New Poll: In 50 Years, Where Do You Think Will the Majority of our Power Come From?

It’s time for a new poll! In the right sidebar there is a poll regarding the future of energy production. I put the timeline 50 years out to allow for the invention, development and implementation of new energy systems.

I realize the question is somewhat simplistic, but polls like this don’t really allow for complexity. For example, I have lumped all power (electricity, transportation, heating, etc.) together.

If you feel like explaining your answer, or including something that isn’t on the list please do so in the comment list below.

  • Thierry Robelin

    Why didn’t you include hot fusion in your list or energy sources?

  • GreenWin

    Preparation for LENR Theory:

    Here is a fascinating discovery by the National Institute of Standards and Technology that suggests we don’t know everything about QED and predicted behavior in “exotic” atoms. Researchers at NIST removed 20 of titanium’s 22 electrons and it becomes a highly charged ion that “looks in many ways like a helium atom that has been shrunk to a tenth its original size,” says NIST physicist John Gillaspy, a member of the research team. “Ironically, in this unusual state, the effects of QED are magnified, so we can explore them in more detail.”

    This appears to support Randell Mills’ hydrino theory. Mills predicts accurately that hydrino transitions produce signature soft x-ray spectra (blacklight) at n/137 (below Rydberg ground) as the electron charge moves closer to the H proton. In this exotic state atomic hydrogen behaves oddly.

    The NIST experiment produces what might be called a “helino” (coined here) – a shrunken helium atom. Most exciting is the acceptance that maybe… just MAYBE, QED does surprising things at these condensed matter states. Something Purdue’s Dr. Kim has been suggesting for a long while now.

    http://nanopatentsandinnovations.blogspot.com/2012/11/nist-experiments-challenge-fundamental.html

    “…if no errors are found in the theory and the NIST experiment is correct, some physics outside of QED must be present.”

  • admin

    Folks, I just disabled Disqus commenting.

    There are things I like about it, and things I don’t. The biggest issue in making this decision is that it turns out when someone tries to do a Google translate of a page, the original post gets translated, but the comments don’t.

    So we are back to where we were a few weeks ago — all comments made on Disqus have been saved in the native WordPress system.

    Thanks for all your contributions!

    Frank

  • georgehants

    Ubiquitous Energy sets focus on solar cell technology
    February 26, 2013
    (Phys.org)—Can windows,
    tablets and e readers turn light into power? Can a surface coated with
    solar cells take sunlight and the glow of bulbs and change them into
    energy? As reported in Technology Review, expert scientists at a new
    startup called Ubiquitous Energy have those feats in mind. They want to
    develop transparent coatings and films that could harvest light energy
    when applied to buildings’ windows or mobile-device screens.
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-02-ubiquitous-energy-focus-solar-cell.html#jCp

    • georgehants

      Admin tried to post this below as a reply, it would not except, when I put it here have to refresh page for the post to appear.

  • georgehants

    Wonderful day, I think the Italian election with a professional comedian receiving 25% of the vote just about sums up the state of much of the World today.

    • hes

      There is no reason to emphasize that Beppe Grillo is a comedian. R.Reagan was an actor and he was a pretty good president.

      • georgehants

        hes, I was not being unkind to the gentleman, just pointing out that I think you will find this was a protest vote.

      • Peter_Roe

        Politicians do in general need good acting skills. A sense of humour isn’t normally an asset, although those who vote for them usually need one.

        • GreenWin

          An honest LOL!

  • Stanislas Bauer

    1) we are still waiting to be convinced by reality of LENR….. Mr Rossi: please, stop to play with our nerves ! 2) I think that – if real – LENR can take 25 % of the market, solar is really interresting, ( and also the implest: insulation ! )

    • Daniel Maris

      I agree!

      Onshore wind energy is now at roughly the same cost as coal in most places (much better in some). Costs are likely to continue falling thanks mainly to volume production and – I believe – once we start replacing the turbine mechanisms in 20 years (because the towers, blades, platforms and road networks will still be there, and they are a sizeable part of the cost).

      So wind energy is going to be a big contender in the future.

      I think low power wind turbines in urban settings might also come to the fore, especially on new build projects.

      Solar costs are also falling dramatically. We can expect further falls thanks to technological advances which are continuing. One possibility intrigues me – infrared collectors on the reverse of panels to capture infrared radiation at night. At present these aren’t v. efficient but may become more so with advances in technology.

    • AlainCo

      look for SRI report, and Defkalion report by nelson… COP of 3, with control, is already a revolution in physics… no reason, from other science, that COP cannot get above 10 at more than 300C.

  • Jim

    StumbleUpon has a topic area for cold fusion. This article highlights parallels between the development of transistors and the development of cold fusion.

    http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1PtAmW/www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue25/transistors.html/

  • What if

    If LENR is real, it will be LENR
    If LENR is not real, it won’t be too much of a civilization left in 50 years as we remain stuck on this planet and all cheap hydrocarbons and uranium are long time gone.

    • GreenWin

      ATTEN: Frank – this guy is displaying infinite unoriginality by pretending to be me. Check the URL for proof. Oh well, imitation is the price of success. Kindly show this imitator the proverbial door. thanks.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I think it’s a Disqus bug, it sometimes displays the poster name wrong. I see the name as “What if”.

      • ecatworld

        I see the poster’s name as “What if” — I think you’re still unique, GW!

        • GreenWin

          Looks like Pekka was right. The name has reverted to WhaTiF… Ah well, I like the nesting and backgrounds of this format better. Sorry for the false flag!

          • What if

            I go on this website under this pseudonym , always. :P
            I’m the one and only, the original.

  • GreenWin

    Looks like the boys at Phys.org have carried the NASA basement reactor story for a week now. It is fairly clear the pathos will sew fear of “nuclear” in the minds of the public. It is a hopeless task as the public includes billions of people who doubt western and American scientists. LENR utilizes no nuclides in its process. But each human being has some 17mg of radioactive Potassium40 in their body!

  • Miles

    Here is my take, as insane as I may come across !! I think our new power will come from secrecy of UFO technology. The world can’t sustain 6,973,738,433 people (2011) – 7,302,000,000 (2015) people on this planet. Wars will be fought for water.

    UFO Technology is being disclosed in a movie call “SIRIUS”. It is being released on Earth Day April 22, 2013. The purpose of the movie is to Expose the greatest story never told. The suppression of knowledge that can liberate the world from the yoke of oil, gas, coal and nuclear power and replace the current world order with one of New Energy and true Freedom.

    The Earth has been visited by people from other worlds who are not malicious, but in fact concerned for the future of humanity.

    A cabal of military, industrial and financial interests have kept this contact and what we have learned from it secret for over 60 years.

    The technology will bring out suppressed and sequestered, black ops type technologies. Such as off the grid stand alone over unity power generators (free energy devices, good bye utility bills), electrogravitic, antigravity interstellar spacecraft, combustion engine retrofit conversions that enable water to be used as fuel (no more $5 a gallon gas fill ups). We will see the end of air pollution and the “green house effect”. Electricity generation will be so cheap we will be able to desalinate ocean (sea water) irrigate the deserts and end drought ever where on Earth. We predict an end to world poverty in one generation.

    This is a very small step – but hopefully enough to get people to open their eyes.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeZuYO-bNfY

    • GreenWin

      Wouldn’t it be fascinating if the extrabio entities support these revelations on a grand scale? With the technology that such people would have? Why, they could neutralize any weapon humans invented in a nanosecond. Arghh.

    • Peter Roe

      To adapt a phrase popularised by the NRA and apply it to the US DOD: “We’ll give you these technologies when you pry them from our cold, dead hands”.

    • Karl

      I recently had a chat with George about UFOs which I said I
      did not believed was real in spite my parents observation of a light phenomenon
      from a craft standing still over their car in north of Sweden many years ago.

      A few months ago I started to get more information. There is
      a huge amount of various testimonies on youtube and books that I really had no
      clue were available. As usual it is difficult to find good and trusted sources
      but it’s amazing how many people that witnesses of abductions under hypnosis.

      In this less technological but more mind perspective of the UFO
      phenomena and the future of earth and species envisioned http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihH0L_bffAA

      In view of this one hour discussion one might think of the
      discoveries of the possibility to release un-harmful nuclear energy like CF/LENR
      is part of a bigger plan and a possible saviour. In this light Rossi et al
      might be seen as having a higher mission as being part of a greater plan.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      For thousands of years, pharaohs and other rulers have descended from gods, mingled and made pacts with them and possessed supernatural forces. The elite typically makes a good effort to perpetuate such belief systems. This sounds much like being part of the same continuum of tradition.

  • praos

    The main forte of LENR is not cheap power, but size of the source. Lerner’s Focus Fusion, by its direct conversion, for instance, could easily beat the eCat in plants of over 5-10 MW, but when it comes to 1-100 kW range, LENR devices are most promising. I am firm believer in nuc energy, in all its spectacular brands.

  • clovis ray

    Hello , all
    Frank, i would think, some sort of anti-gravity device, there seem to be a renewal of interest lately and some fine real science minded, explorer,, that love to be out there on the edge, searching, for new ideas, that can and will i believe,change the world.
    And in 50 years you would not recognize your surroundings, and in those days instead of just setting down in a chair, you will just float, smile.kinda like setting on a cloud, without the wetness. smile,

  • Gerrit

    OT

    This is interesting. LENR/Cold Fusion is now a banned topic on PhysicsForums

    ZapperZ has just replied to a PhysicsForums thread you have subscribed to entitled – NASA’s page on LENR

    Click this link to view the reply:
    http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=673383&goto=newpost

    Here is the message that has just been posted:
    ***************
    Update: The Mentors have decided that the topic of Cold Fusion/LENR has been added to our banned topic list as of now. We have tried for a while to provide a forum for a rational discussion of this subject area, but most, if not all, of the discussions have not been up to the standards that we require within PF. Thus, this topic is no longer allowed for discussion in this forum.

    Cold fusion/LENR has been added to the list of our banned topics. Please refer to the PF Rules for the complete list.

    Zz.
    ***************

    All the best,
    PhysicsForums.com

    • barty

      They are…naive…

      • buffalo

        excuse me barty.they are naive for wanting to see a working lenr device when none is to be found?

        • Gerrit

          Are you saying that you think it’s OK that they banned discussions about LENR because there is no working device ?
          Do you know how stupid that sounds? With that logic they should also ban discussion about hot fusion.

          • GreenWin

            Tired old wannabes at PF have gagged themselves under strict orders. Why now? Because too much is coming out about a source of energy self-indulgent solipsists want to keep for themselves?

          • buffalo

            thats exactly what im saying sir.hot fusion requires billions of degrees celcius to attain.not an easy feat.lenr requires a pile of nickel dust and some hydrogen in a closed space.relatively easy.none to be found.they have the right to ban further discussion,if they want.

            • Gerrit

              You do not grasp the issue. You do not seem to possess basic logic skills.

              I would need to spend hours to get you to a level where you might grasp the situation. From your comment here I can’t even decide where to start. I do not think it is worth it, do your homework yourself or stay oblivious. As you like.

            • AlainCo

              first there is SRI and Defkalionn test reports…

              Rossi is not the only in the circus, even if he is the leading clown.

              second for a scientist, facing 1000 papers, 8 reviews, 180 peer reviewed sucessful experiments, 6 protocols, a handful of different proved effects, claiming that they wait for a tea kettle, is … STUPID.

              they have the right to doubt, but i don see the tea kettle for Higgs boson.

              here we have to use our brain, and judge that it is a very common lack of honesty, ethic and intelligence, and that they are such in group, which make them unaware of that.

              If you lack of information, you can still keep some doubt, but being sure of the opposite is not rational.

              It is however classic. no news.

    • Sergio

      Someone should immediately compile a list of people and organisations who decided to ban/reject LENR phenomenon and put that list up on a website once LENR publications become widely accepted.

      On top of that list should be written something along these lines: Despite overwhelming indications for the existence of the anomalous heat effects, the following parties were found to be incompetent to recognize it at the time:

      And then we will see who dares to join that list. PF definitely deserves one of the top spots.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Just a friendly advice: if someone does something like that for whatever purpose, it’s better to list people’s public quotations than their names, unless they give their consent. Compiling undisputed facts is OK (such as person X said Y or that organisation Z has rule R), going beyond that into interpreting their statements requires more care.

      • barty

        Good idea!
        You are welcome to do that at http://www.lenr-forum.com

        We will make a sticky thread of it, so it is allways on top ;)

        • AlainCo

          We the proud french have a french version of this physicsforum : forum Futura-Science …
          Not only they closed all discussion, with pathetics arguments, but they even banned me when I did some irony follwing their reasoning and showing ad absurbum how crazy was their theory when some one take the consequences.

          add Wikipedia who forbid all LENR reference sites, scientists, and forget Storms reviews, while jumping on each occasion to gather loose critics…

          SciAm with J Ouelette recently win a hot delusion award too…

          Nature have a long record, with some that could be judged as complicity of fraud by a judge.

  • artefact

    There is no hot fusion in the list? ;)

    • GreenWin

      In 50 years, hot fusion white collar welfare will need another $200B infusion to keep the dream alive. Brought to us by people who do not understand their own star, but strive to make one on earth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/roger.bird.710 Roger Bird

    I wish admin would have included nuclear fusion. Also, we can guess that approximately 44% of the people who voted don’t believe in LENR. But 56% do.

  • Sean

    1st Hopefully LENR. 2nd possibly a thorium reactor. 3rd A great discovery or gift of an entirely new energy source not too far away in quantum physics land.

    • buffalo

      now we,re talking mate.it just so happens that the 2nd law thermodynamics is being seriously assualted on many fronts as we speak.a new revolution is underway.

      • artefact

        Yes. quentron.com is preparing batches of test samples at the moment at Harvard University.

  • http://twitter.com/bbck777 Bernie Koppenhofer

    This question is very depressing for a 73 year old. (:

    • georgehants

      Bernie, I am only just behind you in age, we can do another 50 years easy, Ha.

  • georgehants

    Guy’s, If I am shown to be wrong I will admit it immediate, please show me wrong.

    If the unemployed in the U.K. where voluntarily put to work manufacturing and installing solar cells on every available roof, in a short time our oil imports etc would reduce dramatically and power would relatively be free to all.
    This can be done now not in 50 years.
    I am not concerned with any economic arguments of profit and loss, just the Fact that the Country would have very cheap Energy in the day when most is consumed.
    I concede that provision would still be needed for the night time.

    • http://twitter.com/bbck777 Bernie Koppenhofer

      georgehants… If Central Banks can buy government bonds they could also pay the “volunteers” and the “volunteers” could actually help the economy with buying power. Then private enterprise could start making high tech batteries to provide power for the “night time”. Gee, we have just solved the economic crises, the climate problem, and energy problem (:

      • georgehants

        Bernie, you are seeing my point in a roundabout way, I think.
        My point as always is that these things can be done without economics purely by recognising that everybody must have a guaranteed basic lifestyle whether they are employed or not, therefore one does not need money and finance just the organisation of production in such a way that people contributing more to society are better rewarded.
        By removing the economic paraphernalia that serves no purpose of a practicable kind, then the amount of wasted resources, Energy, time, etc. just to allow the rich to become rich would be removed.
        Difficult subject to cover but very worthwhile, I think.

        • http://twitter.com/bbck777 Bernie Koppenhofer

          georgehants….you are right in a very long term view, but we have to go through stages to reach your utopia. I agree with you it is a subject which must be discussed especially in the context of energy and climate.

          • georgehants

            Bernie, thanks, just having somebody see a little merit in what I see as the obvious next step to help put the World into some fair order is a relief.

            • http://twitter.com/bbck777 Bernie Koppenhofer

              Georgehants…In the US I am having a difficult time getting my own age group to vote for their own economic interests, we have a long road ahead of us.

    • yamal

      how can you say you’re not concerned with economic arguments and claim in the very same sentence that the energy would be ‘cheap’? it wouldn’t be. in fact the uk would have by far the most expensive energy in the eu or probably in the world. not exactly what is required to get all the unemployed back into serious jobs.

      • georgehants

        yamal, you have not apologised for your wrong accusations on the previous page.
        Until you do so please do not respond to my comments.
        I also do not answer pointless circler questions missing the point and made simply to be a troublemaker.
        I will ask Admin, if this person does not apologise for his behaviour on the last page to be removed.

  • georgehants

    NRL scientists produce densest artificial ionospheric plasma clouds using HAARP

    WASHINGTON-–U.S. Naval Research Laboratory research physicists and
    engineers from the Plasma Physics Division, working at the
    High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) transmitter
    facility, Gakona, Alaska, successfully produced a sustained high density
    plasma cloud in Earth’s upper atmosphere.
    “Previous artificial plasma density clouds have lifetimes of only
    ten minutes or less,” said Paul Bernhardt, Ph.D., NRL Space Use and
    Plasma Section. “This higher density plasma ‘ball’ was sustained over
    one hour by the HAARP transmissions and was extinguished only after
    termination of the HAARP radio beam.”
    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-02/nrl-nsp022513.php

    • GreenWin

      Purpose of all this is???

      • georgehants

        Ha, don’t ask me.

      • Peter Roe
        • GreenWin

          thanks Peter. Looks like a possible weapon to distort the earth’s magnetic field to dispose of propulsion utilizing those fields. And the artificial ionosphere mirror could replace in situ listening devices. Of course screwing up the magnetosphere may allow high energy cosmic radiation to raise all kinda hell on earth. Like a kid with a Stinger missile.

          • Peter Roe

            Yes, the HAARP arrays (there seem to be many others in addition to the Alaska installation, and other related systems with similar purposes) seem to serve a number of purposes – none of them for the benefit of you or me. The technology even seems to be tied to my own particular bugbear – the aerosol geoengineering or ‘chemtrailing’ I can watch going on overhead 1-3 days a week during the summer months.

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            During a normal geomagnetic storm, more than a terawatt of electric power can flow through the magnetosphere. Thus, creating harmful induced currents in earthly cables by energising the magnetosphere artificially is energetically unfeasible.

            By exploding enough nukes in space one might fill the inner magnetosphere by high energy particles to such an extent that most satellites would be killed by radiation within some days or weeks. Nuclear explosions in space were tested several times, the last and best documented in 1962 (Starfish Prime).

      • Peter Roe

        “Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the weather by 2025″ – US DOD

        http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf

  • Peter Roe

    50 years will be a long time in 21st century technological evolution. If we can shake off the fake economic restraints invented by parasitic banksters we’ll probably have energy technologies that make LENR look like Savery’s ‘fire engine’.

    “One day man will connect his apparatus to the very wheel work of the universe …” – Nikola Tesla.

  • Chris the 2nd

    I don’t expect the majority of our energy to come from LENR but it could provide the base load and the night time load, although graphene super capacitors mentioned a couple of articles back may change that story. If a commerical application is possible I can can easily foresee LENR providing a lot of our heating, powering trains, space vehicles etc but I fully expect the main day time power requirements for most of us to come instead from solar. The cost keeps coming down and it will under cut fossil fuels within a decade (already has in sunny places) and it seems to be on a curve very similar to that which computing power undergoes so I can foresee if under cutting even lenr level costs, and very soon that magical material graphene will allow for transparent Solar Panels indistinguishable from glass. We already have massive glass buildings, imagine now the entire south facing side of those buildings generating electricity. Then multiply that across a whole city. Then add the roof space.

    Distributed grids are definitely the future, it’s too early to call what role LENR will really play in that though.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      A solar panel cannot be completely transparent, otherwise it produces no power. It must kill some photons to turn them into electricity.

      • Chris the 2nd

        Ah but I didn’t say completely transparent did I?

        I should have said indistinguishable from tinted (in bold) glass, which is what most office buildings use, but that doesn’t sound as exciting

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Ok, you said it now. In any case, increased transparency decreases power (V. Putin, private communication).

          • Chris the 2nd

            Very true, but currently solar power is following the same Moores law curve as computing. Efficiency is only going to go up as costs go down and long may it continue.

            Even if you need to cover every south facing side in every city, due to the inherent lower efficiency of transparent panels, at some point costs should become low enough that this will also be cost effective to do so and you would get useable power through sheer volume.

            There is even a version of this which you can paint onto any surface. You need not even replace your existing windows. The potential is there for quick deployment via this method.

            And there is nothing to say that you can’t still use opaque solar on roof tops etc and concentrated solar in a power plant setup.

            Smart distributed grids are the future. Solar will be but a part, and I can’t see how it isn’t an important one.

            • Pekka Janhunen

              In any case I have always thought that among renewables, solar is the one which has real potential in the global scale. However, one shouldn’t count only on it globally. Large volcanic eruptions cause widespread haze and cloudy skies as happened in 1816. Those events tend to disrupt food supply which is bad, but it’s worse if it’s coupled with energy crisis. LENR doesn’t have that kind of environment related vulnerabilities.

            • GreenWin

              Today’s commercially available PV modules have efficiency ranging anywhere from 6 to 21%: see the list of the most efficient solar panels. In practice output drops rapidly without direct light, cloud, night, and from dirt. Check the panels on top of parking meters – almost always filthy.

            • AlainCo

              efficiency is limited by physics. it is a logistic law.
              moore might be possible about price reduction, but power and efficiency are limited, like is Carnot Cycle.

  • AlainCo

    It is long time since I think about the LENR transition…

    At long term I don’t see any energy that can compete with LENR…

    for the transition, my opinion is that only old and cheap energy, asking for no investment will be accepted. Nobody will accept to invest 20 year for a solar panel, a wind-generator, for a shale gas pit, for an offshore platform, for a new generation nuclear reactor. Classic oil, coal, existing nuclear, hydroelectricity, will make the transition…
    If it is not enough, people will invest in LENR more quickly…

    LENR is really too cheap not to capture all market.

    we will need nuclear reactor (fast neutron, or accelerator driven) to incinerate radioactive waste, but not for power (yet it can produce energy, by the way)…

    The only place where LENR might not win is where intense power, and low weight are required yet low autonomy is acceptable… Typical for rocket, and at the beginning for plane and vehicles…

    This is a place where you could find liquid hydrogen and oxygen (for rockets), rocket fuel, and more simply alcohol, kerosene, gasoline, and gas-oil… but it is not to be used as energy source, but just as vector, like hydrogen, electricity…

    so in fact if we stop digging oil, we might still need some for rockets and toy engines, and it will maybe be cheaper to synthesize it like a chemical product from sugar, vegetable oil, wastes…

    out of energy, oil will be needed for plastic and other chemical, and depending on the price of extraction, when extraction will be rare, it will be synthesized from classic oil, shale gaz, bio-fuel…

    • http://www.facebook.com/roger.bird.710 Roger Bird

      There may be extremely specialized, isolated, and small reasons for solar, like solar powered watches.

      • AlainCo

        good point.
        Dam will still be very usefull, and their electricity might still be used in some case.

  • buffalo

    hydrogen from seawater will probably be much more used 50yrs frm nw as electrolysis tech becomes more efficient.

    • Peter Roe

      Burning things – even electrolysed hydrogen – is essentially 19th/20th century tech. Even fuel cells are a halfway house, although the technology may be a part of the bridge away from the use of fire in various forms. We need to look at far more fundamental forces for our future energy.

  • Gerrit

    Other – incineration of pseudo skeptics

    • AlainCo

      the peak will be quickly reached. few month…

      with some luck you will have a fat tail of flat-earther, and some Amish..

      • Peter Roe

        Flat Earthers and the Amish are harmless. How about investment bankers instead?

        • AlainCo

          they will believe quickly, and some do already.

    • Peter Roe

      They might give off dioxins and other nasties. Probably a small price to pay though…

    • Robyn Wyrick

      Really, there is nothing at all wrong with being skeptical about LENR.

      The claim is we make about LENR is that:

      1 – there is a near-limitless energy source

      2 – for which there is no clear explanation in physics

      3 – there have been hundreds of successful demonstrations,

      4 – but solid verifications are hard to come by even by MFMP, which is putting everything out there and above board.

      5 – AND though Toyota, Shell, NASA, MIT, etc. are all moving toward *something* that will wildly redefine the global energy market, AND though many like Rossi say they’re weeks or months away from going live, there are zero commercial products – nobody has rushed to be first to market.

      It’s not an easy case to make. Can LENR be scaled? Are there unknown (or unreported) weaknesses inherent? What is the probable COP?

      I’ve been following green energy for thirty years, and I think Cold Fusion is a real phenomenum . I even think Rossi is the real deal. But I have heard so many hopeful strategies fall short, it seems reasonable to be cautious about claims, and right of us to support people expressing them.

      • Robyn Wyrick

        Sorry – I meant “phenomenon”

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I see no reason why it wouldn’t be scalable (small reactor, prototypes built by small teams, made of common elements). Unknown unknowns could always happen. Personally, I would also like to understand the physics better before considering it safe and recommending it for widespread use. I mean that we should at least know the reacting elements and reaction products, verify their consistency with the energy produced and have some tentative models for the core process which look somewhat plausible or at least not impossible to the majority of physicists.

        • Omega Z

          Hence, A Valid reason for the Home E-cat not being available in the short term.

          Requires a couple years of real time operational data to verify that it truly is safe or at least what measures are required to make it safe for the average consumer.

          A Possible side benefit to this delay is that the 1st consumer version may be More Advanced, Functional, & Economical then Rossi’s current version.

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            Yes, all is fine as long as Rossi has everything he needs (lab, partners, etc.) to push his technology forward. Holds to other LENR develops too.

            Rossi might already have answers to my questions above, but he needs to publish them at some point and physicists must absorb and debate them.

      • Gerrit

        Sure Robyn, but I was not talking about healthy skepticism.

        Pseudo skepticism has these characteristics as defined by Truzzi:

        1. Denying, when only doubt has been established
        2. Double standards in the application of criticism
        3. The tendency to discredit rather than investigate
        4. Presenting insufficient evidence or proof
        5. Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof
        6. Making unsubstantiated counter-claims
        7. Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence
        8. Suggesting that unconvincing evidence provides grounds for completely dismissing a claim

        • AlainCo

          nice summary. It remind me something. And to be carefull too.
          There might be the mirror equivalent, as believer.

      • http://www.facebook.com/roger.bird.710 Roger Bird

        Dear Robyn, everything that you say about skeptics makes perfect sense. Bless the hearts of those who force us to think through the evidence. We label some people as patho-skeptics not because they don’t believe. We call some people patho-skeptics because they refuse to LOOK at the evidence, and we have had plenty of those here, like Craig Binns, maryyugo, et. al.

    • http://www.facebook.com/roger.bird.710 Roger Bird

      It’s not pseudo-skeptics. It is patho-skeptics. A pseudo-skeptic would be someone who was pretending to be a skeptic. Like a pseudo-environmentalist, someone like Al Gore who flies around in a big jet and gives speeches about how we all have to cut back.

      • GreenWin

        Algore could not possibly do as much good should he have to walk from speech to speech. But he might lose some weight, and save enough $ to buy a 4th house!

  • Curbina

    I voted “other” because I’m afraid we (as species) won’t be around in 50 years, given the current trends. I had hopes of something appearing before it was too late, but it seems that it did not happen. LENR was one of the candidates, but here we are stuck discussing about it.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Wiping all isn’t easy, still, peak civilisation would be bad enough and I agree that present trends are pointing into that direction.

    • Chris the 2nd

      If I could get everyone to watch Peter Diamandis speak, or read his book Abundance I would.

      His presentations and that book make me feel so much better about the future than I did just a few years ago.

    • http://www.facebook.com/roger.bird.710 Roger Bird

      Hysteria and anxiety must be a terrible burden.

      • GreenWin

        For some, it is an elixir. Those slavishly believing, ‘there is not enough.’