Lewis Larsen Claims CFL Lightbulbs Have LENR Inside

Lewis Larsen, CEO of Lattice Energy LLC, and collaborator with Alan Widom on the Widom-Larsen LENR theory hypothesises that LENR reactions are taking place in standard compact flourescent lightbulbs (CFLs).

Forbes.com columnist, Jeff McMahon, spoke with Lewis Larson following an article published in the journal Environmental Science and Technology reported on finding unexpected isotopes of mercury in used CFLs. In their study the researchers stated:

The trapped Hg of used CFL show unusually large isotopic fractionation (the distribution of mercury into its various isotopes), the pattern of which is entirely different from that which has been observed in previous Hg isotope research aside from intentional isotope enrichment

Larsen believes that the unusual isotope of mercury found in the bulbs is evidence of very low-level LENRs taking place inside them, and said, “If this outstanding new data is substantiated by further experimentation, it provides yet more proof that LENRs are likely to be a truly ‘green,’ safe nuclear technology.”

The Forbes column can be read in full here.

  • Chuck

    Well, Dr. Larsen might want to investigate the isotopic distribution in a decommissioned mercury-arc valve. They’re typically used to regulate currents in the thousands of amperes and have a comparatively great deal of mercury inside.

    Any nuclear effects should be shown greatly magnified, as the heavy currents, duty cycle and lack of other contaminants, such as phosphors should exaggerate the effect.

    CFLs usually contain only tiny amounts of mercury in comparison to the other materials present inside the envelope.

  • georgehants

    From PhysOrg
    3Qs: The 3-D printing of tomorrow
    Professor Ahmed Busnaina’s method of directed assembly is faster, cheaper, and more versatile than traditional 3-D printing. What does it mean? Could $10 iPhones and tissue engineering breakthroughs be just the tip of the iceberg. Credit: Northeastern file photo
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-03-3qs-d-tomorrow.html#jCp

    • Omega Z

      Don’t Fall For It George.

      The Refill cartridges will bankrupt you.:(

      Fool me Once- Shame on you.
      Fool me Twice- Shame on me.

      Oh’well, Many times the printer goes haywire before the Ink Cartridge is empty anyway.

      At present, these 3-D Printers are Cheaper & Faster for developing Prototype products. Changes can be made on the fly before expending large amounts of money on mass production processes which tend to lock in design development. Their also cheaper for small run production into the 100’s of units or specialty/customized products.

      Mass production is still much cheaper when you start talking about 100’s of thousands or millions of units.
      I still hope this will change in the Future. We can always hope!(:

  • georgehants

    Scientific American
    Obama to Announce $2 Billion Plan to Get U.S. Cars Off Gasoline
    This afternoon, President Barack Obama will ask Congress to direct our cars, trucks and buses to a realm that doesn’t include gas stations. During a visit to Argonne National Laboratory, he will call for $2-billion energy security trust fund dedicated to research to boost automobile efficiency, enhance battery technology and expand the use of biofuels, among other clean-energy efforts. The ultimate goal: getting the country off oil.

    • _Frank_

      That seems that the president doesn’t know anything about a 1MW e-cat plant running in a military site for one new now. Why to spend money for the expansion of biofuel-usage when you have the e-cat technology?

      • Omega Z

        Note that Bio-fuels are also expensive & still produce CO2 in the chain.
        Crude Oil can also be processed to be as clean as Bio-Fuels cheaper.
        NG would be a better alternative.
        so-called Green Alternatives are decades away from being economical & Efficient enough to power Big Riggs, Farm Equipment & Such…

        Nah, This is just Politics to appease certain Special Interest groups.

  • georgehants

    From PhysOrg
    Capitalism and democracy not compatible on the Internet.
    March 14, 2013
    “Really existing capitalism” is “turning the Internet against democracy,” says University of Illinois communication professor Robert McChesney.
    “When capitalism is mentioned, it is usually as the ‘free market,’ which is taken as a benevolent given, almost a synonym for democracy,” McChesney writes. Yet “really existing capitalism” doesn’t fit with the free-market “catechism” or with democracy, he writes; “the crisis of our times is that capitalism undermines democracy.”
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-03-capitalism-democracy-compatible-internet-author.html#jCp

    • Karl

      Here further on the topic on Internet – without it CF/LENR would still have been kept in the dark but there are obvious threats:


      Page 8

      “A seductive and more powerful generation of proprietary networks and information appliances is waiting for round two. If the problems associated with the Internet and PC are not addressed, a set of blunt solutions will likely be applied to solve the problems at the expense of much of what we love about today’s information ecosystem”

    • Omega Z

      A Farmer has to cross a raging river to get his crops to market, But there is no bridge. He has nowhere near enough material or free time to build one. Conundrum-What to do.

      His Fellow farmers find themselves in the same predicament.
      They come together for a meeting & all agree to contribute a portion of the Materials needed & a designated amount of their time to build the bridge. Time/materials from each may very, but provided in a manor to be of equal value.

      A Formation of Resources. Capitol formation or Capitalism. This is in effect what built the Internet. Billions in Capitol investments.

      Today, Someone/Entity already has the Capitol. They will build that bridge for the Farmer freeing his time to be more productive at what he does best.

      They will purchase the Materials & hire the labor to build it. (A simplification here) They will charge a toll to recover there costs & on going maintaining expense plus Reasonable Profit/+Inflation Value).

      These Profits/Capitol return(Minus there *Personal Earnings*) will be rolled over into the next project that people want.

      Corporate Profits. 80 year average is about 9.2%. Figured in all product purchases to varying degrees to You.
      The Percentages of this profit payout Vary, but basically of this Corporate Profit of 9.2% average
      1. 40% goes to Government Taxes. Fed/St./Lcal
      2. 27% goes to Pensions- 401K’s etc. Taxed again when paid out
      3. 33% goes to Private investors Etc. Taxed at personal rates.
      Yes- 2 & 3 are taxed after tax.

      If you eliminate these profits, The Government will have to recover it’s share either by taxing the product or your wages. Same with the pension portion or 12 trillion dollars of pension funds would cease to exist into thin air. Zero private pensions instantly.

      #3 is what gets reinvested -Minus the wealthy’s spending/living expenses(=Jobs) that Create Most of the new jobs each month. Hence the Government would also have to scarf that up & invest it. Government does a poor job of investing.

      What the Government could do is tax the Rich/investors in a manor that generates the most (Decent)Jobs for the buck. A Million for 1 Job or a Million creating 20 $50K jobs or variation there of. A Happy medium would be nice but rarely feasible in the real world.

      Primary Reason there is so much inequity in the world is you have to few producing to little for so many. And Rather then increase productivity by that 1, would be better(More Fair) to bring more into the work force becoming productive providing for themselves. Hence the 1 gets to keep more from his own labor.

      Example: Presently you have 1 person producing some individual excess with 4 others that add little or nothing to the product. They Share the fruits of your labor without contributing their fair share. Not enough to go around besides not being fair. The (1) isn’t their personal slave.

      This ratio needs to be fixed.

      In other situations around the world you have some who produce no excess & also have to share the fruits of their labor. Increased Individual productivity is required then non productive people brought into the work force to do their share of contributing.

      The Situation is actually simple. Yet Complex. Not everyone is lazy.
      You have People who would build plants/facilities to put these people to work if there was product to be sold. You have people more then willing to work/produce & Buy these products if they had a job. Problem Solved.

      Jump starting the process is difficult.
      Kind of like needing a Car to get somewhere with Gas. One or the other is of No Use. You need both at the same time. Economically tricky. “HOW?”

      I Actually have some Theories on how to do this but hey, I’m just a Dumba$$ posting on a blog. I have no Importance or say so in this world.

  • Gerrit

    last 15 1/2 hours

    Lenuco 548-516 = 32
    Photovoltaics 458-429 = 29
    SmartPwrNet 357-249 = 108

    • georgehants

      Just asked my daughter to get her friends to vote at the office.
      This all makes the vote a bit daft but needs must I suppose.

      • Gerrit

        SmartPwrNet managed to increase from 357 to 375 votes (+18) in just half an hour.

        We must collect more votes, or they’ll come flying by in the last hours of voting.

        • Gerrit

          SmartPwrNet gained another 20 votes in just the last 15 minutes. They have their whole parent company voting for them it seems.

          • Veblin

            SmartPwrNet is getting about 1 vote per minute right now and they seem to be cheating to win. At the rate they are getting votes I think they made some software to make email accounts and then vote and confirm them.

            • Gerrit

              I think they just send a corporate email and made every employee of the parent company vote.

              • Gerrit

                last 1 1/2 hours

                Lenuco 559-548 = 11
                Photovoltaics 463-458 = 5
                SmartPwrNet 441-357 = 84

              • Veblin

                If you look at the energy monitoring network and software they have it would not be hard to make it vote also.

                • Gerrit


                • AlainCo

                  lenuco is second 🙁

  • Gerrit

    It must be highlighted that the finding cannot be explained completely by known fractionation mechanisms.

    From the paper: “This hints at an as yet unknown isotope effect among odd mass Hg isotopes.”

    While most of the effect is certainly due to mundane fractionation, the deviation of the measured fingerprint to the expected fingerprint cannot be explained by known effects.

    That’s when it becomes open for discussion how this deviation comes about and whether LENR is a possible explanation for this deviation.

    It might be another yet unknown effect completely unrelated to any LENR that’s causing the deviation.

    Either way, as yet it is unclear what’s causing it.

  • As I said in the previous thread, this article has nothing to do with science or following the evidence because there is none. The mundane explanation is ordinary isotopic fractionation for the part of mercury which gets trapped to the glass. There is no evidence speaking against the mundane explanation and none is claimed so it’s pure groundless speculation. I could also speculate that there is LENR happening under my fingernail. The only miracle is a psychological and sociological one: why do people find empty speculation interesting, why does Forbes publish it.

    In very sharp contrast, real LENR research is based on some observational findings which cannot be explained by other mechanisms. Such as anomalous heat which exceeds the chemical limit 10000 times.

    • Gerrit

      “The mundane explanation is ordinary isotopic fractionation”.

      I don’t think that’s an explanation at all, it’s an assertion.

      The researchers apparently “can’t explain why it’s so unique”.

      So if it is indeed fractionation (which I think it most likely is) it is still not understood why this happens here.

      Currently we only have an observation of a unique isotope fingerprint in the glass and anything else is speculation and that includes the “ordinary fractionation” assumption.

      • georgehants

        If so then +1

        • George. I have no problem with the underlying lamp study. I however do have an issue with the LENR speculation that someone has glued on top of it. The lamp study follows the evidence, the glued-on-top speculation doesn’t. Furthermore is looks to me that the speculation uses certain loopholes in our language to distort the meaning. I’m referring to the fact that “unexplained phenomenon” can have two different meanings: a phenomenon which provably breaks existing models (like the E-cat after 3rd party validation) or a phenomenon which is not yet proven to obey them (like my fingernail).

          • georgehants

            Pekka, difficult for me as I don’t understand any of the technicalities.
            Is Gerrit correct in that we have an anomaly that is not understood in any form.
            If so then I like to say great keep an open-mind on every possibility and do the Research.
            I would also agree that if somebody is saying it “is” connected to Cold Fusion when they should be saying it “could” be connected they have gone to far.

          • Chris I

            Your fingernail is not an unexplained phenomenon.

            What that article reports (as far as I understood, I’m no expert) is an empirical observation which defies known models, hence requiring an explanation which is currently unknown. This is not void of scientific interest.

            The idea that the missing explanation might be LENR is a conjecture, Yes, a conjecture and not a theorem. It is still interesting that isotopic anomalies have been observed and so far not fully explained. The possibility that it might eventually turn out to be a case of LENR is a lot more interesting than your fingernail.

            • Gerrit


      • Fractionation is a priori not surprising in this kind of system where mercury atoms circulate back and forth between different chemical compounds and different phases when the lamp is switched on and off thousands of times.

        • Gerrit

          yes, but the isotope signature cannot be explained completely by known fractionation mechanisms.

          That’s why some degree of speculation about the cause of this discrepancy is allowed.

  • Chuck

    Well, I just don’t know about LENR–if you’re really into hammers, everything starts to look like a nail.

    I find this to be a bit more reasonable:


    • Gerrit

      from the article: “This process might affect some mercury isotopes more than others, leading to a characteristic ratio of isotopes in the glass.”

      but there is no explanation offered of why some isotopes like to get into the glass more than others.

  • vbasic

    Larsen also speculated LENRs are triggering the fires in Lithium-Ion Batteries in the new Dreamliner aircraft.


    LENR might be an easy to achieve reaction. This reminds me of questions about the rechargeable NI-Metal Hydride batteries. They have a warning label only to use NIMH chargers. Other types might cause overheating, bursts even worse. So I was thinking of testing that and hooking my geiger counter to overcharging AAs.

  • Chris I

    Now this is definitely interesting!

    All we need now is more definite tests on isotopic anomalies in Ni-H experiments. These are sadly insufficient.

    The last time I passed by my old physics dep’t I fished out an old pal who was once working at the SIMS lab there. He is currently on somewhat different work but still in close ties with them and I asked if he knew anything about Rossi & Focardi having requested tests on a sample of their Ni powder. He did not know in great detail, he said Carnera dealt with it, but no doubt the results appeared anomalous; he said Carnera found them interesting but in the end deemed better testing would be called for, in order to be fully convinced. He also said the Rossi’s prospective licensees from India had dropped by to enquire and he later heard they seemed to have lost interest.

    Personally, he was not very convinced. I did get the impression though that he is just very cautious; he wasn’t scoffing or hooting, only skeptical. I would even dare to call it healthy skepticism but I’m not sure. He did not seem interested in talking further about it and struck me not so informed either, beyond what he knew from Carnera.

    I suspect the main problem with isotopic analysis is that one would need to carry out a more exacting method, testing the same material before and after very exhausting euns with it, which I doubt Rossi is focussing on.

    • Andre Blum

      Thanks Chris, for this report.

  • Kim Patterson

    The CFL Lightbulb is something that every one uses
    every day now (for most).

    If nothing else it could serve as advertisement
    of the LENR affect to the psyche of people.

    This could serve as a pathway to “awareness”

    Its certainly is positive.


    • I have several friends that is Light Bulb manufacturers.
      Quite big ones… Ill give them a call later this afternone.
      Please provide all information there is on the subject.

      / Dr Bob

  • georgehants

    New nuke could POWER WORLD UNTIL 2083
    Salt reactor runs on nuclear waste
    By Iain Thomson in San Francisco
    Posted in Science, 14th March 2013 20:51 GMT
    A company spun off from MIT is claiming it has cracked the holy grail of nuclear technology: a reactor design that runs on materials the industry currently discards as waste and which could meet all of the world’s power demands for the next 70 years. It’s also “walk-away safe,” the designers claim, making it immune to the kind of meltdown that destroyed the Fukushima reactors.

    • They call this holy grail?
      What will they say to LENR? 🙂

      I hope April is the month we all are waiting for.

      • georgehants

        barty, sincerely to you 🙂

    • Roger Bird

      I have heard of this about a month or so ago. It looks good to me, but I am not a nuclear engineer, as you folks may have guessed. (:->) Even if LENR gets rolling, this would be a simpler way to deal with nuclear waste. It seems so simple that one has to wonder why it has not been thought of before.

    • Peter_Roe

      I have mixed feelings about this idea, and the apparently similar (at least in purpose) LENR driven GeNiE reactor concept (http://www.globalenergycorporation.net/About.aspx).

      I think I would want to know more about the end products of these systems, but any way to make inroads into the tons of incredibly radioactive material stored in ‘spent fuel ponds’ at most reactor sites (and all the other leaking heaps of nuclear garbage around the world) must be a Good Thing.

      There are probably neater solutions that will emerge, but as CF ‘remediation’ of nuclear waste must be years or even decades away (along with other observed influences on decay rates that might be developed and used), then if they are feasible, special-purpose fission reactors seem at present to be the only practical way to get rid of the stuff, and to even produce some energy from the process.

      • Peter_Roe

        Having watched the video, it seems that this really might be an answer to the problem of spent fuel, if not the other types of nuclear waste. It’s definitely something that needs looking at, regardless of how LENR pans out. The energy available just from ‘burning’ the contents of the world’s existing spent fuel ponds would apparently be enough to power the world for centuries, and such reactors could potentially reduce the radioactive garbage piles to virtually nothing.

        • georgehants

          Peter, would I be wrong to read this graph as saying that up to about 250 years ago we where heading for an ice-age then things began to warm, probably many reasons why, human activity, industrial revolution or just Natures ways.
          It would seem that gaining Evidence of this kind is useful, against the thousands of crazy, the World is warming because more people have ingrowing toenails, that comes out of main-stream science.

          • Peter_Roe

            AGW’s last stand. All Marcot has done is glue his curve onto the front of Mann’s hockeystick, but the hockeystick itself has long since been shown to be fake – based on heavily massaged data.

            If the IPCC has thrown in the towel (Delingbole article that fusionrudy linked in the previous thread) perhaps its time for Penn, Oregon State and East Anglia to follow suit.

  • Barry

    Who needs to wait for Rossi’s 3rd party validation. A positive LENR article in Forbes? Cold Fusion has arrived.

  • Gerrit

    At least more people will start to wonder what LENR is all about.

  • Sanjeev

    If his hypothesis is correct, may be someone can set up a device similar to a CFL but at a bigger scale and get not only mercury isotopes but also some useful excess energy.

    With experiments the exact mechanism can be found and amplified. This can become a new lenr tech.

    All depending on what actually causes uncommon Hg isotopes. A thorough study is needed to rule out other possibilities.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      “may be someone can set up a device similar to a CFL” that someone is Rossi

  • Andre Blum

    I like that last part!

    If it is LENR, we know from decades of experience that it is not (too) harmful.

    • I think that this may be the most valuable part of the discovery.