World Slow to Adopt Electric Cars

I have hoped for quite a while that internal combustion-powered cars would start to be replaced in a significant way by electric ones, but it seems that for now at least that is not happening. I hadn’t realized just how poorly electric vehicles were performing until I looked at the numbers presented in an article, “Far From Electrifying” by Vaclav Smil on the American web site. He begins:

Exactly two years ago, in November 2010, the Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn assured reporters that his auto alliance would sell half a million electric vehicles a year by the end of 2013. In 2011, it sold just short of 10,000 electrics, but in April 2012 Ghosn still claimed that the 2012 sales would double to 20,000. On November 15, he had to give up and admit that, after selling less than 7,000 vehicles, the 2012 target cannot be reached.

The article continues with other illustrations of how electric vehicle sales and production has been consistently lower than projections across a number of companies, and it states that Toyota abruptly cancelled plans to mass produce the eQ, an all-electric vehicle. Toyota vice chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained the reason behind the decision saying, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars can run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”

Smil states that the main reason behind the failure of the EV to take off is the limitation of lithium-iron battery technolovy, the current choice for electric cars. They are heavy, take a long time to charge, have limited range, and lose performance power in extreme temperatures.

As we consider the possible impact of LENR technology on transportation, it’s not obvious how an E-Cat (or another technology) would be incorporated into a car. Direct thermal to electric conversion could be one approach, but there are efficiency problems with the current state of this technology. Some people suggest the E-Cat could usher in a new generation of steam powered vehicles. Andrea Rossi believes it will be decades before E-Cat cars could be approved by regulators. It could be that cheap LENR-generated electricity will make current electric cars much cheaper to run and therefore increase demand, despite their limitations.

If LENR becomes widely accepted as a superior source of power there will certainly be auto makers that will try to find ways to incorporate it into vehicles — and if that is the case the current slow adoption of electric cars may be just temporary.

  • warp

    A solution to the slow adaptation of electric vehicles is the Electric Conversion.
    Step 1: Find a sizable manual transmission car from the 50′s-70′s (preferably a pickup truck), hide intentions and haggle until you get it for cheap to free.
    Step 2: Identify nearby electric vehicle association, call them to find a nearby specialist in electric vehicle conversion.
    Step 3: Hand over $10,000 for a cheap conversion, or closer to $20,000 for better batteries and control box.
    Step 4: Wait two weeks to a month.
    Step 5: Let the specialist coach you through the first five minutes of driving, then enjoy your new maintenance-free electric vehicle.

  • Orlando

    Economic math is the main detriment to driving an electric vehicle. This is why lenr is so important. The current cost of electricity here in California is around $.33kwh. If you translate this into the required 100% no loss power required to run a vehicle, it comes out to around $15.00 per gallon of gas equivalent, again, at 100%, typical system losses for charging make the price about 25-50% higher. This is higher than even European fuel prices. In order for ev to be effective, electric rates need to fall below the current prevailing price of gasoline, to around $.08 per kwh. It’s not going to happen.

  • Rockyspoon

    Of course adoption of the electric automobile is slow. That attempt pre-dates adaption of the internal combusion engine to automobiles. And now you see which has more–the electric variety or the ICE variety.

    Anybody here seriously consider an electric automobile to be a “winner”?

    I don’t.

  • georgehants

    From the Guardian below.
    ——
    A complete non-scientist trying to argue that Dogma and majority opinion are to be believed.
    This person is actually arguing that because the minority are willing to follow Evidence and Facts to prove that Cold Fusion is a reality they should be ignored.
    The first thing science needs to learn is the difference between EVIDENCE and pathetic “expert opinion” palmed off as proof, of for example Global Warming.
    No rational person denies Global Warming as a possibility but where that falls in the Natural course of events is completely open to debate.
    Only Evidence counts and trying to find a pattern or cause in an almost chaotic record of the Earth’s climate is at present impossible.
    The number of possible effects to bring into play are many and only careful recording will lead eventually to perhaps a clearer picture.
    At this time there is no Evidence to counteract the possibility that we are on the edge of the next Ice-Age and man-made carbon dioxide is not holding back that disaster.
    —–
    What is and isn’t a scientific debate.
    The media need to understand the difference between a genuine scientific debate, and the fact that a very vocal minority can disagree with an overwhelming consensus of evidence.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/lost-worlds/2012/dec/04/dinosaurs-fossils

    • Peter_Roe

      The author’s main thesis that fringe scientific (or pseudoscientific) opinion can be made to seem more valid than it really is in media presentations is self evidently correct, although I would strongly argue his suggestion that those who question vaccine safety should be seen as belonging to this group.

      However, in his apparent certainty that ‘a thousand scientists can’t be wrong’, he misses the obvious fact that they can be – particularly when a ‘concensus’ like AGW or the ‘big bang’ theory is not sufficiently questioned for reasons of laziness, career risk or politics. Cold fusion is the most obvious case in point at the moment, but there are many other areas where concensus dogma trumps observation.

    • Alex

      Tesla Model S – Supercars
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhm2Yf2Zqzc

      • Peter_Roe

        Pretty car – shame it doesn’t come with a big wind-up handle like a Bayliss radio!

  • georgehants

    From Defkalion page.
    The following article appeared in “TO BHMA-Science” at December 2nd, 2012
    For the non-Greek speaking people, here bellow is a translated in English version of this article. In this translation, one more explanatory paragraph [Gold Fusion's Trojan Horse, in italics] was included, as was provided to us by the scientific journalist Tasos Kafandaris. This paragraph was omitted from the printed version due to space limitations.
    DGT
    http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4367

  • Gene Quong

    http://lenrnews.eu/?p=879

    That the words of realism found in himself, to the extent that I allow the knowledge engineer, when done for the sake of my experiment. A plasma generating device heats nanoskoni nickel at 500 degrees Celsius, leading to alterations in the structure of isotopes of nickel. Then, three imported catalysts in the reaction chamber, followed by separation of the diatomic hydrogen compressed individually by electroejaculation. In the next phase the monoatomic hydrogen Poland, by lengthening the path of the single electron – which entailed and emission of gamma radiation. Followed by the absorption of gamma radiation and convert it into heat.Since the start of this reaction and now need no further heating of nickel (as opposed to the method of Rossi) and ‘burning’ could take months. Sufficient introduction of argon gas to maintain the interior of the carrier at the correct pressure. Noteworthy was that the closing process of the system was instantly by simple closure of the hydrogen supply and the provision of required Rossi hours. The final reaction product was photons in the infrared range, i.e. heat.

    Hyperion may be suitable for steam powered cars since the warmup time is very short (minutes?)

    • artefact

      Another 3rd party speaks:

      Now, after several trials and critical third-party observation, “To Vima” visited it’s office and saw for itself the energy input is sextupled the exit!

      It looks so real!

      • Peter_Roe

        I find Xanthoulis’ answer to a question about (Big) Oil very revealing (slightly edited to clarify the English):

        “If we had started this process 10 years ago, we’d be dead now. But now, as the vice president of Exxon has said, (they) do not see us competitors. Very simply, as I said, in two to three years (they) will make us a bid that we can not refuse.” … “Through the Shell ‘GameChanger’ program, (they) seek collaboration with researchers of cold fusion. Obviously, (the oil industry) takes this far more seriously than our own leaders.”

        So Big Oil has ‘permitted’ cold fusion to emerge, as it intends to assume control of this new energy source and to profit from it, as a replacement for dwindling fossil energy reserves. No surprises there, but it’s interesting that Xanthoulis confirms that this is the case, and what would have happened (and probably did happen) to earlier CF researchers.

  • Stephen

    Electric cars are not really a new idea…

    http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/363057/350wm/V3100118-Camille_Jenatzy_s_electric_car,_1900-SPL.jpg

    in the early beginnings they were a serious competitor of internal combustions vehicles. They lost the race because gasoline is such a wonderful vector to store energy… it has a high energy density and energy/weight ratio, it’s liquid so you simply pump it down a stupid pipe (and refill you tank in few seconds, not hours), it’s relatively stable (except in movies… where it typically explodes, of course few seconds after the hero escapes :)… ). In the end, it might sound sad but it’s the wonder fuel. It’s not surprising that electric cars still have a hard time to conquer the market today.

    • Omega Z

      The Electric Car was partly done in by it’s own success.
      The Electric motor used as a starter replacing the Old hand crank.
      Many a concussions & broken arms avoided.

      Prior to that Charging Stations out numbered gas pumps. In the 70′s many speculated how battery technology may have advanced if Electric cars had become the Norm.

  • buffalo

    if the quenco device is launched(apparently any day nw)then say hello to electric vehicles 4ever

  • http://www.talesoftiberius.com Rick Stuart

    Without LENR electric cars are a joke. Assuming you could instantly convert all cars on the road right now to electric, where is the electricity going to come from? The coal plants we’re shutting down or the Nuclear plants we didn’t build? Get the Ecat working and everyone will switch over to electric cars. Till then, don’t bother.

    • Omega Z

      Batteries have major short comings.

      However, the new Lithium Air batteries look extremely good. Should be on the market in approximately 2 years. Less then half the price, half the weight & 500 miles plus to a charge. 100K plus lifetime. Only then will Electric cars be ready for market. Hopefully E-cats will be Generating electricity by then. Otherwise I see charging them costing more then Gas.

  • Miles

    From the information I received directly from the ecatcar.org people some time back, they estimated an LENR car in the next 10 years. 10 YEARS???

    Stage 1
    http://ecatcar.org/icar1.php

    Forget stage 1 – Gimme Stage 2
    http://ecatcar.org/icar2.php

    And 25 cells will have an energy capacity of more than 25 MWh and will be able to power an electric car for about 140’000 km or 87’000 miles. With this model, we imagine to have maintenance service every 5 to 10 years to simply replace the cells.

    If this type of LENR car was available TODAY – I’d buy one.

    • Stephen

      I am still waiting for the first LENR product on the market… I think they were predicted for one of two years in the past, if I am not mistaken.

      If LENR is real and viable, it’s great… it changes everything in ways I probably cannot even imagine. The problem is in that small “If” at the beginning of the sentence. Our hopes will not provide an answer to that “if”, neither will do that AR nor others’ tons of words and promises. Only facts will do that.

      • Jimr

        Well we can wait until after the first of the year for the report on the hot-ecat , but I suspect about that time Rossi will tell us they have given up work on the electric hotcat and will concentrate on the gas-cat.

        • Omega Z

          Jimr

          I believe in 1 of Rossi’s post he stated that both are under development at the same time. His partner wants both for comparison for electric production.

  • Bo Carneholm

    Rossi on swedish state tv cannel 2 next monday..hope for lenr.

    • artefact

      Cool! do you have a link?

      • Bo Carneholm

        Think you may see it by internet http://www.svt.se click for cannel 2..
        Probably in swedish mixed english.

    • Hampus

      December 10? What is the shows name?

      • Hampus

        Haha found it :) it airs the 17 December and will be partly about cold fusion. You will find it here when it’s available. http://www.svt.se/vetenskapens-varld/.

        Here is the info about he show.
        “Del 16 av 16: Vår sol är nu på väg in i en explosiv fas, något som kan slå hårt mot oss här nere på jorden. Stora strömavbrott, utslagen gps, inställda flyg kan bli resultatet. Aldrig tidigare har mänskligheten varit lika sårbar för solens utbrott som idag. Frågan är om vi är tillräckligt väl förberedda. Dessutom: Kall fusion ska kunna ersätta kärnkraften, hoppas nu även stora kraftbolag. Entusiasterna pratar om oändlig energi – kritikerna menar att det är en stor bluff. Programledare: Victoria Dyring.”

        English.

        “Part 16 of 16. Our sun is on its way to an explosive phase, something that can hit us hard down here on earth. Huge power outages, knocked out GPS, canceled flights might be the outcome. Never before have humankind been so fragile to the suns explosions as today. The question is are we prepared.
        Also. Cold fusion can replace nuclear fission, are now even big power companies hoping. Enthusiast are talking about Free energy, skeptics say its a huge bluff. Program host. Victoria Dyring.”

        This show usually comes in three parts, first part technological news. Second part a long documentary(usually from Nova or BBC), and in the end a small talk with a Swedish scientist about the documentary. Some times a extra small report in the end. I guess the part about old fusion is no more then 15 min.

        • freethinker

          Yes,

          I wonder, though, what would be the position of the science expert. That will be really interesting to see…

          In light of the Swedish political correctness in the state television, it will be a lacmus test of the the government point of view, or at least government funded science point of view.

          Note also there is a considerable focus on science in December due to the Nobel Prize festivities. There is a window of opportunity so to speak.

          I will wager no money on LENR being presented fairly, even though hope is said to be the last thing leaving man.

          Sorry …

          • Hampus

            Svt is not state owned. It has the right to collect money from the citizens of Sweden that own a tv(they do this by there own). The government have no controll over what they air.

            This is also how Swedish public radio works. All soo that we can enjoy entertainment that are free from commercial or political interests.

            • freethinker

              Well, be that as it may…

              All media is controlled somehow. Somewhere somebody take on the responsibility of what is aired, and we are all only human.

              Maybe it is my years that make me pessemistic about the fair treatment. So let us hope you are right, or atleast as I interpret your view, that it will be a show guided by journalistic curiousity and a desire to unearth Truth.

              I will still wager no money, though. :)

              • Peter_Roe

                I don’t believe that those who control the media do so with any sense of responsibility. It is merely the exercise of power in support of an agenda.

                Journalistic curiosity in these matters is career suicide at best. That’s how the control system works.

    • Robert

      This interview must have been recorded before he said that he would give no more interviews.

  • georgehants

    NASA, 35 years after Apollo put men on the Moon in under 10 years, manages to send a toy truck there.
    First they find shiny objects that they say fell of the truck.
    Next they find bits of plastic that they say fell off the truck.
    Now they find organics, but they say they may be from a birds nest that NASA engineers forgot to take out before launch.
    Once again a comedy of errors fit for Monty Python.
    ——-
    Curiosity rover finds organic compounds, but are they from Mars?
    Caltech’s John Grotzinger, the project scientist for Curiosity’s mission, seconded that view. “We just simply don’t know if they’re indigenous to Mars or not,” he said.
    http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/03/15645732-curiosity-rover-finds-organic-compounds-but-are-they-from-mars

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Carbonaceous asteroids contain lots of simple organic compounds. Such asteroids have of course fallen on Mars too, and unlikely on Earth where they burn in the oxygen-rich atmosphere and are decomposed by bacteria, on Mars they may stay intact for a long time. So if one finds some organic molecules on Mars, it’s not necessarily indigenous life or life brought from earth with the rover – it could also be asteroid or cometary material.

      • georgehants

        Pekka, now you have upset my moan as of course you are right, but the way they carry on is amazing.
        They should of announced before hand that their experiments would be unable to distinguish between organics of a natural origin and comets etc.
        In which case as Mars has been bombarded with asteroids for billions of years, assuming the estimates of origin are correct, then the experiment they are using is useless and should not have been sent.
        Only experiments able to quantify between the two possibilities are of any point as meteorite debris would be expected on any planet.

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          Yeah, but we study Mars basically because it’s there, not only to find life. Despite, it might in principle happen that to our question “is there life on Mars” Mars answers “could you rephrase your question”.

          • georgehants

            Now you are talking my language, do you mean that it is possible that Mars like everything else has consciousness.

            • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

              I only want to acknowledge that there might in principle be things which defy classification by concepts such as life or consciousness, because even when intended to be general our concepts and language nevertheless have rather anthropocentric roots.

              • georgehants

                Agreed, only a True scientist keeps an open mind.
                Until something better comes along I think we are stuck with the very imperfect code of, language that I agree in most cases is totally inadequate to communicate beyond the most simple concept.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Are you getting the Moon mixed up with Mars? Just a little more difficult to orbit and land vehicles on Mars.

      • georgehants

        Bernie, thank you, no I did not mix them up, but did not make clear in my first sentence I was now referring to Mars.
        Pekka thankfully I think realised my error and managed to reply anyway.
        More difficult on Mars yes, but are you not forgetting the 50+ years difference in technology etc between the first tentative three stage Apollo developed by a few brilliant Germans with local help carrying men and a full scale car to the Moon and a tiny little unmanned truck sent to Mars.
        The whole thing is a propaganda trick to try and put NASA in a good light and gain billions more in finance to enable them to fail to discover Cold Fusion etc.

        • Lunar

          You have your facts very wrong.

          The Apollo lunar rover weighed 463 lbs and was basically an unmanned truck with a range of 50 miles.

          Curiosity weighs 2000 lbs and is packed with scientific instruments. The science payload on Curiosity is light years beyond anything we had on Apollo.

          Even the Russian Lunokhod was smaller than Curiosity, and incredibly primitive with only five basic science instruments.

          Here’s a comparison for scale:

          Curiosity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Msl-arm.jpg

          LRV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NASA_Apollo_17_Lunar_Roving_Vehicle.jpg

          • georgehants

            Lunar, thank you, if you include the capsule and the men I think that may alter your weight figures.
            I am not arguing technicalities but an overall general point.
            Compared to the Lunar endevour the Mars jaunt is a breeze, they are not even returning the toy or samples to Earth.

  • Teemu

    That’s because electric vehicles have been subpar so far. Elon Musk and Tesla will change all that within five years – mark my words.

    • Mannstein

      Unless something is done about the severe shortcomings of the lithium ion battery I wouldn’t count on it. Cost, recharge time and range are the show stoppers.

  • artefact

    MFMP:

    Let the Data Flood Commence!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Piu-ARyevKY
    _ttp://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/167-data-flood

  • georgehants

    The experts in this World seem to be put there as a source of constant amusement each trying to prove they are the most incompetent.
    —–
    Discovery News
    BP Oil Highly Toxic When Mixed with Dispersants
    Analysis by Tim Wall
    Mon Dec 3, 2012
    The two million gallons of the chemical used to break up BP’s catastrophic oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico in 2010 may have made the oil more toxic to marine life than it already was. In a study published in the journal Environmental Pollution, the chemical dispersant called Corexit was mixed with oil taken from the BP spill. The chemical cocktail killed and reduced reproduction in rotifers, a tiny creature that forms part of the base of the Gulf food chain.
    http://news.discovery.com/earth/bp-oil-dispersants-more-toxic-121203.html#mkcpgn=rssnws1

    • Peter_Roe

      Yes, that was known when they dumped detergents on the slick from the Exxon Valdez in 1989. Stupidity and an utter inability to learn from past mistakes seems to be endemic among highly paid ‘decision takers’ in all walks of life – almost a qualification for the job.

  • georgehants

    From Defkalion page.
    Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:12 pm
    Greetings from Vancouver
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xMz2SnSWS4

    • Robert

      I guess they like their new home. It’s strange to me why Defkalion posted this video. Are they saying…”Hey don’t forget about us”? They haven’t posted any news on their website in a very long time and now this. I’m curious. Why?

      • artefact
        • Omega Z

          artfact

          I read this a couple days ago. I found this part interesting among others.

          “And the oil?” Asked. “We will not fight? ‘.’s Answer Mr. Xanthoulis was:” If we had started this process 10 years ago, we’d be dead now. But now, as he himself said vice president of Exxon, do not see us competing. Very simply, as I said, in two to three years will make us a bid that we can not deny.”

          Also Mentioned was going back to Greece in about 3 years once their production prototype is finished. There was mention of Government support & funding that didn’t happen being part of the reason for leaving.

          • Omega Z

            The Exxon offer fits what I’ve said before. They wont stop it. They’ll just Buy in. Product is product. Profits is all that matter to Exxon. That’s their Job.

            • Peter_Roe

              Sorry Omega – I posted more or less the same quote and observations before reading yours!

              • Omega Z

                No problem

                Better posted twice then not at all.

  • zvibenyosef

    What about Steam cars? I saw an episode of Huell Howser show California Gold where he visited an Automobile museum. They had a steam car that was built by Howard Hughes. The ecat could flash heat water to steam, which could power the wheels directly, or charge a battery.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Google “Cyclone” they are getting close to a steam engine powered vehicle speed record.

  • georgehants

    Fossil fuel subsidies in focus at climate talks
    By KARL RITTER, Associated Press
    Monday, December 3, 2012
    “We need to stop funding the problem, and start funding the solution,” said Steve Kretzmann, of Oil Change International, an advocacy group for clean energy.
    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/science/article/Fossil-fuel-subsidies-in-focus-at-climate-talks-4086739.php#ixzz2E11UzA17

  • Daniel Steward

    The two basic problems facing todays EV are 1) battery technology hasn’t changed in any fundamental way for 200 years and 2) the originating power source is still burning some sort of carbon fuel. If you factor in the amount of fuel burned at the power plant to produce the electricity to move an EV a mile, EV’s have a horrible carbon footprint. On top of that the batteries are horribly expensive, have a short lifetime and don’t really hold much charge. Any sort of hydrogen based tech has the same primary power source problem as the EV so hydrogen isn’t any better. That’s why something like LENR has the potential to completely change everything because it removes carbon from the picture.

  • kwhilborn

    It might help you understand if you looked at the prices of Electric cars. Most are hybrids that are only for the rich.

  • clovis

    Hi, Guys.
    The crack of a set of fine tuned headers on an ic engine, still gives me cold chill’s.and makes me want climb in an old round rounder, and gas on it,–SMILE but I know that it does not make all feel that way.
    And some just want to get to work on time and as cheap as possible. I like the match between lenr and the electric cars of the further.

  • Peter_Roe

    Not really on topic, but an illustration of how a new technology that is likely to change the way we do things (in a modest way) can come out of the blue. This new type of light ‘bulb’ will allow us to escape the consequences of the stupidity of politicians who have tried to force us to use expensive mercury-filled, flickering, short-lived and dim ‘compact fluorescent’ bulbs instead of cheap and non-toxic tungsten filament bulbs.

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/142086-new-plastic-light-bulbs-are-cheap-bright-shatterproof-and-flicker-free

    Nanotechnology may well produce an efficient TEG or even new types of LENR reactor in the same unexpected way, at any time.

    • Ged

      That is impressive. I really hope to see those on market next year, as I would definitely replace my lights with that.

      • Peter_Roe

        The only ‘problem’ seems to be that the bulbs (or tubes or sheets) could last virtually forever. That might be enough for some large corporation to buy up the patents then sit on them indefinitely – or to find a way to shorten the life of such lamps to a few thousand hours. Or am I being overly cynical?

        • timycelyn

          Peter! You, cynical? Never….

          Actually, factors would be:

          1. how long have the patents got to go – probably around 16 years and then it’s a free for all and

          2. Who will pay more for them? Company A which wishes to muzzle or water down the tech because they are of the light bulb mindset (probably in that business)or company B that have more of a electronic goods type mindset, sort of obsolescence through fashion etc driving a slow replacement cycle, but charging much more for it.

          • Peter_Roe

            Mmm, good points. We’ll know in a year I suppose.

            My daughter told me recently that if Santa was real, I’d want to know what his real motives were. She’s probably right.

            • timycelyn

              That’s a good one! Must try and remember it… :-)

        • timycelyn

          Peter, tried to reply but hit the filter. Sigh…..

        • Ged

          That crossed my mind as well, Peter. Hopefully that won’t happen.

        • HeS
          • Peter_Roe

            Here’s one from 2007 that seems to have disappeared without trace. That may be because it’s both complicated and only 50% efficient, but that’s a very boring reason for its non-appearance.

          • Peter_Roe
            • Omega Z

              Peter

              Great find on the polymer bulb. Hope it makes it to market. They say they have a backer.

              As for the Light bulb conspiracy. The bulb from early on went thru a lot of changes. Part of those changes are to blame. However these could have been overcome.

              But the planned Obsolescence is a Fact. A throw away society. This is actually a major obstacle to people getting ahead in life. By the time you pay for something it’s broken or Obsolete. All discretionary income is spent on replacing what you have. Can’t get ahead.

              Microsoft actually embeds code in it’s software to make it less functional over time. All done in collusion with others. Such as a sight no longer allows access until you upgrade you Browser or other software. All intentional.

              Recently read where many Corporations are tiring of this & are looking at developing a version of Linux to bring Microsoft’s Raine to an End. Hardware Manufactures tire of the additional expense involved in their developments & being held hostage. We can Hope.

    • georgehants

      I feel very annoyed that other people are finding interesting posts and the best I can find is —-
      Palace says Prince William, Duchess of Cambridge expecting a baby.

      • Peter_Roe

        What! You didn’t listen to the ‘Today’ program on BBC Radio 4 this morning, George?

        • georgehants

          BBC4, to up-brow for me Peter, I have to wait for reports on the business news.

          • Peter_Roe

            This morning they’re talking about Desperate Dan and the Dandy, and some woman called Kate getting pregnant, so maybe not so highbrow these days!

  • Renzo

    We need a battery technology that:
    -has high density
    -is made with cheap material without rare elements
    -is non polluting
    -is non hazardous
    -has a long life
    Once these criteria are met the electric car will become popular, at the present it is only suitable for specific cases

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      We need a battery technology that:
      -has high density
      -is made with cheap material without rare elements
      -is non polluting
      -is non hazardous
      -has a long life
      Once these criteria are met the electric car will become popular…

      Once the flu cures cancer, it will become popular.

      • Ged

        Actually, the common cold (adenovirus) is the currently used virus vector for attacking cancer cells…

        • Omega Z

          Ged

          NEW
          Baking Soda. “Sodium Bicarbonate” the new cancer cure.
          Good for the People. Bad for Big Pharma.

          Seems our bodies are just like soil or water. Requires a certain PH balance.

          Just ingesting it doesn’t work. The body overcomes it. But by intravenous feed in conjunction with ingesting it they can change the bodies PH & kill cancer. Preliminary studies are extremely effective. They are now preparing for large scale tests. The Article included many different types of Cancer. Not just 1. Also Results are visible within weeks.

          • Omega Z

            Actually Ged it’s not really new. Just the Report I recently read was. They’ve just made new advances with this treatment.
            Now I can’t find it.

          • Peter_Roe

            One common ‘recipe’ involves boiling bicarbonate and maple syrup together. Apparently the bicarbonate binds to the sugar molecules, which then enter the high-sugar-requiring cancer cells, where it poisons them.

            I believe lithium carbonate is used for the same purpose.

    • Invy

      IBM is working on a Lithium-Air battery that is predicted to fit that bill. They recently did a simulation that confirmed the possibility, and estimated about 10 years to a viable physical model, and maybe 15 till productions.

      Of course, when a researcher says 10 years, add at least 20 more till production.

      • Omega Z

        Invy

        I read a report not long ago that a Company was setting up for manufacture of these batteries. They projected about 2 years.
        Note that IBM is just 1 of several Companies working on this.

        On the Other hand, even if production starts in 2 years, It could be quite sometime before they become real available. The Car Manufactures will take up all production for quite awhile.

        And there can always be technical delays.

  • Chris

    I’d love to have an electric car, but my field based job where I could be asked to drive across the country (UK) tomorrow and back again all in one day basically precludes that entire area of the market from me. Until Super-Capacitors are invented. Or Batteries improve both recharge and life it will never be able to completely replace the current vehicle for those like me. For 90% of drivers, it’s actually a good deal. But the up front cost is far too much for the people it would benefit most, right now.

  • Dan Woodward

    Electric cars can’t compete with Hybrid cars (todays definition). What is wrong with electric drive plus an on-board charger? I believe the LENR driving a generator of ANY type can be used just to charge batteries. If steam is used, it can be a closed system that condenses to a small water tank.

  • wolfgang gaerber

    A _CAR_ is more than transportation.
    Its about wasting ressources.
    Takes 1500kg min with typical payload 100kg (western), emits 60% of used energy to heat the environment for directions <30miles which could be faster done using public transport.
    A commuter vehicle <500kg powered with electricity is a complete different thing. Once tooling and design pays off – that would be quite an opportunity.
    But trying to substitute a _CAR_ will never work with the actual technology.

    • Peter_Roe

      Cars are about a lot more than transportation, as you say. They have become portable private spaces, symbols of personal choice, status, individuality and several other things (not necessarily things you might want to project!), powered wheelbarrows for transporting all manner of items (such as children!), and even treasured possessions.

      Other than when commuting by train, most drivers could only be forced onto public transport at gunpoint, and if you tried to take their cars away you would trigger revolution.

      It’s easier to go with the flow by ‘upgrading’ cars to LENR, using relatively primitive (but cheap and effective) technology such as steam power, than to attempt to try to introduce a societal shift for reasons not shared by your market, or to force a change to a less usable technology for politico-social reasons (as demonstrated by the lack of enthusiasm for electric and hybrid cars).

      Yes, 60% or more of total heat output will be wasted, but if that power is non-polluting and inexpensive, you are still infinitely better off than if you were using petrol and diesel.

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        I believe that the future of transportation is not cars and roads, but vacuum tube trains whose “cars” are of the size of family cars and are routed individually like Internet packets. The energy consumption of a vacuum train network is in principle zero because power used for acceleration is recovered when braking as there are no frictional losses. Also there is no wear and no noise. The vacuum tube network would be built mostly underground. The speed of the system would be limited only by the acceleration experienced by the passengers so that no other mode of transportation could be faster even in theory.

        There is an existing project in that direction in Switzerland called Swissmetro, although it doesn’t use individual routing but traditional long trains.

        • georgehants

          Pekka, that is part of our World without money plan, another great benefit is that all wildlife would be left in peace as these “cars” would travel on simple supports above the ground allowing free passage below.

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            Agree about wildlife. Highways are unsustainable in the long run for many reasons. In Finland one reason is that they salt them in wintertime. Sooner or later that practice will make groundwater salty.

            When people are used to vacuumtube speed (e.g., 300 km in 10 minutes), convenience and safety, there is no going back. It is a superior mode of transportation in all the important parameters. Only the infrastructure initial cost is high, but building surface roads is nearly as expensive too, and in the long run a sustainable practice is anyway limitlessly cheaper than an unsustainable one.

            • georgehants

              Two and a half million unemployed in the U.K. just to keep crazy capitalism going.
              There are enough to produce and fit solar panels to every roof and build the above road ways, if the technology is advanced enough to be practical.
              There would still be another 5-10 million unemployed if all finance where removed.

              • Bernie Koppenhofer

                Unemployment is the result of productivity, employment and wages must be tied to productivity gains.

                • georgehants

                  Bernie, you are correct — “Unemployment is the result of productivity”
                  Logically, If production is producing sufficient, then automatically everybody else is unemployed.
                  They can move on to help others, shorter working life, or leisure.
                  Capitalism demands that they are put into pointless made up jobs or waste away on benefits.

      • wolfgang gaerber

        The point is that its a lot about marketing.
        A “smart” is somewhat a car, but primary, its a “smart”.
        So to say – if there would be a strong idea, name, marketing – it could be possible to implement new means of transportation in the minds.
        A “Tesla” – and I mean the roadster is somewhat cool and accepted.
        But trying to replicated the “CAR” experience is somewhat no-go.

    • Dickyaesta

      New thermoelectric material from dirt and moreover ‘dirt’cheap http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2012/energy-savings-easy-as-dirt-heat-pressure/
      might help perhaps ;)

  • Peter_Roe

    Electrical storage will eventually catch up with a car’s need for power and swift universal recharging, most likely through either powerful capacitors as discussed by Charles, or perhaps using room-temperature superconducting storage rings. Similarly, high efficiency direct current conversion from LENR may become possible in time.

    However these technologies may be a decade or longer away. In the meantime flash-steam boilers and on-board condensers combined with the most efficient steam engines available could easily be used to power cars that would be in every way superior to IC – non-polluting, lighter, faster, more reliable and easy to fix anyway, more powerful, quieter and with far greater ranges than anything currently available.

    No new technology (other than hot cat reactors) would be required, and power units could be integrated with most current designs of car with little difficulty. The only problems likely would be political resistance from governments fearing loss of fossil fuel revenues, and establishing safe designs for the reactor and flash boiler – a process that would most likely be interfered with by many parties for their own ends.

    Edit: Whoops – moderated for some reason!

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Superconducting storage rings store energy as magnetic pressure. In that sense they are similar than storing energy in springs or compressed air. It looks to me that the energy density achievable by those methods is fundamentally limited by material strength even if room temperature superconductivity is achieved.

      • Peter_Roe

        So that’s chemical, electrostatic and magnetic storage out, at least for the time being. But speaking for myself I prefer the idea of steam cars anyway (and steam trucks, buses, railway locomotives, boats/ships etc.).

  • captain kirk

    It’s all about cost and convenience…..when you have a good range (250 miles) and a fast recharge, and have the cost nearly the same as a ICE then they will be popular…… Progress is slow… I’ve been following battery technology for over 5 years (including EESTOR many years behind schedule) I’m always reading about technological breakthroughs at the research level but they always seem not to materialize… the envia battery looks interesting perhaps a serial hybrid with a 100 mile battery and a wave disc motor (if developed) or perhaps we’ll get lucky and Blacklight Power’s CIHT cell gets developed or the 1 in a million (or billion) chance that Inteligenty is able to pull off the impossible….

  • Charles

    Forty years ago I was chief engineer for one of the world’s foremost DC motor manufacturers and we had an exceptionally creative and inventive engineer on the staff. He designed marvelous drive systems for AC and DC motors. He was years ahead of the industry. Either the DC or AC motors can be operated as “brushless”, i.e. no commutator to wear out or arc over and all switching done by solid state devices. The motors can be manufactured in a so-called “pancake” style that could be shaped just as a disc brake and serve as drive and brakes.

    I have been sorely disappointed at the poor progress made in the development of electric cars. It is obvious that batteries are the main retardant since they limit mileage and take a long time to charge. I follow this field closely and am not enthused by the potential for great batteries since they are thus far chemical.

    Super capacitors hold the greatest promise for replacing batteries and the most promising line is now being developed by EESTOR but they are years behind their initial projections and are very zip-lipped about progress. Super capacitors can be charged and discharged at essentially any rate one chooses up to parts of a second.

    Super-capacitors and LENR both hold great promises and super-cs could certainly smooth out the electrical charge created by LENR.

    My ideal system would be pancake motors with solid state switching and a main power driver of LENR created electricity smoothed and stored by super-capacitors. At some future date, charging stations on the road would not even be required.

    • tappanjack

      Hi Charles: Was that company headquartered in Ohio? I think we may have worked together.

      • Charles

        Sorry tappanjack,

        It was in Radford, VA.

  • http://blog.lib.umn.edu/daigl024/discussions/ gdaigle

    A vehicle powered by LENR is a wholly different paradigm than that for a standard electric car. The model for most EVs is that of a limited storage vessel for electrical power used in the operation of the vehicle. The drive train, accessories and heating/cooling for passengers depletes the power stored, much as it does when emptying the fuel tank of a fossil fuel vehicle.

    A LENR EV has the potential to produce excess power, not just store it or use it for the operation of the vehicle. This excess power generation capacity follows users to where they live, work, play and shop. As users commute to downtown, drivers of LENR EVs bring with them their excess generator capacity. This is like a V2G (vehicle-to-grid) connections on steroids. When you park your vehicle at local events and plug in, the excess power can feed into a hyperlocal grid to help power the event itself. At home a plugged in LENR EV may power appliances, computers and machinery at work, and outdoor illumination for the local softball field’s lighting. Not only do the vehicles roam, but so does their DER (distributed energy resource) power generation capacity as Smart Grids go online.

    There is a set of standards for vehicle manufacturers being established by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) that will come into play. These specifications address connections and communications for PHeVs to the SmartGrid. Most of these specifications deal with load balancing charging vehicles, but a few such as SAE J2836 also deal with transferring reserves from vehicles to the grid. Once direct thermal to electrical conversion improves, car manufacturers may turn to LENR EVs.

    For me, living in Minnesota, it would be enough to know that my EV would not run out of heat even if the vehicle becomes stuck in the snow!