Priorities for the E-Cat

Here’s an interesting post from Andrea Rossi in response to a question on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about what his top priority will be after the delivery of his first unit on April 30th.

Commercial priority: we are developing with our USA Partner a robotized line for the reactors even for the industrial plants. We will have also to continue to manufacture plants for heat production. Technological priority is electric power production.

It’s been a while since we heard about the ‘robotized line’ from Rossi – he mentioned it quite a lot when he was talking about the production of domestic units, until that idea was put on ice (certification issues, according to Rossi). But I would expect that the technology needed to build the reactors in the industrial units will be the same as for the domestic ones, and so the work done to date on robotization would likely not have been wasted. For the E-Cat to have the impact on the world as I think Rossi intends, mass production is going to be essential, and robotization, if done well, should help with that.

I have to say that if Andrea Rossi can not only invent a revolutionary product, but also bring it all the way to mass production – it will be something truly remarkable. It is one thing to make a breakthrough in a laboratory setting; but quite another to take it from that point all the way into the marketplace. Of course we are not there yet – but from what I see, the signs still look good.

  • georgehants

    ScienceBlog.com
    Solar Cell Turns 1 Photon Into 2 Electrons
    Throughout decades of research on solar cells, one formula has been considered an absolute limit to the efficiency of such devices in converting sunlight into electricity: Called the Shockley-Queisser efficiency limit, it posits that the ultimate conversion efficiency can never exceed 34 percent for a single optimized semiconductor junction.
    Now, researchers at MIT have shown that there is a way to blow past that limit as easily as today’s jet fighters zoom through the sound barrier — which was also once seen as an ultimate limit.
    http://scienceblog.com/62472/solar-cell-turns-1-photon-into-2-electrons/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogrssfeed+%28ScienceBlog.com%29

    • georgehants

      Another piece of closed-minded scientific Dogma bites the dust.
      Shame MIT had such closed-minds 24 years ago concerning Cold Fusion.
      But remember there are no such things as UFO’s.

    • Barry

      Thanks George, This site sure is an education. The title is a little misleading, perhaps it should read “One photon knocks two electrons loose”.

  • georgehants

    Wladimir Guglinski
    April 18th, 2013 at 9:10 PM
    Andrea Rossi wrote in April 18th, 2013 at 2:03 PM
    Dear Bernie Koppenhofer:
    We are resolving the problems, now we have found a very high stability at temperatures enough high to have good efficiencies. We got much help from the Readers of this blog who sent comments on this issue, we learnt many issues that we used.
    I am really indebted with the enthusiasm of our Readers and the strong help I got from them.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    ——-
    To the readers of Rossi’s JNP:
    It’s interesting to call attention that such procedure used by Andrea Rossi (by improving his invention with the contribution of readers) had never happened in the History of Science and Technology.
    Beyond his contribution to Science and Technology with the invention of the e-Cat, he had also introduced a new procedure of improving his invetion never used before.
    regards
    wlad
    —–
    Andrea Rossi
    April 19th, 2013 at 2:08 AM
    Dear Wladimir Guglinski:
    Thank you for your kind comment: actually it is true that Internet has extended infinitely the potential of a brain and we are using only a small fraction of this potential.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Lukedc

      For as smart as Wlad is, it’s called crowdsourcing. Welcome to the 21st century.

      • georgehants

        Yes but the point is that it is being used by Mr. Rossi etc and as pointed out the Internet is changing the World.
        Maybe main-line science could learn something about how to handle Cold Fusion.

  • Peter E
    • Lukedc

      Swedish isn’t my forte. But i would say that they are definitely investigating Rossi as a viable solution.

    • artefact

      BTW: Elforsk is a Swedish industry- and state-owned research company for the electricity industry

      • maghed

        A quick translation of the swedish text (I don’t take any responsibilities for any inaccuracies):

        Cold Fusion has ever since Fleichman and Pons alleged Palladium fusion back in 1989 been under debate. A number of groups have since then been able to show heat production in a number of experiments that could be caused by fusion. The inventor of the E-Cat is the engineer Andrea Rossi. The thing about this invention is that it produces enough heat for actual practical usage, through an unknown process (so far).
        At different demonstrations the unit has shown an effect of 10kW. The heat production is many times bigger than what is achieved with conventional cumbustionreactions. Known components in the reaction nickel (powder) and hydrogen gas.

        Project objectives:
        • Support scientifically performed investigations that analyses if the E-Cat actually produces the amount of heat shown in the demonstrations.
        • Support the efforts to establish what process causes this heat production and how different variations of parameters could affect this and also to analyze any risks or other negative effects.
        • Analyze the importance of the process (if it works) in relations to future power and heat production.

        Project Activities:
        Measurements of heat efficiency and heat production are performed and if the results are of “importance” an analysis of the underlying process is initiated. Based on the results of these and if it is feasible to go further a cooperation with energy experts will be initiated to perform studies of future concepts for power and heat production and to analyze how this E-Cat could affect future power and heat productions.

        • artefact

          🙂 and thanks.

          • Barry

            +1

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          thanks.

  • pg

    +4

    • Peter Roe

      Yes it’s good – but 4! – Wow!

      • timycelyn

        Remember that hand gesture Jasper Carrot used to do Peter, a semi closed fist against his forehead, then swept forward and downward in a 90 degree arc?

        As far as our counting genius is concerned, says it all, really…

    • georgehants

      Hot fusion + 60 years.

  • Jim

    Another intersection of University of Missouri, Office of Naval Research, and High Energy Physics:

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/153630-open-air-plasma-device-could-revolutionize-energy-generation-us-navys-weaponry

    (Robert Heinlein was also Missouri, Navy and high energy…an Astounding Story?)

    • Peter Roe

      Artificial ball lightning no less. I saw the real thing once, uncomfortably close up, when lightning struck a power line at a campsite I was staying at.

  • Eric
    • Invy

      The performance gains are due to increased surface area… interestingly they rely on nickel for the bulk of the materials in the battery, so maybe an unexpected LENR reaction will occur and surprise its inventors.

    • GreenWin

      Nothing but vastly increased surface area in both anode and cathode due to materials composition indicates nuclear reactions. But the use of a nickel foam layered with NiSn on glass substrate anode sounds a bit like some LENR catalyst materials.

      • Barry

        Hmm, seems surface area is key to future energy. If it is a LENR catalyst does than mean a nuclear reaction is taking place on the fringe of a chemical reaction?

        Seems big oil is doomed one way or another.

  • GreenWin

    Priorities for e-cat would be just as Rossi’s team suggest, electrical generation from steam driven turbines. Siemens AG has developed some very small turbines used in their home-based CHP systems; and there are many turbine makers whose products would match well with the 1MW hot-cat.

    Returning briefly to the rather poignant news of USPTO issuing a cold fusion patent to the U.S. Navy raises two points:

    1) the patent confirms USPTO acknowledgment of LENR being “nuclear”

    2) the patent reaffirms the long history of Navy’s development of cold fusion / LENR (20 years now)

    Here is an excerpt from U.S. Navy’s Technical Report 1862, issued ten years ago in 2002:

    “We do not know if Cold Fusion will be the answer to future energy needs, but we do know the existence of Cold Fusion phenomenon through repeated observations by scientists throughout the world. It is time that this phenomenon be investigated so that we can reap whatever benefits accrue from additional scientific understanding. It is time for government funding organizations to invest in this research.”

    Dr. Frank E. Gordon, Head
    Navigation and Applied Sciences Department
    Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center, San Diego – SPAWAR

    http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue44/navy.html

    • georgehants

      If they wrote the report in 1862 why was it not reported until 2002. Ha.
      Cold fusion has been around longer than we thought.
      Somebody should check Newton’s old alchemy experiments, probably find it recorded there.

      • GreenWin

        Indeed. Yet master Newton clutched to the secret:

        “Because the way by the Mercurial principle may be impregnated has been thought fit to be concealed by others that have know it,” Newton wrote,

        “and therefore may possibly be an inlet to something more noble that is not to be communicated without immense damage to the world if there be any verity in [the warning of the] Hermetic writers. There are other things besides the transmutation of metals which none but they understand.” B.J.T. Dobbs in “The Foundations of Newton’s Alchemy” (Cambridge University Press, 1984)

        “Noble,” Sir Isaac? As in the empowerment of mankind?

    • Patrik

      Where can I find information about the Siemens home-based CHP (or micro CHP)? I work with micro cogeneration and have never heard anything about Siemens activities in this area. I have a pretty good overview of the European development and know that a German micro CHP unit with a steam turbine never reached beyond field tests.

  • georgehants

    Bernie Koppenhofer
    April 18th, 2013 at 12:07 PM
    Dr. Rossi: Without revealing any IP, could you tell us the main problems you are facing with power production? Maybe friends on this site can help? Thanks.
    —–
    Andrea Rossi
    April 18th, 2013 at 2:03 PM
    Dear Bernie Koppenhofer:
    We are resolving the problems, now we have found a very high stability at temperatures enough high to have good efficiencies. We got much help from the Readers of this blog who sent comments on this issue, we learnt many issues that we used.
    I am really indebted with the enthusiasm of our Readers and the strong help I got from them.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Jimr

      Now i’m really concerned. If he and the company he is working with are learning from the readers of this blog who ( sent comments and learnt from the readers). I hope the engineers at his company are way ahead of us with the knowledge of his product.

      • Omega Z

        Jimr

        Hopefully your being sarcastic.

        80% of innovation in the world comes from the general population. Regardless of Education. It is in fact the drive that makes crowd sourcing so effective. The Fact that Rossi seems to understand this is actually very Encouraging.

        • NJT

          +1 with a big YES!

  • SolarSurfer

    The question of how long it takes to build a factory has come up below somewhere. As always, it depends. For a capacity of millions of e-cats or at least modules per year, you’d need more than a little peripheral infrastructure and organization in addition to the factory itself and there are literally millions of small but important things which all have to work on time to get the whole thing going. For my company (we make cars – which is old hat but overall certainly far more complex) it takes somewhere between three and six years from the idea to start of production. When we’re in a hurry and the local conditions are perfect and all obstacles get quickly taken care of by local authorities, we can do it in less than two years (did that in China). Our first US plant took almost five years from first talks to rolling out a working car – much of which was spent on fixing problems encountered when establishing the supply chains. How long it would take Rossi depends a lot on where it would happen and who he selects as a partner for this project. For most companies, building up a working production line is something either happening gradually over decades as they grow and scale up or is something they do habitually on a global scale and therefore know the pitfalls. For Rossi it would be from nothing to full scale in one jump, so he’ll need a very experienced and locally well connected partner. Since the product itself would be extremely simple (he built working prototypes more or less by himself – you couldn’t do that with a car), such a partner should get the job done in one to maybe two years.

    In the past, Rossi often spoke of his “factories” in the US – but of course we have no idea what he means when he uses that word.

    • Omega Z

      SolarSurfer

      Agreed on Rossi’s use of words.
      The core of his technology probably doesn’t require that much in manufacturing. The Additional structures would be more problematic, because it will probably be a trial & error R&D process for a while as Pertaining to Boilers & such being matched up.

      Probably involves automating a portion then finish manually & as glitches are fixed increasing the automation additional steps. As for robotic assembly, This process has been greatly improved over the years & advancing very fast today. Most of it is just a matter of mixing & matching components off the shelf & only occasionally special designing components.

      Depending on who Rossi’s partner is, they could have an automated plant up & running small scale daily production in 6 to 12 months(If it’s merged with an existing facility). I consider this most likely at this point.

      Additional plants with mass production could take 2 to 3 years, but that’s more to do with bureaucracy. And it will require a huge number of plants. Just meeting New Energy demands in China alone would require 300K 10Kw cores a week. I use China as an example because I’m already aware of their numbers. These numbers don’t include the rest of the world or replacing the old systems.

      From Rossi’s posts- They have 2 primary criteria on customers at this time.
      1. IP protection. Trusting the customer.
      2. Ease of access. Important as they want to get to you as soon as a problem crops up. It’s new tech & they fully expect glitches. Customer happiness is Paramount at this time. Bad publicity for dependability problems to be avoided. Once a product develops a bad reputation, it can take years to repair no matter how dependable new generations are. For a new product this is especially true.

      Aside from what I’ve posted, I believe most people here following this story would be perfectly content to see just 1 delivered & confirmed working as proposed. Because then it truly is just a matter of time & patients can be tempered.

      • NJT

        OmegaZ, you are very observant and knowledgable. I enjoy your logical posts – thanks…

      • Peter Roe

        Rather than designing turbines, generators etc. to match the new power source it might make more sense initially to try to match hot cat boiler designs to existing models. Assuming that the partner is already manufacturing industrial power plant, the automated production line could probably be very basic.

        Rather than solarsurfer’s car production lines, the hot cat cores are probably no more complex than say a catalytic exhaust unit, and are probably radially symmetrical – making contruction about as basic as it gets. Once a stock of cores with threaded or flanged connections is available, assembling these into boiler units would probably be possible with existing semi-automated facilities, at least until demand really takes off.

        • Omega Z

          Agreed Peter

          I assume that Rossi is modeling the H-Cat plus boiler to fit an existing Turbine at present just for proof of concept.

          Optimizing the Combo will come later.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    I suppose that recycled statements are all a part of the conservation movement.

    • Roger Bird

      Recycled topics are actually part of the patience movement, waiting for EXTREMELY MOMENTOUS things to happen.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    This response from Rossi tells me he is taking the advise of outside consultants, he just might pull off the difficult transitions from invention to production to marketing.

    Andrea Rossi
    April 18th, 2013 at 7:47 AM
    Dear Steven N. Karels:
    Selectively approaching targeted Customers, at least for the first stage of marketing, which is called the “Pioneers stage”.
    This choice for 2 main reasons:
    1- consolidate the technology in an easy to assist environment
    2- protect the I.P. during the first stage of expansion
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • http://www.buildecat.com LCD

      That’s actually not a bad strategy, #2 that is. I’d always thought that the first sale would open you up to competitors stealing but if you pick and choose your customers, you have a shot at getting more revenue before that first “steal” happens.

      Or maybe it’s all made up. Hard to tell with this guy.

      • Omega Z

        LCD
        It’s actually an Excellent Strategy.
        It will be a slow roll out.
        Protecting IP & Protecting the reputation of a new technology.
        “1- consolidate the technology in an easy to assist environment”
        Obviously there will be glitches to work out. Quick access/location is very important. Customer support.

        Aside from Wind & Solar cost disadvantage, It has a dependability issues that even if overcome will take years to repair this reputation.

        Yes the Hot Cat works, Yes it’s Cheap, but I can’t count on it. Bring back my Oil burner. Dependability is everything for business, Then Cost, Then if it’s clean Great, a bonus…

  • robyn wyrick

    OT —– Slow news day on CF, so I thought I’d post (summarize) an interesting exchange I had with a friend on Facebook.

    A few days ago I saw the story about bio-engineered kidneys being implanted into rats. The kidneys didn’t work to full capacity, but were otherwise a huge step forward, and a big success.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23382-kidney-breakthrough-complete-labgrown-organ-works-in-rats.html

    My friends response was : “Ahhhh, the world is saved by 3D printing, provided the patient has the $$.”

    Which I thought was pretty pessimistic. So I wrote, “if the history of advanced technologies is any guide, the price will drop rapidly like it did with Lasik eye surgery.”

    He replied: “How many Lasik patients would like to have that procedure redone?”

    The conversation continued on like this, with my optimism being confronted at every turn by his argument that, essentially, nothing will ever improve.

    I thought this really informed an important conundrum we are in: not only do we have a significant meme in the world that things will always be cra.ppy, but there are actually people who are actively working to keep things cra.ppy.

    Anyone who has looked at the story of Cold Fusion is well aware of what I’m talking about.

    And in the U.S., universal firearms background checks just failed in the Senate – in the face of 90% popular support. The Boston Marathon was bombed. And we’re still “winding down” from (at least) two wars, with a report that the U.S. engaged in tort.ure – and no one is going to be prosecuted.

    And the list goes on. The hopeless have ample reason for their opinion.

    But I think unacknowledged success plays right into the hands of those who would thwart progress. We have to keep the word out: progress is being made.

    There is every reason to believe that the 80,000 people waiting on a kidney donation have new reason for hope. And there is every reason to believe that the billions of people waiting on the dawning of new energy paradigm also have reason for hope.

    Cheers

    • georgehants

      robyn, thanks to the Internet at least all those things you say can be put into the open and it then becomes up to each of us what we do about it.
      If we let the authorities play us as fools then we deserve to be treated that way.

    • Charles

      He replied: “How many Lasik patients would like to have that procedure redone?”

      Robyn, next time your pessimistic friend says that retort: “How man Lasik patients would like that procedure ‘undone’?”

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      “The kidneys didn’t work to full capacity.” So the rats died?

      Many are pessimists, many are optimists. CF followers are a tiny minority compared to both.

      “Ahhhh, the world is saved by 3D printing”. To me, “to save” is a strong expression which I feel gets overused nowadays. I hope something would save us from that.

    • Roger Bird

      Our attitude, character, and emotions will determine whether we focus on the negative or on the positive. Knowing this, I prefer to focus on the positive. (:->) By doing this as an act of the will, my attitude, character, and emotions improve.

    • kasom

      Sorry, very OT:

      Is a “friend on facebook” a “cyberfriend”? Has it anything in common with what we called a friend before facebook?

      Do we need new words to give the old words an adeqate sense?

    • Leo Kaas

      Robyn, Your friend reminds me of a joke former President Ronald Reagan liked to tell.

      “The joke concerns twin boys of five or six. Worried that the boys had developed extreme personalities – one was a total pessimist, the other a total optimist – their parents took them to a psychiatrist.”

      “First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with brand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst into tears. ‘What’s the matter?’ the psychiatrist asked, baffled. ‘Don’t you want to play with any of the toys?’ ‘Yes,’ the little boy bawled, ‘but if I did I’d only break them.'”

      “Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his out look, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with horse manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitted just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from his brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his bare hands. ‘What do you think you’re doing?’ the psychiatrist asked, just as baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. ‘With all this manure,’ the little boy replied, beaming, ‘there must be a pony in here somewhere!'”

      Robyn, Keep looking for the pony, I’m looking for the pony too.
      Leo Kaas

    • Roger Bird

      My children are, with regard to character, personality, and sweetness, so superior to me when I was their age that I would not be part of their friendship network. I would be rejected by them as being too loud, angry, lustful, self-centered, disloyal, unreliable, bullying, etc. etc. etc. The world is becoming a better place. When I was younger than 17 in 1962, there was no talk about civil rights. Now we have women’s rights, gay rights, animal rights, Hispanic rights, even plant rights. Yes, the world is becoming a better place. We are much more likely to appreciate the intrinsic worth of everyone.

      • GreenWin

        Plant rights Roger? Are the golden wattles marching down under? 🙂

        • Roger Bird

          Believe it or not, in Switzerland some committee or other were seriously talking about plant rights.

          • Omega Z

            Believe it or not Roger

            Couple decades ago, a Scientist hooked up sensors to a plant, then converted the signal to audio.

            Cutting or damaging the plant sounded like a women screaming. The process was also note on severed stems with a response registered from the original plant. As if it were still connected.

            I recently saw where this is being studied again or still.

            My 1st thought was Oh No, here we go. We can’t eat meat. We can’t eat plants. Look out Stomach- Here come Soylent Green. 🙁

            • GreenWin

              But, Soylant Green is…

              • Omega Z

                Uhh

                You know there is such a thing as to much- Green…

                But, I make exceptions for your posts… 🙂

    • Omega Z

      robyn wyrick

      A Correction. This was a Grown kidney, Not 3D printed although that is being researched also.

      In this case they take a kidney & remove all genetic material leaving a (?Calogen?) like mesh & inject cells to grow.

      As people who read my posts know, I Believe in IP, But, I wish there was a way these people could collaborate while protecting the IP.
      I see situations where 2 people have 2 different halves of the answer but stall. Of course there’s also the argument that 2 people working separately, of which 1 may come up with a totally new approach. ACH?%#

      • Ryan

        Thanks for pointing that out. I read her post and was going to say something similar, having read some articles on it. I think the biggest obstacle for 3D printing of organs at the moment is simply getting the proper layout for bloodvessels and capillaries to support solid structure organs like the pancreas, liver, and kidneys. It seems they’ve come quite a ways towards accurately depositing cells where they want them via this process but this still remains a stumbling block. Apparently however they are having great success with hollow biological structures such as the trachea or colon.

        • Omega Z

          Ryan

          IMHO, A Combination of printing & growing will probably evolve. There’s about half a dozen things being Used for people today such as growing & printing arteries & skin but, it’s not mainstream as of yet.

          Most of the research involves Mice & Rats. Reduced aging by 75%, Growing organs, new limbs. It’s a great time to be a mouse or rat. Sucks to be Human. I’ve determined at the present pace, I’ll miss the boat by about 40 years.

  • Torbjörn

    Is there anyone who want to translate this?

    Energikatalysatorn – (Rossi, E‐cat) – fördjupad granskning

    Mål

    Ända sedan Fleichman och Pons påstådda fusion i palladium 1989 har kall fusion varit omdebatterat. Ett flertal grupper har sedan dess kunnat visa på värmeproduktion i olika experiment som kan tyda på fusion.

    Uppfinnaren till energikatalysatorn, ”E-Cat”,
    är ingenjören Andrea Rossi. Det nya med uppfinningen är att den producerar tillräckligt med värme för praktiskt användbara ändamål, genom en hittills oförklarad process.

    Vid olika demonstrationer har enheter visats med effekten 10 kW. Värmeproduktionen är flerfaldigt större än vad som kan åstadkommas med konventionella förbränningsreaktioner. De kända komponenter som ingår är nickel i pulverfrom samt vätgas.

    Målet med Elforsks projekt är att:

    • Stödja vetenskapligt genomförda undersökningar som analyserar om
    energikatalysatorn E-Cat avger den värmeeffekt som har uppgivits i olika
    demonstrationer

    • Stödja försök att fastställa vilken process som kan orsaka värmeproduktionen
    och hur variation av olika parametrar kan inverka samt analysera eventuella
    risker eller andra negativa effekter

    • Analysera betydelsen av processen (om den fungerar) för framtida el- och värmeproduktion

    Aktiviteter

    Mätningar av värmeeffekten/värmeproduktionen genomförs och om resultaten är ”anmärkningsvärda” inleds analyser avseende bakomliggande processer. Baserat på resultaten från dessa arbeten inleds – om det finns skäl att gå vidare – i samverkan med olika energiexperter studier av framtida koncept för el- och värmeproduktion samt analyser avseende vilken betydelse energikatalysatorn kan få för den framtida
    energiproduktionen.

    http://www.elforsk.se/Global/Om%20Elforsk/Filer/ELFORSKs%20FoU-plan%202013%20webb.pdf
    (Page 51)

    http://www.elforsk.se/In-English1/

    • Veblin

      Google Translate

      Energy Catalyst – (Rossi, E-cat) – Depth Review
      Finish
      Ever since Fleichman and Pons claimed fusion in palladium 1989, cold fusion has been debated. Several groups have since been able to demonstrate the production of heat in different experiments may indicate fusion.

      The inventor of the energy catalyzer, “E-Cat”
      is engineer Andrea Rossi. The novelty of the invention is that it produces enough heat for practical purposes, by an as yet unexplained process.

      At various demonstrations units shown with 10 kW of power. Heat production is several times larger than what can be achieved with conventional combustion reactions. The known components are nickel powder and hydrogen gas from.

      The goal of Elforsks project are to:

      • Supporting scientific surveys that analyze the
      energy catalyst E-Cat delivers the heating effect has been reported in various
      demonstrations

      • Support efforts to determine the process that can cause heat
      and the variation of different parameters can influence and analyze possible
      risks or other adverse effects

      • Analyze the importance of the process (if it works) for future electricity and heat

      Activities

      Measurements of thermal power / heat production is carried out and the results are “remarkable” begins testing for underlying processes. Based on the results of this work begins – if there is any reason to go on – in collaboration with various energy experts studying future concepts for electricity and heat generation and analyzes of the significance of the E-cat may have for future
      energy production.

    • Torbjörn

      The document is from 31 august 2012.
      They want to do tests and research on the E-Cat during 2013.

      • Torbjörn

        Actually, they want to SUPPORT tests and research. They have about 43 million $ available.

  • Omega Z

    A Rossi post of interest: “Hydrofusion”

    Andrea Rossi April 18th, 2013 at 10:49 AM

    Dear Jan.Gustavsson:
    Our Swedish Team ( Hydrofusion ) is working very hard to allow us to put a plant for heat distribution in the area of Stockholm, therefore maybe your next winter will be warmed up also by the Cat.
    Warm (!) Regards,
    A.R.

    • _Frank_

      Rossi says that he is in the market with 1MW plants since a year and a half now.
      Hydrofusion was established one and a half year ago with the purpose to introduce e-cats to the market.
      And now Rossi is saying: “Our Swedish Team ( Hydrofusion ) is working very hard to allow us to put a plant for heat distribution in the area of Stockholm…
      What makes it so difficult for Rossi’s licensees to sale just one of these magic 1MW plants?

      • GreenWin

        Why has h0t fusion taken $270+ Billion taxpayer dollars over the last 60 years and delivered not one single watt of useful energy? Could someone not know what they are doing?

      • Richard Hill

        The answer is that Rossi has carefully (or accidently) priced the 1MW plant to match the price of heat available at low temperature from other sources. For example waste heat from cooling towers at electrical power plants is used for district heating in many places. If someone wants to pay market price for the electrical MW from a diesel genset the thermal waste heat available is nearly 2MW per 1MW electrical and is effectively free. Why buy a thermal only plant from Rossi?.

        • Omega Z

          Richard

          Only slightly cheaper & not by accident. To many unknowns so the price is intentionally kept high as in any new product. Even Existing technology that’s just improved.

          Additional Criteria doesn’t help. A NDA, & People involved being trusted. & for the Customer, a lot of headaches considering the Product. If Info slips out, it can be very disruptive of normal business.

          I’m thinking akin to being a Bomb disposal expert trying to disarm a bomb & 40 people crowding around trying to see what your doing. Bumping into you.

          Of course in that case, I’d jump up & scream & run like Hail. Freak em out. I can be arnrey like that. 🙂

          • http:[email protected] Blanco69

            Yes, I’ve often considered the “slightly cheaper” ecat rollout experience. This is a real possibility where the public at large believe that lenr gives us only about 10% saving on our energy bills at least in the short term. You could see the motivation, make even more money and soften the economic shift at the same time. It’ll be left to people like us to shout from the rooftops the truth that lenr should be 90% cheaper.

            • Omega Z

              1st adapters always pay the upfront costs. But that helps bring the price down for all the rest of us.

              Just standard business practice.

    • Omega Z

      Actually I brought up “Hydrofusion” because that’s who the tiff or misunderstanding was with last August 2012 on the Hot-Cat data.

      Many of us have wondered where that situation stood since then. Other then the SVT video, it’s been silent.

  • Job001

    Investing priorities are key.
    Utilities that reduce fuel costs without creating competition risk will obtain low risk high profit investment opportunities.
    Everything will be examined carefully, price risks, risk of lower barrier to competition, political and social risks, environmental impact, regulatory risks, existing business risk.

  • Peter Roe

    Rossi’s priority – building steam turbine power units – will be the ‘partner’s priority, as the indications are that this is their main business. ‘Plants for heat production’ may refer to 1MW container units, or possibly to hot cat plant designed and built by the partner for industrial heating applications. My guess would be the latter – it is difficult to see why Rossi would continue with the dinosaurian 1MW units unless ‘cat and mouse’ developments have made them far more efficient now.

    The ‘hot cat’ prototype looked pretty simple, and automated production should not present any great challenges. With possibly up to several hundred cores in a boiler, it is also unavoidable. It seems likely that if the partner makes gas-fired boilers, the same production methods could easily be adapted.

    I would envisage a pretty simple assembly resembling a vertical steam boiler, with hollow-cored hot cat units mounted between baffle plates in a cylindrical housing. The hollow centres would be used to house the heater elements (‘mouse’ type?) or gas firing arrangements. Several cores could be mounted one above the other in each channel. It would be logical to design units that are direct drop-in replacements for existing popular gas or oil boiler models, as well as building all-new designs.

    • GreenWin

      Peter, I suspect that if the corporate partner is well versed in power generation equipment, they will follow your “drop-in” replacement design.

      The lower the cost of entry into a new technology the faster it takes hold. There will be a lively business in boiler/turbine design amongst non-exclusive licensee’s of the underlying e-cat IP. Yours could be one of the contenders!

      • Peter Roe

        GW

        They would also look to their subsidiaries and existing customers first I think. The opportunity to upgrade to CF relatively inexpensively (boiler units need replacing at regular intervals anyway) would make this a guaranteed market if the price is right.

  • Roger Bird

    I agree with Jimr. A report is not going to magically appear right after the testing is finished, however it pains me to say this. So we need to be patient, again. But don’t forget, this time.

  • Maks

    “Technological priority is electric power production.” What does it mean? “ElectroCat”, instead of heat-direct electricity generation without turbines and thermo converters? Or just e-cat plant with thermo converters as product for generation of elecric power?

    • captain

      Here we’re at last!

      Priority to electric energy production, and IMO in the simplest but fastest way just to demonstrate the e-cat plants possibility.
      Thus, hot dry steam thru turbines.
      The most common, the simplest, the fastest way to do it.

      Very good.

  • daniel maris

    A photo of the factory or assembly area would be nice!

  • SolarSurfer

    About a year ago, Rossi wrote:

    Andrea Rossi
    March 23rd, 2012 at 8:13 PM

    Dear Philippe George:
    I want also to add that:
    1- the robotized line to produce the E-Cats is already in production
    2- the programs of the robots will be adjusted as soon as we will have the requirements from the certificators
    3- we already got the green light from all the competent Authorities, so far the certifications are in course.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    He later corrected himself, saying the factory was “under construction”, not “in production”. And yes, he was talking about domestic e-cats back then.

    • Miles

      They’re all his words. Domestic e-cats, so we could expect them late 2013 / 2014.

  • Jimr

    Publishing in any formal manner will not be before late June. Possible copy of study from group in May.

    • Barry

      What is your source Jimr. Is this just your opinion?

      • Jimr

        Strictly opinion.

        • Bob

          We’ve already got the report in abbreviated form nearly a month ago when Rossi reported;-
          ” ONE OF THEM TOLD ME ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”.

          Note the wording, “We got evidence” rather than something like ‘We have conclusively proved..’
          Note the wording, “that the effect is real” rather than ‘the energy catalyser produced abundant excess energy’.
          Note the wording, ” beyond any reasonable doubt.” rather than ‘beyond all doubt.’

          Unless here is some good reason for the person who made this statement to be so clearly reserved, the report will show that athough the tests were done by the measurement of radiated heat and are therefore not precise, the tests performed show the LENR effect to almost certainly be real with a small excess of energy being measured.

    • Kommisar

      It takes an enormous amount of capital, engineering, management, and time to develop an automated assembly line, particularly for a brand new product unlike anything on the market. Plant layout, custom machines, custom robotics, custom machine control, etc. Easily in the 10’s of millions of dollars, and many man-years of time.

      While I’m sure Rossi is aspiring for an automated line, I seriously doubt we will ever see one. Moreover, I’m concerned that it will be yet another reason to delay public disclosures of the technology – because his partner is waiting for the plant to be completed, etc.

      It bears repeating – any number of funds/investors would dump enormous amounts of money on the ECAT if Rossi would validate it and make it available for robust testing. But that, in my estimation, and after following this story for nearly two years, has not happened.

      Best regards

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        Perhaps because Rossi doesn’t need an enormous amount of money, but he needs the right amount. He knows best what is the right amount, but I am pretty sure it is not enormous. Enormous funding would easily imply a long project.

      • GreenWin

        We have hard evidence from the Silicon Valley Future Energy “conference” that the investor community has been kept in the dark about LENR. Either that or the sim is badly broken.

  • Jacob

    I think there is still technical issue should be solved first regarding
    “controlling” the nuclear reaction inside the reactor.

  • http://www.we-cat.com John Bull

    Admin,

    Please, tell us something more about the “Signs”…what is your guess the report will come out?

    Yours,

    JB

    • http://www.e-catworld.com admin

      The signs I see are just things I pick up in my research and communications — for sure, my interpretation of the things I learn about. I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess about when the report will come out. Like everyone else, I hope within a few weeks.

      • http://www.we-cat.com John Bull

        Frank,

        You are a gentleman (and a star).

        JB

        • NJT

          Agreed, Frank keeps this site robust and interesting in the great anticipation – we all hope is forthcoming soon!