Statement from George Miley

I thought I would make a separate post of a comment just received from George Miley addressed to us here at ECW.

Mr Acland, moderators, and readers; I appreciate the coverage provided to the ARPA-E Future Energy program and my LENR 10kw Thermal Electric Generator entry. While the fruits of this somewhat unusual and novel public voting process remain to be determined, ARPA-E does have possibility of being helpful to new and emerging game-changing energy technologies. I was delighted to see in the category of “recent entries” in the competition this blog’s readership contributed to a landslide win.

George Miley

  • Barry

    Wanting to learn more I found an article Ruby Carat put together last April about GM’s endeavors. Great read.
    (Hi Frank, are we without a spellcheck now. I have a hard enough time trying to not sound like an idiot with one.)

  • georgehants

    From Nano
    Surprising breakthrough could bolster quantum photonics, solar cell efficiency.
    Scientists from the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable
    Energy Laboratory and other labs have demonstrated a process whereby
    quantum dots can self-assemble at optimal locations in nanowires, a
    breakthrough that could improve solar cells, quantum computing, and
    lighting devices.
    Quantum dots are tiny crystals of semiconductor a few billionths of a
    meter in diameter. At that size they exhibit beneficial behaviors of
    quantum physics such as forming electron-hole pairs and harvesting
    excess energy.

  • cx

    does any1 know what the final vote number was.

    • artefact

      I think there were 370 or 371 votes

  • Leo Kaas AKA Drago Fredda

    China claims successful test of Microwave Relativity engine. “Researchers in China say that the engine requires no propellant and produces no exhaust. It’s called the EmDrive, and it’s able to convert microwave energy directly into thrust inside a sealed
    chamber. Oh, it’s totally silent and highly efficient, too. If it seems too good
    to be true, well, you’re not the only one who feels that way.”

    I read about this in New Scientist in 2006 and made Google alert waiting for confirmation. Apparently no one believed Roger Shawyer when he announced his invention The Em Drive either. That sounds a little familiar?
    What could you do with two devices that are too good to be true?

  • clovis

    thanks, frank,
    Nice of Dr.miley, to take time to email us back, he seem like a good guy ,

  • georgehants

    “I’d rather be an optimist and a fool than a pessimist and right.”

    Albert Einstein

  • Robyn Wyrick

    I just heard this morning that the Pope is retiring at the end of the month.

    What are the chances that this has to do with the anticipated third party release of the Hot-Cat test?

    Have you ever noticed that you never see Rossi and the Pope in the same place?

    Makes you think huh?


    • Peter Roe

      I think you could be onto something. Now you mention it, it’s so obvious. We’ve all been so blind…

    • John Littlemist

      Yes, but think about last weekend, the Chinese new year took place. And guess what year it is now in the Chinese calendar? It is the year of the SNAKE! Doesn’t look too good for Rossi!

    • GreeWin

      And the walls came tumbling down.

    • John Littlemist

      Your astounding lack of humor makes me want to laugh!

  • GreenWin

    This is a BIG win IMO, simply because the community rose to support Dr. Miley with only one day notice. Had there been a week’s notice, he would have tripled his landslide.

    However, Dr. Miley’s project is designed for a specific application, to replace NASA’s inefficient RPG (radioisotope power gen) using PU238, with non-radioactive LENR plus some kind of T -> e conversion. Be it mechanical (Stirling, acoustic Stirling) piezo, or thermocouple, etc. – it will eliminate the need to make highly volatile PU238.

    March is shaping up as a significant month for various LENR projects. With Dr. Miley’s success in the ARPA-e “competition” – we see one more baby step by government to acknowledge LENR as a viable, new form of nuclear energy. The DOE Secretary, (ARPA’s boss) Steve Chu has just resigned, providing opportunity for Obama Admin to appoint a new Secretary who will NOT dismiss disruptive new energy alternatives out of hand. Someone with business, entrepreneurial experience would be far better than another scientist at this stage.

    • please read miley’s proposal. he explicitly states “One prong is to manufacture small to medium range distributed power
      sources for home and industrial use. The second prong is to provide
      develop the technology for use by in Army bases, both homeland and in
      forward facilities, for a main power source.”

      the plutonium battery replacement was his second to last project and not related (least of all because there isn’t any air you could fan through a reactor in a space probe)

      • GreenWin

        Thanks Yamali. Looks like Lenuco, is spreading bets on various applications. As we have seen with Rossi/Focardi – building home CHP systems will likely run aground on safety certification – thus their re-focus on industrial 1MW+ systems to accumulate safe operation data. Dr. Miley will find the same resistance for domestic LENR/CHP at this stage. Though less so if DOE / Shell (ARPA-e sponsor) get behind it.

        • i heard the argument about accumulating operation data in industrial application as a requirement for domestic certification before and don’t know what to make of it. i couldn’t find anything like that in any of ul’s or tüv’s guidelines for certification nor in the eu laws or anywhere else. they all state specific requirements for certification and don’t distinguish between industrial and domestic, as far as i can see. there seems to be nothing in any certification requiring you to be an industrial entity, let alone a requirement stating that the device in question has to have an installed base and data from running for any time in an industrial entity. according to the certification requirements i’ve seen, a product either makes the cut (or doesn’t) solely based on its properties at the time of certification.

          • GreenWin

            Home refrigeration, microwave, electric heat, have all gone through typical product development in industrial, military applications before even applying for domestic use certification. A certification company approving a new domestic appliance (especially one having no agreed theory of operation) without prior safety record – opens themselves to injurious liability. That’s plain common sense.

            • yamal

              i don’t see how the liability issue is any different in industrial applications. besides – if this is so obvious (despite nothing of it rooted in any guideline or law) then why was rossi not prepared for going that route from the outset and collected preorders for domestic heaters instead?

              • GreenWin

                Again yamal, common sense. Ask any litigator, ‘You want defend an industrial fire that destroyed property, or a residential fire that killed a mother and two kids?’ Common sense.

                • there is no difference. my employer was sued for over 50 million because they didn’t print the safety instructions in spanish on one of their high voltage exposure machines and two unfortunate mexican workers were killed in an accident. a whole line of managers lost their jobs and are now personally hold liable. and let me ask again. if this is really so obvious, then why didn’t rossi take that route from the beginning?

                  btw. a quick browse through the archives here and on ecatnews shows, that you yourself didn’t find anything contradicting common sense at the time rossi and defkalion announced their domestic units. there was no outcry from you stating that common sense dictates gathering data in industrial applications first. you rather talked about how wonderfully the domestic ecat will soon fit in with current CHP subsidy programs. so don’t play this as if it was a no-brainer. it only suddenly became ‘common sense’ to you once rossi said so. and it still just isn’t.

                • GreenWin

                  yamali, I can see you enjoy a combative temperament and I shall leave you be. I do not come here to argue minutia with skeptics, but to follow the remarkable disclosure of LENR, a new source of clean, green, abundant energy (NASA’s language.) Eventually you might do the same.

                  “Time makes more converts than reason.” Thomas Paine, Common Sense

    • GreenWin

      BTW, at the ARPA-e site this fascinating video on Sheetak solid state cooling / power devices turned up. Combined with a thermal source for heat engine electric, this may be a match for LENR.

      • Barry

        Not Cold Fusion, but Cold Fridging. Good find GreenWin.

  • Curbina

    I’m truly happy that this resulted in a win. I had doubts about it being helpfull. How about now to feature the White House petition for a thorough research of LENR by the DoE en in the USA???

  • Gedo

    I want to be clear and honest with you , I consider all these discussions regarding the Cold Fusion issue absolute myth’s unless if i will be able to see a working Cold Fusion device in my basement in one year time – I am 78 years old grand father and I have no much time to wait .

    • Ramsy

      You will see Gedo, Just you need to believe.

      • GreenWin

        Or simply lieve.

    • Peter Roe

      Gedo, I think that everyone here knows that you are a 78 year old grandfather by now. What is less clear is why you keep saying much the same thing.

      There will not be a cold fusion reactor in your basement this time next year even under the most optimistic scenario, and I’m reasonably sure that the date that such devices eventually do become available will not be affected significantly by your life expectancy. If that means that you consider discussions here to be ‘absolute myths’ then please feel free not to add to them. Many of us are impatient but most of us are aware that whinging about it will not make any difference at all to how things will pan out.

      • GreenWin

        Peter, you catch the whiff of T ro11 here? Like wood turning to stone, there is the scent of gary-fication in the air.

        • Peter Roe

          GW – I have to admit that this is my suspicion when people keep repeating the same pointless mantras, but let’s give Gedo the benefit of the doubt and just assume age-related cognition and recall problems. Comes to us all.

    • John

      Gedo, why you want to see a reactor in your basement before you pass away ? Are you planning to take it with you ?

    • Gerrit

      Bye bye Gedo, there is nothing we can do for you here.

      If you really want to speed things up you should write a letter to your congressman or senator and demand that they put such a device in your basement. They will probably have a lot of sympathy for your woes.

      Good luck, your grandchildren will thank you for it.

  • Nixter

    I’m certain that, if, (when?), Rossi demonstrates that his LENR technology works, the world wide floodgates of research funding will quickly swing open wide. Anyone with the necessary knowledge in the sector will suddenly become subjects of renewed interest to Governments, Universities and Research institutions. Especially those looking to capitalize on the new science. Getting a reputation now as being current in the field, is more important than it ever has been, to guarantee being included in the coming funding flood. Getting funding will be easy, More difficult will be, where to find knowledgeable personnel to work on developing the tech with minimum patent and licensing problems?

    • Peter Roe

      It would be nice to think that those academics and researchers who have impeded (or attempted to impede) CF research will be identified and excluded from participating, but I for one lost faith in any kind of natural justice of that kind a very long time ago.

      • GreenWin

        Peter, many of the original deniers are retired or ready to be. Huizenga will hide behind his checkered past and advanced age to avoid ever apologizing – or admitting wrong. In keeping with Max Plank, the old school will die and the new replace them.

      • Gerrit

        oh “excluded” my freudian mind read “executed” 🙂

        • Krish

          What a coincidence! I made the same mistake on first read & went on to re-read it as “excluded.”

  • georgehants

    Perhaps they will be clever enough to put a thermometer on this one as the last has been up for 40 years and apparently could not measure any increase in temperatures.

    NASA Launching Powerful Landsat Earth-Observation Satellite Today
    latest Earth-observation satellite is set to blast off today (Feb. 11),
    continuing a venerable program that has been monitoring environmental
    change and resource use for more than four decades.

  • georgehants

    BBC removes climate claim from repeated final Africa episode
    Part of Sir David Attenborough’s narration is cut after an earlier assertion that the continent was warming by 3.5C
    The BBC removed part of Sir David Attenborough’s narration in the final episode of its flagship nature documentary Africa after it acknowledged it contained a mistaken claim about climate change.

    • Peter Roe

      People like Attenborough are so committed to the NWO depopulation cause that they seem to think that their end justifies any means. He rather let his agenda slip quite recently:

      • GreenWin

        This has long been NWO Agenda 21 – basically, kill humans, to make way for the elite, deserving humans. This is FEAR based on an infection of lack – there is not enough. An idea belied by simply looking up, at a consensus-confirmed infinite universe.

        • Peter Roe

          Doesn’t stop them trying though – in all sorts of nasty little ways (and a couple of bigger ones).

      • georgehants

        I heard a rumour that a group of climate scientists where just sending off their paper showing GW had increased sea hight by four meters in the last three months when the tea lady pointed out that that they could be measuring the top of the waves on a stormy day.

        • Peter Roe

          What other data is worth having!! Take the bit you like, delete or ‘adjust’ the rest. Standard procedure.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Some recent things that haven’t been discussed yet:
    – Defkalion writes on their new website “We are ready to accept in our laboratory, by 1st March, interested companies requesting to conduct common R&D on applications of our technology.”
    – On JONP we are told (partly thanks to Admin’s questions) that the HotCat module is at stable design level up to 600 C, it currently takes 5 man hours to make, and with their current subcontractors they could produce thousands per day (i.e. over 3 GW per year thermal).

    • 3 gw thermal per year sounds like a ridiculously small amount. how much is china alone installing every single day? probably a lot more than that. for rossi to have any impact, there would have to be at least a thousand fold increase by him and/or whoever is subcontracting or oem-ing this stuff (if it exists, which i find increasingly hard to believe) .

      • Pekka Janhunen

        World total energy consumption is 14 TW (2003) and total electricity consumption 1.9 TW (2005). With thousandfold increase (3 TW/year thermal, 1 TW/year electric) he could already replace world’s electricity production in two years.
        From 2009 to 2010 China installed (360 TWh) 41 GWel of new coal-based electricity production, or 112 MWel per day (source:wikipedia).

        • AlainCo

          this is why there should be many builders and non centralised planning… of course inventors and designers shoul earn their live, but keeping the control on the building is crazy.

          note that my computation is that with 6 month of GDP you can replace all energy. of course it is more complicated, but since energy is 10%, in 5 years, and letting all entrepreneur jump on the bandwagon, you can expect that the transition will be mostly done.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            In any case, even without Rossi’s estimate of thousands of units per day with current network, if the HotCat is a simple electromechanical device made of common elements, one would expect its production to be straightforwardly scalable to any desired level.

        • thanks. so i was off by about one order of magnitude and rossi’s currently planned 3gw thermal per year production would cover china’s growth for about 10 days. he would definitely have to scale up significantly which, i agree, shouldn’t be a problem in terms of production itself or raw materials (provided some steel and nickel is really all he needs and the unknown catalyzer isn’t some freakish unobtanium isotope or unicorn blood).

      • Peter Roe

        EDF (Electricite de France) is currently planning to build the UK’s largest fission power station near where I live. It’s a twin BWR which will produce just over 3.2 GW at a cost of over £10 billion, and might be finished by 2020 if nothing else goes wrong. British taxpayers and consumers will of course be footing the entire cost for at least a generation.

        Rossi is saying that with just the current line-up of contractors and subcontractors available, that in one year he can build plant with comparable output but none of the costs of refining and handling uranium and plutonium, and none of the clean-up costs (estimated at another £10 billion minimum for the life of the Hinkley Point station). Obviously the production force can be multiplied indefinitely when profits are being made, reducing the cost even more (perhaps massively).

        Which sounds like the better deal to you, Yamali Yamali?

        • Pekka Janhunen

          In Finland the French Areva is also building a new plant, Olkluoto-3 EPR reactor, 1.6 GWel. Today they announced that the starting date which has been pushed forward many times was again pushed by 2 years,now to 2016. It’s interesting to see if they will start it up. With this new delay, I would predict not.

  • georgehants

    Are We Teaching Citizens or Automatons?

  • georgehants

    Very good that Cold Fusion came out well, would I be wrong to think that a little recognition and funding from the science administration may well lead to a much wider recognition and far more research.

  • MasterBlaster7

    We are Legion 😀

    • artefact

      expect us!

  • LCD

    A good day. Dr. Miley should know that the LENR community has his back.

    • it doesn’t. edmund storms wrote on vortex:

      ‘Well said James. We have three other companies claiming to have
      commercial generators of power. Each of these claims is based on
      dubious demonstrations. What is the Miley claim based on? Can we
      expect his claim to be debated and examined in the way the Rossi claim
      has experienced? Just where does the Miley claim fall in the process
      of competing claims for a practical device. What reason does anyone
      have to vote for his claim? I think these questions must be examined
      before we all get excited.’

      and later:

      ‘He is claiming a
      working generator. If this idea is based on pure PR or it fails, your
      vote will look foolish. I think we agree, knowing how and whether the
      fusion process works should proceed claiming a working generator.
      Miley has not done this. He has a theory that makes no sense and
      claims for heat production that have not been replicated or checked by
      anyone. Are we seeing another Rossi in the making?’

      • Gerrit

        of course it does !

        Within the group of researchers there are multiple theoretical proposals to explain the phenomenon. Every scientist will see his own proposal as the only valid one. Edmund Storms is doubting that George Miley’s theory works and that Miley’s generator has been verified. That is his good right. Storms is very wary that another not-yet-verified LENR device will be picked up by the news which will reinforce the prejudice against cold fusion as “tomorrow’s jam”

        To me it seems Storms wants to have the scientific puzzle solved first and then let the engineers work on a practical solution, whereas Miley thinks his LENR generator has a good chance of becoming a commercial viable device.

        So who has the right approach ? It think most of the LENR community members will say “all of the above”.

        Personally I really don’t care how we get there, I just want to see the stubborn “cold fusion is a hoax” misconception eradicated from public understanding. And step by step, with every little bit of news coverage the perception is being changed.

        2013 has already been a very interesting year so far. The LENR community is growing and we become more and more capable of telling people the real story of cold fusion. This year the ICCF-18 will be in the USA and we can expect many more opportunities to bring the topic into the spotlight.

        • i imagine storms would agree with that. what i think he is afraid of is the backlash the field would take from disappointment. if it turns out that miley doesn’t have the goods, his proposal will only strengthen the conception of the whole cold fusion field being bogus. supporting supposedly working devices from rossi, defkalion and now miley will have terrible consequences for cold fusion if all of them turn out not to work. it would firmly bury the field for at least another two decades before anybody in the mainstream would be prepared to listen again.

  • Krish

    Congratulations Dr. Miley ! Kindly keep us posted with the progress of your project.

  • Wow! We won! Congratulations, Dr. Miley!

  • Bruce Fast

    I would love to hear exactly where Dr. Miley is with his device. Does he have a working prototype that looks like the diagrams in the contest? Whether they present his technology or not, he should be able to present his technology to the world. I’d be happy enough if Dr. Miley, rather than Eng. Rossi broke through the noise and got LENR onto the map.

  • Neil Taylor

    Good luck Dr. Miley as you now know a lot of folks are pulling for your project’s success!

  • Daniel Maris

    Great news! Well done to all who voted. Let’s hope George’s project justifies the support. I am interested that his technology is nanopowder. (I am a bit concerned people are messing around with wires when they should be working with nanopowders).

  • Gerrit

    This message makes me happy.

    Maybe George Miley could also give us a little info about his project’s status.

    I think the landslide win was because the whole LENR social network participated: ECW, coldfusionnow, quantumheat, vortex-l, facebook.

    It was the first joint action. If we would get more organized and work together to get the message out to other interest groups, maybe on a next occasion we could get #1 position.