Philanthropy, Humanitarianism and LENR

There’s something that has been on my mind for quite a long time, and I have touched on it from time to time here. It deals with the issue of how we transition from a world where the energy resources we use are scarce, expensive, hazardous, and difficult to obtain — to one where energy may become far less expensive, much more powerful, and cleaner.

While the end result of a new LENR energy source could mean abundance for all, the transition from the old energy world to a new one is not going to be easy. There are many interests vested in the current state of affairs with many peoples’ livelihoods dependent on the current energy sector — both directly and indirectly. The entry of viable LENR into the marketplace could lead to the contraction of many big industries (e.g. utilities, mining, drilling, nuclear) leading to the loss of  jobs and income, and we could see poverty increase in certain areas as a result.

How will we deal with this problem? No doubt some in politics and government will try to soften the blow — we could see new welfare programs being proposed to help displaced workers. Maybe new levels of taxation will be proposed to deal with this issue. There may even be attempts to slow down the deployment of LENR to protect the status quo. It’s hard to say now what the reaction might be.

There could be another way to deal with the problem outside of the political arena, however. I think there is going to be an important place for philanthropic or humanitarian efforts to help get this technology into places where it is needed, and I expect that as awareness of a superior energy source spreads there will be people who will be wanting to help accelerate its proliferation in places where there is an obvious need could help many people in need.

We might find that if many people recognize the advantages of LENR there will be a new level of public-spiritedness on the part of individuals and organization who will be willing to voluntarily contribute to help the spread of the technology, since it will be in the best interest of everyone that the transition to a better form of energy goes smoothly. It could be that large foundations who already contribute millions to humanitarian efforts around the world would get behind LENR. It’s possible that promoting new forms of energy could become part of the many environmental campaigns that are an extremely powerful force today.

Here are just a few examples that come to mind where we could see humanitarian uses of LENR fairly quickly. There are certainly many more.

  • Desalination projects in arid regions
  • Power generation and heat in places of natural disasters, or in refugee settlements
  • Power and heat for schools and hospitals
  • Distributed power source in regions of the world where there is no grid

Early communications with Andrea Rossi have indicated that he is open to cooperating in some way with use of the E-Cat for humanitarian purposes.

If anyone is interested in more in-depth discussion on this topic, and perhaps exploring ways to get involved in some kind of humanitarian activity, I have started a group in LENRConnect as a place for people to discuss the issue in more depth. At the moment the group is open by invitation only so if you’d like to join please send an email to [email protected]

 

 

  • Roger Bird

    psi, I don’t like posting to an extremely narrow strip of the screen, so I am responding here.

    I agree that government most certainly has it’s place. I live off of SS. But Obama has increased the size of government in both relative and absolute terms more than any president in history. And I can’t get raw milk because the FDA is out of freaking control.

  • John Littlemist

    “What If We Never Run Out of Oil?”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/what-if-we-never-run-out-of-oil/309294/?single_page=true#comments

    I couldn’t find a single mention of CF/LENR in the comments section…

    • Roger Bird

      Go back and you will find a comment. Why in the world didn’t you leave a comment of your own?

    • GreenWin

      Admin made this a new topic heading today.

  • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

    Let’s try and keep posts respectful here. We have people from all kinds of backgrounds here with a wide variety of points of view on all kinds of topics. I don’t want the site to devolve into a place for people to take personal shots at one another.

    I suppose we can’t keep politics from coming up, but E-Cat World is not a place to get into heated political debates and will moderate when I think things get too acrimonious. I don’t mind the occasional asides, but I hope we can prevent things from getting too far off topic.

    • Roger Bird

      “Acrimonious? Acrimonious? We don’t need no stinking acrimony.” (:->) Like Bob Dylan saying “The only thing to hate is hatred itself.”

      • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

        +2.

  • georgehants

    The Independent
    One giant leap for mankind: £13bn Iter project makes breakthrough in quest for nuclear fusion, a solution to climate change and an age of clean, unlimited energy
    It may be the most ambitious scientific venture ever: a global collaboration to create an unlimited supply of clean, cheap energy. And this week it took a crucial step forward. Steve Connor report.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/one-giant-leap-for-mankind-13bn-iter-project-makes-breakthrough-in-quest-for-nuclear-fusion-a-solution-to-climate-change-and-an-age-of-clean-unlimited-energy-8590480.html

    • GreenWin

      The first problem with this story is error in translation of ITER. It does NOT mean “the way” in Latin – Viam does. It is a typical acronym meaning International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor.

      “The daunting complexity of the Iter project is demonstrated by how long it has taken to reach this early stage of construction – and how much further it still has to go. There is at least another decade of building work and a further decade of testing before the reactor will be allowed to “go nuclear”.”

      Est defectus boni.

      • Roger Bird

        It is actually, for me, the complexity and cost of hot-fusion that my intuition does not like. For what I can see, this project indicates even more centralization of energy, which I don’t think is a good thing.

        Also, the fact that the time to ignition keeps getting longer the longer they work on hot-fusion.

      • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

        iter itineris, means ‘the path,’ so its not far off.

        • GreenWin

          psi, Latin refs still put this as “route, road or journey.” In any case it’s a far stretch to interpret an acronym for Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor as “the way.” If it were, at $230 billion tax dollars and 60 years in the making it is more like the WRONG way.

          http://www.latinwordlist.com/latin-words/iter-itineris-15776161.htm

          • Roger Bird

            Well, GreenWin, here is your chance to invent a really swell insult for ITER. Just convert “wrong way” into Latin and fiddle with it a little.

            • GreenWin

              I don’t do insults Rog… I do Tough Love. 🙂

              • Roger Bird

                Would Tough Love in this case be like reminding people that in 1970 COP < 1 was supposed to 35 years into the future, and now, 43 years later, COP < 1 is supposed to be 50 years into the future? Is that your kind of tough love?

                These numbers, of course, don't include the time between COP < 1 and commercialization.

                This kind of tough love should be on the desk of every politician in the world.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      It’s just the same old Cyclops with a big club approach.

  • georgehants

    Science News
    … from universities, journals, and other research organizations
    Movement of Pyrrole Molecules Defy ‘Classical’ Physics.
    Apr. 26, 2013 — New research shows that movement of the ring-like molecule pyrrole over a metal surface runs counter to the centuries-old laws of ‘classical’ physics that govern our everyday world.
    Using uniquely sensitive experimental techniques, scientists have found that laws of quantum physics — believed primarily to influence at only sub-atomic levels — can actually impact on a molecular level.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130426115449.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29

    • Ted-X

      I mentioned earlier that carbon monoxide, present in Celani’s recent experiments creates nickel tetracarbonyl (a volatile compound) which charges nickel negatively and has resonance structures. The electron orbitals (hybridized) indicate that electrons must get very close to the nucleus. The mechanism of LENR might be via electron capture from the hybridized orbitals in resonance structures.

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        I guess you mean charges hydrogen negatively? By the way I replied in previous thread.

        I hope Celani and MFMP are careful with carbonyls which are very toxic to breath.

        • Ted-X

          Pekka,
          The negative charge would be on the nickel atoms themselves. The reaction would be an electron capture by the nucleus of nickel, followed by some other nuclear transformations; I think it is called beta-capture. The hybridized orbitals were not commented upon by anybody, yet.

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            I don’t know much about hybridised orbitals, but isn’t it anyway related to physics of outer shell electrons? If so, how do their electrons move close to the nucleus which is surrounded by the inner electron shells? In other words, if an electron (maybe initial free electron, or valence electron) approaches close to a nucleus (any nucleus), it sees an attractive positive charge (which is why inner electrons are tightly bound). Then, electron capture might occur. But why would the probability of electron capture depend on what the outer electrons are doing, since the electric field around the nucleus is largely determined by the inner shells which shouldn’t care much about outer electrons?

            It’s a complex matter, but maybe this gets us forward a bit although my knowledge is sketchy.

            • GreenWin

              Pekka, as I recall DGT claimed elliptical shells for some of their electron orbits. Presumably if the approach is lower than the ground state of inner shell electrons, they get their capture event, which then, apparently (if electron is heavy enough,) makes an ultra slow neutron.

              All quite arcane, and easier to visualize with particles as wave function, IMO.

  • Al_D

    I think that it will be an orderly transition based mainly on economic principles with some political assistance. It will partly depend on the order in which and how widely the E-Cat is produced and marketed. I believe it will be an orderly transition in the main.

    Home heating will probably be the first transition, since it is the easiest and most widely used. Where it goes from there will depend on improving the efficiencies of the product and if practical and economical methods of electricity generation can be devised,

    The whole thing will probably take a number of decades as current methods of power generation, transmission, and use will have to be economically depreciated. China will be a leader in the transition.

    Charlie Rose recently interviewed Jeremy Grantham (a British numbers guy) who revealed (to me at least) that China is currently consuming about half of the world’s oil and coal production and badly needs a breather. He also pointed out that every civilization prior to a couple of hundred years ago, self destructed by starvation due to over population and a bad turn in the climate. The difference, this time, has been cheap energy, of which we are rapidly running out. A good thing for current cultures has been that with rapidly improving standards of living, the birth rates have drastically fallen.

    I think that we will muddle through.

    • GreenWin

      Well put. And a key is the fact that birth rates fall as standard of living rises. This is a self-leveling factor alarmists fail to grok.

      • georgehants

        Does not capitalism demand and encourage a growing population, or by definition the economies where people have mostly all they need will stagnate.
        Without the insidious continual advertising convincing gullible people to always “need” more and more mostly unneeded and unwanted rubbish, then again capitalism would collapse.

  • georgehants

    ScienceNOW – Up to the minute news from Science
    ScienceShot: Solving the Mystery of Supercharged Lightning
    The serendipitous flybys of two satellites near a tropical thunderstorm have given researchers an unprecedented look at terrestrial gamma-ray flashes—a mysterious, high-energy phenomenon that scientists first observed in 1991.
    http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2013/04/scienceshot-solving-the-mystery-.html?rss=1

  • HarryD

    Speaking of Humanitarianism

    The real challenge would be on how the new arising abundance of energy, which would give humanity and earth matters a moment of breath, and the shift of power it could imply, can help stop the problem of overpopulation.
    The perspectives of abundant energy could imply a boost to population growth which could bring much more problems to humanity, and thus the humanitarian problem factor doesn’t get solved but gets transmuted (to stay in style).

    • Joel C.

      Not necessarily so.

      I’m sure if you think carefully about this – you’ll understand the other possibilities out of this energy-paradigm transformation.

    • Roger Bird

      The population of the world will plateau out at 10 billion. Check out http://www.gapminder.com and put both axises at “number of children per woman”. Then hit “Play”. This shows that the number of children per woman is streaking towards 2 (or less). I did not discover this. Scientists and mathematicians calculate that the population will plateau out at 10 billion. For me 10 billion is about 9 billion too many, but with LENR 10 billion would be much easier to deal with than without LENR, and we will see.

      So, you can stop worrying and worry about something else, more important. For example, you could worry about not worrying. That would be a most excellent worry. We all need to do that.

      • Joel C.

        After we stop worrying, we learn to worry about why we’re not worrying anymore. :-p

  • Fibb

    Admin,

    I like your site and check it daily but you have some nutters on here that like to get on their anti-science soapbox and spout OFF TOPIC nonsense.

    Random postings about AGW, politics and religion need to find another home. So I hope you can do a better job at keeping this site’s comments purely about Rossi and other LENR happenings.

    It’s a real turn off to see so much chaff among the wheat. I don’t have time for it and I think it counters your noble efforts here.

    • Marbles

      I totally agree there is far too much off topic here, hopefully any day now a report will be published which could drive a lot of traffic too this blog and if what they find here is loads of tinfoil hat stuff then it will detract from the message most of the people following this blog want to put across, so please can certain posters (you know who you are, or at least admin does) just resist the urge to trot their hobby horses around for a few weeks it will benefit everyone 🙂

      • Roger Bird

        “tinfoil hat stuff” And you being here and believing in LENR isn’t “tinfoil hat” thinking for the majority of physicists, for the consensus of scientists in the world? I would think that that sort of intolerant attitude would not be here, that LENR would scare away all of the intolerant people. I am not using the word “intolerant” in the sense that I believe everything I read here; I am using in the sense that I don’t give people a hard time if they believe in little green guys in UFOs. I might suggest reasons why that belief is incorrect, but I wouldn’t put them down as you did. If you promote your intolerant attitude, remember that you are already in the cross hairs just by being at this site.

        • GreenWin

          Marbles has lost them. And Fibb is the appropriate moniker. 🙂

        • julius

          Excellent, you are perfectly right.

    • AB

      These repetitive polarizing tirades bother me as well.

      • julius

        Just don’t read them.

    • julius

      “Random postings about AGW, politics and religion need to find another home. So I hope you can do a better job at keeping this site’s comments purely about Rossi and other LENR happenings”

      I strongly disagree with that, especially when it comes to keep comments PURELY (no less than that) about Rossi and other LENR.

      Can you deny that all LENR history is strongly connected to politic ?

      Also, since everything is connected, where do you fix the limit of what you publish and what you don’t.

      But if the e-catworld webmaster wants to spend time censoring messages according to their contents, it is on his own, but time can be used with more efficiency than that.
      Thinking of it, I’d like to thank the webmaster of this website and for what he is doing.

      If some people like Fibb are feel bothered by some messages, just don’t read them, that’s simple, get over it and let people express their point of view, that way of imposing things reminds me the mindset of an old world, that same world who burried LENR, and that’s an old way of thinking.
      What is this strange software in your brain that make you want to impose things on other ?

      People here are more open-minded than the average people, just because they are here is a proof of it, and open-minded doesn’t mean that you have to eat everything others says, but at least to let them express what they feel about reality.

      I visit this website, more than one time a day, and I like to read comments, especially If I can find some very good link, I enjoy the point of view of others, and I’m always pleased to learn things appart from LENR, just for the pleasure to connect all the dots.

      I believe there must be a moderation, of course, but not in that sense, only when it is obvious like advertisements, complete non-sense comments, insults, threats etc… that kind of stuff.

      • GreenWin

        +1!

      • NJT

        +2

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      LENR raises fundamental questions about the nature of inquiry. No post that addresses these questions is “off topic.” Diversity is the spice of life. AGW is a significant topic, closely related to energy policy and also to the problems of modern science. What is chaff to you may be another person’s golden nugget. If you don’t have time for something, don’t read it. Frank does a great job moderating this site, and in general the level of discussion is high and the unnecessary negativism minimal. Its as simple as that. Anyone who comes here and is offended by frank discussion about AGW probably doesn’t belong here anyway. Just my 2 cents.

      • Roger Bird

        All of these topics challenge our epistemological insight. Really, I really, really meant to use that word. Really. How do we know something? How do we know that we know something. Who do we trust? These are all important and challenging and fascinating questions. Everyone trusts different people for different reasons. I trust scientists who put their careers on the line to be telling the truth as they see it. And I trust the part about “as they see it” if they are physicists who are observing a physics demonstration. I don’t trust scientists who don’t look at the evidence of something that could jeopardize their careers. And I could go on and on, but that would take all the fun out of being here if I explained everything, which I couldn’t anyway.

        • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

          Or, as Hamlet would say, “there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

          • Roger Bird

            I thought Oliver Wendell Holmes said that.

            My wife’s first language is a Filipino language. Once she asked me, seriously, “Did Shakespeare invent English?” I thought that was very cute and very flattering to Shakespeare.

  • Marcel

    I have been following cold fusion/ LENR-news for years. I have high hopes for the e-cat. I sure hope the e-cat will deliver on its promises but after all these years I have adopted a wait-and-see attitude. If the e-cat turns out be true, it could be a blessing for society, but I’m not sure it will.
    I guess it all depends on how we manage the transition from scarcity to abundance of energy. The sudden availability of almost-free energy could, in my opinion, be devestating to society because we are already depleting all the earths resources and with developing nations catching up with us (e.g. 16 million cars produced in 2012 in China compared to 14 million US) it is just a matter of time before this will become a major issue for our economies.
    I’m affraid that free energy will make people go mad even more and cause a giant economy-bubble that will blow up in our face and which will leave us with a giant pollution problem and a broken economy.

    • GreenWin

      Marcel, in case you missed it, LENR is a pollution-less source of energy. Both solar and wind mechanisms cause more “pollution” than cold fusion.

    • Roger Bird

      Perhaps Marcel is alluding to the tendency like what happens to people who win the lottery or suddenly become rich for whatever reason like professional athletes. Some people just don’t do well with that kind of money suddenly. Society is an individual writ large. I have mentioned in the past that there will be an increase in Kardashianism, the tendency to be shallow and money mad.

      The good news is that many resources may not even have to be exploited because the cost of plastic or carbon fiber substitutes will be less than mining for iron and making steel.

    • John Littlemist

      Good points, Marcel. It’ll be very interesting to see whether “cold fusion” will cause an economy bubble or can it be prevented. Most of us remember the millenium dotcom bubble:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

      • http://rossifocardifusion.com John De Herrera

        “The dot-com bubble”
        The dot-com bubble/Internet bubble was a sudden rise in Information Technology and communication that could, and still can benefit mankind tremendously. Some did benefit, some ignored it, and some speculated and lost. IT is STILL THERE and available for those who will use it. This web suite is an incredible place to learn about the new CF/LENR science and technology. Let’s work hard to spread the good news and apply this technology. I am shocked at how many people HATE computers and refuse to use them!
        Will cold fusion be used or will it be ignored/misused/suppressed? Only time will tell. jdh

  • georgehants

    When such an obvious local Scientific Dogma as the Earths inner Temperature is shown to have been so in error and wrongly taught to students for so long as Fact, one might think that Science would be very careful about it’s proclamations in future.
    I wonder if they will.
    ——
    From PhysOrg
    The Earth’s center is 1,000 degrees hotter than previously thought.
    http://phys.org/news/2013-04-earth-center-degrees-hotter-previously.html

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      A nice idea, but I think this is largely driven by human nature. Only the best scientists, and they are few in each generation, will get the message. Hopefully I am wrong.

    • GreenWin

      As within, so without. But AGW is still real.

      • Roger Bird

        See, GreenWin, you’re saying it without putting other posters down. If I counter what you say, I will not be putting you down.

      • Roger Bird

        The data that I find compelling is the graph of ocean temperatures vs. CO2 over the past 500,000 years coupled with plain common sense. Those graphs show the CO2 rising with the ocean temperatures. But it is impossible to see which comes first. And the AGW proponents say that it proves the rising CO2 causes global warming. But warming water releases CO2.

        And it is very difficult (the common sense part) to see how an increase of CO2 at 1 part per 2683 to 1 part per say 2599 is going to make much of a difference in light of the fact that water in all its forms is jillions of times more plentiful. And water is well known for it’s high specific heat.

        There is no question that a rise in CO2 would cause a rise in temperature, but just how much? There is nothing magical about CO2, except that it is a nutrient for plants and is necessary for human breathing. (CO2 stimulates breathing.) Perhaps CO2 is important because it has a high molecular weight compared with other gases. But it still doesn’t make up for the massively greater amount of water in the atmosphere and on the ground and in the oceans.

        And it seems to me that climate scientists are ignoring the increase plant growth that more CO2 would cause, thus sequestering the CO2. And the plants will thank us for it.

        • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

          Roger, you say:

          “But warming water releases CO2.”

          Finding this out was a Eureka moment for me. Most of my colleagues who blindly believe in the Anthropogenic warming meme do not know:

          1) That most of the scientific evidence suggest that geologically warming precedes CO2 increase, and
          2) That warming the oceans releases CO2.

          This is a damning combination for the warmistas. It doesn’t disprove their theory, but in one stroke comes close to it, or at least calls it under serious question.

          This is emblematic of why I have changed teams on this issue, even though I am still a liberal on most social and environmental issues. Fortunately, if LENR is as real as it seems to be, we may be able to worry much less in the short term about who is right on this question.

          • Roger Bird

            psi, think clearly now and perhaps you can recover from that liberal brainwashing (just kidding). Government by it’s very nature is coercive. It is an agency of force. Love cannot go along with force. Yes, government is necessary. But trying to express one’s love and caring via the government is very problematic ethically speaking. Government taxes us; they don’t ask nicely. They pass laws and regulations; they don’t make suggestions. If you want to be loving and caring, and I applaud that, I jump up and down cheering for that, doing it via government is sort of a contradiction.

            The ball is in your court. (:->)

            • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

              Lol. Watch out Rog, I have a mean backhand. : )Its good to agree on what we agree on. As I grow older I see the world in more nuanced, less black and white terms. You are right that government cannot do everything and should not try to. But I am not fond of the US political creed that readily forgets that the rotting bridges on which private industry delivers its products were built — necessarily, it seems to me — with taxpayer dollars. Imho government can and must invest in infrastructure, provide safety nets in the form of Social Security, unemployment, etc. That is not necessarily about “love and caring” — it is about practical realization of the things *the market* cannot do. The market can and does do wonderful things, such as grease the wheels of innovation through profit incentive and competition. Both functions are necessary to a healthy society, n’est-ce pas?

  • georgehants

    Now it has been clearly shown the World is not warming as advertised our Wonderful scientists are beginning to give “reasons” to “explain” how they are still right but the annoying Earth just will not conform to their “expert opinions”.
    Ha.
    ——
    Real Climate – Climate Science From Climate Scientists.
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/04/the-answer-is-blowing-in-the-wind-the-warming-went-into-the-deep-end/

    • GreenWin

      When uberfearmongers RC backs down, it’s time to fold.

  • georgehants

    How many people in the U.K. need to work to maintain a status-quo where everybody from age 16 has all their needs i.e. housing, food, clothing, etc + all fair luxuries provided as a right in exchange for a fair working life.
    Taking that as a basis how many people would then be unemployed, to on average reduce everybody’s working week and working life.
    Many could be transferred to medical and other needed and worthwhile tasks.
    Those more able and doing more would receive more in line with the psychological need of many to be rewarded for success.
    Finance, taxes, pensions etc. etc. become redundant as everything is based only on production and number of hours needed to work to maintain or improve the overall situation for all.
    People doing real jobs, nurses, dustmen etc. become important, people doing pointless work, finance, legal, insurance, etc. etc. are released from a pointless existence to enjoy life and move to work that is of benefit to all of society.

    • georgehants

      With this System the benefits LENR and every-other technological advance can be easily judged by the number of miners, power workers, etc. etc. that are released from wasting their lives working for nothing.

  • Miles

    Jumping the gun, ain’t we??? Humanitarian uses of LENR – of course but how about we bring the product to market first.

    • Jjaroslav

      Agree here…and they amount of effort that will be required to shift from a centralized energy model to a relatively decentralized version will require huge amounts of effort. Manufacturing the units, distribution , and installation will put millions to work in a shift of labor forces.
      The low cost of energy will be the driving humanitarian source.

    • GreenWin

      It’s already here… for those who are conscious of it.

      • roseland67

        Greenwin,

        It is NOT here, there is nothing here, YET.
        I believe what my senses tell me, what I can touch,
        see, hear, feel etc.
        and so far there is a grand total of ZERO of that.

        Sure, there are a lot of pictures, more articles, lots and lots
        of web sites with discussions of how it works,
        why it works etc, how it will change the entire planet, multiple conspiracy theorys, yadda yadda, but as of today
        there is nothing available for anyone, anywhere.

        I follow this everyday, religiously, since Jan. 5th, 2010, LENR Focardi/Rossi, abstract, and wait w/much anticipation the end result of low cost, waste free, LENR produced energy.

        There is no law that says engineering cannot precede science, this happens everyday, however, I refuse to believe what I am “told to believe”, simply because we want it to be so.

        In Chicago, I wait.

        • Roger Bird

          roseland67, I applaud your sanity and clarity of thought.

          • roseland67

            Roger Bird,

            Mrs. roseland67 would suggest otherwise,
            but thank you.

            • Roger Bird

              That was a beautiful bit of humor!!!

        • GreenWin

          “I follow this everyday, religiously…” Problem??

          • Roger Bird

            Yeah, I am having a lot of fun, until some people started putting me down for my ideas about climate science. And it seems to me that I have never seen these people/handles here before. Have we been invaded by verbal bullies?

            • GreenWin

              The simple answer IMO… Yes.

        • http://rossifocardifusion.com John De Herrera

          “It is NOT here, there is nothing here, YET.”
          Nothing? ‘To look IS NOT to see’ you must open your eyes first, then have the intelligence to evaluate what you saw. Many researchers are getting heat output from CF/LENR reactions, even our good friend Rossi, is claiming excess heat output. jdh

  • Kim

    I believe that you may find a Free Energy
    device among some of these pictures

    http://thepromiserevealed.com/secret-technology-photo-gallery/

    Respect
    Kim

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Rossi hints that “Dark Lightning” is involved in LENR.

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=802&cpage=4#comment-684238

  • Hyman Rosen

    Well, the OP at least.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Arthur Robey had an interesting post a while back. http://coldfusionnow.org/the-ramifications-of-free-energy/

    • Roger Bird

      The population will be plateauing off at about 10 billion because women are moving closer and closer to 2 children per. This is undoubtedly due to education. Food availability has nothing to do with it.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Education + prosperity…..hard to separate.

        • GreenWin

          Prosperity and live birth decline – evident.

        • Roger Bird

          Education and enjoying activities other than just procreational, like learning, go together. Education and developing self-control and good sense go together.

          • Omega Z

            If Availability of Cheap Plentiful food Equaled Population Growth, The U.S. would have Exceeded 1 Billion by know.

            Prosperity= Disney Land instead of bedroom playground.
            Going to Disney Land with 10 kids= 🙁

            • Iggy Dalrymple

              Compared with a century ago, food today is much more affordable, yet our birth rate is a fraction of the rate then.
              http://jerrykhachoyan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/AvgFoodPrices.png
              The numbers are %. All foods are a fraction of what they cost in 1913, inflation adjusted.

              • Roger Bird

                But, thanks to farming techniques, particularly artificial fertilizers and pesticides, the food is less nutritious.

  • Curbina

    Well, IMHO the problem is far more complex. LENR could even be a jumpstart of a paradigm shift, but I’m not holding my breath.

    Or, as I recently commented to a friend in FB: long story short, a system based on scarcity would not survive if abundance becomes the norm.

    • Kim

      Long Story Short

      Yes, the scarcity system could not survive.

      and that is the system we are in.

      So…

      When reality hits critical mass…

      Respect
      Kim

    • GreenWin

      Scarcity is a good word. Since it conjures the word scare. One need only peer through the modern telescope into 14 billion years of creation and see, there is scarcely any limit to matter, energy, or the dimensions they occupy. The only scarcity known to man is that imposed by those with self-esteem so low, it gives them succor.

      • Peter Roe

        And power.

        • georgehants

          Bring the Ego under some control and direct it to being rewarded only by a new worthwhile code, this has been known since the most ancient of times

  • Roger Bird

    The amount of good will and charity before LENR will be exactly the same as the amount of good will and charity after LENR.

    The only hope that I have is that charity can be focused, as Frank has indicated with desalinization and such projects.

    • http://rossifocardifusion.com John De Herrera

      “hope that I have is that charity can be focused”
      Focused and amplified Roger Bird. If you are of ‘good will’ and have the means to buy a large “Rossi E-Cat” for those who really need it and will use it… The ‘gift that keeps on giving’. If you feed a hungry family today… They will be hungry again tomorrow? jdh

  • Roger Bird

    Frank the Admin, you slipped a cog. You were talking about unemployment and other problems that people will face because of the introduction of LENR, then you jumped over to helping people switch to LENR even faster, which would cause even more disruption. I don’t see the connection between the problem that is most certainly going to be there and the solution that you propose.

    We already have a program for unemployment, and it is not all that great, but probably better than nothing.

    • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

      Hi Roger,

      I think more LENR for as many as possible is the long term solution to the disruption LENR may cause. So, for example, I think it would be better to provide an unemployed coal miner a domestic E-Cat that could meet his energy needs than just an unemployment check which doesn’t last forever. I think it would soften the blow of loss of a job quite a lot.

      • GreenWin

        Frank, let’s also keep in mind that CTL, gradual phase out of coal power plants, and the INCREASE in demand for jet fuel (expansion of aviation) will keep these resource workers busy.

        Utility companies have a clear choice – be in the energy business, or be in the nuke & fossil fuel-based energy business. The latter is the modern dinosaur awaiting extinction.

      • Roger Bird

        absolutely

      • atanguy

        Actually the lost of jobs may not be a bad idea if we build a society that won’t need it…

        • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

          I agree, Atanguy. The reason people need work is for economic survival. With basic needs taken care of (energy, food, shelter), most people would be happy not to have to go to a job. Many people do their best work when it for the love of work and not for pay.

          • Roger Bird

            Frank the admin guy, you just contradicted yourself again, sort of. You agreed with Atanguy that work should not be necessary. Then you said how nice work is when you are doing it for the love of the work.

            Who could possibly disagree with the last sentence. No one will actually disagree with it, but they may be too stoned or too lazy or too procrastinating or something else “too” to actually get a job. And work gives dignity and structure and other goodies besides money to one’s life. Just ask Goodwill, the charity organization. You work a lot. But most of that work is stuff that you love. Not everyone is like that. And LENR is not going to magically improve their characters.

            Fortunately there will be plenty of work for everyone.

            • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

              Hi Roger,

              I meant to say that LENR could get us to the point eventually that people may not need to have a job — meaning employment for pay — to meet the necessities of life. Then people would be free to do the work they love best without worry about whether they need to survive. Of course this could bring up a whole new set of problems if people use their free time in non-productive ways — but that’s another topic.

              • Roger Bird

                Who likes growing food, and will there be enough people who like growing food to supply the needs of the world? I am extremely fond of aloe vera; I need aloe vera for health purposes. Who wants to work the desiccated aloe vera fields? I suppose I could grow it myself in my monster greenhouse. But who is going to make my monster greenhouse; I am too old. Can I depend upon there being someone who likes building to build me a large greenhouse, to my specifications?

                • atanguy

                  Roger: You have to make a difference between job that you have to do for a living and work: Productivity activity that you do because you love it. I can see you in your big greenhouse being happy watching your aloe vera growing 😉

                • Roger Bird

                  Atanguy, they are not mutually exclusive. Plus, most happiness is up to the individual anyway. I used to work as a clerk in the US Post Office. I found ways to make it fun. I would see just how fast I could place the mail going to Australia. I was like lightning, and the other clerks hated me. (:->)

                • Omega Z

                  Roger Bird

                  Are you the Guy who routed my mail from across town by way of China.

              • georgehants

                Admin, I think I have noticed somebody on page trying very hard to make that point with very little success.
                May be interesting to have it as a Topic when quiet, to see reaction to people having a very much reduced working life by removing all unnecessary jobs including all of finance and profit.

                • Omega Z

                  George

                  The only thing that will reduce the hours to be worked will be the advent of Robots which by the way could be made possible by LENR power.

  • http://rossifocardifusion.com John De Herrera

    “it needs lots of folks too put their heads together and shine a light on the path, and direct the people in the right direction,”
    I for one will put a lot of effort to inform the public and officials about this important development which can transform metals and transform the economies of our world – for the better! jdh

  • buffalo

    there will definitly be some active/passive suppression of this technology if it worx as advertised but for how long i dont know,definitly not permanently.

  • Andre Blum

    I continue to be fascinated by the possibility of direct electric energy from the e-Cat.

    Andre Blum
    April 25th, 2013 at 11:05 AM
    Dear Mr Rossi,

    It has been almost four months since you answered to questions by Steven Karels about EMF (electromotive force) directly from the reactor core.

    1) Is EMF still looking possible, or have results been discouraging?
    2) Who is working on this? Is a separate team working on it (like previously you talked about a separate hot-Cat team)?
    3) When do you expect you can tell us more about it?
    4) The key question: Steven asked whether you thought it was possible to have EMF at decreased temperature, or even without heat production. At the time, your answer was that it was too soon to tell, but you hoped that it would. What can you tell us now?

    Many thanks and wishing you all the best
    Andre Blum

    ———-

    Andrea Rossi
    April 25th, 2013 at 12:48 PM
    Dear Andre Blum:
    1- still working on this promising issue
    2- yes
    3- when we will have certain results and explications of phenomenons we are observing
    4- nothing more: we are in a R&D phase, too premature.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Roger Bird

      It seems to my ignorant mind that the science required to get direct electrical generation from LENR would be beyond Rossi. Perhaps he hires boffins to do this sort of thing, like Edison did.

      Another thing that comes to mind, how is he able to keep all of this secret so well when the US government couldn’t even keep the atomic bomb a secret?

      • Omega Z

        Roger
        #2 yes, he has others studying this. Can’t recall the guys name. I think his 1st name was William.

        The Nuke was mostly kept secret from the Public. Germany & Japan were working on their own so only how far along we were was of question at that level.

        Of Course the Mushroom Cloud kind of caught the public attention. It was kind of hard to hide.

        • Roger Bird

          Actually, from what I know, the Trinity Test was so far out in the desert that no one figured it out. People would not have known the meaning of a mushroom cloud, and the light lasted for a short enough period of time at dawn that as far as I know, no one guessed. And the earthquake, earthquakes happen all the time.

  • daniel maris

    It depends how society responds.

    When I looked into this I found something like 15% of GDP in developed countries goes on energy. Even if the costs were to reduce by two-thirds, it wouldn’t eliminate the other costs.Which only goes to prove I think that the basis for cost in an economy is really labour – with land monopolists taking their share as well.

    LENR would produce significant efficiency gains which could be realised as a shorter working week. There would also be substantial savings on
    pollution and avoiding negative health effects.

    I think really dramatic cost reductions will only come with the creation of cheap robots. Once they are on the scene doing everything like truck driving, waiting in restaurants, refuse collection, supermarket deliveries, security work, textiles, cleaning and so on costs will come tumbling down.

    • GreenWin

      daniel, would a robot waiter deserve a tip?

      • Roger Bird

        Perhaps a pinch of lubricating oil.

        • NJT

          Virgin Olive Oil to be sure – Ha…

          • GreenWin

            While more costly, one supposes good olive oil might well be fair compensation for good service.

            However, I have rarely tipped my computer – even when it does my bidding with great alacrity.

            • daniel maris

              There are already robots that can play a violin. You might have one come up to your table and entertain you…

              I would advise anyone who is a sceptical robots/humanoids to go on You Tube and see just how amazingly advanced they are. It’s a bit like the early days of automobiles. Nearly all
              the various problems have been separately solved: facial expression, voice, mechanical movement, memory, hand grasping, direction finding etc. The question is really whether someone can bring all the elements into a really effective machine. Obviously, not yet. But the time may not be so far off. With wireless as well, the computer doesn’t have to be on board either.

              • Roger Bird

                ” the computer doesn’t have to be on board either” Just like with some real human beings.

              • Omega Z

                I believe it’s in ?Japan? where they have a restaurant that has like 4 Robot waiters that work during the dinner hours(for 2 or 3Hrs.)

                Draws a lot of customers because of it’s novelty, But the People behind it have Grandiose plans for the Future. You own a Restaurant- Few or No Employees.

                • GreenWin

                  Hmmm, if we ask the waitbot “Have you tasted the salmon?”

                  Could it honestly answer, Yes?

  • atanguy

    I see the main problem for the acceptance of LENR as a political one: The majority of technological advances these last 80 years has been accapared by a minority of people – The 1% – . Instead to be spread to the majority. The benefices of the scientific advancements,like for example less work hours to make something, resulted in fact by less workers, more unemployment and more money to the corporations. What will be the benefit of a new energy if the capital uses it to make more profits and the economy continue the same way it is now?

    • http://rossifocardifusion.com John De Herrera

      “main problem for LENR is a political one”
      It is amazing to me, with two years of development and announcement of CF/LENR, there are still lobbyists in Washington arguing for the coal industries, and more nuclear reactor plants. Are they NOT aware of this new development? The Hot Fusion and Fission scientists and suito skeptics have worked hard to derail this train since 1989. jdh

      • GreenWin

        Right. Worked hard, and failed.

  • sgt

    We are correct to be concerned if LENR becomes a reality. I saw a study sometime back about how many people would be unemployed if we had a automobile tire that would last the life of the car. A lot of people make their living in replacement tires. Stainless steel exhaust systems have shut down 2 of the 3 muffler shops in my small town over the years. It all comes down to how the companies and individuals spend the money they save. If they go out and buy we will be OK and existing and new businesses will grow thus hiring people – if they save it or pay off debt – not good.

    • mcloki

      People pay off debt and eventually that stops. Then people start buying again. Creating a strong and vibrant consumer class is what should be a priority. Making those consumables recyclable just increases the amount of jobs. Lowering the price of energy may reduce the need for 2 parent working families. Lower bills meaning that it would take a lot less revenue to maintain a household and the decision to have one adult stay home to raise children would become easier. Abundant energy raises more than a billion people out of poverty in a 10 year time frame. Ther will be some upheaval. Especially as bets placed on Oil and Nuclear start to become less lucrative. But even those people will move their money to more lucrative pastures.

    • http://rossifocardifusion.com John De Herrera

      “to be concerned about how many people would be unemployed”
      With abundant applications of CF/LENR, more companies can afford to hire workers and build many new products. jdh

    • Omega Z

      They can Manufacture tires today that will last the lifetime of a car.
      It’s all Formulated. Should Note that there are a couple companies developing new tires that will never go flat & will still be on the car when it is recycled. Car manufacturers are supporting it. For the Car Companies it’s a positive sales point as they make little on replacements. Bobs tire shop on the other hand wont fair well..

      Caterpillar has it’s specs for bearings designed to last an average of 25 years. According to the Metallurgist I worked with, It’s quite possible to make them last 50. Caterpillar rejected the Bearing Manufacturers Specs. They only want them as good or slightly better then the Competition(25 years). Not the lifetime of the equipment.

  • John Loraditch

    I do not believe that there will be any curtailing of the use of the INR/this is reminiscent of the luddites. One problem that I have been considering that could be very real problem is that this will provide things or people that they have never had before abundant energy will certainly slightly easier for a lot of people who are having a hard time. Historically every time a group of people who are downtrodden become better off it is always a cue fora revolution. The French revolution started very soon after the king decided to ease land restrictions. basically what happened wasyou give them an inch and they take a yard. The only thing that is certain it will be a very different world indeed. Let us hope to be one for the better.

    • GreenWin

      John,

      you are mistaken. And if providing the means for some 2-3Billion people to have clean water to drink, and food to keep from starving appears to be “giving an inch” – I am prepared to give them a foot.

      Try to grasp the idea that abundant energy and matter is a given in an abundant universe. If people’s basic needs are met, there is far less reason to foment violence, than when you are forced to watch your own children die of thirst or hunger.

      “The French Revolution, during the years 1789-1799, occurred when the monarchy was overthrown and radical restructing was forced upon the Roman Catholic Church.” ucc.edu

      Something like forcing orthodox science to get honest.

  • walker

    Hi all

    In Reply to the article by, I am Guessing, Frank Acland as admin of the site.

    Probably the best thing to do when considering a disruptive technology is to look at previous disruptions.

    Let us take as examples:
    The advent of the steam age.
    The change from whale oil to mineral oil.
    The shift from horses and hay to the motor car and petroleum.
    The move from the company mainframe to the desk top PC.
    The shift from centralised broadcast block media (Papers, TV, Radio Retail recordings) to the internet.

    As we can see change is normal. We have survived each of them and many others besides. And in all of those cases the change was for the general good.

    While the steam age brought about the biggest disruption, it also brought about the biggest boom and allowed the population of the world to increase massively, as did every other major innovation. By their nature innovations are massive increases in economic efficiency and thus productivity.

    That Whalers went out of business in the end it effected only a few, many of whom went in to the mineral oil business or the booming deep sea fishing the boom in cargo movement that mineral oil allowed by using oil fired boilers and later by introducing diesel marine motors.

    Another factor is speed of acceptance. From Thomas Newcomen’s first steam engine to pump water out of mines in 1712 to James Watt’s condensing steam engine in the 1760s on to Richard Trevithick’s modern high pressure steam engine in 1800 was almost 100 years.

    From the invention Karl Benz’s first Motorwagon in 1885 to the first mass produced Ford’s in 1927 was almost 50 years.

    The PC was invented in the early 1980s but only took another 15 years to become the popular windowing desktop.

    The world wide web began with Mosaic in 1995 but by 2000 we began shopping on line downloading our news, purchasing and receiving our entertainment.

    In each case these new innovative industries matured and brought increased prosperity and efficiency.

    Each of these are examples of accelerating disruptive change.

    Conservatism, I want to keep what I have got; is what stops change.
    Entrenched stake holders in form of: existing business, organisations of labour and invested capital, all seek to prevent change by enacting barriers to entry from competing products, processes and ideas.

    The barriers take many forms:
    Laws in the form of: licensing, rules and regulations, Patents, royalties, trade secrets, contracts etc.

    Economic price barriers causing high market entry costs. The cost of a Patent and defending it is often outside the pocket of the inventor. The cost of manufacture even more so. Retail chains will not consider you if you cannot provide sufficient products to cover the loss of the existing competitor, who would obviously pull their product from the retailer if a threat is perceived.

    Media, often beholden to its advertisers: A hatchet job can easily be arranged against an innovative product, using the old FUD tactics of Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. In fact an article like this can be pitched in such a way to achieve this. The “This will cause you to loose your job!” Scare tactic headline etc.

    But the reality is that conservatism is a dead economic idea in a world of increasing change.

    The other key factor to take note of is that the rate at which new radical disruptive change is created and its rate of completion and acceptance are both accelerating exponentially.

    Probably the best book to read on the subject of accelerating disruptive change is: Raymond Kurzweil’s The Singularity Is Near.

    So Now let us focus on LENR.

    Unlimited energy and the ability to transmute elements, I am going off the US Navy’s recently approved patent for the latter, I am sceptical of the practicality of this last as I am sure it results in massive energy output but may be the energy can be fed back into the process, wait and see fingers crossed.

    Add to the above the improvements in 3D printing and the successful deployment of large scale hydroponics.

    Let us now consider the key economic activities:
    primary – gathering material from the earth, Such as: Mining, drilling for oil, farming, fishing.
    These will be heavily affected.
    The ability to gather resources from space will cut heavily into the existin mineral and commodities industry but will create massive new markets for hi tech and future colonisation efforts.
    The greening of Africa’s deserts will release hundreds of millions from poverty, with massive new markets created more or less overnight.
    The advent of vertical shaft hydroponic farms, will move organic crops to the retail outlet, zeroing transport costs.
    The advent of cheap steam cleaning of soil to remove pests mean Monsanto will go bust, not a company to have shares in IMHO.

    secondary or manufacturing – turning materials into things to sell (eg working in a factory)
    The costs of production and transport are going to drop through the floor; previously non-viable technology will be come commonplace replacing many older technologies that only exist because the cost of competing technologies made them the only choice.

    tertiary or service – to provide a service for people (eg selling items, art, entertainment, sports)
    This will be the biggest boom area

    quaternary – hi tech research (eg scientists)
    Another big boom area, the arrival of mass education via the internet, eg Khan Academy et al, from emerging markets first of all from China and India followed by South America and Africa will fill the biggest problem area in research; the lack of sufficient educated people

    As you can see my view of the economic effect of LENR is optimistic, but I found it on all the previous examples of disruptive innovative change and that they are inevitable based on how they graph on a logarithmic curve.

    Kind Regards walker

    • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

      Thanks, Walker. This is very interesting and well researched.

    • mcloki

      Nicely said.

    • http://rossifocardifusion.com John De Herrera

      walker
      What an incredible amount of information on ‘Possible Disruption’ from the applications of cold fusion! I learned a lot from that walker, thanks. The “speed of acceptance,” should NOT be lengthy if the E-Cats are mass produced and available all over the world. The E-Cat is a SIMPLE device and lends itself to mass production. With the advantages of safe, abundant, and low cost heat energy and electricity, individuals and corporations will be eager to buy and install them. jdh

      speed of acceptance

      • atanguy

        To Walker
        Let imagine that Rossi, or another, sells a xMW plant to an energy company in the US.

        Because replacing coal/gas/oil by LENR the company’s energy cost is going to decrease dramatically – No extraction cost no refinery cost,no transportation cost – Let’s be pessimistic, their cost is going to decrease 10 times. Do you think that will be reflected in the KW sold to their end user by 10 times? answer is maybe 2 times depending on the competition. What will be really a breakthrough in the society would be an individual or a local production of energy that, hopefully, will be possible depending on the LENR technology. In this case progress will be: Decentralized energy and that my friend will be where the fight against LENR will start.

        • GreenWin

          That fight’s already started. And as much lost. There is little to prevent non-aligned countries like China, India, from manufacturing residential CHP appliances – with or without license or “safety” certification. If a guy can buy a water heater that provides 3-6kW electric, plus hot water and heat – he will.

          Distributed Energy Resources DER is the term coined by the Edison Electric Inst in warning utilities they may all go BK if they don’t get with the new fire program (though they pretend they’re talking about solar panels.)

          Last week we saw Lord Stern of London School Economics warn the financial sector of the same inevitable disruption ($6T in stranded oil assets.)

    • Omega Z

      That Whalers went out of business.
      They would have anyway as many types of whales are near extinct now & would be had things not shifted.

      The LENR shift will happen for the same reason of sorts. Demand will exceed supply & Financially it is at it’s peek as in not economically sustainable.

      • GreenWin

        Z… in fact the Hartford CT Whalers are a vibrant hockey team now. Far removed from the old days off Nantucket. Compare to the Edmonton Oilers, another hockey team, destined to be a last remnant of the black gold glory days.

        • Omega Z

          Acually GW, I think Oil, Gas, & Coal will be around and more in demand then many believe. Tho less then today’s demand.

          Oil as an Example will be used at about 30 Million barrels a day instead of 90 Million & climbing.
          As Demand for fuel declines, demand for all the additional products will increase probably by 4 fold. That additional demand will be caused by the approximately 75% of the World who presently don’t have certain products. World prosperity will change this.

          Aside from the Overall reduction in Oil demand, LENR will make the Oil still required cheaper to obtain & Process So it’s still a Plus.

          Oil, Coal, & NG are all heavily used in Metals (among other things)in ways that LENR will never replace. Without them, you would have no Steel for E-cats.

          We have a Bearing manufacturer where I live & it uses about 500K cubic foot of NG per hour 24/7 365. LENR incorporated into the process May reduce that by 10% to 20%.

          The Vast majority of this Gas is for the layering & carbon content Plus maintaining structural Integrity of the Steel under 2000′ temps. You can think of a bearing as an Onion with Many layers with some controlled blending of some layers & Not others. Portions of which act like a sponge as to expansion/compression. Many people have trouble wrapping their heads around steel being like a sponge.

          China has shown off a stealth fighter. Probably more propaganda then Fact as to functionality. Besides- The Engines for it come from Russia.

          We talk a lot about, You can’t keep secrets in today’s World. I always have to beg to differ. China buys it’s High performance Jet Engines from Russia. They don’t know how to build them yet & have been working on it for several decades. Not even by reverse engineering. They recently started a new 20 year plan to obtain this technology. Seems Russia won’t sell them the State of the Art- State of the Art Engines. Eventually they will probably just steal the Knowledge.

          I Believe many of us posting here take much for granted. Being a U.S. citizen, I’ve always been of the impression that if I have the Financial means & Mental capabilities that there is very little knowledge that I have restricted access to. Things may be more complex then we know. Because of who & where we live, we may never experience certain restrictions & therefore are unaware of them. We take things for granted.

          • GreenWin

            Z… I agree with your entire post. Interesting the volume of NG used in steel. As for the last para… check this new documentary on energy out: http://www.sirius.neverendinglight.com/

      • Barry

        Now the scrimshanders are going out of business.

  • Peter Roe

    In view of the decisions taken by politicians to date in connection with energy policy, and the ease with which they often appear to be captured by various lobby interests, I am not hopeful of a smooth transition. Grid power/CHP is pretty much a given (both Rossi-style and GEC-type high level waste burning fission reactors), as is military use, and more local power generation looks like a natural development, but beyond that I think further disemination of the tech will be fought tooth and nail.

    As I’ve said many times before, govts and energy cartels simply can’t allow the introduction of domestic/personal devices until an unbreakable method of extracting revenues/taxes can be put in place. I don’t think we can expect much help from the environmental organisations either. They mostly seem to have their own agendas that depend on forced energy scarcity, and they would be largely stripped of control (and even their reason for existing in some cases) by a non-polluting energy source.

    This mindset can be seen in action in the many cancer charities who steadfastly refuse to look at any possible cancer remedies other than surgery, chemicals and radiation, and who by and large take no part at all in advising on life strategies that will minimise the risk of cancer in the first place.

    Humans are what they are. It’s going to be a long and difficult process even after CF grid power is well on the way to becoming the norm.

    • GreenWin

      Peter, you raise an interesting point about institutions, causes, organizations that remain solvent due to their refusal to acknowledge new information and science. This is a curious mindset that disavows remarkable progress in the interest of market-based status quo.

      I think we will soon develop an evolved market that (as it was always meant) allows and reacts to the newest, most beneficial products and service. I.e. knowledge monopolies, much like monarchies – will have no place in the evolved world.

      • Peter Roe

        GW

        I agree that change must come, I just take a rather more pessimistic view of timespans than you, I think. Profound changes in society result either from chaos produced by wars or other disasters, followed by rebuilding and a new order, or they tend to be slow – perhaps even taking place over generations. Changes happen faster in our interconnected world, but there are always powerful forces that will try to maintain the status quo, and frequently succeed in holding back the waters during the lifetimes of their proponents.

        Another great economic crash seems to be on its way in the ‘West’, and I don’t think that recognition of the new power source will come in time to affect this, but hopefully its effects will not be so profound that widespread chaos results. That leaves the slow kind of change as one group of ‘movers and shakers’ is replaced by another, who find ways to accommodate and profit from the new thing, whether this is agriculture, use of metals, steam power, electricity and radio, IC cars or information technology.

        I believe that old farts like myself will probably see widespread use of semi-centralised CF grid power and possibly cartel-controlled desalination and other large-scale applications, but probably not small scale or private use of cold fusion. Our younger contributors will almost certainly see a lot more in their lifetimes. The alternative – widespread social collapse followed by the rise of a ‘new order’ – is something I hope not to see at all.

        • GreenWin

          Points taken. Though the internet and personal computer before it both dominated the world in less than a decade. So, I see the overall adoption of technology accelerating.

          And please, as a fully subscribed member of the old fart club, I prefer the title “Senior” fart.

    • Omega Z

      Peter

      Politicians are no smarter on average then the General Population. They get their advice from the Scientific Experts- Usually those in Charge like Parks. Who as we know are concerned about their pet projects & funding.
      They are Few, But they have the ear of the politicians & that’s where most of the resistance comes from.

      Those we speak of- TPTB who have good foresight will jump on the LENR bandwagon as soon as it’s proven beyond doubt.

      It’s simple Math, Or Should I say Money.
      World GDP 60 Trillion. Consider where the world is today, There’s a strong possibility to increase the World GDP about 400% in the next 40 to 50 years with LENR. This can never happen with limited Fossil fuels.

      Investors have had an average return on investments of 9.2% over the last 80 or so years.

      So the Question is??? Do you want a 9.2% return off of a 60 trillion dollar Economy or 9.2% return off of a 240 Trillion dollar Economy.

      Roll out at present will be slow.
      Rossi indicates his partner could soon gear up to supply 1 Gigi-watt per Year when the time comes. China is adding that Per Week.

      So all the talk of China supplying Cheap systems for everyone else is probably pie in the sky. They’ll probably sell the Rest of us the 2nd’s. The ones with contaminates. 🙁

      At most they’ll supply enough to cover the cost of their own as most 3rd world countries would do for the foreseeable future. We’ll have to build our own.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    For my humanitarian gesture, I donate this video to all skeptics:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=42sXJap9aHo

    • Andre Blum

      Thanks! That was worth watching!
      Many thanks also to the person who did the humanitarian gesture of subtitling. I wouldn’t have understood a word otherwise.

    • GreenWin

      Iggy, that’s the fringe of wavewatching! Tasty!

    • Barry
    • http://rossifocardifusion.com John De Herrera

      “Iggy Dalrymple”
      Thank you so much for the Eating Crow video. Let’s make it available to skeptics, Skeptics, suto Skeptics, patho Skeptics, and Hot Fusion Physicists – after Rossi delivers on his ‘Third Party Report’ and installs a ‘for all to see’ HotCat!

  • mcloki

    Humanitarian and Philanthropic pursuits will take care of themselves. All that needs to be made available is a working product that is continually being refined and updated.

  • clovis

    hi frank,
    aha ha, first commented, lol.
    Very good topic , Frank which needs lots of work to lay down a trail, that is being blazed to the further. it needs lots of folks too put their heads together and shine a light on the path, and direct the people in the right direction, on this new frontier.