Rossi on Going Public

A recent question by a reader on the Journal of Nuclear Physics brought up the question to Andrea Rossi about whether in was possible to buy shares in Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation. Rossi answered:

No, I think that our enterprise is still very risky, and, as I always said, I want not to play foot ball with the bones of the others. We sign contracts only with expert persons and corporations, perfectly aware of the fact that they are joining a warship, not a cruise ship. When we will be at a stage in which investments on us from unexpert persons will be safe, we will go public, respecting all the ethical, deontological and National laws.

Rossi has given similar answers in the past. I find thee phrase ‘playing football with the bones of others’ a bit strange — I take it to mean that he doesn’t want to benefit from investors when they could lose money in a risky venture.

This Q & A raised a question with me about the status of Leonardo Corporation. From what Rossi had said about his partnership with the mystery USA company, I had wondered whether Leonardo even existed any more — so I asked him about it, and this was his response:

Leonardo Corporation is still an indipendent company, even after the strategic contract made with our USA Partner.

I will be very interested to find out what kind of arrangement the two companies have made.

We don’t know if the partner is a public or private company, if it’s public it will possible to invest in E-cat technology via the partner. Otherwise, it looks like from what Rossi says that people will have to wait until the domestic E-cats are on the market before being able to invest in Leonardo.

  • AstralProjectee

    I think it’s possible that Rossi meant that Leonardo Corp my be on the chopping block or something like that and he didn’t want to bring in anyone to invest if Leonardo Corp specifically didn’t make it.

  • http://rossifocardifusion.com/author/john John De Herrera

    “The reason that we are not launching our prototype at this stage is that the Chinese will steal the idea and produce it in millions overnight.”

    One way to avoid the pitfalls of putting out reactors where someone can ‘steal the secrets’ is for the Rossi partner to build many reactors, install them (world wide) and start selling electricity and heat energy to commercial industry, homes, schools, churches, public buildings, etc. NO ONE CAN BUY ONE AND TAKE IT APART! jdh

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Iggy Dalrymple
      June 6th, 2012 at 8:04 AM
      Dear Dr Rossi,
      Have you considered forming your own wholesale electric utility? You could sell electric power to cities, utility companies, and large industrial users. That way you could better protect your intellectual property. My small town (population 2,500) sells electricity to its citizens, but buys all its power from the grid.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      June 6th, 2012 at 8:18 AM
      Dear Iggy Dalrymple:
      Our strategy is to sell the reactors, but your sggestion could become of actuality in future.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      • Roger Bird

        Scientific proof of what I have always suspected: Iggy is one cool dude.

  • jjaroslav

    Critical elements for Rossi are first and formost protect the technology. After that there is the business capital and infrastructure to get to launch and revenue production. A tough thing to put together on your own without that kind of skill set. From his standpoint and for a technology this significant it is vital that he partner with ‘big muscle’ to protect the technology and get him to market and with that big partner, which I hope he has, Rossi may never need to go public.

    Opportunities for investment:
    All Furnace and water heater companies
    Transportaion (power train supply)
    GE, Toshiba, Mistubishi, Siemens, etc…
    Small electrical generator companies.

    Things to short:
    all fossil fuel production and distribution (oil, NG, Coal)
    all existing large power generation
    ‘green’ energy

    • John Littlemist

      What about this:

      http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-04-12/outokumpu-drops-on-deutsche-bank-funding-warning-helsinki-mover

      Outokumpu is the biggest european stainless steel producer.

      • jjaroslav

        Think that is a case of Finnish wages….look to Russia to fill the void

        • John Littlemist

          Well… Outokumpu’s struggle is due to their high gearing ratio, which has nothing to do with the finnish wages.

          I was just wondering whether Outokumpu could benefit from the possibly soon coming LENR boom. Outokumpu’s stock is creeping low now.

          • jjaroslav

            Didn’t realize that they were so heavily leveraged…pre 2008 loans?
            Well certainly the Stainless component is going to be there…assuming that the engine will in fact require SS parts. But I think at all heavy industrial will see lower variable costs. So I think that in that environment the cost of acquiring and moving RMs, intermediates and finished goods will recede in relative importance and labor will increase.
            So everything that supports the labor side should increase in relative value….Food, clothing, real estate, health, entertainment, transportation…BIOtech…

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        In 2010 they decided to grow by buying a ThyssenKrupp unit. However the EU then threatened them by antitrust laws unless they sell some other unit. They reluctantly decided to sell an Italian one. I think it’s still the aftermath of that.
        Stainless steel production should benefit from LENR because consumption of advanced steels is a function of world’s economic growth and because energy is a major cost item in steelmaking.

        • John Littlemist

          Kiitos, Pekka for your insight! 😉

  • georgehants

    Vortex is not updating since the 10th, anybody know why.

    • artefact

      The problem existed in the past sometimes. Should work again soon.
      In the mean time there is only newvortex left. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/newvortex/

    • captain

      Hi george, it’s not a matter of updating or less a website, short interruptions are usual: I was not considering important what U may believe by simply reading my comments.

      That said, to understand better Rossi’s ideas, we have to decrypt the meaning of his answers, in the specific his “We’ll see” speaks clear… maybe not COP30 now but 40 or 50 very soon.
      Though I’m not a technician, I remember that the e-cat power can be tremendous, and within safety limits.

      In other words, wait and see, without forgetting that almost surely there’s a big battle behind the scene in the world energy scenario.

      • georgehants

        Hello captain, I could not agree with your last two sentences more.(if he is genuine)
        Regarding your first sentence, I think I am missing something you are saying.
        Best.

        • captain

          Soon after the 3rd party technical report, officially the commercial 1MW hot plants will start their real life and they will be unstoppable.
          Wait and see, in the states and abroad.
          And USPTO approvals/certifications/validations?
          US are not the world, only an important part of it and Rossi has played his cards right.

          • georgehants

            captain, I agree in full, we wait and if genuine the World will change overnight.
            The crimes of science will be clear and it will be an opportunity for sanity and reason to overcome the negative forces that are destroying this World.

            • clovis

              +1

        • captain

          http://www.focus.it/scienza/e-cat-e-fusione-fredda-intervista-a-sergio-focardi-201108091506_C7.aspx

          Video interview (in italian, sorry) with prof. Sergio Focardi: @min.17 he talks of his tests with Andrea Rossi, long and short esperimental tests.
          They’ve got COP200 BTW … 😉

  • captain

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/ (unavailable now)

    I’ve already posted this, but went in mod.n and not yet seen – Bah… who knows?

    From Rossi’s JONP:

    gio
    April 7th, 2013 at 7:39 AM

    dear ing. rossi
    i read your reply to gherardo about the mouse that has improved the cop.
    So the mouse has doped the cat !!!!!
    If i say 30 …….. i light the right number!!! 🙂
    gio

    Andrea Rossi
    April 7th, 2013 at 1:10 PM

    Dear gio:
    We’ll see.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • captain

      The JONP website is on, now!

  • Brad Arnold

    My strong suspicion is that there will be a distinct before, and a distinct after (as in before LENR, and after LENR emerges onto the market). In other words, we are just children playing in the sandbox now, but once the world catches drift that LENR is a practical alternative to fossil fuel, the cat will be out of the bag, and things are going to get nuts. Go Rossi and Leonardo: eagerly awaiting that third party verification report, and much more importantly those mass produced 1 megawatt LENR generators that are supposed to be going to wait listed customers starting in April.

    Once the media gets a look at a working 1 megawatt LENR generator on site, then the fun begins, and LENR investment potentials will be everywhere.

  • stuey81

    it worries me Rossi can’t get words like “independent” right, Rossi there is only one i in independent. I’ve been letting this slide time and time again, and i know english is your second language, but i think its time for you to get a spell checker! it will make you look a little more professional

    • georgehants

      stuey81, I wud say as long as he gets the mesage across oo cares.
      Do ya c what I meen.
      English spelling is of course an arbitrary illogical code only held together by the lack of will to improve it.
      All children must learn this code by rote as it is almost entirely unnatural, which causes them much distress.

      • Stuey81

        You english speak goooooood! Lol

        • georgehants

          Ha, 🙂

  • pg

    3

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Rossi’s answers are consistent with venture capital start up financing, probably a major company venture capital arm, like GE Venture Capital Fund.

  • artefact

    Looks better each time. And many pictures.

    From MFMP:

    Status of HUG research

    http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/follow-2/228-status-of-hug-research

    • http://www.thistm.com Karen Wood

      I may be wrong, trying to secondguess the meaning of the words from a foreign minded person, or a scientist with way-beyond thinking..

      so, The Band, “Rush” has a song titled “Roll The Bones”, and the idea of playing foot-ball might be referring to an idea, similar to my own; (observing, and whincing, …squinting at them) ..the mentality of the whole society, where-as they play “get-the-ball”, like little children with nothing better to do than “kick-the-can”. (screaming fans yelling: Yay Joe! way-to-hustle, whoo-eeee!!!).

      That’s as far as their intelligence takes them. -They work, eat at McDonald’s and work some more… -perhaps selling tickets to the pork-fest on Saturday Nite, -only $17 for two! On other weekends they have a BBQ and eat hot-dogs (nummy-nummy). Yum-Yum. (what’s in this? oh they’re beef? -oh, they’re just duh-licious..).

      My point? Rossi (and the intelligence of other like-minded individuals) are onto something.
      A Hunch.
      Some fascinating discoveries, and astonishment.

      Sharing that NEWS with others is inevitable. Then comes the attempt by others to try and grasp the meaning (with their hot-dog minded educations).

      Or more appropriately, “What’s in it for me”..

      How can I invest in Rossi’s world changing invention?

      “Boy I’ll be rich off his invention, if I could only invest in that product…Gee oh boy, I’d buy a freezer-full of hot-dogs, and have all my friends over for Sugarbowl”.. Oh, golly life would be great then.. all my friends… but I wouldn’t invite Glady’s over -that f*c*ing b****!

      My interpretation is that Rossi has probably done some deep-thinking about ramifications.

      If realized, ECAT changes EVERYTHING as we know it.

      If the posters considered owning an ECAT, and how their lives would change, the idea of investing money is not the question.

      The question is: “What will I do if life as I know it, no longer requires me to be part of the networked society huddling together in neighborhoods, driving in cars to go to a job.

      Everything changes.
      Everything.
      Every-Think.

  • GreenWin

    Dr. Rossi is not interested in the burdens of running a “public” company. The SEC paperwork alone is an enormous undertaking. Public companies are required to file many documents disclosing their activities to investors. IMO, the Leonardo trust is the majority control in whatever partnership is established and will remain so going forward. This means Dr. Rossi remains the principle decision maker.

    Electing to contract with people “…aware of the fact that they are joining a warship, not a cruise ship” – is yet another naval reference, indicating the conflict of interests in play. But what “enemy” does the Leonardo partnership perceive? Military industrial financial forces opposed to LENR disclosure? Green communists? The Rockefeller brothers? ET?

    Rossi’s new challenge is to maneuver the ship he’s on, into peaceful waters, dispensing aid along the way. It is a mission for a liberating army of soul soldiers, not defenders of the realm.

    On April 22, 1945 Soviet and Polish forces liberated Sachsenhausen, the German concentration camp where nearly 100,000 prisoners died of exhaustion and cold. Like it or not, it took the bones of the dead to convince humanity of the atrocities of war. Ubiquitous energy for all mankind will do little, if the human spirit has not discarded its violent tendencies. Realigning the mission is the way to accomplish that.

    • Mannstein

      Too bad the prisoners of Uncle Joe’s Gulag were not also liberated at the same time. His camps had little to do with war and everything to do with the filthy Communist ideology. But what can you say, the US considered Stalin Mr. Nice Guy.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Mannstein wrote: “But what can you say, the US considered Stalin Mr. Nice Guy.”

        Not in my neighborhood. I was born in 1939 and remember WW2. My early impression was that Hitler and Stalin were both brutal and evil. Yes, President Roosevelt had some influential communists in his administration.

      • GreenWin

        Point taken Mannstein. What we can say is the camps of Stalin were no different than those of Hitler, or Mao, the Myanmar junta, or prisons of CIA’s “extraordinary rendition.”(1)

        CIA World Factbook 2007 lists just five “Communist” countries: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, Vietnam. The United Nations now has 193 member nations. China is reasonably argued to be in Commie default – due to the number of millionaires/billionaires in the minority controlled CCP government.

        1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/05/cia-rendition-countries-covert-support

        • orsobubu

          This “communist” definition is a pathetic (but successful) trick used by bourgeoise to instill a false ideology in the subordinate, working class and push it to work surplus hours to defeat other competitors in the market and reproduce the surplus value, which is siphoned by them. At the same time, this ideology prevents revolution and is very useful to provide a motivation for social control, militarization and imperialistic wars. If there are billionaires, there is money. If there is money, there is capital and wage work . If there are capitals and wage work, it is not communism.

      • orsobubu

        To date, never existed in the whole history a communist state. Scientifically (critics of political economy) you have to talk about state capitalism, because in URSS etc there were wage work, capitals, banks, money, market etc. Communism is just a revolutionary program for the future. Start here for details: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinistra.net%2Flib%2Fbas%2Fprogra%2Fstru%2Findex.html

        See also Feyerabend, Geymonat and other top-class epistemologists’ work against false Popper doctrines. Remember also that US people are still soaked in Mccarthyism ideology. In reality, Stalin killed ALL bolscheviks. Like Hitler, he was a capitalistic dictator. Beware false communist ideology: communism is a possible production system without wage work, money, etc, someway like primitive ages (but, obviously, based upon automation, robotization, LENR and other advanced production and distribution systems and social organization instead of barter). In the same way, you cannot describe our economic system like “free-market capitalism” because, without massive bailouts, protectionism, money printing, monopolies, capitals exports, pervasive finance, terrorism and war, western capitalism would only be a relic of the past. Finally, if communism would really be the correct term for socialist countries, also China and Russia today should be defined as “communist”, because their transformations in last decades did not upset the basic economic structure (proletary class, money, banks, etc existed before and still exist now) and you should recognize that communism today rules the world.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          After centuries of trying, the commies still can’t make it work. They can barely feed themselves, unless you like tree bark.

        • Roger Bird

          How anyone can be so full of crap is a mystery to me. The reason that Stalin was able to kill all of those kindly and sweet hearted bolscheviks is that communism (not worthy of a cap) deliberately and overtly advocates a dictatorship with no checks or balances. Gee, you think that might be a problem? Duh!! And then there is the pivotal idea that the ownership of the means of production will determine the characters and behaviors of all of the citizen. That just ain’t so. Even if the state owns everything or everyone owns an equal amount, some people are still going to be monsters and some people are still going to be wonderful. Why isn’t that perfectly clear?

          But most important is that communism, just like nazism (also not worthy of caps) and many other “isms”, is riddled with hatred and envy and victimology. Their ideas aren’t nearly as important as their hatred and divisiveness.

    • Brad Arnold

      Malthusian-ism is at the root of dominance and violence – the competition for limited resources. Instead, ubiquitous energy would go a long way toward a world of abundance, and the avoidance of tragedies like Sachsenhausen (although frankly that isn’t the first or the last such tragedy in history).

      People generally don’t understand the game changer “ubiquitous” energy is. Most scarcity is directly or indirectly tied to the lack of cheap available energy (clean would be nice too). Malthusian-ism pervades human culture and philosophy, and directly contributed to the rise of Nazism.

    • orsobubu

      >Ubiquitous energy for all mankind will do little, if the human spirit has not discarded its violent tendencies

      Right. And you’ll find it is impossible eradicate violence in a society where a class exploits another one and needs violence in order to enlarge market world quotas.

      • buffalo

        @orsibubu.absolute rubbish.violence is inmical to the male homo sapien species regardless of class.this is biological darwinistic fact.

        • Roger Bird

          Violence will be more likely among animalistic humans and less likely among angelic humans. It depends up their characters.

  • georgehants

    Product Design & Development
    Innovative Self-Cooling, Thermoelectric System Developed
    Researchers at the UPNA/NUP-Public University of Navarre have produced a prototype of a self-cooling thermoelectric device that achieves “free” cooling of over 30ºC in devices that give off heat. It is a piece of equipment that acts as a traditional cooler but which consumes no electricity because it obtains the energy it needs to function from the very heat that has to be dissipated.
    http://www.pddnet.com/news/2013/04/innovative-self-cooling-thermoelectric-system-developed

  • georgehants

    LENR News
    Evidence that LENR is real [Updated-2013-02-09]
    If you read that article, it is probably because you are aware of recent announcements by commercial companies that Cold Fusion is ready for industrial usage. This first Part is addressing the basic question, whether Cold Fusion, now named LENR, is a validated scientific fact beyond any reasonable doubt, a probable phenomenon, a very doubtful, or beyond any reasonable doubt is non-existent.
    http://www.apprendre2point0.org/?curation=http://www.lenrnews.eu/evidences-that-lenr-is-real-beyond-any-reasonable-doubt/

    • artefact

      have not seen that page. Thanks.

  • georgehants

    Mr. Rossi and Cold Fusion is now old hat, time to move on, Ha.
    Iranian scientist claims to have invented time machine
    ——-
    Fox News
    Published April 11, 2013
    Back to the Future
    In the movie “Back to the Future,” Doc Brown builds a time machine into a Delorean. (Universal)
    An Iranian scientist has registered a time machine that he says will work with 98 percent accuracy.
    Ali Razeghi registered “The Aryayek Time Traveling Machine” with Iran’s state-run Centre for Strategic Inventions, The Telegraph reports.
    He said the machine would use algorithms to predict the future of any individual, between five and eight years into their future.
    Mr Razeghi, 27, reportedly told Fars news agency he had been working on the project for the past 10 years.
    “My invention easily fits into the size of a personal computer case and can predict details of the next five-eight years of the life of its users. It will not take you into the future, it will bring the future to you,” he said.
    The Telegraph reports Mr Razeghi is the managing director of Iran’s Centre for Strategic Inventions, and that he has another 179 inventions registered in his name.
    He said the invention could help the government in predicting military conflict, but he had been criticised for trying to play God.
    “This project is not against our religious values at all. The Americans are trying to make this invention by spending millions of dollars on it where I have already achieved it by a fraction of the cost,” he said.
    “The reason that we are not launching our prototype at this stage is that the Chinese will steal the idea and produce it in millions overnight.”
    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/04/11/iranian-scientist-claims-to-have-invented-time-machine/#ixzz2QAyFCHOJ

    • georgehants

      Admin above post just for fun (always possible of course)
      Could you moderate if suitable.
      Thank you.

  • Paul C

    Rossi is not interested in small investor money – he has partners that are well financed and if you OWN IT – you can write your own ticket – Rossi is with battle hardened crew they already know unsophisticated investors slow everything down, not to mention the attornies always looking for another payday, we are getting close!

  • Luca Salvarani

    Taking aside Rossi’s honesty in which I absolutely believe it would be a financial non sense to raise equity in this phase for his corporation. Primary for technical reasons! Issuing equity is extremely costly for all corporations, also for public ones! And for many reasons (one is the adverse selection and the signaling to the market..). This cost is exponential for a corporation like Leonardo Corporation (at the moment) so it’s in its self interest not to go public or issue shares. Everyone who knows a little about corporate finance can explain you this point.

    • SolarSurfer

      He doesn’t say he is not taking money. He only claims he isn’t doing so from people he considers “unexpert persons” (whatever that means) who are not aware of the risks involved. And of course we know he is taking money for distribution licenses. So it doesn’t prove anything either way. What I don’t get is his insistence that Leonardo is a free entity. My impression also was that he was firmly connected with the unknown partner in every way and that even before that, Leonardo was controlled not by him but by some trust fund. Fortunately all of that can be found on rossilivecat.

      • Luca Salvarani

        Dear SolarSurfer

        1) Of course he’s taking money from somewhere to run his company… the point here is from whom? And how! Selling distribution licenses is absolutely consistent from a financial standpoint: it’s much less expensive than raise equity capitals.. You don’t realize that there are many ways to finance a corporation and that each way has its own advantages, disadvantages and costs for the issuer (which is Leonardo Corp)… As of now issuing shares is the last thing that a professional CFO would suggest to Rossi! I’m only saying that this choise doesn’t prove Rossi’s honesty (even if I trust him).
        2) I think Rossi is perfectly right in saying that Leonardo Corporation is a free entity because I believe he retains the operative and financial control of the entity… Of course there’s a corporate governance but who taking decisions is Rossi! I would add thank God for this!

      • Roc Joco

        Rossi chooses his words very carefully. You are absolutely right Surfer, he has received funding from more than one “qualified investor.”

    • buffalo

      hey @salvarani.whats with you and rossi,s ‘honesty’? His honesty has absolute zero importance in anything at all,either he,s gona show us/corporations a useful thing or not.honesty doesnt come into any equasion.

  • Roger Bird

    See, he is just trying to fool investors by showing how much he cares. This proves that he is a scammer!!! (sarcasm)

    People use evidence to support their perspective/paradigm. They don’t allow evidence to change their perspective/paradigm.

    • Luca Salvarani

      Dear Roger

      I absolutely believe in his honesty and I would define myself “the greatest of his fan”… but his honesty has very little do do with this financial choice… it’s a technical decision.

      • buffalo

        @roger bird,ridiculous.since when did rossi,s ‘hospitality’ determine the proofscale of his device.this case is closed until validation day.

        • Roger Bird

          I have no idea what you just said and how it relates to my comment.

        • buffalo

          @roger bird.you said he,s trying to fool investors by showing how much he cares.i am clearly disputing your assumption.

          • buffalo

            sorry roger bird.i didnt see the word ‘sarcasm’ after your statement.my mistake.

            • Roger Bird

              My lawyer will be contacting your lawyer. (:->)

              • Bernie Koppenhofer

                Boys, boys, be nice.

  • artefact

    From ColdFusionNow:

    Crack hypothesis gets community response

    http://coldfusionnow.org/crack-hypothesis-gets-community-response/

  • artefact

    I wonder what he means by “going public”. Does he only mean becomming a company one can invest in or does he mean going public in the media?

    • Luca Salvarani

      Deat Artefact

      It means issue shares traded on public regulated stock exchanges such as the NY Staock Exchange or London Stock Exchange… It’s a financial expression. Media have nothing to do with this. Anyway it doesn’t make sense for Leonardo Corporation to go public now.. Rossi is perfectly right about this and his true honesty is only a secondary reason in this case.

      • artefact

        >Anyway it doesn’t make sense for …

        Yes, but I want to know if it 100% and I want the world to know 🙂

        • artefact

          ah, my “beeing egoistic” tags got lost

      • captain
        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          You got me

        • Pedro

          Still betting on Carrier? Seems agood guess. Any idea what caused the jump in BWC stock to $30 end februari? Block trade? Large option position?

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      My impression is that Rossi (Leonardo) and his US partner have formed a separate private company. At some future date, after their venture is profitable, they may choose to have their company “go public” in an IPO, selling shares to the public.