Physics Today on Media Reaction to the 3rd Party Test

An article in Physics Today written by Steven T. Corneliussen, media analyst for the National Institute of Physics looks at the media response to the publication of the 3rd party E-Cat test and singles out Forbes.com as the only major media source showing a positive response. He mentions it is much easier to find criticism of the report, citing articles in MetroNews Canada, the Register, Popular Science, and New Energy Times as examples.

I find this all very interesting and sadly quite predictable. As we have discussed here many times, LENR is not going to spark the imagination of the public unless there is positive reporting of it in the media. I think most people don’t take things seriously unless people and institutions they trust tell them something is true — and this includes many writers for media sources. If the overall response among people with influence in the media is that the report is unfounded, then then many people will accept that and move on without investigating too much further.

I don’t think there is a middle ground with this report. If you are going to take a stand on the report you have two choices: The E-cat is either a powerful new source of energy, or the test was a complete fraud. I find no reason to suspect that fraud was involved, therefore my stance is that a new and highly important form of energy has been discovered, and this deserves attention for obvious reasons. This is the purpose of this site.

I have added a new page to E-Cat World to try and provide concise information about the 3rd party report for people who may be new to the topic. If you have any suggestions on how to improve it or corrections please let me know (comments are closed on the new page).


  • Jordi Heguilor

    Believers desperately want the E-cat to be true. Skeptics like me… ALSO would like the E-cat to be true!

    I don’t mind wiping a little egg off my face, if it means living in an immeasurably better world thanks to the E-cat. But the evidence is just not there.

    • Roger Bird

      It’s not there because you are not looking at it. The three 3rd party tests. All of those demos in 2011. The word of Levi, Focardi, Essen, et. al. The LENR background that has been proven numerous times.

      So the 3rd party testers didn’t dot a few ‘i’. It is a report. Are you saying that they are liars and/or incompetent. That is what you MUST say in order to dispute their conclusions.

      • Jordi Heguilor

        Roger, I’m quite sure the testers are not liars. And quite sure that they are very competent IN THEIR FIELD OF EXPERTISE.

        But having these physicists test a staged demonstration is like sending a biologist to test the disappearance of a tiger from a Vegas stage. Sure, he knows all about tigers, but nothing about stage magic. You send a stage magician to test that claim.

        Considering Rossi’s past, you must admit at least the possibility of a trick.

        • Roger Bird

          Jordi, you are new here. So you are trying to extract credibility from a vacuum. We who have been here for more than 12 months know of these testers. We know that they are completely competent and untouchable. We know that the Rossi phenomena is happening within the bounds of a known and proven phenomena: LENR. We know that other start-ups are reporting that they have working LENR devices, ready or almost ready for market. We know that the testers have put their futures on the line. I know that I would say exactly the same thing that the testers have said about the reality of the E-Cat, but that I would do so with a great deal of trepidation.

          • Jordi Heguilor

            Roger, I may be new here, but I’ve been following the E-cat saga (or comedy) for years. It’s like an atheist and a believer reading the Bible, the more they do it the more the believer believes and the more the atheist laughs.

            I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. That would be the best case scenario for the world. Unfortunately, reality doesn’t care about what we hope for.

            In any case, with money now exchanging hands (sale of distributorships and 1 MW E-cats), we will probably know for sure within a year.

            I bet you a case of beer that a year from now there is no Hot-cat or regular E-cat in the market.

            • Roger Bird

              Bless your independent spirit and courage.

              I don’t drink beer and cannot afford it anyway. There are alcoholics all over my family tree, so I just avoid it. Anyway, I abhor the taste.

              I also doubt that we can remember a bet like that for a whole year, particularly at my age. (:->)

        • JohnM

          What an excellent idea. Let the JRF choose a team to try and substantiate e-cat claims.

    • ico

      If mr. Rossi just made the design public, the truth would be figured out. No, mr. Rossi want to make a lot of profit, and poor mother Earth has to wait for it.

      • Roger Bird

        So. Dr. Rossi gives it all away to the crowd, and he and his wife die in poverty. What a great idea! He works his tail off for more than 6 years with 16 hour days, 7 days a week, and you want him to not be rewarded. I want someone like Rossi to be rich and powerful. I want him to be able to make significant decisions.

        • http://www.pdfernhout.net Paul Fernhout

          If the world becomes a vastly wealthier place materially from cheaper energy through LENR, we will probably all be better off (including Andrea Rossi). Also, if the eCat worked, Rossi would be practically guaranteed jobs for life as a researcher or professor. So, if the eCat really worked, it would be unlikely Rossi would die in poverty as we now know it. As it is, it sounds like Rossi has already lost most control over the eCat by giving up financial control. Here is a letter I wrote to Rossi on that topic of open sourcing the eCat more than two years ago:
          http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Economic_Transformation

          Also, on your other point, even if Rossi was an inventor who found a way to make LENR work (including by hard work), does that mean we want a mechanical/electrical/material inventor, no matter how brilliant, making unilateral decisions about things like, say, social polices?

          The flip side of some people in a society being extremely rich and powerful is that many others tend to be extremely poor and powerless. Is that the world you really think we should be working towards? See for example, a book on economics and equality called “The Spirit Level: Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger”. Or see Marshall Sahlin’s writings on “The Original Affluent Society”.

          If we has something like a global “basic income” for all, then anyone who wanted to invent would have the time to do so.

          • Roger Bird

            Paul, notice that people in the USA are no happier than the people in Burma. Look at the people, not the numbers of bushels of grain or the number of cars. LOOK at the people. I think that the people in Burma are actually happier, despite their dreadful government and economy.

            What will happen, Paul, when LENR energy devices start being used, is that the misery caused by a lack of the fulfillment of needs will be greatly reduced. The misery causes by wallowing in the fulfillment of desires will greatly increase.

            I guarantee this. Misery caused by kardashianitis will greatly increase. Poverty induced misery will greatly decrease.

            • Paul Fernhout

              Roger, yes, that is a great insight, about two different types of misery and how they will change. Studies in the USA have shown that happiness increases with income up to US$75,000 a year, and after that there is not much of a correlation. Certainly there is “The Pleasure Trap” and “Supernormal Stimuli: How Primal Urges Overran Their Evolutionary Purpose” and the “The Acceleration of Addictiveness” (the first two are books, the third an essay).

              See also Suniya S. Luthar’s work like “The Culture of Affluence: Psychological Costs of Material Wealth” where she talks about how in the USA, materially wealth socially isolates people in various ways (including bigger land plots that physically separate neighbors, loss of extended families through a focus on the individual, no chance for others to prove they care by helping in times of trouble, fears others will take their wealth away, fears their children will fail in the competitive jungle they created and related high pressure on kids to “succeed” at abstract tasks, separation from the meaningfulness of basics like nature and performing the support tasks of daily living together with others in the same situation, etc.). If people in places like Burma or Nigeria are happier on average than US Americans, it is for these sorts of reasons — especially family and social connectedness. Still, the Netherlands and various other Western European countries score high on overall happiness to, so you don’t have to be materially poor to be happy — it is more an issue of how wealth is distributed and what the overall social context is in daily living.

              So, yes, you make good points. I also referenced the sci-fi book “Midas World” by Frederik Pohl in my letter to Rossi, which, with a lead story written in the 1950s, was about the development of nuclear fusion and some negative social effects (and where the inventor of fusion was shut out from decision making about the social consequences, finding that all his money did not amount to much when everyone else was wealthy too). So, I have no doubt that there is truth to what you say.

              None-the-less, LENR would make easier a lot of current challenges — recycling with zero emissions, desalinating water, launching space ships to build space habitats, and many others. So, that mood of optimism might have many social benefits, including people feeling less of a need to hoard material wealth the way that Rossi, who has gone through bad periods, seems to feel a need to hoard his apparent success and the related wealth. As I say elsewhere, the biggest challenge of the 21st century is the tools of abundance in the hands of people still thinking in terms of scarcity. Your point is well taken in that context — because with abundance of some things (including energy from LENR), the challenges we face will change.

              • Roger Bird

                I mention Burma because they are hardcore practicing Buddhists while at the same they have a government almost as bad as North Korea and a really bad economy (thanks to the government). When I have seen documentaries of Burma, they seemed very happy. Yet people in America seem unhappy and angry.

                LENR is very, very, very positioned to help poor people and NOT help rich people.

        • Jordi Heguilor

          Rossi and his wife dying in poverty? Not very likely.

          Just the TWO Nobel prizes (Physics or Chemistry) and Peace are worth 4 million dollars.

          And Bill Gates, who gave some seven billions dollars to charity, would be happy to write Rossi a check with eight zeroes on it. He would become the most famous person of the century, and rub elbows with presidents and kings. At a certain level (Pope, Dalai Lama, King of something, Dictator-for-life) money means nothing.

          On the other hand, what if Rossi dies tomorrow and takes the secret to his grave? The solution to humankind’s problem lost because Rossi wanted to make some extra bucks.

          • Roger Bird

            I hope to God that he has recorded his secret and given it to numerous lawyers for safe keeping in case he should die prematurely.

            • Jordi Heguilor

              It’s hard to imagine Rossi, who believes MIT would steal his secrets, giving his secret to… LAWYERS? :-)

  • Magnus

    Maybe it is because not all scientific papers are written in english…in sweden where some independent tests have been made and the reports written in swedish they said they could not explain what happend with conventional science as they could not measure any radiation but the energy they got out far exceeded what they put in…guess braking the law of thermodynamics messes with some people’s perception of the universe.

    Instead of ridiculing people should encourage what he and other scientists and inventors are doing…the bumblebee can fly no matter what you believe…

  • marcel arias

    Most people are getting tied up by what the media is reporting with regard to the report.
    This to me, is of no consequence, what is really important is to see some credible scientific peer review of the report. This is how solid credibility is established.
    Does the facts & figures stand up to scrutiny and validation?
    Was the testing methodology rigorous enough to exclude possibility of fraud?
    It is reasonable to expect Rossi or any other person/entity to impose restrictions to ensure the confidentiality of their IP. It is up to the scientific community to devise a testing methodology within those constraints that would provide a concise and unambiguous set of results.
    The people working with Rossi are under NDAs yet photos where leaked, some might say deliberately, Rossi say different.

  • Roger Bird

    Negative press is better than no press at all. Let the naysayers throw fits all that they want. They help doubly: (1) they spread the word. (2) they set themselves up for a big embarrassment.

  • Rob Lewis

    Yet another reminder of the sad state of what passes for media coverage of science and technology. At least once a month I see an article by a “reporter” who obviously doesn’t understand the difference between kilowatts and kilowatt-hours.

  • Stanny Demesmaker
  • artefact
  • Sciences matters – not media!

    Although media plays an important role in spreading the word it will not change the e-cat. If the e-cat really works it will only be a question of time. I don’t think Rossi’s work will be impacted in either way of positive or negative media.

    • evleer

      Exactly. The big question is: can the scientific establishment afford to keep discrediting LENR as impossible, like they did the last 20 years?

      I mean, how foolish will it make them look when Rossi starts mass production of a device that they always persisted cannot exist, even when testreports suggested otherwise? Don’t you think they will try to avoid being exposed as arrogant, incompetent and narrow-minded at all costs? I’m sure that prospect is keeping some of them awake at night.

      I think it’s not implausible that we can witness more scientist shift toward a more favourable opinion on LENR in the near future. It’s too bad that this shift will be motivated by fear, rather than by curiosity, but the outcome will be the same.

      • Gerrit

        great words !

      • John De Herrera

        “exposed as arrogant, incompetent and narrow-minded”
        This description must extend to cover the pseudoskeptic, who starts off with a strong opinion, then creates an argument to justify that opinion – NO OPEN MIND. jdh

        • psi

          John, I like that clear phrase “starts off with….then creates.” How true indeed.

      • marcel

        Kopernikus did not go public with his theory for 30 years, because he was afraid. Fleischmann and Rossi and many others are not afraid, but still does it take centuries. Even the internet does not help?!

  • artefact

    MFMP will be represented at EU meeting

    http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/general-updates/268-mfmp-will-be-represented-at-eu-meeting

    “.. Hopefully some attendees would like to come and visit one of our experimental sites in order to get a better understanding of the kind of work that is involved. Maybe, just maybe, we can convince them to support our effort in some way.”

  • John

    I can completely understand the critisism. The new test has not really shown anything. It was

    * not performed by completely independent individuals, i.e., persons completely new to the whole e-cat matter;
    * performed in an independent lab; The e-cat could have been sealed to avoid stealing secrets;
    * key characteristics were apparently not measured; Clamping wires is not relieable if you don’t exactly know how the wire is built.

    • kasom

      instead of repeating krivitesq mantra, can You tell us why the Hot Cat is glowing red with shadows of the colder resistors?

      • khawk

        This is the best question I have seen yet if that is in fact what we are seeing. If those shadows are the resistor wires then it is mostly game over as that appears to be the coldest part of the picture – nice one!

        • Al S

          It works. Makes heat.

          You researching scientific proper procedure persons, get in line the rest of us. We will buy and use e-Cats of whatever variety. You can see then how to research yourself.

      • John

        How should I know?

        Different materials show different behaviour when heated. That something is glowing more, or is “more red”, does not necessarily mean it’s hotter. It might as well be a result of the same heat, but a different material. Since I neither know what the resistor was made of, nor the cylinder, and both materials were not tested in the report, there is no way of saying why it’s darker.

        In fact, if the e-cat would really have heated up this far all by itsself, the resistors would heat up with it. They are connected, and heat is conducted quite fast by metal. Meaning that after 1-5 minutes, they would have the same temperature. So, this question would actually go to Rossi: Why are the resistors darker?

        • khawk

          I think that is because they are turned off, as is indicated in the report, for 60+ percent of the time. I think this picture was taken when the resistors are off. The shadow of wires thru a stainless steel metal casing doesn’t leave much to the imagination.

          • John

            Yes, but they should still have the same temperature. Metal conducs heat.

      • Zero

        Very nice call on that.
        +1

    • fortyniner

      What criticism are you referring to? – unless it’s the endlessly repeated quibbles and character assassinations of tro11s and tinfoil-hat ‘skeptics’ who see conspiracy in everything connected with Rossi.

      If that’s the best you can come up with, then please stop wasting everyone’s time, including your own.

    • Roger Bird

      The need for absolute independence is only important for those far removed from the action. Long time followers know (of) these people, and this test is, for me a long time follower of this story, absolute proof.

  • Torbjörn
  • Visitor
    • daniel maris

      Excellent article I think. A very fair summary of where we are. One couldn’t ask for more from a journalist at this point I think.

      • Timar

        That’s irony, isn’t it?

    • Timar

      This article is nothing but a cowardly retreat by Gibbs. He seem to have become afraid of his own courage he has shown in his previous two articles. Who is he to argue with a physicist like Siegel? Well, who is he to argue with all those highly accomplished physicist and chemist who actually *have* a clue about LENR? Siegel, like many other, doesn’t argue as a scientist but as a dogmatic high priest of the brotherhood of Hot Fusionists. What really infuriates me, though, is that he should actually know that. He has been into this and educated by the vortex collective for long enough about LENR. He knows http://www.lenr-canr.org and the cumulative evidence from all the research happening since Fleischmann & Pons.

      If that wasn’t poor enough, at the end of the article he stoops so low as to get downright nasty towards those people at vortex to which he owns so much:

      “I’m going to continue to be skeptical veering towards pessimism as, I believe, anyone with any sense should be.”

      That remark is a brash slap in the faces of such people as Jed Rothwell, whom I always have esteemed as a calm voice of reason in that at times hysterical debate during the last years. No tactical considerations can exuse that.

      • Roger Bird

        I agree. I thought Mark Gibbs seemed to be retreating, like he didn’t trust himself.

        • psi

          We’ve seen this before. He must be under a lot of negative pressure, so we should probably cut him some slack.

  • b4FreeEnergy

    All that denial, it even got a name: “THE SICKNESS OF NONBELIEF” -> CITIZEN HEARING ON DISCLOSURE – STANTON FRIEDMAN”

    Maybe not immediately on topic but it could be more related than one might think at first sight. If they dragged in one of those saucers it would be very interesting to find out what they fly on …

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyvRMZjhanw&feature=youtube_gdata)

  • David
    • LB

      Could you please clarify what the good news is?

      • David

        to match water temperature of the active chamber (with constantan wires) they have to increase power input to the passive reference chamber (with nichrome wires).
        It means that that active chamber produce more heat, so it works.

        • LB

          Thanks David.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Good spot David, unfortunately the data repository raid was down in the US and a software “update” conspired to prevent live data publishing, on this, the second apparently positive experiment on the very simple to grasp differential experiment. We will be putting together a report blog post and it is planned that this will also be presented to EU.

      At some point the gathered data will appear on the repository and people will be able to look at it by reference to the logbook.

      We are planning to have more advanced versions of these cells available for others to join the replication. We also hope to run more using these type of cells. Differential experiments (having an active and control running at the same time) is definitely a good approach.