What’s Happening on April 30th? [Updated (again)]

I’ve seen some speculative comments in various places about what might be happening on April 30th with regards to the E-Cat, and I thought it would be useful to try and nail down as much as is possible from what Andrea Rossi has said about what exactly going on.

Rossi has said that on April 30th, according to a contractual agreement, there is going to be a delivery of a 1 MW low temperature E-Cat plant, (electricity driven) to a customer somewhere in the United States. The plant has apparently been built at Rossi’s US partner’s facilities. There has been no announcement of any public demonstration or display of the plant, although Rossi has said that he will be releasing some photographs of the plant during the delivery process. If this 1 MW plant is similar to the prototype that has been filmed and photographed in Italy, it will be built inside a shipping container, so pictures of it on the outside will be probably quite unremarkable.

As far as the release of the 3rd party report goes, Rossi has consistently said that he has no knowledge of when it will will be posted, and that his commercial activities are unrelated to the report. I haven’t seen or heard anything from any source that gives any indication of when the report will be published. It would be nice though, if someone connected with the testing could give us some kind of idea on when to expect it.

UPDATE

In response to a question about this very topic, Andrea Rossi said this today:

Dear Brian:
We are delivering, this month, to our USA Partner three plants, one industrial plant of 1 MW which is a low temperature heat producing plant, one prototype of Gas fgueled E-Cat and one prototype of Hot Cat plant. The prototypes are to study them and study their industrialization, while their certification is in course. The duty of the 1 MW plant is industrial heat production. The delivery will be made this week.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

This gives a different picture to the scenario I supposed above — he says here that the plants will be delivered TO the USA partner rather than being manufactured by the partner and sent to another customer.

2nd UPDATE

Here are some follow up questions and answers with AR. I was WAY off in my speculation above!

1. Are all the plants to be delivered at the same time to your USA partner? Yes
2. Are they being shipped from Italy to the US? Yes
3. Can we have many photos?! Yes, Several

  • lenrdawn

    Here is a first picture from the delivery. At least one of the e-cats can clearly be seen in row 9, third from the right, second from the top.

    http://freightertraveltips.com/resources/containerschiff-764790.jpg

    Seriously, what do we expect? A shipment is a shipment is a shipment. Nothing to see here. Move on.

    • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

      When we speak delivery, it should be made at home
      and not transport or other.

    • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

      Just, a little word from A Rossi w’d be sufficient.

  • stuey81

    its the 30th here in australia, lets see what today brings, will check back here late tonight after the rest of the world clocks over to the 30th – hope we get lots of photos of the customers purchase, and just to be clear, it was a contractual obligation that this must be delivered by april 30th 2013 right? for me this is it, if rossi fails to deliver on his promises today – my faith in what “rossi says” will hit an all time low, prove me wrong rossi, prove me wrong

    • Bob

      The most you will see today is a picture of a shipping container, probably painted blue, being loaded onto a truck to allegedly be loaded onto a ship for America. In fact, 3 containers maybe.
      I might add that this seems a very loose arrangement for something so secret and earth shattering as the power source of the new age.
      Anyone who has shipped stuff across the world by shipping container would know that it has a less than exemplary security record.
      To do this implies a confidence in the integrity of the whole shipping chain which I think it probably doesn’t deserve.
      Although, maybe they will be asked to sign a non discosure agreement. They seem to have worked remarkably well up to this point.
      Or maybe the intention is that they mysteriously disappear so as to avoid having to front up with a device which works?

      • Roger Bird

        Remember that the drivers and other people who would be handling the e-cats, assuming that all this is going to happen as described, would have absolutely, positively no clue as to it’s value. I doubt if 1 in 1000 people know any thing about Andrea Rossi and his shipping April 30th. Try one in a million, or 7,000 people on Planet Earth.

      • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

        I’ll be happy eventhough a simple picture.

  • Roger Bird

    The crop circle thread was getting too narrow for me, so I am starting over.

    I love crop circles. You know in your heart that there is something abnormal happening there, but all explanations as to a cause are very speculative. The crop circle phenomena forces people to think deeply and accept uncertainty, or else close their minds on their pet explanation and be stupid. Life is uncertain. Get used to it. (:->) If you have an explanation that you are positive of, you are either fooling yourself or else you know something that the rest of us don’t know.

    • lenrdawn

      Same advice to you, Roger. Join a crew and do a couple. Your heart will probably miss the “knowledge” that something abnormal was happening but it’ll be consoled by the knowledge that you played a part in creating an evanescent piece of art.

  • Mark Saker

    I am confused as to who the customer of the low temperature cat is going to. I thought it was going to a private company who certain persons could visit.

    Is the customer Andrea Rossi’s new partner? In which case are they expecting to lose their anonymity soon when people can see it in action

    Or are the three reactors simply being shipped to the US partner, and then the low temperature cat is being sent off to it’s final destination somewhere in the US?

    Specifics, specifics specifics

    • KD

      >>>>>I am confused as to who the customer of the low temperature cat is going to. I thought it was going to a private company who certain persons could visit. <<<<<

      Mark Saker!
      You have to understand, "that anyone who spend money to buy that plsnt" and I can say for my self, that I never would go public with it. I don't want employ dozen of peoples to unswer the telephone calls or service unwanted visitors, who have nothing with the business I do….

  • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

    D-1: The latest
    Andrea Rossi
    April 29th, 2013 at 3:23 AM
    Dear Yona and Andrea:
    By ship about 20 days .
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • KD

      It was just answer to the question. But it don’t prove if it was shipped by ship and not by plane.:))

  • Omega Z

    Everyone wants proof.

    If the E-cat is just Half what Rossi claims-

    Retaining some doubt is Ingenious

    • KD

      But as Rossi said. The prove will be, when product will be on the market.

      • Omega Z

        KD, This is your answer

        “But as Rossi said. The prove will be, when product will be on the market.”

        Rossi doesn’t care to give definitive proof until the very last minute. He wants some doubt to remain.

        The Reason is very simple.

        Once all Doubt is Removed, The Big Boys will be falling all over themselves to provide Funding (100′s of Millions)& Personnel to All Rossi’s would be Competitors developing partnerships with them.

        The Field of just a few will quickly become a Free For All. An All Out Race to the Market. Without a Patent, this is & always was Rossi’s only Choice.

        Contrary to what most here believe, There will be a limited annual market & Rossi wants market share.

        People like to make comparisons to Cell Phones where they may sell a couple 100 million a year. It Wasn’t always like that. In the Early years it was but just a fraction of that. It Takes years to develop & shift the market.

  • Matt

    So he is about to send several “reactors” based on an unknown type of nuclear reaction from Italy to the US? Must have been a hell of burocracy to deal with. Oh, I forgot, he has this SGS savety certificate which probably opens doors at the US customs.

    • Gerrit

      it would indeed be interesting to know what is stated on the shipment / customs documents

    • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

      I’m confused about your article in two respects. First, you say one device is “electricity-driven” and yet they are all started with electric input; does this one stay on electric power, and if so, isn’t it just an electric boiler? Second, I thought you said somewhere that one of the devices to be sold would produce electricity, but that doesn’t seem to be a facet of any of the ones AR describes. And I recall that there has not been any immediate plans for that. Am I mistaken? Thanks for your reply, Frank. Tomorrow is a heluva big day!

      • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

        Hi Joe,

        The first e-cat reactors were “driven” by an electric heating resistor. The heat from drive is apparently necessary to start the reaction in the E-Cat. In order to make them more economical, a new design has been made in which the heat to drive the reactor comes from natural gas (natgas is cheaper than electricity in many parts of the world). Rossi has referred to this design as the ‘gas cat’.

        According to Rossi, the hot cat is now capable of reaching temperatures of 350 C, which will allow it to produce electricity efficiently. I don’t think he has actually started generating electricity from the prototype plant yet, but they are actively working on that according to AR.

        • KD

          I think that the delivery of 1MW plant to USA client on April 30, and the delivery of three plants to his USA partner are two different stories.

          As he mentioned earlier, he is sending these plants to his USA partner for testing. He don’t have safety certifications for it yet.
          It might be also for preparation of production factories for the new design of E-Cats.

    • Roger Bird

      Matt, your sarcasm is a little too light. You need to ratchet it up a tad. Or perhaps I am reading it so early in the morning that I am just barely getting it.

    • lcd

      I’m sure the shipping manifest says “water heaters”

  • Gerrit

    will we ever hear about the plants again once Rossi has shipped them out ?

    http://i.imgur.com/GOBkbqX.jpg

  • Sanjeev

    So am I right in guessing that there is no customer ?
    The “plants” are just shifting location (which means the blue container and some metal tubes)

    If yes, it is a very frustrating news. What happened to the Ecat that was scheduled to be delivered to a civilian customer tomorrow, and was to be opened for inspection for invited people only ?

    • KD

      Earlier last year Rossi stated that the plant for military customer was made in USA. It means that he can build them there.
      If he now is shipping the three new ones from Italy it means that it is just prototype for testing.

  • Lukedc

    Is it me or does it appear that the comments are being intentionally obfuscated. This seems to be increasing as the time to the end of April decreases.
    Also as the tension grows about the third party report being released, the posts supposed to introduce doubt are being seeded as well.

    • Roger Bird

      I am not a conspiracy person, but I am seeing more naysayers. It could be that already discouraged people are being encouraged to come back just because the report is supposed to be happening soon and April 30th is tomorrow.

      • KD

        There is big difference between watching somebody working and criticizing every move of his hands and doing it by themselves.

    • lenrdawn

      What I find more irritating than supposedly obfuscating comments is how eagerly certain people gloss over the continued absence of the “no longer important” report. Of course a report is unimportant if e-cats are really installed somewhere and work – but that’s been the situation ever since Mr. Rossi said he sold the first plant back in October 2011 and however many he said he delivered since (only nobody ever confirmed even one of them – and, since his ultra-secret partner is the customer, nobody will confirm this one either).

      • KD

        The first what Rossi said in 2011 sold to military customer in USA, was really never delivered. It was used for additional testing and redesigning. The one supposedly delivered was build in USA after making, designing changes requested by customer.

  • http://www.buildecat.com LCD

    I’ve lost track of what plants were delivered when and to whom but if so many plants have been delivered to private commercial customers then at some point somebody YOU KNOW has to have seen the damn thing working.

    I would hope one person at least at this big USA partner would have seen something and leaked it to confirm all this and at least say so without revealing any “secrets.”

    I also agree with Peter Gluck. If the third party validators of the ecat are out there please provide at least an abstract of the paper. It’s not irresponsible to al least do that. THAT has been done plenty of times.

    • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

      I think the third party validator report is no longer
      Important neither necessary.

      • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

        We must to go further.

        • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

          For ex to support strongly the project of Ecat practical
          utilities either to warm or to cold at Stockholm since
          these next months.

        • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

          Or yet at Sun Valley, Ca whre ideas, efficient entrepreneurs and start Up enterprises
          foisonne.

        • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

          Or yet to contact someone at UNDP (United Nations Development Projects)
          or the World Bank (WB), Asia Developmen Bank (ADB) and so on ……

      • KD

        Of course, that for Rossis US-Partner the third party results have no value if they know the product is real and they need a time to set up mass production.

    • Roger Bird

      Let us be serious. The Soviets, when they broke the atomic bomb secret, were way more serious than anyone would be for an industrial secret, even for LENR. When I say serious, I mean breaking arms, seducing, murdering family members, poisoning, bribery, blackmail, threatening, coded letters, etc. With industrial secrets, even LENR, the most that could be expected would be payoffs, salaried spies, seducing maybe, perhaps even blackmail, all fairly light fare. And the problem with stealing LENR secrets would be that right now there would be a very small market for those secrets. Can’t you see Mike McKubre meeting some shady type in a dark alley and saying, “So, what’s the catalyst?”

  • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

    D-1: Before the factual proofs, nothing of special for me.

    • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

      Eventhough there are secretly 40% of hopes.

  • hempenearth

    I thought it would be fair to assume that many parts of both the 1MW warm cat and the prototype hot and gas cats are being built in different places – some in Europe and some in USA due to the cost of shipping. I believe Rossi is sometimes talking about manufacture of the confidential parts and sometimes about the bulk or large, non confidential parts (which are probably more expensive to ship) depending on the context of the question.
    Also if I was a multinational partner of Rossi I would be heating/powering my own offices/factories to show off to potential customers

    • Luca Salvarani

      I agree!

    • KD

      But first, he nides proper certifications and IP secured.
      Also. Because, it is completely new product it is necessary to test it before starting mass production.
      Look what financial problems have car manufacturers, when they have to recall hundreds of thousands or even millions cars for repairs some kind of defects.

  • http://marivic.com.do Omar Gomez

    Now his customer is his “new partner”.

    All I see here is a consistent lie.

    Good luck following rossi imagination.

    • KD

      No. It is delivery of prototypes to his partner to prepare production when they obtain proper safety certifications.

  • Bruno

    Nothing will happen on the 30th. There will be claims of units delivered, but no proof. Just more “Rossi said”. The long awaited test report will never be published, or if it is, it will be inconclusive (gaps in the data, questionable methodology)

    • Roger Bird

      We’ll see.

    • Barry

      This sounds like “Bruno said”.

      • Roger Bird

        Actually, Barry, you are right. People just can’t stand uncertainty. Get over it, folks.

        • NJT

          Obviously there are a few folks here who know little to nothing about what it takes to bring an invention to fruition especially one that will pale all others if it succeeds…

          • Roger Bird

            This is why we rely upon your expert advice.

            When I was in software development, shipping date was always 3 times longer away time-wise than the announced date. And don’t any of you say that it was because I was working on it.

            • NJT

              I wrote and ALWAYS shipped my software on time… LOL!

          • Bob

            That’s true, but it doesn’t take much to prove that one works.
            That could have been done conclusively 2 years ago but against all advice, it was not.

            • NJT

              Perhaps, had you been the inventor!

          • Bruno

            Except we’re not talking about bringing a product to market. We’re just talking about showing the world (and potential customers) that the concept really works. Unless Rossi is just keeping it close to his vest in order to not incentivize potential competitors, he’s had over 2 years to prove that the ecat works. It just rubs me wrong when someone talks a good talk but doesn’t deliver.

            • Roger Bird

              Bruno, you are not alone. We can all wallow in our collective impatience and sing kum ba ya.

      • V.p.S.

        We will probably see a lot of such comments in the next weeks, all the time until the report is published. It has been said quite offen on this forum – patience is a virtue. And some people are just starting to loose this virtue. Or they just wanna have some fun while trolling. Either way, it’s their problem, and it’s not worthy to take even a tiny note of it.

        • NJT

          Well said V.p.S

        • Bob

          The diminishing patience might have something to do with the fact that this is not the first “indipendent third party report” that we have waited in vain for. It is probably about the fourth or fifth over the last two years.
          Only last November we were all eagerly waiting for the third party report which was to be delivered at the end of November, and right up until the 30th, everything was going just fine with a running commentary from Rossi on just how well things were proceeding. Then in the space of just half a day, the commentary changed direction and then declared there was a problem, — unspecified. No explanation, no nothing, only a problem had arisen. We never heard anything about that report or what the problem was ever since. After all the buid-up, wouldn’t you think we could have been given a provisional report with the “problem’ specified? Apparently not.
          Then a few days or weeks later it was declared a new series of tests were to be done and I got the impression that it was to be arranged by the ‘new partner’.
          I have no doubt that if the results are less than complimentary then that report will also be posted in the company rubbish bin. Similar to the 30th November 2012 report, I don’t think that fact will be passed on, so we will never know for sure.
          This might help explain our increasing lack of patience.
          And yes, I fully understand that he does not have to release any reports. But in that case, he should stop saying that he will.

          • Roger Bird

            So is this excitement and increased postings like a line of people in the old Soviet Union? People would get in line if there was a smaller line just because people were standing in line and the new people didn’t want to miss out on some consumer good finally coming to market, EVEN though the new people had no idea what the consumer good was.

            Am I to blame not just Rossi but also the habitual true believers who believe in UFOs, free energy, and AGW for getting in line ahead of me and getting all excited over yet another bit of Rossi BS?

  • Torbjörn

    Admin Wrote “This gives a different picture to the scenario I supposed above — he says here that the plants will be delivered TO the USA partner rather than being manufactured by the partner and sent to another customer.”

    I am guessing that he is talking about the plant that was manufactured in Bologna (Oktober 28 2011 test), and the other two prototype plants are probably made in Ferrara.

    And I am guessing that one 1 MW warm plant manufactured by Rossis partner will be delivered to a costumer on April 30.

    • GreenWin

      I would hope it includes wide lapels and a bowler hat.

    • Lu

      “And I am guessing that one 1 MW warm plant manufactured by Rossis partner will be delivered to a costumer on April 30.”

      Unless the US Partner is also the customer. They are supposed to be involved in energy production.

      • Peter Roe

        A subsidiary perhaps – who knows. Where units are built and by whom, what is the relationship between Leonardo and the partner/customer, who owns the IP, who the latest 3 units are to be delivered to, all seem to be in the air again following the recent spate of blog posts.

        I am particularly unsettled by the recent shift from ‘made in the US by the partner’ to ‘made in Italy(?) and shipped to the US’, especially in the case of the ‘hot cat prototype’, the IP for which was supposedly sold to the US partner. All very strange.

        Perhaps we’ll know a bit more after tomorrow, but somehow I rather doubt it. Maybe in another year or so…

      • Peter Roe

        Answers 2 and 3 below seem to clearly confirm that the partner is (in Feb) building hot cats in the US – so why is one now supposedly being shipperd from Ferrara?

        Frank Acland
        February 1st, 2013 at 5:50 PM

        Dear Andrea,

        I hope you don’t mind more questions regarding your current manufacturing situation — we are all very curious!

        1. Are you currently manufacturing the hot-cat reactors in the USA factories?
        2. Are you currently building hot cat plants in the USA factories?
        3. Do the USA manufacturing facilities belong to your USA partner?
        4. Have any of the prototype plants built at your Italian R&D facility been delivered to non-military customers yet?
        5. Will the first hot cat plant be installed at a facility belonging to your USA partner — or an external customer?

        Andrea Rossi
        February 2nd, 2013 at 3:58 AM

        Dear Frank Acland:
        1- also
        2- yes
        3- yes
        4- not yet
        5- external Customer
        Thank you for your attention,
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        • Silvio Balatelli

          “the partner is (in Feb) building hot cats in the US – so why is one now supposedly being shipperd from Ferrara?”

          Rossi is getting lost in his lies. On Apr 30 nothing will happen. No verified shipments and no reports.
          And what happened to the demo unit that was to be installed at an Italian customer?

  • artefact

    From JONP:

    Andrea Rossi
    April 28th, 2013 at 1:22 PM
    Dear Brian:
    We are delivering, this month, to our USA Partner three plants, one industrial plant of 1 MW which is a low temperature heat producing plant, one prototype of Gas fgueled E-Cat and one prototype of Hot Cat plant. The prototypes are to study them and study their industrialization, while their certification is in course. The duty of the 1 MW plant is industrial heat production. The delivery will be made this week.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • http://th vbasic

      Wow! That is stunning. My questions in earlier post about where are all the plants and why only an older plant have been answered. He IS treating the race to get this to market serioulsy when there are so many competitors trying to do the same.

    • KD

      This Rossi statement mean that the E-Cats are not build by his USA partner, but by Rossi production plant.

      What I see is, than many readers confuse some Rossi statements.
      He many times stated, that in Italy is R&D plant. In USA is production plant. And it might be not one but two. One in Florida state, the other one in New Hampshire state.
      Since the tested in 2011 1MW plant, was design and build in Italy. The same (copy) work but on level of building plants for customers was done in USA.
      So, not originally tested in Italy plant was send to military customer, but that build, corrected and assembled in USA.

      It look like, that the April30 delivery to civilian customer is original version shown in the container, for which he have safety certification.
      The new gas, and hot versions are in process of certifications so he can not sell it to customers.
      As he say, he is sending them to his USA partner for testing.

    • GreenWin

      Sounds like a decent plan. Pretty much trumps the importance of “the report” as working products in industrial application is key to market success. Eventually, the academics will rally their egos and whittle down the theory of operation.

    • Lu

      Does “both in the USA” mean they are being manufactured by your USA partner and being delivered to sites in the USA?

      Andrea Rossi
      March 28th, 2013 at 9:51 PM
      Dear Frank Acland:
      Yes.

      Rossi talks a lot but nobody knows what he says. What we need is independent confirmation by a 3rd party.

      • Roger Bird

        What we **want** is independent confirmation, not what we **need**. And whether Rossi has no play or is doing an end run directly into the business and commercial sector, he doesn’t **need** to tell us squat. By telling us anything, he is either doing us a favor and sharing his joy with us, or else he is manipulating us and using us and laughing his arse off.

        • Lu

          You may *want* independent confirmation, but I *need* independent confirmation to take Rossi seriously. Hope this clears your confusion up.

          • Roger Bird

            Lu, I appreciate your clarification, and I admit that I am very sympathetic to your need because I feel very similarly. I am so tired of “Rossi says”. I would be even more tired if I wasn’t having so much fun in this forum chatting with witty people like yourself. (:->)

          • hempenearth

            ..

  • vbasic

    There are some unanswered questions here. Why would a customer want a low temperature E-Cat plant when Rossi made advancements since then up to the `000C Hot Cat? Has the older unit proven to be more reliable and the Hot Cat not ready for prime time? Has there been other plants built besides the Bologna prototype and the one sold to the military customer and this Aprit 30th one? If so why not? I thought he would have up to a dozen by now or did the Hot Cat derail the original plan?

  • daniel maris

    Well Rossi is nearly running out of road… For me the SGS safety certificate persuaded me there was somehting there. But all the doubts still remain.

    It would be so easy for him to provide credible evidence, and yet he fails to do so. Very odd.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      When one thinks of the practicalities and the amount of scepticism around, I think that among fully credible ways to do it, there is no faster or better route besides the one that he’s now following (test by 3rd party scientists).

      It’s a bit similar thing as some people say: if UFO’s are real, why don’t they prove themselves unambiguously by landing on the lawn of the White house. Doing that, they would be shot at. And being real and intelligent by assumption, they know it.

      • robyn wyrick

        With respect, while that argument might be fine as a simile for LENR and Rossi, it actually doesn’t make much sense in the case of UFOs.

        If you presume that they are as advanced beyond us as we are beyond, say the Elizabethan Age, (or a million times more), how many ways might they be able to communicate without risking harm to themselves?

        They could set up shop on the moon, and send us television signals all day long. They could take a position in high orbit and flash bright lights for a decade. They could drop a thousand beacons or hack our communication satellites.

        I see only three plausible scenarios about UFOs: They don’t particularly want to be seen, they aren’t really very advanced compared to Earth, or they don’t visit us.

        But I don’t mean to digress too far.

        :)

        • GreenWin

          robyn, “…how many ways might they be able to communicate without risking harm to themselves?”

          http://bit.ly/ZtZFqp

          • lenrdawn

            And you think they figured out how to find and reach us across hundreds of lightyears of space but are too dumb to communicate in a way that would be understood by humans and couldn’t be attributed to a bunch of drunken farmers with a rake?

            • GreenWin

              dumb? Euclidean geometry is neither dumb, or created by a “bunch” of drunks with “a” rake. But hay… :)

              • jonathan

                Your joking right? Crop circles are man made. There are people who publicly create the most beautiful fractal patterns using crops.

            • GreenWin

              However, I would be grateful if you would introduce me to the “farmers” you mention. THX.

              • lenrdawn

                Certainly. But I’m sure you can google “how to make crop circles” yourself.

                • georgehants

                  If what you say is true, it would be easy and sensible for the media, army, university’s, to arrange for a major crop circle, picked from those already made, to be copied and constructed overnight in a designated field with cameras watching.
                  The Evidence for genuine Crop Circles is the simple fact this has not been done, presumably because they know they cannot do it.
                  No rehearsals allowed as no failed and abandoned major Crop Circle has ever been found.

                • lenrdawn

                  You can join a circle crew and do it yourself, George. It is quite fun, although I urge you to ask the farmer in question for permission first. They can get really nasty when you ruin part of their harvest and don’t offer some compensation (and pick a Saturday to do it – work is no fun when you’ve been trampling all night).

                  http://www.circlemakers.org

                • Anthony

                  George is right – there’s no way those über intricate and über accurate patterns and designs could ever be done by a bunch of Young Farmers after a night in the pub, nor by anyone else for that matter.

                • lenrdawn

                  “there’s no way…”

                  That is the most rewarding part of it all – when you worked your butt off and then read that this was so cool, it couldn’t possibly have been done by humans. Very flattering. It is also funny to read elaborate interpretations about geometries, symbolism and number theories in your circle on some sites which bear no apparent relation to what the artist told you his design was all about but make perfect sense in themselves. Even better are intricate explanations for things you know only appeared because somebody cocked up (trampled a positive area or a wrong line somewhere) and the artist had to improvise and make up something totally new on the spot.

          • b4FreeEnergy

            Very nice collection! They could post us the schematics of a free-energy generator though with no moving parts and no catalysators … and no refills …

    • Roger Bird

      Actually, as much as I am annoyed by “Rossi says”, there is nothing odd about his behavior. He is trying to protect industrial secrets that he is having trouble patenting because patenting officers have their heads stuck up where the Sun does not shine.

  • Chris I

    OMG, watching Rossi’s progress is like watching a snail climb up a pain… oooops, I meant a pane! of glass. Except at least you can see the snail all the time, unlike Rossi.

    • Roger Bird

      HA!! But Chris I, this is only because we are plastered up to our computer screens waiting with extreme anticipation for the birth of the New Age.

      • GreenWin

        Roger, being plastered to a computer screen is old school. I learned this from sceps… far more practical and immediate :)

        http://bit.ly/15SiirL

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      In my opinion, while Rossi’s progress looks slow in comparison to media timescale which is a few days, it’s lightning fast in comparison to typical technology development effort. The 1050 C, COP>=11 HotCan might feel like yesterday’s news now that it has been superseded by MouseCat, but just little over a year ago he was still struggling with how to exceed 200 C stably at COP=6.

      • Stone

        Today, 28 April 2013, the Hot-Cat progress:

        “…we are very close to produce electric power, with the stability we reached at 350 °C. We are delivering Hot Cat prototypes aimed to produce electric power.”

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          Certainly, it’s a setback to hear that the higher temperature reactors that he had last autumn apparently didn’t work for full 6 months since he has now fallen to 350 C. However, 350 is still enough for self-sufficient energy production. Just the waste heat from electricity production would be larger.

          Since we are dealing with a phenomenon that’s supposed to last 6 months, it’s not possible to have a new type of reactor in days or weeks and to be sure that it runs satisfactorily for six months. I guess he makes several types of reactors, tests them first for a short time and if they seem to run, he leaves them running for 6 months. Reactor types that he uses to make 1 MW plants he has probably tested for full 6 months. The finishing schedule of his first HotCat plant is broadly consistent with this: the first individual HotCats appeared in public some 6+3 months ago.

      • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

        In a way you are very right. The reported cat now is absolutely amazing compared to the reported cat two years ago! However, the publicly proven component is well described by Chris’ painful snail. Most notably, not only can I not buy one down at Home Depot, but the closest I have come to laying eyes on one is the look I had at a CFL bulb.

        • GreenWin

          Hate to bang the drum but, by ANY comparison to the promises and taking of $$billions in public funds – the hot fusion-ists have moved glacially! Making a snail appear to be… FTL.

      • Chris I

        As I understand, he is talking about the low temp version. How many MW has he so far delivered? Not many it seems, he isn’t into mass production.

        And, of course, we are watching the snail through frosted glass.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Love it.

  • Bob

    Since the 30th April is only 2 days away it is probably a bit pointless to bother making predictions rather than just wait two days. (I suppose he does mean April 2013)
    Oh well, might as well live dangerously.
    I predict that the new ecat about to be delivered on 30th April will be the old ecat which was delivered (not) on 30th October 2011.
    I predict it will probably have a cosmetic makeover, new paint, new plumbing.
    I also predict it will probably eventually be sold two or three more times to new customers.
    I also predict none of the customers will agree to it being viewed in operation.
    I predict they wont agree to being named or their location being made known.
    I predict only general information will be released, all by Rossi.
    I predict all those who hang on his every word will be ecstatic over the announcements.
    I predict those who have long since given up on him will not be at all impressed.
    Before anyone blows a head gasket, just keep a lid on it for two days and maybe you can have the pleasure of seeing me proved all wrong.
    But only maybe.

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      Bob, you are so optimistic. : )

    • http://hybridships.co.uk Val Gorsky

      Last time I went to this site, 2 years ago, I notice that nothing has changed..Rossi is an errhm..fraud?

      • Peter Roe

        See you in a couple of years then?

        • http://hybridships.co.uk Val Gorsky

          another word is time management…wasted time never comes back..

        • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

          lol. : )

    • Roger Bird

      Bob, I notice that you are still here, at e-catworld. So I guess that you haven’t given up on LENR or Rossi. People who have given up aren’t here any more.

      • julius

        very true.

      • Bob

        Yes, You’re right. Pathetic isn’t it?
        I’m still about 90% sure something will eventually come from LENR, but I’m now 99% sure it will not come from Rossi.
        So why do I bother looking if I see the probability as only 1% or less?
        Well, I see the chances of winning Lotto as far less than 1% but I still check my tickets.
        The fact is, if or when something ever comes from all this you can count that as a hugely big lotto win for the whole world.
        So I keep checking.
        In any case, this site reports on anything to do with LENR, not just Rossi.

  • John

    Andrea Rossi
    April 28th, 2013 at 7:25 AM
    Dear georgehants:
    Important things are on their way to happen, but our job is not to entertain, our job is to make sound working plants.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    April 28th, 2013 at 7:23 AM
    Dear John:
    Yes, it will be done.
    Warm Regdrds,
    A.R.

    John
    April 28th, 2013 at 7:05 AM
    Dear Dr. Rossi,

    Would you release some pics of the perfected 1KW two-staged hot cat on April 30th as well?

    georgehants
    April 28th, 2013 at 4:15 AM
    Dear Mr. Rossi, while waiting for “the report” it is very quiet and frustrating on the Cold Fusion websites.
    Please put up a good picture or announce something positive regarding the Cat’s to keep us all involved.
    Many thanks.

    • mark

      I think, It would be wise for Rossi to entertain/involve a small number of hardcore supporters on his side in this early stage of his controversial tech.

      • GreenWin

        mark, do not doubt he has a competent team around him. And they know precisely what they’re doing.

        Even the Thomases are sneaking back over to look.

        • NJT

          It would be interesting if administration would tell us the increase in hits to this site on April 30th…

          • Roger Bird

            I am having so much trouble keeping up that I don’t have time to mock AGW.

            • NJT

              Roger that Mr. Bird, but would be interesting non the less just to see the upticks coming here, likely from all the naysayers, just to make sure they will not have to start sautéing their hats and/or looking for that other black bird referenced here a few threads back… LOL!

              • Roger Bird

                There does seem to have been something of an uptick of naysayers, like Fibb and Marbles who gave me a hard time for talking about AGW.

  • Torbjörn

    Are you sure that the plant has been built at Rossi’s US partner’s facilities? Will it be delivered to the USA?

    Andrea Rossi

    December 31st, 2012 at 7:02 AM

    Dear Scott L.:
    As I said and wrote many times, the Container of the 1 MW plant is the same tested one year ago, since to the military Customer we delivered different ones. This one, seen also in the Swedish Television, has been used to make tests, modifications, improvements, certification. It has been a tremendous tool for R&D. Now it is destined to a Customer. It will be delivered on March, after further series of modifications we have in course now. Thanks to it now we can pass to a repetitive manufacturing line. After a glorious first life as a prototype for R&D, it is on his way to go to work in a centralized heating plant to supply heat: this will be his seconf life.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    And what happened to this one?

    Andrea Rossi

    October 30th, 2012 at 8:35 PM

    Dear Emilio Icaza:

    Yes, Leonardo Corp is very much powerful now. I can already say that the first 1 MW hot cat will go in operation within February 2013. It will not be a military application, therefore selected persons will be allowed to visit it. It will be installed in a big power production and distribution plant.
    This is the new. The plant is made in the USA.

    • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

      It’s a good question, Tjorborn. For a long time I assumed the first plant would be delivered in Europe, so I asked AR about it:

      Frank Acland
      March 28th, 2013 at 12:10 PM

      Which is to be delivered to a customer first: the Warm Cat in Europe, or the Hot Cat in the USA?

      Andrea Rossi
      March 28th, 2013 at 4:34 PM
      Dear Frank Acland:
      Both in the USA.

      Then I followed up:

      Does “both in the USA” mean they are being manufactured by your USA partner and being delivered to sites in the USA?

      Andrea Rossi
      March 28th, 2013 at 9:51 PM
      Dear Frank Acland:
      Yes.

      • Torbjörn

        So the 1 MW plant that was built in Bologna could right now be producing heat in a centralized heating plant? But where?

      • Shane D.

        Very contradictory as usual with everything Rossi.

        After the 28 Oct 2012 test of the warm-cat Rossi stated it was being shipped to the military. Over the next several months, after sharp eyed readers noted the very same prototype still sitting in his garage, Rossi changed the story and said there was a misunderstanding, as the warm-cat was still in his garage as noted, but being modified (gaskets tightened) per customers request and to be shipped that spring. By spring the story changed again and Rossi said that a new warm-cat had been made and shipped to the military customer.

        Now, this past december, Rossi claims again that this very same original warm-cat was to be the one shipped to the new cusotmer come 2013.

        Later on, in response to ADMIN above, it changes to a “manufactured in the USA” model that will be shipped to the public customer on 30 Apr. Not the original as Rossi earlier said.

        Hard to say if Rossi is s devious con artist caught up in a web of lies, or just a sloppy mad genius lazy with the facts?

        Were it not for his public tests, scientific observer testimonials and DGT, Brillouin, Miley, Duncan etc., I wouldn’t give Rossi any credence whatsoever.

        • lcd

          good points

        • Peter Roe

          Thanks for the summary Shane. However there may be some confusion between unit types. Unless there is another specifically-promised date for delivery, I believe that the one scheduled for 30th April is the first ‘hot cat’ unit built by the partner, which is not (AFAIK) directly connected with the original container unit. This delivery was orginally estimated by Rossi to be ready in Feb this year, and a couple of months delay doesn’t seem to be anything to be concerned about under the circumstances.

          The situation regarding 1MW container units seems much more confused, but I don’t think any contractual dates have been mentioned in the latter case (correct me if I’m wrong).

          What does worry me though is Rossi’s current assertion that the partner is also building (or is it rebuilding) a 1MW LT container unit. My understanding was that the Hot Cat IP only had been sold to the partner, and that LT units would continue to be made in Europe, presumably under the Leonardo flag. But if the partner is building LT units as well – which would imply that this IP has also been sold to them – where does that leave the European operation in Sweden and Italy, the resellers including Hydro Fusion, and all the stuff about the rebuilt original container unit?

          As you say, many contradictions seem to remain, despite Admin’s attempts to make things clearer.

          • Jimr

            Peter, per Admins statement heading this entry, it is not a hot cat being shipped.

            • Peter Roe

              Yes, that’s so, but my understanding was that the ‘contractual’ date of the 30th was for a hot cat. A Rossi blog reader seems to be under the same impression and has asked Rossi for clarification, but no answer as yet.

              “Brian April 28th, 2013 at 9:30 AM

              Mr. Rossi
              I had previously understood that the plant being delivered to your partner this month was a hot-cat? Was I misunderstanding? Are there two plants being delivered?
              Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
              Brian”

            • Peter Roe

              I’ve been back through JONP to find out why it had seemed to me that Rossi was supposed to be delivering a hot cat unit at the end of April, but having done so I’m still not that much wiser.

              On balance though it looks like Rossi himself was mixing the two types up (deliberately?) until quite recently, when he became clearer that the ‘contract’ involves an LT unit, possibly in a smaller housing than previously. I’ve copied below some relevant answers and would be interested in how others read the first two in particular (‘confusing’ bits bolded):

              Andrea Rossi
              February 5th, 2013 at 3:09 AM

              Dear Michele Dalessandro:
              To make short a long story:
              1- indipendent third party tests are in course, the publication will be probably made within February/March, indipendently from the results, on a scientific magazine after peer reviewing
              2- we are manufacturing industrial plants, whose delivery is foreseen starting from March/April , together with our USA Partner
              3- we are focusing on Hot Cats ( E-Cats at high temperature) fueled by electric power or gas
              Warm Regards,
              A.R.

              Dear Brian:
              We are working very hard on the Hot Cats deliveries and on their safety certifications. As you know, upon them is in course an Indipendent Third Party Validation that recently has been prolonged with further tests. I suppose that the publication of the results will be made by March, after the end of the tests. Again, I want to remember that the timing of the Third Party work and of their publication does not depend on my will. By March also the safety certification ( which also is in course) will be advanced. The delivery of the first plant should be made in March/April. We are doing our best, but consider that we are making our path through an inexplored jungle: nevertheless, we are respecting the scheduling we assigned to ourselves in November.
              Warm Regards,
              A.R.

              Andrea Rossi
              March 24th, 2013 at 10:53 PM

              DEAR GEORGEHANTS:
              YOUR COMMENT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE OPENS THE GATE FOR THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:
              THE TESTS OF THE THIRD INDIPENDENT PARTY HAVE BEEN COMPLETED YESTERDAY.
              I DID NOT ATTEND, THEREFORE I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY THE RESULTS, THAT WILL SURELY BE PUBLISHED BY THE EXAMINATORS, PROBABLY AROUND THE HALF OF APRIL. I MET THE 11 PROFESSORS AND EXPERTS THAT MADE THE TESTS AND THEY WERE VERY POSITIVE. ONE OF THEM TOLD ME ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. I COULD NOT GET MORE INFORMATION, BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE TO ELABORATE THE DATA TO PREPARE THE PUBLICATION. ALL THE PROFESSORS SAID THE TEST IS GONE WELL, VERY WELL. THE LAST TEST ENDED AFTER 120 HOURS OF UNINTERRUPTED OPERATION OF THE REACTORS ( THE NEW GENERATION OF HOT CATS IS MADE BY A TWO STAGE SYSTEM, MADE WITH AN ACTIVATOR WITH RESISTANCES COUPLED WITH A KIND OF CHARGE, WHICH ACTIVATES THE E-CAT WITH A DIFFERENT CHARGE). THE EFFECT IS STUNNING, WE SAW IN OUR PRIVATE TESTS, AND HAS BEEN REPLICATED BY THE THIRD INDIPENDENT PARTY.
              NOW WE PASS TO THE INDUSTRIAL ENGAGEMENTS: WE HAVE TO DELIVER OUR PLANTS BY THE END OF APRIL.
              WARM REGARDS,
              ANDREA ROSSI

              Andrea Rossi
              March 26th, 2013 at 3:38 PM

              Dear Hans -Joachim Mueller:
              We have to deliver many differentiated items. As a 1 MW plant , we have to delivery 1 in April, in the USA.
              Warm Regards,
              A.R.

              And then the answer to Frank’s enquiry in the article:

              F. “Which is to be delivered to a customer first: the Warm Cat in Europe, or the Hot Cat in the USA?”
              “Andrea Rossi
              March 28th, 2013 at 4:34 PM

              Dear Frank Acland:
              Both in the USA.
              Warm Regards,
              A.R.”

              I’m still confused!

              • Bob

                You’re still confused?
                That’s probably because it’s confusing.
                However, he has clearly stated that there is no safety certificate for the hotcats yet but there is a safety certificate for the original 1Mw ecat. Logically then, the unit being delivered must be the original ecat design and it cannot be significantly different from the one for which the safety certificate was issued.
                Therefore it follows that the one being delivered on 30th April is either the original one delivered (not) on 30th October 2011 or a close copy.
                Unless of course he has decided to ignore his previously held position of not selling anything without the required safety certificates.

                • Peter Roe

                  I think I’ll just stop speculating on the basis of Rossi’s ambiguous and shifting statements, and simply wait to see what transpires.

                  Trying to reconcile this stuff just makes my brain hurt. Que Sera, Sera.

        • Redford

          “By spring the story changed again and Rossi said that a new warm-cat had been made and shipped to the military customer.”

          I really can’t recall anything among those lines. Are you sure ? Hot cat always hase been clearly a different device.

          What I do recall thus is that the plant “delivered” was indeed seen and I do find it very odd to have a second one that will never have been seen delivered to a secret customer. I can cope the secret customer but I find the “let’s show the same container again hard to believe”. In a sense thus it’s not the move of a scammer. Still, presenting those same images will be very damaging again. OTOH, if it works and has a public customer, it will kind of close the case.

          • Peter Roe

            I have a post in moderation that copies some Rossi replies on JONP that gave me that impression, but on studying them more carefully they seem to be rather ambiguous.

            Someone has asked Rossi to clarify which it is, but recent replies (including those to Admin) seem to indicate that I was mistaken and the 30th ‘deadline’ refers to a standard LT unit (I had thought that Leonardo retained the IP for these, but apparently not).

        • GreenWin

          Geez, it’s almost as if these responses have been carefully coached… To throw the dogs off track?

  • http://marivic.com.do Omar Gomez

    Nothing will happend imo.

    This whole bussines plan is (imo) kind of absurb.

    Back in 2005 google start working on a new product unknown from then. In 2008 they release a developers product and open source it so anyone with skill push it further. 5 years later they rule the market.

    I’m talking about the android os. Google make a lot of money and the world is a more productive place.

    Anyone who think a new form of electric source will succeed in a traditional business model will fail.

    • julius

      very good vision and understanding !

    • GreenWin

      It is a good example of how open source components of an idea can speed mass adoption. Google maintains control of Android OS via copyright, patent and Android Software Development Kit License Agreements. Their SDKs make clear, “You may not use the SDK if you do not accept this License Agreement.”

  • Tom Ammon

    I’ll make a prediction–there will be no independent party report. Now why would I think that.

    • Roger Bird

      Tom, that made me laugh and brought some joy into my life (despite my nerve pain). I share your frustration with “Rossi says”.

  • Stone

    Why neither the “abstract” of the third party Report has been yet published (in advance respect to the full Report) as usually happens for the important scientific publications?

    • John Littlemist

      Because it is under scrutiny by the BIG OIL ;-)

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Abstracts are sometimes published beforehand in case of unreviewed conference presentations, but never (in my experience) in case of refereed papers.

      • Stone

        When researchers submit a paper to a specialized scientific journal for publication normally their work should contains an “abstract”. If missing the magazine asks to the authors to write it, therefore it should be always available.

        The same abstract can be used also for presentations, conferences and so on but its main purpose is to present and to summarize in few words the main contents of the paper.

        • Peter Roe

          Pekka is referring to the publication of an abstract, not to its existence.

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          Correct: when submitting a paper, an abstract must be included. But until the paper is published, the abstract and the rest of the paper are only visible to the journal’s editor and the referees.

          The same abstract is not usually copied verbatim in different places because ethical rules of science do not allow duplicate publication. Most scientists avoid abstract duplication also in cases where the conference might not have explicit rulings against it.

          • Stone

            In my experience the abstract normally is sent weeks before the full article. If and when the scientific journal accepts it, the full paper can be sent and submitted to the referees.
            Often the same “abstract” is sent to more then one magazine so the contents of the abstract can be visible to more people.

            • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

              Which field has this practice? It’s new to me and my experience is from plasma physics, geophysics, space physics, numerical analysis and space engineering.

              • Stone

                IEEE recognizes that the author can share their unpublished articles on public sites such as ArXiv. Once articles have been accepted for publication by IEEE, authors are required to post an IEEE copyright notice on their preprints.

                A good policy.

                • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

                  OK. But as far as I know, Arxiv typically contains the whole paper, not just the abstract.

                  At some point earlier Rossi said that if the journal won’t publish it, then they might put it to arxiv.

                • Stone

                  I can’t reply more, the reply button now is missing…

                  So taking into account last point quoted by Pekka, I return to my initial question:
                  “why the third party Report has not been published?”
                  (on ArXiv as well, waiting for the Report to be published somewhere, who knows when)

                • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

                  Possible answer: it was submitted to Nature or Science which does not allow to publish in arxiv beforehand.

                • Stone

                  From Science site:

                  “General Information for Authors:
                  …Distribution on the Internet may be considered prior publication and may compromise the originality of the paper as a submission to Science, although we do allow posting of research papers on not-for-profit preprint servers such as arxiv.org.”

                  So it seems that also Science allows preprint on arXiv.

                  When I have time, I will try to verify for Nature journal.

              • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

                Nature’s embargo policy is at http://www.nature.com/nature/authors/policy/embargo.html. In principle it allows arxiv.org, but not a discussion with the media. In case of E-cat verification, refusing to discuss it with the media might cause unnecessary problems.

                Maybe the rules of N. and S. have been recently somewhat relaxed because I recall that people who had submitted to N. or S. were careful in the past about what to say and what not in a conference presentation.

                • Garry

                  Yes, Pekka, you can talk about the work. Usually what’s in a talk is not the complete story. I’ve never heard of N/S pulling a paper because people talked. I’ve had the journals COME to me and say “Loved your talk, would you submit to us?”. The finished story (not telling you anything you don’t know) is far more valid when peer-reviewed.

              • Garry

                I have published in both Nature and Science, and their “sub-journals” several times (well la de dah to me). That said, I have never seen them publish the abstract ahead of time.

                If this is a real result, they would want to publish in such a journal, but usually publication in such a journal has the “inventor” or primary scientist as one of the authors. Since Rossi is not an author, I don’t see how a “report” gets into Science or Nature. Science or Nature would demand “reproducibility”. So, if it is in one of those journals there would have to be some theory or result. Nature/Science would be loathe to publish a “black box” in my opinion (Nature especially got hoodwinked a few decades ago).

                In Nature/Science all articles are embargoed until the day before publication at the least. Nature and Science often work with the authors and their Institute(s) to arrange a news release if the paper is important enough.

                If there is a “news and views” (a layman’s version) written in the journal (usually a summary and perspective), it is often written by one of the reviewers who especially liked the paper.