A Few Snippets

While there hasn’t been a terrific amount of news in E-Cat land, from the Rossi blog there have been a few snippets of information that are worth mentioning, I think.

Rossi no longer appears to be in total charge of his invention and business activity. He had said earlier this month that he hoped to post some pictures and video, but recently explained that he was “not allowed” to post anything until the 3rd party report is published.

He also said that he now holds the position of “Chief Scientific Officer”, not CEO of Leonardo as he has previously titled himself. It’s not clear what the status of Leonardo Corporation is anymore.

He’s apparently now in Miami, Florida working through the holidays (not New Bedford, MA!). Sometimes his humor is not easily recognized.

Rossi has made a couple of comments indicating that there is a chance that the 3rd party report may not make it into a peer reviewed scientific magazine — and he said that if it doesn’t pass the peer review it will be published on Arxiv.org, an open source repository of papers in math and science hosted at Cornell University.

I check every once in a while on the number of views that the SVT program on the E-Cat is getting, and I’ve noticed there is a steady increase (3600) at last count. If anyone asks me for a summary of what the E-Cat is all about, I am now referring them to that video as an introduction to the topic. I think there are others doing the same.

  • DDearborn

    Hmmm

    The king is dead long live the king. Clealy E-CAT will not see the light of day. At least not for a long time. It is just one more in a long line of inventions and technological breakthru’s that would have freed the common man. So back in the box it went. And even if it was a hoax the elite need to reinforce the idea that no matter what happens fossil fuel domination will not be threatened. Say good night people. Its over, nothing to see here. Move along………

  • Chris

    Publishing on Cornell’s arxive is originally the modern way of making what are traditionally called pre-prints. These are issued while the peer review process is under way. That is how it goes, according to custom.

    There is not a single reason for the group that is in the course of publication to use arxive only as a last resort. If they want it published, they typically get a pre-print out while the refereees are examining it, or at least once they don’t fear a revision might be required by the editor.

    Yes Rossi’s humour doesn’t always come across when he’s talking in English. :-]

  • Anonymous

    “Rossi no longer appears to be in total charge of his invention and business activity. He had said earlier this month that he hoped to post some pictures and video, but recently explained that he was “not allowed” to post anything until the 3rd party report is published. ”

    Any professional VC investor, as a condition of the investment, would not allow Rossi to post anything at all, and instead would issue regular press releases from a professional PR firm to improve the image of the new “ECAT Company”. This tells me that Rossi does not have a substantial investor as “ECAT Company” cannot afford a PR firm or press agent. I will wait until the END of March to see if anything real comes of ECAT. I am still hoping by increasingly skeptical.

    • Garry

      No– not necessarily. I understand your point, but Rossi has hinted enough that he has the money to carry on.

      A “professional VC” would not necessarily need a PR firm now. Maybe they are letting Rossi be himself– keeping the buzz on. Most “professional VCs” would take it stealth normally until they are ready. Rossi did not really have that option given how many people are following him. So this level of “quiet” is all they can manage right now.

      My opinion is that this has been invested in by either the military through a front operation or a well funded “VC arm” of a large corporation (Seimans, GE, etc. all have them). Meanwhile, they await real validation (perhaps tied to a milestone or deliverable) so they can take it public in a more responsible manner (avoid a Pons and Fleishman effect)– and meanwhile keep the competition cooler. Moment this comes out big time there will a thousand and one “wannabe” competitors. And every 2-bit “free energy” story will be chased by the more conventional VCs (remember “I”-companies & social media?). Real VCs are almost always followers– not leaders.

      Also, I’ve seen lots of company founders moved aside from CEO to CSO or CTO. Any responsible investor will bring in a CEO to manage the growth, pitch the story, build the executive team, business relationships etc. If Rossi plays his cards right he stays but in the long run his control depends on whether he saved a large enough share of the company for himself in negotiations (re Mark Zuckerberg).

      Just my opinion while we are all speculating.

      Garry

  • Roger Bird

    I know that con artists are very clever, but it seems beyond believeable for Rossi to imply or hint that he is not in control of his business if he were a con. It is what we would call in-credible, not believeable. His admitting or implying that someone else is controlling his business is soft or social evidence that he is for real. No con would ever do that.

    • Garry

      Super point.

      • Chris

        Actually, it is not a good point at all.

        Being a great con artist does not mean following the “Con Art Handbook” at all, actually such a technique would simply make it easier for the diligent to see through. The very method for deceiving is to catch people off guard, doing what you expect the authentic to do and not doing what you expect the fraud to do. From the moment something is included in the radar od the diligent, the cleverest frauds are the ones who devise the counter-strategy for it. This goes for “No con would ever do that.” equally well, it is a good reason for a con to do it.

        It’s just like many games; chess, espionage, war, cryptography etc.

        In the end, what counts for those who aren’t eye witnesses is knowing at least about witnesses who are reliable, or similar cues such as well known establishments who take it seriously. What we have first is the work of others on Ni-H with no secrets, even where it is only of lab relevance, against the objections of those who have said it’s altogether impossible. What remains is the quantitative aspect of Rossi’s claims.

        • Roger Bird

          Chris, you made many good points, so my only comment is that although Rossi had trouble with (a corrupt) law in the past, he does not have a history of sophisticated con-artistry. The man is over 60 years old. Guys don’t start molesting children at 60. Con-artistry is an art. You don’t start being an artist at age 60.

          • Chris

            I agree that he was not a deliberate fraud in the Petroldragon story, but that is a highly complicated, controversial matter, he definitely made mistakes and the stuff he was producing turned out to be worthless. He claimed to have improved an already tried idea (thermal depolymerization) to the point of making it marketwise effective. He had obtained a lot of support from authorities, from ENI and customers etc. but in the end the whole thing failed. He puts a lot of blame for his troubles on corrupt officials but there are alternative opinions on that. Others in the USA, since then, have been claiming good results.

            Neither do I think he has turmed into a con artist, indeed I have often said (and hope too) that he appears to have learnt a lot from his past mistakes, but the analogy with child molesting is pointless because that has causes which hardly come with age. I’m not sure you can rule out a senior citizen becoming a con artist with age and by learning skills. I don’t think he is a con man but I do wish he were less devious in his PR at times. I’m increasingly convinced he will lose his pole position to competitors and alternatives.

  • Jarvis Cooper

    Merry Christmas and a happy cold fusion new year!

    • Barry

      Happy Cold Fusion to you Jarvis!

  • georgehants

    Science at it’s best.
    Our wonderful scientists after much research and qualifications have found that Bumblebees do not do so well if all the landscape is concreted over and unbelievably seem to prefer Natural Flora and Fauna
    What will these geniuses discover next.
    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-12/uota-bdb121912.php

    • Hadamhiram

      More anti-science nonsense from Georgehants. Science cured polio, keeps the teeth from rotting ut of your head, gave us electricity and artificial light, and put men on the moon. Anyone who doubts or talks down on science is either an ignoramus, a fool, or insane. Which is Georgehants, I wonder.

      • georgehants

        Haamhiram, thank you, you sound like one of the “scientists” I am talking about.

  • http://movitr.com Artem

    Hi, guys. We can translate Rossi conferences here http://movitr.com/group/90

  • Ged

    I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas tomorrow!

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    December 24th, 2012 at 10:17 AM
    Dear Stefano:
    You understood right.
    I hope to be ready to start in February and to have in consolidated operation the plant in April.
    Same Wishes to you,
    Andrea Rossi

    • Fibb

      link please

    • captain

      Hi geaorge, Merry Holy Xmas to U and all visitors of this blog :-)

      I’m awaiting warmly the day when the 1st 1MW hot plant will be operational and producing electric energy. The sooner, the better!
      Cause we’ll be that day extremely grateful to Rossi, to the Italian CF-LENR science and the UniBO :-))

      One day U’ll know why…!

    • captain

      Hi george, Merry Holy Xmas to U and all visitors of this blog :-)

      I’m awaiting warmly the day when the 1st 1MW hot plant will be operational and producing electric energy. The sooner, the better!
      Cause we’ll be that day extremely grateful to Rossi, to the Italian CF-LENR science and the UniBO :-))

      One day U’ll know why…!

    • Stephen

      Oh that’s good: February ok… but which year?
      And what universe?

      Just to be sure…

    • Wally Palo

      “Yes, Leonardo Corp is very much powerful now. I can already say that the first 1 MW hot cat will go in operation within February 2013.”

      Looks like the above estimate was too optimistic. Sounds like he won’t even start until February, with operation 2 or 3 months later.

      • Peter_Roe

        Rossi always seems to expect things to crash ahead at his own breakneck speed, and his estimates of landmark dates are probably based on this. Unfortunately, as the number of people involved increases, the closer the pace will approach industry norms. Project managers and other employees will be rather less prepared to work 7 days a week – and into the nights if necessary – as Rossi typically seems to be.

        I think we’ve more or less finished with the phase where we ‘observers’ were kept informed to some extent, and so could all feel involved in a small way. This is now a corporate roll-out and information flow will be increasingly tightly managed. In fact, if the new owners become nervous about Rossi’s blog, we should not be too surprised if this source of information dries up soon. While AR may feel some obligation to keep his supporters informed, Leonardo Corp – no matter who now owns it – will not.

  • Alexvs

    Merry X-mas for everyone.

  • Ramsy

    Well, Cold Fusion is not a big secret any more , here you can do your own Cold Fusion experiments at you home’s garage:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEceEHgaXoU

    • Zaghlool

      I can see another brilliant Cold Fusion scientist from Havana, Cuba.

      • Jacob

        That nice demonstration for the Cold Fusion Phenomena ( same as Celani’s wire cell ) , But Anrea Rossi has the first uesful practical application.

    • racribeiro

      Why do you clame this is cold fusion? This seems to me a normal electrolitic reaction. Above a few undreds volts the result is some “fire” and “plasma”, but wht is it really? I’m sure that it is described and explained somewhere…

  • Ramsy

    Well, Cold Fusion is not a big secret any more , here you can do your own Cold Fusion experiments at you home’s garage:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEceEHgaXoU

  • clovis

    Merry Christmas, everyone,
    More good news,

    Dear Dr. Rossi
    I understand that you are preparing a hotcat with a carnot engine to self produce electric power. i also understand that in this way the cat will go half of the time in self sustaining mode. the other half time eill be alimented by its own electricity. If this is correct: when do you think this prototype will start working? Merry christmas and fruitful new year!

    Andrea Rossi
    December 24th, 2012 at 10:17 AM
    Dear Stefano:
    You understood right.
    I hope to be ready to start in February and to have in consolidated operation the plant in April.
    Same Wishes to you,
    Andrea Rossi

    Now IO have go refresh my memory of the carnot engine,-lol

    • clovis

      Hey, Frank.
      WOW, 2 full paragraphs of warnings. i just copyed and pasted it, fron JONP, I thought it was news worthy,–snile

      • clovis

        sorry captain,
        Cross posted, admin. please delete when ever u like.

      • captain

        Hi Frank, as for clovis, same to me.
        The same mex repeated twice and appearing with 2 paragraphs full of warnings: unable to edit them…

        Warning: Missing argument 2 for wpdb::prepare(), called in /home/myfairmu/public_html/ecatworld/wp-content/plugins/wp-ajax-edit-comments/lib/class.core.php on line 470 and defined in … and much more

        • admin

          Hi Captain — Ok, it’s still happening then. I turned the edit function back on in the hope it would act normally, but apparently not. I’ll look for a different solution. Thanks for letting me know.

  • captain

    Hi Franck, since my post is awaiting moderation, I let U know that I’m not yet allowed to edit and correct my typos…

    BTW, what’s so ‘strange’ in my post for deserving your moderation?
    While my post is missing it’s first paragraph, where I’ve written… from the inventor’s blog… with other words?
    I’d like to know.

    • georgehants

      I think many posts at the moment are held up by technicalities, just a gremlin in the new system, we shall survive.

  • captain

    Stefano
    December 24th, 2012 at 8:31 AM

    Dear Dr. Rossi
    I understand that you are preparing a hotcat with a carnot engine to self produce electric power. i also understand that in this way the cat will go half of the time in self sustaining mode. the other half time eill be alimented by its own electricity. If this is correct: when do you think this prototype will start working? Merry christmas and fruitful new year!
    Andrea Rossi

    From Rossi’s JONP:

    December 24th, 2012 at 10:17 AM

    Dear Stefano:
    You understood right.
    I hope to be ready to start in February and to have in consolidated operation the plant in April.
    Same Wishes to you,
    Andrea Rossi

    Hi Admin, the important is this: as U see, things are going ahead as scheduled, and it’s OK!

    IMO, if Rossi has decided to act in that way, and actually he’s the Chief of Scientists, that decision should have been deemed the best overall.
    When I think what USPTO is making or not making at all… it’s a wise thing to have the 1MW hot plant ASAP operational on the market, and producing electricity also in a SSM. That counts really!

    And if the new technological partner/customer is said to be capable of speeding up the E-Cat hot plants evolution and adequate diffision on the markets, I say only WELCOME!
    Welcome anyway, just to start with an excellent demonstration of what is a real operational CF-LENR device. Hoping that after that, USPTO and ULs will grant patents/certifications belonging to Rossi/Leonardo corp.
    And to see ASAP the 1MW hot plants starting regular production in the states.

  • Curbina

    Thanks for the snippets Frank!. CSO is a good position, but not a executive position, so it seems that Rossi is now a consultant for his own invention. Not very comfortable if one is a conspiracy nuts.

    Now, about the peer reviewed report, well, if indeed the report is not accepted for a peer reviewed journal, then it will be a total waste of time. You know you can read papers in Arxiv.org that, even if they are correct, will probably only be looked with interest in a couple of hundred years more, as they are considered pseudocience. Frequent piblishers in Arxiv.org are anyone whose theories are not deemed worthy of study by mainstream science, like Dr. Chandra Wrickamasinghe, of Panspermia theory, and Mensur Omerbaschich, with his hyper resonator theory of everything. If this happens, no matter how well written and supported the report is, will be a tragedy for E-cat credibility.

    • georgehants

      I think you may find that Mr Rossi has mentioned that nothing is proven until customers pay hard cash for a device and report that it works as claimed.
      Scientific papers, no mater how qualified either negative or positive are subject to human failings and corruption.
      Science must learn only to follow Evidence and Truth and reject all opinion unless it recommends in all cases more research until a very wide consensus is reached on validity or otherwise.
      Or are you suggesting that the negative scientific reports 24 years ago and since on P&F and Cold Fusion where and are accurate and to be believed.

      • georgehants

        Reply awaiting moderation.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      I certainly wouldn’t call it a waste of time to publish the paper in arxiv, in case it’s not accepted in the journal they try. It all depends on what the paper says and who are its authors.

      If the paper is very well written by a reputable team and if their selected journal is Nature or Science, then I would guess that the probability that it gets accepted is 70%. The probability rapidly diminishes if the quality of the paper is not perfect or if the team is not reputable enough. Thus even if they are a perfect team doing a perfect job, acceptance is not certain. So it makes very much sense to have a Plan B with arxiv. It’s a better idea than trying another refereed journal, because that would take time.

      • GreenWin

        The refereed journals have already shown us their stripes when they rejected en mass the Italian ENEA, De Ninno, Rubbia, et al paper, “Report 41.” It is highly doubtful their instructions to reject CF papers has changed.

        But it will make history if they do publish an e-cat report.

      • Omega Z

        Pekka Janhunen

        If they should decide Not to Publish, & instead the report goes to arvix, What happens should Rossi bring the E-cat to market & it preforms as stated.

        Would these papers be re-reviewed or would they need to be re-presented.
        Whats the Criteria in this situation.

        If Rossi has a working product to market, does it even Matter.

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          For a given journal, once a paper is rejected it remains rejected, unless resubmitted in sufficiently different form. By the way, journals other than Nature and Science typically allow for an arxiv preprint. Thus after putting in arxiv one still has an option of submitting the work to a “normal” refereed journal.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Based on the foregoing, I think we’ve reached a point in the advance of LENR where it would be useful for someone to start collecting all the negative comments of the LENR naysayers (and articles by them), from the time of Pons and Fleischmann to the present. These exhibits could occupy “the corner of infamy” in the LENR museum that will be erected in the not-too-distant future, when the transformational truth of the Cold Fusion phenomena becomes clear to all the world. Let none of naysayers escape from the recognition that’s due them for their ignorance and mindless lack of curiosity. It could provide a valuable lesson for future generations.

    Merry Christmas all.

    • artefact

      Speaking of naysayers:

      Peter Gluck wrote an answert to Gary Wright:
      THE ANSWERABLE ANSWER OF GARY TO MY “HYBRID APPROACH” PAPER.

      http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2012/12/the-answerable-answer-of-gary-to-my.html

    • Invy

      No doubt many of the people who claim LENR is bogus are intelligent people. I would prefer we get them to help us to solve the theory and ultimately control the reaction. Rather than turning them against us by enshrining their failure, we should reach out and get the science hammered out.

      Rossi has found a way to engineer a device that exploits the phenomena, but until we have a theory that is verified, who knows what can be achieved.

      While I appreciate the justice inherent in your proposal, it gets us no closer to solving the physics behind LENR, and that is our goal!

      • Fibber McGourlick

        They have exhibted an unscientific lack of curousity. They have retarded the progress of LENR. I doubt they’ll throw themselves into forwarding it at this late date. If they do and if they make a contribution, it will help to redeem their reputation in our museum of naysayers.