialism that drove Defkalion from Greece.

                • georgehants

                  Iggy, good basic point that many make about socialism (communism,) now let your thinking move on one step.
                  You are saying that incentive must be maintained. I agree.
                  Therefore remove capitalism for a more fair and sensible system with the advantages I have outlined elsewhere on page but the incentive to achieve more than the average must be maintained.
                  I mean achieve by work for society or have talent etc. not have a manipulating mouth or rich parents.
                  I an advocating building something better, not to take away fair advantage or sensible reward for those who are truly deserving.

                • Barry

                  George, like Winston Churchill said, “Capitalism is the best, worst system we have.” Powerful corporate greed is a separate topic. It will work it’s slimy way into any system that surfaces.

                • Roger Bird

                  Ya’all, I propose a skipped generation inheritance tax. Earned inheritance would not be taxed. Inherited inheritance would be taxed 100%. Family farms and domiciles would not be included. If you want your children to inherit money from you, you better work hard and earn it, because under my plan whatever you inherited from your parents would be taxed 100% when you try to pass it on to your children. This incentivizes productivity. Investments would be considered a form of productivity. This also discourages large accumulations of wealth at the top. Large accumulations of wealth at the top is bad for society. Why should a Vanderbilt get to not work his/her life just because his/her great-great-great grandfather was incredibly productive. Under my plan, the children of the 1st Vanderbilt could inherit all his money. Their children, Vanderbilt’s grandchildren, could only inherit what Vanderbilt’s children earn either through wise investments or regular work. The money from the 1st Vanderbilt would go to the government.

                  I also support the Fair Tax.