Recording of Rossi Smart Scarecrow Interview

Here is a recording of today’s interview that Sterling Allan and I conducted with Andrea Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow show. I enjoyed the experience, and as usual found Rossi to be a gracious interviewee despite the number of questions he was not able to answer. This wasn’t terribly surprising to me given statements he has made about a number of items that he considers confidential. Nevertheless I think there was interesting material covered in the interview. He cleared up the fact that his team has made two 1 MW E-Cat plants so far — one went to the military customer, and the other was just shipped the the United States where it will be put to use by his as-yet unidentified partner (first non-military customer) who Rossi says will use it to sell heat to customers.

There was discussion about the recent hot cat picture (a unit that was left in runaway self sustain mode), the new ‘cat and mouse’ hot cat design, the robotized production line which Rossi says is in advanced stages of development, his research team, and other items.

  • Sergio

    Dear Frank, thanks for asking my question about qualifications. The response was rather unexpected because it was jumpy, almost like it caught him off guard or something… The end answer was expected, but it was too vague. Interesting anyway

  • GreenWin

    Despite Rossi’s convoluted interview, the work continues and the reactions reasoned.

    “We’re coming up on three years of watching Mr. Rossi. Most any fraud would have fallen apart long ago. What is actually here for the future is getting less cloudy and a bit clearer for our inspection. If you want to gripe – take it to the patent offices – were these bureaucrats helping we’d have a very complete look.”
    Brian Westenhaus | Wed, 08 May 2013 OilPrice.com

  • Shane D.

    Before this interview we were generally confused. Afterwards we are even more confused. With Rossi nothing ever seems to be clear. It’s one contradiction after another. One fabrication after another.

    Last week someone asked: why Sterling? Why not someone more mainstream ? Now we know why…. Rossi stays away from people asking difficult questions. He censors his media contacts like he censors his JONP. This does not instill trust.

    I grow more frustrated, and angry with him with each new communications. Perhaps he should just shut up? Surely he isn’t helping his image with his behavior.

    • Andy Kumar

      “Surely he isn’t helping his image with his behavior”

      or the master copy’s reputation as a skilled sculptor.

      As the book says, “God made Man in his own image”. The skeptic says, “what a poor image”.

    • Betuswonkel

      I agree, maybe it would be better like e.g. Celani or Brillouin not to give any interviews.

      What really bothers me though is that mr. Sterling clearly does not know anything about the subject. He reports on energy matters a lot but he does not seem to care enough to read the literature. For instance, he started out with saying that the energy comes transmutations. This is not supported by any evidence. Transmutations (of metals) seem to be a side effect and not the main source of energy. I think he should start reading mr. Storms book:
      ‘Science of Low Energy Nuclear Reaction: A Comprehensive Compilation of Evidence and Explanations about Cold Fusion’ before conduction any more interviews on the matter.

  • GreenWin

    Following the Edison Electric Inst. report on Distributed Energy Resources and the disruption they will bring to utilities – even the U.S. Department of Energy now endorses the use of off-grid CHP systems. In a report written for DOE OAK RIDGE NATIONAL LABORATORY by ICF International – Distributed Energy Resources in the form of CHP systems are recommended to mitigate severe power losses during rolling blackout and storms.

    “CHP systems are comprised of on-site electrical generators (primarily fueled with natural gas)that achieve high efficiency by capturing heat, a byproduct of electricity production that would otherwise be wasted. The captured heat can be used to provide steam or hot water to the facility for space heating, cooling, or other processes.”

    While this report makes no mention of LENR, it is yet another mainstream acknowledgment that the present centralized grid system is outdated and vulnerable to catastrophic failure. Drop in several LENR modules to replace the gas-fired boiler and CHP reduces electrical and heating/cooling costs by as much as 75-80%.

    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/manufacturing/distributedenergy/pdfs/chp_critical_facilities.pdf

  • http://marivic.com.do Omar Gomez

    The only hope we have here is someone else find out how it work and put rossi out of his non existence bussines.

    Just sell the damn reactor to the manufactures!!. If it really work. This will be another inteligentry scam.

  • Felix Fervens

    What struck me was that ordered e-cats require 4 months construction time.

    At a possible 3 units max per year to hush-hush clinets only, when is this revolution going to start?

    Perhaps when the independent report goes public?

    I wish Rossi would just issue a full explicit patent application followed shortly by public disclosure of his method. If real, the frenzy of investors lining up to fund production would quickly make him the richest man in the world. Why creep along selling 3 Cold Cats a year?

    • GreenWin

      You assume LENR is an astonishing disruptive technology. We can see from this interview it is making measurable progress toward commercial implementation. Why would or should such progress be given away before its discoverers reap some material benefit? We are aware that Dr. Rossi and other CF researchers have suffered at the hands of a corrupt scientific/political establishment. We do not yet live in a non-material world, alone.

    • Bob

      Selling 3 ecats per year? That’s highly optimistic.
      I am pretty sure in the last two years there has been produced only one ecat and it is still in Italy, to be sent maybe to USA, or maybe not as it may well turn out.
      And as to it being sold to a cash paying customer, well not really. It was sold to his new american partner, whih means out of the left pocket and into the right pocket. Not really a genuine sale in my book.

  • GreenWin

    A little more progress in LENR theory:

    “Using the atomic models derived in BSM-SG theory, Sarg theoretically shows that overcoming the Coulomb barrier does not require a temperature of millions of degrees, rather an accessible temperature by using properly selected isotopes and technical methods. Furthermore, it is possible to obtain nuclear energy with a lack of minimum radioactive by-products.” Sarg

    http://www.amazon.com/Structural-Physics-Nuclear-Fusion-BSM-SG/dp/1482620030/

  • artefact
    • GreenWin

      Marco
      May 7th, 2013 at 12:06 PM

      If the Hot cat is stable between 330 and 400 C, why do you limit the output to 350 C? Is it because the turbine that you are using for testing is limited to 350 C steam?
      Andrea Rossi
      May 7th, 2013 at 3:08 PM

      Dear Marco:
      Yes, the system is perfect at 350 ( so far).
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

  • Kim

    They want to be able to make money without
    exposing the intellectual property.

    How do you do that?

    That is what is causing this clandestine behavior
    with everyone involved.

    Its not productive.

    Either Shelf it or get on with it…

    Respect
    Kim

    • GreenWin

      Kim, it is not just $$ that constrains this development. It is geopolitical power. The advent of clean, abundant, low low cost energy derails most of the petroleum power structure. Those who have plenty of money, still fight for positions of power. It is the work of the inflated ego.

      • Kim

        Part may be ego, but geo politcal power
        equates again to money.

        Respect
        Kim

        • GreenWin

          It would be interesting to see a social model where individual community value provides access to goods and services sans monetary exchange. More abstract is an abundant world where conscious attention manifests as matter of fact. Neither are offered in the current model, where social contributions are taken for granted, or discounted as the actions of unrealistic bleeding hearts.

      • http://www.Revolution-Green.com Ken Lebrun

        I recently interviewed a developer for an article over at (http://www.revolution-green.com) and found out about a very interesting conversation he had with a petroleum company CEO. I can’t say what this developer is working on just yet but I can discuss a few things we talked about.

        The phone call this guy had was for the purpose of discussing a business proposition but some interesting things came from it that shocked me. First of all the developer (lets just call him D) asked this CEO…why would an oil company be interested in acquiring clean technology? According to D, the CEO told him that “20 years ago the oil industry supplied pretty much 100% of the world’s energy needs. But today, we cover roughly 50% and we cannot keep up with the demand.” D went on and joked about how he was wondering whether he should be worried or not. The CEO actually said…”20 years ago, attempting to bring such a device to market would have been (HAZARDOUS) maybe even 10 years ago. But things have changed and we only control 50% of the energy needs of the world.”

        So what I got from this was that, because the oil companies can no longer keep up with the supply and demand…they want to buy in on these new technologies rather than kill them off! Maybe things will change sooner than we think. 😛

    • Jesse

      This is too important for humanity to let it controlled by individuals/governments seeking political power and money. Someone needs to “out” the full design, processes and materials involved to the public.

  • http://www.kaltefusion.tk/blog barty

    What I don’t understand is:
    Why buys his partner (aka “the first civil customer”) his 1MW plant from bologna if the same partner is currently in possession of Rossi’s IP and is able to build their own ones, and should be able to build millions of plants for “real” customers in the near future?

    Rossi excactly responded something like this a few weeks or months ago on the JONP.
    And now this powerfull customer with the infrastructure to build large amounts of ecats uses a prototype ecat plant to sell heat???

    I hope the report is coming soon, because my trust in Rossi is decreasing since this interview yesterday 🙁

    • GreenWin

      Let’s see, world’s first nuclear reactor, the Chicago Pile-1 (CP-1) was demonstrated in December 1942. The reactor capacity was less than 1 W with a brief maximum of 200 W. Focus was entirely on military applications for the next decade and longer – it was not until 1954 the Navy’s Nautilus sub was launched, using a small PWR. The three year cost of the Manhattan Project was $20 billion. The next decade of nuclear R&D clearly doubled or tripled this amount.

      Had these type dollars been applied to the development of e-cat technology the last two years… I would expect to see lots more than a second gen warm-cat and a hot and gas-cat prototype. But, hey, the R&D budget for the e-cat is most likely less than $5M.

      That’s NON-taxpayer e-cat dollars I would add.

      • Bob

        Yes but nobody claimed they had a nuclear reactor heating their laboratory for two years prior to the first demonstration.
        And nobody claimed they had “working products” “ready for market” while not actually producing anything.
        In fact the demonstration of the first real nuclear product came as a bit of surprise to everybody. Specially the Japanese.
        Apparently they were not convinced by the first demonstration so a second was thought necessary.

        • GreenWin

          Bob, people and corporations make lots of claims and promises to garner interest in and sell their products. Are all of them true or verifiable? Areva (SA) and Siemens AG promised to build the Olkiluoto-3 reactor for 4B Euro; it is now at 8B Euro and SEVEN years over-schedule. And that is TAXPAYER money, not self-funded money. In fact the entire fusion R&D and fission industry has lied, phonied up, misled, or bamboozled the global public out of billions $$ to sell product or continue funding:

          http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-06/nuclear-fights-loss-of-credibility-in-europe-westinghouse-says.html

          By comparison, Mr. Rossi’s tepid claims are merely optimistic and harmless.

          • John Littlemist

            About 85% of Olkiluoto-3 ownership is private, rest is public (municipalities etc.)

            • GreenWin

              Thanks John.

    • Bob

      They might want it as a museum piece so in 50 years time they can demonstrate their humble beginnings.
      Apart from that I can’t think of any reason because from all later announcements, the technology is supeceded by later developments.

    • Redford

      I am sorry but that’s a crazy question.

      “Partner”, if he exists, brings some form of mean of production to the table while Leonardo brings R&D. If the very first thing it does is exploit it in a way that doesn’t bring money to Leonardo’s efforts, it’s obviously a steal for Leonardo. You can be sure there are details in their agreement (if it’s genuine) preventing that and more generally specifying what partner can do. What Rossi said is that partner knows ecat’s secret, not that he can use it to do anything and rob Rossi’s blind.

      This is another case of “things working as should be expected but isn’t expected on the base of false assumption”. Here the false assumption is that if partner knows the secret he can legally, ethically, strategically make profit of it. Actually it’s even doubtful he can build one. It’s one thing to know the secret and another to be able to build stuff to working level.

      Now why would they pay the prototype ? Because they need it, and because it has value. Yes, a simple hypothesis indeed.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Is Protecting Intellectual Property thwarting the development of LENR? From Dr. Rossi’s answers in this interview the obvious answer to this question is, YES. The logical question is why can’t Dr. Rossi get protection from patent laws, to protect his intellectual property. The reasons could be bureaucratic or political or both. Who can correct this situation? Our elected officials: but only if those of us interested and aware of the situation make it a hot enough topic to make them act.

    • lenrdawn

      As far as I can see, the reason is neither political nor bureaucratic but simply an insufficient application.

      • GreenWin

        Until just recently the USPTO refused to accept any patent apps suggestive of non-conventional, non-classical physics. That has changed now:

        http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/04/uspto-grants-patent-for-system-for-generating-particles/

        Note the recipient is U.S. Navy and JWK International Inc. based on the SPAWAR research now classified or transferred.

        • lenrdawn

          “Until just recently the USPTO refused to accept any patent apps suggestive of non-conventional, non-classical physics.”

          That is simply not true. (patents.google.com should help).

          • GreenWin

            I refer to apps suggesting non-classical nuclear physics/fusion, e.g. “hydrino.” And by “accept” I mean to “issue” a patent.

            But I hope to be corrected. I am aware the W-L gamma shield patent suggests some unconventional physics, but nothing non-classical indicating fusion at low temperature.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Or, he does not feel confident enough about the patent system to feel protected enough to reveal all in patent application? In other words he is afraid, and rightfully so, that it will be stolen.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      My point is pretty simple, the reason we have patent laws is to protect intellectual property and allow the recipient of a patent to proceed with commercialization with protection. It appears to me it is not working.

  • GreenWin

    Admittedly the volume of new information gleaned from this interview was not great. It appeared to consist of answers filtered by constant self-censorship, calculating how not to void several layers of confidentiality agreements. In all likelihood there is a rather confining agreement with the military (a), another with Leonardo’s corporate partner, yet another with the third party test group, and one with Leonardo/e-cat licensees. Add to this industry standard NDAs signed simply to have conversations between parties, and the purpose of a live interview is questionable. Agreed to by Rossi probably due to completion of his warm-cat shipping goal.

    Confirmed or not denied was the following, unweighted in any manner:

    1) The unit shipped to partner is a re-build of the original 2011 test 1MW warm-cat, enhanced by R&D in the interim.

    2) The unit shipped to partner will be installed and used to generate heat capable of being sold as a commodity or service.

    3) A second warm-cat has been purchased by a military customer. Strict confidentiality applies.

    4) The hot-cat photo from Passerini is valid, real and indicates the extreme to which this new hot-cat reactor design can be pushed without failure.

    5) The hot-cat is designed to operate with long term stability at 350C.

    6) The hot-cat design is ready to assemble into a modular unit producing 1MW thermal used in a steam cycle capable of powering combined or single cycle off-the-shelf turbines.

    7) A party of independent academics have run a series of tests on both warm and hot-cat units (the latest in March of 2013) and are not contradictory of Rossi/Focardi; Kullander or Essen-type claims (i.e. an “unknown” nuclear reaction takes place.)

    8) Work continues on hot-cat electrical generation via conventional (Carnot) means, though there is indication of an anomalous electrical effect from the plasma/nuclear reaction within the e-cat.

    (a) Military confidentiality is so high as to have shut down the SPAWAR LENR program immediately following the October 28th 1MW test in Bologna. Some former team members now operate under civilian auspices. U.S. Navy was recently issued one of the first USPTO patents for cold fusion.

    Filler items like nickel powder lattice “consumption” and team personnel add little of substance. Meanwhile, the march to Distributed Energy Resources continues unabated:

    “…those of us excited about the prospect of new empowering innovations — innovations that, according to Clay Christensen, “transform costly and complicated products into simpler, cheaper products available to the many,” and that create jobs “because they require more and more people who can build, distribute, sell and service these products” — the rise of DER [Distributed Energy Resources] technologies is excellent news.” National Review, April 10, 2013

    http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/345263/potential-impact-distributed-energy-resources-reihan-salam

    • NJT

      For what the statement is worth, he also mentioned that Siemens Engineering is currently involved in the electricity production phase of the “hot cat”…

    • GreenWin

      I would add that The National Review, founded by William F. Buckley, is an instrument of western conservatism. It is fairly surprising that conservatives are now embracing the new energy paradigm, even in instances BEFORE liberal greens.

    • Karl

      A good summary. It showed Rossi as the innovator he is with all his possibilities and difficulties. The interview indicated that the US partner might not be one of the current top multinationals. In fact this is probably much better. Rossi seem to have fairly free hands still. A reasonably sized partner with right technical skills, market penetration capability and smartness with ambition grow rather than maintain position, seems to me a much better option for Rossi and the continuation of the E-Cat saga.

    • Peter_Roe

      Thanks for that GW. I haven’t listened to the interview as I no longer tend to accept all Rossi’s claims without reservation, but your summary presents a coherent story that feels about right. As Admin’s topic heading said, ‘expectations low, hopes still (fairly) high’.

      As Agent Mulder said – “I want to believe”.

      • GreenWin

        Peter, it takes inordinate patience and interpretive powers to sift through the chaff of this and other Rossi pronouncements. Giving interviews under layers of confidentiality agreements, appears unwise without professional planning and direction.

        I suspect the e-cat reactor core is sound. The external design has radically changed (hot-cat) and this small, self-funded team of developers is hard pressed to meet demands. I am resigned to wait for an industrial customer to verify; and to temper expectations of independent reports due to external pressures to contain it, or its content.

        Mulder was indeed on to something unusual.

    • artefact

      Thx GW.

  • Barry

    I appreciate the interview. Bottom line, CF is in the research and development stage moving along at a snail’s pace. I now join those who have patient expectations as far as products coming to market.

    • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

      How did three e-cats become one e-cat?

      • GreenWin

        Good question Joe. Was it one complete 1MW warm-cat plus a hot-cat and gas-cat prototype? That’s what was implied.

  • R101

    I had a chuckle when Rossi reconnected at the beginning 🙂

  • Al

    After listening to the interview I’m wondering again who the US partner could be. Here’s what we know:

    US incorporated
    Mid-sized company: CEO (male) can spend hours with Rossi so not a GE or Siemens but can discuss large scale manufacturing plans so not too small either
    Sells heat
    Strong manufacturing and engineering expertise – not a utility
    Significant China presence (again: not a utility)
    Does not sell turbines (Siemens can still get that business)

    Doing some digging among listed companies A.O. Smith and Lennox International look like good candidates but this is pure guesswork.

    • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

      Who buys heat?

      • artefact

        google and others to cool their server farms?

        • Roger Bird

          I don’t understand how heat can create cold, other than to create electricity and power air conditioners. Could someone please explain that to me or post me a link that will explain it?

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            Google, for example, propane refrigerator

        • Al

          There’s a commercial heating market, for example in food manufacturing or district heating, maybe also absorption chillers. At 120C there’s no electricity production yet so it would make sense for him to partner with someone who is big in that sector to build some sales and fund continued R&D. They can then together go after the big prize of electricity production next. Both of these companies cover both commercial and domestic markets so could help him with the domestic certification process.
          When Rossi yesterday said that the company would sell the heat I’m imagining an installation at a nearby customer who has contracted out the heat generation entirely to the engineering company: the customer pays by the kWht, the engineering company looks after everything else, which is what is needed with such an early stage product.

      • Linda

        Lots of people would buy heat… Hospitals, Universities and others who currently use oil during the winter. I take it you’ve never lived anywhere in the United States north of Miami. 😉

      • Peter_Roe

        “Who buys heat?”

        Apart from space heating and general process heat, large amounts of low grade heat are required in many industries such as food and confectionary production, milk pasteurisation, oil refining, shale oil extraction, chemicals manufacture, laundries, biofuel production, paper making, plastics production, injection moulding, electroplating, brewing, pharmaceutical manufacturing and so on.

  • Steve

    Here is my view – for what it’s worth.
    I consider that the first reactors and units were basically a DIY job.
    Once he had experienced, professional input and real world failures – THEY modified the design.
    Further research is providing tantalising insights into what it may be capable of and any serious customer is going to want the maximum Bang-For-Buck.
    If you heap on top of all that – the fact that THEY are semi-paranoid (and rightly so) about the intellectual property being stolen – the whole story begins to make sense.
    It is also much easier to re-design and hone your product at this stage than it is once you have sold thousands of units.
    We all hate it when we are first to buy into new technology items and discover that a year later there is a much better, cheaper product available from the same company.
    Most people in modern times must have experienced this. It wasn’t so in the seventies and eighties.

    That’s one view-point.
    The other is that this is one of the most convincing and elaborate fakes in recent time and we have all been had.

    • John Milstone

      The other is that this is one of the most convincing and elaborate fakes in recent time and we have all been had.

      By “we have all been had”, I guess you mean the few hundred enthusiasts who have collected together to reenforce their shared belief.

      • Steve

        That would also have to include many eminent scientists, engineers and technicians. These are not typically gullible people.
        To be negative in life is an easy job – to be positive, enquiring and open-minded is a mature, advanced approach.
        It doesn’t mean that you have to believe, blindly and whole-heartedly.

        • lenrdawn

          I agree. Levi would be dead (professionally). Focardi is an old man but it would still make his remaining time on earth the most miserable imaginable – not a nice thought. Essen and Kullander could probably get out of this without their names shunned (they covered themselves in disclaimers for whatever they said about the e-cat). Not sure which engineers and technicians you mean. I remember that guy who spoke at the conference in Zurich… anybody else?

          • Steve

            The engineers and technicians I refer to are the facilitators who actually build and commission the modules, container units and accompanying instrumentation. These people are quite capable of detecting a fraud as well as anyone else – though I must admit; they don’t expose their reputation as such.

            • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

              They are even harder to fool than scientist with pet theories, and pet certainty.

              An engineer understand a system to see if all parts are useful for the goal. they detect frauds by seing unjustified elements, and reverse engineer all they see.

              as an engineer proverbs says :
              optimistic says glass is half full.
              pessimistic says it is half empty.
              engineer says it is twice too big for the need.

              (and a MBA says that you can put more in.)

              • lenrdawn

                To be fair, they wouldn’t have to be fooled. They’re assembling electric heaters, basically, and as long as they’re not involved in interpreting the data, there could be no nuclear reaction at all as far as they’re concerned. As I understand Rossi, both, the hot and the warm e-cat could theoretically reach their operating temperatures under electric/gas power alone. So as an engineer, you wouldn’t know and wouldn’t have to know where the energy comes from. I think that would be different for the electronics. You can’t easily write and test software designed to throttle a reaction when that reaction never happens. So they would probably have to know.

              • Iggy Dalrymple

                AlainCo: as an engineer proverbs says :
                optimistic says glass is half full.
                pessimistic says it is half empty.
                engineer says it is twice too big for the need.

                (and a MBA says that you can put more in.)

                And for most of us: “For now, we see through a glass darkly.”

            • Ash

              If this is an elaborate fraud by Rossi, it is possible these people don’t exist in great numbers, are dupes, or are in on the fraud. Who knows who built the original units? Rossi has kept all of the names except for two employees under wraps, and there is nobody listed on LinkedIn etc.

              A lot of the work on the original container eCat looked very amateurish, and some of the people Rossi hired had no experience in the field e.g. the ‘engineer’ whose background was casino software.

              There were plenty of people working at Steorn, Blacklight Power, EEstor and other failed free energy ventures, so I don’t think this is a valid data point.

              • lenrdawn

                Minor point: EEstor is not a free energy venture. Their claims are in full agreement with what main stream science thinks is theoretically possible (although apparently not in agreement with what could be achieved in the real world).

                • Ash

                  I should have said that EEstor is a ‘fringe energy’ venture. Their claims for their supercapacitor based on a novel barium titanate dielectric exceeds the known energy capacity of that substance by at least an order of magnitude. I’ve been following EEstor closely for years, and at one time there was a group of hundreds of fervent believers at TheEEstory.com (plus a handful of skeptics). Now it’s down to the final months of the saga and it’s not clear if EEstor even have a capacitor which is slightly better than current tech, let alone a revolutionary energy storage unit.

                  There are some similarities between EEstor and Rossi – Dick Weir, the CEO of EEstor said he was building prototype units on a manufacturing line in 2009, but this turned out to be a lie. Whatever his motiviations, ZENN, the public Canadian company that owns the rights to the EEstor tech for use in passenger vehicles, appears to have become a vehicle for a stock pump and dump scam where the ‘true believers’ have been left holding worthless stock.

                • Fibb

                  wait until May 27th before passing judgement on eestor.

          • http://www.zazzle.com/energyrevolution Tony McDougall

            Lenrdawn, you certainly didn’t hold back with your prophesy for Focardi! I hope you are wrong.

            • lenrdawn

              I hope so too. Just imagine having dedicated your life to a dream and when it finally seems to come true you have to discover that you “have been had”, as Steve put it (and you’re too old to do anything about it). What a sad way to go that would be.

      • Eric

        Admin:

        You should add milstone to your ban-list immediately. This is one of the nutcases who first got banned from vortex, then he moved on to ecatnews where he were allowed to puke his flat earth crap all over that site. milstone is all about spreading FUD, get him out of here. Please!

        • Silvio Balatelli

          Give me a break. censorship and mobbying is one of the reasons why nobody outside this community can take this sage seriously any longer.

        • Peter_Roe

          I also think that an immediate ban is appropriate in this case. ‘John Milstone’ is a long term shill or pathological skeptic who has infested virtually every blog linked to CF for years, contributing nothing except repetitive and unrelentingly negative comments. A quick perusal of ECN or now wavewatching.net will indicate the destructive posting behaviour we can expect if he is permitted to continue.

          His modus operandi is simply to repeatedly post opinionated dismissals and accusations of malfeasance of one kind or another. While supporters waste their time attempting to refute such comments, any real discussion becomes swamped by the noise. It is a simple but effective strategy, as witnessed by the polarisation and pointless circular accusation-refutation cycles that brought ECN down long before its final ignominious end, to which Milstone was a major ‘contributor’.

          He is obviously testing the water to see what, if anything, he can get away with here. Admin, I am aware that censorship is not your style, but in this case I would urge you to make an exception. I think it would be most unfortunate if he is allowed to continue with his experiment, and especially if he, or others of a similar kind, are allowed to establish a foothold on this blog.

          • GreenWin

            +1 pure shillery.

          • NJT

            +2
            Yes Peter, there is no doubt about Milstone’s intentions which is to destroy this forum, as he contributed with ECN’s demise…

          • GreenWin

            It appears “bob” here is another infection from the handwaving site. Remarks are all specious, critical and devoid of edifying content.

      • Methusela

        Limit his posts, perhaps, but not ban him.

        Milstone is incorrect wrt hundreds, there are thousands 🙂

        I remember trying to comment on the Cocktail Party Physics blog entry here:

        http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cocktail-party-physics/2012/10/29/genie-in-a-bottle-the-case-against-cold-fusion/

        And having all the comments removed.

        Post limiting is a good idea, post removal because you don’t like what they say, is not.

      • Anony Mole

        John, drop me a line, @gmail, will connect w/real name.

    • lenrdawn

      If I had a technology like this, I wouldn’t try to build products at all. I’d shut up about it, concentrate 100% on getting the patent(s) approved, publicly demonstrate beyond doubt that the technology works and then license it out to whoever is willing to pay. When I hear Rossi talking about his team (two specialists for this, three for that, one for the other thing) and throw in his rather chaotic business style, I can’t help getting the impression that he’ll never get anywhere with this – even IF the technology works. When he started talking about his partner, I thought that there may be some hope for serious professionalism in bringing this desperately needed technology to the world but after the interview I am convinced that we’ll still be here in 2015 speculating about whether he has ever actually delivered anything to anybody.

      • Silvio Balatelli

        Perhaps the assumption is wrong. Imagine that Rossi would not have a product, no team, no customers and no 3rd party examination. That is why we never see any confirmations of anything.
        Possibly he had some lucky experiments early (which he never understood), built on Focardi´s work. Or he never had anything, just saw the crazy community dreaming and started a hype. Therefore he acts like he does, asks via blogs to get input for new concepts and tries to attract investors and licencees.

        • lenrdawn

          Of course, yes. The usual “IF this is true”… forget to attach it sometimes since it is so obvious.

        • Peter_Roe

          I really think that we need some kind of permanent information base that can be cited in response to mor*onic suggestions like this, as it would be very tedious to spell out the real evidence (as opposed to what Rossi has claimed) each time someone comes up with this vacuous idea.

          But lets just take one thing we know exists – the 1MW container unit that has now made several appearances in various circumstances. We’ve seen pictures and video of the interior, and it is definitely not made out of cardboard – it is clearly a complex plant that contains numerous subunits, electrical systems, valves and pipework, and will have taken a lot of money and many man-hours to build. So, Silvio, perhaps you could start by explaining where this unit came from, if the entire story exists only in Rossi’s imagination?

          • GreenWin

            Interesting to watch the everready bunny deniers jump in at the slightest hint of doubt. Devilish isn’t it? YES, you are correct Peter, there is a very large data base of known facts including the appearance in Bologna 2011 of a large group of respected scientists and industry reps, all of whom got to witness the 1MW warm-cat produce 450kW+ heat.

            These type comments should be moderated (not that Frank has time) to emphasize this blog’s disinterest in backtracking shillery.

          • Jim

            “permanent information base” could be collaboratively constructed on LENRConnect. Needs a group, a discussion to capture ideas for an outline, and a page where the outline ideas can be coallated. Or something similar in Google docs. I’d set it up however I haven’t in past efforts been able to muster much crowd sourcing of this sort from the e-catworld group. Generational?

            • Omega Z

              Also Geographical- Time Zones
              Individual Schedules.

              A Great Concept,
              Very complex to Orchestrate.

    • Blanco69

      +1. Good analysis Steve. It highlights the probability that there will be many more twists and turns before we see something tangible. There’s a real possibilty that there a group of hard core business people shaking with fear every time Rossi makes a public comment.

      • clovis

        Where would you get that idea, rossi is one of the smartest business strategist i have ever read about, it stupid to say he is not, sorry but it’s obvious that you know nothing about how commerce works, i would love to see the wreck you guys would incur if you were in charge, boy, boy,i’v heard some crap in my time but this takes the cake.

        • Omega Z

          +1

          Due to my real life experiences, The Only thing I would do different if I were Rossi would be to say much less.

          I would also Note that this is still heavily in the R&D Stage.
          Even the early customers is of R&D level. Go Slow & determine problems to fix before Mass distribution.
          Many here are of the Opinion to pump out as many as possible as fast as possible. A Sure Fire way to end up in a Bottomless Pit. Major problems discovered down line would Equal Major Recall & Possibly Billions in Legal Liabilities. Major Repercussions.
          The Damage caused could delay LENR for another 20 to 30 years.

          In Our Time Frame- This seems a Slow & Tedious Process.
          In Real World Development to Market, The E-cat is moving along Remarkably Fast.

          I’ll Admit tho, I Hope it moves faster real soon. About Two more Fukushima Disasters & None of this matters. Except we may need it to get of this Dieing Radioactive Rock.

  • Blanco69

    I’m going to have to watch the recording again. I listened live last night but found myself totally distracted by some intense trolling going on in the chat room. I’m not sure if we’re any further forward today but then again, I dont think it’s Rossi’s job to get us further forward. I dont think we should be dirstacted by issues regarding how many units are sold/delivered/promised/pictured/shipped etc. The fact that Rossi claims such units even exist is the key aspect in all this. Things dont always go to plan so maybe 13 1MW units did become 2 and maybe a million robots did beoome a small scale production line. If this invention is true, Rossi will have people making all kinds of promises to him. Trolls are using these side issues as proof that Rossi is a fraud.
    To them I say this: The day you can PROVE that a victim of a Rossi ecat fraud exists will be the day I walk away.
    Until then…onwards. Sorry, rant over.

  • artefact

    thanks to pagnucco on Vortex:

    Scientists must Study the Nuclear Weak Force to Better Understand LENR

    http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Scientists-must-Study-the-Nuclear-Weak-Force-to-Better-Understand-LENR.html

    “Recent theories that explain many of the phenomena observed in low energy nuclear reactions (LENR) implicate the weak force. We are now at the stage where theory and experiment begin to complement each other to allow for the rapid transformation of the new science of LENR.”

    • GreenWin

      Very interesting. David Niebauer, writes The Daily Energy Report, an oil industry insider newsletter sold to investors and market consultants. More and more market prediction followers write about LENR these days. This very informative article will assuredly be seen by major players in the energy industry – raising awareness that all is about to change dramatically.

  • Bob

    Sorry to say but that was one and a half hours of my life wasted.
    Rossi said nothing that he hasn’t been saying for the last two years.
    Almost all of what he said was nothing more than foam packing. Lots of volume and very little weight.
    Everything that he didn’t say two years ago still remains unsaid.
    I did notice however that he has a very good comprehension of the English language so the vague and ambiguous answers he often gives on JONP are not due to problems with the language.
    I think all questions which might have given us some insight into his thinking, such as ‘why has no test ever been done which simply boils a barrel of water?’, were purposely avoided so as not to get him off side. By doing this we are simply smoothing the path for him to continue singing the same old song.
    There was one admission however, as has already been posted here; Finally he states there have only been two 1Mw plants sold when previous proclamations were that 13 were sold and scheduled for delivery last year.
    I now have no doubt in fact that none have been delivered to any secret military customer, which is why he is so vague on the performance specifications gathered over the thousands of hours it is said to have been in operation. (Yes I know; He is under no obligation to report anything.)
    I firmly believe the plant we see in the released pictures is the one and only plant in existence.
    I think it will probably be the only one we see for a long time to come.

    • dzejk

      Bob, I agree, this is getting ridiculous. Lots of blogging, promisses, interviews, tv shows but ZERO amount of credible information. It is almost summer and still no 3rd party report.

      • GreenWin

        There is plenty of credible LENR information dzejk. This Rossi interview does little to dampen the activity indicated by this summer’s ICCF-18 at University of Missouri and the SKINR center there:

        http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/

  • Dickyaesta

    He did say “….WHEN the tsunami arrives, we need to be prepared …..” not IF(just under the letter P of the Word Presentation in the video if you want to verify) very hopefull indeed!!!

  • John Littlemist

    It was interesting to hear that Rossi has hired 2 persons from his followers based on their expertise.

    I have also hinted Rossi about a document that I consider to have a significant value to him. I posted my tip to JONP over a year ago.

    My post never appeared publicly to JONP, but I could see that it went to moderation.

    I’m glad that I have been part of the crowdsourcing effort that has helped Rossi.

    • clovis

      +1

  • guga

    I was shocked about his Nickel consumption calculations. He calculates as if Nickel nuclei in an ecat would be 100% changed into energy. He should know better. Or doesn´t he? I have no idea what to think about that.

    • Lennart

      He never said that, he just explained that according to E=mc2 (the relation between material and energy) how much energy is in 1 gram of matter. It was a theoretical answer, he was making jokes that it would not have to be Nickel it could be marmelade…

      So you missunderstood my friend

      • guga

        He did say that. Maybe we will get a transcript some time and it will be easier to argue. Rossi made a calculation how much nickel an ecat would use over time. But nickel cores can not “vaporize” into energy, but are, possibly, transmutated. The energy gained from such a reaction is much smaller than the energy equivalent of the whole nickel nuclei. Still, the new cores, maybe copper, are not nickel any more. So that nickel has been consumed, but producing far less energy than Rossi has calculated.
        Sterling writes “Rossi said that these plants consume only 1 gram of Nickel for every 23 gigawatt-hours of heat they produce”. That is what Rossi said and that can not be true and that is why I was shocked (and still am).

      • clovis

        +1

      • http://www.zazzle.com/energyrevolution Tony McDougall

        If Einstein had proposed an experiment to prove that his E=mc^2 equation was correct, I’m sure he would have used marmalade jam.

    • Stone

      How can someone so ignorant have invented a revolutionary technology?
      In whose hands we are?
      What about the interviewer SA, he too high imprepared on many arguments.

    • Pedro

      As Rossi explained, he was only pointing out how little mass is consumed over a given period. It doesn’t matter if that comes from nickel atoms that are used up 100%, or from a large number of atoms that transmutate and lose 0.000000001% of their mass. The end effect is that charge of the ecat loses only a very little mass which Is not measurable.

      • guga

        I get what you mean, but that is not what counts in this setting. Certainly the loss of mass is very small, but we are talking about the consumption of nickel. Because Rossi was asked about nickel consumption and he also talked about nickel consumption. If nickel is transmutated to let´s say copper, I don´t know, it may be useless for further reaction. But the mass loss from this reaction will be small. Still high enough for a lot of energy, but far away from Rossi´s calculations. So the consumption of nickel must be far higher.

        • clovis

          wrong,,, again,

          • Guga

            If you would let me know what you think is wrong, that would help.

            • clovis

              well, ok, this is only my conclusions, that nothing is consumed, but it is changed or transmuted into copper, and very little is changed, hardly detectable.because only that amount is needed to produce 350 degree,thermal, product, if more thermal energy is needed then the whole thing is scaled up to meet that requirement.
              The way i see it is, no fundamental laws have been broken, energy is allowed to change form. and all mass is energy,this was mentioned by Dr. Rossi in his marmalade jam comment.
              So, there is some new stuff going on here, that has not been identified yet, that will take some time, and i personally feel that the transmutation of matter is of high priority. could be a way to consume toxic waste, into something green, for starters.
              So, there, the best i can do, sorry didn’t mean to sound rudd.

    • Mikey

      Agreed, firstly, the actual ideal energy would be (mass_starting_nickel – mass_ending _ash)*c^2. Then of course there is the losses due to heat leakage, as well as the probability that the catalyst would reduce in activity long before you used it all out.

    • Betuswonkel

      He was asked how much nickel is consumed in the reactor. Since energy production is the only way in which nickel can be consumed i.e. lost from the reactor i think he is correct on that one. It does not mean all the nickel is transferred to energy.
      Sterling could have better asked what is in the reactor e.g. a powder? how much nickel,isnt a powder dangerous etc., what are the end product e.g. transmutation, helium production and why the reactor becomes inactive and needs to refueled after some period of time. Obviously not all nickel is transferred to energy because refueling would then not be necessary within 6 months.

    • Don PA

      Agreed.

      Can someone fully explain the use of E=mc^2 in an LENR reaction, once the reaction has started from an outside energy source? (E = all forms of energy, namely: heat and radiation in all forms and m = all sources of mass, namely: nickle, hydrogren, catalyst, ??) Does this fully explain the nickle consumption question?

      And, how does “time” factor into this, since time is not part of this equation?

      • Betuswonkel

        Well it is a nuclear reaction and not a chemical one (although some say both reaction could be involved). It is clear however there is energy being derived from the atomic level rather than from the energy stored in the chemical bounds between molecules.

        The potential energy of an atom is described by the E is mc2 formula. So one gram of mass contains 8,988 × 10^13 joule of potential energy (around 25000 MWh or apx. the Hiroshima bomb). Obviously this energy is not released all at the same time in a LERN reaction, this would be highly unpractical.

        Rossi tried to explain that the nickel consumption i.e. the loss of nickel due its conversion to energy is rather small. Theoretically making 1000 MWh would consume around 0.04 gram of nickel. However, we dont know how the reaction works so this cannot be verified.

        Time is a factor since the energy is not released all at once, otherwise there would be a huge nuclear explosion. The energy is extracted from atoms who are stimulated to release a small amount of their potential energy over time due to an effect which has not been explained theoretically as of yet. Hope this helps to clarify things

        • LCD

          yeah I’d agree Betu, pretty good synopsis.

          I’d just add that the energy density, J/cm^3, that typical purported LENR reactions produce is indicative of either the most energetic chemical reaction known to man or some type of nuclear based reaction.

          Point is: It seems easier to believe it’s a nuclear reaction, but then it would also be easier to believe LENR doesn’t exist.

          LENR+ reactions (Rossi, DGT, Piantelli), well if they are not nuclear (and not a phenomenal fraud/fake/mistake) then throw away the physics books. By the way you already threw them out by accepting LENR exists in the first place (not really just augment them, but trying to make a point)

  • Sanjeev

    Selling of heat is the only new thing for me here. This means that the partner is a utility co and not a manufacturer.

    Many questions remain unanswered though, like why did they need a plant now, when they have all the tech and facilities to manufacture one. Shouldn’t the partner get busy with production instead of selling heat ?

  • Kim

    I have always wondered if any work has been
    done with nickel in the plasma state and then
    exciting with hydrogen ect…

    Respect
    Kim

    • LCD

      Which method would you use to strip the electrons off the Nickel?

      • Ted-X

        Nickel can go into vapor phase easily as nickel carbonyl. Addition of acetone by Celani (acetone decomposes releasing carbon monoxide) enhanced apparently the LENR effectiveness. Kim, you might be on the right track. Nickel carbonyl is volatile under LENR conditions, in this compound, due to hybridization, electrons apparently penetrate and pass through the nucleus of Ni. Half-carbonyls of nickel could form at the surfaces, cracks etc.

  • Dr. Mike

    Frank,
    Many thanks to you and Sterling for a good interview. I was able to listen in on the live interview.
    I believe Andrea did a credible job in his responses to your questions, avoiding answering only those questions that tied too closely to secrets that he really does need to protect. However, as has been noted by others, his responses in this interview and recent responses on his blog are not real consistent with past responses. The most surprising of these is that the hot cat is only fully stable at 350C verses the 500-600C (with possible operation above 1000C) that we were initially told. Should we assume that stability problems later arose at the higher temperatures? Wasn’t Rossi’s own report (actually cryptic data that he called a report) on his hot-cat based on the hot-cat operating at >1000C?
    I also don’t like that we just learned that the current unit being delivered is not really going to a real customer as I certainly don’t believe a business partner is a real customer. Andrea had said that select followers would be permitted to examine this unit after installation. How will he let anyone see this unit when he is keeping the name of his business partner secret?
    Andrea also stated that he had been in contact with the independent test group in case they had any questions during their tests. How come he is not still in touch with these people to ask what the status of the publication is? Based on the history of the third party test, I assume that the experimenters submitted their report for review back in December, and were told by reviewers that they needed more data (another 120 hour run) before their report could be published. (They may have also been told to fix other things in the report.) Assuming the new additional data was good (Andrea mentioned the smiling professors), the review of the report should only consist of seeing that the additional data was taken and other changes requested in the original review were made. The start date for the “six month” process that Andrea is now talking about was actually last December.
    One other comment that I have is that to me Rossi’s entire e-cat project appears to be severely understaffed. Andrea talked of the teams working on various aspects of the development, but the teams typically consisted of only 2 people. Even if each person on the current teams is really good and working long hours, it is just going to take too many man-hours to get the technology to the point where it is production ready.

    • Paolo

      From first submission to publication, a time of 1-1,5 years is quite common on serious science peer reviewed journals. I say it for direct experience

      • LCD

        Dr. Mike is right, for a verification experiment it’s already too long. Now if they are trying to tie a theory to it and do analysis that could take longer, but WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

        Point is that by now, by the first submission date, rumors would have leaked throughout the scientific community. That has not occurred as far as I know. Who are the peer reviewers that they are so quiet? Are the 11 scientists the most disciplined discreet scientists the world has seen?

        Things like this and others that Dr. Mike pointed out put up a huge red flag. To ignore it would be stupid.

        Remember the 11 independent scientists are working under a different code of ethics and rules than what Rossi is working under in the business world.

        Things don’t add up with Rossi.

        • Dr. Mike

          Paolo is correct that a serious scientific paper can take much longer than six months. However, this will not be a “serious” scientific paper (very important though) because I do not expect to see any theory in the published report other than those theories which have already been published. Any publication of Rossi’s theory could have a severe impact on his intellectual property rights.
          However, I do expect to see the results of at least two separate runs. If I were reviewing the paper, I would also request the results of two separate units. Of course, I would also request a detailed description of the construction of the unit, which just isn’t going to happen. (Don’t expect the secret catalyst to be announced in this paper.)
          Everyone should remember that the data Rossi reported on hot cat was actually quite good (after all of the typos and other clarifications were given). What we are all going to be disappointed in is that it is unlikely the independent report will not have the hot cat running at the same temperature as Rossi’s initial data.

          • Alp

            Is this the same Dr. Mike who investigated Steorn?

            • Dr. Mike

              No, I am an electrical engineer with a primary background in solid state physics.

  • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

    It’s true, all this is not too clear.

  • John Littlemist

    Thank you Frank for relaying my question to Rossi! That made my day! 🙂

  • Jimr

    The only statement I was unhappy with is he failed to state his companion company was a major well known company. I am afraid it may be a company that most of us have never heard of. I wish he would have sold the rights to several companies for Xmillion each and then had them do additional developement and pay him a royalty for each watt/ kw sold. The development would go much faster and he would collect his money before old age. ( i’m not certain any company would agree to that, they may want it all for themselves)
    .

    • Kim

      I listened very carefully when Uncle Rossi
      talked about who was accepted as a customer.

      They want secrecy while they gather as much
      revenue as possible.

      Eventually as the secrets hit main street the
      ability to make money will fall quickly.

      Its a bell shaped curve and very narrow at
      the top.

      This is what is going on at the moment they
      want to make large amounts of money quickly
      before the secrets get out.

      I think we are looking at 1 year before
      main stream recognition and 2 years before
      any type of regular manufacturing.

      Respect
      Kim

      • Peter_Roe

        Kim

        I agree with your estimated timescales – assuming, (a) what we are being told is substantially true and (b) none of the other known contenders are ready to build MW+ units yet and nobody else is independently developing high-output CF in secrecy.

        I would guess that there may be little in the way of publicity (probably quite the opposite) in any startup phase, but if another player enters the game there might finally be some visible and verifiable progress.

      • Peter_Roe

        In other words, for as long as Rossi’s is the only game in town, I will be very surprised if we see any significant and verifiable developments for at least a year or two – but that could change quite quickly if DGT, Brillouin, Piantelli etc. or some unknown developer decide that they are ready to roll.

        In the meantime it could get a bit quiet around here…

        • LCD

          Then why bother with the third party report at all.

          • Peter_Roe

            If tests were commissioned by the partner, they could simply have been for internal purposes, i.e., with no actual intention of publishing, and so no peer review process. That’s assuming of course that the tests have actually been conducted as claimed – the fact is that we have no independent verification that this is the case, so this whole issue remains in limbo for the time being.

          • clovis

            Hi,kim
            we don’t need no dam 3 party report, only the skeptics need proof, all he needs is for everything to go just as planned, and the ship is well under way,no pun intended, Dr. Rossi needs for everything to stay quite, until as i see it,
            they can produce a deliverable product, because if he came out right now people would say , ok where can i buy one, if no product was available then they would say , yep heard that before, so, probably no proof, of this until the product is ready to roll, and no one else is even close to them,as for being ready to produce a device ready for market,
            I learned a lot from the interview, anytime Dr. Rossi speaks the world listens, at least i do, and yes i could be wrong ,i thought i was wrong once, but i was only mistaken, -lol

  • Bob Jenkins

    “He cleared up the fact that his team has made two 1 MW E-Cat plants so far — one went to the military customer, and the other was just shipped the the United States where it will be put to use by his as-yet unidentified partner (first non-military customer) who Rossi says will use it to sell heat to customers.”

    This doesn’t do much to clear up the fact that he was already saying in 2011 that he had sold more than two 1 MW E-Cats (made in his factory in Florida).

    So was he lying in 2011? Or is he lying now? Or both?

    • Andre Blum

      good point, actually.

      • daniel maris

        Didn’t he say at one stage that he’d sold 11 or was it 13 or was it 13 to one customer…?

        • KD

          No. He said that the military customer is satisfied and will order 12 more.
          Because there are new development with the Hot E-Cats the customer might delay the order.

      • daniel maris

        Whenever I listen to Rossi, as opposed to reading his missives, I find him quite persuasive. But really as time stretches out we simply have to compare his words with his deeds. He only has to show us one working unit with a reputable happy customer…as the years go by if he can’t furnish that minimum requirement, well…sadly…we have to part company with him.

        • Andy Kumar

          Words don’t mean a thing to Rossi.

        • clovis

          Why, for goodness sake would he do that, it goes against everything he has worked so hard for,

    • lenrdawn

      Yes. And if you go to rossilivecat, click on the “entire blog on a single page” link and search for the string “deliver”, you’ll find a real mess. Not only inconsistent between 2011 and today but many claims in between as well. I used to think it would be a good idea to construct a “Rossi timeline” to better keep track of what happened and has been claimed at which time – but it’d probably take forever just to get an overview of what he said, when and what he might have meant and why it changes all the time.

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        But if he gets fully validated, someone someday will recruit an army of social science and history PhD students to comb through JONP. Many intense workshops will be held and peer-reviewed proceedings published in Journal of Rossological Research

        • kasom

          Journal of Rossological Research
          i love it!

        • clovis

          +1

      • clovis

        If you don’t know what your talking about you should shut your pie hole and listen for awhile, he is not going to give up his ip for anything , it is protected at all times and anything can and will be said in order to keep it safe. , and he goes not need to prove anything at all, it would be stupid to do so, the proof is in the puddin, and he will let the e-cat speak for itself, end of story.

    • Tom

      I believe he sold 13+ units. Two of which are being delivered now. The fact it takes a while to develop new products and technologies doesn’t make him a liar.

      • Chase Reavy

        He said consistently during 2011 that the plants were being manufactured in a factory in Florida. If such a factory existed, why would he need 20 days to ship his blue box from Italy now?

        • Alex

          The plants in Florida were supposed to be the Home Units not the 1MW units. He said he sold 13 to the Military, but delivered one. The second one was in development in an undisclosed location at the time. We find out now, that was in Italy. We assumed that was supposed to be for the Military, but maybe after testing the military customer thought the technology to be inferior, and wanted further market development before the other 12. Who knows. Each situation, although they appear to be contradictory are not in fact if you place the story in context at the time the statements were spoken. Rossi has not issued a statement that a second 1 MW Unit was delivered. Sold and Delivered are 2 really different things. Most high risk ventures have a pay some now, and pay the rest on delivery sort of agreement. I work in such a field with Medical Equipment.

          • Cat Jonessen

            No, wrong again.

            Quotes from Rossi:

            “In the USA we are manufacturing other 2 plants of 1 MW of power”

            “I reside in the USA and The 1 MW plant for Greece is manufactured in the USA”

            “In October we will start up the 1 MW plant in the USA”

            “we have to manufacture the 1 MW plants, all in the USA”

            These are the statements that led to the infamous investigation in Florida where Rossi told the inspector that all production was done overseas. These quotes are easily found all over the internet.

            He was obviously not telling the truth in 2011. There was no production in the US. I really want to take the man for his word, and believe that an energy revolution is underway, but every shred of common sense screams that he is not honest.

            • Marc

              Does he get your amygdala twitching he does mine and im a pseudoskeptic as stated by the all Knowing on here lol

            • Betuswonkel

              I agree, Rossi’s statements/predictions are not in line with the follow ups. This also leads me to question his honesty.

              However, I studied innovation patterns and it is not uncommon for new entrepreneurs to be overly optimistic about product development. Predictions e.g. timing, product specifications often need to be water down in light of unforeseen problems. Some margin of error can be allowed to Rossi considering the novelty of this technology.

              The 3th party report is one thing were no margin of error is allowed. He clearly stated that, it is done by 13 professors and will be published in a peer reviewed journal. The timing of the report is difficult to predict without a clear deadline. I can imagine they will go through 1000 versions before publishing to get everything perfect since it potentially is one of the most important papers of the century. Rossi will no longer be credible to me if by the end of this year nothing is published. We will have to wait and see.

              • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

                seems rational. Rossi is overly optimistic as any innovator of that kind.

                It is typical for a startup to claim that the product will be ready in 6 month, and take 5 years to reach the market. Normally event the initial ambition are forgotten and the product from a paradigm change, just became a niche market.

                about scientific report, if scientific I expect nothing. Science will reject any claim of anomaly until few years after industrialization, or total perfect theoretical explanation.
                (that is the result of Thomas Kuhn work on scientific revolutions).

                If the test report is an engineer work, and not a scientific work… there will be no problem, like there was no problem to convince National Instruments.

                It have been proven with private pilots, that engineers are the least sensible to track and lock syndrome that prevent people to accept dissenting facts. (nb: worst are law workers, judges and attorneys).

                this have allowed Defkalion to accept the facts, they are more engineers in their mind than bishop of science.

                • Ash

                  There is big difference between saying you are working on something on an unknown timescale (e.g. claiming the product will be ready in six months when it will take longer in reality) *and* the Rossi example of saying ‘we are building the product in the USA’ when there is actually no product under development in the USA.

  • daniel maris

    Thanks Frank!