Rossi on the Need for a Partner [Updated Again]

Here’s an exchange I had with Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about his partnership with the American company he has referred to so often. I know there are some who have been concerned that Rossi has ‘sold out’ by turning his technology over to external corporate interests, who may want to restrict the use of the E-Cat (prevent the sale of domestic E-Cats, for example) or even keep it completely from being used in the real world.

Dear Andrea,

I think more people are becoming convinced of the reality of your technology in light of the recent test report and I am sure that many are looking forward to seeing the E-Cat in the marketplace.

1. What are the advantages for your technology in entering to a partnership with a US partner rather than staying independent?
A. Our US Partner is a Carrier, like the Enterprise, we are a small warship. Now we can fight to win a world war. Without the help of our US Partner we could not survive. Maybe also physically.

2. How have you been able to ensure that your technology will not be buried or surpressed?
A. Choosing the right Partner, enthusiast and on the same wavelength of us

3. Have there been any attempts by outside interests to bury your invention?
A. yes, but they just tried to turn a tiger into a vegetarian. But this made necessary to find a strong Partner: you know what they say: if you cannot buy an enemy, kill him. There are many ways to kill a person.

Some interesting hints here — he talks about the need for a partner being necessary for the survival of his technology, and maybe even himself. Sharing his secrets with the partner may have taken a lot of pressure off Rossi, and apparently given him protection he could not have found if he had remained independent.

UPDATE:

Rossi made an additional statement regarding the partner:

Andrea Rossi
May 31st, 2013 at 5:34 AM
Dear Gian Luca:
The necessity to stay behind the curtain of secrecy is due to the necessity to work without disturbments from the enemies until the plants are operating.
We want not to be disturbed during the initial period during which technological problems have to be adjusted. You can imagine what will happen after it will be known where our plants are operating, and we need to be prepared also under the security point of view, with a consolidated operation of the plants. Only after this the USA Partner will make a press conference.
This is why here are spammed all the comments that ask us ” why your Partner wants not be known?”, again, and again, and again…..
Warm Regards,
A.R.

UPDATE #2

Here’s another relevant quote from a different JONP thread

Dear Luca Salvarani:
Our USA Partner is enthusiast of the E-Cats and is making all the necessary endeavours to develope this technology and all the possible applications at the maximum possible level. Obviously I will fight standing by him.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • Jordi Heguilor

    I would like to point to a little contradiction:

    1) Rossi says that he’s building robotized factories for the production of the “home” E-cat. If you know anything about robotics, he’s saying that he’s investing billions of dollars.

    2) He’s selling country distributorships for a measly 400.000 dollars total. I mean 400K for all countries together.

    I cannot prove that this is a scam, but from a business point of view it does not make sense.

    • Roger Bird

      Business people often “brag” or vent about things that they are going to do but have not yet done, particularly to people who don’t really count, like us. I like to talk to my dogs. I don’t make a whole lot of sense when I do, but what are they going to do about it? They adore me and will listen to any kind of garbage that comes out of my mouth. And I am always very kind and loving towards them. In the same way, Rossi will deliver, even if the fine details don’t always make a lot of sense. Think of us as his psychotherapists, and his problem is that he has an excess of excitement and needs someone to vent at.

      • Jordi Heguilor

        Roger, you and I may look at this with amusement (at least I do) but if people are buying distributorships based on factories that don’t exist, this is fraud, not “venting”. If Rossi needs psychotherapy, he needs a shrink, not misled investors.

        • Roger Bird

          Jordi, please don’t start telling me that you are worrying about investors and that this is what keeps you up at night writing comments to this site. This is exactly what the skeptopaths say, yet they are as uncharitable in every aspect of their posts as can be, including but not limited to calling innocent people crooks.

  • Ed Young

    I haven’t read all the comments above, so please pardon if this has already been mentioned. I keep thinking back to a while ago when typing in “ecat.com” (or something thereabouts) would result in a redirect to Google’s green initiatives homepage. How I wish the u.s. partner to be Google, (however unlikely)- that would be brilliant! Any one have any wild speculations on this?

  • Stefan

    Hurra Burra Basse Nasse,

    Someone at Vortex-l is supposed to have made a reasonable SPICE mathematical model of the ECAT

    is the tool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPICE ?

    And seams to have a detail confirmation that the suggested physics is well in line with what we see in the temperature output e.g. coherent.

    Under the scam hypothesis Rossi must have a very good knowledge how this
    system is supposed to behave. It is not so easy now to say that this is a proof of a no scam, but for sure the output seams to be coherent with probable physics under the assumption that this is functioning LENR device.

    Cheers
    /Stefan

  • lenrdawn

    “You can imagine what will happen after it will be known where our plants are operating”

    I don’t really see that being much of a problem. The locations of Rossi’s labs (so far the only places disclosed where plants are supposed to be operating) are well known but I haven’t heard anything about LENR groupies clogging the streets of Ferrara or Levi not reporting to work on time because he had to fight his way through dense clouds of investigative journalists at the Bologna airport. There would be inquiries, of course, but if those would lead to some positive PR, they would certainly eclipse whatever impact the 3rd party report had. So I’d see no real harm – but then I don’t see a real upside for the customer either, so we probably just have to accept it as one of those things we’d really like to know but don’t get to see because we’re ultimately irrelevant to how this plays out (thank God for that).

    • Roger Bird

      It is my observation and belief that most reporters are extremely shallow in their thinking. For one thing, they have to know a little bit about just about everything, from Beyonce’s toenail color to what the President said yesterday at lunch. And this picture makes them seem sharper and deeper than they really are. It simply would not impact a reporter’s heart/mind that a completely new energy source that is almost ideal in every respect would be world shakingly important. To them, screaming teenage girls are a sign of something important happening, not COP calculations and hot cylinders staying hot for hundreds of hours.

      So I don’t think that Levi et. al. need to worry about bevies of reporters pestering them at the airport.

    • Bob

      I tend to agree. Most people either would have only a passing interest in the matter or more likely, couldn’t care less. If it was any different, the papers would be full of every announcement and utterance from the Rossi blogs, similar to what we see on this web site, and clearly they are not. In fact so far, barely a mention. Some people put this down to the influence of big oil or political pressure. When has that ever stopped the news media reporting whatever they wanted, even to the complete detriment of the very powers and authorities which some people would believe are directing the course of media discussion on this event?
      The logical conclusion is that they couldn’t care less because they still believe it is all horse feathers.

      If the location of a working plant was made public there would certainly be an initial flurry of interest from the few who take an interest in such things and some would be talking about it, but nothing which would in any way cramp the normal activities of the business which was running the device.
      As stated in the previous post, where were the teams of lenr groupies plaguing Rossi’s Bologna factory and Ferarra factory?
      And if there were any, even a few, what would they see?
      Even if everything was running all at once, what would they see? or hear?
      It’s not like the next Airbus would launch out of the factory door or anything like it. If there is a revolution taking place, (and there well might be), it is a very quiet one.
      Every business uses their existing customers as a recommendation in their advertising to validate their product and attract new customers.
      They take great pride in compiling a list of their customers, and the bigger the better.
      I think it would do a lot more good than harm to make public each and every installation.

  • Stew

    Ah, finally those robots which had been ordered and programmed a long time ago come into play…

    >>
    Silvio Caggia
    June 1st, 2013 at 5:32 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    You say your Partner is preparing automated lines for mass production…
    But mass production of what modules? Warm e-cat? E-cat HT? E-cat HT2? E-tiger? Onion-cat? Else?

    Andrea Rossi
    June 1st, 2013 at 5:49 AM
    Silvio Caggia:
    E-Cat low temperature
    Hot Cats
    Both as modules of 1 MW plants (so far).
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    <<

  • Timar

    Jean Manning on her visit to Defkalion – Peter Gluck writes:

    “A good friend, a leading personality of the New Energy Movement, the Canadian writer, Jeane Manning has visited the labs of Defkalion Green Technologies at Vancouver and has published this fine frontline report.”

    http://changingpower.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Defkalion-2-page-JM-Article-100-3.pdf

    See also Peter Gluck’s LENR+ manifesto in the same blog post:

    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.fr/2013/05/jeane-manning-writes-about-defkalion.html

    • khawk

      What does everyone think of this quote from Defkalion management in 2011? Also, sounds like the NI Week demo is now a slidedeck – hope the pathos have mercy on them.

      “Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.”

      That is what Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion Green Technology’s owners, told Ny Teknik in a telephone conversation on August 5, 2011.

      “I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of Siena Padua. (…) They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did,” he continued.

      UPDATED (Dec 1): Defkalion has clarified that it was the University of Padua, where an anaylis of used Nickel powder actually was performed, commissioned by Rossi./End update

    • Sanjeev

      Good write up, but, it seems, DGT is now hiding the fact that they got the tech from Rossi. The article makes it appear as if they independently discovered it by long and tedious experimentation.

      It also mentions plasma, which is a new thing for me.

      • AlainCo

        it is clear that even knowing the rossi recipe, they invented their own very different method.
        Rossi don’t use plasma, not foam, and given his theoretical discussion in 2011, he did not inspire defkalion much about their crystallography design.

        maybe the make a very different design to avoid IP problem, but also maybe because thermal shock (they describe rossi as based on thermal shock) is not stable and hard to control…

  • Ake

    Using Rossi statement about his Partner being present in China
    gets the list of candidates alot shorter .
    E.g this office could become very important for E-Cat:
    Babcock & Wilcox Beijing Company Ltd.

    Which candidates have similar representation, same time answering to other known criteria & hints?

  • Roger Bird

    Columbus comes back from the New World. “Hey, we found land with people living on it.” “Prove it.” “Well, we saw it, and here are some pretty flowers that we brought back. We also brought back some captives.” “Everyone knows that there is nothing going West. You probably accidentally went down to Africa and found savages who were not quite as dark as the ones that we are used to.” “No, we actually went west. You have our word.” “Your word is not good enough. Do you have any documentary evidence.” “Well, no.” “You should have a signed document from the king of this new land that you claim to have visited. Do you have such a document?” “Well, no.” “Then you have no evidence. You are a fraud.”

    • AlainCo

      it happen to Marco Polo

    • Jordi Heguilor

      Columbus trips had something Rossi’s demonstrations lack: repeatability.

      • Roger Bird

        But Jordi, that is not true. LENR has been repeated numerous times: Mitsubishi, Toyota, SRI, etc. LENR+ has been repeated by other companies at least twice (Brillouin and Defkalion), perhaps more, if someone wants to chime in here and help me and protect the honor of LENR+.

        • Mannstein

          At MIT with Hagelstein and Swartz it has been demonstrated last summer to the public.

        • Jordi Heguilor

          Roger, I didn’t talk about Mitsubishi, Toyota, SRI, etc.

          The ones lacking repeatability are ROSSI’S demonstrations.

          • Roger Bird

            Jordi, so you believe in LENR, just not Rossi? This is because Rossi won’t give out his secret sauce. But that will either come or else we will eventually lose interest in him.

            It is nice to see that you are not a patho-skeptic. I battled them and shills for years in the health realm; I am wiser now. I don’t battle them.

            But what say you of Brillouin and Defkalion? Do they not count as replications?

            • Jordi Heguilor

              Roger, maybe you have more information than I do, but, no, I haven’s seen independent confirmation of Brillouin or Defkalion’s claims, so, no, they don’t count as replications.

              • Roger Bird

                But Jordi, Brillouin and Defkalion are the independent confirmations of LENR+. If all LENR+ are commercial, and commercial does not count as independent, then I guess that you will have to wait until you can buy one at Home Depot before you can have “independent” confirmation. Your neighbor’s LENR+ won’t count because he won’t want to look like a fool for buying an unproven technology.

  • Omega Z

    When speaking of partner Rossi says he-
    Don’t read to much into that.

    Dear Georgehants,
    her comment is important because it opens the door to the following news:

    Her referring to George. Probably should have read “Your”

    If I were at War with somebody, I would want Rossi to Totally be my public Spokesman.
    It would totally Confuse the Hail out of your Enemy. They would have no Idea where your at or where your going. Maybe you packed up & went home. They would be in total chaos trying to figure it out.

    • Kim

      Carlos Castaneda Said it this way when
      asking Don Jaun about a warriors disposition.

      ” A warrior knows the secret of making
      oneself available or unavailable at every turn”

      Respect
      Kim

  • Kim

    We have seen the wright brothers airplane fly.
    We have seen the E-cat function.

    We will be building the airplanes in the U.S.
    at the wright brothers partners facility.

    We will be building the E-cat in the U.S
    at our partners facility.

    Don’t you think a few reporters would be trying
    to find this facility?

    What has change between 1903 and 2013?

    Respect
    Kim

    • LilyLover

      Caesar took over Egypt just like that.
      The Bankers took over the World just like that.

      In 1903 people had misplaced faith and lack of information.
      In 2013 people have misplaced faith and lack of DESIRE TO SEEK information.

      The 1903 uninformed has become 2013 dumber-ignorant.

      Information vacuum paradox – I call it.
      Internet, the real threat to evil, is countered by information vacuum paradox, by the masters and the system apologists.

      • Kim

        Correct!

        Perfectly correct.

        Respect
        Kim

      • Roger Bird

        We are inundated with too much information, so it may be difficult for us to pick and choose with things to study and which to just pass over.

        • Kim

          This is definetly part of the
          problem.

          People do have information overload
          and can’t focus on what is important.

          Man This is IMPORTANT!!! this is
          will be a whole new chapter for
          humanity

          Respect
          Kim

          • Owen

            It’s really weird though because I’ve told intelligent tech savvy people about the E-Cat and explained why it’s one of the most important inventions ever and so far they just don’t get it. They’d rather talk about frivolous stuff and joke around. The third party report was helpful in strengthening my case.

            • Roger Bird

              Owen, IQ will not help a person shift paradigms. If anything, being too much into one paradigm may hinder some people from shifting paradigms. We have rock solid observation on our side. They have theory developed using observational tools traveling close to light speed on their side. And we know that things traveling close to the speed of light exhibit peculiar behavior. If every single, solitary one of their measurements were using these light-speed tools (electron, neutrons, etc.), then they could and would probably have a bias in their “observations” which has caused them to miss things that we are seeing in cold fusion experiments.

              • Owen

                Good to hear your take. They probably feel the story is too long and complex to sort out. I’m guessing they will take the wait and see approach. They’ll fully believe when a major company makes a big announcement and/or products are for sale in major chain stores. This makes sense for normal new products — a new car, etc. But here we’re probably talking about the biggest game changer in history. You’d think they’d show more interest. That’s the part that doesn’t make sense to me.

                • Joe Shea

                  They have just been burned too badly over the Pons-Fleischmann event. The media has a pretty long memory. They will not cover this story for years, I think – at least the big dailies like the NY Times and LA Times. We will get Discovery, Myth Busters, etc., long before they will commit themselves to print. But there is hope “60 Minutes” will come back to it, or Dateline will find it, or maybe Rock Center. Wired and Forbes, Popular ZMechanics, Oilprice and several other fairly big sites are fully on it, though. A cover story in Rolling Stone would be great.

                • Owen

                  Their lack of interest could be based on a combination of things — lack of mass media coverage, ‘failed’ P&F experiment, information overload. There are millions of rabbit holes you can duck into.

                  I’d love to see someone like Matt Taibbi do a Rolling Stone story about the coverup of cold fusion/LENR.

              • AlainCo

                yes, the problem with new paradigm is that the old-species is adapted to the old-paradigm, and more drammatic defend it’s position despite logic.

                IQ is not really the problem, and sure not the solution, because the problem is education.

                as Thomas kuhn explain, scientist education is so painful that they cannot think different. It is required to be a brainwash, because their current paradigm have to be so deeply entrenched that they can work at the frontier of their knowledge, not bothering about the foundation of their paradigm.

                this is why innovation came from people of another domain, often told incompetent or suboptimaly educated, that dont have the rigid position on the foundation…

                it is more easy to move a trailer than a castle.

                this is why most innovator, when not foreign scientist (chemist in physics or medicine), are simply lower educate (engineer, practitioneers, self-taught).

                this is what many people explain like:
                nassim nicholas taleb
                norbert alter
                thomas kuhn
                and in a different way, roland benabou (who explain that people having not invested too much, and not dependent on the entrenched community in a subject can see the facts better).

                all is normal, yet awfully crazy.

            • b4FreeEnergy

              Exactly. This is not at all the problem, people definitely have the desire to seek and find information but with the massive amount of information you have these days, how can you decide which one is simply wrong or manipulated and to be ignored and which one is correct and can be trusted. You cannot be an expert in everything and often need to sense if there is possibly some validity in the information you find.
              Not an easy thing.

            • Hurley

              I get the same response for fellow Engineers. They laugh and say you mean the cold fusion thing. I say it is not cold fusion. No interest.

              • Roger Bird

                This may be cultural evolution in action. Those who don’t get it get left behind.

          • AlainCo

            nassim nicholas taleb in antifragile explain well that too much information blur our hability to take good decision.

            his vision is that too much data lead to too much reasoning and planning, and since we cannot predict well whatever we try, the more we plan the more we get sensible on our errors, thus fragile…

            the secret of the good decision maker is to get less data, just to see where you are fragile, where robust, and where antifragile.
            to invest few bucks/time in trial and errors, or similar asymmetric options with small cost and unlimited risk (or hopeless, but cheap and not artificial-avoid artificial uncertainty) possibility of gain.
            then, and this is the only place where intelligence is useful when we see something unexpected, we can decide if it is positive, and exert our option to benefit from that blackswan…
            this is where practitioners and greedy businessmen are superior because they have no restriction to what they can accept as good, unlike academics who reject what they did not plan.

      • Knstanley7

        dear sir you sure sem to have a bad opinion os 21st centary youth, these kids are smart and computer savvy,and go on line to study everything,and much easyer than backin 1903,give them abrake okay,im 54 years old and althe kids i know would give grown ups a real run for the infomation.

        • Roger Bird

          Information is NOT wisdom.

        • Omega Z

          Kid says, “Dad, your generation knows nothing about new technology”

          Steve Jobs says, “Shut up & get your A55 to school.”

    • Roger Bird

      Human nature improves about as fast as a glacier.