New Live Test at MFMP

There is live data now being produced from the latest active cell being tested by the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project team. The cell is being operated at lower power levels than previously, as the chart below shows. Currently the input power is 3 W, and there is a consistent output reading of around 3.6 W. This would indicate an energy gain of around 20 per cent.

Hugnet data Air Jacket Test

I spoke with Bob Greenyer yesterday and he emphasized that they team is now working hard to disprove this data. They are certainly not celebrating, but I thought it was interesting work, and worth posting here.

To check out the data yourselves, go to http://data.hugnetlab.com/ and choose the CTC: Air Jacket Test data (at the bottom of the page)

The most recent blog post about this latest test setup can be found here. The post states that “this refers to the Concentric Tube Calorimeter, and the first version that is air jacketed, instead of the coming versions that are water jacketed.” They also state that in the future they will be testing systems using acetone, which Celani says enhances the reaction.

On the Quantum Heat blog this not has been added:

UPDATE 1: We found an instrumentation configuration bug that accounted for that excess heat signal. We’ll keep trying, though.

  • Avenger

    This post should be updated to reflect the fact that the excess heat was caused by an error:

    “UPDATE 1: We found an instrumentation configuration bug that accounted for that excess heat signal. We’ll keep trying, though.”

    • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

      Thanks! I will do just that.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      Hi,

      There have been many results recently, but there are also different test in progress…

      what does mean that message of configuration bug ?
      does it negate all positive result ?

      what is the current situation of tests?

  • Roger Bird

    I too very much enjoy the company of people here, and I have even gained health benefits hanging out with you’all. But I find that I don’t really read posts that speculate too deeply about what Rossi might be doing right now and that my interests in Rossi seem to track Rossi’s ability to keep his word. Thus my “interests” seem to have better sense than I do. But MFMP has my interest and I await the next announcement with keen anticipation.

    We are following Rossi too closely, and he isn’t all that great with keeping word anyway. I don’t think that this makes him a crook. If I read this post letter by letter and anguished over the meaning of every letter, then I would never get the message. And of course when I get to the ‘h’s and the ‘qu’ and the double letters, then I would really be confused. Let us step back and enjoy some news about LENR and MFMP and stop living and dying over every single little pronouncement by Rossi. We know that LENR is real. We know that Rossi probably has something, even if his words are completely unreliable. Let us be patient and enjoy LENR and MFMP and other subjects.

    • daniel maris

      Likewise, Roger. I am hoping MFMP will be able togo forward and demonstrate in incontrovertible fashion an energy gain of more than 100%. Of course one thing that will need to be checked is how much energy goes directly into creating the Celani wires i.e.could they be storing energy in some way…

      • Roger Bird

        A 100% gain in energy would be a COP = 2. (:->)

  • Dickyaesta

    Lets not be carried away too much with this lack of consistent behaviour. It is very typical for a paranoid inventor, there seem to be enemies all over the place and people who try to grab his invention in every corner. Right or wrong, I would be paranoid too with something like that in my hands.

    The Question is, has he something or not. It seems he has as all technical data indicating he is on the right track, the revelation of acetone, Prof. Focardi at his side, a mouse cat that all technical people here on this blog say is a masterstroke, the hotcat the ecat etc. etc. defkalion robbing his ideas (you don’t rob somehing which doesn’t exist), if he goes the right way I don’t know, but it is his way(remember Sinatra: “I do it my way….”), sing this song to yourself when you get very frustrated with Andrea Rossi and hope somebody will come up with the final product that realy makes the difference.

    We still have MFMP, thanks to these hardworking guys, we have more insight in the process than ever, and from here, if not from Rossi or all the others, will come the fruit we desperate grave. Have faith in the process not only in what he says but in what he and all the others are doing, even all of us reading and contributing on this blog to this new fire to be and above all finally we have a way to move forward contributing all and that is the real science, the real way to be.

    • Dickyaesta

      and also very much the work of Frank, thanks D

      • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

        My pleasure, really.

  • georgehants

    Cold Fusion Now
    Gerald Celente has once again brought new energy to the attention of investors and policy-makers by including a story on Defkalion Green Technologies in his Trends Journal, according to a post by Peter Gluck
    http://coldfusionnow.org/trends-journal-taps-new-energy-again/

  • pg

    I guess I will start a new countdown in September. Peter and co. will be glad…

    • Peter Roe

      Yes, I’ll look forward to that.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Don’t understand all the unrest and negative feelings toward Rossi on this site. Why not the same negative feelings toward other LENR players, Defkalion, Dr. George Miley, Brillouin Energy and many others? Why punish Rossi for having an open forum and trying to communicate with us? Many of his miss statements are simply because invention involves many changing conditions that no one can anticipate.

    • Pedro

      I’m a “follower” of Rossi since the demo in January 2011, and like so many on this site I’ve been finding excuses for every delay and every disappointment that happened with Rossi’s promises and announcements.
      What p*sses me off is that I start to realise that we are looking for excuses, but I never saw a single excuse from Rossi.
      Whenever he changes his story, he always does in a matter of fact way, as if he never said anything else before. He never excuses or explains his change of position.
      For example yesterday… after initially stating that the 3rd party report would be published in April, he now says it may take up to 6 months. Can’t argue with the 6 months, but would have expected at least a vague sorry or excuse about the original wrong information that he gave. Sorry seems not to be part of Rossi’s vocabulary.
      I think he is very arrogant when it comes to changing his mind.

      • Redford

        Why would he ? He *really* doesn’t owe us excuses. Especially considering 95% of Rossi says are presented as his own expectations and not promises or commitments. When they don’t happen, he updates and explain. As pointed by OP that’s already pretty nice from him (if he’s real)…

    • Roger Bird

      Bernie, you put things in perspective very well. And perspective is everything with regard to knowledge. All this consternation with Rossi also illustrates why a stock price will plunge if the estimates are way wrong on its price, like if the company says that they are going to have a rip-snortin’ year perhaps a $1.25 dividend and it is only a $.67 dividend, then the stock will take a hit, because of unfulfilled expectations. Brilluion doesn’t hardly say squat, and no one is bitching because no one’s expections were crushed.

  • Roger Bird

    You’ll might be interested in this:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/01/energy-companies-line-up-to-drill-after-government-survey-says-there-more-oil/

    If Rossi turns out to be a flop, then we will have something to keep us going until Brillouin et. al. get there act together.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Perspective….the most optimistic per day production from the Bakken oil region fields is one million barrels per day (Now 600,000 per day). The US uses 20 million barrels of oil per day.

      • Roger Bird

        You rascal, you did it again. Perspective. Well, that would be 3% of our usage. So if the Bakkan output were increased three fold, it would become 9%. But, this assumes that the output from Bakkan etc. would only increase according to the new estimate. It might be a wake-up call that will make this these fields even more attractive to producers and may make the public and the producers realize that proven “reserves” is not a constant term.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          Roger…..yes perspective can be a “B”. Some proponents of “big oil” use the Bakkan field, trying to prove their illogical point. I agree with your analysis about Rossi and expectations.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    I believe this is the first time that Rossi has claimed more than 6 COP. Oops, I see that Pekka just posted this.

    Steven N. Karels
    May 1st, 2013 at 12:34 PM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,

    Can you share with us what was the average COP observed during the acceptance testing?

    Was the 24 hours of testing continuous or was it divided over several days?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Andrea Rossi
    May 1st, 2013 at 6:07 PM
    Dear Steven N. Karels:
    1- more than 6
    2- continuous
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • jfab

      “I believe this is the first time that Rossi has claimed more than 6 COP”

      No. In the beginning, it was around 200 COP.
      Then 100.
      Then 20.
      Then 15.
      Then 6.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        If my memory serves correct, those higher COP figures were from Rossi’s short term experiments. He always used “6” for stable continuous COP.

  • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

    Steven N. Karels, May 1st, 2013 at 12:34 PM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    Can you share with us what was the average COP observed during the acceptance testing?
    AR: more than 6

    As I recall, this is the first time that he estimates over six COP for a 1 MW plant. Although the Penon report last autumn also had COP over six, it was for a single research prototype reactor.
    I also think that he speaks about the low temperature plant in this sentence. So also the low-temp “product family” has undergone some improvements, not only the HotCat branch.

  • Shane D.

    One should be able to believe Rossi has something while being critical of his bizarre behavior. No amount of poor English skills can account for the many things he has led us to believe regarding just this one shipment and independent test. Nor do I cater to the notion that he is purposely deceptive for competitive reasons.

    He has drug just this “independent test” out now for 10 months and apparently just bought himself another 6 months. At some point even the most supportive Rossi defenders (I have done my share of that) need to admit that Rossis’ methods are needlessly deceitful. Why?

    This thread is about MFMPs exciting new development. Fitting that Rossi plays confusing yet again at a time many wonder why they should support the “new fire” team at MFMP.

    I don’t know about you but I don’t trust Rossi to be a good steward of this new energy.

    • Glenn

      One thing that’s for certain: Rossi seriously needs to work on his communication with the public. Maybe he should have hired someone to help him with his PR. Blunders such as his poor communication about this shipment can scare away potential investors.

    • John Littlemist

      What is this “still 6 months till independent test” talk here?
      Please clarify, where is this tale coming from?

      • Bob

        From the Rossi blog ;-“The tests have been completed on the 24th of March, but I think the publication will arrive before 6 months will be expired from that date.”
        It’s no more authorative than the original statement that the results would be published “in the half of April”, so don’t put too much faith in it.
        I think all the talk on the deliveries is supposd to distract us all from the non delivery of the independent test report.

        I notice even the release of the pictures of that are being dragged out into the indefinite future.:- “we will publish the photos our Customer will allow us to publish, after the plant will have been arrived at destination.” The original talk was of pictures of the unit being loaded at the Ferrara factory, which had a definite date, April 30th. Now, like all things Rossi, they have silently slipped into something with an indefinite date.
        We all know how secret the new partner is so don’t expect too much, if anything at all. And in any case, since it will be three weeks in transit and probably another month in customs etc etc, don’t hold your breath or you wont live to see it.

        • Peter Roe

          To be fair to Rossi, 6 months would be a much more realistic estimate for publication than was originally suggested, IF the peer review process is incomplete. However, taken along with the fiasco of the non-appearance of any of the promised pictures, I would have to agree that it does all seem to follow a pattern that can no longer be ignored. If this sounds like childish foot stomping, then so be it.

          Speaking personally, I no longer have any certainty that anything Rossi has said in the last year or so (even the ‘partner’ story) has any basis in fact, although I am at a total loss to explain why anyone would invent such a story, or how Rossi might be funding himself otherwise. Because of this I have to believe that there is some truth behind all the obfuscation, but I simply have no idea where fact ends and fiction begins.

          As I enjoy the ‘virtual company’ of many other contributors here I will continue to follow this blog, although probably with rather less anticipation and excitement than formerly. But as I said a couple of threads back, I will not bother to speculate on any further comments that Rossi might make on JONP, as it has become clear to me that such information is unreliable at best. I hope that some evidence of progress other than AR’s claims on JONP will become available at some point, but as of now I am simply a neutral observer, without any fixed expectations.

          • timycelyn

            Peter, you capture my feelings exactly. I have been paying less and less attention to the swings and screeching u turns in whatever is Rossi’s latest story for a while now. I’m really only going to start paying serious rather than casual attention when / if we see something independent, either this report, or a customer validating the reality of a heating plant.

            I’m neutral between the various possible reasons for his erratic behaviour, that’s a pretty sterile debate, I feel. What matters at the moment is the quality (virtually none) consistency (very little) and corroboration (none) of the communications we get from him.

            Time to get on with life and just keep an eye on things. Speaking of which, there currently are some mutterings in the group about going from Brum to do the Leicester section later this year, which would involve coming thro Napton Jn. I’ll let u know if this firms up..

            • daniel maris

              Yes I second that Peter – very much my feelings as well. And we do know there is SOMETHING there as there was the SGS safety certificate.

              It is all very puzzling. His enemies, like that Gary guy, must be complaining to all the authorities under the sun about him – yet we have only heard about the FRB approach.

              All one can do really is go on “standby” and refocus on MFMP I think, which seems to have an open approach and is getting some interesting results.

              • Peter Roe

                That’s a good way of putting it, Daniel. My red ‘standby’ indicator is accordingly lit, awaiting any developments from MFMP or any other contenders, or 3rd party verification of Rossi’s claims.

            • Peter Roe

              Tim, as you say it seems rather futile to speculate on Rossi’s claims, or his reasons for making them, for exactly the reasons you outline.

              I desperately want to see cold fusion replacing fossil fuels, and Rossi may well have succeeded in making the tech work as claimed, but until that’s externally verified in some way it’s all just so much hot air. I find the let-downs (which are admittedly not entirely of Rossi’s making) emotionally draining, so it seems sensible to take a step or two back. Any room left on your fence? (It may be quite crowded now.)

              My wife is a teacher and we tend to go up to our boat during May and again in August (school holidays). Unfortunately I don’t know exactly when until said wife has planned her holiday time! Let me know your plans when your group has agreed on dates.

          • lenrdawn

            “although I am at a total loss to explain why anyone would invent such a story, or how Rossi might be funding himself otherwise”

            Yes. Those are the main, unanswered questions and they’re probably directly related. If Rossi’s funding comes from high-risk investors then it would make sense to keep them interested and give an impression of progress and imminent financial success. Collecting money seems to be an ongoing process (see Roger Green’s e-mail recently published on PESN). I doubt he is selling these licenses without Mr. Rossi’s approval because in the past, Rossi has always been very quick with warnings on JONP whenever somebody tried to sell anything e-cat related that wasn’t “official”. And Roger Green was a speaker at the Zurich event where he was introduced as the official Australian partner. So that could well be the main source of funding and it would explain why he would invent such a story. I’m not quite as disillusioned as you yet and still think the report has to surface at some point in the not too distant future. I only hope it really was written by university professors and not by a bunch of John Does.

    • Barry

      It’s true Shane, I’m very disappointed with Rossi’s stewardship. If he’s not careful another energy breakthrough will come along and undermine everything he’s worked for. Seems only karmic. There is no reason a company with such an earth-changing magnitude can’t have an articulate English speaking PR person with clear messages. I’m still holding out hope but the humanitarian admiration is waning.

      Thank you MFPM for your transparency. it’s quite refreshing at the moment.

    • Barry

      Sorry- double posted (.,.)

    • Redford

      I blame Rossi on 2 things:
      – stupidly unrealistic expectations for the time window of the article (way too fast)
      – the container sold twice thing

      Apart from those two (important) issues, I see nothing wrong in this last year. Also, he did provide a first report with 2 independant names on it when it was entirely unexpected. I am always amazed how people forget that episode. That’s the most solid proof I see so far.

      • Peter Roe

        I for one am convinced that the LT e-cat is a practical reality, and so I’m inclined to accept that this particular technology may be slowly creeping forward, even if I no longer feel able to accept without corroboration many of Rossi’s claims about sales, developments and automated production.

        However these devices, no matter how useful to the military and certain industries, aren’t ‘game changers’ because of the low operating temperature and relatively low COP. For this, electrical power generation is required, as claimed for the ‘hot cat’ development. Although we have pictures and even a report on a prototype, the fact is that everything that subsequently stems from this – the IP deal and the mysterious ‘partner’, the various breakthroughs and developments, the third party tests and publication – all originate from JONP, and there is no way to confirm any of it.

        As the rubber has stretched, this has become less and less tenable, and for me the only logical position is now neutrality. Either Rossi has the goods, and we’ll know that for sure in due course – or he doesn’t, and we’ll eventually know that, too. Meanwhile we watch, hope and wait, but for me, with considerably less expectation than in earlier times.

  • freethinker

    About MFMP:

    I was convinced with the first setup (the european).
    This is obviously a more stringent way to clinch the deal, showing that Celani and others is on the money.

    With that said, I think there is needed some more elaborate designs to really jolt this into action, yielding surplus energy in the hundreds of percents. I guess all in good time.

    Still, my recent doubts about the focus of the MFMP team aside, this is a nice and promising milestone. I salute you.

    When it comes to Rossi:

    I know. Been there. We, who has been on this journey a few years now, know. Have eternal patience. Don’t break down every syllable and analyze. There is something in motion. It is fragile. It carries the promise of untold wealth for all involved, and major change (to the better) for all the rest. As much as Rossi appreciate our interest, he would not divulge anything to anybody not in line with his grand plan, or indeed his masters.

    Time will tell if he’s got it. Meanwhile there are others out there trying.
    We live in interesting times. Ponder that.

    • artefact

      +1

    • Kim

      Kim
      +1

    • NJT

      Me to +1

    • Ecco the Dolphin

      This “concentric tube calorimeter” setup isn’t bad at all (in principle, although it’s still not a mass flow calorimeter – even though it could be slightly modified to work like one – it’s much better than Celani’s original glass tube reactor), if you study it in detail. Problem is that information about it is all over the place, and the MFMP is working on so many different models it’s easy to lose track of which is what.

      The bad news is that the 20% excess heat reported in this blog post was due to a fault in the instrumentation which has now been solved. Live data from data.hugnetlab.com currently indicates that no excess heat is being produced (or if it is, it’s within error margins) at 24W in, 23.85W out and no signs of the latter increasing over time.

  • Kim

    It will certainly be interesting when
    MFMP attempts using acetone as a catalyst.

    If it increases the output it will open up
    an entire new approach.

    I would like to see COP at 2, that would
    be impressive.

    At least we are getting something concrete with
    the Guys at MFMP

    Respect
    Kim

  • JimP

    A prototype for a plasma rotary engine is shown operating(?) NO, this isn’t John Rohner, but it is claimed to be an engine operating with the same principles as the Papp engine. Would love to hear from someone with more expertise in the field.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM

    • Lukedc

      It’s his brother Bob.
      I actually don’t mind the guy.
      Whether or not he actually has anything “Outside the box” going on, I cannot conclusively say.
      This video is much better.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fd-coQ84XU

      • Roger Bird

        So, what is the big deal? Is it converting an explosion directly into electricity? That is an interesting trick. But there must be something else.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          Roger, an explosion is ultra-rapid combustion. The Rohner process supposedly involves no combustion.

          • Roger Bird

            Then what is that sharp report I kept hearing? And electricity is coming from what event? And why should I care? I didn’t see anything amazing because I am ignorant; enlighten me.

            • Peter Roe

              The noise is from the sudden expansion of the working gas when ‘sparked’. The gas then immediately collapses back to its original stae, allowing the cycle to be repeated.

              The electrical firing impulse is supplied externally from a capacitor, but the amount of work done by the piston of the engine supposedly far exceeds the electrical power input.

              Bob Rohner has two sites where you can find out more, at http://pappengine.com/videos.htm and http://rohnermachine.com/.

              His brother John claims a similar technology but has so far failed to demonstrate anything useful.

            • Peter Roe

              Others claim to have replicated the plasma expansion effect but measurements of input power and work done don’t seem to be generally clear. Here is one from late last year that uses hydrogen instead of the ‘noble’ gases that Rohner uses:

              http://pesn.com/2012/10/02/9602199_Russ_Gries_runs_Bob_Rohners_Noble_Gas_Popper_replication_on_Hydrogen/

  • Robert

    So…No pictures and the third party report could be 6 months away. I’m beginning to feel like a real jerk for believing in Rossi for the last 27 months.

    • Jimr

      Now,now, lets. all be very patient. We do not want to hurt Rossi,s delicate feelings or he may pick up his ecat and go home. We all know how reliable his statements have been in the past. So as some imply lets wait for eternity.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Imagine that the internet was available a century ago, and Edison was daily thinking out loud on his blog. His followers would have gone nuts coping with his thousands of failures.

        • Roger Bird

          More than 9,000 failures just with the light bulb alone.

          • Paul Hunt

            At least he might have been honest about his failures rather than just stringing us along about what is next with no supporting data.

            • daniel maris

              At least he might have shown all his co-workers beavering away.

    • Kim

      I think Andrea Rossi would love to be more
      fourth coming with us in all truthfulness.

      Yet he has his masters orders like us all.

      Respect
      Kim

      • Bob

        Were things any different before he had his masters orders?
        No.

    • kasom

      I agree, what he told us about delivery, photos, items to be delivered, place of origin, etc.was full of contradictions the last weeks.
      I can’t find it honest to his followers. He is feeding his enemy….

      • Massimo

        ..also Galileo, Fermi, Da Vinci, Michelangelo,Dante, Rubbia, Fibonacci, Vespucci, Marconi,Colombo, Puccini,Verdi, Volta,Raffaello, Bernini…are Italians

      • Stephen

        AR has been full of contradictions for the past 2 years… ok we all have different characters and surely demonstrating LENRs is not an easy job… having said that, in my opinion he’s either dishonest or in urgent need of “professional help”.

        • GreenWin

          Stephen – seriously? You have nothing original or of value outside ad hominem attacks? Insanity is posting the same old shiet over and again and getting the same result – no one cares.

          Infantile.

    • daniel maris

      I’m not sure I feel like a jerk because I am not sure I “believed” in him. Clearly he had something there, there were reputable professors involved and there were clues from elsewhere that seemed to confirm the power of the nickel hydrogen approach.

      Rossi has disappointed yet again. What can one say? Not a lot. It would be easy for him to provide proof.

      • Roger Bird

        Poor baby! This is what I meant when I said that we batter our inner child by being impatient.

        • daniel maris

          I think we should simply ignore Rossi until he is ready to engage with people. He’s not engaging. Why? Who knows? Does he have anything? Who knows? I am certainly disappointed at the recent turn of events. How difficult is it to upload a digital pic of a container being loaded onto a truck? Not at all.

          He has no credibility. That’s his fault, whether or not he has the technology he claims.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            What’s the big deal about pictures. I’ll bet they look very similar to the old pics.

            • daniel maris

              “Pics” is just shorthand for “credible ongoing narrative” of the type MFMP are giving us.

              The point is that Rossi is not a recluse. He communicates all the time. But in the most boneheaded, stupid way imaginable.

              I mean for one thing – hasn’t he heard of Google Translate! LOL

              He’s lost all credibility. It’s for him to win it back if he can.

              • Iggy Dalrymple

                Daniel, you’ve just devastated Rossi’s ego…..at a very vulnerable point in his life. Have a little compassion.

              • Roger Bird

                Daniel, I think that you are being manipulative, like a child, “You don’t love me, Mommy.” (:->) It won’t work because Rossi is probably just communicating with us for recreational purposes.

              • Omega Z

                daniel

                Maybe he is using Google. Maybe that is the reason for some of the confusion.

                Lets also not forget that many people read more into what he says then what he actually says. Then run with it for days spreading the misinterpretation.

                Confusion within the Confusion. Much of it is our fault. Some is Rossi’s for being Elusive in some answers.

                Sometimes Rossi gets ahead of himself & leads to timeline problems. We should introduce him to Murphy’s Law. Murphy can be very busy at times. I know from experience.

                There’s many times I’d like to catch Murphy in a dark alley. 🙂

                • Jim

                  “sometimes he gets ahead of himself”

                  I think that’s a major part of his perception problem (i.e. how he is perceived). He REALLY wants recognition for his work, and he has to wait…

  • Kim

    Andrea Rossi:

    Will there ever be a customer that will
    actually be known to us?

    That will say “Hey it really works!”

    Respect
    Kim

    • kasom

      your comment is under moderation

  • AstralProjectee

    Frank I think your math is wrong. If it’s 3 watts input, and they are getting 3.6 watts output. Then that is 16.66666666666667 excess heat. Which when rounded off should be 15 percent excess heat. Still a decent amount, but I thought people should know that.

    I don’t even remember how I did the math, but I was pretty sure I did it correctly.

    • AstralProjectee

      OK I just remembered how I did it. I took 3.6 divided by .6 which is 6. Then 100 divided by 6, which is 16.66666666666667. So it should be 16.66666666666667 percent excess heat. Thus it should be rounded to 15 percent. If anyone thinks my math is wrong let me know.

      BTW I was one of the minority in the latest education poll here. Having only finished HS. But hey I was the first to point this out. ; )

      • Roger Bird

        AstralProjectee, your math is wrong. [(3.6/3) – 1] * 100 = 20%. But it is too small to convince some people that it wasn’t a measuring error. Like I said, I am convinced. Other people, especially hardcore scientists, won’t be convinced, yet.

        • AstralProjectee

          I’m getting a second opinion from some in my family. Hold on for that one.

          As far as being convinced it works, well it all depends on how long they have been running this test and how long it will run. In order to really rule out unseen factors, it wold have to run for weeks like that. I don’t know how long this test has been running. But if they can get it running for weeks at this amount then I’d be much more convinced. It’s looking good nevertheless.

          • Chuck

            If I remember my freshman physics correctly, they’re measuring temperature. Power is proportional to the fourth power of the temperature (in degrees K). So a little error can get magnified greatly.

            When you’re dealing with small amounts of power, you really need very very good calorimetry to get the results you’re looking for. Much of the history of the P-F effect is sullied by questionable metrology.

            Measuring things accurately is difficult.

      • JimP

        Gee, I think 5 times .6 = 3. By the old math that’s 20% of 3

      • Omega Z

        Astral

        You & Roger are Both Right. But Roger is Righter- 🙂

        What you figured is 16.66666666666667 percent of the WHOLE. Which normally would be Rounded up. That’s anything at or above 5. Anything below .5 is averaged down. In this case being conservative would be averaged down or it is what it is.

        In this particular Case- Roger’s answer is the one we want, Which is 20% above the BASE Input. (3w)

        Marketing people have fun manipulating these numbers between Base/Whole percent. Deceiving the unsuspecting of the truth.
        🙂 Politicians are marketers. It’s Free, The tax payers will pay for it. (That Be You 🙁 )

        • AstralProjectee

          I think I see what your saying.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        .6 divided by 3.00 = .20 or 20%

        I believe the COP would be 1.2

        • Omega Z

          Iggy

          I THINK YOU MIGHT NOT BE WRONG..

          OH My God. I think I just did a Rossi speak. 🙂
          Now I must decipher.
          Yes. COP>1.2

          • Roger Bird

            No. COP = 1.2. Please try to get it right!

            • Omega Z

              Sorry bout that.
              Got used to Rossi posting COP>6
              as In he guaranteed the COP would be greater then 6. You’d think that would be an easy habit to break.

        • Bob

          As Yoda would say,..”Wrong you are not”
          An excess power of 0.6 watts and a COP of 1.2 is very encouraging for such a small reactive mass. The only problem here is that the overall wattage being measured is small and therefore it’s possible to be distorted quite a bit by experimental percentage error.
          The next step to prove it conclusively is to scale it up and see if the COP remains the same or is diminished. If it remains the same or better I would take that as a good proof of concept.

          • Omega Z

            Bob

            From this and their former tests, I think they have shown a Net Gain.

            But ass of Yet I haven’t seen anything I’d want to sign my name to. That’s the reason they’ve changed their setup is to prove beyond possible error.

            Their still learning. It will take time.

  • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

    Well, that’s great news from Rossi! I think the pictures will be nearly identical to the ones we saw last October (?), except in a new setting. I’d be very surprised if there is a completely different look to the machines (I guess wuthout moving parts they are devices, not machines, right?).But it’s the delivery that matters, I don’t care how it was accomplished. They [probably picked it up in Ferrara inm a truck and brought it to the company that bought it. Imagine what it will be worth 50 years from now as a collectible – like the first Univac! By then they will be tiny devices, the size of footballs.

    • Omega Z

      Joe

      “the size of footballs”

      So our Cell Phones will again be the size of a Brick. 🙁

      Oh Well, It’ll save me 10 hours a week looking for my girlfriends cell phone. She loses it at least once a day.

  • Lu

    Andrea Rossi
    May 1st, 2013 at 12:00 PM

    julian_becker:
    we will publish the photos our Customer will allow us to publish, after the plant will have been arrived at destination.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    20 days?

    • stuey81

      yawn!

    • Bob

      No. Note the wording “the photos our Customer will allow us to publish” which will probably be none.
      Why would the customer have any say on what photos are taken as when the device is still at the factory in Italy, being loaded onto a truck?
      And why is it that the ‘customer’ which is his new partner by the way, is so critical about secrecy and yet allows a consistent running commentary on everything on the Rossi blog? If they are so secretive, why is it that they can even be mentioned?
      It defies all logic.

      • Lu

        I agree it doesn’t make much sense which is why this thing reeks of a scam. On the other hand it is possible there are good reasons for this, however unlikely it might seem. The question is, how long can you wait before you decide it’s a scam?

      • Redford

        My money is that in Rossi’s mind he wants photo AT THE NEW LOCATION, because he’s embarrassed about the “not moved container” of the last “delivery”. He wants to prove this time it has moved. And that’s why he’d need the agreement of the customer. At least that’s how I read his post.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Could the sale have been made in Italy, with the shipping the responsibly of the buyer? I could think of many reasons why this would be an advantage for buyer and Rossi.

    • Chris the 2nd

      Yes, based on his comments that it was inspected before delivery I would suggest that means it was collected by the customer. Hence “delivery” has been completed. The English language is a funny thing, many of us native speakers struggle so imagine how it must be for those who it is a second language.

      • Peter Roe

        The comments do seem to refer to a single unit – but weren’t there supposed to be three; the refurbished 1MW container unit plus prototypes for the ‘gas cat’ and the ‘hot cat’? Perhaps the latter are a separate shipment, but I don’t think anything like that has been mentioned.

        • Omega Z

          Peter

          I’ve received shipments of 50. All 1 shipment. Numbered 1 of 50- 2/50 etc..
          Could also be shipped to a location & all placed in 1 larger shipping container. Yea, we could speculate on this for a while & still get it wrong. To many possibilities.

    • Omega Z

      Bernie

      If we order something off the Net, The seller usually handles all shipping arrangements. Tho some give you options depending on the product & quantity.

      In Business, The Customer usually makes his own arrangements due to their own preference.

      This puts shipping directly in their control & supervision. If there should be problems they talk directly to the shipping handlers.

      Other wise, they would have to converse with Rossi who would get a hold of the shipper who would have to get back to Rossi who would get back with them.

      In this situation, Once Pick up has taken place, Rossi has delivered his product.

      • Bob

        That’s true. When you buy an aeroplane, it’s yours as soon as it’s wheeled out of the hangar. If you run into a ditch 100 metres from the hangar it’s the buyers resposibility.
        I have to concede a similar arrangement could be in place here, except that the sale is to his partner. Who knows?

        • Omega Z

          Bob

          I’ve seen how partners or sister companies in a corporation can treat one another. It’s a Strange World we live in.

          Sometimes they treat a competitor better.

    • Redford

      People are really getting dumb with this delivery story. Rossi like anyone has his own deadline in mind so very naturally, he says the shipping date. Moreover, opposite to a lot of idiotic assumption made here and there, producer nearly never commit on delivery day – including, yes, online shop, that tells you when they ship and when you …should… be delivered. Because a company can only commit on what it controls.

      I never, ever understood the date as a delivery date. How some not only got that but can’t imagine it wasn’t meant at all is passed me.

  • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

    Damage, they are not published online from
    any modern camera or smartphone.

    • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

      Not on the MFMP test, but about the delivery of 3 Ecats yesterday.

      • Peter Roe

        It’s now 5:55pm in Ferrara – perhaps Rossi forgot to drop off his film at the chemist before they closed for the day.

      • jfab

        Give Rossi some time, Photoshop isn’t that easy to master.

        • Roger Bird

          <<>>

    • Jim

      Sounds like someone left the back door open again.

  • Roger Bird

    It is possible to make crude buildings with cow paddies. You stack the cow paddies and when you have them placed and stacked right you spray a little water on the “walls” and then let it dry in the hot sun. You may need to use a sheet of metal as a roof. But, you know what? It is still a pile of dung.

    If the bricks are of poor quality, then a building made of those bricks is going to be problematic. Some bricks might withstand the pressure; some might not. Of course, some designs can partially compensate for the weaknesses of the bricks. That is what good political science is all about. But if you make better and stronger bricks, then the design becomes less important.

    Communism and other such systems think that if you have just the right design that all of the bricks will be magically improved, that there won’t be rampant alcoholism, corruption, oppression, war mongering, etc.

    It’s all about the bricks. No system will completely compensate for bad bricks, bricks that crave instantaneous gratification, uncompassionate bricks, bricks that want someone else to solve all of their problems, dishonest bricks, irresponsible bricks.

    The left has their weaknesses, and the right loves to point those weaknesses out and feel morally superior. And the right has their weaknesses, and the left loves to point those weaknesses out and feel morally superior. But such squabbling is BS and bogus. Moral and emotional and compassion weaknesses are, guess what??? weaknesses, and they make the building unstable and difficult for all of the other bricks.

    • buffalo

      @roger bird..thats why i said to georgehants,spiritual dictatorship is the only way to prevent a looming war 3 senario.

      • Roger Bird

        The only spiritual dictatorship that I could support would be each person taking responsibility and getting serious about their own spiritual growth and character development.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Admin…….come on, do we really want to debate politics here?

      • Roger Bird

        I’m done. I cleared up my own thinking and I have no more gripes with anyone else’s beliefs on this matter.

    • Barry

      Winston Churchill said “Capitalism is the best worst system we have” something like that. I think the next step in our evolution would be community, not communism but community. In community a group with similar values can pool their creative resources and function in a larger capitalistic system, much like retreats many of us go to. The structure of a community is limited only by our imagination. I live this way two weeks out of the year and deeply long for that timeframe to be expanded. When I come home it feels like coming back to a lower plane. It also gives me a glimpse of how it can be.

  • Ecco the Dolphin

    I proposed using even less power (2-2.5W maybe even less) to be sure if this is a threshold-activated, possibly real excess, or of it’s some sort of systematic error due for example to some fault in the temperature controlled (I think it is, if I understand correctly) air jacket.

  • Roger Bird

    3.6 watts vs. 3 watts convinces me, but it won’t convince anyone who has not been paying attention.

    • lenrdawn

      3.6W vs. 3W would convince everybody. The problem is that these values are the result of a temperature calibration and all sorts of things can go very wrong there. So let’s be patient. This isn’t about convincing the rest of science yet. It is still about making sure nobody’s fooling themselves.

      • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

        I d’nt like to hear this ridiculouse 20% gain of heat.

        • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

          It is anything except science.

          • buffalo

            @sophareth camsone..err excuse me mr camsone,are you a scientist? Didnt think so.

            • stuey81

              sci·en·tist

              /ˈsīəntist/

              Noun

              A person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences.

              Synonyms

              scholar – savant – boffin – naturalist

              i study science – therfore im a scientist!

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Despite a 60 year $22.4 Billion dollar effort, the hot fusion scientists have not achieved overunity. MFMP has achieved sustained overunity in less than one year.

      • Ecco the Dolphin

        Hold on! They were still checking if the excess was real.
        It seems it was due to a bug in the instrumentation.

      • Roger Bird

        So, Iggy, are you promoting LENR or are you promoting Rossi?

  • artefact

    From JONP:

    Andrea Rossi
    May 1st, 2013 at 8:04 AM
    Dear Neri B.:
    The delivery, after an acceptance test, has been made today.

    Dear Neri B.:
    The delivery has been made today.
    the photos of the plant will surely be published.
    We will publish them on the Journal Of Nuclear Physics
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Blanco69

      Must have been a speed boat then. Is the Blue Ribband still up for grabs? I suspect the ecat delivery boys may have just picked it up.

      • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

        A virtual delivery, You like to say ?

        • stuey81

          suprise suprise, yet another delay, yet another excuse, and around and around we go, if it wasnt for MFMP i would give up hope. photos will surley be published, ha! do it then rossi, who controls your personal photographs? ive noticed the general vibe among long time posters here is “enough is enough”. rossi how much for a reactor now they are for sale to the private sector? oh thats right, you pick and choose who you sell to and its all a big secret. ppffffffft. dick smith would buy several ecats today if you would sell him one.

          • Roger Bird

            Did I miss something? I see the delay, but I don’t see the excuse.