Rossi: Safety Certification Already Obtained for Industrial Plants.

I sent a few questions to Andrea Rossi via the Journal of Nuclear Physics.

1. What is the importance of the 3rd party tests and report to your commercial work?
2. Will the US partner be involved in commercialization of your technology outside the United States?
3. Is you US partner a public company?
4. How is obtaining safety certification progressing for your first industrial plants in Europe and the USA?
5. What is the current production status of your first low-temperature non-military plant?
6. What is the current production status of the hot cat prototype?

Dear Frank Acland:
1- they are not related
2- yes
3- confidential
4- we already got the safety certification
5- close to be completed
6- advanced, already under test
Warm Regards and a hug to all your Readers

I am really not surprised about the answer to question 3, but I thought I might ask. Having safety certification already granted is very important as it should prevent delays in installation and operation. Rossi has said that the first plant is on schedule to be installed in March. And it’s nice to get a hug.

  • Klaus

    Hi,

    wird der E-Cat 2014 auf den Markt kommen, vielleicht in Amerika aber in

    Europa ??

    Was meint Ihr ??

    Klaus

  • Winebuff

    Will the people/organizations be public when the 3rd party tests are complete??

  • Sanjeev

    I’m posting just to say thanks for changing the commenting system back, the discus was a hell and I felt out of touch.

    On topic, nothing new here, no news is a good news, maybe.

  • georgehants

    Interesting page but the U-Tube video has been withdrawn —
    Amazing New Technology Will Make Batteries Obsolete,
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread929493/pg1

  • georgehants

    All the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
    Victor Hugo

  • georgehants

    Dear Andrea, thank you for you responses. I just have one follow up, if you don’t mind.
    Last year we saw a safety certification from SGS which was for a voluntary self-certification of one of your plants. At the time, you said that this was not a ‘product certification’, and that would need to have been completed.
    Does you answer to question 4. below mean that now you have secured this product certification for the 1 MW plant?
    Is this also the case for the US hot-cat?
    Thank you very much. Some readers appreciated the hug!
    Best wishes,
    Frank
    ——
    Andrea Rossi
    February 26th, 2013 at 5:46 PM
    Dear Frank Acland:
    1- No, we secured the safety certification for the E-Cats
    2- the certification for the Hot Cat is in course ( advanced). Obviously we talk of the induatrial plants.
    3- The product certification is also in course.
    Warmest Regards, and still a big Hug to your Readers.
    A.R.
    p.s.
    Now I spared 1 free hour: I go to ride my bike.
    Frank Acland
    February 26th, 2013 at 3:21 PM

    • Gerrit

      I am not convinced, I need real proof before I believe that Rossi actually went to ride his bike.

      • Peter_Roe

        Does he even have a bike – and if he does, is it real or fake?

        • Drago Fredda

          It sounds too good to be true!

          • Barry

            I wonder how long it will actually take him to get to his bike.

    • barty

      This means NO news :( .
      He talked about the ~6 month’s old voluntary certification. Why can’t he talk/write in complete, clear sentences?

      This rises the suspicion Rossi wants to hide the (maybe non-existent) real progress, or – in the worst case – he only wants to grow our hopes.

      • John-64

        Or why can’t he get a PR person who is a natural english speaker?

        I really don’t understand Rossi’s motivations. I don’t care anymore about this “free” energy, I am much more curious about what happens to the whole Rossi-ecat saga, and the fallout, if it is shown to be a lie, or at least case of extreme delusion.

  • John

    > answer 1. I cant see how they are not related.

  • Gedo

    So,so far only Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat the only practically working Cold Fusion device in the world and no other real competitors around.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      That is also my baseline. One never knows what might be hiding though.

  • theBuckWheat

    I am from Missouri, show me. (And I am honestly looking forward to that day)

  • georgehants

    Typical science, a million words when just one would cover everything — TRUTH
    —–
    Scientific American.
    The ideal of objectivity.
    By Janet D. Stemwedel | February 26, 2013 |
    In trying to figure out what ethics ought to guide scientists in their activities, we’re really asking a question about what values scientists are committed to. Arguably, something that a scientist values may not be valued as much (if at all) by the average person in that scientist’s society.
    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/doing-good-science/2013/02/26/the-ideal-of-objectivity/

  • Bob

    A bit off topic, but still somewhat related to the status of the Ecat.

    Last summer/fall, a poster using the name Cures was providing a fair amount of inside information. I have heard of no news from him for several months.

    Also, another poster of which I cannot remember the list name, stated last fall that he had first hand knowledge of the third party tests, that they would be done by the end of November and that they would be “bullet proof”. (At least this is what I remember)

    Have these two individuals with inside connections posted anything recently?

    Also, what about Aldo Prioa at Prometeon? Any news from them?

    Thanks.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      End of November wasn’t too far off from mid Dec when the tests ended according to AR. Then they submitted the paper and are doing a new series of tests requested by the referees. Was it Francesco CH perhaps who was the poster. An Italian anyway.

    • daniel maris

      The last thing on Promoteon’s website was back in the beginning of Jan 2013:

      “If 2012 was the year of the LENR, which have grown increasingly more in the media as proof of the great interest in this field of research, 2013 may be remembered as one of the ‘E-Cat.During the year, in fact, are expected important news that, on the one hand, will allow many more people to appreciate the extraordinary potential of this technology and, second, to develop, and then on the market, most anticipated products: G as the Cat, the ‘H ot Cat, etc..

      A small taste of what “brewing” gave him these days the same Mr. Rossi, revealing one of the many hidden aspects related to this revolutionary technology: the fact that the ‘H ot Cat at high temperatures generates an electric current at the ends of the circuit used to trigger the reaction. . This phenomenon is very bizarre opens new frontiers in the field of research in basic physics for the possibility, but currently only theoretical, to produce electricity without the use of Carnot cycles and turbines.”

      There’s nothing newer than that I think – they seem to be recycling JNP material.

    • Bob

      So I guess the general answer is no… they have not been communicating lately. This is of some concern of which I have two issues that I keep irritating me somewhat like a splinter in my finger.

      1) Why is it so secret who is doing the testing? I do not really buy into the theory that they would be swamped with inquiries. I would think that the name/organization could be released and this would quiet a lot of speculation and give confidence in progress being made.

      2) In the past, some sources of information have came out, but then not heard from again. This is a little discouraging. I do not know if they have changed thier attitude towards the Ecat, have been “locked” out from the project or what. Entities such as Cures, Premetion, etc. who have inside information, would communicate some type of “positive” information. Such as confirming ongoing tests, etc. etc.

      Both of these concerns plague me much more than dates being moved out, new tests announced etc.

      Any thoughts?

      • Omega Z

        @ Bob

        Cures was exposed for leaking info. I believe that cost him his insider access.
        The Other you mention, I believe was Francesco CH?

        Both I believe live in Bologna. Rossi has since moved his research to Ferrara about 35 miles northeast of Bologna so they probably have very little access to 1st hand info.

        As for naming names, They do get swamped by curious people which can be disruptive, But more important is the unwanted attention from people who fear for their own livelihood & Political pressure.

        When you have 10′s or 100′s of billions of dollars at stake, People cause problems. Especially those who stand to lose.
        Cures compared it to a James Bond scenario behind the scenes.

        What I think was 1 of Cures more important posts besides the fact he had overseers looking over his shoulder all the time after being caught leaking info was to study the Data from the Hot Cat tests.

        More Specifically he stated at the after-death stage. I’m assuming this pertained to the Info/Rumor we’ve heard about the strange phenomena about the H-Cat producing Electrical current on it’s own at that point for a very short period of time.

        Most if not all those following, Missed this I think. They were to involved comparing the heat/Temp colors of the Black-body Photos.
        Thou I caught this, It meant nothing to me as this Data is beyond my level of comprehension.

        There are some pretty sharp people who post here, But One thing I’ve learned for sure following the E-cat story. We all miss important pieces of info from time to time. We get so focused on certain things & miss some obvious Clues/Info.

        Considering the Number of people following the E-cat story, This is an Amazing Fact unto itself.

        Here’s a tid-bit. National Instruments arranged 100 LENR Tests. That’s all I know. No one has done any follow up on the results or asked questions about this that I Am Aware Of.

        I believe this info became available during the NI conference in Texas. Does anyone have any knowledge of this.

        • admin

          I am under the understanding that NI provided instrumentation for some E-Cat testing at Bologna University — last year, I think.

          • Omega Z

            Admin-Frank

            Should have stated 10. Not 100

            This is what I was referring to & whether anyone had any news of that we may have missed.

            Before NIWeek, Stefano Concezzi, the director of “Big Physics” (clients linked to heavy physics experiments like LHC,ITER,…) gave a conference in Brussels & Rome, where he announced that his company had made double-blind replication of cold fusion experiments by ten laboratories, & that they were supporting cold fusion researchers.

  • georgehants

    From Skeptoid —-
    LENR: A bright future? Part 1
    Posted on February 26, 2013 by Mike Weaver
    Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) is the current label used for the troubled concept of cold fusion. Cold fusion was brought into the public conciousness by two scientists, Pons and Fleischmann, who announced directly to the public that they had a breakthrough new energy source in cold fusion. Initial excitement quickly faded as issues were found in their work, their methods of publication, and, ultimately, in that their work could not be replicated; a fatal problem in science. LENR, however, is enjoying a bit of a renaissance in science, with NASA researchers weighing in. Let’s take a look at what they are saying after the break.
    http://skeptoid.com/blog/2013/02/26/lenr-a-bright-future-part-1/

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Two repellents for me, 1) W-L, 2) “I want this stuff to be true”.

      • Peter_Roe

        Yes, 2) has become a definite red flag that ritually follows an attack on CF, overt or covert.

        • Gerrit

          It is great that the topic of cold fusion is discussed at a skeptic website.

          Do you realize who will be reading this article, do you realize how many impressions of “cold fusion” are being changed because of this ?

          Look at the comment section, nobody shouting “scam”, “fraud”, only a question about peer reviewed papers and one about “why aren’t there any real devices yet”. Both were politely answered by Jed Rothwell.

          The pseudo skeptics and pathological deniers have disappeared ?!?

          What’s next, wikipedia will tell the real story of cold fusion?

          • Peter_Roe

            Evidently maryyugohody hasn’t found the article yet.

            • Gerrit

              They have now

          • telecommuter

            OK. I’ll bite.
            What happened to the 3rd party report that was first due in – was it November?
            When, oh when, do you finally say, enough of the “it’s going to happen, it’s almost here, then…… nothing”
            Do you not remember the claim that a 1MW unit was sold last year? But, then, the 1MW unit was dismissed.

            And, please, avoid arguing that my statements are an attack against lenr – they are simply facts regarding Rossi’s statements.

  • Charles Stewart

    I have been waiting more than a year for the alleged US receiver of the first E-Cat to issue -through a trusted third party – a statement regarding the receipt of the E-Cat, whether it is working as advertised, what is it being used for and whether it is satisfactory. Even a top secret user should be able to find a trustworthy third party.

    Well, maybe not. Considering what the current govenment is doing, why should anyone trust anyone. Leakers are in every pipe.

    • Peter_Roe

      Supposedly the buyer is a military organisation. Military buyers do not generally issue endorsements or criticism of the kit they ‘procure’ so we are unlikely to hear any more about this unit. Obviously we can all put whatever interpretation we want on this situation.

  • georgehants

    I don’t remember this one —–
    From NASA via Vortex.
    Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, the Realism and the Outlook
    by Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center
    The current situation is that we now have over two decades of hundreds of experiments worldwide indicating heat and transmutations with minimal radiation and low energy input. By any rational measure, this evidence indicates something real is occurring. So, is LENR “Real?” Evidently, from the now long standing and diverse experimental
    evidence. And, yes – with effects occurring from using diverse
    materials, methods of energy addition etc. This is far from a “Narrow Band” set of physical phenomena.
    http://futureinnovation.larc.nasa.gov/view/articles/futurism/bushnell/low-energy-nuclear-reactions.html

  • GreenWin

    Aww, now I feel warm and fuzzy. A virtual hug from AR himself! It made my day. (check out NIST “helino” discovery, previous post.)

    • georgehants

      GreenWin you should bring that link forward.
      The Quantum is where everything is going to happen.

      • buffalo

        indeed george.the quantum and mawells demon is where its at

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          One way to understand the 2nd law in a particular case. The universe cools which means that heavier particles decay to lighter ones as long as possible while obeying the other conservation laws (momentum, angular momentum, lepton number etc). When heavier particles decay to lighter ones, we have e.g. 2 input particles and 3 output particles from a process. The reverse process (3->2) is more rare because it requires 3 particles to meet at one point while the other one requires only 2. Hence 2nd law: entropy increases. Roughly speaking, entropy is the number of particles in the universe. Photons are counted as particles. For example life on earth obeys 2nd law because we eat sunlight photons are radiate the energy back into space as more numerous infrared photons. We earn our living by increasing the number of particles (photons) in the universe, thus increasing its entropy.

          There there is so-called quantum immortality, a thought experiment of a conscious being that never dies because it always somehow manages to jump to the branch of the multiverse where it stays alive longer. The resulting universe is highly improbable, but its inhabitants do not care. Maybe a similar quantum trick would be needed to beat the 2nd law.

          • georgehants

            Pekka, that is all I ever ask, an open-mind that is willing to say as you have —-
            “Maybe a similar quantum trick would be needed to beat the 2nd law.”
            It is so depressing to hear a “scientist” say the laws etc. cannot be over-ridden by knowledge we do not yet have.
            It defeats the whole point of being a scientist.

            • telecommuter

              That is not science.
              Science observes that the 2nd law of thermodynamics has never been broken through many, many attempts. All it takes to have science take note is the results of an experiment that violate the 2nd law.
              The same can be said of the ‘principle’ that the max speed in the speed of light.

  • daniel maris

    Always interesting to have his replies to your questions Frank.

    Re 4 – I thought we already knew that. Wasn’t that what the SGS Certificate was for?

    Re 3 – Well I am very surprised by it. I read a lot about energy companies. I can’t myself think of any other firms that are engaged in the market that keep this sort of thing secret. I am not even sure it’s legal to keep it secret in some countries, like the USA and the UK (otherwise how would anyone ever know if there was insider trading or not? – and that is certainly illegal in both countries).

    Re 5 and 6 – “Close” and “advanced” mean nothing unless relativised to a timescale.

  • vbasic

    Frank, thanks for putting the comments up near the story content as it used to be. It’s more readable less confusing and feel more inviting to comments.
    Also, its great you are able to get responses from Rossi. I like his answer to the first question. Suppose the 3rd party tester say: “Well, there is something here. But we can’t figure what it is. Maybe a really efficient heater.” Customers on the other hand would see a working device and even with the X factor, would want it anyway.

    • yamal

      agreed – but i think what frank meant was whether or not rossi expects more visibility and hence more demand on the market from a published 3rd party report (correct me if i’m wrong) and i would think that would definitely be the case.

  • Peter_Roe

    I would assume that 4) refers to the SGS voluntary safety certification for the 1MW unit that we learned about during September last year:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/09/andrea-rossi-makes-available-safety-certificate-from-sgs/

    If it is sold to a private company it will need a stack of other tests and paperwork relating to pressure vessels, electrical safety and health and safety requirements.

    • yamal

      i’d also assume rossi’s referring to the sgs certification here. why would he need additional certifications? certainly there would be no certification needed for pressure vessels since the e-cat operates at ambient pressure.

      • admin

        Actually, what I was trying to find out was whether there would be any adverse effect on his commercial activity if the publication of the 3rd party tests was held up indefinitely.

        • yamal

          which raises another question. rossi may say the two aren’t related but if you were a potential customer, would’t you wait for the report if you knew it was in progress before buying? clever business practice would have been not talking about the report at all before it is published. as it is, it can only hurt business in the short run without generating any more business when it is finally published. so what is the point of talking about it many months before? the same could be said about the hot cat. making it known long before it could possibly become a product can only hurt sales of the original e-cat.

      • Peter_Roe

        From what little we know from the October demo, the 1MW unit is designed to produce steam at 120C+, which requires pressurised operation that would bring it into the area covered under ‘pressure vessel’ legislation.

        In any case any closed system that might become over-pressurised under fail conditions is required to be tested to any pressure it is likely to be subjected to under such conditions – normally the blow-off pressure of safety valves plus a margin.

        • yamal

          according to the data sheet, average steam temperature was measured as 104.5 c. barometric pressure in bologna was 1026 hpa at the time so at least during that test internal pressure couldn’t have exceeded about .17 bar oap. as with the previous tests, the truly astonishing thing is that rossi asks us to believe that his e-cats constantly perform to a precision within about two percent of the energy output determined by the preset, constant flow rate of his water pump.

  • Peter_Roe

    I would assume that 4) refers to the SGS voluntary safety certification for the 1MW unit that we learned about during September last year, as the 1MW unit currently being manufactured will be the ‘first industrial plant in Europe’:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/09/andrea-rossi-makes-available-safety-certificate-from-sgs/

    • admin

      I’m not sure about that, Peter. My understanding is that certification was for the first, voluntary, certification, and that a further product certification was necessary before a plant could be operated.

      I guess another question for AR there.

      • Peter_Roe

        Admin: not sure what happened then – I was trying to add to my post before seeing your reply, but it has appeared as a separate post.

        In reply to your response – yes that’s the case (comprising the other stuff I mentioned). I’m just not sure that Rossi is saying that everything is in place or just (as happens) applying his own literal interpretation of the question.

  • Peterem

    Frank, Thanks for all your efforts and dedication to the cause. Your site and commentators are a refreshing oasis.

    Hugs are good.

    • GreenWin

      +2

  • georgehants

    Good one Admin and we all got a hug.
    I’m happy back with old system, but the RSS 2.0 feed still takes me to bookmarks and not a new tab page,anybody know how to fix.